- 9 hours ago
This week on Below the Line, we actually look at people who are "above the line". Our host and R29 movie critic Anne Cohen talks to directors Hanelle Culpepper and Tessa Blake about what Hollywood looks like after coronavirus, and how they've navigated a difficult industry.
For more on Below The Line click here: https://r29.co/3d2uRGh
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Below the Line is a series where we meet the women in Hollywood behind the scenes making things happen that you don’t normally see on camera.
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For more on Below The Line click here: https://r29.co/3d2uRGh
ABOUT SERIES
Below the Line is a series where we meet the women in Hollywood behind the scenes making things happen that you don’t normally see on camera.
ABOUT REFINERY29
Refinery29 is a modern woman's destination for how to live a stylish, well-rounded life. http://refinery29.com/
RELATED CONTENT
Exclusive Look At Come Swim Directed By Kristen Stewart
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The Good Time Girls Is The Female Western We've Been Waiting For
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Subscribe to the Refinery29 channel: http://bit.ly/subscribe-to-r29
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LifestyleTranscript
00:08Hi everyone! My name is Anne Cohen and I'm a senior entertainment writer and film critic at
00:14Refinery29 and I'm so excited to present our new video series called Below the Line where we're
00:21getting to know the women in Hollywood that you don't usually see on camera. Technically our first
00:27guests are actually above the line but since directors are kind of like the CEOs of the set
00:32I thought we would start with them and kick this off. So I'll introduce our guests. First we have
00:38Tessa Blake who's worked on series like Veronica Mars, CW's Charmed, Riverdale and The Blacklist
00:46and then joining her we have Hanalee Culpepper who's worked on Picard. She was actually the first
00:52woman to launch a Star Trek franchise and she has worked on Criminal Minds and Nosferatu which comes
00:59back in June. So welcome. Thank you. Thanks Anne. Thanks for having us. So I guess we'll jump in.
01:08Tessa I'll start with you. Where are you quarantining right now? Who are you with? I'm at my house in
01:15Los
01:16Angeles. I am with my husband and my daughter and my mini Australian Shepherd who may bark during our
01:23time together. I was in New York working on a show as we shut down and then quickly got back
01:28to LA to
01:29be with the family. What about you Hanalee? So I was in Vancouver working on a pilot when we got
01:36shut
01:37down and I am in Los Angeles with my husband my two children and my niece and uh like Tessa's
01:43dog my
01:44five-year-old Mae wandering so excuse that if it happens. That's fine. We love guests.
01:52Um so Hanalee what were you working on when when you know Hollywood kind of shut down? I was doing
01:59the pilot for CW called Kung Fu. It is a remake except the stars um a wonderful Chinese American woman
02:06and
02:07um we were on day four of shooting when we had to shut down. What are you Tessa? I was
02:16doing an episode
02:17of Bull um a legal procedural for CBS. A show I've done a few times and um and in New
02:24York it was very
02:25intense. I mean the news just changed every day every day every day and we even flew our lead actor
02:30out
02:31from LA on Thursday only to get shut down on Thursday night and fly everybody back out on
02:37Friday. So it was an it was really intense I think it was intense for everybody. Hanalee and I have
02:41discussed a lot of friends who were on the middle of shows like which was very hard to know what
02:47was
02:47about to come. Totally. Oh sorry go ahead. Yeah it's just gonna say like those days leading up to actual
02:56shutdown it just kept changing. I remember getting texts from various directors saying oh they're
03:02telling us we're gonna shut down and I was asking my producers are we gonna shut down and it literally
03:07changed from no you're not because no one's sick to well maybe you should to you're shut down so it
03:13was
03:13it was an intense time. Yeah I remember in the days leading up to like when we finally started working
03:19from home it was like well they can't just close down everything and just we'll work from home for months
03:25and then now it's just like well yeah they can. I think one of the things that I think a
03:35lot of
03:35people don't realize is just how much of a gig economy Hollywood is. I think people see like
03:40celebrities and stars and think that's how everybody lives but you know in reality it's really not like
03:45that. How are you how are you experiencing this shutdown financially? I mean I'm really glad we're
03:52talking about this actually I think it's um it is a huge unknown. I remember when I was coming up
03:58in
03:58the business I I was like oh I remember the first time I really confronted it was with working actors
04:03which were actors who were maybe recognizable to you but were not stars and they they had to make
04:11their living very very hand-to-mouth you know and I started to understand oh this is how it is
04:16for all
04:16of us you have to kind of keep your nuts small um and it is I mean we're lucky in
04:22the DGA and in the
04:23Writers Guild that we have some residual structure that allows for some income to come in when you're
04:29not working and and our guilds have been really forceful at negotiating those structures and I'm
04:34grateful for them because that's what holds you between jobs and at periods of time like this
