- 3 hours ago
The big focus of this episode of India First is on the Ram Mandir donation scam. The probe into the embezzlement of devotees' donations at the Ram Mandir has taken a major turn.
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00:00From the Pune murder investigations, the latest information that's just coming in,
00:05police probing the Ketan Agrawal murder have found that Ketan Agrawal, the victim,
00:11he was suspicious.
00:14He initially did suspect that something wasn't adding up about his fiancée and her friends.
00:22He in fact raised these questions with his family and it was a very rich family.
00:28He asked them to carry out a personal check, carry out a check on the fiancée and the family.
00:36However, such was his faith in the relationship that despite an attempt being made on his life once,
00:44he went back to Lohagar.
00:46And that's the big question.
00:47Why?
00:48If he initially suspected his fiancée that she was seeing someone else or had another friend
00:54that he wasn't very comfortable about,
00:55he wanted a detailed background check to be done before fixing the marriage,
01:00why did he go back?
01:02Now, Ketan, apparently, according to police investigations,
01:06he was allegedly pushed to his death from that cliff at Lohagar Fort on the 18th of June.
01:13Police suspect this was a conspiracy by his fiancée, Sia Goyal,
01:17and her friend, Chetan Chowdhury.
01:21Police claim he is the partner in crime and more than just a partner in crime.
01:25A police official now says that Ketan's father, Vishal Agrawal,
01:30has mentioned to the police that the son was increasingly voicing concerns about Sia's reported proximity.
01:40alleged closeness to co-accused in this case, Chetan Chowdhury,
01:45saying she often mentioned his name in their conversations
01:49and he wanted to know more about Chetan Chowdhury
01:52and why Sia repeatedly mentioned his name.
01:54Now, police say Goyal had earlier sabotaged a pre-wedding plan.
02:00And that was the information that they've been able to gather
02:03a pre-wedding trip to Bali, Indonesia.
02:06This was supposed to be a photo shoot.
02:08The police said on the 14th of June,
02:10Sia and Ketan had gone to the same spot at the Lohagar Fort
02:13from where he was subsequently, four days later, pushed to his death.
02:18But even on that day, she had apparently tried to push him off the cliff
02:22but he managed to hold on to some branches of a tree
02:25and he asked her, why did you push me?
02:28She said it was a false alarm, something about a snake that appeared
02:32and she panicked and she tried to save him from a snake.
02:36Ketan said, according to the police,
02:39he apparently told his family that there was something in the back of his head
02:44which he felt wasn't adding up.
02:46But he didn't say it in as many words.
02:48His family had reassured him that there was probably nothing to worry about
02:54because their relatives and friends had reassured them
02:58that the girl came from a very good family and would be a very good person.
03:02I quickly want to cut across to my colleague, Divesh Singh,
03:05who has been tracking the story very closely.
03:07Divesh, what was his suspicion?
03:09Why did the victim want a detailed background check on his fiance and her friend?
03:20Well, Gaurav, before Ketan Agarwal was murdered,
03:24he was terminated by Sia Goyal and her friend Chetan Chaudhary.
03:29There were several red flags that appeared in front of Ketan Agarwal.
03:35First instance was when they were going to Bali
03:38and just before going to Bali,
03:40the passport of Ketan Agarwal suddenly went missing.
03:45After which, they had to cancel the Bali trip.
03:49Remember, relatives and close relatives had gathered at the airport
03:53but because Ketan Agarwal's passport had gone missing,
03:57they had to cancel the trip.
03:58After that, on 14th of June, Sia Goyal pushed Ketan Agarwal.
04:05Then she made an excuse that she was trying to save him from a snake.
04:08That also raised suspicion in minds of Ketan Agarwal.
04:12Ketan Agarwal, repeatedly after the cancellation of Bali trip,
04:16had asked his family whether they had conducted a proper background check on Sia Goyal
04:21because whenever he called her, her phone was busy.
04:24During conversations, she would make references of Chaudhary
04:28while talking to Ketan Agarwal repeatedly.
