Article 370: Congress' new playbook? Experts weigh in

India Today

This episode of India First examines major geopolitical and domestic developments. The show begins with the dispute surrounding a mosque located inside the Kolkata airport premises, where the state government has restricted access citing security concerns and expansion plans, drawing opposition from religious leaders.

Transcript

00:00Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savant.

00:03The ruling BJP has launched a frontal attack on the opposition Congress

00:06on the back of a statement made by a former union minister

00:10and senior Congress leader Saifuddin Sos

00:12seeking restoration of Article 370 in Jammu and Kashmir.

00:16The BJP is asked whether this is the official stand of the Congress Party

00:20and whether this is, as the BJP puts it,

00:24a toolkit being unleashed with Rahul Gandhi returning from overseas.

00:28And this has sparked off a very furious debate.

00:31On India First, we get you all sides of the story.

00:34But first, there's breaking news that's coming in from West Bengal

00:38on a critical security issue.

00:40There's a major dispute in Bengal over a mosque

00:44that's located inside the Kolkata airport premises.

00:49Now, the state government, the Shuvendu Adhikari government in Bengal

00:55has decided to restrict access to the mosque citing security concerns.

01:02You have Siddiquullah Choudhury, the West Bengal chief of Jamaat-e-Ulima-e-Hind.

01:08He has announced that he will go and offer prayers at this mosque

01:13inside the airport premises tomorrow, accompanied by local residents.

01:18Now, Siddiquullah says that if he's prevented from offering namaz at this mosque,

01:25they will stage a protest.

01:27He claims it will be a peaceful protest.

01:29He insists there will be no use of loudspeakers

01:32and there will be no namaz that is offered on the streets.

01:35There would be no ruckus.

01:37Bengal BJP President Shamik Bhattacharya has responded

01:41to Shafikullah Choudhury's plans to hold a gathering at the airport

01:47or around the airport,

01:48asserting that Chief Minister Shuvendu Adhikari's government

01:51will take appropriate measures to ensure that passengers

01:56or those using the Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose International Airport

02:01are not put to any hardship.

02:03Shamik Bhattacharya has also said

02:05that whether it's a mosque or a temple,

02:08nothing can be allowed to stand in the way

02:10of either development or security.

02:14He said,

02:15had it been a temple of Lord Hanuman

02:17instead of a mosque inside the airport,

02:20which was hampering development work,

02:23the current government would have taken

02:24exactly the same course of action.

02:27Remember,

02:28this has been a long-festering issue.

02:32Prayers at the Bankra Mosque,

02:35which is located inside the Kolkata airport premises,

02:39they've been halted since last week.

02:41The BJP government insists

02:43that the mosque's current location

02:45poses a threat to the security of the airport

02:49and to passengers and aircraft

02:51and infrastructure of the airport.

02:54It's also a hindrance

02:55in the Kolkata airport expansion plans.

02:59The state government has halted entry

03:02and proposed,

03:04they have proposed,

03:05that the mosque be relocated

03:07to another location,

03:09to another area,

03:11emphasizing that there will be no compromise

03:13with either development or safety

03:16and nobody would be allowed

03:18to hold modernization and development to ransom.

03:22Chief Minister Shubhendu Adhikari has said

03:25no one is being prevented

03:26from practicing their religion.

03:29But national security is supreme.

03:33Airport security and passengers

03:35have to come first.

03:37He insisted Kolkata is strategically

03:40a very important international airport

03:42and there cannot and should not be

03:44any compromise with security.

03:47Of course, BJP leaders say

03:48in the past,

03:49security was compromised

03:51for vote bank politics.

03:52And I'll get you all sides of that story.

03:54Listen in to some of the reactions

03:55that are coming in.

03:58I'll get you all sides of that story.

04:27I'll get you all right back.

04:33The Middle East

04:37I'll turn back.mer

04:47I'll

04:47get you on זה as well.

04:51sexual harassment dressed

04:52a verdict

04:56on

04:57I mean, I am a mother with a justice.

05:02I am a mother with a school and a teacher.

05:06We are not going to get home, but we are not going to get home,

05:14we are going to get to work.

05:18And we are going to get home when God is here.

05:44So even as Bengal Chief Minister Shuvendu Adhikari insists,

05:47nothing and no one will be permitted to compromise airport security,

05:53security of passengers, security of infrastructure, security of aircraft.

05:57Amidst the showdown over Kolkata airport mosque controversy,

06:01India today has spoken to the Jamaita Ulema, a Hind chief in Bengal, Shafi Kullah Chaudhary.

06:09He is challenging Bengal Chief Minister Shuvendu Adhikari.

06:13He said the government cannot remove the mosque.

06:16It is not under the purview of the state government.

06:20Chief Minister, in his words, cannot demolish it.

06:24Even Chief Minister does not have the power to take a decision to relocate the mosque.

06:29And the wordplay here becomes extremely important.

06:32I'll get you more on the story.

06:33But listen in to Shafi Kullah Chaudhary.

06:36Listen, Sanchalav Sahab, we live here from 40 years.

06:44In total, there is a normal school, a house under the normal.

06:50The government is not breaking.

06:53It's a different type of day.

