- 16 hours ago
The Nats have dealt Curtis Mead and Luis Garcia Jr. so far, perhaps at peak value, and gotten back five pitchers who could be big parts of the future here. Jesse Dougherty has been plugged in through it all and joins The Junkies to analyze the moves so far!
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00:00What's going on, Jesse?
00:02How are you guys?
00:03What's up, man?
00:04So let's start with the Luis Garcia deal.
00:07How difficult do you think that was,
00:09or was it a no-brainer move by Timoni and the organization?
00:13Yeah, I mean, I think there's a real element here of selling high,
00:19and you'd hope that what you've done with him in the last few months
00:23is going to stick for him and also replicable for other players,
00:27but also he hasn't been this hot of a hitter in his career to date.
00:32He's had a lot of opportunities in the majors,
00:33so you have a chance to strengthen the weakness, which is pitching,
00:37which is obvious for anyone who's watched this team,
00:39and that goes up and down the organization.
00:41They took it, so I don't know if it was too, too difficult.
00:45I mean, there's the emotional element, longest-tenured player.
00:47I think that's probably more for the fans than the front office,
00:49especially given that those guys are newer
00:50and they weren't exactly invested in his entire arc,
00:53maybe like the old group would have been.
00:55But, yeah, it felt like if you could get a couple lottery tickets,
01:00you know, a couple guys you feel pretty good about,
01:02whether you like one or two of their pitches,
01:04a couple guys who could help sooner rather than later in the majors,
01:07it felt like a pretty good package for a guy who,
01:10before this season, was a non-tender candidate.
01:12He could have been cut loose for nothing,
01:14and they held on and they really made something up for him.
01:16So I think through that lens, I think it really was kind of a no-brainer.
01:19Jesse, do you think part of the Nats mentality
01:21is that they've proven so adept at developing hitters
01:26just in this first year under Butera and Toboni
01:28that they're almost borderline, like, arrogant
01:32to the point where they can get a talented player
01:35and just make him better by putting him in their system?
01:37Because we've seen it across a bunch of players here.
01:40Mead, you know, Jacob Young.
01:43You see it with Garcia as well.
01:44I mean, it's just across the board,
01:46these guys have improved offensive power numbers especially.
01:50Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to evolve down the stretch here,
01:54but there was a point where every player on the active roster
01:57was going to set a career high in home runs,
01:58which is pretty bonkers.
02:00And then you look at the system, too,
02:02and a lot of players, Seaver King, recent first-round pick,
02:04has really taken a leap there power-wise.
02:07And, yeah, I do think there's a lot of confidence,
02:09but I think there's, like, it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing, too,
02:12because it also, like, they were not able to remake
02:15the entire system when they got here, right?
02:16They inherited most of the players they have,
02:19especially pre-this draft this summer.
02:20So not only, I think, are they confident that they can develop hitters,
02:23but also I think it's pretty indicative that you can do so much in coaching
02:27and you can do so much in development,
02:28but also, like, the players that were here were clearly stronger
02:31on the offensive side than the pitching side, right?
02:33So I think there obviously is a real confidence,
02:36and I wrote about it recently, that, you know, we can make,
02:38I think, as I put it, you can make Curtis Mead at home, right?
02:40So you can trade him for a pitcher, a controllable pitcher,
02:44because we believe we can replicate that process at least one more time,
02:47five more times, ten more times.
02:49But I also think it just really proves that, by and large,
02:53the players that were here to begin with were much stronger on that side of the ball.
02:57So it's a little bit of both,
02:58but they certainly seem like they feel very good about their offensive development process
03:03because they're saying, you know,
03:05this thing we did with both identifying talent on the free agent market,
03:08on the scrap heap, so to speak,
03:09and then also, you know, what we've done for a bunch of guys,
03:12like the ones you've named, like,
03:13we feel like that's something we can keep doing,
03:15and the pitching's a bit more of a question mark.
03:17Right. Jesse, do you think that Garcia was getting traded
03:19no matter what happened in Atlanta this weekend?
03:21Even if they had swept Atlanta,
03:23they were still going to move Garcia?
03:25Yeah, that's an interesting one.
03:27I would say yes,
03:28because I think that what they've sort of done here
03:31is put themselves on dual tracks,
03:32and it's sort of a buy and sell both ways.
03:36And even this trade did that, right?
03:39I mean, two of the guys are younger and in double-A,
03:41and maybe they're the higher upside prospects,
03:44but then two of them are relievers at major league experience.
03:47So that's a way where you can both sell guys
03:50who are maybe either playing above their potential
03:53or really are at their potential now,
03:56and you can get real pieces for it
03:57that you're going to lose in a year or two years from now
03:59and also add in the moment.
