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00:00Headed back home, and then it's that scrimmage tomorrow night at the New Place.
00:04Sal Capaccio with us now on the West Her Hotline.
00:08Did you have any nice days at Fisher?
00:10One? Two?
00:12I think two really nice ones.
00:13Today was very nice until the very end.
00:16So three out of the seven practices were not terrible.
00:21Kind of weird, though.
00:22What a streak we're on here.
00:24Sal, what was the, for you, the top story or the top two or three stories, if you want,
00:29of this training camp?
00:33Well, I think organizationally, the change in head coach, but that wears off right away.
00:36So let's just go to the stuff that, you know, on the field.
00:39I think DJ Moore became the top story right away.
00:41DJ Moore was sensational.
00:43If you could pick an MVP of camp, it was probably him.
00:46He was very good from start to finish.
00:48He made plays.
00:48That Willie Mays catch you guys have seen over and over again.
00:52Talked about it today again.
00:53Like Joe Brady talked about it today again because he was asked about it.
00:56And the connection from him to Josh Allen right away just looked really, really good.
01:02Number two, I think the rookie class, guys.
01:04Rookie class looks, it's coming along at camp quicker than many rookie classes have.
01:09And I think partly that is because for years there was a lot of, well, Sean McDermott doesn't
01:16play rookies, which I don't think is true.
01:18If you go back and look, I mean, Osiris Torrance played every snap his rookie year.
01:20Rookies do play.
01:21But certainly with Sean McDermott came a, you have to earn that trust from him to play
01:27him unless you got to, you know, we got to throw you in right away because we have nobody
01:30else.
01:31That's not been the case with this group.
01:32They are, they are drinking from the fire hose, so to speak.
01:35Like they're out there and they're playing.
01:38And I think by and large, they look good and they're look, they look like they're going
01:41to contribute as a group more than what we've seen from a rookie class in a while.
01:46And I think most importantly, the other last storyline would be, looks like they got out
01:51healthy.
01:52I mean, today, Max Harrison did sit, but it was precautionary.
01:55They said, yeah, he'll be fine.
01:56He's just wanted to rest him for a day.
01:58But they got out of this camp healthy, which is really good news.
02:02Who of the rookies do you think, I mean, Caleb Elamzor is probably the easy answer here.
02:09I feel like he got the most attention of the rookies.
02:13As you know, I've been intrigued by Igbenosin and you mentioned Harrison there and like
02:19what, what kind of battle, if there would even be a battle there.
02:23But among, among those rookies who really stood out, it feels, I feel like I didn't hear a
02:28lot about Skylar Bell.
02:30I'll just add that in as camp went on.
02:33Like there just wasn't a lot of, mostly it was, he's out here working hard after practice,
02:37but like in practice, I don't feel like I saw a lot of 13 flash in my face.
02:44Yeah.
02:44And that's partly because of opportunity or lack thereof, right?
02:47Bulldog.
02:47I mean, the numbers at wide receiver and the numbers ahead of him, you know, Mike, I just
02:52did a, uh, I just did a spot for our lads and Greg De Palma was on and he's like,
02:57oh,
02:58I just realized you work at the station.
02:59The guy who I was in my fantasy league, Mike shop.
03:02I'm like, oh yeah, I'm Mike shop.
03:04Anyway, what are the odds that I would be in a league with a person you would come.
03:07And that's what I said to him.
03:08That's what I said to him.
03:09Uh, anyway, the point was he asked me the same question.
03:11He's like, you know, what about Skylar bell?
03:13And, and I said, same thing I'm gonna say to you guys, which is, you know, he's blocked
03:16by four guys.
03:17Basically it's hard for him.
03:18Now, if Keon Coleman does not, you know, do what he's supposed to do, uh, you know,
03:23and Skylar bell, there's an opening.
03:25Sure.
03:25That could happen.
03:26I'll tell you this.
03:27I wrote today about Joshua Palmer.