06:58foreign

07:25सिद्धिकुला साथ देश के उनलती के लिए

07:27development के लिए

07:28अगर सरकार ये decision लेती है

07:31कि मस्जिद को relocate करना

07:33जरूरी है

07:34तो आप उसको support नहीं करेंगे

07:39तोर कहा रहे हैं

07:41उसको relocate कर रहे हैं

07:43relocate के इक्सियार नहीं है

07:45जो power मुझे नहीं है

07:47वो power

07:49सियम को भी नहीं है

07:50आप बात करके

07:53रास्ता कीजिए

07:54इसमें आप सुईकार करेंगे

07:58इसका solution

08:00बार बार कहा है

08:02आल इंडिया लेवल में

08:04एक सो साथ साल

08:05इस्टिटिएशन

08:06आल ओबर वर्ल

08:08दावड़ूम द्रेवभण

08:10नौन पॉलिटिकल

08:12हंडेट बाई हंडेट

08:14रिलिजियास एडुकेशनल है

08:17इस्टिटिएशन है

08:19पूरी दुनिया मानती है

08:21आप वहां एक, दो, तीन, चार

08:24जो बात आप कर रहें

08:26चीप मिनिस्टर कर रहें

08:28लिख करके आप दीजिये

08:34So you heard Shafiakullah Chaudhary

08:36will not permit the government

08:37to relocate the mosque

08:39and he's using the word demolish

08:41and is this mischievous

08:42because the government

08:44as of now

08:45the Shubhendu Adhikari government in Bengal

08:47so far has said

08:49security, there will be no compromise

08:52nobody will be permitted

08:54to compromise security of the airport

08:57infrastructure of the airport

08:59passengers of the airport

09:01there is some conversation

09:03about a runway coming up

09:05and you heard Shafiakullah Chaudhary

09:07say you can make your runway elsewhere

09:09but that mosque will stay there

09:11I want to quickly cut across

09:12and bring in India Today's Indrajit Kundu

09:15for more on this story

09:16Indrajit, give us a background

09:18on this and especially on the aspect

09:21of is there a threat

09:24to security of passengers

09:26and aircraft

09:27can anybody walk in

09:28just by showing an Aadhaar card

09:30and there have been reports

09:31of many fake Aadhaars

09:32doing the rounds in Bengal

09:34but what was the situation earlier

09:36what has Chief Minister

09:38Shubhendu Adhikari said

09:40Well Gaurav, this is a long-standing issue

09:43something that was not addressed

09:45by previous governments

09:46now that the BJP is in power

09:48they have put the limelight

09:50on this issue

09:51and it's a very very grave concern

09:53remember this is a 136 year old mosque

09:56but notwithstanding

09:57whether it's a mosque

09:58or a temple

09:58the fact remains

09:59on ground

10:00is that there is a structure

10:02which is just 165 metres away

10:06from the secondary runway

10:07of the Kolkata airport

10:08it's very very important

10:10aviation experts have told us

10:11that you know

10:13big aircrafts

10:14wide body aircrafts

10:16cannot land at the Kolkata airport

10:17the situation

10:18which was prevalent

10:20about a few decades back

10:21the situation on ground

10:22has changed

10:23passenger traffic has gone up

10:25the airport needs expansion

10:28emergency landings

10:30have become extremely difficult

10:31at the Kolkata airport

10:32especially due to the structure

10:35existing there

10:36and there have been

10:37multiple rounds of talks

10:38that have already taken place

10:40between government administration

10:42the airport authority of India

10:43and local stakeholders there

10:45but Siddhikullah Chaudhuri

10:46who is a resident of that locality

10:48and is also the Jamaiti Ulemae president

10:50he is now stating

10:51that the airport authority of India

10:54which has barred the entry

10:56of anybody inside right now

10:58to pray and hold namaz

11:00he is saying that they must

11:02put it out on paper

11:04they must document it

11:05and that the state government

11:06does not have a local stand-eye

11:08this is a central government issue

11:09and he is saying that

11:11the central government

11:11must hold talks

11:13with Darul Uloom Deoban

11:14now that sounds bizarre

11:16at this point in time

11:17because this is an administrative issue

11:18the state government

11:19very much is worried

11:21about the safety

11:22and security of passengers

11:23remember

11:23we already showed the visuals

11:26airport gate number 8

11:28on the boundary wall

11:29of the Kolkata International Airport

11:32there is a gate

11:33a specific gate

11:34that has been created

11:35and it has been operational

11:36for several decades

11:37mind you

11:38through which

11:39people in that locality

11:41were allowed

11:42to enter the airport premises

11:44not the airport building

11:46but the premises of the airport

11:48and reach close to the runway

11:50where the mosque is located

11:51and the only document

11:53that was seen

11:54was the Aadhaar card

11:56there is no other security check

11:57imagine what we go through

11:59when we enter the airport

12:01as a passenger

12:01there is three level security

12:03so this is something

12:05that has caused

12:06you know

12:06quite a concern

12:07amongst aviation experts

12:08but this was not highlighted

12:10earlier

12:10now with the new government

12:12in place

12:13they want to address

12:14this issue

12:15but now they are facing

12:16a lot of

12:17you know

12:17backlash

12:18especially from

12:19Muslim clerics

12:20like Siddhikullah Chowdhury

12:22who is saying

12:22that this is not merely

12:23an administrative issue

12:24but a religious issue

12:26and therefore

12:27he insists

12:27that West Bengal

12:28Chief Minister

12:29must sit

12:30in conversation

12:31with the clerics

12:32of Darul Ullun Deoband

12:34in Uttar Pradesh

12:35can any entity

12:37or an organization

12:38have a veto

12:39over administrative action

12:40in a secular India

12:42and that is the big question

12:44tomorrow

12:45they are threatening

12:45that they will

12:46try and enter

12:47are they saying

12:48they will forcibly enter

12:49or offer namaz

12:51on the road

12:51in case they are not

12:52permitted

12:52Indrajit

12:56Siddhikullah Chowdhury

12:57has clarified

12:58this is one thing

12:59that he has clarified

12:59he said

13:00that he wants

13:01to offer namaz

13:02that's why tonight

13:03also they are in talks

13:04they will try and reach out

13:06to the airport authority

13:06of India

13:07they will do that

13:08tomorrow morning

13:08prior to namaz

13:09if they are allowed

13:11access inside the mosque

13:13which they haven't

13:14since last Saturday

13:15only then

13:16they will offer namaz

