- 3 days ago
Actress Taylor Polidore Williams on how Clark Atlanta University gave her a voice, and what it takes to become the person you needed when you were young.
Hosts Sandy Pierre and Kathleen Newman-Bremang sit down with the Beauty in Black and Reasonable Doubt star to talk about her time at CAU, the ambition she doesn’t regret, and the mentors and family who got her here.
“The experience of going to an HBCU is like no other, just because I think it’s one of the only places in the world literally where your race isn’t a factor.”
They get into fighting for internships, working their way up, and realizing you’re no longer the babygirl in the room. Taylor also shares what she’s building now through the Shelter Rock Foundation, including a new housing scholarship for three media arts students at Clark Atlanta.
Created in partnership with Target.
Hosts Sandy Pierre and Kathleen Newman-Bremang sit down with the Beauty in Black and Reasonable Doubt star to talk about her time at CAU, the ambition she doesn’t regret, and the mentors and family who got her here.
“The experience of going to an HBCU is like no other, just because I think it’s one of the only places in the world literally where your race isn’t a factor.”
They get into fighting for internships, working their way up, and realizing you’re no longer the babygirl in the room. Taylor also shares what she’s building now through the Shelter Rock Foundation, including a new housing scholarship for three media arts students at Clark Atlanta.
Created in partnership with Target.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Go Off Sis is brought to you by Target. You can leave the yard, but the yard doesn't leave you.
00:04The lessons, the people, the community, it all comes with you. Target is helping that legacy
00:09keep growing one opportunity at a time. Sis, sis, welcome back to Go Off Sis. You have no idea how
00:18excited we are to be back on the mic with you. Of course, I'm Kathleen, the Senior Content Director
00:23of Entertainment at Refinery29, and I got to introduce you to my good sis, Sandy. Sandy,
00:28what's up? Sisters, we are back. I am excited to be here. I am Sandy, the Branded Execution Manager
00:36at Unbothered, and we're about to get into some things. I'm so excited, y'all. I cannot wait.
00:42This is a good episode. So today we're kicking off this conversation with a very special guest
00:46and rounding out the conversation with just me and Sandy Kiki-ing as we do and taking some time
00:51to talk about that moment when you realize, wait a minute, I'm the mentor now? And, you know,
00:56everyone gets to that point in their careers, and so we're so excited to break that down.
01:00Sandy, who do we got joining us today?
01:02I'm excited, y'all, because I'm a fan of this guest. So today we are joined by someone who
01:07knows a thing or two about making her own way. Actress, advocate, and proud Clark Atlanta
01:12University alumni, Taylor Polidor Williams. Oh my God, oh my God. I'm so excited to have her here.
01:19You've probably seen her lighting up the screen as Kimmy in Netflix Beauty and in Black,
01:24and she's taken that talent to Reason Without for its upcoming fourth season
01:27as Brooke Cropper. But Taylor's story doesn't stop at the credits. Through the Shelter Rock Foundation,
01:33she's creating real opportunities for foster youth and Black communities, including a housing
01:38scholarship and a mentorship program with Clark Atlanta University, helping students navigate
01:43the very challenges she once knew firsthand. From the HBCU that helped shape her to the doors
01:49she's opening for the next generation. Taylor is proof that sometimes the best thing you can do
01:53with the seat you've earned is to make sure that someone else can have that seat too.
01:57Taylor, welcome to Go Off, sis. Thank you for having me.
02:01No, we're so excited. I'm a fan. So like, I'm like ready to kiki. I feel like we're home
02:05girls already. Let's kiki. Let's do it.
02:09Taylor, thank you so much for being here. We're so excited to have you. And today we're talking
02:14about the lessons we had to learn the hard way, the ones we definitely wish somebody had warned us
02:18about. And the things that we know now that have us like, girl, why did nobody tell me this?
02:24And now that we've been on the other side of a few of those lessons, what does it actually look
02:28like to show up for the next woman to leave the door open and pour forward what was poured into
02:32us?
02:33So wherever you're listening from, turn us up, get comfortable. We're about to get into it.
02:39We love to start Go Off, sis, with a little kickoff question. And I love this one. I actually don't
02:43know Sandy's answer to this. I feel like I know a lot about you, Sandy, but I don't know what
02:47you're
02:47going to say to this. And I'm so excited. And Taylor, I can't wait to hear your answer.
02:50So if you could write a letter to your college self, what's one thing you would share? Something
02:55that you had to learn through trial and error? Oh, to my college self, that girl, that girl,
03:04that girl, you know, it's actually a message that I found years later, but I wish I would have found
03:11it in college. It came from Tabitha Brown, actually. Love Tabitha Brown. But in one of
03:19her books, and it's funny. So for context, I was in LA, had just moved there, poor, dirt
03:27broke, trying to, you know, put things together. I'm auditioning. I'm living the dream. I was
03:32very happy. But obviously my parents were like, girl, you have a college degree. What are,
03:38what's happening here? Maybe law school, maybe law school. And my mom sent me an LSAT book and I
03:44would keep it on my nightstand to remind me like, this is not what I want to do. But I
03:50know that she
03:51just wanted me to be okay. And through this process, she sends me, she read Tabitha Brown's book and she
03:56sends it to me and she was like, oh my gosh, I apologize. You are an artist and you need
04:01to focus
04:02on being an artist and you will be okay. God is with you. You will be okay. And I promise
04:08you
04:08that gave me the, the ammo in my back to be like, oh, it's fine. My mom says I'm good.
04:16But in the book, Tabitha Brown said that the vision that you have for your life, the vision that you
04:22were given was given to you and you alone. And much like when somebody has on glasses,
04:29you have your prescription, they have their prescription. And just because they can't
04:33see what you see, doesn't mean that your vision is wrong. Doesn't mean that what you're, what
04:38you're thinking and what you're desiring is wrong. They just don't have the same prescription as you.
04:43So you got to keep going. Cause it was really back then it would really bother me if other people
04:48didn't believe in me, like how I believe in me. And I wish I would have developed that confidence
04:54or that self validation back then. Cause that would have just speeded up a lot of heartache,
05:00but I would have, I would give myself that then. I love that. I needed to hear that. And there's
05:05definitely people listening that needed to hear that. That is good advice. Also, we love Tabitha
05:10Brown, friend of the pod. Sandy, a letter to your college self. I guess I would say not to rush
05:16the process because just because one door closes doesn't mean another one won't open. I feel like I was
05:22so quick to get that opportunity. And if I didn't get it, a next one wouldn't come. Just telling
05:28myself, calm down a little bit, just cause it's just, just, you know, it's all right. Another
05:33opportunity will come. You don't always have to take the first one or you don't have to be super
05:38disappointed just cause you didn't get the first one. Another one will come. Cause I was just,
05:42I was feeling, I was just trying to just be in everything. Yeah. What's for you won't miss you.
