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00:00Today, Nate, Joe, Jeremy, as we go first, Sal Capaccio with me now on the West Her Hotline.
00:09We've talked about this, Sal.
00:10Has the Sabres, has Sabres fever obstructed your view of this NFL draft?
00:16I mean, football is your focus, but for me and for us, I mean, we'd have spent much more
00:22time on the draft in other years than this.
00:25For sure.
00:27There are a lot of reasons for this draft to maybe be a little bit more in the back burner,
00:31but even in years where the Bills did pick later or drafts where it wasn't considered
00:36as highly touted as this one, it still was kind of the thing we talked about for most
00:41of April.
00:42That's changed.
00:43And so much so, Mike, that literally, even though I did the Mike North pod and we talked
00:47about the NFL schedule and you and I love the schedule, like the playoff schedule has
00:51been way more on my mind for the NHL over the last, you know, 48 hours.
00:56And today and figuring out what the heck is going on and what day they're playing and
00:59time they're playing and all that than the NFL schedule.
01:01So yes, I would say the NHL, the Sabres, the playoffs really kind of taking over a lot
01:06more in my brain than the NFL draft, but we're getting there.
01:09And I just did a mock draft yesterday over on channel four with the Bills kickoff live
01:14crew.
01:14And that was a nice exercise.
01:15And I like doing the mock draft exercises because you kind of go through some of the
01:19permutations of, you know, what could happen.
01:21And then you learn a little bit more about each player that you're thinking about.
01:23So we'll get to that before we leave the point about the schedule as a schedule scholar like
01:30yourself, is it insane to you that hockey has not announced yet dates and times with
01:36the playoff starting in two days?
01:38Or is it maybe, does it make some sense or what?
01:41I think it's ridiculous.
01:44I think that, you know, I come from a football world generally with these sorts of things.
01:51And, you know, the schedule six days out at the latest for any NFL game, a flex game,
01:56whatever they have to determine, you know, a couple of weeks out.
01:58And I get it because of the ramp up to an NFL game.
02:01But I mean, there are people making plans to go to games and trying to figure out what's
02:06going on.
02:06And Paul brought up a great point.
02:08I know he's not with you.
02:09I don't know if he said this with you, but he said it with me earlier today, which is,
02:12you know, I know people, most people don't care about the media, but people have jobs
02:15to do.
02:16The media has to think about hotels and planes and all those kinds of things, but just fans.
02:20I had a friend of mine call today.
02:22He does not live in Buffalo.
02:23And he said, Hey, I'm coming in for the game and, you know, let's go, let's meet up, whatever.
02:29And do you know when?
02:30I don't, I don't know when, like, I don't know what time.
02:32So I just think it's ridiculous that the league doesn't think about those kinds of things.
02:36Two days inside of two days just seems a bit ridiculous to me.
02:40I get it to get to Wednesday and Thursday, but as soon as that game ended, maybe on Wednesday
02:45night, last night, I think that's when the, really the league kind of should have said,
02:49okay, here's your next game.
02:50Buffalo Sabres.
02:51Yeah.
02:52That's the point to me.
02:53That is the most baffling is that I think for, it's one thing for fans not to know.
02:58It would be nice, but I've assumed that the team would know by Tuesday.
03:02I thought that the Sabres would know when they're playing and maybe they still don't.
03:06As we talk here on Thursday afternoon, they just know it's Sunday.
03:09I think probably it's seven given the different clues that have come out, but we still don't
03:12have that official.
03:14Okay.
03:15So to the NFL draft a week from tonight, you did a mock draft.
03:20You said with your colleagues at channel four, what did you learn?
03:26That there are really a lot of different kind of up in the air type of situations for teams.
03:31And I know that's kind of the case every year, but you could really make a case for so many
03:34different positions for so many teams.
03:36And the fact that there aren't these, I think it might come down that, that might, that's
03:39the case every year in a lot of ways, but I think this year it coincides Mike with not
03:44the best draft, not these slam dunk guys, just a lot of questions about a lot of guys.
03:49So, you know, you could kind of see a lot of teams doing a lot of different things.
03:53And I think, you know, the bills kind of fall into that category.
03:56And when we got to, well, the way we did it on channel four was, it was me, Tim Graham,
04:03Jonah Bronstein, Matt Perino, Thad Brown, and Mike Courtney.
04:09And every, what, what we each had a team, right?
04:11You assign a team.
04:12When you get to the end, then everybody takes the bills pick at 26 based on who's left.
04:18And we all had different picks for the bills, except me at the end, I actually doubled up
04:22on what Thad did, but I could have easily gone with another player.