03:29I think Joshua Palmer's had a great camp.
03:30Like he looked really good in the last few days, especially he's making contested catches.
03:35Like this isn't very nice to see a very good development with Josh Palmer out there.
03:39So to answer your question about Skylar bell, I think it's really just the opportunity
03:42bulldog and he's out there.
03:44He's, he looks fine.
03:45There's nothing great to report.
03:46There's nothing terrible to report.
03:48Um, he does work hard after practice.
03:49That's right.
03:50And I think that he knows that his opportunity will come knocking.
03:52The question is, when will that be the other rookies?
03:55You know, I think Davidson, I've been in a couple of plays, but he's been beaten here
04:02and there.
04:02And I just think Max Harrison's holding them off anyway.
04:04I know a lot's been made about, you know, Keon Coleman's beaten Max Harrison in one-on-one.
04:08He's, you know, it's a, it's a tough battle for him when you're just going one-on-one
04:10and running four yards and you have, you know, a foot, it seems like a foot, you know, height
04:15advantage.
04:15And Max, Max Harrison to me has had actually a pretty good camp overall.
04:19I think one-on-ones against Keon has been, have been tough for him.
04:21That's a tough matchup.
04:22I talk with him about it.
04:23He said he likes going against the bigger receivers that, you know, it's not something he, he,
04:27he sees all the time, a guy bigger like that, the S a go against.
04:30So, um, but Davis Nygbinosin hasn't been threatening him.
04:33I would say that from there.
04:34I think TJ Parker, I said this the first few days, way faster than I thought way better
04:42athleticism footwork than I thought.
04:44Not from, not from like a bend and pass rush standpoint.
04:49Sure.
04:49That stuff can be part of it.
04:50I mean, change of direction.
04:52He can get from point A to point B.
04:54He's going to be able to run the field.
04:55He's gonna be able to do anything you want sideline to sideline better than I thought
04:58he would be.
04:59And even today you saw him run with a running back today.
05:02Someone pointed out to me like, look at TJ Parker.
05:03I'm like, I know I just, every time I look up, I see him.
05:06We've talked about Caleb Elamzor.
05:07Jalen Kilgore has been impressive.
05:10He's making plays.
05:11He's mainly in the box.
05:12And the last guy I'm going to say that started to show up today because Dion Dawkins took a
05:17vet rest day was Jude Bowery.
05:19Jude Bowery is in a battle for the swing tackle job.
05:22I mean, no, that, that's a guy that Tylon Grable has had that job.
05:25They let go of Ryan Vandermark.
05:27He went to Minnesota.
05:28That's Tylon Grable.
05:29The last three years, like he could get beaten out here two years, I guess, by Jude Bowery.
05:33That's going to be an interesting battle.
05:35I think I'm fine with that.
05:36Greg mispronouncing my name.
05:38Cause I, I hate that league that, that, that, I hate my team.
05:42I'm sorry.
05:42That was a, you know, it happened.
05:43That was a, a super flex startup and I went Richardson, Tua, Watson before, before a lot
05:52of the, like Watson was sort of like a bargain price and like, this'll go well.
05:57And now I'm sitting here with Tua, Watson and Tyler Shuck just trying to not drown.
06:02So, um, no, no offense taken on that one.
06:05Cause this league, I don't really like thinking about too much.
06:07That seems to be our lads league.
06:09Yeah.
06:09Not my, not my best work.
06:12How about backup quarterbacks, Al?
06:14What do you see in there?
06:15You you've talked, I mean, we know Kyle Allen has a good relationship, a great relationship
06:19with, with Josh Allen.
06:20Um, but you've talked a lot about how much the team values Buschel, um, and, and just
06:26his, you know, the head he has on his shoulders and then how helpful he might be.
06:31Um, is, is that a battle?
06:33Is that going to come down to maybe like what happens in these preseason games?
06:37I think so.
06:38Yeah.