05:47Right. Exactly. Yeah. I love that. Um, for me, it's just, I mean, I think it's just girl. Remember
05:55who you are. I was so, I did not have confidence back then. And like, what, why? Like if I'm
06:04not
06:04going to be in my own corner, who is, and I think I would go back and just tell her
06:08you gotta, you gotta
06:10stand up for yourself. You gotta believe in yourself. And if not you, who? Period. Period.
06:16I just, she needed, she needed a little pat on the back and a, and a mirror. And it'd be
06:20like,
06:20girl, you a bad bitch. Remember it. Imagine if she saw you now, if she saw you now, that would
06:28be
06:29out the window. I'm glad we're talking about mentorship. Cause I always, I always say that
06:33now I'm like, I wish I had a me when I was like growing up. How beautiful is that? That
06:37you became
06:38the person you needed. I know. Right. I did pretty well. I'm proud of myself. So I'm going to kick
06:44it
06:44off to, you know, one of my guilty favorite shows right now that I'm still binge watching Beauty and
06:50Black. After landing your role as Kimmy on Beauty and in Black, you've spoken about letting your
06:55character grow into her new reality rather than forcing the transformation. Do you feel like you've
06:59had a similar experience in your own career growing into like new versions of yourself instead of
07:04having to have it all figured out at once? I would say actually, yes. I think much to what
07:11we were just talking about, like when I was younger or like, um, in my early twenties, it felt like
07:16I
07:17got to go hard every single opportunity, everything I need to, I need to take full advantage, which to an
07:22extent is true. Cause I think some things you only learn through experience, some things you only know,
07:29like, oh, I probably shouldn't have done that because you, you did it. So I don't regret the
07:34ambitious ambition that I had back then, but I think much like, um, wanting Kimmy to transition
07:43into, into that power, like you said right now, I feel like, um, the goal is more like specificity
07:51in, in, in my journey. Um, I think I am at a point where I know who I am fully,
07:59completely. I love
08:00myself. I know myself and it's, um, still having that same hunger and ambition, but from the lens of
08:11this doesn't align with me or this really does. So I can apply that here is just being more specific
08:17about things. So I guess it is more of a slow transition. It feels slow sometimes, but I guess
08:24it's more accurate with the pace and intentional. Yes. A hundred percent, a hundred percent more
08:32intentional. Well, I just want to ask as someone who's very behind, but I'm, I'm working my way
08:37through it and it's so fun. It's so wild. What is the number one thing that you hear from fans
08:44of that
08:45show? Oh gosh. Um, well, definitely when I go out now, people call me Kimmy, um, Kimmy, Kimmy,
08:54Kimmy, uh, on social media, I could post a picture of my dog and they're like, but Kimmy,
08:59the, what happened with this? And I'm like, yo, this is, I don't know. It's, I don't know what's
09:06happening next. Whatever is in the mind of Tyler Perry. Um, but I think, you know, it, it makes me
09:12feel
09:12good that people are watching it all over the world and that's mind blowing. And the fact that
09:18they are invested in the characters and what's going on. So they say all kinds of things about,
09:23about the show, but definitely calling me Kimmy. I could be at the grocery store, the Chick-fil-A line.
09:29They're like, are you Kimmy? I can't. That is hilarious. I'd probably do that to you if I see Kimmy,
09:36Kimmy, that's you girl. So you talked about using everything from Kimmy's wardrobe to
09:40fragrance to help you step into the confidence. What's something outside of the script that helps
09:45you step into a new version of yourself? Hmm. Um, you know, with every character,
09:52it's a little bit different, whatever kind of provides like that in, into the world. But I
09:58think for, for any characters, a big tool that I'll use is journaling. You journal in character?
10:05Yes. So I journal as a person, but I started doing that with characters because, you know,
10:12when I get a script, I'm, I'm receiving a slice of their life and I'm like, I need to know
10:18who is
10:18this person before we meet them. So I'll read it and I'll ask myself questions and then I'll get a
10:25little notebook or a journal and I'll answer like, okay, maybe at this point in their life,
10:31this happened. So I'll journal like that day just to give myself like memories and a life that they
10:36have, um, to make them just a human being and make it real to me. Kimmy has come a long
10:43way.
10:44Hasn't she? This season is insane. It is so explosive. I'm like, how can it get any crazier
10:51than the past ones? Oh my God. I am a part of Jax's firm's new case. Um, one of her
10:59big clients,
11:00Eric Cropper, who's this R&B mobile mastermind, which is played by the amazing tank. Um, and I am
11:07his wife and we are going through a nasty divorce and that's all I can say.
11:13Oh, this is going to be juicy.
11:15I'm like, what? No, I'm excited. And I just want to tell you personally, like, I'm so proud of you.
11:21I've watched you on homecoming now being black now going to reasonable doubt. I'm like, my girl is
11:27getting it. So super, super excited. Of course.
11:30Yes. We love to see it. And you know what that all, I mean, you tell me that all started
11:36at your
11:36time at Clark Atlanta. So we're going to go back there and tell me what you found at Clark that
11:41you
11:41didn't even know that you were looking for. And that set you up to where you are now in your
11:45career. You know, it did all really start at Clark, but I will say that I started acting as a
11:54teenager
11:55back home in Houston. I was acting as a child. I always say I was not a child star, but
12:00I was a
12:00child actor. That still counts.
12:04Yeah. Like I wanted to be Raven Simone, Raven Simone, yay. As Kiki Palmer says, she was the
12:09girl and I wanted that. Like, and I knew after my first feature film that I was in, Welcome
12:17Home, Roscoe Jenkins, going on set, seeing a film being made, I was like, oh, this is what
12:23I want to do for the rest of my life. So it was a very conscious decision that I chose
12:30Clark
12:30Atlanta University because my parents took me on a two week college road trip. I knew I wanted to go
12:37to an HBCU. And when we got to Atlanta, I was like, I'm going here. I'm going, this is my
12:42school.