04:25So basically six people, you kind of had, you had five different options and maybe even
04:30six with the bills, which was pretty cool.
04:32Actually, no doubt, a range of positions then.
04:37Yes, there were a range of positions.
04:39Actually.
04:39Now that I think about it, we had, we had receiver, we had off ball linebacker, we had defensive
04:46line, and I think we had safety as well.
04:50So at least four positions, maybe five, but I think that, that maybe, I don't think edge
04:55rusher was in there, but we discussed it.
04:57Where did you end up?
04:59So I ended up on Caden McDonald, the defensive lineman for Ohio state.
05:06Thad took him.
05:08I was reluctant to, because I didn't want to double up, but I said, you know what?
05:11I'm just looking at it and going, I could see a guy like maybe a Christian, Christian
05:14Miller or Caleb Banks or someone, you know, being another guy that would go with, but I
05:18liked that position, but it was tough.
05:20I mean, I think Tim went with wide receiver, maybe even Casey Concepcion.
05:24I don't want to speak for him.
05:24I have to go back and look, but I debated that.
05:27Like who would be, he's certainly in, in play for me, but I went with Caden McDonald.
05:31And the reason is I just think the bills really need a good interior run defender to pair with
05:39the guys that they have and the personnel they have and how Jim Leonard wants to run his
05:43defense.
05:43And they have said consistently, since Jim Leonard's been hired that stopping the run,
05:48stopping the run where I kind of back off and go, well, I don't know if you do.
05:52That is a couple of different reasons.
05:54Number one is the bills have a lot of guys and there are young guys under contract.
05:59You don't just want to move off of guys necessarily.
06:01Now, Dwayne Carter coming off the injury question mark there, right?
06:04But they went and they re-signed for Darian Mathis.
06:06They just drafted Deion Walker.
06:08They just drafted TJ Sanders.
06:09They have at Oliver.
06:11Like, I don't know where this guy plays if they take a guy.
06:13So I think that gets me to not really sure if that really would be what I'm going to
06:17do.
06:18And the other thing is maybe the rotation part of it.
06:21Like, how much are you playing a guy at that position?
06:24But maybe it's a lot more than the bills have normally done under Sean McDermott and Leslie
06:27Frazier and Bobby Babich.
06:28So I do think, though, that if Caden McDonald is available, he would kind of check all those
06:33boxes of what they need at that position.
06:35And I think they need that position.
06:37With Sal Capaccio, I'm Mike Shope.
06:39I hope it's our annual NFL pre-draft special that you can also be watching on YouTube as
06:44we do every day.
06:45Presented by your upstate Honda dealers.
06:48For great deals, visit your local upstate Honda dealer today.
06:52Sal, I got to say, I hope some, if not most of this stop the run emphasis talk is just
07:01there saying what they think people want to hear.
07:04You and I have talked for years about how maybe the bills defense doesn't get enough
07:09attention for their being so superior against the pass.
07:15And what it's led to is, well, for one thing, great seasons.
07:19But even statistically, last year fell off a little bit.
07:22I think, and you might also think that their inability to stop the run has been overstated.
07:29And I don't really want to see a different philosophy in this context from the bills.
07:35We might, it's a new coach and who knows, but I'm kind of hoping that that's sort of,
07:39it's one of these phrases that coaches love to, you know, use all the time.
07:43And I don't want it to be so, so important to them.
07:47I understand.
07:48I do.
07:49And I do think though, the bills want to be able to kind of control the game a little
07:54bit better and not let it get away from them sometimes.
07:56And I think that when you get teams who can run on you in first and second down, that
07:59allows them to be a little bit, you know, more diverse on third down and things like
08:03that.
08:03All those football-y things we talk about.
08:05But Mike, I also think that just, there's not a lot of holes on this team necessarily,
08:09right?
08:09Not a lot of needs, starting especially, like starting positions.
08:12And I've, I said to you, you know, a couple of weeks ago, and I maintain this, the only
08:19spot I could even see them thinking about on offense is wide receiver.
08:22Like, where's a guy going to play?
08:23I can't, we actually had a good debate actually on the show about interior defense, offensive
08:28line, even offensive line overall, like with Deion Dawkins, you know, he's getting a little
08:32older.
08:33He's got a couple of years left.
08:34I don't think it's, I don't think it's in play for them, but some of the guys do and
08:37thought that they could go offensive line early.
08:40I don't.
08:40I do think middle rounds is possible at some depth there.
08:43So I think only wide receiver.