06:38I think it's going to be whoever outperforms the other in preseason games.
06:42I mean, you know, Shane Buschel is, isn't here just to be a practice squad guy.
06:45I know that's been, you know, his career so far, but you know, he's trying to find a job.
06:49He wants to be on the active roster.
06:51Kyle Allen is, has been on the inactive, on active rosters.
06:54He started in the NFL.
06:55Um, I, I don't, I think Kyle Allen has struggled.
06:58He has thrown too many interceptions, but you're also seeing a defense out there, whether it's
07:02the first team or the second team that we know, you know, they're throwing a lot of
07:05different looks at these guys.
07:07Haven't seen a lot of them.
07:08It's not like a normal, like, you know, Sean McDermott practice after six, seven years
07:12where you're kind of used to seeing all of that.
07:14So, you know, they're trying to throw different stuff at him.
07:16And I think he's thrown a couple of too many picks.
07:19Shane Buschel threw one today.
07:21Um, he also threw an amazing pass, or at least it was an amazing catch by Steven Gosnell and
07:27Buschel put it on the money.
07:28I think Steven, I think he has Shane Buschel, excuse me, has a legitimate shot to be Kyle
07:33Allen, but it's gotta, it's gotta happen in the games.
07:35Like he, he played really well in that Tampa game last year.
07:38Remember that guys?
07:39Like he played really well and the bills ultimately didn't keep them, but he did well enough for himself
07:45to put himself on the radar.
07:46And at the end of the year, the chiefs brought him back to their organization to give him
07:49a paycheck for a game to be on the, uh, to be the starter.
07:52Buschel is the son of the ball player, right?
07:55Uh, Steve Buschel, that's his father.
07:57That's his father.
07:58That's correct.
07:58The big news is probably this Osiris Torrance contract extension.
08:02You know, Sal, like Bulldog had a lot to say about just sort of it being another.
08:08What, what grade B grade was that fair player that the bills B plus?
08:13If that's not stretching it.
08:15Yeah.
08:15I don't dislike the player, Sal, but it's another second contract that's, you know, of
08:21course it's not top of market, but it's, I feel like Brandon Bean's signature move is
08:27this sort of contract for a player that I don't know.
08:31I might sooner say, why don't I just go all the way and get cheaper and try to spend the
08:36money somewhere else?
08:37Um, because I feel like we've seen this with a number of draft picks that I, you know,
08:43I, I think I understand wanting to keep the line together and all that.
08:46I just, I don't know, man, I didn't, I didn't love it.
08:48I just feel like there's a lot of pretty good players that have gotten second contracts on
08:53this team and not enough great players getting paid top of market other than Josh.
08:57Josh, I understand, um, draft develop and sign is every team's philosophy.
09:04That's what they would love to do.
09:05Everybody tells you that the bills really try to lean into that.
09:07They really try to want to do that.
09:10There have been times over the years where they've paid guys and you say, Hmm, not really
09:13sure.
09:14We're looking at that now.
09:15Is that, is that Terrell Bernard next?
09:16You know, is that they pay him.
09:17And now you're wondering where that fits.
09:19You also have guys like Christian Benford, who look like a great value as the 25th overall,
09:24you know, uh, James cook is making half the money now as some of these running backs.
09:28And, you know, so, so, so I think there's, there's some give and take there.
09:31Right.
09:32And as far as this player's concerned, I think this comes down to really one other player
09:36and that's Josh Allen to what you, to your point.
09:40Absolutely.
09:41Bulldog.
09:41You could do that.
09:42I think the bills philosophy is we have a guy we know is good.
09:46We like them.
09:47He works well with the guys in front of them.
09:48And we have Josh Allen and we're not risking him getting hurt.
09:51And we're going to keep doing this with these guys because if we go with someone else and
09:56we let him go and go, we don't know what we're going to get.
09:59And we cannot afford that with Josh Allen behind them.
10:01I get it.