04:32Also, after the 14th June incident,
04:36when Sia Goyal had pushed Ketan Agarwal
04:39and made an excuse that she'd seen a snake.
04:42That day also, after coming back from Lohagar,
04:45Ketan Agarwal had spoken to his father
04:47and again asked him that had the family done a proper background check
04:53because he felt suspicious of Sia Goyal's intentions
04:57or Sia Goyal's behaviour.
05:00After that, 18th of June, again,
05:02Ketan Agarwal went to Lohagar for Lohagar.
05:04Why did he go back if he suspected her?
05:06If there were multiple red flags,
05:08if Divesh, if there were multiple red flags
05:10and you've listed them out,
05:12why did he go back to the fort with her then?
05:18Well, Governor, the parents assured Ketan Agarwal
05:21that they had done a background check.
05:24They knew Sia Goyal's family.
05:25In fact, they were related to them
05:27and the match had been brought to them
05:29by a very close relative
05:31who knew Sia Goyal's family closely.
05:35And that is what was assured to Ketan Agarwal
05:38by his parents,
05:40by his father, Vishal Agarwal.
05:41And that is what Vishal Agarwal
05:43has told the police as well.
05:46That Ketan Agarwal raised doubts.
05:48Ketan Agarwal had suspicion
05:50on Sia Goyal's behaviour,
05:52on her proximity.
05:53Her phone was constantly busy
05:55and now the CDR
05:56which has been investigated,
05:58the call detailed records
05:59which have been investigated
06:01by the Lonavala police,
06:02by the Pune police,
06:03brings to light
06:04that hundreds and hundreds of hours
06:07of conversation she had had
06:09with Chetan Chaudhary.
06:10She was constantly in touch
06:11with Chetan Chaudhary.
06:12In fact, she had met
06:14Chetan Chaudhary a day
06:15prior to 18th of June
06:17on 17th of June
06:18at a cafe in Pune
06:20which is said to be the place
06:22where they again planned
06:24how Ketan Agarwal
06:26will be executed
06:27or will be terminated.
06:29Shocking details.
06:30Keep tracking that story.
06:31I will come back to you
06:32for more.
06:33The Vish for the moment,
06:34many thanks
06:36if only a detailed
06:38background check
06:38had been done
06:39and if only
06:40Ketan had actually
06:41believed some of his suspicions
06:43and acted upon them.
06:45But we will track
06:46that story closely.
06:47The Uttar Pradesh police
06:48today questioned
06:49the general secretary
06:51or the former general secretary
06:52of the Sri Ram Janmabhumi Trust
06:56for nearly three hours.
06:57Champa Trahi
06:58were questioned
06:58for nearly three hours.
06:59He was questioned
07:00about the functioning
07:01of the trust,
07:01the handling
07:02of the donations
07:03that came in,
07:04the administrative decisions
07:05that he took
07:06or didn't take.
07:07Champa Trahi,
07:07of course,
07:08he denied
07:08any wrongdoing
07:09but when several questions
07:11were put to him
07:11and they remained unanswered
07:12during interrogation,
07:14he was asked
07:15why is it
07:15that a police complaint
07:17wasn't made
07:18because Champa Trahi
07:19apparently claims
07:19that he's the one
07:21who found out
07:21something was amiss,
07:22he's the one
07:23who carried out
07:25an investigation
07:25or ordered an investigation,
07:27some amount of money
07:28was recovered.
07:29But when some amount
07:30of money was recovered,
07:31why wasn't a police investigation
07:32ordered immediately?
07:33Why weren't the suspects
07:35not terminated
07:36and handed over
07:36to the police immediately?
07:38Because the biggest question,
07:39this isn't his private money,
07:41this isn't his private organization,
07:43this is trust
07:44of crores and crores
07:46of devotees
07:46across the world
07:48who had given money
07:49for the Sri Ram Janma bhoomi
07:51not to be pilfered
07:52just because
07:53Champa Trahi and others
07:55looked the other way
07:56or were not aware.
07:58We get you more
07:58in this report.
08:09The probe into the embezzlement
08:11of devotees,
08:12donations
08:12of the Ram Mandir
08:13has taken a major turn.