12:42This is my school. And CAU was the first place where I met with the department heads and like the
12:49mass media department. And they were like, what do you want to do? And I was like, well, I'm already
12:53an actress, but I want to learn how to make movies. I want to learn how to write. I want
13:00to learn how
13:00to produce. And they were like, we can teach you how to do all of that here. And it was
13:04the first
13:05time where my ambition wasn't looked at as well, slow down, you know, maybe not so much. They were
13:12like, you can do all of it. And then, um, so I applied and I got a full ride academic
13:16scholarship.
13:17So it was like, easy. I was like, I'm going to CAU. I'm going to be a filmmaker. I'm going
13:22to be
13:22acting. And at the time this was 2011. So Tyler Perry studios was there, but it hadn't quite
13:30turned into Hollywood of the South as, as it soon became after like shortly after. So
13:35like, I often think about, I made the decision, but it was kind of just destiny because while
13:42I was in college, I was able to take advantage of a very growing and thriving, uh, television
13:49and film economy, like there was such a huge boom of productions coming because of tax credits.
13:55So while I was in school, I was auditioning. I was able to get some co-star roles, start
14:00like building my resume so that when I did transition to LA, I, I was already in the union.
14:06I already had recurring roles and you know, that's just a God destiny thing too, but it did
14:14start at school making films with friends. I just wanted any opportunity to act. And,
14:21you know, I look up and those same friends that I was just doing this thing with and building
14:26community with, they're now executives at Netflix, they're executives at Tyler Perry studios, signing
14:32my checks there. You know, I was making internet videos with Desi Banks before he became Desi Banks
14:39and watching him at DC Young Fly practice their comedy at free comedy shows. You just had to buy
14:45wings. Like all of that was beautiful. The AUC experience for me because I was in the film
14:52industry while I was in school. Oh, that's so dope. So fortunately, you know, I did not attend one,
14:57but I love hearing the stories. I've gone to homecomings. It's a lit time. So I, I can attest that
15:03like, there is definitely a community and speaking of community, just, I wanted to hear from you how
15:09being surrounded by your CAU community helped shape the way, you know, you found your voice as
15:16a creative and an advocate. It's such a huge part of what has helped me find my voice, the confidence,
15:25experience. Um, the experience of going to an HBCU is like no other, just because I think it's one of
15:33the only places in the world where your race literally isn't a factor. Um, so that is so special
15:42though, you know, and I think, so growing up, I grew up in a predominantly white area. I mean,
15:48I'm from Houston, Texas, but I grew up in Katie, which is a suburb of Houston. So even though I
15:54grew up
15:54in a family, my fourth generation Texan and all my family's from Houston, when I would go to school,
16:01it was a very different experience than like on weekends with my family or going to church in the
16:04city or even where I started acting, taking acting classes in Houston. And I developed that work ethic
16:11because of my family and, and those experiences, but going to school or being in predominantly white
16:17areas, there were microaggressions that I would deal with that I didn't even know were microaggressions.
16:22I just, it was just a part of the experience, but going to see a U, all that was off
16:29the table,
16:30but it was beautiful to see how different we all are. So I think what it gave me was the
16:36opportunity.
16:37I wasn't being judged for being black. We all are that. So it's like, what do, what,
16:42what is your perspective? What do you think about this? And I could explore all of that in a very
16:49safe
16:49environment. And I think coming out of it, it gave me the community, which is huge. The, the community
16:57of the people who I went to school with, I'm also an AKA, and that was very formative to my
17:03time at
17:03CAU as well. The people I met through there and the sisters I have around the world now. But when
17:09I feel
17:09like you, you know yourself and you've had the experience to kind of come into your own and try
17:14things out and fail and having professors be like, you can do better than that, that, that type of
17:22refinement. It lets you come into the world with, you know, I might face all these different things,
17:27but I know in this community I'm seen and I know what it feels like to be appreciated, to be
17:33validated.
17:33I know how I feel and I know my perspective and yeah, it's just, it continues to, to, to, I
17:42reap the
17:42benefits all the time. Ooh. And that's so, it's so important to build a foundation when you were young
17:47to have that community and to have that support as you're mentioning. And a big part of that is
17:53someone saying your name in a room that you're not in. Do you remember a moment when someone did that
18:00or someone in your community was able to believe in you and put you forth when, when you weren't
18:05there? You know, it's funny. I can, I have never actually experienced a mentor in the way of, um,
18:14I am your mentee. You're my mentor. Yeah. Yeah. In the traditional sense. I always, that was a big
18:20thing that they talked about at my time at CAU. And I would ask people because I was, I was
18:25all over the
18:25place. I was very ambitious. I was like, can I get your email? Can I do this? I was very,
18:29hungry. But I think because of those experiences, I started seeking mentorship in books and watching
18:35interviews, like just in studying people and trying to, to, to gain whatever wisdom I could
18:42from situations. But if I look back on it, people were always speaking my name in rooms that I didn't
18:48know. And maybe they, they were mentors. It just wasn't a, a formal situation like that. I think
18:56even like when I think of like my career, uh, we self tape auditions a lot as actors. And so
19:04maybe
19:04I'm not having like that interpersonal, uh, conversation or experience with a casting director,
19:10but, uh, two specific casting directors come to mind, Kim Coleman and Leah Daniels Butler,
19:16two amazing black women casting directors who cast some wonderful projects. And you think like,
19:22like, Oh, I'm just sending in this tape, sending in this tape, but they are advocates and champions
19:27for you. And then when you look up and get a role, they're like, I wanted that for you so
19:31bad. It's like, I had no idea. So I think maybe that has sprinkled along the way in my journey
19:38all along people who, who do want you to win and they bring you up somewhere. And anytime I'm able
19:45to close the loop and thank them, I do, but sometimes we don't even know that people are
19:51bringing you up. I know, which is the most amazing part. Like the fact that people are saying your
19:55name when you don't even know. Um, was there like any piece of advice that like stuck with you
20:02throughout like your early career into now that you think about like all the time, like something
20:07someone has told you, whether it's like a mentor, a family member, anyone in your family where you're
20:11like, I say this to myself every time because it's stuck with me.
20:17I feel like I'm the sum of a lot of people's advice, but one particular thing that comes to mind.
20:25Um, I had a professor in college, Dr. Eichelberger, Dr. E, and he was actually, or is, he's still alive,
20:35thank God, but he, um, is one of Spike Lee's mentors. And I remember that I was, I was filming
20:44this like pilot project in my senior year of college. And I like was about to make a petition
20:51because a lot of my teachers were like, you need to be in class or your grades are going to
20:55suffer.