04:39but nonetheless I haven't I haven't been working in episodic tv as a director for terribly long um
04:47and it's a big deal when I'm not working I'm not earning any income and I'm the you know we're
04:54primary breadwinner in my family so but it's much easier for me with a residual structure than it is for
05:01the crews and I've been in touch with a lot of our crews that we work with and um it's
05:06it's a huge
05:07it's a huge economy that is entirely predicated on showing up every day
05:16yeah
05:21where do you see where do you see this going forward like are you keeping in touch with your
05:24with your crews and like you know kind of moving things forward how do you spend every day
05:29like a year are you still getting any work done
05:32there's a lot of development going on so I still have general meetings I still have pitches yes I do
05:38talk to my crew I mean I talk to my show runners to my writers my producers um you know
05:44as far as
05:45anything that was shooting you really just there's not much you can do until you find out that it's
05:50safe that everyone feels safe to go back to work but otherwise there's a lot of stuff that leads up
05:55to
05:55the production that you can get done and that takes up a lot of time so I'm actually staying
06:00quite busy you don't get paid for any of that unfortunately but uh at least you kind of are
06:06feeding that creative side of you while you're not able to shoot
06:10in fact I think I mean I'm finding it hard to get I'm also a writer as well as a
06:14director and um
06:16Hanalee and I both finished rewrites this week so good job Hanalee
06:21you too thanks um uh it's tough though being uh also being a parent being a working parent
06:31and being a working parent with kids who aren't in school and um just the kind of
06:38day-to-day that all really is it's incredible suddenly being in this episode of little house
06:43on a prairie in on the prairie that's how domestic I am I don't even know the name of that
06:47show little
06:48house on the prairie anyway it's been it's been a heck of a transition I think for working parents
06:55it's very intense and difficult yeah and even on a regular set how do you kind of how do you
07:02try to
07:03help you know facilitate um the situation for working parents when you're in like a regular set
07:11I mean I'm very so in episodic television we're going in as guests as directors and less
07:17for the pilot director or the producing director um as a guest director the extent to which I can
07:23make an impact is by coming in incredibly well planned and executing a really efficient day so
07:31that people can get home to their families and I that matters a lot to me um in general being
07:38a
07:38director who does their homework and who plans a lot um pays dividends because then the creative
07:45vision gets to get to the right place on the screen as opposed to being lost in the process
07:49but I am really mindful that everyone has a family
07:54yes likewise I feel like you know I come in prepared but still flexible to change up as things
08:00change and to be collaborative with the great people you're working with but ultimately you want
08:04to get through that day and get people home if you can get them home you know even half an
08:08hour earlier
08:09so they can maybe have you know dessert with their kids or tuck their kids in they really appreciate that
08:16and as independent filmmakers and Hanalee and I have worked both independently it's it's hard to
08:21incorporate families to a set I don't actually know how to solve for that I know that a lot of
08:26people
08:26are working on that um personally I actually like to have my home and work life separated
08:32um which doesn't mean I wouldn't love some kind of supportive child care circumstance from a policy
08:40perspective I have been on some shows that have set up they even have little nurseries set up especially
08:49those that have a lot of kids on them um so so it really comes from a show runner as
08:55far as tv and
08:56every now and then you come across a place that's that's like that but I whenever I've had my kids
09:02visit
09:02the set has been extremely stressful for me I'm actually happier when they're not there even
09:07though I kind of want to share what I do with them it just oh my gosh she's gonna cry
09:11while we're rolling
09:12she's gonna cry while we're rolling please don't say anything well I think as a director um the demands
09:23do the I do use some maternal skills and directing right like you're paying careful attention to the people
09:31with whom you're working which is what you do with your children too and when your children see that
09:36you're not paying careful attention to them it tends to make them angry and if the cast and crew see
09:42that you're not paying careful attention to them because your kids are there there's a different kind
09:47of strain and my daughter now is older and she's actually a kind of a wonderful presence on set for
09:54me
09:54now and there are pictures I'm sure Annalie has too of like you know the carrying the baby walking
09:59around giving direction while the baby's on your hip and so I'm glad that she's had this exposure to
10:04set her whole life um because it has paid dividends now she can really be around the environment be very
10:10calm but there is a strain I mean it's not perfectly solved just by having child care around
10:17this is definitely you know this is obviously a scary time for Hollywood there's a lot of uncertainty but
10:22it's also a kind of a chance to reset and kind of think about what we want to see in
10:26the future you
10:27know what steps would you like to see taken in Hollywood in terms of inclusion when we get out
