- 5 weeks ago
Ahead of the upcoming monsoon session of parliament, the BJP-led NDA is preparing to reintroduce the crucial the Constitution (131st Amendment) Bill on women's reservation and delimitation of Lok Sabha constituencies while linking the two.
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00:00So is the BJP going to push ahead with its Mission 360 at any cost?
00:05The delimitation bill, is it now Modi government's top agenda to in a sense secure its power in the country?
00:13Is the government trying to redraw India's political map once and for all?
00:18Now that the opposition is divided and many say demoralized, is it a clear advantage to the BJP?
00:25Joining me now is JVL Narsima Rao, former Rajya Sabha MP and senior leader of the BJP.
00:31I'm also joined by Brajesh Kalappa, National Spokesperson Congress, by Ghansham Tiwari of the Samajwadi Party and Clyde Crasto, National
00:40Spokesperson NCP Sharad Pawar.
00:43JVL Narsima Rao, to you first.
00:45Am I right to say that the BJP is going into this session with one single agenda, Mission 360, Sam
00:52Daam Dandabhed?
00:53You will break parties, you've done it with the Sena UBT, you've done it with the TMC.
00:58You want to do whatever it takes now to reach that magical number of 360 and get a two-thirds
01:04majority to pass delimitation along with women's reservation.
01:08Rajdeep, good evening to you, all the panelists and the viewers.
01:14This agenda was a very important legislative agenda for the BJP and that is the reason why we brought in
01:22into this into a special sitting of parliament in April this year.
01:28And if different parties have changed their stance or if parties have really split because of their own internal contradictions,
01:37you cannot say if we had the will to do it, if we only wanted to do it, we could
01:42have done this in March itself, in April itself.
01:45So what has happened after April is the public mandate in West Bengal, which actually clearly punished parties which have
01:54voted against this bill in different states.
01:57In West Bengal, I think we won a landslide victory because people rejected Trenemul on this.
02:03DMK went into elections, making this a major election agenda, criticizing the bill, but they got routed.
02:12So therefore, the public mood is very much in favor of implementing this legislative agenda, this reform agenda.
02:20This country, given its vast size, given the massive expansion of our population, we certainly need a much larger parliament
02:29to serve the needs of the people.
02:32I think a country which is much smaller than us, like UK has had, always had 650 members in their
02:39house of, in their lower house of parliament.
02:42So India certainly needs a bigger house and also needs a representation for women.
02:49We already have a women's reservation passed by parliament with support from all political parties from across the political spectrum.
02:57And therefore, we expected a similar support forthcoming for the Constitution Amendment Bill, 131st Constitution Amendment Bill, as well as
03:07a delimitation bill.
03:08And this delimitation is not happening for the first time.
03:11We have had a delimitation commission constituted in 1976, when the Congress was in power, based on 1971 census.
03:19We have also had a delimitation commission constituted post-2002 delimitation bill, which actually got carried out during the UPA
03:29era.
03:29And the delimitation came into effect post-2008, based on 2001 census.
03:36So what is this, all this fuss about?
03:39This is what happened for the first time.
03:41What is the fuss about?
03:42Because let me just explain to our viewers, we should have an explainer.
03:45What is the delimitation bill?
03:47Effectively, we have 543 constituencies in the Lok Sabha.
03:51Now, this is the last time there was delimitation was, remember, in 1971.
03:55Since then, the number of constituencies have been frozen.
03:59How do they go up from 543?
04:02The government now says that they will have over 800 constituencies in the country.
04:07And the delimitation exercise of redrawing the map will take place.
04:12It's happened in 1971.
04:13It's happened at various times.
04:15But the number of constituencies have remained the same since 1971, including by Vajpayee's government.
04:21I want to get you, Brajesh Kalappa.
04:24GBL Narsimha Rao is saying, why is the opposition, particularly the Congress, so scared of delimitation?
04:29What is it in delimitation that frightens you?
04:32Indira Gandhi, 1971, delimitation happened.
04:35Why in 2026 should Narendra Modi not make an effort?
04:39The population of India has doubled since 1971.
04:43Why not have delimitation?
04:48See, Rajdeep, I think the answer is very clear.
04:51The fact is that you are linking the women's reservation to delimitation and to the census,
04:58which was a wholly unnecessary exercise.