08:18The ambit of the probe
08:19is extended
08:20from the temple premises
08:21to the banking system involved.
08:24Ram Temple Trust
08:26General Secretary
08:26Champa Trahi,
08:27who resigned
08:28from his position
08:28on moral grounds,
08:30was grilled
08:30by the police
08:31for three hours.
08:35India today
08:36has accessed
08:37exclusive information
08:38about the line
08:39of questioning.
08:39The former office
08:41bearer of the trust
08:41was questioned
08:42about functioning
08:43of the trust
08:43and the management
08:44of the donations received.
08:46Champa Trahi denied
08:47any wrongdoing.
08:49However,
08:50he admitted
08:50that employment
08:51was given
08:52to needy people
08:53in the trust.
08:53Champa Trahi was even
08:54unable to answer
08:55some questions
08:56asked by the police.
09:01The SIT has flagged
09:03serious violations
09:04of the standard
09:05operating procedures
09:06and the MOU
09:07with the State Bank of India.
09:10Key lapses include
09:11lack of a joint presence
09:13during counting,
09:14no monthly rotation
09:15of officials,
09:16absence of proper searches
09:17and failure to maintain
09:19separate records
09:20for each donation box.
09:24The SBI
09:25Naya Ghat branch
09:26has become
09:27a focal point
09:28in this particular
09:29investigation
09:30as police
09:30spent four long hours
09:33at this particular
09:34SBI branch
09:35of Ayodhya
09:36from where
09:37we are currently reporting.
09:38You can clearly see
09:39the visuals
09:40of the SBI bank
09:41Naya Ghat branch
09:43out here
09:43where police teams
09:44came here
09:45and spent
09:47around four hours.
09:48They did
09:49questioning
09:49of the SBI members,
09:51SPI officials
09:52and also
09:53looked after
09:54the bank details
09:56of those accused
09:57who are behind
09:58the bars.
10:00Investigators
10:01are now focusing
10:01on the assets
10:02and lifestyle
10:03of the accused.
10:06Ayodhya police
10:06have sought
10:07five years
10:07of banking records
10:08from seven banks.
10:11A delegation
10:12led by
10:13UP Congress
10:14Chief Ajay Rai
10:14was set
10:15to visit
10:15the Ram temple
10:16but the
10:16nine-member
10:17Congress delegation
10:18was detained
10:19in hotels
10:19and stopped
10:20from Darshan.
10:23I am
10:25in the guesthouse
10:28and I
10:29in this guesthouse
10:29and I
10:30have been
10:30in this guesthouse.
10:32You can see
10:33that this
10:34is the
10:34of the
11:13The opposition has called it a bit share of Aastha, but the VJP hit back saying that the same opposition
11:18has denied the existence of Lord Ram before 2017.
11:34The opposition has been closed, the opposition has been closed, and the opposition has been closed.
12:06Even though devotees continue to offer donations with full faith, this case has raised serious
12:11questions about transparency and accountability in the management of those offerings.
12:17With Samaj Srivastava in Ayodhya, Bureau Report, India Today.
12:25So the Uttar Pradesh police have recorded the statement of former Sri Ram Janbhumi
12:29Teerth Kshetra Trust General Secretary Champat Rai.
12:31He was questioned for close to three hours.
12:33He is reported to have told the police.
12:35He initiated investigations, recovered close to 80 lakh rupees.
12:39But the big question is, why was an FIR not registered?
12:42Why were the suspects not handed over to the police?
12:44Why were they not arrested?
12:46Why was a detailed investigation not ordered when even State Bank of India and internal
12:51auditors, according to reports, raised red flag on donation collection and alleged pilferage
12:57and theft?
12:58Opposition today asks, why were Congress leaders who were going to the temple placed
13:03under house arrest?
13:04The Congress is demanding a court-monitored investigation, as is the Samajwadi Party.
13:09Will the government accept?
13:10Joining me on India first is Supriya Srinet, Chairperson, Social Media and Digital Platforms
13:15and National Spokesperson of the Congress.
