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In an exclusive interview with India Today, author and columnist Chetan Bhagat addressed the intense public scrutiny surrounding his controversial column on the Pune murder mystery involving Siya Goyal.
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00:00A cliffhanger of a murder mystery has really captured the imagination of the country.
00:06Now I have to be honest, on 5 Live we did not pick up the issue.
00:09I thought it's a very personal matter, why there are other headlines that really deserve national attention.
00:16So we did not cover the story on 5 Live at least.
00:20But then this morning I woke up to an article written by Chetan Bhagat.
00:23Chetan Bhagat has now set up a cat amongst the pigeons.
00:28Because he's saying that while the entire country seems to be united in thinking how can you kill someone?
00:35How can you throw somebody off the cliff really in this manner if you don't want to marry them?
00:42There are other ways.
00:43He's actually debating from the other side.
00:45He's saying it's not Sia's fault alone.
00:49He's got a perspective on parents, on society and importantly on business class families.
00:56So let me welcome Chetan Bhagat on the program today.
00:58Hi there Chetan.
00:59Hi, hi.
01:01How are you?
01:02I am good and slightly confused at this point.
01:05Because when I read your piece, I have to admit a part of me agreed with what you were saying.
01:12But then immediately after that I went into seeing the interview of the parents.
01:16Sia's parents is what I'm speaking about.
01:20And they have said, they have come out and said very plainly, very simply that if it is their daughter's
01:26fault, she should be thrown off the same cliff as well.
01:29So help us understand how did you come to this conclusion?
01:35Your piece, for those of you who haven't read, who probably live under a rock at this point and haven't
01:42seen his Twitter timeline just yet.
01:44He says, why Sia couldn't say no to marriage and that he was under pressure.
01:49A lot of girls, those of business families have agreed with what Chetan has said.
01:54So let me give you the first word then to try and explain why you stand where you stand.
02:01Okay.
02:02First of all, let me make it very clear.
02:05If Sia is a criminal, the law will punish her and only the law can punish her.
02:10We can't punish her.
02:11My writing will not change anything.
02:13Your media trial will not change anything.
02:15And that's the way, luckily, the law works in this country.
02:18We have a constitution.
02:18Not sure about media trial, but we'll debate that some other day.
02:21I mean, that's not, I mean, so there is nothing.
02:24And I'm not justifying her alleged crime.
02:28It's still alleged just to be responsible.
02:33But they can be explained.
02:37There's a difference between justification and explanation.
02:39And sometimes a writer's job is to explain things.
02:43And there are some issues, you know, we cannot discuss in public because it's not that there's no opportunity to
02:52do it.
02:53But it's been burning in my heart for a long time that how regressive India's business families are.
03:00And how it affects their children.
03:02And also, I would say the entire country.
03:04And we can talk about that.
03:05But this case gave a chance to discuss that.
03:09Right?
03:09Otherwise, because all the attention is on this case.
03:12And it's an highly unusual case.
03:14Two weeks have happened.
03:15The whole country's attention is still on this case.
03:17Even though this is not like the Arushi case where we were like, who did it?
03:21You can still understand a whodunit can last a long time.
03:24Here, there's only the same characters.
03:26But it has shaken India to the core.
03:29Because such a thing can only happen in India.
03:32It's exception here also.
03:33But let us say, for example, there was a husband and a wife killed the husband.
03:37And that's also very rare.
03:38But you can still maybe see that, okay, he was abusive.
03:42And the in-laws were abusive.
03:43Or they were not giving the divorce.
03:45They were just, she had no, like she was just cut to a corner.
03:49Here, it seems a fiancé.
03:51The easiest thing for her actually was to go to family court with her boyfriend.
03:55Get married.
03:56Take a certificate.
03:57Make a PDF.
03:58Send it to the parents.
04:00Both sides say, sorry.
04:01This daughter was taken.
04:03End of story.
04:04But she didn't do that.
04:06In fact, in what the police has said to the media is that she told the police that she
04:11didn't cancel the wedding because it would have brought shame to the family.