20:55And I'm like, I'm working. I'm working. I was like, would you do this? If a business major or a
21:01biology major had a paid internship somewhere, why, why this is what my degree is in. My degree is in
21:07film. Why can I not go on set and use that? You know, I still want to take my test.
21:13I just need you
21:13to work with me. And Dr. E was like, go to work. The only way to do what you're trying
21:20to do is to do
21:21it, to make the film, to act. And he, for my final project, he let me show the pilot.
21:27So he was amazing, but that's, that's actually a piece of advice that I've heard from multiple
21:32people. If you want to act, act, which means find every opportunity to act. And I think work
21:39begets work. The one thing will follow into the one thing. And I think you can kind of use that
21:44everywhere. Be the thing that you want to be. Nobody's going to give you permission. Just start it.
21:50Be that, be that thing. No, that's so true. Cause as hard as it may seem, it's really simple.
21:57If you just do it, just do the thing. Do it scared. That's such good advice. And it's also,
22:02yeah, it applies to, to writing. I can, it can apply to so many things. It's like,
22:06you want to be a writer, right? You want to be an actor act. And I also love, I think
22:10that's so
22:10important to have professors who see that in you and aren't just like rigid in like a lot of the
22:16times
22:16institutions are super rigid and how they teach and how they, um, tell us how do we, how we do
22:23things and, and, and not really setting us up for the actual careers we want to get into. It's about
22:29a test or whatever. And it's like, are you not, are we not here for me to become what I'm
22:34trying to
22:34become? And so I love that that professor, yeah, I love that that professor did that for you.
22:40I haven't been in school in so long, but I'm hoping now that professors are more teaching
22:45like the reality of like what life is going to be like, and not just like, so by the book.
22:50Cause
22:50I think about me going to college. I'm like, I can't even remember like why I even went or what
22:55I learned. Thankfully I'm still working in my major, but other than that, I'm like, I just wish
23:00they kept it real with me. Like what's really, what am I really going to be going through?
23:04I feel like to have a, to work consistently in that field, there does have to be a level of
23:12like
23:13just that grit. Oh yeah. Which school can't really give you. Yeah, that's true. And you know,
23:21you kind of the clawing. Like I was. Yeah. By any means. I was like, I was volunteering. I was
23:29doing
23:29things I had no business doing, just trying to get in the door. Oh, I had an internship
23:34doing PR. I had an internship doing that. I was just doing things. Doing. I was like,
23:39I'll get you coffee. My, my degrees in journalism. And yeah, I was just, I remember I went to a
23:45professor because they weren't going to let me do this internship. I wanted to intern at
23:50much music. I'm Canadian. It's like the Canadian MTV. And that's what I, where I wanted to be.
23:54It was like the one place I was like, I want to work in music television. I want to be
23:58an
23:58entertainment journalist and they weren't going to let me do this internship. And so I went to it,
24:04but I needed a signature from a professor. And I remember I went to one of my professors
24:08and I begged, I like, it was like his off hours too. He was like eating lunch. And I just
24:14went in
24:14and I said, please, please sign this. He's like, the university is not going to let me sign this.
24:19And I was like, I'm telling you, this is what I wanted to do. Similar to what you're saying,
24:23Taylor was like, I was like, I'm going to be in the building doing the job I want to do.
24:27Is that
24:27not the point of this? And then I finally, I finally got him to sign it.
24:31Yeah. I mean, I, I, I also don't know where I would be if I didn't do that. There's so
24:36many
24:37things when you think back to, you know, our time at school that it's like, you made that decision.
24:41And then it, so many decisions came from that. And so, yeah. And then it's as much as I did
24:48not
24:48believe in myself, then I definitely knew exactly what I wanted to do. So I was like, I don't really
24:52have the confidence, but I know I need to go learn some things. So let me go learn them.
24:56And look at you now, girl. Right. Um, I want to talk about the shelter rock foundation,
25:02because when we talk about giving back and mentorship, you were doing that through this
25:07foundation. So just first set it up for us. Tell me more about it. Yeah. So, um, I founded the
25:13shelter rock foundation, uh, last year, um, because I've been a court appointed special advocate for
25:21youth and foster care for many years, um, helping all things, children, all things, young people
25:27is just part of one of my life's purposes. Um, I think that is the only way to a future
25:36that,
25:37that they deserve is to pour into the next generation, particularly young people in vulnerable
25:43situations. Um, my grandmother was a foster parent for majority of my childhood. So I was very
25:49knowledgeable and knew about the child welfare system. Um, and I became a CASA, uh, when I became
25:57an adult, but, um, as my career started to grow, I wasn't able to serve as a CASA in the
26:03same way,
26:04like going to the young person's house, picking them up, taking them to theater camp. Like I couldn't
26:11do it quite in the same way. So I finished out my last case. Thankfully, my young person got adopted.
26:16It was, it was a very like happy note because not, not all the situations are happy, but I was
26:21like,
26:22I want to be able to take the experiences that I had and help in a larger way, more than
26:28just like
26:29donating money. I want to create experiences. I want to kind of have boots on the ground. What are
26:35the needs that young people need? And so the foundation naturally came about, but we recently launched
26:43a housing scholarship in partnership with Clark Atlanta university. Um, right now they're having
26:48amazing record numbers of attendance, which is putting a strain on housing. So I was like, okay,
26:55how can we help? And, uh, we are, uh, providing three mass media arts upperclassmen students, um,
27:04with a hundred percent housing covered, as well as a mentorship program, matching them with mentors
27:10in kind of the field or the, the way that they're trying to go. And it culminates with a capstone
27:16project that hopefully they can show to, to getting those jobs that they want. If, if they
27:22want to act, maybe it's getting into a showcase of some sort. If they want to write, write the film,
27:28let's make the film. Like let's do, you know, just having kind of that guidance to have an actual
27:32product. You want to get into PR, take a young person at school, a classmate who's rapping or
27:38something and create a campaign. Let's get them some shows. Like I know that much of my college
27:45experience, I was doing the thing. And luckily because I had a full ride scholarship, I didn't
27:52have a lot of financial stress. I mean, there's always things that you could pay for, but I was,
27:57I was okay in terms of the security of where I was living. And I couldn't imagine in this economy,
28:03how expensive things are. If I was thinking how, where am I going to live? You don't have time to
28:08be creative in that, in those types of environments. So we're just helping three right now, but I would
28:13love to help many, many more. That's kind of where we are. I had like a full body chills as
28:18you were
28:18talking, because it's such a beautiful thing to take your experience, to take what you've done and
28:25then be like, I need to pour that back into the next generation. And also, especially for creatives,
28:32especially for creatives, like now I could go off about how we just need to be funding the arts
28:37and how all the billionaires and rich people now they don't pour back into the arts like they should
28:42be, because it does free you up so much when you're not thinking about housing, you're not thinking about
28:48food, you're not thinking about hustling at your part-time job when you can just create and you can
28:54just learn and you can just be, and it just makes such a difference. So you're doing incredible
29:00work, sis. That's just, I just want to give you the flowers for that. Thank you so much. I just
29:06feel
29:06like that's part of life. Like we have to help. We have to help and we have to help in
29:14the communities
29:14that we have access to right now. And I think, um, it was crazy. I, Aaron Brockovich is one of
29:21my
29:21favorite movies and I was on, uh, yes, I was on a plane and I'm sitting next to a woman.