05:00As Mr. Narsimha Rao has very eloquently stated, this passage of the Women's Representation Act was passed unanimously in Parliament.
05:10And this was way back in 2023.
05:13Where was the difficulty to have it brought into effect?
05:17No.
05:18The idea is to try and draw some political mileage out of it.
05:23And this ultimately did not work in West Bengal because ultimately the BJP had to rely on the exercise called
05:30the SIR.
05:31And the SIR exercise is the only thing that got the BJP a victory because it is clear today that
05:3731 lakh contestants were there
05:40and the BJP won by 30 lakh votes.
05:43So, therefore, the point is that the BJP is only showing the people of the country an illusory image so
05:53that they can rework the numbers in Parliament.
05:57And through this exercise of SIR, they have now been able to break the TMC and bolster its numbers.
06:04They have done the very same thing with the UBT and with the ARP.
06:08Now, point is this, that there is a lady and we are now concerned about the Women's Reservation Bill Act.
06:16There is a lady who has rejected a suitor and that suitor has been rejected on account of the fact
06:23that he is an alcoholic and he is a wife beater and so on and so forth.
06:26Now, just merely because he comes with a new set of clothes, suited and booted, he is not going to
06:33be accepted again.
06:34I think the BJP ought to understand this.
06:36Merely bolstering their numbers by this manner, by sheer horse trading, is not going to help them.
06:44Because ultimately, people have seen through their game.
06:47So, this is something which I think the BJP leadership must keep in mind.
06:50No, no, let me get this very clear.
06:52Try to confuse the people with all kinds of issues.
06:54No, no, Mr. Kalappa, let me get this clear.
06:55Is the Congress Party saying that if delimitation is delinked from Women's Reservation, you have no problem with it?
07:04Am I to understand that for you, it's about linking delimitation with Women's Reservation?
07:09What is the problem?
07:10Is it that southern states…
07:11They're scared of elections.
07:13No, no, one minute.
07:14One of the concerns is that the southern states could lose out.
07:17Is that the feeling?
07:18The government is saying we will increase 50% proportionately all over the country.
07:24So, if Tamil Nadu will go from 39 seats that they have at the moment, they will add another 20
07:29seats there.
07:30So, they'll go to 60.
07:31UP will go from 80 to 120.
07:33So, proportion will remain the same.
07:39The Congress Party is concerned with the fact that it was Mrs. Gandhi's idea originally to have a Women's Reservation
07:46Act and so on and so forth.
07:48Because I think the fact that you have Rajivji also 33% and so on and so forth.
07:53So, we have a long, you know, we have always had stakes in this entire exercise.
07:58Now, to link this…
07:59No, sir, you don't want to give BJP credit.
08:00You are saying that you're worried that BJP will take credit for Women's Reservation.
08:05Is that your worry?
08:09No, no, no, no.
08:10There's no question of taking reservation credit.
08:13That is not the point.
08:14The point is that as far as reservation is concerned, that's something which the Congress has always spoken for and
08:21will always continue to do.
08:23But trying to link it now to the census effort and to the delimitation, I think, takes away from the
08:30act.
08:30Takes away from the fact that women are going to be unpowered.
08:33Ultimately, the point is to give the women a poorer deal than the better one.
08:40Okay, just a minute.
08:43You see, GVL, Narasimha Rao, you have 543 MPs now.
08:46You can bring in Women's Reservation, which has already been cleared and have 181 male MPs.
08:51You're not doing that.
08:52Instead, you've linked it to delimitation and going back to the 2011 census.
08:56There seems to be an unusual hurry that you want to do it so that it comes in 2029.
09:02And thereby, you are hoping to expand your footprint.
09:04This is about politics, a political agenda to expand your power base, not about women's reservation.
09:12And the southern states are worried they will lose out.
09:15Rajdeep, I think I hear a lot of confusing arguments.
09:19I think the Congress is not concerned.
09:21They're confused.
09:22An entire opposition is confused.
09:24Let me flip this question.
09:26What is the difficulty?
09:28You're saying why should we implement women's reservation so early?
09:32We have waited for 40 years.
09:34No, no, I'm saying implement it now.
09:36No, no, Mr. Narasimha Rao, you can implement it tomorrow morning using 543?
09:42No, you cannot implement it.
09:44Why?
