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- #considerthis
Johor's election is shaping up to be more than a contest between the major coalitions, it's also a test for newer political parties seeking to carve out their place in an increasingly crowded political landscape. What do Johor's state elections reveal about the future of Malaysian politics? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Amira Aisya Abd Aziz, Co-Founder & President, MUDA & Former Assemblyperson for Puteri Wangsa, Johor.
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00:18Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. I'm here in Johor in the lead up to the state elections on
00:25the 11th of July.
00:26I'm here at the State Election Command Centre for Muda in JB and I'm joined today by Amira Aisyah Abdulaziz
00:34who is the co-founder and president of Muda.
00:36She's also the former assembly person for Putri Wangsa and we are smack in the middle of campaigning period.
00:44Can I just let first off the bat, I have to ask you Amira, why are you not contesting to
00:51defend your seat as the Muda Putri Wangsa assembly person?
00:56In Muda when we think of leadership, it's not just about retaining power, it's not just about retaining position.
01:03I think most importantly in Muda is when you talk about leadership, are you able to sort of make way
01:09for people who you know will be able to do the job,
01:13for new kind of leadership to go up and if you know that you are looking for, for example myself,
01:20I'm thinking about going to parliament for example
01:22and I already have that ambition, I already have the aspiration to go to parliament, I think it's only right
01:28for me to let go of my current position in order to focus for my parliamentary right.
01:34I think that is the normal culture in Malaysian politics but if you ask me personally, I personally don't feel
01:45that it's a good culture to continue
01:46because when you hold both state legislative assembly position and also parliamentarian position, you get two salaries, you get two
01:56pensions right.
01:57And most of the time, and this is something that I observed, parliamentarians who are also adun, when the seating
02:05clashes, they will not enter don't seating.
02:08And when you don't enter don't seating, you're not bringing the issues under the state jurisdiction right.
02:15And state jurisdiction and federal jurisdiction are just different.
02:18When you go to state, you talk about issues concerning land, you talk about issues concerning local councils, these are
02:24not issues you're going to bring up to the federal level.
02:27So that means if you take both responsibilities at the same time, you will not be able to carry them
02:32both effectively but also you're going to get the salary and the pension.
02:36I think this is a culture that we should not continue to perpetrate in politics.
02:40Okay, that's quite interesting.
02:42So you've made it kind of explicitly known that you want to enter politics at a federal level.
02:49What do you think you can achieve at the federal level that maybe you couldn't have achieved as an assembly
02:57person?
02:58And I will make this a double-barrel question.
03:01So that's one.
03:01The other thing is, by not contesting your seat or not defending your seat as an assembly person, do you
03:07think you are doing the constituents who voted you in a disservice?
03:11By not having that consistency, I mean, could you have achieved more if you carried on to a second term?
03:20For the first question, for the past four years since I've served as a state legislative assemblywoman for Puchiu Wangsa,
03:27I've received all kinds of reports, all kinds of problems when people came to our office.
03:34They don't only talk about issues concerning Johor Assembly.
03:38They also talk about issues concerning education.
03:40They talk about issues concerning healthcare.
03:43They talk about issues concerning institutions, right?
03:47And all these are issues that have to be fought for in parliament.
03:50And when I wanted to bring this up in state legislative assembly, for example, the furthest I can push for
03:57is to demand the state government to negotiate with federal government, right?
04:02But there's no direct, so to say, direct influence to actually influence the law regarding education, to influence the law
04:10regarding healthcare.
04:11And this is the reason why I think it's very important for me to bring not just the Puchiu Wangsa
04:16people, but also the Johorian voices in the parliamentary seat.
04:23For example, take the healthcare budget cut, right?
04:28And that's something that I brought in the state legislative assembly.
04:30And the only response I get from the healthcare ex-co is that he said, oh, we also disagree with
04:36this.
04:36But what can we do in the Johor State Legislative Assembly?
04:39This is a federal issue.
04:41And I can't debate it in Johor State Legislative Assembly.
