- 1 day ago
In an exclusive interview with India Today TV, comedian Cyrus Broacha shared his views on Assam's Hall of Shame campaign targeting public urination and Indians' lack of civic sense and inadequate public infrastructure.
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00:00Where a cleanliness drive launched by the Tinsukia Municipal Board in Assam has now drawn national attention.
00:08The municipality's Hall of Shame campaign uses CCTV cameras installed at several locations across Tinsukia and Assam
00:15to name and shame public urinators.
00:19One of the largest industrial hubs of Assam, Tinsukia, is now identifying people
00:24allegedly caught urinating in public or littering.
00:27Images captured by the cameras are then displayed on LED screens at prominent locations in the town,
00:33with officials hoping the public display will act as a deterrent and encourage cleaner civic behaviour.
00:42Meanwhile, Rajya Sabha MP Milan Diora wants Mumbai's civic body to adopt the same model.
00:48Earlier, the Mysore City Corporation installed mirrors along a wall near the suburban bus stand
00:54to discourage public urination.
00:56All of this has led to a larger debate where Indians are concerned.
01:02One has to admit where it comes down to civic sense.
01:07We need a bit more there.
01:09And is it just a civic issue, a cultural issue, a gender issue, whatever it might be.
01:15It is time now, instead of just please, and we had that with the Prime Minister 12 years ago
01:21from the ramparts of the Red Fort where he pledged Swach Bharat.
01:25Now, the please need to, there needs to be a crackdown, many would suggest.
01:30Extract fines if you find public urinators or those who litter in public, or public humiliation.
01:37And there are lots of trains of thought on that.
01:40Joining me right now is comedian Cyrus Brocha.
01:45Thank you, Cyrus, for taking the time out and joining us this evening.
01:48My first question.
01:49We've had the likes from your city, Milan Diora, who's an MP,
01:53who has advocated adopting the ASAM model of naming and shaming public urinators.
01:59Do you agree? What's your take?
02:06I'm very, firstly, I'm very pro-Milan Diora.
02:08Whichever party he goes to, I follow him like a Pomeranian.
02:12I think he's spot on.
02:15You know, we have lots of issues in the country, no doubt about it.
02:17I mean, there are huge issues from poverty and infrastructure issues,
02:21and, you know, I mean, war and nuclear proliferation.
02:24All these things are there as well, no doubt.
02:25But we must not forget the simple things, the everyday things.
02:28And I think India needs about a two-year course in etiquette.
02:31And this is not about Amir Gari.
02:33This is about everybody.
02:34It's just, everybody seems to not understand the boss,
02:36he's our locality, let's keep it safe, let's keep it clean.
02:40And they don't follow anything.
02:41And I don't know, I've lost them.
02:42You know, I just, I cry at night thinking about this.
02:45For hours at a time.
02:47You know, people just leave me alone because I'm so upset.
02:50The biggest problem is that we used to do a show called MTV Bakra many years ago.
02:53And in Delhi, on the road to Bharinabad, we did these gags where we stopped people who urinate.
03:00And the boys there knew that this spot and that spot is the one which is frequently the most.
03:04So we stopped mostly two-wheelers.
03:05This is the December, the winter of Delhi, December jam.
03:09This is obviously very cold.
03:10And it became like a social experiment.
03:12Our idea was to make fun and, you know, catch people awkward moment.
03:15What are you doing?
03:16What are you doing?
03:29So I didn't have an answer to that because it was like, really, that's unfair.
03:33You know, it's cold.
03:34You're feeling like, you know, you need to release at that point at some point.
03:37But two-hour journey on a two-wheeler in the cold of the evening and not a spot to, not
03:41a proper infrastructure in place for a toilet.
03:43So we have a lot of these issues and I started realizing that this is an all-India issue.
03:48In Mumbai, I know by heart where the public toilets are.
03:52And in South Mumbai, I'm okay because I'm an old man now.
03:55So I need to pee all the time.
03:56It's part of what we do for a living.
03:58But as you go further, you start finding there are less and less toilets in certain parts.
04:03And I just, I can't understand why we build anything without thinking about the toilet.
04:07Whether it's a restaurant, whether it's, you know, a place to watch shows.
04:10Because everywhere the toilet has been given very poor treatment.
04:14I think the toilet is the ultimate minority of India.
04:16And that someone should finally stand up for the toilet.
04:19I'm glad Bilinda has done that.
04:20Because this is a very simple thing.
04:22You pay your taxes.
04:23Small basic things like roads should be okay.
04:25You shouldn't die in a manhole.
04:26And above all, if you need to pee, there should be something nearby.