29:28We're
29:28talking, we're laughing. And she's like, well, what's your name? I was like, I'm Taylor. And, um,
29:32she was, she found out that I was in the industry and she's like, Oh, what do you do? We're
29:35talking.
29:36And she was like, I know a lot of people in the industry. And she was like, they made a
29:39movie
29:39about me. And I was like, Oh, what, what movie? And she was like, uh, Aaron Brockovich. I said,
29:44are you Aaron Brockovich? She was like, nice to meet you. I'm Aaron. I was like,
29:51and basically she has a book and she was talking about, uh, the wizard of Oz analogy and that no
29:56one is coming to save us. We save us. Each person, one person, our civic duty, helping your neighbor,
30:05knowing your neighbor, knowing your community. And if we all did that, imagine the world and how it
30:11would be. So you use what you have and you help when you can. Like, I really believe that.
30:17And that's the power of HBCUs too. Like that community, like the fact that you're doing it
30:22back with, uh, Clark is, it's all full circle. It is. That's amazing. Being that you have this
30:28foundation and you're helping the woman coming back, coming up behind you or just like in general,
30:33what's something that you had to like figure out or like fight for on your own that you're determined
30:38to like make easier for the woman behind you?
30:40You know, I feel like I'm actually learning some of those things right now or, or I'm,
30:46I'm in process of that right now. I know that I stand on the shoulders of many women,
30:52the experiences that they've had. I'm able to do things in the way that I'm doing them because
30:57of the things that they fought for. Yeah. And speaking of reasonable doubt, Megan Good is on this
31:03season. And, uh, Megan and I were in a film together, Divorced in the Black a few years ago.
31:11And we were able to catch up a couple of weeks ago. We went to lunch and I mean, she's
31:15somebody I grew
31:16up watching. Megan has, Megan has been good. Like she's, Megan been good. A legend. She's a legend.
31:22She's a legend. I love her. And we're talking about things. And she was like, it's never about
31:29the, um, the destination of where we as, as Black women are going. It's about the journey and the
31:36process because in the process and the fight that we have to go on the journey, we're making it
31:42better for the person behind you coming. So you have to go through the process because it's a part of,
31:48you know, it's bigger than you is kind of what she was saying. And I think some of the things
31:55that
31:55I'm learning right now about, you know, kind of not being, um, relegated to, to a box, you can be,
32:06uh, Black and love the world and the global world. I can talk with my sis just like this and
32:16talk to,
32:17you know, all types of people. I don't, I'm not, I'm not to be confined and I don't have to
32:21be,
32:22you don't have to understand me. You don't have to understand exactly what I'm saying,
32:26but I'm still going to be me and authentically myself. And I would hope I have like younger
32:33cousins, 10, 12 years younger. And I'm like, I want you to walk into every room and fully be
32:38yourself. You do not have to conform to, to anything like that is it. And so maybe, maybe that's
32:45something that I'm learning right now. Like be, be, be enough, be loud enough, be glamorous enough,
32:51be feminine enough. Like they don't have to contradict themselves just because you like
32:56makeup and you like all pink that people shouldn't take you seriously. No, you should,
33:01you should. And I think like what the fight used to look like, doesn't need to look like
33:07that anymore. You know, like whatever you're fighting for, it doesn't have to be like,
33:12you have to be the most angriest person in the room. Like you have to like shout,
33:15like the fight can look a little different than what it looked like in the past.
33:19I hope so. Yeah. So as you were talking to Taylor, you're talking about just being yourself
33:24and knowing when you walk into a room that you should be there. When did you realize that you
33:30were that person or that you were now the person that someone could come to for support or someone
33:35could look to and say, that's the example. And that's who I want to be. Because I think that
33:41there is, it's hard. I think we're still, at least for me, I'm still learning and going through that
33:48and realizing, Oh, I'm the one now. Oh, I'm here. I'm the mentor. I'm the grownup.
33:53What? When did you realize that?
33:57I was actually going to say, maybe I'm still, maybe I'm still realizing that. But here's the
34:06thing. Like if in any point in my life, if anyone's ever asked, Oh, how did, how did you go
34:12about this?
34:12Or what do you think about this? I've always been more than willing to share any resource or,
34:19you know, any knowledge that I may have. So maybe I, maybe the shift actually has happened
34:27where it's kind of like these things that you're wanting to get, you're actually kind of getting
34:33them. So people are like, when you say, Oh, you should get into class or do this thing. People are
34:41like, I'm going to do it. So I, I, I'm still catching up. Like, I'm still like, I'm buffering.
34:50Like understanding, not only am I the grownup, but I'm kind of like, you're no, you're, you're
34:58aspiring. I'm constantly aspiring to something, but you've done some things too. And you do know
35:04some things through your experiences. So I think I've always been willing to share, but I'm still
35:10catching up to me being the person that people are like, I would like to do the things that you've
35:16done or I want to follow in your step. I'm kind of like, really? Okay. You can do it.
35:23I can relate wholeheartedly. And I think that might be the millennial in us because we're in
35:30just this weird phase where it's like, we're old enough to know like certain things, but then we're
35:36still young enough to like, we're still in the grind and figuring things out. So like when people come to
35:42me and I'm like, girl, I'm still trying to figure it out. Like, why are you asking me for the
35:47answers? I, I barely know them myself. So I can really, yeah, I really don't know. And even in
35:53like personal lives, like on the holidays, I'm like, okay, who's, you know, whose house can I go
35:58to? Girl, you need to be hosting. Okay. It's your house. My husband, he's, he's, he's, he's working
36:06this, this Thanksgiving. He's a, um, he's a surgeon. And he was like, he was like, um, so we could
36:12do
36:13Thanksgiving at the house this week or, uh, this year, like, you know, make a menu. I said, I'm cooking,
36:18right. I get, I'm just, I'm like, I'm also the youngest in my family. So I'm, I'm baby girl.