04:43Meanwhile, for me, in a constituency where there's a big hospital here, Hospital Sultan Ismail, we know that that healthcare
04:51budget will impact so many lives.
04:55Already, our healthcare system is in the brink of collapse.
04:58We don't have enough hospital beds.
05:00We don't have enough ambulances.
05:02And if you do that healthcare budget, then we will not be able to sustain and retain.
05:06And I think these are the kind of issues that I definitely feel there has to be more voices representing
05:12the people, the interests of the people in the parliamentary system.
05:16That's number one.
05:17For the second question, whether it is a disservice to the people, I think it's a larger disservice if I
05:24think that I'm the only person that can do both jobs at the same time.
05:29I don't think that's leadership.
05:31I think that is power-hungry, that is money-hungry.
05:35And we want to avoid that, especially after serving four years with Rashifa as my chief of staff.
05:41I can see that even if I'm no longer the Adun and she serves as the Adun here, I know
05:47that she'll do even greater work than what I've done.
05:50Because when I started out in 2022, I do not have any experience managing a state legislative office.
05:59There was no state legislative assemblyman from Muda, so we sort of just start everything from scratch.
06:05But Rashifa has had four years of experience managing state legislative office.
06:10And so I'm sure if she's given the mandate, she'll do an even more excellent job.
06:15She knows the place, she knows the work, and she'll do amazing.
06:18And it will be even better if she wins, and I'll be able to, inshallah, get the parliamentary seat.
06:25It would be, hopefully, a better combo for the people we want to serve.
06:30And hopefully increase women representation in parliament.
06:34So we talk a lot about how to get more women in politics, more young people in politics.
06:39Are you seeing this as the pipeline?
06:41So you train young people in the office, and then they see how operationally it happens.
06:47Has that been a proven track, a method for Muda?
06:51Definitely. I think not just for myself, even Saeed Sadiq, he's been training his own staff, for example.
06:58And that's why for this particular election, we have Amir Jack, who is Saeed Sadiq's chief of staff, contesting in
07:05Maharani.
07:05So I think that is a natural pipeline that we want to have, right?
07:09Not the kind of leadership where you just continue on and on and on and never resign.
07:14Meanwhile, you know you've already had a lot of younger, newer generations who can serve after you and who can
07:22serve even better.
07:22And when we're talking about women representation, women representation in the Johor State Legislative Assembly, although it is higher than
07:30the national average, we have about 26%, if I'm not mistaken, of women assemblywomen in Johor.
07:37But it is still below the target of 30%.
07:39And that is the reason why, you know, Muda is very serious about ensuring we'll be able to send in
07:46more women in the State Legislative Assembly.
07:48And so we've done this in 2023 as well, and we're doing this again in the State Legislative Assembly, sorry,
07:55the State PRN this year, where we are sending more than 50% women candidates.
07:59In 2023, we sent 53% women candidates, and for this particular election, we are sending 50% women candidates.
08:07And that shows how serious we are in furthering the representation of women in the Assembly.
08:14And not just, you know, these are not just women that we see as tokens, right?
08:18These are women who we know will be able to do the job, who we know they understand the issues,
08:23not just the local issues, they understand the issues that are plaguing Johor, that are plaguing Malaysia.
08:28And we are putting our best bets here.
08:30I think the whole of Muda will agree that when we put people like Rashifa Al-Juniet and when we
08:36put people like Aini Hazika as our candidates, you know, these two are our national leaders.
08:43And these are our best offer for Johor to complement, you know, Amejik and Premalini.
08:49Okay, so since you brought up the State Legislative Assembly, I want to talk to you about a recent development
08:54that has happened.
08:55So there was a law that was passed a few months ago that allows now for the State Assembly to
09:01add up to five appointed, that means non-elected, Assembly persons.
09:07Amira, talk to me about what this development means.
09:09Is this, how do we think about this development?
09:13I mean, I think the law itself is a total mockery of democracy.