04:15And that was the key point which started the column for me when she made that statement.
04:21And that is something that is there in business families.
04:23And I bring out two things which I feel were not being brought out as much.
04:27That's why it's trended.
04:28That's why it's kind of caught fire like it has.
04:30Because one is India's, these business families which run these, which I call the SMEs, the
04:3610 crore turnover, 50 crore turnover, not the mega industrial houses.
04:41Say 10 to 500 crore.
04:43This bracket people, they tend to be highly regressive.
04:46They run these businesses which, and there's a reason, and it does seem like wild argument,
04:53but just stay with me here.
04:55They run these businesses which their daddy used to run, grandfather used to run.
04:59They tend to be stable businesses.
05:00They are making steel pipes and ball bearings, all essential things in the economy, all hard
05:06work involved, tiles, things like that.
05:08But not exactly the cutting edge of technology, no R&D, nothing.
05:12Just a business that gives a certain cash flow, doesn't scale, doesn't get bigger and
05:15bigger.
05:16It just stabilizes at a level.
05:17And what we call the Lala company.
05:19And then the father leaves and the son comes and things like that keep happening.
05:24So they don't have any excitement as such in the business like global entrepreneurs do.
05:30Like they are not doing robotics like China is doing and they're not building the next
05:35AI app.
05:36All of India's unicorns, the tech unicorns.
05:38What you're saying could be a little simplistic at this point.
05:41A lot of families could say that.
05:43But I just want to quote you.
05:44But I just want to, let me just finish one minute.
05:46So what happens is, what is their flex in life?
05:49Because they're rich.
05:50They want to feel rich.
05:52The ultimate flex is doing lavish weddings.
05:56So you get to show that I'm rich and I'm something because you are like, you know, that's
06:00how you show your money.
06:02And second, you have compliant kids.
06:04Look at my daughter, how much she wants to say.
06:07Married the boy I chose.
06:08Married when I told her to marry.
06:10Who, which community, which religion, everything.
06:12When you do this, other businessmen around you or women, they just say, wow, what have
06:16what have happened?
06:17And for a few days, they feel great.
06:19Udaipur palace happens and a compliant nubile daughter agrees to them.
06:24So that is, it's everything to them because they don't have any real entrepreneurship going
06:29on in the business.
06:30Secondly, why do the kids not object?
06:32That's also something which needs to be discussed.
06:34Why does the so-called empowered Gen Z does not object in this case?
06:39The reason is these kids are never brought up to be capable.
06:43They're never brought up to educate.
06:46And I'm not, I am simply fine.
06:48Yes.
06:48Maybe there are families which are different.
06:49Yes.
06:50Okay.
06:51But a lot of, a lot of the times the kids does know the only thing they can do is
06:56step
06:56into daddy's business.
06:57They don't have a LinkedIn profile.
06:59They don't have good college education.
07:00They can't apply for jobs.
07:01So they are completely dependent on daddy to fund their life.
07:06And it's a nice life.
07:07It's a comfortable life.
07:08So when someone funds you, when some, you depend on someone, they will control you.
07:14And that is the dynamic that happens.
07:16It's regressive.
07:18It's not good.
07:19It's keeping India backward because these businesses are, they think it's spending money
07:23on these weddings is the way to show that you're a great business family.
07:27And these kids are not standing up.
07:29And I felt it needs to be discussed.
07:31And it has resonated with a lot of people.
07:33You yourself were confused because you did initially like the column, but then
07:38Yes, I, like I said, you saw X and when you see X, then, you know, no, it's the opposite.
07:43Actually, it's the opposite.
07:44What I felt was the opposite of what X was discussing, which is often the case in life
07:48as well.
07:49But as a daughter of a business class family, let me say, this is oversimplification.
07:54It doesn't always take place.
07:55And what you're saying about lavish weddings as SME families, India's best known families
08:00have thrown the most talked about weddings in the universe.
08:04And, you know, so that's not an exception either.
08:07But let me quote you over here.
08:08Let me quote you.
08:08Let me quote you.
08:09No, no, you have to wait now, Chetan.