13:17Radhika Khera, BJP spokesperson.
13:19Vivek Silas represents the Samajwadi Party.
13:22Shri Raj Nair is the spokesperson of the Vishwa Hindu Parishat.
13:25Radhika Khera, UP Congress Chief Ajay Rai has said that he and other Congress leaders were
13:30placed under house arrest and not permitted to visit the temple.
13:35Does this not show fear?
13:36Why were Congress leaders either placed under house arrest or not permitted to go to the temple?
13:43Good evening to everyone.
13:44Gaurav, nobody has ever stopped from going to the temple.
13:48But the Congress Party has never wanted to go to a temple.
13:51They only want to go over there to create chaos.
13:53Because now they are coming to Uttar Pradesh and like their new in-charge has said that
13:57we are going to take 50-50% seats from the Samajwadi Party.
14:01So this is just a political drama and a time that they want to create chaos and try to prove
14:06that those people who don't believe in law drama, who have actually had a battery of lawyers
14:13representing their government saying that law drama does not exist.
14:16Rahul Ghani has recorded that the Mandar is a Mandar party, so I will not go to the temple.
14:21As well as the Sanatana dharam, that has been said by the other shahzada of the Congress,
14:30the son of the National President Khadgei Sahib, who has said that he was rewarded as the Home
14:36Minister of Karnatak, that said that we will finish Sanatana dharam, it's a disease.
14:40So now sudden love for law drama.
14:43And pehle, I think they should look at their own house and settle the scores first.
14:47What has happened in the Sabri Mala case?
14:49Has any inquiry started?
14:51Now same Sabri Mala case, at least over here, when this came, the trust highlighted this issue
14:55Gaurab, the trust found that there were some discrepancies and there was some chori that
15:00took place.
15:01They highlighted it.
15:01They went to the chief minister.
15:02The chief minister ensured that there was an SIT.
15:04The SIT was formed, after which the trustee only went and filed an FIR.
15:10Eight people were arrested.
15:11Investigations are on.
15:13From the smallest to the top, most people are being investigated.
15:16Paataal me chuppe ho or where pei chuppe ho?
15:18They will be caught.
15:19Well, Supriya Srinath, Champat Rai, reportedly to the police, he was not involved, nor aware
15:25of Chandachori.
15:26When he got to know, investigations were initiated.
15:29They've recovered close to 57 lakh in cash and more money deposited in banks subsequently.
15:34But no FIR registered, nor recommended, nor dismissal of those who are involved in this.
15:40Does this response satisfy you as the opposition, ma'am?
15:47So, good evening to you, my fellow panelists and to the viewers.
15:50I want to keep our politics aside for just 30 seconds and ask you a question.
15:55What has happened in Ayodhya?
15:57Is this just a donation scam?
15:59Is this just siphoning of funds?
16:00Is this just filtharage?
16:01Actually not.
16:02This is the biggest assault on Hindu faith, on crores of Hindu devotees and if I may say
16:09145 crore Indians.
16:11Because people from across faith believe in Lord Ram.
16:15They believe in Maryada Purushottam.
16:17They believe that Lord Ram stands for truth and for justice.
16:21And so, I want to ask a question.
16:23What is this assault against?
16:24This assault is against the Hindu religion and our faith.
16:28That's the first point I want to make.
16:30Great shakes that Champat Rai Bansal was called for questioning today.
16:35I want to ask a different question.
16:37An SIT was formed as a knee-jerk reaction.
16:40No FIR was filed against Champat Rai Bansal or Anil Mishra.
16:43Why not?
16:44Why were they left to go scot-free?
16:46They were catching small minions here and there.
16:49I mean, Lovkush and Tinu do you think can give shape to a theft of that nature?
16:55Please understand what has happened.
16:57In the last 40 days, 70 incidents of theft have been unearthed.
17:02Does that leave you wondering what has happened in the last 5 and a half years?
17:0740 days, 70 thefts.
17:09What has happened in the last 5 and a half years?
17:1180 lakhs have been unearthed.