09:19You want to talk about democracy, you want to talk about giving voices to the people, but then you give
09:26this particular power to the government, especially to the Chief Minister,
09:32to appoint five people who were not elected by the people into the State Legislative Assembly.
09:37And these five people have the same privileges and powers as the elected assemblymen, right?
09:41They can vote, meaning that they can pass or oppose a law.
09:46They can get the same salary.
09:48They can get the same pension.
09:51And, you know, when I wanted to, I was pushing to have a slot to debate against this Adun Lantikan,
09:58this elected or this appointed assemblymen.
10:02And we weren't given the option to debate.
10:04The only room for debate was only one opposition and one government.
10:09And that was only five minutes each.
10:11So it's like, what is the function of the State Legislative Assembly if you refuse to allow debate on such
10:18important matters as this?
10:20In the law itself, in the bill itself, it says that the five assemblymen will have the same power and
10:26privileges.
10:26We want to question that power, right?
10:28And I think we have the right to question that power.
10:30Well, will they also get constituency funds when they don't have constituency?
10:35What voices will they represent?
10:37Chief Minister said, oh, this is necessary to bring in more expertise inside the State Legislative Assembly.
10:44So tell us, what kind of expertise you want to bring?
10:46Do you want to put a quota for, I don't know, like quota for climate change or quota for disabled
10:51communities?
10:52Technocritic even, yeah.
10:53That is the first question.
10:54So you don't have that in the bill.
10:56If you want to bring people who are experts, then why don't you just put experts as your candidates in
11:01election?
11:02Does the bill spell out how these assemblymen will be appointed?
11:06There's no such thing as their, you know, what kind of, what will be their CV or what are their
11:12expertise?
11:13Who will be appointing them?
11:13The government under the Chief Minister.
11:15So will the State Legislature be able to vote for who gets served?
11:20No. The Chief Minister has the power to appoint these five.
11:22Full discretion on the Chief Minister.
11:24And so these are just like five automatic votes for the government.
11:28So regardless, however, the government was formed after this, right now they may have 40 seats.
11:33Let's say after this, because we have 56 seats, right?
11:37Let's say after this, maybe they get to win, like, let's say about 33 or 34.
11:43And so it makes a certain bill very difficult to pass, for example.
11:47To bolster a position.
11:48Yeah.
11:48And these five votes matter a lot.
11:51And when these five votes matter a lot, this is reducing the voices of the people.
11:55Because we know now that you have five automatic votes from the government.
11:59That's why for Muda, one of the things that we put in our manifesto, or what we call Contract Muda
12:05Johor, is to abolish this Adunantikan.
12:07It doesn't matter that this is just recently passed.
12:10This is an abysmal law that isn't supposed to be a law at all.
12:14And I was comparing it, for example, in one of the PC anime.
12:18Because I was only able to do a PC because I wasn't given a room to debate.
12:23I mean, if you're talking about, let's say, empowering more women, or empowering more marginalised communities, or empowering more disabled
12:30communities, for example, right?
12:32To ensure that their voices are heard in the state, we understand.
12:35But you can use a system like the Penang, that Pulau Penang is using, for example, the Tuas system.
12:40The top-up system.
12:41Yeah, the top-up system, right?
12:42So, you know, for example, if you only have 22% women representative, you can top-up to make sure
12:48that you have 30% women representative.
12:51That kind of law, we can understand, right?
12:53But this kind of law, we don't know.
12:55So, when the Chief Minister says, oh, we want to appoint more experts, the question is, what they say is
13:02not experts.
13:03We want to appoint more people who have knowledge in the State Resistive Assembly.
13:08Why are you not nominating people with knowledge as your Adunant in the first place, right?
13:12Are you saying that currently, the Adunant from Barisan National doesn't have knowledge, so we have to appoint people with
13:17knowledge?
13:18That's number one.
13:18Number two, what is the function of the Jautang Kuasa?
13:21All these committees are supposed to bring in experts' voices, experts' knowledge, and then whatever that is decided within the
13:28committee is presented in the State Legislative Assembly.