08:11I'm just coming to your comment.
08:13I have to quote you for a second because we're digressing a little bit.
08:16Okay.
08:16We'll come back to you.
08:17Yeah.
08:17You've got, you've called these children trophy cattle.
08:21And you explain.
08:22No, I don't call them trophy cattle.
08:23There is no word.
08:24Okay.
08:24You said when will business families realize that their children are not trophy cattle.
08:30Right.
08:30You've said when they are not trophy cattle.
08:32Right.
08:32And then there is a line which really caught on to a nerve wherein you're describing the
08:37parents.
08:38And the context here is from biscuits to brides, Indian parents want to decide everything for
08:43you, how you will live, what you'll eat or drink, how you'll pray, what you'll wear,
08:48who you'll date, brackets, nobody, who you'll marry, the person we choose with three factor
08:54authentication of caste, community, religion.
08:56When will you copulate?
08:58When will you produce an offspring must a beat and emotional, you know, manipulation
09:04begins, silent treatments and loud tears, even suicide threats.
09:08All of this you've spoken and it might be true for a lot of cases.
09:12This happens or it happens or it happens or it happens or it happens or it happens or it happens.
09:14Hey, I'll ask a question, right?
09:16Yeah.
09:17I mean, you're like, okay.
09:19Okay.
09:19Okay.
09:20Okay.
09:20So that's what I'm saying.
09:21A lot of what you've said is actually right.
09:23But there are certain pieces that you have assumed which are completely false.
09:29For example, you've assumed that the parents knew about the relationship between Chetan
09:34and Sia.
09:34The parents on record have gone ahead to say that they had no idea.
09:38In fact, before I go to you for the next question, I want to play out a little glimpse
09:42of that interview that we got with Sia's parents.
09:44And when you listen to them, Chetan, you understand that there are such in so-called Gen Z slang,
09:50such sims.
09:52There are such simple people who really just want to say that, listen, if it's my daughter's
09:57fault, hang her.
09:58Just listen into this entire little bit of a glimpse and we'll come back.
10:01Let's play that, please.
10:04Let's play that, let's play that, let's play that, let's play that.
10:36Let's play that, let's play that, let's play that.
10:49Now I can't say anything more than that.
11:19The court decides.
11:20I don't decide.
11:20You don't decide.
11:21The parents also don't decide.
11:22They can say whatever.
11:23And no, nobody gets pushed over the mountain.
11:25There is an incarceration or there is like a hanging in our country.
11:29So, I mean, interesting idea, but that's not how it works here.
11:32So, it doesn't absolve anything.
11:36Why didn't she tell them?
11:39Why do parents not have a responsibility to create an environment?
11:43When she was 19 when they fixed the wedding.
11:45Okay, an adult.
11:47But like she was barely like just turned adult and you're fixing her wedding at 19.
11:52And you don't know what she's up to.
11:54She's living a double life.
11:56There are videos of her in clubs and all and the mom says, no, I didn't know.
12:00She never drank.
12:01So, you are either clueless.
12:03So, are you giving me the clueless defense?
12:06And if she was that, if they were so simple, then she would have told them,
12:10I don't want to do it.
12:10No, I'm giving you the progressive defense.
12:13Because look at the timeline over here.
12:15Now, there is apparently a thing that the brother, Sia's brother was to be married to Chetan's sister.
12:21And there was a full sort of family engagement to happen that was supposed to take place.
12:26But look at them.
12:26You know, I don't want to.
12:27They went to Bali.
12:28I'm talking about the progressiveness of the parents.
12:31They went to Bali.
12:33They were talking about going to Mahabaleshwar.
12:36They were talking about the Lohagar trek, etc.
12:40It's not like the parents were keeping the kid trapped.
12:42She had full agency to decide.
12:45The mother in the same interview said, I spent 50,000 rupees for her shopping for the pre-marriage photo
12:52shoot to Bali.
12:53The parents were progressive enough for her to go out and travel.
12:58I don't know what is so progressive about this.
13:00No, travel in a different country with your fiancé you're not married to.