36:26I'm like me. Cool. I'm the oldest. Oh, you're the oldest. Okay. It is your house. You are cooking
36:33then. So I want to end it off more. So just talking about how you are pouring into yourself.
36:38Cause we're talking about being the mentors, you know, and having the people that we pour
36:44into. So I just want to know, how are you pouring into yourself? I think one of my favorite
36:50ways to pour into myself, I call it a nervous system reset day, um, where I probably will
36:58put my phone on vibrate or do not disturb. I won't have any alarm when I wake up and I
37:06just
37:06kind of ask myself how I feel and what do I want to do that day? I feel like that's
37:11a luxury
37:12to be able to do that. It doesn't happen often, but I do try to like schedule it sometimes,
37:18like particularly if I've been traveling a lot, but daily, how I pour into myself, I really
37:24stick to my morning routines. Um, I like to kind of wake up. I'm a little bit of a early
37:31bird. I like to wake up before things get going. Cause that's like my me time. So I'll work
37:38out. I'll go for a walk. I'll do my devotions and I will not answer the phone. You cannot
37:44get a phone call answered out of me before 9am, uh, Eastern standard time. Like, because
37:53I think it's good to have that boundary, especially when your work can bleed into your personal
37:59life so much and you love it so much that it's like, I can always be working on something.
38:04Like I I'm writing, I'm producing, I'm, I can always be working, but I'll try to set boundaries
38:11because there are times sometimes where I'm writing until four or five, six o'clock in the
38:15morning, because I'm like, I got to get it out of me. I'm doing this thing. So for the most
38:20part,
38:21I will try to stay to like my routines. Cause it's good. It's good for my brain to do that.
38:27Routines are important. Very important.
38:29So important that routine. And then also that do not disturb till 9am. Oh, I think I'm going to
38:34steal that one from you. Cause I needed that. What do you need before nine that I can't call
38:41you back? All my group chats are on mute. I mute all my group chats. Me too. Like I have
38:47to no shade
38:48love them down, but I can't deal with a lot of notifications on my phone going off all the time.
38:54Yeah. I'm on the West coast and I've been like 5am answering stuff. Last thing. I want you to just
39:00like give a final shout out to CAU and your time there and just why it was so formative and
39:08important
39:08to you. Just give a final shout out. Infinite shout out to the illustrious Clark Atlanta University.
39:15Um, my time there, um, my time there really just reinforced, um, all the things that my parents
39:24and my community that I grew up with instilled in me, but it refined it and, and helped it blossom
39:30into this, this person who believed that they could achieve their dreams and find a way or make one
39:36shout out. That is our motto. Um, it has carried me through a lot of things in life because even
39:42if you
39:43don't necessarily see a way, there's always a way, um, you know, if it is supposed to happen. So just
39:49really, really relying on the persistence, the consistency, discipline, all those things will
39:56get you to where you want to go in life. And, um, I love the fact that the community that
40:02I built
40:02at Clark Atlanta university, um, everybody has gone on into the world to do things. I have some of my
40:09best friends. I met my husband when I was at CAU, he was at Morehouse at the same time, shout
40:14out to
40:14the AUC, but yeah, my life would be very different if I did not attend Clark Atlanta university. So I'm
40:22always grateful for that, that choice that it found me and I love my CAU. Yay. That was beautiful.
40:31That was beautiful. Thank you so much for being here with us, Taylor. You were a dream guest.
40:37We loved kicking with you. Please come back anytime. Thank you so much, Taylor.
40:42Thank you guys. You know what makes growth hit different? Having people in your corner who
40:47see something in you before you see it in yourself. That's the power of HBCUs. And it's why Target's
40:52commitment to mentorship, community, and access matters through design to grow. Target is helping
40:58create opportunities that give the next generation more room to dream, build, and become because when
41:04somebody pours into you, you don't just carry that with you. You carry it forward. We just had an
41:09incredible conversation with Taylor. Sandy, how great was Taylor? I'm obsessed with her. I want
41:14to be her friend now. Oh my God. That's my home girl now. That's my sis. I'm about to hit
41:19her up like
41:20sis. All right. Where we at this weekend? Yeah. What we doing? No, she was amazing. She has so many
41:28great things to say. Love her down. Oh my God. Such a refreshing conversation. It really was. And we
41:34talked about mentorship a bit in there and Taylor told us some really great things and, you know,
41:39mentioned some professors who were her mentors. So I want to talk about ours. Sandy, did you have a
41:45mentor in university and what did mentorship look like for you back then? So similar to what Taylor
41:51was saying, I didn't have a traditional mentor. There were women, you know, that I admired that,
41:59you know, looking at their work and the things that they were doing where I was just like, oh my
42:02God,
42:03you know, when I get into the space, like I want to, want to be this like boss girl, this
42:08boss woman. So
42:09I didn't traditionally have a mentor. I never asked anyone to be a mentor, but there, like I said,
42:14there were women where, you know, I probably reached out and say like, hey, do you need some help?
42:18Well, you know, I can intern for you or like, I'm willing to volunteer for like an event that you
42:23might be hosting. And thankfully, you know, they always were willing to like take me under their
42:28wing, you know, put me in spaces that I probably wouldn't have been afforded to if it wasn't for
42:35me. Just, you know, like we talked about being courageous and I didn't think about it at that
42:39point, like as someone that was like courageous or like had the courage to do things, but it was that
42:44hunger. Like I knew for a fact it was when I watched that show PR girls, I think that was
42:51like on MTV or something like that. Right before going to college, I was like, I want to be in
42:56like
42:56the media space. And I was like, I was determined to do whatever it was to be in those spaces.
43:02So
43:03it trickled on to me, you know, now being a mentor because I am part of a mentorship program. Now
43:08it's been an amazing journey to see. I always feel weird. I always say is I'm like when people
43:13ask me for advice or like want to know like my roadmap, I'm like, how and why? Because I am
43:19still
43:20trying to figure out how to navigate that map. Okay. There's so many loopholes, but I think it's
43:27amazing that I think the approach that I take and where I wish like I would have had, it's just
43:34like
43:35that rawness and like keeping it real and not always telling you what you want to hear because
43:40you will fail. Things will happen. People will shut those doors and knowing how to bounce back from
43:45that is like super important. So like when I'm talking to my mentee, like I'm giving her the raw
43:51and the real, I'm just like this company is, you know, might not be the greatest for you because of
43:56like how they treat their employees or, you know, like sometimes like taking the easy way out of
44:02certain things. So I would say that this has been my journey and like mentorship.