13:32So, strengthen the committee.
13:34Empower the committee.
13:35So, the committee has more voice in the State Legislative Assembly.
13:38I think these are all things you can do without demeaning democracy and making a mockery of democracy.
13:44Is there a way for Johorians or Johor voters to keep watch or be vigilant?
13:53How do we be vigilant as to avoid some of the, I guess, abuses of power, should there be any?
14:02Yeah.
14:03So, unfortunately, one of the things that I was pushing for and Muda is pushing for right now is to
14:08make sure that we have a live coverage of the State Legislative Assembly,
14:12which we don't have right now.
14:14The parliament has a live coverage.
14:16It's not that hard, right?
14:17Yeah.
14:18Some of the states have a live coverage.
14:19You can just do your own YouTube live stream.
14:24And then people can see and can hold their adons accountable.
14:29But as of right now, we don't have that live coverage.
14:32Sure, Johorians can read the Hansard.
14:34So, the Hansard is published in the State Legislative Assembly website.
14:39But, I mean, let's be frank.
14:41How many people would want to read the Hansard?
14:43People would perhaps watch the live coverage, but people may not have the interest to read the Hansard.
14:48That's number one.
14:48Number two, there has to be more transparency inside the Jalutang Kuasa.
14:54So, I'm part of the Climate Change Committee that was established in 2023.
14:57So, I pushed for the Climate Change Committee as soon as I was elected in 2022.
15:02And we managed to pass it unanimously in 2023.
15:06A lot of important matters regarding climate change, regarding disaster management, was discussed within the committee.
15:13But there was nowhere at all where the people can access the committee papers, for example.
15:19And these are among the things that we were pushing for in the State Legislative Assembly so that the people
15:24can hold their adons accountable.
15:26I think the question now is, when it comes to state election, people are not sure what have their adons
15:34done for them.
15:35And so, that is the reason why nowadays, people are like, adons have become more of like, elected representatives have
15:43become more like Santa Claus.
15:45In order for you to feel that your adons have done work, they have to be given like, you know,
15:51handouts, a lot of bantuan.
15:53Fix the longkang.
15:54Yeah, fix the longkang, which is the kerja of alimajlis.
15:57I understand that some temporary measures or short-term solutions have to be given, especially when you deal with people
16:06who are really from underprivileged communities, right?
16:09Communities.
16:10But for you to measure the work of an adon, it's not just whether or not they are able to
16:15attend majlis kahwin and kenduli orang meninggal.
16:19It's not just whether or not they are able to give thousands of baku makanan.
16:24You assess the work of an adon based on the issues and also the laws that they propose in the
16:32State Legislative Assembly.
16:33And all these are not being made easily accessible to the people.
16:37Okay, let's come back to the Jawa State Elections.
16:41And I want to look at how is it different this time around compared to when you ran in the
16:48last state elections.
16:49I mean, let's talk political dynamics aside, because there's lots of change in the political landscape.
16:56But just in terms of the voters, the landscape, the awareness about muda now, you have a track record.
17:03You were saying that you had to set it up in the beginning.
17:05But you have a track record now.
17:07Talk to me about the differences that you see this time around.
17:12First and foremost, I think one of the biggest differences is the number of young people in this particular election.
17:18A lot of political analysts have been saying that the ones who will determine this election would be the people
17:25under 35 years old.
17:27Because they make up about 37% of the total voters of Johor right now.
17:32And so the young voters become the kingmakers in this particular election.
17:38And that's the reason why you can see a lot more political parties are pushing out the young agenda, right?
17:44Either they are pushing out young candidates, or you can see the older candidates are also going with the Gen
17:49Z trends.
17:50Because everyone is trying to capture the hearts of the young voters, right?
17:54And so that is one of the common themes that I realised in this particular election that may be absent
18:00in the previous election.
18:01In the previous election, I was the youngest candidate.
18:03I was 27 years old.
18:05I was the youngest candidate.
18:06I'm very happy to see that in this particular election, we have people younger than me.