13:17otherwise

13:18they will do it

13:19at their own mosque

13:19at their own residence

13:20and they want to protest

13:22register their protests

13:23peacefully

13:23through offering namaz

13:25is what he has said

13:26and he has asked

13:27Muslims across West Bengal

13:28to do the same

13:29across districts

13:30so clearly

13:31even though he is

13:32challenging the chief minister

13:33and his own purview

13:35and his jurisdiction

13:36but as far as

13:37offering namaz

13:38tomorrow is concerned

13:39he is saying

13:40that he leaves

13:41the ball

13:41in the court

13:42of the AAI

13:43airport authority

13:44of India

13:44ok

13:45is it going to be

13:47some of these

13:48clerics first

13:49religion first

13:50safety of passengers

13:52and aircraft

13:53and infrastructure first

13:54India first

13:56that's the story

13:57we will be tracking

13:58very closely

13:58Indrajit Kundu

13:59will get us

14:00details tomorrow

14:01Indrajit for the moment

14:01many thanks for joining us

14:03I now want to shift focus

14:04to our top story

14:05and that is

14:06this political slugfest

14:08between the BJP

14:09and the congress

14:09the ruling BJP

14:10has asked opposition congress

14:12to clarify its stance

14:13on former union minister

14:15and senior congress leader

14:17from Jammu and Kashmir

14:18Professor Saifuddin Sos

14:20demanding restoration

14:22of article 370

14:23and what he terms

14:25is

14:25Dakhli Khud Mukhtari

14:28for Muslim majority

14:30Jammu and Kashmir

14:31now BJP MP

14:32Sudhanshu Trivedi

14:34has sought a clarification

14:34from the leader of opposition

14:36Rahul Gandhi

14:36asking if

14:38Saifuddin Sos

14:39insists

14:39that this matter

14:40is not about restoring

14:41article 370

14:42or statehood

14:43but he's used

14:44words like

14:45Dakhli Khud Mukhtari

14:47which the BJP

14:48says means

14:49sovereignty

14:50or

14:51autonomy

14:52in Muslim

14:54majority

14:54Jammu and Kashmir

14:56and why

14:57emphasis

14:57on Muslim

14:58majority

14:59in a secular

15:00country

15:01Sunil Ji

15:02Bhatt

15:02gets you more

15:03in this report

15:19August 5th 2019

15:22a watershed moment

15:24in independent India's history

15:26parliament voted to end

15:28article 370

15:29the temporary constitutional provision

15:32that accorded special status

15:34to Jammu and Kashmir

15:35after 70 years

15:37India was officially united

15:39the debate over article 370

15:42was settled legally

15:43when the supreme court

15:45upheld the abrogation

15:46but politically

15:48the controversy

15:49has returned

15:50and congress veteran

15:52Saifuddin Sos

15:53has reignited it

15:54calling for the restoration

15:57of article 370

15:58the former union minister

16:00has urged

16:00Kashmiris

16:01to fight for the return

16:03of the region's

16:04special status

16:30this is

16:36The comments have drawn a sharp response from the BJP, which has termed them yet another

16:41Congress toolkit.

16:43Linking the timing of SOS's remark to Rahul Gandhi's return to the country, the BJP has

16:49accused the Congress of once again towing Pakistan's line, while questioning whether

16:54SOS's comments reflect the party high command's official stand.

16:58Thank you very much.

17:28This is the second part of the Supreme Court.

17:59The Congress leadership has so far not officially distanced itself from Soz's remarks.

18:05Instead, some party leaders have defended his views.

18:09Ally NC, which is in power in Jammu and Kashmir, is also backing the call.

18:28The President of India has done this for the statehood of Pornhub.

18:35The President of India has done the promise.

18:38And the President of India can also be done with the dialogue.

18:39Because Kashmir's problem is very sensitive.

19:00Nearly seven years after Article 370 was revoked and after the Supreme Court upheld the center's

19:07decision, the Congress finds itself confronting uncomfortable questions over its Kashmir

19:13narrative.

19:14By raising the bogey of Article 370 and autonomy, veteran Congress leader Saifuddin Soz has caused

19:22massive embarrassment to his party.

19:24The Congress may have distanced itself from the controversial remarks of Saifuddin Soz,

19:30but the BJP has got NF ammunition to target the Congress party.

19:34With video journalist Tel Akra Sharma, this is Sunil Bhats reporting from Jammu for India Today.

19:42Is dakhiri khud mukhtari, as Saifuddin Soz puts it, or autonomy more important than safety, security,

19:50stability, development, and an aspect that's not often talked about?

19:55Should you cast and tribes getting their due finally in Jammu and Kashmir post-370, post the 5th of August

20:022019?

20:03And why this special emphasis on Muslim-majority JNK?

20:09Why push youth in JNK back into this cycle of perpetual turmoil, instead of focusing, looking ahead towards development and

20:18progress?

20:19Look at what's happening across the border, across the line of control, in Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir.

20:25And I want to, for a moment, play out images of what's happening in Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir.

20:30Eight people were killed by Pakistani security forces.

20:33The place is up in arms.

20:35Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir, they have no food, they have no water, they have no medicines, they have no

20:40education, they have no healthcare.

20:41There are 80,000 people on the streets of Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir, and they're talking about, look at

20:47development in India.

20:49They're talking about, look at what's happening in Jammu and Kashmir.

20:53And they're saying, look at the prosperity in Jammu and Kashmir.

20:56And look at those protests in Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir.

21:00Why do some of our political leaders, why do they want to push Jammu and Kashmir back in that pre

21:06-2019 era?

21:07Joining me on India first is left-in-general D.P. Pandey.

21:10He's former Kashmir Corps commander, someone who's been posted extensively in JNK.

21:14Also with me is Professor Deorat Singh.

21:16He's a very well-respected Dalit rights activist.

21:18Nikhil Jain is a political analyst and activist, has, you know, will give us the Congress Party perspective.