13:03That's progressive.
13:06I mean, you know, he's a fiancé.
13:08I mean, that's different.
13:09Shadi fixed.
13:11See, listen.
13:12I don't want to comment on the individual case.
13:15That is not my job as a columnist.
13:16I'm not doing investigative journalism here.
13:18Sure.
13:18And I've written murder mysteries.
13:20That's my only claim to.
13:21So I'm very curious as a person.
13:23But and I'm telling you, this is going to be a hard one to prove in court based on our
13:27legal system.
13:28That's a separate thing.
13:30But how is all this relevant?
13:32Is it not true?
13:33You said yourself.
13:34You said in my case, my parents didn't say anything.
13:37It is not always true.
13:38It is not the same as it never happens.
13:41Or it doesn't happen a lot.
13:43It's not always true.
13:44Barely means, yeah, there are exceptions.
13:46But is it not true that there are family pressures in India on who you will marry and what career
13:53you will have?
13:55Is it not a big number?
13:57Or if you talk pan-India, I'm not talking South Delhi, South Bombay.
14:01I'm not talking this crowd.
14:03I'm talking of all the Bhopals and Guhartis and Bikaners and our country in these small business families.
14:09You think they are all progressive and they're like,
14:12Yeah, introduce me to your boyfriend.
14:14Call him home for Diwali.
14:16You think that's what happens?
14:18But you think she couldn't have said no?
14:22There are a thousand ways.
14:24I think she should have.
14:24There are a million ways.
14:25I think she should have.
14:26She's stupid or evil or both.
14:28I don't know.
14:29Right?
14:30That's why this is an exceptional case.
14:32But that doesn't make the pressure okay.
14:35That doesn't make it okay for parents to try and control their lives.
14:38So what happened?
14:39If she could do this, she could do it.
14:41So this means that parents are still doing it in India.
14:44This can also be an argument.
14:46Isn't it time we change something else also?
14:49Punish her.
14:50She will get punished if she's proven guilty.
14:52There is nobody who can defend her now.
14:54Nobody.
14:55Right?
14:56There is nothing.
14:57There is no.
14:58The only defense they'll make is there is no evidence or something like that.
15:01Some legal loophole they'll try to find.
15:03But the bigger issue is that India is really regressive still.
15:07I've made a whole career on it.
15:09All my books have the same plot.
15:10Parents are opposing the marriage.
15:13I mean and it works.
15:15Because this is the reality of her country and it's shocking.
15:17You think Mark Zuckerberg tries to control his kids and who they're marrying?
15:22Or Elon Musk does that?
15:24I mean talking of businessmen, right?
15:26They're also businessmen.
15:27You're smiling because it sounds bizarre.
15:29No, I'm smiling because they have all the big tech owners have gone on record to say that none of
15:34their kids are on social media.
15:35None of the kids even own.
15:36On a smartphone.
15:38So it's the opposite of what they bring into our lives.
15:41They're talking of minor kids.
15:42They're talking of minor kids.
15:43No, no.
15:44No, no.
15:44They're talking of, let's be clear.
15:46They're talking of minor kids.
15:47They're not talking about adults.
15:49They don't control adults.
15:50You should control a three-year-old kid.
15:52Yes.
15:52You should keep your kid off social media.
15:54It's your responsibility as a parent to not give them a phone or an iPad when they're eight.
15:59Which a lot of parents give.
16:00If you go to Indian restaurants today, that's a separate discussion and a separate column maybe.
16:04So yes, that should happen.
16:06But the difference is here, you're growing too.
16:08You're growing too.
16:08You're growing too.
16:09You're growing too.
16:42You're growing too.
16:45Your article today is.
16:47Why have you put the locust back on the parents?
16:49The girl should have stood up.
16:50No.
16:51The girl, she was taking money from the very rich fiancee and giving it to the other.
16:58How can, till when will we continue to blame the previous generation who did what they did?
17:02That's the best they know, yeah.
17:04Tomorrow our kids are going to ask us the same questions.
17:06Maybe that's not the—
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