04:01And I think that, like, the mean trade was similar too.
04:04Like, Connelly Early is more of a future piece than Curtis Mead,
04:06given how Mead was hitting,
04:07but he also could return this month and help the rotation.
04:10So there was definitely, like, a desire
04:12to really help the pitching staff immediately too.
04:14And I've been thinking a lot, like,
04:16maybe it feels, it probably feels worse for fans
04:18if they won three or four in Atlanta
04:20and then still traded the guy
04:21who's leading the National League in slugging, right?
04:23Like, that would just be a harder pill to swallow.
04:24It probably makes it easier just from, like, a PR perspective
04:27that they laid an egg this weekend, they're three under,
04:29they lose five straight going into the deadline,
04:31and now it's, like, becomes really, really intuitive to deal him.
04:34But I have a feeling that no matter what,
04:36he was on the block and that this was a guy
04:37who was not going to be on the team past this week.
04:39So we expect Yovani Cruz and Jake Bird
04:42to be on the active roster pretty quickly, correct?
04:47Yeah, Cruz, I think, probably right away.
04:50Bird was optioned to AAA yesterday.
04:51Okay.
04:53But, yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, for Cruz,
04:55he's triple-digit fastball.
04:57He's given up hard contact,
04:58but he has a lot of swing and miss stuff.
05:00It's frankly just, like, characteristics that just don't exist
05:03in the bullpen as is,
05:04and it's just a totally different arm than they have.
05:07Bird, to me, is kind of, is definitely the tack-on.
05:11I mean, he's not a prospect.
05:12Right.
05:12You know, he's older.
05:13He's 30.
05:14He's been in the majors.
05:15Some of this is inflated by pitching a course field
05:18for so many years,
05:19but he's, you know, he's never finished with an ERA
05:21better than the mid-fours,
05:22which for a reliever isn't great.
05:23So, it's, you know, he's probably better than your fourth, fifth, sixth guy
05:27in what's been, you know,
05:28the worst bullpen in baseball for a lot of this season.
05:30So, that's a minor upgrade.
05:32But, like, I think of, you know,
05:33if you think of the return in terms of looking ahead,
05:35it's the three guys and then him.
05:37But, if he does help you a bit here and there
05:39and gives you more stability than you had
05:40in some of those sort of middle relief spots,
05:43then that's a minor win.
05:44But, it wasn't, like, the focus of the trade by any means.
05:48So, do we see Foster Griffin on the move today
05:51at some point before the 6 p.m. trade deadline?
05:54The Nats couldn't have picked the worst time
05:56to get swept by the Braves.
05:58The bats went silent.
06:00You know, it's what they've been relying on all season.
06:02Does Foster Griffin move to another team before 6 p.m. today?
06:06Yeah, I mean, if I had to handicap it, I'd say yes.
06:08I think one thing that's kind of relevant there
06:12is that the starting pitcher market,
06:13especially the front-line starter,
06:15and he's played himself or pitched himself
06:17into that sort of category
06:18has definitely thinned out in recent days.
06:20I mean, we've obviously saw Scooball move.
06:22We've seen Gosman move.
06:24We've seen Freddy Peralta move.
06:26You know, a lot of guys have gone off the board.
06:28So, you know, in some ways,
06:31the buyers have typically been favored in that market.
06:34You know, a lot of the returns have had people say,
06:36you know, oh, wow, you know,
06:37they only had to give up that for a big-name pitcher.
06:40Luis Castillo's another one who went to the White Sox.
06:42But I think there's also sort of a flip side of that,
06:45that if you're the Nationals now
06:46and you have Foster Griffin, who was an all-star,
06:49he's on an expiring deal, which I think teams like
06:51because they don't have to commit too much money to him,
06:53you know, especially beyond this year.
06:54You know, if you think about, you know,
06:56some of those big-name pitchers are off the board.
06:58Now there's teams that still want an arm
07:00or need an arm for the run.
07:02You actually could play yourself into having more leverage, right?
07:04I mean, it's been a buyer's market on the pitching side.
07:06Maybe the Nationals actually, you know,
07:08wind up taking advantage of the fact that they have a guy
07:11on the other side of the market really thinning out
07:13some of those bigger names.
07:14So I would say it's more likely than not that he's dealt.
07:18I mean, it's another situation of selling high.
07:20You know, I think if you have the assessment in-house of him,
07:23I think they're pretty confident in what they've done with him
07:25and what he's shown that it's not going to just be a one-off this season.