21:24R.P. Singh is national spokesperson of the Bharatiya Janata Party.

21:27Nikhil Jain, permit me to ask you and explain Dakhli Khudmukhtari.

21:33Is Dakhli Khudmukhtari more important than peace, stability and development in JNK?

21:40And, sir, is there merit in the BJP asking whether this is the considered opinion of the Congress Party

21:45or some renewed toolkit, as the BJP puts it, once Rahul Gandhi came back from overseas?

21:52First to clear there, nothing, for me at least, trumps national security, peace and stability in the entire country,

22:00not just in Jammu and Kashmir, number one.

22:01Number two, I don't know what has Rahul Gandhi's foreign visit to do with this.

22:05The fact that the BJP is trying to bring Rahul Gandhi's personal visit abroad into a mix of all of

22:10this

22:10shows the non-seriousness and the very political nature of the allegations.

22:14Thirdly, and the most important and the point about what we are having this discussion,

22:17I think it's been so long that we've, you know, we've gotten used to this ill-informed narratives

22:22of the BJP over what the facts are that we often lose track of what the realities are.

22:26For example, it was Maharaja Hari Singh who signed the Instrument of Accession who wanted the inclusion of Article 370.

22:32It was Dr. Ambedkar who facilitated the inclusion of Article 370.

22:36It was the Constituent Assembly including Sardar Patel Jawaharlal Nehru who signed on it

22:40and Article 370 became a part of the Constitution.

22:42It was the Supreme Court in the 70s and 80s which considered Article 370 a permanent picture of the Constitution.

22:48Then the central government went ahead and removed Article 370 in whichever manner that they did.

22:52And even the Supreme Court judgment affirming the abrogation of Article 370 does note the constitutional irregularity in all of

23:00that.

23:00Be that as it may, all the political players in Jammu and Kashmir today seek for the restoration of statehood.

23:05And what Mr. Sos is saying is the restoration of dakili khud muktiari or internal autonomy,

23:11which is not a concept that is alien to the Indian constitution or the Indian polity.

23:15All the states in India to a certain degree have internal autonomy.

23:19They are part sovereigns when you concern them with topics of state list as under Article 246.

23:26For example, in a regular state, the central government cannot go around making laws about land.

23:32It has to be the state government.

23:34The state government has sovereignty in that situation like the central government has sovereignty in context of defense.

23:40It has autonomy, it has autonomy, and Article 370, and Article 370 was not a part of instrument of accession

23:48that was signed.

23:50But, you know, that's just a fact.

23:52Instrument of accession signed by JNK was the same as signed by other states.

23:57370 was not a part of instrument of accession.

24:00You may correct me if I am wrong.

24:02I'll get General Pandey to comment on that.

24:05But a very pertinent point that you've raised on BJP indulging in politics on the subject.

24:09I need to clarify on two things.

24:11You will clarify.

24:13You've made your opening statement.

24:14You've made your opening statement.

24:16But let me get R.P. Singh to respond to the point you've raised.

24:19Why is BJP linking Rahul Gandhi's overseas visit to Saifuddin Sos' statement?

24:25What is there to suggest that the two are linked, have anything in common?

24:29You heard Nikhil saying all of this just smacks off how…

24:34What lack of seriousness you have towards that approach, sir?

24:41Well, Gaurav, Rahul Gandhi's foreign visit will lead to such issues.

24:46He goes abroad and talks about everything is not good in India.

24:49Constitution is not being properly implemented in India.

24:52There is a problem with the election commission in India.

24:54There is a problem with the army of India.

24:55There is a problem with the courts of India.

24:57He has a certain issue abroad.

24:58And now the timing of the Mr. Sos raising the issue.

25:02When there is already a people which is happening in Pakistan-occupied Jammu-Kashmir.

25:07So at that time, giving a step to international media and to Pakistan that,

25:13oh, things are not okay either in India.

25:17Now, fact is that 370 was a temporary transitional article.

25:23It was never agreed as a permanent article and also it was never asked by the Hari Singh, Maharaja Hari

25:30Singh.

25:30It was the Sheikh Abdullah which wanted it for his part of the politics and forced by Pandit Nehru on

25:40all others.

25:41Whereas, if I remember, Ambedkar Ji was against it.

25:46But let's talk about what has changed today.

25:49After an abrogation of 370, there are more than 2.85 crore tourists every year,

25:55which used to be some blacks before 2019.

25:58Not only that, the way the Chanab, the bridge has been built up,

26:03I mean, no one had thought of this.

26:06Where IIT, I am, have been opened in Jammu-Kashmir now.

26:10Where today, there is a national flag which hoists in every village today and everyone takes pride in that.

26:15I mean, that's the difference which has happened.

26:17Before that, this is the last flag of the Jammu-Kashmir which was there,

26:23which was given to me as a gift by the then speaker.

26:25But it was difficult to raise a national flag.

26:28I suffered myself there on 26 January 2011.

26:32I hoisted along with my friends national flag.

26:34I was trashed like an animal in a Munshirambak police station

26:37and made to drink urine for hoisting the national flag.

26:40So, this is the state of where which was there.

26:42And they want 370 to be back because they want stone pelting to happen.

26:46They want terrorism to grow.

26:48Sir, that's a very grave charge that you are leveling at the Congress party

26:51that they want 370 so that stone pelting can return.

26:54I want to bring in General Pandey into this conversation.

26:56General, you've served extensively in Jammu and Kashmir

26:59both before and after the 5th of August 2019.

27:02I want to understand from you,

27:04has the security scenario improved post-2019?

27:08Is the region more stable, more peaceful?

27:12Your reading of, as somebody who's dealt with security on ground,

27:16how would you read Professor Saifuddin Sosa's statement?

27:20Look, I will not get into the politics of all this

27:23because politics is all about polarization.