09:45Because it said, no, no, the 106th constitutional amendment that was passed in the House said the delimitation carried out,
09:55sorry, census carried out after 2026 will be the basis for a women's reservation.
10:02And without amending that bill, you cannot do it tomorrow as you wish.
10:07I think that bill has to be, act has to be amended.
10:09And if it has to be implemented in total, 2027 census results will not be available for delimitation before 2029,
10:19which means women of this country have to wait until 2034 for women's reservation to actually become a reality.
10:26So this government wants to, wants, you see, this is possibly, this could have been thought of earlier,
10:31but because in this time frame, this is not happening, we decided to amend the act.
10:36It's a simple amendment.
10:38If you have no problem with women's reservation, what is your problem in doing it from 29?
10:42No, no, no, Mr. Narasimha Rao, answer very quickly my question that the southern states are worried.
10:47The DMK, for example, which now may well change its mind, are worried that they will lose out.
10:52Because delimitation, one person, one vote, North Indian states get the advantage.
10:57Do you believe that the 50% rule is a fair rule?
11:00Absolutely.
11:01I think Honorable Home Minister, I think at the end of this debate, before the voting,
11:06he actually offered to change right into the bill and bring a fresh bill into the house.
11:13And people were not convinced at that time.
11:15And people of this country see the logic.
11:18If you're saying 50% increase will happen across the board, it almost means you have a freeze on the
11:25number of seats.
11:26And why should political parties, you see, southern parties, some of them may have this irrational logic.
11:32But what is it about Samajwadi party?
11:34What is it about Rashtri Janta Dal?
11:36Are they also opposing this because they don't want an increase in the number of seats?
11:40Let me ask that question.
11:43Let me raise that question.
11:45First, I'll come to you, Ghancham Tiwari, and then I'll come to you.
11:48Ghancham Tiwari, the question that is being raised by GVL Narsimha Rao.
11:51Is the Samajwadi party opposed if UP's number of seats are increased from 80 to 120, 50%?
11:57Do you want that increase or not?
11:59Why is the Samajwadi party opposing delimitation?
12:02Good evening, Rajiv.
12:03Thank you, my fellow co-op panelists and the viewers.
12:05There are five important points that I will relate together.
12:08And please allow me to complete those five simple points.
12:11One, basic statistics of BJP says, let's start with Women's Reservation Bill and delimitation together.
12:17The April session, where 130 members of parliament spoke, 70 from opposition.
12:22And they nuanced every aspect.
12:24These are 70 MPs from across the country.
12:26And the highlight of that conversation is, if you look at Manipur, that has been burning for nearly 1200 days.
12:33Parliament has met for roughly 180 days since Manipur has been burning.
12:38Manipur has barely any representation.
12:41And as a result, there is no voice.
12:42That is the example of what the BJP model of delimitation does.
12:46Why does BJP want it?
12:47I'll tell you another statistic.
12:49BJP total has roughly 2000 MPs and MLAs.
12:52Of this, only 10%.
12:53180 to 200 are women.
12:55Of this, 755 to 800 are MPs and MLAs with criminal charges.
13:00Of this, 700 to 830 are leaders who have defected into BJP from other parties.
13:06So, today, BJP has four times more criminals than women.
13:10So, definitely, it is not about Women's Reservation Bill.
13:12Then what is it about?
13:13It is not about representation.
13:16It is about a word called scam that BJP wants.
13:19What is scam?
13:20The scam is sabotage.
13:22C is corruption.
13:24A is arm twisting.
13:25And M is manipulation.
13:26This is a party that in the last 12 years have amassed 20 to 25,000 crore.
13:32Any of your viewers can Google it.
13:35They will know that BJP has so much donations.
13:36So, a 25,000 crore party is an empire.
13:39No, so how will delimitation change it?
13:41Ghan Shabdiwari, why are you all worried about 80 seats going to 120?
13:47No, I am saying, the point I am trying to make, Rajdeep, is that BJP wants to capture the democracy
13:52of the country.
13:53As a result, it wants to throttle the caste censors.
13:58It wants to throttle women themselves.
14:00It wants to delay everything.
14:01And it wants to put a model of delimitation that has been practiced in Assam.
14:06It wants to put a model of delimitation that forever captures the democracy of India.