07:28But also, you know, he was the guy they got for $5 million,
07:31you know, from Japan this offseason.
07:33And if they can flip him for a couple of players
07:35to help them down the line, I mean, that's a big organizational win,
07:38especially given that they now have played themselves
07:40deeper into the, you know, wild card hole
07:42and they're four and a half out from that third spot.
07:44I think more than Garcia, the situation with Griffin
07:48was probably affected by these last five games
07:50and how the last week is gone.
07:51And, you know, it feels a little silly to hold on to,
07:55you know, the ace of your staff, which sounds crazy
07:57when your playoff odds have really dwindled
08:00and there's a pretty crowded field in front of you.
08:02Sure. So apparently the Yankees were really interested
08:05in C.J. Abrams over the last couple of weeks.
08:07Now, since they made the move for Garcia,
08:10I'm not sure what they're going to do.
08:11Not that Garcia plays shortstop.
08:13I mean, the Yankees still would like a shortstop,
08:16especially a hitting shortstop.
08:17The Red Sox apparently also are interested.
08:21I have said multiple times I didn't think
08:23they were going to trade C.J.,
08:24but now that they're four and a half back
08:27and they've already given up Garcia,
08:29I guess it's more of a possibility.
08:32I'm sure you watched the game yesterday.
08:34That was just a horrible throw that Abrams made
08:37for his 19th error of the year.
08:40That's every shortstop in Major League Baseball
08:43should make that throw 100 times out of 100.
08:46Now, I know Brady House is not a first baseman,
08:48but that ball has got to be right at his chest,
08:50and it wasn't.
08:50Anyway, do you think C.J. is now more in play
08:54before the deadline?
08:56Yeah, it's an interesting question,
08:58and actually bringing up that throw is relevant, too,
09:02because I think one thing that's really held up
09:03trade talks with him,
09:04and this is not new to this season,
09:06it happened in the past, too,
09:07was that the Nationals are looking for a return
09:10for a frontline shortstop,
09:11and I think a lot of teams,
09:13when thinking about giving a big, big package
09:15for a player like Abrams,
09:17would say, well, we don't actually view him
09:18as a shortstop,
09:19which is a permanent position on the field.
09:20I mean, defensively, along with catcher
09:22in center field, it's important as it gets.
09:23So they say, you know, he's a second base,
09:25maybe he's an outfielder.
09:26So that's sort of, that's affected the trade market
09:28and talks for him in a considerable way,
09:31and I think with Abrams,
09:32like, the way the Nationals have played
09:35to this point is extremely relevant,
09:37and I think it would be really surprising
09:40at this point if he moves,
09:42from what I've heard.
09:43And I talked to somebody last week,
09:45and I was sort of pushing against the idea,
09:48not just with Abrams, but in general,
09:49that, you know, being two games under
09:52or two games over was really going to affect
09:54decision-making for a front office
09:55that, to me, has, like, has proven
09:58to be sort of process-driven
09:59in a dispassionate way, right?
10:00And I'm not even saying that pejoratively.
10:02I'm saying that, like, they really say,
10:03like, we stick to our plan,
10:04we have this vision,
10:05we're going to do it this way,
10:07we're future-focused more than anything.
10:09But they told me that it's not necessarily
10:11that they're two games over
10:13or two games under,
10:13and they're thinking about it
10:14for only this season
10:16and this playoff push.
10:17It's that the way this team has played
10:18to this point shows that
10:19for this, not just this year,
10:21but beyond,
10:21it's probably much closer
10:22than the front office maybe expected
10:24when they inherited the roster.
10:25And the way that the skill sets
10:28that they had
10:28and the players that were already here
10:30has gelled with the new coaching staff
10:32and what they're preaching,
10:32like, they've actually,
10:33it's just proven that this team
10:35is in a much better shape
10:37and much more competitive,
10:39you know, sooner than they really expected.
10:41So I was sort of off on the fact
10:43that it might matter
10:44whether they're three under
10:45or two under or two up
10:46or one up, like, of 500.
10:48It's more that, like,
10:49the fact that we're having
10:50this conversation at all
10:51shows that if you have a guy,
10:53a star-level player
10:54who's under control
10:55for two more years,
10:56that this group has shown
10:57that it deserves to have
10:58that guy kept on the roster
10:59to see what can happen
11:00and to build around him
11:02and James Wood
11:03and Kay Cavalli
11:04and some others.
11:04So I think that, like,
11:06the Abrams thing,
11:07you know,
11:08three months ago
11:09had been like,
11:09well, they'd be really silly
11:10not to capitalize.
11:11Look what happened
11:11with the Juan Soto deal, right?