27:25And polarization, especially when, as you said,

27:29that the system or there is a challenge which is happening right across in POJK.

27:34This was a time to project that what Jammu and Kashmir is today,

27:38vis-a-vis what is happening in POJK,

27:40we find a political polarization being attempted to muddy the waters,

27:46which is very, very sad.

27:48And trust me, Gaurav, you've been there yourself multiple times.

27:52Too many soldiers, police, army, Russia rifles, CRPF, BSF,

27:58and Kashmiris, Jammu, Rajowari, POJ,

28:02civilians have laid down their lives

28:04to forget those lives which have been lost,

28:07to get back the whole conflict economy

28:11based on the desires of a few politicians

28:13who want to continue to rule on the basis of division.

28:17And that is what saddens me a lot.

28:19The politicians who are supposed to be actually the bomb

28:23in the affairs of public

28:25are trying to polarize the public

28:26by using religion, region, and variety of stuff.

28:30And that is one side apart.

28:32The second, I must tell you,

28:33that our memories are short.

28:35The number of times the security forces

28:37have brought the situation back in control

28:39to a degree in which the politics can get involved

28:45and get the things permanently stabilized.

28:47And every time it is a politician who,

28:50and I don't want to lay a charge on it,

28:51but they have excited the people

28:54to ensure that we go back

28:55to what was in the times of 1990s.

28:58And that is very important.

28:59This is the longest time.

29:02And I've served,

29:03I started my first service in 1990

29:06till the time I left in 2022,

29:09when I've seen peace in some degree,

29:11which is the common public,

29:13they don't agree with what they are saying.

29:16But when you see the mind

29:18of religion in the people,

29:20the exclusion part,

29:21the narrative, and very subtle,

29:23and I'm sorry to,

29:24I generally don't disagree

29:26with the people who come on the panel.

29:28Ambedkar never wanted it.

29:29Please go back and read the history.

29:31Ambedkar was strict.

29:32Ambedkar was very, very clear.

29:34He, in fact, did not even draft.

29:36Somebody was pushed in.

29:38They say people need to history correctly.

29:40And secondly,

29:42it was a temporary provision.

29:44370 was temporary provision

29:45to deny rights.

29:47Or, you know,

29:48a lot of people say

29:49it was a bridge

29:50between India and Jammu and Kashmir.

29:52I'm sorry.

29:52It was a whip.

29:54It was a card,

29:55it was a canard

29:55used against India

29:58or to ensure that it is...

29:59There was no requirement

29:59for 370 in the first place.

30:01You're absolutely right.

30:02You're absolutely right.

30:03I want to bring in

30:04Professor Devaraj Singh.

30:05I want to bring in

30:06Professor Devaraj Singh

30:07into this conversation.

30:10Professor,

30:11those scheduled castes,

30:13scheduled tribes,

30:14they were denied their rights

30:15under Central Reservation

30:17pre-2019, sir.

30:19Is that correct

30:20that people did not have

30:22their rights,

30:23SCST rights,

30:25RTI,

30:26so many other things,

30:27they didn't exist in JNK

30:28because of the so-called

30:29special status.

30:31Are those social welfare schemes

30:33and constitutional safeguards

30:35now extended to everybody

30:36in JNK, sir?

30:42Look, Gaurab ji,

30:44I want to get a little bit

30:45back to the situation.

30:47Yes.

30:47I like that.

30:49I mean,

30:49I want to get 3

30:50on-checkable,

30:51if I want to get

30:53to Pakistan,

30:54then I will get

30:57to Pakistan.

30:57I will get to the

30:58And I will get

31:16to the

31:19foreign

31:23foreign

31:24foreign

31:25foreign

31:33foreign

31:36foreign

31:38and overall perspective, if we look at it, all the people who are probably

31:42in the country have not been banned before the country.

31:49And those who have been banned, have not been banned from the country.

31:53So this is different from Dalit.

31:54Dalit is the truth and truth and truth.

31:58They have not been banned from the country.

32:01They have not received a scholarship, they have not received an admission,

32:03they have not received a job.

32:04They have not received a job, they have not received a job,

32:06they have not received a job.

32:07So this is one of them.

32:09I think that if you can see it,

32:14that the Dalit will be used,

32:17the first of all,

32:20they wanted to have a dignity, unity and unity.

32:25This is not the same.

32:45I want to bring in Nikhil Jain once again into this conversation, sir.

32:49I want to bring in Nikhil Jain into this conversation once again,

32:51so that future generations understand.

32:54Sir, peace, stability, progress.

32:56That's more important.

32:58And why this special emphasis on Muslim majority Jammu and Kashmir?

33:03Where everyone takes great pride?

33:05We are a secular country, secular, secular, secular.

33:08Does secularism actually mean Muslim appeasement?

33:11That you want to emphasize on Muslim majority Jammu and Kashmir?

33:14Nobody says Hindu majority Uttar Pradesh, Hindu majority so-and-so state.

33:18Why Muslim majority JNK?

33:20Unless you want this special thing to remain?

33:24Well, first of all,

33:25I don't like to classify states as Hindu majority or Muslim majority,

33:27but my friends from the BJP all like to call India as a country entirely of Hindus,

33:32so I'll not go on to that.

33:33I would rather want to discuss on the issue that we are talking about,

33:36Article 370.

33:37First of all, Maharaja Hari Singh,

33:38I said that Maharaja Hari Singh wanted it.

33:40I never said that it was a part of the instrument of accession.

33:43Anybody is free to go read Clause 7 of the instrument of accession?

33:45No, he never wanted it.

33:46Which clearly sets out...

33:47R.P. sahab, I did not interject.

33:49Please, can you extend that courtesy to me?

33:51Please, I did not interject.

33:54What I said was, you can look at the instrument of accession.

33:57Clause 7 clearly sets out that Maharaja Hari Singh,

34:00as the sovereign of the Jammu and Kashmir princely state,

34:03is not binding himself to any future constitution of India.