08:44And then on the defensive side, I just think you can make a case for a lot of different positions,
08:49but mostly up front.
08:50So if you're going to go up front, I think you can make a case for a guy that, you
08:54know,
08:54you don't have a guy like this.
08:55You don't, you need a guy like this.
08:56So maybe we can say it a different way here to not sound like the football coach, which
09:01is not necessarily because you want to stop the run, which is what they talk about, but
09:04they don't really have a guy like that.
09:06You know, Deion Walker, to me, Mike, if you, and Bulldog has said this too, and I agree
09:09with him.
09:11If you put Deion Walker in the middle of the defense at the traditional nose, you're
09:16kind of taking away what he does best.
09:18And the way I always describe this is if you don't have much of a point guard and you take
09:23your shooting guard and say, okay, you've got to be a distributor and a point guard.
09:26You're actually hurting yourself in two areas because he's not really the best point guard
09:31that you could find.
09:32He might be the best on your roster at that point, but you could do better.
09:35And then you actually need now to find another shooting guard.
09:38I think that's the kind of the same thing with Deion Walker.
09:40Sure.
09:40Can he play nose tackle?
09:42Yes.
09:42I don't think that's maximizing what he does best.
09:45So to maximize what he does best to me, you need a guy like that.
09:48And then you're better at stopping the run.
09:50And then you're better at forcing teams to kind of, you're dictating terms a little
09:53bit more to them.
09:55With Sal Capaccio, I'm Mike Shope here on WGR.
09:58Bulldog is off until Tuesday.
10:00You and I talked, and I presume Bulldog was here the day after they traded for DJ more.
10:06And we talked about, would they draft a wide receiver in round one?
10:10Is that something that you could still see them doing?
10:12And I said, no.
10:13And you might've also said no.
10:15I'm not sure.
10:15But it seems-
10:16I said yes.
10:17You said yes.
10:18Okay.
10:18And the reason was, if you remember, we had this discussion about the, I said yes because
10:22of the financials of it more than anything.
10:24Right.
10:24Okay.
10:25Yep.
10:26As I sit here a week away, respecting that point very much, I still can't see it.
10:31I've got two roadblocks.
10:34One is, I just used my second round pick on DJ Moore.
10:38So, in a sense, I'm using my top two picks on wide receivers.
10:42I don't feel like they would want to do that ever.
10:46And I don't know if this matters to you.
10:48It may not.
10:48It may, maybe shouldn't matter to me.
10:50But just sort of the history with Brandon Bean on this subject is, like, that is full
10:55capitulation, Sal, if he goes and drafts a receiver in round one and his second round
10:59pick is spent on a receiver as well.
11:01That is full capitulation.
11:03And that would not, if I'm Bean, I wouldn't want that.
11:07I still had a great season, you know, doing it the way I did it and what I defended about
11:11my build.
11:13And I just would not want to have it look like I could completely reverse course at
11:17the position.
11:18So, maybe that's more selfish or, you know, not even, probably shouldn't be something that
11:24matters.
11:24But I think, you know, often that kind of thing does.
11:27I think it can and does sometimes.
11:29You're saying optics, basically, right?
11:30The optics of him doing that would be not good for him.
11:33I don't know.
11:34I don't know if, I don't know if I want to go that far with Brandon Bean on doing it,
11:41but I totally understand where you're coming from.
11:43I would say on the point of the second round pick and the first round pick, for sure.
11:47Mike, this comes down to one question for me.
11:49It really does.
11:50And I've said this for a while.
11:52What do they think about Keon Coleman?
11:54I mean, if they believe, they truly believe that Keon Coleman is going to put his maturity
12:00issues behind him, they're not taking a first round wide receiver.
12:03It just doesn't make sense to have DJ Moore, to have Keanu, you just drafted a couple years
12:06ago, to still have, you know, Khalil Shakir and Joshua Palmer.
12:10And like, it just doesn't make sense.
12:12We'll know everything they think about Keon Coleman, I think, if they actually do draft
12:16a wide receiver the first round, which to me says they don't believe in him.
12:20And I think we need the answer to that, that question first.
12:25And since we don't know it, we'll find it out maybe.
12:27But if they don't believe in Keon Coleman, there is still absolutely room near the top
12:32of this depth chart for another wide receiver.
12:35So I need that question answered, but I can't really get the answer to that question until
12:40it's kind of cart before the horse, chicken and egg type of thing that's going to happen
12:43on Thursday night next week.
12:44Well, I've got two things here.
