- 2 days ago
As Latinas, we’ve been taught, in both subtle and explicit ways, that being too visible, too loud, too opinionated, too ambitious, just too much can come with consequences. We are taught there is safety in being agreeable and virtue in being selfless. And so we disappear, both literally and figuratively, both physically and emotionally.
And right now, as our community is being targeted by immigration crackdowns, threats to our rights, and political rhetoric increasingly telling us that we don’t belong, that pressure to disappear can feel even more intense. Research shows that when you’re living with immigration anxiety, or the fear of being stopped, detained, watched, or profiled, it can change how you move through the world, where you go, how you show up, and even how comfortable you feel taking up space.
But what parts of ourselves do we lose when we’re constantly trying to be less, and what could our communities gain if more of us felt free to take up space?
In today’s episode of Sin Vergüenza by Somos, we’re getting into all the messages and expectations that teach us to make ourselves smaller and learning how to resist them and, instead, take up more space, for ourselves and for each other.
To do that, we’re speaking with Johanna Toruño, the queer Salvadoran-born, Virginia-raised, and LA-based artist behind The Unapologetic Street Series, a project she started in 2016 that uses public spaces across the country as a canvas for affirmations celebrating Latinas, immigrants, queer and trans people, and other marginalized communities.
And right now, as our community is being targeted by immigration crackdowns, threats to our rights, and political rhetoric increasingly telling us that we don’t belong, that pressure to disappear can feel even more intense. Research shows that when you’re living with immigration anxiety, or the fear of being stopped, detained, watched, or profiled, it can change how you move through the world, where you go, how you show up, and even how comfortable you feel taking up space.
But what parts of ourselves do we lose when we’re constantly trying to be less, and what could our communities gain if more of us felt free to take up space?
In today’s episode of Sin Vergüenza by Somos, we’re getting into all the messages and expectations that teach us to make ourselves smaller and learning how to resist them and, instead, take up more space, for ourselves and for each other.
To do that, we’re speaking with Johanna Toruño, the queer Salvadoran-born, Virginia-raised, and LA-based artist behind The Unapologetic Street Series, a project she started in 2016 that uses public spaces across the country as a canvas for affirmations celebrating Latinas, immigrants, queer and trans people, and other marginalized communities.
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00:00I'm from the south you know after I immigrated to this country culturally and the American
00:04experience that I have is southern right so I always like to include that in my artwork and to
00:09include the resilience and the power of people in in southern and more conservative states
00:14because they're the reason why we have so much of what we have today black and brown people
00:19fighting yeah for our liberation yeah
00:35growing up I tried my very best to take up as little space as possible wherever I was
00:40in today's episode we're getting into all the messages and expectations that teach us to make
00:45ourselves smaller and learning how to resist them and instead take up more space for ourselves and
00:52for each other and right now as our community is being targeted by immigration crackdowns threats
00:57to our rights and political rhetoric increasingly telling us that we don't belong that pressure to
01:03disappear can feel even more intense research shows that when you're living with immigration
01:07anxiety or the fear of being stopped detained watched or profiled it can change how you move
01:13through the world where you go how you show up and even how comfortable you feel taking up space
01:18and today we're speaking with someone who knows that fear intimately and has spent the last decade
01:23challenging it by making herself and the communities she represents impossible to ignore
01:28Joanna Toruño hey baby girl
01:34okay okay let's get serious
01:36Joanna is a queer Salvadoran born Virginia raised New York made and LA based
01:41artist behind the unapologetic street series a project she started in 2016
01:45that uses public spaces across the country as a canvas for affirmations
01:50celebrating Latinas immigrants queer and trans people and other marginalized communities
01:55her work is a reminder that we belong and deserve to be here
01:59and to make our presence known and felt everywhere we go
02:03Joanna is also my sweet and beautiful friend and I'm so excited to have you on the show
02:09I'm so happy to be here
02:11thank you so much love
02:12thank you so much for being here I'm so grateful to have you on the show
02:16I'm so excited to do this with you
02:18look at us
02:19it's been such a long time
02:21it's been it has been quite a long time
02:25all around us and for much of our lives we've been taught to not take up space we talked about