34:06This is a document signed on the 26th of October 1947,

34:09and the constitution of India was only formally adopted on the 26th of November,

34:141953, years later, number one.

34:16Number two.

34:16Gopala Swami Aingar was not somebody who drafted the constitution of Jammu and Kashmir,

34:20he was somebody who drafted Article 370, the clause within the constitution.

34:24Next.

34:25I said that Dr. Ambedkar facilitated it,

34:28and as the chairman of the drafting committee of the constitution,

34:31he facilitated it.

34:32I am not saying he supported it,

34:33I am not saying he refused it.

34:35There is no documentary evidence,

34:36either in terms of his own writings,

34:38letters or constituent assembly debates,

34:40that points to either.

34:42There is nothing to show that Ambedkar wanted it,

34:44there is nothing to show that Ambedkar did not want it,

34:46but obviously he did facilitate it,

34:48because Article 370, let's remember,

34:50is part of the original draft of the constitution,

34:52that was approved while Ambedkar was still the chairman of the drafting committee of the constitution.

34:56Lastly, this idea of asymmetric federalism that we have,

35:00that some states have greater degree of autonomy over other states,

35:03is not something that's unique only to Jammu and Kashmir.

35:05That applies to Gujarat, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Tilangana, Nagaland, Manipur.

35:10And in a very sensitive border state, you want to continue harping on it.

35:15On a very sensitive border state,

35:17where you have external elements like Pakistan,

35:20you know, messing around, fishing in troubled waters.

35:23That is the point that BJP is asking,

35:26is Congress playing Pakistan's game?

35:28That's the point AAPI Singh raises.

35:30I will respond to that as well.

35:32What was the BJP doing when Pehelgaan terror attack happened?

35:36Did they not have the police?

35:37Did they not have the BSF?

35:38Did they not have the army?

35:39Did they not have the CRPF in the state of Jammu and Kashmir under their control?

35:43It was squarely under the control of Prime Minister Modi and Home Minister Amit Shah.

35:47Yet a dastardly terror attack like that happened,

35:49and the government of India could not prevent it.

35:51I am not going to get into whatever response action was taken,

35:55what sort of politics was played,

35:56could the attack be prevented?

35:57No, but seriously.

35:58So, you would rather blame your internal government and not the perpetrator,

36:02Aasem Munir and Pakistan.

36:04Is that the game that we will play with terror in India?

36:06Of course I will blame them.

36:07No, no, seriously.

36:09You know, you may want to score political points,

36:11but I would at least expect you to keep India first

36:14when you are dealing with Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror.

36:18I am, I am.

36:19Please do.

36:21You may blame everyone.

36:23So, there is this tendency to blame Congress for 2611.

36:26There is this tendency to blame BJP for parliament attack.

36:29None of you keep in mind both are Pakistan state-sponsored terror.

36:34So, you keep fighting with each other when Pakistan continues to bleed us.

36:37Those are Pakistan state-sponsored acts of terror.

36:41Pakistan is a terror state.

36:42It was the UPA government that moved for the inclusion of Pakistan

36:45in the grey list of the FATF.

36:47Modi government has also made some strides in that.

36:48They may not have been very successful, but it doesn't matter.

36:51I think all of us on the panel,

36:52one thing that everyone will agree is that Pakistan is a terror state

36:56that sponsors terror into India,

36:58whether it is the Pahlgham terror attack or the Pulwama terror attack

37:01or 2611 or parliament attack

37:03or the number of other attacks that have happened across governments.

37:06But I, as an Indian citizen,

37:08I am going to hold the UPA government to account

37:11for not being able to prevent 2611,

37:13the Modi government to account for not being able to prevent

37:16the Uri attack or the Pulwama attack or the Pahlgham attack.

37:19I am to ask questions of my government.

37:21Not in this country.

37:22Not in this country.

37:22But the very pertinent point that you raise,

37:24and I want to get R.P. Singh to respond,

37:26to BJP not being able to fulfill the promise of statehood

37:30even seven years later.

37:32Saifuddin's source says,

37:33you can't keep a state indefinitely as a union territory.

37:37So, while you may want to blame Pakistan and external factors,

37:41your own people, why not give them statehood?

37:47Well, Gaurav, I will come to the statehood part after my first point.

37:51The issue is that has any of the senior congressmen,

37:55Mr. Kharge or Rahul Gandhi,

37:56criticized the demand of the Khud Mukhtari?

38:01I mean, has he criticized that,

38:03okay, we are against the,

38:05for abrogation of, sorry,

38:07we are against that 370 should be implemented back?

38:09Have anyone said so?

38:11No, they won't say so,

38:12because they want 370 to be back in Kashmir,

38:15because it suits their appeasement politics,

38:17because it suits their message across the country

38:20and across the border also.

38:22And on 6th of November 2024,

38:25a resolution was passed in the assembly,

38:27where all six members of the Congress party

38:30supported the resolution of bringing 370 back.

38:33So, this is the problem.

38:35And again, as far as statehood goes,

38:37statehood will come,

38:39let the peace be there,

38:40let the things be a little more normal.

38:42Okay.

38:42Obviously, we are committed for the statehood,

38:44statehood, even in the court,

38:45and also otherwise...

38:46But I want to bring in General Pandey

38:47on a very critical safety issue,

38:50on a security issue and stability issue,

38:52because General Pandey,

38:53beyond the security scenario,

38:55when you look at the situation across the line of control,

38:58when you look at what's happening in POJK,

39:01we have peace, stability and development,

39:04but some fear, and you tell me this,

39:06will, if 370 is restored,

39:10if JNK is given that so-called special status,

39:12and if, you know, all of that is done

39:16in the current scenario with an external element,

39:18is there a fear, instead of consolidation

39:20of safety and security,

39:23the situation could slide back once again?