12:46One is, may I bring up again, this quote from The Athletic by Brandon Bean that Joe
12:52Biscaglia tweeted two days ago.
12:55I didn't retweet it because I didn't want it to look like I was banging on Joe because
12:58that would not be the point.
13:00Bean on Coleman, quote, listen, he has to go do it, but I think we feel confident that
13:05the maturity level is heading where it needs to.
13:07You think you feel confident that maturity is heading where it needs to?
13:13How many different words can you come up with to couch your position on this?
13:17I don't know.
13:18I haven't been optimistic for Coleman.
13:20And my reading between the lines here on Bean is that he's not either.
13:24Maybe Brady is, and there could be a little bit of a struggle internally if that's the
13:29case when it comes to playing time for Coleman.
13:32So I would, I would say that first, this latest depiction of the situation from the GM does
13:38not make me feel good about where they're at or where he's at in terms of Coleman.
13:43Do you take that the same way or no?
13:45I pretty much do.
13:47I, I think he has sounded the same since the combine set.
13:50I mean, and that's after what happened with the Bean Pagula press conference, right?
13:55When that was kind of like, oh, wow.
13:57And all the, the shock of, you know, what was said about Keon Coleman from the owner.
14:01And then they kind of, you know, did their best to kind of unwind that a little bit or,
14:04you know, get back to where, Hey, you know, that, that the way it came out and what we
14:08feel about him.
14:09And then Joe Brady, the best thing that's ever happened to Keon Coleman and happened
14:12to you talking to Keon Coleman is me becoming your head coach.
14:15Then we get to the combine and he talked about his maturity issues and he needs to have the
14:20same kind of off season he had last year and then continue it.
14:22And, but there's not a, oh, we're absolutely sure we know where this is going.
14:27Like, I think you're right.
14:29Every time he's talked about him, going back to the combine, the owner's meetings, that
14:33quote that Joe tweeted out, no doubt about it.
14:36I think every single one of them has the same common thread, which is hope more than certainty,
14:43right?
14:43That's what it sounds like to me.
14:44Hope more than certainty.
14:45And if you're banging, if you're, if you're, you're banking on hope more than certainty,
14:51then I think that you also have to have doubt.
14:54And if you have doubt and you're not the guy that necessarily believed in here or drafted
14:57him as the owner basically said, then I think it still leaves open the possibility that you
15:03do something to go over top of him in the draft.
15:07Hope over certainty, or even just confidence.
15:09I mean, this sounds like he didn't even really want to say that he has confidence in Coleman.
15:13And just, I think we do well, that shouldn't really be a choice confidence.
15:18You either feel it or you don't also the second thing here, and then we can get to sort of
15:22a broader perspective before we run out of time, Sal on the draft.
15:25Hayden Winks is an analyst that I have a lot of respect for, and he puts together his top
15:31100 prospects, how they, in his opinion, his guests, how they, when they will slot in
15:36at the draft.
15:37He has 15 wide receivers being drafted by the end of day two.
15:42So the end of the third round, the bills don't have a second round pick.
15:46To me, it is super clear that they need to get out of round one and turn that pick into
15:53two picks on the second day, which that, that happens.
15:55The math works.
15:56And you know, they're not going to be, of course, the same level of prospect, even at
16:00just wide receiver.
16:01But there are some interesting options there.
16:03And in terms of pick 26, I'm kind of like, I'm hoping for Concepcion, but that's all
16:11I would do at receiver with that pick.
16:14I mean, I don't expect anybody else that goes, you know, mock usually higher to be available
16:19for me.
16:19And I do not want to see a trade up.
16:21I mean, they need, they need some depth on this roster, I think.
16:25So for me, Benjamin Solak wrote today at his ESPN piece, quote, uh, where'd I put it?
16:33I'm screaming trade down.
16:34He wrote, I'm almost screaming trade down also.
16:37And if you want a wide receiver out of the first two days, that's, that's credible as
16:41a, maybe a starter, then that's my path to getting there.
16:46So a couple of things on this.
16:47Number one, let's address the, address the wide receiver point.
16:49So first three rounds is what 32, 64, 96 picks, right?
16:57I mean, I, I think it's very possible, Mike, everything that I've seen general consensus,
17:03there are close to 20 wide receivers considered in the top 100 of this draft.
17:08Think about that for a second.
17:09That's crazy.
17:09Right?
17:10I mean, so I could see it now.
17:12Everybody's gonna have a little different take on that or whatever, but no doubt you
17:15could see something like that.
17:16Okay.
17:17Trading down 100%.
17:19Like you give me the option right now, what, what, anything the bills can do here, I'm
17:23trading down.