10:32of all this I feel like there are so many great programs that Hollywood has developed to really
10:39support people um and to give exposure their names their work so people who are hiring can know who these
10:46people are what I wish that would change is reframing a conversation that agents have with their talent
10:51sometimes there's a you know I don't understand why an agent would tell someone who didn't get a job
10:57that you didn't get it because they only wanted a woman or they only wanted a person of color or
11:02because
11:02you are not either one of those you are not going to be hired because that's absolutely not true you
11:07look
11:07at the statistics everybody is getting hired and I think that instead they just need to tell the person
11:13you didn't get the job because they went with another director they really loved that person's take
11:18they really felt more connected to that person because ultimately that's how you get the job
11:22you get the job because you came in with a great pitch or they really love the vision that you're
11:27sharing and you know nobody's just getting a job strictly because she's a woman or a person of color
11:36I totally echo that and I I will say too I think some of the conversations I've been having
11:41with people in the industry is a concern that as the industry that the conversations around diversity
11:48and inclusion have happened robustly in the last few years I'm very proud of my industry for having
11:56very strong initiatives and conversations around this stuff they've happened at a time of relative
12:00expansion in our industry particularly in television and there is concern that I hear that as the industry
12:09sort of remakes itself after this huge blow that the dominant paradigm will present itself again
12:19I'm not pessimistic I think we have made substantial and meaningful and long-term shifts but I do caution
12:27that we want to be careful as we get back to work to be really inclusive as we do that
12:34yeah you can totally imagine a scenario where like Hollywood kind of just there's fewer resources to go
12:41around and so they prioritize these projects where like it kind of is like a vicious circle where like
12:46you have fewer resources you don't pay people you choose a certain amount of people you don't choose
12:50women you don't choose people of color hopefully that doesn't happen um I mean I think the DNA of our
12:57industry has shifted I I think that there's a really different I don't think we can look at projects again
13:02without looking through the lens of inclusion so I I'm not pessimistic but I am I'm cautiously optimistic
13:13so let's let's talk let's rewind and talk about how you both got into the industry so I guess my
13:19first question is um Hanalee what was your first job my very first job in the industry was as an
13:26intern
13:27as Sony working in research ratings for the syndication department
13:34so I helped them get the numbers they could go sell Seinfeld in uh syndication all over the country
13:43that's cool I didn't know that it's cool to know I've known Hanalee a long time now
13:54um cocktail waitressing um let's see I PA'd a fair amount I worked a lot in um I worked a
14:04ton in
14:04theater I PA'd on set I PA'd in offices um my first grown-up job well I mean I worked
14:13on my own independent
14:14work my first sort of paid by Hollywood not PA job was a writing deal that my husband and I
14:21who are
14:21writing team had with Bad Robot which was um was thrilling and was so thrilling enough but we didn't
14:28even understand what a big get it was we were such idiots we had just come from New York and
14:32we're like
14:32who and what's television and how does this all work and then um anyway we didn't it didn't work out
14:39with them so apparently we didn't do a good job sure that's not true um remember do you remember
14:49what movie or tv show kind of like wanted you know made you want to become a director
14:57yeah for me it wasn't one movie or tv show I actually I came from a family who loved movies
15:03and tv and
15:04watched them all the time and I just knew I wanted to be in the industry as an actress and
15:10so I took this class my senior year that was a directing class because I had auditions and never
15:15was selected and in this class you had to act in someone else's play so I took it to guarantee
15:21myself
15:21an acting class an acting role and um that's how I discovered that actually what I really loved was
15:27directing and um didn't want to do acting I love that's such a Machiavellian story I love how you're
15:35like I'm gonna guarantee an acting role by taking a directing class it's so good um I weirdly similar
15:43actually which is to say like I've I've every movie from the 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s I mean
15:50I just
15:50like as soon as my mother and I watched a ton of movies together and um I didn't even really
15:56realize how much storytelling I was ingesting from like the early HBO and AMC and all the you know
16:04Turner classics um uh but I think for me it was just storytelling and I also pursued acting for a
16:10period of time and then um like kind of overnight went from being a very grumpy actress to a very
16:16happy director just instantly clear that I was better suited bossing people around than being bossed around
16:28um how did you get into tv what did you always want to go to tv as a medium and
16:32what about it
16:33kind of spoke to you Hanalee we started with you I always wanted to do both I wanted to do
16:39tvs and
16:39movies and I basically looked at which one can I break in easier easier easily I guess that's a good