04:29It doesn't have to be in the immediate dust-based meters.
04:31But it should be at least in the next five to ten minutes, you should be able to find your
04:34way to a toilet.
04:35Anywhere in the country.
04:37Well, you know, at one level, bang on, Cyrus, coining toilets as the ultimate minority.
04:43And you are, right?
04:44There are just not too many toilets.
04:46Or even adequate toilets.
04:48We have an acute lack of civic infrastructure in this country.
04:51But if you do, you know, let's flip it a bit, Cyrus.
04:54If you look at other countries, let's look at the UK.
04:56Let's look at America.
04:58Most toilets are paid facilities.
05:00So, even though it's not easy to access free public toilets, there is a sense that people are not going
05:05to start peeing in public.
05:07In India, that context is not there.
05:09Do you think it's a cultural context?
05:11Or is it just gender?
05:15Yes.
05:15Firstly, the mails are to blame more, obviously.
05:17No question about that.
05:18If you ever go into a free mail toilet, and I have done, which is against the law, it's always
05:22cleaner.
05:22There's no question whether it's in an airport, a train station, a local public toilet.
05:26But that's not the matter.
05:27I'm coming up to the social ramifications of this whole thing, which is basically, we are not taught, and again,
05:33it doesn't necessarily mean just poor people or unfunned people.
05:36It's across the board and across our different classes of society.
05:40We are not taught that it's important to not pee in public.
05:44If the role models are wrong from your grandfather over there, you first saw peeing.
05:48So, that's a big problem.
05:49So, if we go to London or Paris, we're shocked.
05:51I was shocked the first time when somebody said you have to pay money to pee.
05:55And I didn't have any coins on me because we were in a big group, and I wasn't carrying anything
05:59on me.
06:00So, I had to go back and get money to, you know.
06:02But I think we're not ready for that.
06:03Because first, you have to have the basic internal system working where you realize that you want to keep your
06:09city, and by that, I mean city becomes country, clean.
06:13And by that, you don't want to pee or defecate in public.
06:15It's just not a possibility, no matter how bad your kidneys are, or how old you are, or whatever leakage
06:20is happening.
06:21You just don't want to do that.
06:22So, that now goes back, like you said, directly to our sanskriti and parampara, which has to change slightly.
06:28Well, you do study the society quite closely, even if it's for comic relief.
06:32But Cyrus, how do you grow a civic conscience?
06:35Because then, it's not a class issue, it's not an education issue, or a literacy issue.
06:41You see Mercedes, and you see people throwing out trash from a car like that as well.
06:50That's because the law is taking its course there, and you're scared.
06:53You're scared you'll be caught, or whatever.
06:55So, that's the main, the stick is working there, not the carrot for us.
06:58But here, when Vinan says you have to shame them, and all that, I think he's completely right.
07:02But that's the later action to be taken, for the adult who's doing wrong.
07:06I want to go back to the beginning.
07:08It's just how we are unkind to animals, or do not have to, you know, have basic etiquette with other
07:12people.
07:12Open doors for ladies, their senior citizens' parks.
07:15All these basic stuff, as you start from childhood.
07:17I think schools, they all should know.
07:18Forget ABC, first teacher called this.
07:20Especially for the Indian male child.
07:22Say, son, you don't want to go to the toilet, you have to go to the toilet.
07:26And then explain what is the toilet.
07:27Of course, there has to be a toilet.
07:29That's another story altogether.
07:31Yeah, the cart-horses issue is going on there at the same time.
07:34But we've improved.
07:35There are some more toilets.
07:37There are definitely more toilets than I was in the 90s, when I was growing up.
07:40So, there's no improvement in that direction.
07:42So, let's not blame the government for everything.
07:44I think this is a whole Indian male phenomenon.
07:47We have to take toilet tuitions.
07:49And the toilet tuitions start at home.
07:51And in those first few years, the kid should feel a sense of pride in not wanting to dirty the
07:56locality.
07:56And this extends from not just the toilet, but also about…
07:59You know, our East Colony is lame.
08:01We should be trying to look after it.
08:02We should be stricken span.
08:03But we're still spitting.
08:05We're still peeing.
08:05We're still throwing things out.
08:07As you said, Mercedes cars don't make any difference.
08:09If I take a camera, I can shoot about 10 different people in 10 different classes of society,
08:14marowing the pavement and the roads.
08:16Because there's no love.
08:17We talk about Mother Earth and, you know, Maa, Gandhi and all that.
08:20But it's not really…
08:22It's just all move-only stuff where you talk about things and you don't do anything.
08:26So, I want to go back and the children have to be taught.