17:24And it's exactly for the reason you said and exactly what we talked about.
17:28So every year I come on this radio station and where I've been talking to you for many
17:33years and we talk and I say this, there are never 26 first round grades for any team in
17:40this league.
17:40Never.
17:41I've talked to enough people over the years that tell you a good draft gives you 20 first
17:47round grades.
17:47Generally, you're going to get between 15 and 20.
17:50Okay.
17:51So by the time you get to 26, pretty much all your first round talent graded players are
17:58off the board.
18:00So you're going to sit at 26 and you're going to take a guy in that spot.
18:08You're basically taking a guy in the first round.
18:10You do not have a first round grade on.
18:12And as Brandon Bean himself has said, that is unfair to the player, much less the team.
18:18You are basically putting an expectation on that player to be a first round talent when
18:21he's not.
18:22And I agree with that.
18:23Like if you draft a guy in the first round, Oh, first round or a talent, but the team kind
18:26of doesn't even think he's a first rounder, but you put them in that position.
18:29Now you don't want to do that.
18:30So you'd much rather trade out of that spot.
18:33The problem is Mike, what team is going to trade up with you?
18:37If they all have this same issue, if they all are thinking we don't have a first round
18:41grade and a guy at 26, why am I trading into the first round of 26?
18:43Unless it's a quarterback and a guy like Ty Simpson, he starts falling somebody else.
18:49Now maybe you get the value.
18:51So I agree with you.
18:53I just don't know what the path to do it is because you have to think from other teams
18:57perspectives, who's coming up to take a player at 26.
19:00They got to really love them.
19:01If you don't have got 26 guys with first round grades or even close to it.
19:06Yeah.
19:06There's been some speculation about a trade up earlier in the first round, much earlier,
19:1312 and six, Dallas moving up is one, uh, Arizona maybe up there, but 26, 26 is a spot where
19:21you just see teams watch the draft play out first.
19:24They want to see, you know, like what, what might somebody falls to them.
19:28You don't want to have traded down already.
19:30Um, so you tend to only see those kinds of trades once the draft is underway, which it
19:36will be in, well, even, even Joe Shane said this and they're, they're, they're picking higher.
19:40Joe Shane said like, okay, we could track, like we wouldn't trade down until it got to
19:44our pick.
19:44That's what he said, which is right.
19:46I mean, who would do that?
19:47You know, you're not going to trade out of your spot until you know exactly what's
19:50happening at your spot.
19:52Of course.
19:53Quick thought on this draft in general, Sal, does it seem light to you?
19:56That's what a lot of people say.
19:57Yeah.
19:58Yeah.
19:58But Mike, I I'm, I'm really fascinated as a kind of overall football fan and college football
20:04fan about how this has evolved, where college guys are going back now because of NIL.
20:10And I know they could make more money going into the NFL, but they're making money now.
20:14They're making some money and it's enough for them to say, ah, I have more options.
20:18I don't want to go to the jets.
20:19I'm Dante more.
20:19I want to go back to Oregon, right?
20:21There are, there are a good five or six guys that maybe could have been first, second round
20:24guys.
20:25Like look at some of the, you know, websites and rankings and prospects from months ago.
20:30And they've decided to go back to college.
20:32And I just think it's really impacting how these teams are operating right now and the
20:36future of the draft overall.
20:38Well, I want to say we can still be optimistic for next year because eventually those guys
20:43do have to leave.
20:44I know this from experience.
20:45You can't stay in college forever.
20:47I tried.
20:48They said, you have to go.
20:50So, um, that'll eventually come back in our, our direction.
20:54I mean, but you do know that there are other people who stay, who are younger, who could
20:58go, right?
20:59You know that that math.
21:00Well, you know, I'm going to have to look into that.
21:04All right.
21:04Sal, thank you for being a part of our pre-draft special.
21:07All right.
21:08You got it, man.
21:09Um, let's, uh, let's find out when this, uh, Sabres game is on Sunday.
21:12Let's find out.
21:14All right.
21:14Thanks, Mike.
21:15Thank you, Sal.
21:16In Western New York, we get to the game no matter what.
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21:45Nate Geary drops by next.
21:46More draft talk after the update.
21:50As far as we know, the Sabres, well, we still don't have an official game one.
21:55They did announce earlier today, as you may have seen or heard, it'll be Sunday.
22:00And my guess is that it'll be at seven, but I've been wrong twice already on this one.
22:04So take it for what it's worth.
22:06This is Mike Shope back with Nate after the update.
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