16:47word but anyway um and so I picked features because you can make your own feature right tv you had
16:53to go
16:54through a gatekeeper and that's the reason why I started off with features but I always wanted to
16:58do both I didn't I didn't think of tv as um an accessible form for me actually it just seemed
17:09in a similar way like I saw features you could if you could raise the money you could make it
17:14you know the the target was broad your ability to get in it was your own in a sense um
17:21and I think
17:21this actually speaks to gender which is to say that you know statistically we see that women are
17:27excellent and successful in entrepreneurial positions and being an independent filmmaker is
17:33effectively an entrepreneurial job right um women have a much harder time once there are gatekeepers
17:39towards a Hanalee point and I I had an independent feature film that premiered at South by and was
17:44released theatrically and sort of made a fair amount of noise and splash and uh I had a round of
17:49agent
17:50meetings in LA and I they said what do you want to do and I was like well you don't
17:54get better at
17:55directing unless you're directing a lot and the one place you direct a lot is television and to a number
18:00this was some time ago but to a number they looked at me and they went oh you're not gonna
18:05be able to
18:06do that flat out I mean the gatekeepers just went nope not a door you can come through you're not
18:14you can't come through this and I think it was you know an unconscious bias this was a long enough
18:19time
18:19ago that there were only like eight percent female directors in television and the women who were
18:23directing in television had come up on those shows typically um though there were some outside
18:29directors but so few that they just looked at me and you were like you don't look like a director
18:34you don't look like a director for television so I built a career as a writer for television and then
18:39was able to after a lot of hard work and persistence and support from friends and um make the pivot
18:45to being
18:48bulls yeah and it's the story you hear so often that like even when women have this huge success
18:53with their first film um I'm thinking of like Patty Jenkins for example with Monster and then you know
18:59the the challenge is getting a second movie is to get you somebody to hire you like for a second
19:04bigger project so you can continue directing mm-hmm or Kimberly Mears
19:10go ahead well there are extraordinary examples like that everywhere and and that plays all the way
19:17through to people who you know like we can't all make an extraordinary film like Kim Pierce or Patty
19:23Jenkins but we've all I mean Hanalee has made films I've made you know most of the women we know
19:28who
19:28working in the field have made their own independent features which have done well
19:32and if we looked differently that doing well would mean a different um professional move to the next
19:41level and women typically haven't been able to make that same move with the same alacrity as their male
19:48colleagues have you I mean you talked before of um you said that somebody they told you didn't look like
19:55a director um a television director a television director but did you feel pressure I mean when
20:03you were starting out and I even now do you feel pressure to like look a certain way to act
20:07a certain
20:07way to speak a certain way to be taken seriously as a woman um to some extent yeah I mean
20:16part of it
20:16though I just try to go from the more sincere rather the inside out rather than the outside in which
20:21is to say like if I'm really super I'm really good at what I do I have a very strong
20:26vision um I'm
20:28relatively good at communicating that vision in a way that it can be metabolized by my colleagues around
20:33me um if I'm really well prepared I've got nothing to prove um do I wear heels on set no
20:43but I know some
20:44women who do and I think that's a great choice um I feel like we work in a construction zone
20:50so it's like
20:51steel tip boots for me but um but I am aware of gender there are times where I made much
20:57more aware
20:58of gender and I not very recently on a set actually somebody said what are you doing here and then
21:05before I could stop them they ran through the list of like guest star which is flattering um makeup person
21:15I mean all of which are noble and honorable jobs it's just not the job I was there to do
21:19and you know and then I got to the end of the list and I was like no actually I'm
21:23directing the episode
21:24and they were like I had those moments too I went in on a show I won't say what show
21:32but I went on a
21:33Saturday to do blocking and I was on the set and I was sitting on one of the the chairs
21:41on the set and
21:43doing my blocking and stuff and the uh construction guy said don't you can't sit on the chairs get off
21:50the chair knowing you cannot sit on those chairs and I was like okay fine I knew he didn't know
21:54who
21:55I was but I just got off the chair and I don't feel like getting into that kind of I
21:58didn't want to get
21:58into it and then that Monday he was like I am so sorry I didn't know you were a director
22:03I thought
22:04you were a script supervisor if I had known you were the director I never would have said that
22:08and I was just thinking hey script supervisors don't come in on Saturdays to block so like the
22:14fact that I was doing a director's job but he thought I was a script supervisor I just found
22:19very surprising um so anyway yeah I we get we get that a lot how do we're not assumed to
22:28be the