02:30this before right we've talked about this phrase
02:31galletita te ves mas bonita right this like which actually means like you look prettier when you're quiet which is
02:38like
02:38a wild thing to say to anyone and it was like we were receiving this message from
02:45our moms our abuelitas like our tias like our kin like
02:51like it's absolutely wild
02:53um but we're taught not to talk back to our elders right we're taught not to make a scene
02:59not to have too much of an opinion and not to take up too much space and some of us
03:04especially those who are undocumented melanated folks who are queer some identities you hold
03:09staying quiet also like is a form of self-protection and yet since 2016
03:15you have done the opposite of like what society and culture has taught you to do
03:21you've used public spaces as a platform for visibility for belonging and for defiance
03:27putting messages into the world that tell latinas and other marginalized communities that we belong here
03:33i remember you were living in washington dc during trump's first presidency
03:37um and i remember watching your social videos and your social content of you pasting and like
03:44your your posters around dc and i remember watching from florida and being so stressed the
03:50hell out for my girl um because it can be dangerous right so so take me to 2016
03:56how did you begin to unlearn the conditioning that tells us to be small
04:00and to not take up space so that you were able to actually do this work
04:04yeah you know i think in 2016 i was doing what a lot of folks were trying to figure out
04:09and
04:09i think for me i've always known that keeping to ourselves and keeping our stories our pains or
04:15whatever makes us feel really isolated so i think for me i felt with the looming
04:23trump presidency the first time around i knew that i wanted to find a way to have connection with people
04:29i knew that i was not the only formerly undocumented person i was not the only teenager who would
04:34experience incarceration at a young age there's so many things that i knew i wasn't the only one
04:39holding on to and having those experiences so for me i wanted to create a body of work something that
04:47fostered true connection and true conversation with other folks because i knew i wasn't alone and i think
04:52that at specific at that specific time it was even more important um for that to happen yeah
04:58and these are like exactly the identities that like have been told to live in the shadows yeah and i
05:05mean even with the beginning of my work in 2016 i was living in new york and my posters there
05:09was no
05:10instagram handle there was no artist name because i wasn't interested in being perceived i just wanted
05:15to make something but then i thought you know if there's no way to connect then no one's gonna there's
05:20not
05:20going to be a connection with people there's not going to be a way for you know for any of
05:27it so
05:27after that came the standing by it and putting my name to it and that's where things grew
05:35and i'm sure it's still scary yeah it is even more so now honestly yeah you know i think when
05:39i look
05:39back and i when i was undocumented with a pending uh uvisa application i really look back and i'm like
05:48wow
05:48that version of me was not scared and even now that i'm not undocumented anymore i'm more scared
05:55now than before and i think that that's uh an evolution of what has happened in the past 10 years
06:02yeah sometimes i feel like we and i say we because i'm guilty of this too um are making ourselves
06:09smaller
06:09without even realize like realizing that we're doing it for me like i could quiet my laugh right
06:15i have this big loud annoying ass laugh so i'm always trying to quiet it um but it's not just
06:20that
06:21like i have friends who are just constantly apologizing about everything and nothing i you know
06:27know folks who allow um their co-workers to take credit for the work that they are doing right there
06:34are so many different experiences and examples ways that we do this um and so when did you start
06:42noticing the ways you were shrinking yourself and what were you doing i think that's just something
06:48that we're taught to do literally um i came to the united states when i was 10 years old and
06:54i didn't
06:55speak the language and i think that made me feel um not only isolated but i felt like i had
07:00an excuse
07:01to hide and to shrink away and you know then obviously growing up in this country and and
07:06having certain experiences that i do i've always just wanted to not be seen to just shy and hide away
07:15but i think when we're taught to do that and like i said the isolation really comes into play and
07:20i think
07:21that with some of the things that we experience when we're kids and being immigrants and growing up
07:26i also think another layer here is that you also you grew up in virginia yeah i grew up in
07:31orlando
07:32orlando's a very puerto rican city now but when we moved there we were like one of the earlier
07:36migrants right yeah it's still the south you very much grew up you grew up in richmond that's very