44:07Well, I love that. And your mentee is so lucky to have you, Sandy. I like you in university didn't
44:15have a super traditional mentor in that. Like, I feel like now there's so many programs or it's like
44:23we're setting you up with a mentor. And now that we're both a part of, I'm a part of those
44:28programs.
44:28I did not have that, but I did. I did internships in university and I met amazing people through those
44:37mentorships who were doing, sorry, through those internships who were doing things that I wanted
44:43to do. And those people kind of organically became my mentors. I always, I think I've shouted
44:49her out on this podcast before, but I owe my entire career to Tracy Melshor. She is an on-air
44:56reporter at eTalk, which is like a Canadian entertainment tonight. Um, and I was an intern
45:02in the building, um, that there's, you know, it's Canadian TV. It's like the Mecca of Canadian TV. I
45:08was an intern in that building and Tracy was working in that building. And I was like, I want to
45:12go
45:12intern in New York. That was my dream. I was like, I really want to go intern at MTV in
45:17New York. And
45:18she's like, my ex-husband's friend works there. So she called up her ex-husband and I know she had
45:25to like get her ex on the phone and ask for a favor. That's a real one. And so yeah,
45:31through her
45:32ex-husband's friend, I got an interview and then I got an internship at MTV in New York. And I
45:38think
45:38that opened just all the doors for the rest of my career. I was able to come back to Canada,
45:43come back
45:44to Toronto after spending time in New York. And then, you know, it was just like, I had that
45:48experience. I was able to get my foot in the door at Much Music in Canada and then from there
45:53whole
45:54career. So it was just, I learned so much from her, but also I think a big part of mentorship
46:00is just
46:00not downloading advice on somebody, but also what can I do for them? Can I get them an interview? Can
46:06I
46:06get them an actual foot in the door if they're worthy of that? Um, and so that was, you know,
46:13definitely something I learned from Tracy as a mentor. And then now,
46:19now it is so hard because a lot of the time I'm like, I don't know if I have enough
46:26to give
46:29to mentees. You do. But I'm also like, I've been doing this a long time. So pull up a chair.
46:35Like I, let me tell you young one. Um, but it, it has been so fulfilling. And I think especially
46:42for black girls or black young women in back in Canada and Toronto, where I do a lot of this
46:50mentorship, it is so important because this, the space is predominantly white and there just isn't
46:57a lot of people that like, when you said Sandy, that you are the person that you needed back then,
47:01I feel similarly about me and Tracy is a black woman and she's like the person that I've reached
47:06out to. And so I'm trying to be that for other people. Like if you can see it, you can
47:11be it. You
47:11can see me doing it. And then also, yeah, the real talk, like, let me talk to you about how
47:16racist
47:17and messed up this industry can be and how, how you can navigate it, how you can survive it and
47:24let's survive it together now. And hopefully you don't have to deal with as much as I did
47:30because I'm here because I'm in this space. Yeah, no, we have so much to give and I want to
47:35like
47:35do better in like trying to downplay like my experience and like my knowledge and you and I
47:45both have been doing this for a while. We have the resources, we have the knowledge, we have the
47:51experience. So of course we have so much to give. There's so much in like a conversation,
47:58like people will give me like reassurance. And to me, it seems so small. Like I'm barely
48:04telling you anything. And to them, it's like the world, like, oh my God, you just like popped the,
48:10like a freaking idea bubble in my brain. And I'm just like, really? I thought that was like,
48:16so I want us to do a better job in like giving us a little bit more credit for what
48:21we have gone
48:22through because we hadn't been through the mud. And like, look at us now. My girl just interviewed
48:28Oprah. Okay. My girl just interviewed Oprah. Okay. A whole collab host. It is going to be there forever.
48:35It's not a, in your story, 24 hours, it's gone. It's on the feed. Okay. So please, I'm going to
48:43give you
48:44your flowers. Thank you, Sandy. Thank you so much. Yes. Interviewing Oprah was definitely one of those
48:49moments where you, you can't pretend you haven't made it when that happens, when you're sitting
48:55across from the person. That's not like the aha moment that it was. Yeah, truly. It was an aha
49:01moment. Like, it's like when I'm sitting across from the person who I saw, Oprah was not my mentor
49:07because I didn't know her, but she was in a lot of ways because she was the example. She was
49:11the
49:12blueprint. And so to be sitting across from that person and to be able to tell her how much she
49:16meant
49:17to me, like that is a moment where you're just like, yeah, I I've definitely done some things
49:21right. And I've got, I've gotten to this place. When you get to that place, you have to be able
49:26to
49:26understand that you can impart wisdom. And yeah. And I also think, you know, we're in a time where I
49:33think that expertise isn't valued as much as it should be. We are in a literacy crisis. We are in
49:39a
49:39moment where influencers who maybe don't have the knowledge and the foundation that they should,
49:46not all of them, but a lot of them are at the forefront of this industry. So as someone who
49:52went to journalism school has been working in this for a long, long time and who, as much as I've
49:59had
49:59to work on my confidence over the years, I am confident in my abilities. I am a capable, confident
50:04person. And so I think that that is another thing, Sandy, where you're like, let's not downplay
50:09downplay our accomplishments. Because if I've worked this hard and this long to develop that
50:15expertise now is when you have to make sure that the next generation has that as well.
50:20I want to know though, what we have learned from our mentees, because being a mentor, you're obviously
50:27imparting wisdom, but being around young people, there's so much that we can learn from the next
50:31generation. Is there something that maybe one of your mentees or a younger person taught you?
50:37Oh my God. I feel like the younger generation is teaching me things every day and it's so hard
50:43to admit, but I just love their carelessness of not taking things too serious because there's so much
50:53going on in the world. It's like, these things are so minuscule to the bigger picture of what is
50:59actually happening. When I talk to my mentees, it's very relaxed energy where it's like,
51:06I want to do this and I'm going to do it. But if it doesn't happen, I guess I'll just
51:10do something
51:11else. And you're like, wait, what? I worked my whole career for this. I'm not going to just do
51:17something else. But they're like, I mean, thankfully, I mean, we still have time to.