10:02It's a lot of money.
10:02I'd also say the guy that was drafted also in the second round, about 20 picks before
10:08him just signed for 96 million last week, Matthew Bergeron out of Syracuse.
10:13So yes, it's a lot of money.
10:15You could definitely just, you could definitely make the argument.
10:17You could spend it somewhere else.
10:20Everybody in the organization, the main theme is we want to keep Josh Allen healthy.
10:25We can keep this offensive line together as long as possible.
10:28We like this offensive line and that will help us keep Josh Allen healthy.
10:32They now have four of their five offensive linemen starters under contract for multiple
10:37years.
10:38Deion Dawkins, Connor McGovern, Osiris Torrance, and Spencer Brown.
10:41Left guard is the one spot they don't right now.
10:43And, and Brown is a good value.
10:45And he, even McGovern's guy, I made a point about McGovern last hour, like his cap number
10:50the next two years is extremely manageable.
10:53Um, so maybe they, maybe they find their way out from under when it gets to like 17 million
10:58or whatever it will get to in 27.
11:01So, you know, there's a limit to how far I can go and how loud I want to yell.
11:06Um, but I just, I feel like for all the change that they've wanted to represent, it's just
11:12another page in the, this is how we do it.
11:16And I don't know that they haven't gotten the result they've wanted yet.
11:20And so I just wonder about continuing to do that.
11:23I mean, it, that could be hasty in the form of, you know, this example with, with Torrance
11:29is I think, you know, he's, he's fine.
11:31I think he's, he's helped them.
11:32I just, I don't know.
11:34I just, I didn't need, I didn't need, I could have just let them play it out and go find
11:38another Osiris Torrance in the draft next year.
11:40I mean, easy to say, but I mean, do that.
11:43I totally understand.
11:44I was surprised this happened.
11:45I thought they would do that.
11:47You got, you play back the tapes from two months ago, asking me about Osiris Torrance and going
11:51into his final year.
11:52And I'm sure I told you, I think they'll let it play it out.
11:55Like, I'm surprised.
11:55I did not think that he would get paid like this.
11:57I thought they would do exactly what you're saying, which is, Hey, you know what?
12:00Because here, here's why to me, it's not left tackle, it's not even right tackle or even
12:05center where the communication, it's not the premium offensive line position.
12:08It's a guard.
12:09Now I will say over the last few years, guards, the guard market has gotten a lot bigger.
12:14Like teams are paying guards way more now than they have before.
12:18And I think a lot of that is simply because of the style of offense, the, the zone reads
12:23that teams were in the mid zone and stuff like that.
12:25Like you just need smart guys, tough guys.
12:28And it's just, you know, something that's kind of happened in evolution of football a
12:31little bit here.
12:32I thought they would do it and play it just the way you said, and, you know, let him
12:37basically play this out and see where it goes.
12:39But the theme today was we want to keep the band together as long as we have number 17,
12:44because we know this guy, I mean, the guy is available, right?
12:48He has played, knock on wood.
12:49He's played every snap his rookie year.
12:51And as you guys know, that's a very, very big deal to the Buffalo bills.
12:55I think the, quickly, the Cedric Van Pran Granger point is the best point where you have drafted
13:02somebody that's not literally his understudy, but somebody that, you know, you're developing.
13:09And then when it's time for Conor McGovern to leave, you should be ready to have him slide
13:13in.
13:14And instead they had to pay Conor McGovern or this.
13:16You're right.
13:18So, you know, that, you know, and it's frustrating is all.
13:24Like, Sal, I kind of wonder if Van Pran Granger, after two years in the system, wasn't ready
13:30to be elevated to being a starter, why is he even still here?
13:33Like, go get another guy to develop that can maybe help you when you don't want to have
13:38to pay a free agent contract to your center to keep him because you're so worried about
13:42it.
13:42I mean, that's, I think, a part of this.
13:45And so it, it's just, it's frustrating on many levels, I guess, for me.