07:40much the south yeah um so there is also a sense of like shrinking ourselves absolutely yeah and i mean
07:48i think even now you know i just spent the last few weeks in new york and i was having
07:54a crisis
07:54yesterday i was like did i do nothing this summer and i'm like babe like you just went and spoke
07:59at
07:59the un about the importance of needing to de-center institutions like the un at the un you know like
08:05i i went and got to see billboards that i that i curated with my fiance of art that we
08:10really love
08:11and got to paste up in new york and do wonderful work and here i am yesterday in bed like
08:16did i do
08:17nothing all summer it's like why shrink why not acknowledge the things that we're doing and it's
08:24because it can feel really unnatural to take up so much space even within yourself so it's definitely
08:29something i'm still figuring out how to do no matter how it looks like on the outside and how
08:35like accomplished or whatever you're doing like you have to learn how to unlearn that do do do when
08:41nothing is ever enough well how do you how do you even start to like recognize that right so you
08:47had
08:47this moment where you were just like you know sitting there with yourself and you're having these you
08:52know these thoughts and then you caught yourself i think it's like internal like you know i'm i'm
08:58sitting there and i'm like why i feel like i did nothing this summer it's like why how how did
09:02i not
09:02even slow down long enough to be like well no i've done this this and that right and like even
09:06if i
09:07hadn't like why can't the rest and the joy be enough so i think you have to catch yourself and
09:13and i do
09:14think that there is a self-awareness that has to come with that right especially when you're taught to
09:18hide your whole life yeah you have to choose to do differently and you have to have that self-awareness
09:24like oh okay my cap is on yeah this is how i'm shrinking and this is in the subtle ways
09:30that i do
09:30it and is it these are the in the most flagrant ways like in your face ways that i do
09:34it yeah so
09:35is it like helpful to like when you have this negative thought whatever it is it's just the
09:39begin to question that yeah where that's coming from exactly it's just like okay let's pump the
09:43brakes what's the actual truth yeah not the story that we make up in our heads yeah yeah because i
09:48mean you were chilling at the un right like telling them about how telling them about themselves
09:52right so your work is literally public right it's pasted on brick walls and other public spaces
10:01throughout everywhere new york la dc italy my girl international international um and these aren't
10:10subtle messages right there are beautiful floral affirmations telling black and brown femmes to
10:15come to the front right there are prayers to la virgencita asking for protection from ice
10:21your work lives in our neighborhoods and on our streets which means people can love it people can
10:27criticize it people can ignore it people can report it how did you become comfortable being seen
10:36knowing it could lead to ridicule or worse state harm i think i made a choice that came from my
10:42lived
10:43experiences growing up being an immigrant kid and then teenager and um being incarcerated at a young
10:48age and on probation until i was almost 18 i think those years created something in me that really
10:55desired to rebel against the norms that i was under right and i think that when you're under state
11:01surveillance and have experienced that you flip right that there's a there's a choice that you make
11:10and i think for me creating this body of work was directly because of that i think i knew that
11:16i wanted to
11:17take up space but also with my work on the streets you know i put it up and then i
11:22leave right so even
11:23then it's a pretty solitary experience however it belongs to the people right and i'm okay with that i'm okay
11:30with people having their own experiences with it because it's not for everybody and i don't create my work
11:36for everybody so i wouldn't be surprised if there's many who critique it and don't like it it's okay
11:43it's not my it's not my relationship with it it's not my experience you can feel however you want
11:47but i'm okay with that because i know who it's for yeah and i know that their the relationship and
11:53their reaction that people have with it on the streets yeah yeah and it's for a community right like it
11:59you
11:59don't just say like i belong here you say you belong here you say we belong here and you do
12:05that
12:05in so many ways right not just the messages but also in these other ways like i remember when we
12:10first met 2016 10 years ago that's wild but we met because you used to host these group like pasting
12:21and so we would all just like link up and you would teach us what to do and we would
12:27like paste
12:28and new york summers right and i mean you still do that in in different ways right you still bring
12:36the
12:36community in in different ways i know that you offer free prints like on your on your websites for