11:12That set them up for this era.
11:13But the way that the team
11:15has played to this point
11:16and played themselves
11:17into even, you know,
11:18the fringe, fringe, fringe
11:19of the playoff conversation
11:20is definitely instructive
11:22of how they're going to handle it.
11:23And I think you're right.
11:23And I don't even think
11:24the Red Sox need him.
11:25They've won 31 of 38.
11:27They just went out
11:28to the Dodgers
11:28and swept him.
11:30They really don't need him,
11:31especially if he's
11:31a poor defensive player.
11:33So if I was the Red Sox,
11:34I wouldn't trade him.
11:35But, and I agree,
11:36I don't think he's going
11:36to be dealt.
11:38Although having Luis Garcia
11:39and CJ Abrams
11:39in one lineup
11:40has proven to be
11:41a pretty good formula
11:41this season
11:42for at least one team.
11:44But I hear you.
11:45Yeah, I mean,
11:46they've been incredible.
11:47So maybe they don't need
11:48to mortgage a lot
11:49of their future
11:49to add one more bat.
11:51Talking to Jesse Doherty,
11:52MLB and National Supporter
11:53for Notice Reports.
11:54Kind of based on
11:55what you're saying,
11:56and you know this,
11:57there's a lot of the fan base
12:00that is against
12:01this ownership group, right?
12:03They're anti-learners
12:04because of the lack
12:05of spending.
12:06How close do you think
12:08they are to being
12:08a spending team once again?
12:11Are they close?
12:13Or can it happen again?
12:15I'm going to say negative.
12:18But if they get
12:19a salary cap,
12:20if they get a salary cap,
12:21they've got to spend
12:21a certain amount of money,
12:22which will be a lot more money
12:23than what they're spending now.
12:24Yeah, well that's a good point, right?
12:27We're barreling toward
12:28a labor situation this weekend
12:29that was probably strengthened
12:31by this Tariq Scoobo trade
12:32that, you know,
12:34whatever's on the other side
12:34of that will give
12:35a better answer.
12:36But, you know,
12:36I think that the best question there,
12:40and I wish I had more clarity,
12:41I mean,
12:42ownership groups in sports
12:43are infamously
12:45or famously private.
12:47You know,
12:48money buys you tall walls
12:49around you, typically.
12:52But, you know,
12:53I think the best question there
12:54is will it happen again?
12:55Because, you know,
12:58we could sit around
13:00all day and talk about,
13:01well, now that they have
13:02these four guys,
13:03they should add
13:03a Jason Wirth type player.
13:05Now that the pitching staff
13:06has these three guys,
13:07they should add
13:07a Patrick Corbin type starter,
13:09you know,
13:09to go out
13:10and really push them
13:11over the top.
13:11But we're not sure,
13:13and it's incumbent
13:13on people like me
13:14to figure out
13:15what the situation here is,
13:16if they're even interested
13:17in running payrolls
13:18like that again.
13:18Like, there's been
13:19this kind of narrative,
13:20and I've written about it too,
13:21since 2020, 2021,
13:23that, like,
13:23that the whole goal
13:24is to get back
13:25to the spending levels
13:26relative to the top
13:27of the league
13:27that they were in
13:28from 2013
13:29or 2012
13:30to 2019.
13:31And we actually
13:32don't know
13:32if that's how
13:33they plan to run
13:33this team.
13:35And, you know,
13:36they, it,
13:37obviously, you know,
13:38you'd hope
13:38for a city
13:40and what I think
13:41owners owe
13:41the cities they own
13:42baseball teams in
13:43that they do get
13:43back there.
13:44But, you know,
13:45there's examples
13:45around baseball
13:46of teams that do
13:47this in a much
13:48different way.
13:48You know,
13:49there's the Brewers
13:49and the Rays
13:50and there's Cleveland
13:51and those teams,
13:52they make the playoffs
13:53often and they,
13:54and they're very competitive
13:55and they will
13:57sometimes trade
13:58really good players
13:58when they're in
13:59the playoff race
14:00and you,
14:00and then you say,
14:01oh my gosh,
14:01what's going on?
14:02But then those guys
14:03they trade for
14:03in three years
14:04are stars
14:04and then,
14:05then they trade them
14:06when they're in
14:06the playoff race
14:06and they just
14:07repeat that process
14:08and they don't spend
14:09like the Dodgers
14:10and they don't spend
14:11like the Mets
14:12but they're really
14:13competitive.