14:12So, you are saying that the BJP's delimitation exercise will change the constituencies like it did in Assam to favor
14:19the BJP so that they can capture democracy in 2029.
14:23In your view, therefore, this is not a genuine delimitation exercise, but an exercise to capture total power at all
14:30costs.
14:30Am I correct?
14:31Here is a summary.
14:32In your words, here is a summary from the parliament debate where 130 MPs spoke.
14:36They said, do the census, include caste censors, allow women reservation, and then come to delimitation.
14:43It's a very simple step.
14:44This is 130 members of parliament spoke in a special session which was, eventually, BJP was repeated.
14:50So, if BJP does not hear the voice of the parliament, because it's the scam, sabotage, corruption,
14:56harvesting and manipulation and capture the democracy.
14:59Okay.
14:59You made that point.
15:00I want to come to you, Clyde Crasto, because Supriya Suley has set the cat among the pigeons.
15:05This is a party that opposed delimitation along with other opposition parties in April.
15:09Now, you've got a situation where she says, if the government is uniformly increasing the numbers by 50% across
15:16states,
15:16she's ready to consider it.
15:17It seems that the opposition, including your party, is now slowly moving towards the NDA viewpoint.
15:24Absolutely not, Rajneep.
15:26When you talk about it, talk in totality.
15:29When she says we'll consider, and also the fact of the matter, we consider not alone.
15:33Along with the India blog, along with the Congress, along with the Shiv Sena UBT, we'll all come together, discuss
15:39together.
15:39There has to be an all-party meeting.
15:41Everything has been said by her.
15:43The fact of the matter is that whatever is being done by the Bhatia Janata Party to bring this delimitation
15:48bill together,
15:49it's an absolutely thought-out process.
15:51Now, I heard my friend Jivalji saying that, you know, this cannot be implemented until 2034.
15:57So, the point is, you started off in such a way.
16:00It was a very nice, conniving and very smart way to do it.
16:02Put it together along with the delimitation and women reservation.
16:05So, if you do not vote for it, then you call the opposition as anti-women.
16:09But if you are so pro-women, deliming both, bring it together.
16:13Like you said, we can implement it tomorrow morning.
16:15Why are they not doing it?
16:16It's their government.
16:17It's their numbers.
16:18It's their majority.
16:19No, no, but you answer.
16:20I take your point, but you answer.
16:21Are you ready?
16:22Is Supriya Suleys a sign that the NCPSP is willing to reach out to the government on delimitation?
16:28Yes or no?
16:29No, we have to consider.
16:31We need to wait and see what the draft is, read about the whole thing, what are the pointers,
16:36talk together with our India Bloc people, come together and then we will see what has to be done.
16:40Let it be introduced first.
16:42You can say whatever you want to say, but let it be introduced first and then we'll consider the whole
16:46thing,
16:47how it is played out.
16:48Okay, now let me tell you.
16:50Not alone.
16:51Just a minute, sir.
16:51I'm on with the India Bloc.
16:52NDA needs two-thirds majority in Lok Sabha to push through this.
16:56The current strength of the Lok Sabha, look at the numbers,
16:58is 540, which puts the two-thirds mark at 360.
17:02Now, the NDA itself has 293 MPs.
17:06It expects the support of 20 TMC rebels who formed a party called NCPI,
17:11six Shiv Sena UBT rebels, four YSR CP MPs, one independent MP, taking its tally to 324.
17:18If the BJP then manages the support of 22 DMK MPs, eight NCP Sharad Pahar faction,
17:24the NDA tally rises to 354, just six short of the magic mark.
17:28The key, therefore, is the DMK.
17:30Now, they've not come on the show today.
17:32When I asked a DMK member to come on the show, they said they are waiting for instructions
17:36from MK Stalin on the party stand.
17:39Does that worry you, Brijesh Kalappa?
17:41Between April and now, the opposition has splintered.
17:45The TMC lost badly in Bengal.
17:47Its MPs have gone.
17:49The DMK, you ditched them to join hands with the TVK.
17:53And therefore, you have...
17:54And the Shiv Sena UBT is split.
17:56The Congress, you are partly responsible.
17:59Because you wanted a mantra like a ministry in Tamil Nadu,
18:02you ditched the DMK.
18:03Why should they stand by you today?