12:43folks to like print out and paste themselves in their own neighborhoods for a while i don't know if
12:47you're still doing this but you were you would like refurbish the newspaper stands oh my god it
12:55was so cute you would refurbish them you would make them so cute you would add like throw in some
12:59posters sometimes you would add flowers for folks to take two just so beautiful so intentional so
13:06thoughtful just recently in new york like you literally left you were just in new york and you
13:12left like a kit for just anyone to go and grab and you encourage people to go and grab just
13:18to paste
13:18their own work right again community is just central to everything that you do your work isn't just about
13:25taking up space for yourself you're creating opportunities for other people to take up space too
13:30so what do you think happens when we do that for one another i think that literally we give each
13:36other
13:36permission to take up space and subtle in different ways what i've always wanted to do with my work is
13:41to
13:41make it accessible for people and to encourage people to do and create their own work and if they
13:45want to bring it to the streets or their classroom or their dorm room or whatever i've always wanted to
13:51remind people that we all deserve to take up space specifically in public spaces which is why the work
13:56lives there because it meets people where they're at and their commute on their way home they don't have
14:01to go out of their way to experience it they don't have to go into a space they may not
14:04feel comfortable
14:05in like an art gallery or a museum it's there and it'll be there hopefully right or i'll go i'll
14:10go
14:11and replace it but i wanted to meet people where they were at and making my work accessible and
14:16teaching my work i hope that other people create it create their own versions and create their own
14:21artwork and go out on the street and put it up because i believe so deeply in the power of
14:26street
14:26art and the power of public art specifically by the people who live in those neighborhoods and have
14:31lived experiences that deserve to take up space more than ads do yeah okay um it must feel so beautiful
14:39to have like because i know like folks will print out your posters will you know paste them in small
14:46towns where maybe they themselves never even saw themselves you know represented on public walls like
14:53folks here in la might or like folks in new york or miami might not necessarily in richmond you know
14:58yeah i mean and i'm always so cognizant of that because i'm from a southern you know state i'm from
15:05i'm
15:06from the south you know after i immigrated to this country culturally and the american experience that
15:10i have is southern right so i always like to include that in my artwork and to include the
15:16resilience and the power of people in in southern and more conservative states because they're the
15:21reason why we have so much of what we have today black and brown people in the south black and
15:27brown people fighting yeah for our liberation yeah i think one of the beautiful things about your work
15:33is that it gives us a really tangible picture of what taking up space can actually look like
15:38but obviously not everyone is an artist is not capable of the physical labor that goes into that
15:44some of us live in the sweatiest city in the country so for the rest of us what are some
15:52ways
15:52everyday latinas can start taking up more space in their own lives by being present in your own life
15:58and i think i say that because for such a long time i think we live you know i think
16:04for me it's the
16:04only experience i can speak from but you can almost be a bystander in your own life and i think
16:10for me
16:10once you start being present and you start to really be introspective and really explore and
16:16challenge yourself why you do certain things why do we hide why do we not do this why do we
16:20have ideas but write them down and then never accomplish them so i think for me it's once you
16:25start truly being present with yourself you start to take up space in other ways yeah you know and
16:31once you start doing that investigation like that internal investigation you start realizing that it's
16:36like all these external lessons like that's why we're behaving the way we are yeah whether that's
16:44culturally rooted things that we need to retire or just you know it's the the way colonialism continues to
16:50show up for us and for our families and yeah and then it becomes so normal so normal until we
16:56start
16:57asking ourselves those questions and beginning that process of unlearning thank you so much for that
17:03i think a lot of folks are really going to benefit from this conversation and actually now it's time
17:09to enter the prima group chat this is where our audience brings the questions dilemmas and situations
17:15that they're navigating straight to the group chat for a little advice from our expert you today we've
17:22got one prima who needs some advice from someone who knows how to be bold even when it's scary and
17:27even