39:26Yeah.

39:26First, I'll just say one very quick point.

39:30Today, what you see that people who are moving,

39:32there are voices, there are sane voices

39:34which come about,

39:35after a long time in Zammu and Kashmir,

39:37and especially in Kashmir,

39:39is something which is new.

39:41Such kind of a talk,

39:42which comes by various political parties,

39:45will push those sane voices into quietness,

39:48because it is very easy to come out

39:51and be critical of a government or people

39:54or whichever part in the center or state is,

39:58but it's very difficult when the fear comes back.

40:01Today, there are a large number of people

40:03who take tricolor on their shoulder,

40:06they wear it as a badge of honor.

40:09What was not there earlier,

40:11and I don't want to get into the government

40:13and part who was in center

40:15and who was in state and everything.

40:16So let's be very,

40:17it has taken a huge time to come about,

40:19and therefore, I'll request the panelists

40:22and everybody outside that understand

40:25that you're looking at a security situation

40:27which has been not only perpetuated

40:30from across the border,

40:32but it's also been muddied

40:33by conflict economy benefactors

40:35who will continue to remain

40:37to polarize population inside,

40:40to ensure that they continue to remain

40:42in the latest position

40:43and get into power all the time.

40:45So this may happen in the nation,

40:47it may happen locally,

40:48I don't care about it.

40:49But the fact is,

40:50for the interest of people of Jammu and Kashmir,

40:53manage, understand what is security about.

40:55The second point,

40:56this point which is raised,

40:57and there is nobody from the army

40:59or police or CRP

41:02are sitting in this panel.

41:04Therefore, I need to respond

41:05about this attack

41:07which happened in Behalgaam.

41:08I will just repeat, Gaurav,

41:10and I think you must have heard this.

41:12A terror attack by a committed enemy will happen,

41:19but you need to see what else is happening

41:22in the entire Kashmir.

41:24So if tourism is booming,

41:26there's a peace, stability, economy,

41:28infrastructure is developing,

41:29and one terror attack happens,

41:31and you start concentrating on the terror attack

41:33as a failure of government.

41:35Please go back to the government,

41:36but don't get and start telling that army was there,

41:40police was there, security forces was there,

41:42and how these slaps happened.

41:45When people break rants in politics

41:49from under the chair,

41:50and they get across to some other people,

41:52people don't comment.

41:54Don't ever try and comment on the commitment

41:56of the security forces,

41:57and that is my request to the people

42:00who are on the panel and otherwise.

42:01And I'm not into politics,

42:03but I speak straight.

42:03There is an external enemy that we are fighting,

42:05but when you fight the enemy across,

42:08peace and stability,

42:09they just can't make an adverse comment

42:11about the commitment of our forces

42:13who are deployed there,

42:14who are willing to die for death.

42:16Because it's only the security forces

42:18and the civilians who are actually shedding their blood,

42:20dealing with Pakistan state-sponsored

42:22radical Islamist terror.

42:24Professor Dr. Delora Singhdesk.

42:26In the morning,

42:27when people see these people

42:27at PAXsis label,קashopeisha

42:28Square culture ー. , more or less

42:31Ohh, there isn't becoming

42:32a direct condition. They're talking about

42:35проб and which wFl chir

42:37Rio polls, who have no children

42:39and smoke acontecer. And,

42:43successful people dxeb

42:43her family

42:44at the age of Pakistan조

42:45her has been killed by. In

42:47such a terrible situation,

42:48when people dave Clearly

42:49kashmir se tulna karthay wolek tulna karthay

42:51aur wolek kaitay india kitna acha hai

42:53hamarai apnei andar wolete ki 370

42:55leho kya kai ye kumzori

42:57dekhte hai ap system

43:01nae nae

43:02mai isko eek

43:03joh system ki joh kumzori

43:05rahi hai meh yahan pa protection

43:07joh mein kukai anususi jati

43:08ke joh log hai

43:10unke adhikarhoke unke liye samajik

43:13nia hai unke arthik nia hai

43:14unke joh rajnitik nia hai

43:16unnei milega

43:17kia kukusse pahle joh istititi

43:19thi a a a meh

43:21Yogiindranath mandal ji kaa apnei

43:23suna hooga pada hooga pahle

43:24to kis tarah se unnohne

43:26dalito ko wohaan

43:28joh da joh eek

43:30compromise hoa ta eek agreement hoa ta

43:32usi tarah ka agreement tha

43:34kis tarah se use kiya jayega

43:36joh kam unneh dye jayenge

43:38lékin unka joh moho

43:40ta kaisa bhangh hoa

43:41joh pura dekta hai

43:43kya ho dalito ko kitna

43:49foreign

43:52foreign

43:53foreign

44:00foreign

44:02foreign

44:04foreign

44:04chappesti के उगरेशन के लिए open किया गया जो सफाई करमचारी आने करें किया आ पर वह उनकी आगया

44:26क्या क्या का हुआ है उनको रखा bedroom कितानि हो चाहे जम्मू कश्मीर हो तो उसी तरह

44:32I can believe that it was done by the way.

44:35And this is the need for everyone to think.

44:37Because the country is not the same.

44:39The country is not the same as a king.

44:42And I want our viewers to really think about this.

44:45Whatever politics you may indulge in, do keep one thing in mind.

44:48Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of India and has to be strengthened against not just enemies across,

44:55but even those within who may be benefiting the enemy across.

44:59And we'll be tracking that story very closely.

45:01I want to thank all my guests.

45:02There's been a dramatic escalation in the war in West Asia.

45:06The United States has unleashed a seven-hour-long missile strike across the southern part of Iran.

45:13So Qashem Island, there are multiple blasts that are being heard there.

45:16Pandar Abbas, Chabahar, it's been a seven-hour-long operation.

45:20Iranian media has reported explosions in several southern parts of the country.