18:09See, Razeeb, as far as the DMK is concerned,
18:12the DMK is with the Congress Party because it believes
18:17what the Congress Party has always been stating.
18:20And both our ideas are ad item.
18:23And that's the reason the DMK is with us.
18:26But you ditched them in Tamil Nadu.
18:28You ditched them in Tamil Nadu and you want them to stand with you in Delhi.
18:34No, no.
18:35In every marriage, Razeeb, there are differences.
18:38And we have to overcome these differences.
18:41It's by the action of overcoming these differences
18:44that we move forward.
18:46And as far as the women's reservation is concerned,
18:50the DMK and the Congress Party are completely ad item.
18:55Right?
18:55First part.
18:56Second part is that as far as the numbers are concerned,
19:00numbers are a matter of concern for the government of the day.
19:05They are not going to have an easy go on this.
19:07The very fact that the larger number of voter share,
19:12vote share is with the opposition, with the India group.
19:16And it's a different matter today that they have purchased some MCs,
19:20some MPs have gone to them for various reasons.
19:23But that doesn't take away from the fact that the vote share of 2024
19:28is higher with the India bloc than with the NDA and the BJP.
19:32Sir, at the end of the day, we are a first part.
19:34I think the BJP must understand.
19:36Because I take your point,
19:39but I want to give a final word to you,
19:41GVL Narsimha Rao.
19:42Because GVL Narsimha Rao,
19:43it almost seems as if the BJP wants to redraw
19:46the political map of the country to its advantage.
19:50One of the members on the panel said,
19:52they fear what will happen in India will what happened in Assam.
19:56You cut out the constituencies which were seen to be Muslim dominated,
20:00reduce the opposition,
20:02the potential seats that the opposition could win.
20:05This is all about the BJP 2029
20:07manipulating the process of this country to have absolute dominance.
20:13Razib, I think the reality,
20:15the real fear for the opposition is
20:18they are completely out of touch with people.
20:20They are scared of facing people.
20:23They are scared of elections.
20:25And therefore, they cook up all kinds of fancy stories every election.
20:30I think this is a...
20:32There was gerrymandering done in Assam.
20:34Mr. Rao, in Assam,
20:35the way the constituencies were manipulated is well known.
20:38And the opposition and the election commission will be manipulated.
20:44There is a credibility crisis.
20:45Razib, if you say the...
20:46I think this is complete.
20:48This is a canad.
20:49This is pure a bunkum.
20:51It is an attempt to really tar the BJP negatively.
20:56This is a constitutional process that is given in the constitution.
21:00Article 82 of the constitution says
21:02a body will be established to carry out this after every census.
21:08In this country, we have not had several delimitations.
21:11But after 2008...
21:12In 2008, did the congressman...
21:14But the body will be controlled by you.
21:16The fear is the body will be controlled by you.
21:18You will decide who...
21:20Come on.
21:20This is a constitution...
21:21No, this is a body that will have a representative from the judiciary.
21:27It will have a representative from the election commission.
21:30It will also have a state election commissioner.
21:32If the congress is in power in Karnataka, do they not appoint their state election commissioner?
21:39I think it is a complete bunkum.
21:42This is only an attempt to really blame the BJP and to take away our electoral success.
21:47These are the cooked up stories that the opposition comes up with.
21:50What kind of electoral success are they talking about
21:52when they are breaking parties and taking away MPs?
21:55What parties?
21:56Are you there to...
21:57You are taking away...
21:58JBLG, come on.
22:00The world has seen...
22:01How you are breaking your people and taking away MPs from one place to the other.
22:04Are you so weak that your leader cannot inspire confidence among your own MPs?
22:09Okay, okay.
22:10You are using ICE treatment.
22:12ICE treatment is being used by your party to bring people into your party.
22:15ICE, income tax, CBI, ED, all kinds of...
22:18I think you are accusing your own party leaders.
22:21No, no, not us.
22:22There are other parties.
22:23We are safe and sound and we are happy where we are.
22:26Okay, I'm going to leave it there, gentlemen.
22:27Gentlemen, it's the news without the noise.
22:29You're calling it ICE, income tax, CBI, ED.
22:32That's another word being used now for washing machine in the past.
22:35But either way, the fact is the delimitation bill could well redraw the map of this country,
22:39which is why it will be looked at very closely.
22:42The BJP's mission 360.
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