51:22We're not old. We're not age yet. But you can start over again and it is okay. And how the
51:29economy and how things are just forever evolving, I feel like my mentees or even people that I'm
51:36around that are Gen Zs or younger than me, they're not afraid to try the thing or do it over
51:42and fail.
51:42And I'm forever learning that it's okay if this doesn't work out because something else will
51:48happen. Like you have a lot of time on this earth and keep doing the thing that you're interested
51:55in doing because something will stick. So I'm forever learning that because growing up, it was
52:01very much like, no, you do the thing that you were supposed to, like you went to school to learn
52:07to
52:07do. You start something, you finish it. They're like, I'm good on this. I'm not gonna do it anymore.
52:13Next, when I'm like, no, I at least got to stay at a job for like two, three years.
52:18They're like, oh no, two weeks, I'm out. I'm okay. I don't like this anymore.
52:23Yeah, they adapt. And you're right. They listen to themselves a lot where they're like,
52:27they trust their instincts and their gut. And yeah, they move on if it's not serving them,
52:32which I definitely think is something we can learn for sure. For me, I think you're right.
52:36They don't care as much, which caring is like one of the core tenets of my personality. I care a
52:45lot,
52:45but I care too much sometimes. And so I think just having that, hey, my entire life is not this
52:52job. I think that's something that Next Generation does really well is they, I don't think they define
52:59themselves by their job. Yes. And I think that is such an important thing to remember. And especially
53:06when we're in an industry where we love our jobs, we are passionate about them. And that's important.
53:12Work ethic is important. I think work ethic is something I'm teaching my mentees.
53:18I think that they're teaching me that it's like, okay, but this doesn't have to be your entire life.
53:23You have a life, you have friends, you have family, you have hobbies, you have like a soul that has
53:30nothing
53:30to do with capitalism. And I think that that is such an important thing that they're constantly
53:36teaching me. They know they've seen our generation and the unfulfilled promises of capitalism that we
53:43have endured. And so I think they're also like, why am I going to give my whole life, my whole
53:49self,
53:50all of my cares, all of my everything, and then get what in return? Nothing.
53:57Exactly. So I think that's definitely something I'm learning from them.
54:01Yeah. Likewise. Likewise.
54:02Well, I really love this conversation. I think it is so important to talk about
54:06how we report into and how we pour into someone else. I think that's the real full circle moment
54:11is realizing that the things people poured into us didn't just help us get here. They became part
54:16of how we show up for other people. And now we get to decide how to pass that along and
54:21what we pass
54:22along. And it's a beautiful thing. And we're going to continue to do that. And we're going to continue
54:27to redefine legacy beyond what we accomplish for ourselves. One of my favorite Toni Morrison quotes
54:34is once you are free, your job is to free somebody else. Amen. That is exactly what mentorship is.
54:40Yeah. Okay. We have now come to my favorite part of Go Off Sis, my favorite segment in the show.
54:47It is called Don't At Me. And so just like the title suggests, you cannot at us. We're going to
54:54say
54:54some things. I don't want you in my DMs about it. She's going to let me or Sandy, you're just
55:00let
55:00us go off. Let my girl go off. And do not at us. Okay. Kathleen has something to say and
55:08I'm ready
55:09to listen. Go ahead, sis. Go off. Okay, Sandy. Don't at me, but enough with the networking events.
55:18Enough. Enough. Sandy is covering her face. I'm just saying how many happy hours, how many panels,
55:28how many mixers, how many brunches, how many intentional connection spaces do we need to
55:34attend before we admit that standing in a room with 75 strangers and exchanging LinkedIn information is
55:39not necessarily building a network. That's not necessarily how you find a mentor because sometimes
55:45networking is about just building an activity and a relationship with somebody instead of being in
55:50a room where you like get your fits off and get your selfies in and post about it on Instagram.
55:56That's not necessarily what networking is or what networking should be. And I think these events
56:00have just become like influencer events where you're just trying to post it on social media period.
56:07And it's not about what it's supposed to be about, which is building these real connections and real
56:14moments. Networking events. They either need to change or they need to stop. Sandy's face right now.
56:20I'm not done. I'm not done. What if we stopped obsessing over meeting more people and started focusing
56:26on the people we actually know and have already met? Call someone, send them the article that made you think
56:33of them or that you wrote. Ask how their project went. Invite them to coffee. Make an introduction.
56:39Celebrate their win when there's nothing in it for you instead of trying to be seen. Okay? Call up the
56:46person you already know. Network across. Call your friend instead of trying to go to some event and just
56:51like rub shoulders with that person that you think you need to be seen with. Enough with the networking
56:57events. Make some real life, in real life connections. Don't at me. Boom. She said what
57:05she said. I love that, Kathleen. Because I agree. No, you're not wrong. I agree. You're not wrong. I
57:12know we were going with that. I said, oh, oh, wait, wait, wait. You know what I got to add?
57:19I got to add
57:19because listen, we go to networking events all the time. Sometimes they are great. When you build real
57:26connections, you're sitting down and having an actual conversation with someone. What I've seen
57:30is so many of these events just become a like, stand there, take a picture, go home. You know?
57:37I think you have to know what you're going for. Like, cause they have like the networking events.
57:42They have like the conferences. They have all of that. For me personally, I'm obviously forever
57:48networking. I'm always open to meeting new people. But for me going to these events, a lot of the times
57:53it's like a reunion to see someone that I haven't seen in a long time, you know, to catch
57:59a little open bar, a little open bar, some drinks. So I know me personally, I'm not going. If I
58:06just
58:06so happen to have a conversation with someone, we hit it off, we exchange contacts, that's fine.
58:11But I'm not going to just like find someone to land my next job, my next opportunity. I'm just
58:17going intentionally just to have a good time. So you just got to know.
58:22Yeah. I mean, we, we love, you're right. We love an open bar, but I think the key there
58:26is you're saying you're, you're connecting with someone you already knew, right? Like
58:31your network isn't the number of people in your phone. It's the people you actually know
58:35who trust you, who remember you and are going to think of you when an opportunity does come
58:40up. Right. Like, I think that that's the key there.
58:43Yes. Agreed.
58:45Okay. Don't add us. I just wanted, I needed Sandy to agree with my don't at me.
58:48No, no, no. Wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly. I agree.
58:52Hey, thanks.
58:53Oh no. Oh no. Shoot. She going to ruffle some feathers with that one.