13:51I still wonder if like Van Pran Granger would be a trade candidate because of exactly what
13:57you said.
13:57Like, there's no, he's blocked.
13:59There's no way he's starting on this team.
14:00Right.
14:01I mean, they, they, they made that decision now McGovern and they brought in Lloyd Cushenberry,
14:05by the way, to, you know, be a backup center and compete.
14:09So I wonder what that means for his future.
14:11I think a lot of this comes down to not just the economics, but the actual individual and
14:16the player, which is maybe Cedric Van Pran Granger just hasn't developed the way they
14:20wanted.
14:20Right.
14:21And they just, they just didn't want to do that.
14:22Hey, he hasn't.
14:23So, Hey, he's going to the third year of a rookie contract.
14:26There's no reason not to keep him around, let him keep developing, but it just wasn't
14:30there.
14:30They didn't trust it.
14:31They didn't want to do that.
14:31Josh Allen can't just go and, and, and, and have, you know, a center that they're not
14:36trusting of.
14:36And then you have a Cyrus Torrance and maybe, you know, what, what kind of player they think
14:41he is.
14:41And, you know, teams, a lot of times overvalue their own players.
14:43It's not like he's been to pro bowls and all pro or anything like that, but I think
14:47they believe he's a very, very high level player for them.
14:50With Sal Capaccio.
14:52So what are your thoughts about tomorrow, both from a logistical standpoint, going in
14:57there for an event for the first time, you and thousands of others, and then, you know,
15:02what the scrimmage is really about.
15:06So I don't call it a scrimmage.
15:08I call it an open practice because I think that's more of what it is.
15:11And I say that because a lot of people do, and I don't know how much they will scrimmage,
15:15Mike.
15:15Like there used to be scrimmages.
15:17Like there used to be a scrimmage.
15:19Like they were offense against defense.
15:20We've seen that.
15:21And if you bring like another team in, that's a scrimmage.
15:24I remember one year they actually kept score between the offense and defense.
15:28I mean, the defense made a sack.
15:29They got three points or something.
15:30Right.
15:30So they had, they had score.
15:32So just so everybody knows, like, I don't know how much scrimmaging they're going to
15:35do.
15:36They will have a practice though.
15:37They're going to have an open practice.
15:39They may, they're going to do live periods, you know, offense against defense.
15:42They're going to be tackling to the ground.
15:43I'm not sure.
15:44The reason I'm bringing all this up as questions is I don't know.
15:47It's a new coach.
15:47And what does he want to do?
15:49Uh, you know, Sean McDermott did a few different things over the years.
15:52Joe Brady, you know, I know from today him talking, what they want to get out of it is
15:57like game situational type of stuff with the headsets, the operation, the sidelines.
16:01So from that standpoint, you're probably looking at a little more live period.
16:04You're probably looking at a little more of actual scrimmaging type of stuff, doing
16:08two minute drill, doing red zone drill, getting that communication piece down.
16:11That is what I think a lot of what you're going to see tomorrow.
16:13A lot of what you're going to see might be different than if you had been inside this stadium
16:17for the last three or four years, which is we want to know how the operation works inside
16:21a place we've never been.
16:22He talked about knowing where the play clocks are, knowing where the game clocks are, the
16:26communication of the headsets on the sidelines.
16:28Those are the things that you're going to expect when you go in tomorrow.
16:31And it's going to feel like a game in some respects because the bills are going to treat
16:34it like that.
16:35And then I just wonder, like, I'm assuming the organization is going to want all the
16:40bells and whistles pulled out because every person who walks into that stadium, they're
16:44going to want to come back to that stadium and they're going to do whatever they can
16:48to make sure you're getting the full effect of the video, full effect of the audio and
16:51everything else that goes along with it.
16:53So I think for me, that's why I'm excited to see how all of this looks.
16:57Yeah, it was interesting.