08:29I think teach them civic love first.
08:31Love for the area they live in.
08:33Why?
08:34I don't want to be communal.
08:35But in Gura, Parsi Bagh, it's always clean.
08:36Nobody's clean in public.
08:38If they can do it, a small minority, why can't the rest of India?
08:41Well, I love the word toiletutions.
08:44But if we wait for toiletutions, Cyrus, that's two generations.
08:48And, you know, that's a long wait for people to grow a civic conscience with toiletutions.
08:53In the meanwhile, do you think it's a hefty fine?
08:56Because usually it's money that could put the fear of God in the mind of Indians.
09:01Is it, you have to pay money, so best not to do it?
09:06I'm pro the Assam code and method.
09:09Simply because I feel that this entire...
09:12You know, the word shame or sharam is gone out of...
09:14It's extinct.
09:15It doesn't work anymore.
09:16So, we have to bring that back firstly.
09:18So, people feel a sense.
09:19Because they don't.
09:19I remember the answers I got when I was asking them.
09:22Why do you want to do it?
09:24The answer movie is like, where do you want to do it?
09:27You know, it's not into their head that it's wrong.
09:30That's the whole issue.
09:32And they only enter with some sense of sharam or shame.
09:35But, you know, Cyrus, I had a bunch of very accomplished women on my show.
09:39Yesterday, and they said this is a breach of privacy.
09:43This is not your partner's road.
09:45This is our road.
09:45This is India's road.
09:46Maharashtra's road.
09:47Delhi's road.
09:48These are...
09:49They can't pee there and get away with it.
09:51It's not wrong.
09:52No privacy here.
09:53I will shoot the offending member as well.
09:55Put it all up there.
09:56Let them feel a real sense of shame.
09:58Their families will be appalled.
09:59And then people understand that they don't want to do it.
10:01Please.
10:02Because the fact of the...
10:03It's like people coming up one way.
10:04If you ask them what are they doing, they tell you, why don't you also do it?
10:08You know, how do we get people to understand it's wrong?
10:11It's a fundamental issue is that.
10:12The second issue is that, of course, if nothing's working, you shame them and then put the pictures
10:16up, put videos up, make it the biggest selling thing on your networks.
10:21And hopefully, you know, the world will come across because you don't want to be the next
10:23guy.
10:24Your wife, your mother, your sister, your brothers, your people, you know, all of them will
10:28feel a sense of shame for you and by you.
10:30So, I'm not against it.
10:33I don't know if fines work.
10:34Fines, how much can we fine them?
10:36Are we really going to fine 10 grand when the guy is like completely miserable at the
10:39end of the day?
10:39No.
10:40For 500 bucks, I don't know, it's like 500 in Mumbai, I think.
10:44I know a few people keep the money with them and be in public.
10:47So, I think we have to go back to the, sadly, go back to the shaming situation.
10:52So, Milan is absolutely right.
10:54No, I tend to agree with you.
10:55Name and shame.
10:56If you can unzip yourself in public, even though it's in a corner, then you deserve to be outed.
11:00But, Cyrus, do you think we talk about these issues enough?
11:04Because it never really comes up.
11:06We need to be more fixated about these civic issues because this is a clear problem with
11:12us, a lack of civic sense.
11:16Absolutely.
11:17I'm fully on for this.
11:18You know, I think we don't take it seriously.
11:21You know, with some kinds of news, you blow up stories and you're not really relevant after
11:25some time.
11:25And this is relevant 24 hours a day, seven days a week, generation after generation.
11:29And we still made no headway.
11:31Like you said, the Lexus guy or the Mercedes guy is putting fun out of the...
11:34I mean, it's all...
11:35Every day you'll see it.
11:37I mean, there's no end to that.
11:38So, again, we have to go to the beginning and start.
11:40The Indian male is defective.
11:42Let's face that.
11:43We have to fix lots of things.
11:44Okay?
11:45We have to surgically do little things here and there to make him a better person.
11:48And it's going to take...
11:49It will take one or two generations.
11:51I can't see it happening.
11:52Like, I'm a horrible Indian male, but I'm still better than some of these other guys.
11:55You know, I mean, it's just...
11:57I feel...
11:57I apologize to the women of India.
11:59I don't know what else to say.
12:00I think they are a far better species than the men.
12:02There's no question in my mind.
12:03Well, you know, I think as representing the Indian women, thank you for saying it for what
12:08it is, Cyrus.
12:08And thank you for taking the time out this evening.
12:12My pleasure.
12:13Now I have to pee.
12:15All right.
12:16Okay.
12:17All right.
12:17Bye, Cyrus.
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