14:13Now, if I'm an owner,
14:15if I'm thinking about
14:16this from the most
14:17sort of billionaire
14:18perspective
14:18and my goal
14:19is to make money
14:21on these teams
14:21is to cash in
14:22on the next TV deal
14:23as much as possible
14:24is to win
14:25without spending money.
14:26I mean, if you tell me,
14:27look, you have a plan
14:28to be like the Rays
14:29and the Brewers
14:30and we can make the playoffs
14:31and make fans pretty happy
14:32and sometimes we get dinged
14:33on the PR
14:33and sometimes they're mad
14:34on Twitter
14:35but by and large
14:35we're playing good baseball
14:36but I don't have to open up
14:37my pocketbook
14:38like Steve Cohen.
14:39Like, sign me up, right?
14:40Like, that's the billionaire's dream.
14:43It's certainly not the fans' dream
14:44and certainly not, you know,
14:46fun to talk about
14:47because it's way more fun
14:47to talk about
14:48when the Nationals
14:49are in the mix
14:49with the biggest free agent
14:50and I think there was a joke
14:52for a long time
14:52that they were always
14:53the mystery team, right?
14:54Lurking in the background
14:55and maybe going to make the play
14:56for the big guy.
14:57Now, so I think
14:59the biggest question there
15:00at least for now
15:01until we know
15:02or until we have some clarity
15:03about their plans
15:04isn't necessarily like
15:05how close are they
15:06because we need to know
15:07that it's their interest at all
15:09and that's something
15:10I'm super interested in
15:11in terms of reporting.
15:13It's going to be
15:13a focus of mine
15:14down the stretch
15:15so I think that's
15:15the major question.
15:16Like, this team now,
15:17you had the best offense
15:17in baseball
15:18for four months at least.
15:19You have a young core.
15:21You have a coaching staff
15:22that clearly is adept
15:23at developing talent
15:23both in the minors
15:24and in the major leagues
15:25which is no small thing, right?
15:26Guys are getting better
15:27in the majors
15:27which is huge.
15:29Now, what is ownership's plan
15:31to capitalize on that
15:32and is there one?
15:33Or is it,
15:34well, that looks pretty good
15:35how it is.
15:35We're going to try
15:36and run it like this
15:37and grow through the farm system
15:39and we're not necessarily
15:40going to go out
15:41and get these massive free agents.
15:42And then the last point
15:43on that
15:43is a lot of these young guys
15:45and a lot of teams
15:46are opening up
15:47their checkbooks
15:48for extensions
15:49for young guys.
15:50So, when you look
15:51across the league
15:52and you say
15:52who's going to be available
15:53in three or four years
15:54as that massive name
15:56the list is actually
15:57getting a lot shorter
15:58than it might have been
15:59five, six, seven years ago
16:00because teams are getting
16:01really, really aggressive
16:02in spending a lot of money
16:04to keep their players around.
16:05So, will the Nationals do that?
16:07You know, is there an extension
16:08for C.J. Abrams,
16:09Kay Cavalli,
16:10Dalen Lyle,
16:11James Wood, right?
16:12Massive question.
16:14So, I don't think
16:15it's not just free agent
16:16market,
16:16it's how they actually
16:17treat their own players
16:17and whether they keep
16:19them at home
16:19or they just keep
16:20flipping them over
16:21and over and turning it
16:21and hoping that the
16:23big trade return
16:24for the next big guy
16:25fuels the next winner.
16:26And that's tough
16:27because it just means
16:28that like real connection
16:29points for this city
16:30are few and far between.
16:31I think people here
16:32are really starved for that
16:33to say,
16:33can I buy a jersey
16:34and trust that I can wear it
16:36for three seasons,
16:37four seasons,
16:38ten seasons.
16:38It's a great point, Jesse.
16:39Obviously.
16:40Good stuff, man.
16:41That's all right.
16:41It'd be nice if the Nats
16:43had Jake Bennett
16:44pitching for him right now.
16:46That's right.
16:47That's obviously
16:48not going to happen.
16:48Jake Bennett is a guy
16:49that the Nats traded
16:50to the Red Sox
16:51and he just beat
16:52the Dodgers yesterday.
16:53Jesse, always appreciate
16:54the time and insight.
16:55Thanks, pal.
16:56Yeah, thanks, guys.
16:57Thanks, Jesse.
16:58MLB and Nationals
16:59reporter for Notice Reports,
17:01Jesse Doherty.
17:02Coming up next,
17:03we're going to get to
17:04one of the favorite
17:04topics of training camp,
17:06wide receiver
17:07and the commanders.
17:08Love it.
17:09Is there somebody
17:09they should trade for
17:10in the AFC?
17:11We'll tackle that next
17:12here on The Junkies.
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