22:28director when we walk in the door that's true we're just not assumed in most cases there are some
22:33environments like for example I just recently did a Riverdale they have so many women directing
22:37Riverdale that you are assumed to be the director when you walk in the door it was really refreshing
22:44that's cool that is cool Riverdale our readers love Riverdale
22:52what's not to love um what how do you set the tone how do you set the tone on set
22:57kind of you know
22:58if you're not assumed to be the director when you walk in how do you kind of make clear that
23:04you're in charge and this is your set um what's your what's your kind of managerial technique
23:10I don't think I walk in and feel like I need to make it clear I'm the director I just
23:14come on set
23:15and start doing my job and I say you know good morning to everybody and you know at some point
23:20they will see that I'm going to call a rehearsal uh so they haven't figured it out by then then
23:25you
23:25know they they'll know at that point but I feel like the best thing is to come in and say
23:29good
23:30morning to everybody to be prepared so that you starting that first you can do that first set up
23:35and they're impressed because they see that wow she knows what she wants she can tell us what she wants
23:42I also talk to my camera operators and I say you know even though I've blocked it I have a
23:47shot guide
23:48not a shot list I call it a shot guide um and I say you know I'm very open if
23:53you see something that's
23:54cooler or better please feel free to talk to me so I immediately let them know that I'm also
23:59collaborative and I hope that that uh you know to me that's the way I like to set my tone
24:03that I come
24:04prepared but flexible and collaborative and friendly and accessible I tell them you know I tell everybody
24:11like I try to meet you if I don't meet you please introduce yourself to me please feel free to
24:16come up
24:16and talk to me like I hate that kind of she's the director I can't talk to her vibe that
24:21you get
24:22sometimes on sex yeah totally agree and I will actually say Hanalee said something to me a few
24:29years ago which really helped me um which is she said all all the stuff like we are friendly we
24:36are
24:36prepared we're accessible we're collaborative you know we we come in with a point of view um but Hanalee
24:43who said this thing to me that I'll always remember which was like and not everyone's gonna like us
24:50and that's not the job you know and I found that really a tremendous relief like my job is not
24:57for
24:57everyone to like me my job is to deliver a fabulous episode and I do that with as much care
25:05for the
25:06people I'm working with as I possibly can but my job is not to make you like me Hanalee taught
25:12me that
25:16I was taught that by the director
25:20see speaking of you two you've known each other for a while and you've been giving each other advice
25:25clearly what do you you know what is the community like between women directors and tv um and how do
25:32you
25:32support each other it's fabulous I feel so lucky to be coming up at this time we had great women
25:39in front
25:40of us you know Leslie Lincoln Glatter and Mimi Leder and Jamie Babbitt and computer you know all these
25:46women who were directing ahead of us and I've missed a million names um but those are the some of
25:52the
25:52people who Karin Kusama who who I got to talk to who made a big difference to me Bethany Rooney
25:57Mary Lou
25:58Ballet and then in this sort of cohort of women we're really close many of us though not exclusively but
26:05we
26:05are bound by the directing workshop for women at the American Film Institute which Hanalee and I both
26:10went to and um some of our dear friends and colleagues but really like even women I've never
26:16met before I have no other connection to if I see that you know we all I reach out to
26:20the director
26:21before me on an episode of television and the person coming behind me on an episode of television and
26:26I try to get a coffee so that I can hear what the environment is on set and so that
26:30I can give away
26:31some help to the person coming behind me male female I don't care um interestingly though the
26:36women always respond the men sometimes don't um but we I have felt a tremendous generosity of spirit
26:44and connection I feel a real sense of community I feel very supported by the DGA the women at the
26:50DGA
26:51so I I couldn't feel more grateful for the time I mean I wish I were had been working sooner
26:57because I'm broke but um and because it was so so hard to break in it's so so so hard
27:04to break in um
27:06uh that being said I feel so welcomed by the women with whom I had the opportunity to work
27:11and communicate and collaborate with I just feel blessed
27:17yeah I agree I see Tessa you said it so well um yeah the ladies the seven other women who
27:25did AFIDWW
27:27with me we are still close friends to this day and um I do feel like um I don't feel
27:36a competition with
27:37my other tv female tv directors and my direct like the people of color as well who are directing
27:45um you just feel ultimate you feel joy whenever anyone has a success because anyone's success also
27:52opens that door a little bit more for everybody else um I mean yeah sure you feel a little jealous
27:58you're like oh I wanted to do that one but you also just feel a lot of joy and um
28:04yeah and it's a
28:06wonderful environment well that's a wonderful place to end this I think we're out of time
28:13but thank you so much for joining me um and thank you so much for watching
28:18thanks thanks for having us bye
28:38so