16:58Um, here's another reference to your, uh, podcast.
17:03It's always game day in Buffalo with Matt Bovee.
17:04When you have Pete Guelli on, he made a point about how in particular tomorrow, um, might
17:11be very unique in that sure.
17:14People want to find out, you know, go to their seats, you know, get settled and all
17:19that, but they're, you're also going to want to walk around the stadium and just see
17:23where everything is and like, which food is where and where can I get the kind of beer
17:28I want as opposed to all that.
17:31And so I wonder if you just might have like almost constant throughout the evening, you
17:37know, I don't know, half of the crowd just walking around.
17:41I agree.
17:42And I don't think there's nothing wrong with that.
17:44And I think they want that.
17:44They want people to do that, right?
17:45They're encouraging people to do that.
17:47The stadium is conducive to that.
17:49See what it's like.
17:49Right.
17:49Yes.
17:50Um, so I don't know if, I don't know if I told you guys this story, but when Yana and
17:55Max went to SoFi, uh, the year that the bills, they opened there.
17:57I've actually been there a couple of times, but the year the bills opened there and it
18:00was a Thursday night and we had friends there.
18:02So we went to LA, I went to the opener.
18:04They go to the game.
18:05They had tickets like when the club level with some friends.
18:07And you know, when you go to a bills game at old Highmark stadium, you go in the stadium,
18:12no matter where your ticket is, you can go down by the wall.
18:14If you get there early enough, you're part of the action.
18:16The guys are warming up.
18:17You're down there.
18:17You're whatever cheering on the team.
18:20Don't worry by the tunnel, whatever.
18:21And that's pretty much where weight isn't pretty much most stadiums that I know of.
18:25Well, you go to SoFi, they, they wanted to come down, like down by the field where I
18:30was.
18:31You couldn't even do that.
18:32They weren't allowed.
18:32Like once you got in, like off the elevator down the stairs, someone's checking your ticket.
18:36Nope.
18:36You have to be in level 400.
18:38Sorry.
18:39Go back up there that you couldn't do that.
18:41That is not the case at Highmark stadium.
18:43Some stadiums, it is like that.
18:45This, this stadium, the, the one for the bills, they're not going to do that.
18:48It's like, Hey, you want to go hang out at the charge bar with your friends, go hang
18:51out at the charge bar with your friends, walk around the stadium.
18:53No one's going to be checking your ticket to see now.
18:55You're not going to sit in someone's seat.
18:56Obviously it's not yours necessarily, but I always remember that because that's the
19:01way it is at some places, believe it or not.
19:03It's not like that here.
19:04And they're going to encourage it not to be like that.
19:07What time is tomorrow?
19:09Seven o'clock is when it starts.
19:10And Joe Brady said that he, he, he wanted to make it a night practice because he wanted to
19:15treat it like a night game.
19:16So the players have a full actual routine for the day as if they were playing a home
19:22night game, which they'll be doing.
19:24Cause let's remember the first game is going to be a home night game.
19:26There's a night, right, right.
19:28After what?
19:29Two preseason games, right?
19:31Carolina next Saturday afternoon.
19:32And I don't know about the other one.
19:34Correct.
19:34So this would be the only chance to actually do that, right?
19:36To have a, well, what is your home routine?
19:38What is traffic?
19:39You know, seriously, simple things like that.
19:40What is traffic like coming into the new stadium?
19:42You better know your timeline, all those kinds of things.
19:45And you know, the players, I have to check this.
19:48I think the players are going to go right to the stadium for games, but for practices,
19:52you know, they're still practicing across the street.
19:53So everything's a little different.
19:55So is there parking somewhere else than it would be if they were in the field house or
19:59something?
20:00Probably.
20:01They're not going to park over at the field house.
20:02Like you, I think it's going to be over, you know, I think it would be over at the stadium.
20:05I would think the new stadium, all that stuff you have to know.
20:07So, well, it's good that they're not playing.
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