18:10Rashifah is 26.
18:12There's someone who is 24 years old.
18:14That means more and more party have the awareness that it's time for the young to step up in the
18:19political arena.
18:21That being said, there are still a lot more people who have been in this arena for decades and decades
18:28who have stepped out and then stepped in again, stepped out using a different baju and then stepped in again
18:36using a different baju.
18:37So there is all that particular political culture as well, still persistent in Malaysian politics.
18:44But I can see that there is a lot more seriousness because of the demand of the young people.
18:49So I think that is very consistent.
18:51Number two, there is also a lot more awareness about the importance of putting in more women.
18:57And so you can see a lot of the political parties are quoting how many women they are putting forward,
19:03right?
19:03Which is great.
19:04I think that's a win for all women.
19:07Although I'm proud to say that we're the only party that has 50% women candidates and they're not just
19:13tokens.
19:13These are amazing women.
19:15But one of the things that I am very, very concerned about, and this is not just about this election,
19:21this is about our system as a whole.
19:23When you have the kind of system where the election date is not set or it's not fixed.
19:30For example, this Joe's state election was dissolved.
19:32Joe's assembly was dissolved out of nowhere.
19:35We received a notice to say that there is a sitting on 26th June, if I'm not mistaken.
19:41And then suddenly the assembly was dissolved, even before the sitting was done, right?
19:46So it caught everyone by surprise.
19:48Now the issue is that it's not just an issue for political parties.
19:52I think for political parties, we know.
19:54We know that when there is election, you go for it.
19:56Whether you're ready or not, you go for it, right?
19:59But the issue is for the people who need to come back and vote.
20:02Yeah, it affects turnout, right?
20:04Yeah, it affects turnout, especially for the younger people, for the mahasiswa.
20:08Those are in universities.
20:10This is not, you know, this particular election is not in the middle of their big break, for example.
20:17Not a semester break.
20:18Yeah, not a semester break.
20:19For many of them, this is their finals week.
20:21This is their week where they are, you know, going for exams, they are studying.
20:26And I've met so many parents here who've been asking me, oh, you know, maybe we and our kids want
20:33to come back and vote.
20:34But, you know, come back.
20:35If you come back, go back and forth, it's already RM70.
20:39That's a huge cost to many people.
20:41RM70 is their four to five days worth of food for their children, right?
20:45And that's not something simple to many of these people.
20:49So, for politicians, maybe RM70, you think that's like your one single meal.
20:54But it's a lot for many people.
20:55So, when you don't have a system that is fixed election, this is when election date is being used as
21:03a weapon to sort of influence the voter turnout.
21:07Right.
21:07So, it will benefit specific party.
21:10Okay.
21:10And that is the issue right now.
21:12So, I just want to bring in, in the time that we have, the political landscape of this Johor elections.
21:18Muda, the last elections, was a Pakatan Harapan ally, no longer working, in fact, going head-to-head with PKR
21:26in some seats.
21:27And we also have the debut of Bersama.
21:31So, Muda's working with PSM.
21:33Yes.
21:33For a progressive bloc.
21:35Yes.
21:35Talk to me about the need for a progressive bloc and how do you go head-to-head with a
21:40former ally?
21:40And what do you make of this new entrant, Bersama, in the polls?
21:45When we talk about progressive bloc, it's about furthering the progressive policies.
21:51What do we think of when we talk about progressive policies?
21:54We think of climate change policies that are more progressive in nature.
21:57I was just reading Pakatan Harapan manifesto and nowhere in that manifesto was climate change mentioned, right?
22:05We know that Johor is struggling with the boom of data centres, but also struggling with water supply and water
22:11shortage.
22:12We don't see that in the Barisan National Manifesto.
22:15So, these kind of policies are being pushed by the progressive bloc.
22:18We're talking about, when we talk about employment, we're not just talking anymore about creating employment.
22:24We understand that Johor brings billions of ringgit, but how many of those employments that you are creating are actually
22:31meaningful employments
22:33that can match the kind of knowledge that our Johorians have and also can match the cost of living that
22:39we have right now.