45:24They've also reported blasts in Lourastan in the west and Senman in the north.

45:30Air defenses have been triggered in various parts, including in capital Tehran.

45:36So we are told parts of the Semman airport have also been targeted in this fresh bout of shelling and

45:43rocket attacks and missile attacks by the United States of America.

45:46Iran is now threatening that it will not just ensure that the Strait of Hormuz remains shut, but they'll also

45:53shut Babal Mandab Strait, which is the gateway to the Red Sea in response to the renewed U.S. strikes.

45:59There are reports that Iran has reached out to the Houthi rebels in Yemen and they've asked them to be

46:07on standby.

46:08The moment, as an instruction from Iran, they want the Red Sea route to be shut if U.S. strikes

46:14intensify and specifically if Iran's power infrastructure is targeted.

46:21The Iranian army has issued a warning saying attacks will now spread to newer areas if U.S. air and

46:27missile strikes continue.

46:29Tehran has also accused Washington, D.C. of carrying out a barbaric attack after a cancer hospital in southwestern Iran

46:38was forced to evacuate more than 200 patients during heavy aerial bombardment in the area, very close to this cancer

46:47hospital.

46:48I want to quickly cut across and bring in senior journalist Sandeep Unnitan, who's been tracking developments on the story

46:52closely.

46:52Sandeep, this would be the world's worst nightmare with Iran now threatening to shut Babal Mandab after the Strait of

46:59Hormuz.

47:00Absolutely, Gaurav. And, you know, this is the worst kind of fighting that we've seen in the last five days.

47:06It's the most intense series of attacks by the United States.

47:10Iran has threatened to destroy all critical infrastructure in the region if these attacks continue, if their infrastructure is targeted.

47:18And, of course, as you mentioned, there is that option that they have, which is the Houthis, which had not

47:23entered the fray until now.

47:24There is a ceasefire that the Houthis had declared a few months back.

47:29That's been holding so far.

47:30But if this attack, these attacks continue, the Houthis have said they are open to shutting the Babal Mandab as

47:37well.

47:37That would mean that three of the choke points, two of the three choke points around the Arabian Peninsula have

47:42been blocked, Gaurav.

47:43So, it's a very tense situation currently.

47:47It's a hair-trigger moment.

47:48But the most interesting part is that the ceasefire itself holds.

47:52That, whatever, you know…

47:54You know, holds perhaps only in name, Sandeep.

47:56It's only in name.

47:57But this seven-hour-long, the seven-hour-long intense bombing, there are reports that U.S. may just escalate

48:03now.

48:04And there are reports that seem to suggest that President Trump, on his table, has the option of limited ground

48:11attack, ground strikes,

48:13to take control either of Keshem Island or Khark Island and completely weaken Iran's air defenses along the southern coastal

48:20belt.

48:21But that's easier said than done, Sandeep.

48:23Yeah, absolutely, Gaurav.

48:24And, you know, this is now the whole…

48:25The action is basically moved to the Strait of Hormuz.

48:28Now, gone are the talks about the nuclear enrichment and the ballistic missiles and all of that.

48:35One objective that the United States has is to somehow degrade Iran's capability to blockade the Strait of Hormuz,

48:42to raise the costs of doing so on the Iranian war machine.

48:47They've not been able to do that because Iran has demonstrated a tremendous capacity to absorb punishment.

48:53And that is something that the United States is trying to, you know, they're pushing the boundaries of that kind

48:59of punishment

49:00that we're seeing in the last couple of hours, Gaurav.

49:02It only, you know, opens up probably more dangerous options like you mentioned.

49:09The possibility that the U.S. could actually physically go in and try and capture one or more of those

49:15islands

49:15that Iran uses to control the Strait of Hormuz.

49:19But given the scenario right now, I mean, even though there are reports that say that U.S. president

49:25has this option of ground attack on his table, when you look at the situation militarily,

49:30either tactically or strategically, America is not in a position to do so.

49:34It does not dominate from the air.

49:36It does not dominate on sea.

49:38It does not dominate on land at all.

49:41Iran's been able to strike back and strike back at will.

49:43In fact, Iran has threatened to widen the arc of retaliation and that would send global economy in tailspin.

49:51Can America actually undertake even a limited ground operation without massive fatalities on ground both sides?

49:59It's very difficult for them to do so, Gaurav, because, you know, the problem is that the United States

50:03went into this thinking that this was going to be a military contest.

50:07And what Iran has demonstrated over the last couple of months is its ability to escalate,

50:11not just vertically, but horizontally as well.

50:14And that is something that has taken the United States by surprise,

50:17the fact that they did not anticipate this level of escalation of the conflict.

50:22And the more the United States hits Iran, the wider Iran attempts to escalate the conflict across West Asia

50:31to make that distribute the pain across West Asia to all the GCC countries.

50:36So this is a very tough moment for the United States, Gaurav.

50:39It is not, no easy options for them.

50:41It's not a, you know, a one-on-one contest because Iran has clearly, as it's shown,

50:47its ability to widen the arc of conflict and, you know, to act in unpredictable ways

50:52is what is leading to these kind of, you know, attacks and bombings.

50:56So the U.S. is trying to break that impasse.

50:58They're not getting any, you know, easy solutions out.

51:01As I mentioned, the Iranian capacity for absorbing punishment is enormous.

51:07And the kind of attacks that they've been under the past couple of months.

51:09Absorbing and then inflicting punishment because now it's extending way beyond GCC countries.

51:13Yes, they've hit Gulf Cooperation Council countries,

51:16but if they're threatening to shut both the state of Hormuz and Bab al-Mandab,

51:20it's the global economy that will be in tailspin.

51:23What is worse, there are some analysts who argue that the worst escalation is yet to come.

51:30And that's the story we'll be tracking very closely.

51:33Sandeep, for the moment, many thanks for joining me.

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