17:27when it's risky okay who's texting the chat today let's dive in all right this is elizabeth elizabeth
17:35says i'm from charlottesville virginia and i work in a space where i'm the only brown person the token brown
17:41person specifically nobody speaks like me or understands where i come from and i find myself
17:46changing the way i talk to fit in or to go unnoticed this has taken a toll on my happiness
17:51i feel like i'm wearing a mask nobody has asked me to do this so how do i get out
17:56of my head and
17:57start taking up space i like that they acknowledge that nobody has asked me because i think that's
18:03literally it babes yeah like nobody is asking this of you stop it yeah my capricorn just stop
18:12do not do that because it takes away from us you know it takes away from from who you are
18:16as a person
18:17and you know i think that sometimes when we do this we think it's what others want us to do
18:22but
18:23they don't you know and if they do then okay cute you know who your friends are not but what
18:28do you gain
18:29from being yourself in settings that you've been taught wouldn't want you to be but it's like
18:35babes this is the time and an era to take up space yeah and what do the other people gain
18:41around you who
18:41see you taking up space and being yourself because like that's something i could relate to i remember
18:45like when i was starting my career in new york and i thought that i had to like i had
18:53to take my
18:53my bamboo earrings off and i had to take off my acrylics and do a cute little short gel
19:00and i was just cosplaying someone who i wasn't right yeah exactly it's like you will always do
19:07the right thing by just being who you actually are and it's once i did that it's easier sorry
19:14it's easier it's a hell of a lot more fun and like once you start doing that again it's like
19:19you
19:19give permission for other folks to do the same and you get to see other people just be in their
19:25truth
19:25and that also just cultivates incredible friendships and friendships like friendships that are still
19:31like some of my most cherished relationships to this day and it all came from just one of us being
19:37brave enough to be ourselves in a space where we felt like we couldn't yeah absolutely i think that's
19:42literally their recipe to just a more peaceful existence is be yourself even when it's hard
19:50because that's the only way that you're gonna actually get to exist and not feel like you're
19:55always walking on eggshells or like you can't be who you are and it's just too much to keep up
19:59with
19:59it's too much i know take it off yeah and if it doesn't work then all right those are not
20:05your
20:05friends yeah but don't make life harder for yourself i love life is hard enough life is hard
20:13joanna so much of your work is about reminding other people that they belong and have every
20:19right to take up space but i know there's a difference between creating that message for
20:24others and again learning to believe it for yourself so when you think about the life you've
20:30built the art you've created and the space you continue to take up in this world what does living
20:35sin vergüenza mean to you i love that i've been doing so much of that recently just being so
20:43grateful for the life i live today so i think for me living sin vergüenza is being at home with
20:49my
20:49fiance and our dogs and being in peace as a queer migrant person as much as i can you know
20:55being who i am
20:57taking up space is the best gift i'll give myself when there were so many reasons why i shouldn't or
21:03couldn't because it's everything that i think my my grandmother would want for me and the people
21:10in the in my matriarchal line i would hope that they're proud of the way that i'm able to stand
21:16as who i am yeah i'm sure i mean i hear it from my own aguerlipas when they see my
21:21life and they're
21:22just like sigue like keep doing that like don't do what we did like just yeah it it's just oof
21:31just the
21:32way like we're talking about like how just you know living in our truth and being ourselves
21:37without apologies um gives other people permission to do the same but also just thinking about how
21:41you know what that does with our with our own elders with our ancestors it's it's incredible well
21:48thank you so much for that my love thank you so much i'm so proud of you i'm so grateful
21:53for you
21:53being here for us doing this together like i have actually seen you grow in you know like grow more
22:03confident in taking up space right like like yeah teddy years is crazy it's a long time it's a whole
22:13decade you start to feel it and you start to just like not give a f it's just been beautiful
22:21to watch you so thank you so much thank you for being here i love you so much i'm so
22:26proud of you
22:27thank you baby and that's it for this episode of sinvergüenza if you loved this conversation make
22:33sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next one and drop a comment below and tell us who you
22:37think
22:38our next guest should be until next time keep taking up space keep doing life on your own terms
22:43and stay living sinvergüenza
22:45you