22:40So, this progressive bloc is championing issues that were not talked about by these other political parties, right?
22:45And this progressive bloc is a multi-racial bloc that I think is very important because in today's political era,
22:54especially with the younger generations, race and identity is no longer the main point of contention, right?
23:01The main point that people want to talk about is which political party can ensure that the future is more
23:06livable,
23:07that the future is more dignified for the younger generations.
23:09I think that is what the progressive bloc is very important.
23:13Obviously, you know, this is something that people, a lot of people were asking online,
23:18and I saw this online where, oh, Muda is betraying Pakatan Harapan.
23:22I think this is something that I really wanted to address.
23:24Back in 2023, we've been pushing Pakatan Harapan to make a strong statement about Zaid Hamidi.
23:31When Zaid Hamidi was appointed as Deputy Prime Minister, okay, fine, we understand that some compromises have to be made
23:38for you to ensure stability, but we made our red lines.
23:41Our red line is that if Zaid Hamidi's case was being tampered with, we will pull out our support.
23:47And we were right.
23:48In 2023, Zaid Hamidi's case was given a DNAA, dismissal, not amounting to acquittal,
23:56later on becoming NFA, no further action, right?
23:59So when they are talking about, oh, Muda betraying Pakatan Harapan,
24:02our response is that we're not betraying Pakatan Harapan.
24:05Pakatan Harapan is betraying their own promises.
24:08Pakatan Harapan is betraying the people that voted for them.
24:11And Muda just has been very consistent in the things that we've been championing.
24:15We reject corruption.
24:16We reject abuse of power.
24:18We've been fighting Azam Baki since day one.
24:20We're not the party who is consistently renewing Azam Baki's contract.
24:27We're not the party who then appoints Azam Baki as the advisor to the NFCC, right?
24:33And we're not the party who says that tangkap Azam Baki is just a political soundbite.
24:37We've been very consistent about these particular issues.
24:40When we talk about the new entries of other political parties, I think when you talk about
24:45democracy, anyone has the democratic power and democratic rights to associate, freedom of association, right?
24:54So it's everyone's power to have their own political parties.
24:57It's everyone's power how they want to strategize for elections.
25:01Obviously, if you ask me, when we talk about progressive, if you think that you have the
25:06similar progressive values, you move together.
25:09But if they don't want to do it, then that's up to them.
25:13But...
25:14Have they said they might want to do it?
25:15Do they not see themselves as maybe aligned with a progressive bloc?
25:20I mean, that question is something that they have to answer because Muda and PSM have been
25:25very consistent in the things that we are fighting for.
25:27We are only contesting five seats.
25:30I think Bersama is contesting 15 seats.
25:34If you work together, it doesn't really mean a lot.
25:38But if you look at Johor as just your experimental stage, then that's an issue.
25:44Because no election should be a platform for you to experiment.
25:48The livelihoods of Johorians is not an experiment.
25:51Who's going to be appointed and elected as...
25:53Sorry, who's going to be elected as the state legislative assembly is not an experiment.
25:57How many votes can you secure is not an experiment, right?
26:01So this election, it may not matter a lot to people who live outside of Johor.
26:06It may not matter a lot to party leaders who are not Johorians.
26:10But it matters a lot to a lot of Johorians.
26:12So whatever party you are, do not treat this as your experimental ground.
26:17Well, we have to end on that note, Amira.
26:19But thank you so much for speaking with me.
26:20I appreciate your time.
26:21Thank you so much.
26:22I'm Melissa Idris.
26:23I'm signing off for the evening.
26:24But stay tuned to Ezra Awani for all your coverage on the Johor elections.
26:29Good evening.
26:42I'm Melissa Idris.
26:43I'm Melissa Idris.
26:45I'm Melissa Idris.
26:49I'm Melissa Idris.
26:52I'm Melissa Idris.
26:52I'm Melissa Idris.
26:53I'm Melissa Idris.
26:54You
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