17:12Was this the private property of Champat Rai Bansal that he found 80 lakhs but did not report to the
17:18police?
17:19The SIT, why is that not being made public?
17:21What is the credibility of this trust anymore?
17:26I mean, Champat Rai Bansal resigns and he thinks he can get away with it?
17:29You have left the big sharks so that they can go and settle their ill-gotten wealth somewhere?
17:33I want to ask questions.
17:34The Sindhi community is asking what has happened to 200 kgs of silver that they donated.
17:39Businessmen are asking what happened to the gold bricks?
17:42There is a woman who had donated a Kaag Bhushundi which was in gold.
17:45What has happened to that?
17:47Multiple people are asking.
17:48Receipts were not given.
17:49Where has all that money gone?
17:51Do you get a sense if 80 lakhs can be unearthed in 40 days, what kind of wealth has gone?
17:57And I will just say one last thing.
17:59And that one last thing needs to be said very clearly.
18:02Champat Rai Bansal, the theft started on the day land worth 2 crores was sold in 10 minutes at 18
18:09crores.
18:10Mahipal said 5 lakh worth of fund is being siphoned off every day.
18:15He was sacked.
18:16Two other people said that they were sacked.
18:18Why did Champat Rai Bansal not act on that?
18:20And one last point that I want to make for your viewers.
18:23And let's ponder over this.
18:25This temple was built with the Supreme Court order.
18:29Who did the Bhumi Poojan?
18:31Mr. Modi.
18:31Who did the Shilanyas?
18:32Mr. Modi.
18:33Who did the inauguration?
18:34Mr. Modi.
18:35The Pran Pratishta was done by him.
18:37The Dhwaja Rohana was done by him.
18:38The trust was appointed by him.
18:40Each one of them handpicked by the Prime Minister.
18:43Some of his favorite bureaucrats there, all men associated with the RSS.
18:47Why is he quiet on this?
18:48He is busy collecting some shady, misspelt awards in session.
18:53He doesn't want to talk about something that has eroded the fame of crores of Hindus.
18:58Okay.
18:58Radhika Khera to respond to some of the very pertinent points you raised about the Sridam Jan movie tells.
19:03Let Radhika Khera respond to this.
19:04I will come back to you.
19:05Radhika Khera quickly.
19:07This is not Champat Rai's personal trust.
19:09Why was an FIR not done initially when he found out something was amiss?
19:13I mean, now he is trying to be a whistleblower.
19:15He is trying to be a whistleblower.
19:16He should have got the first FIR registered.
19:19Gaurav ji, Congress has a habit of lying.
19:22They have a habit of creating fake documents, lying about people and holding fake press conferences,
19:28which was exactly done by Madam Supriya Sinead, who is on the debate right now.
19:32And she brought up the point of the Sindhi community stand that she raised in her press conference.
19:37And let me just break it down here for you.
19:39The Sindhi community stand has been clarified.
19:42Dr. Raju V. Manwani, the chairman of the Vishwa Sindhi, Seva Samaghan,
19:46who initially requested the receipt of 200 kgs of silver bricks,
19:49especially specifically stated to the media via ANI and PTI that he never accused the trust of theft or file
19:56any case.
19:57He explicitly clarified that his request was merely for administrative record and receipts
20:02and that they completely trust the ongoing investigation by Prime Minister Srinarendra Modi and CM Yogi's SIT.
20:08Second, the internal Sindhi community pushed back against the controversy.
20:12Let me raise that as well.
20:14Because again, she has lied.
20:15They have openly swaned the misleading narrative.
20:18They have publicly issued statements stating that rumors of missing 200 silver bricks are entirely misleading
20:23and politically motivated by people such as Madam Supriya Sinead sitting on your show right now
20:29to defend the Ram Mandir trust because it was made clear from the start.
20:33But how is she defaming the Ram Mandir trust?
20:36It's the actions of those who are allegedly involved in the theft who that's defamed the trust.
20:41I will come to that.
20:41Is Shampadra is coming?
20:43Let me, no ma'am, you have been decimated.
20:46You lie through your teeth and that's what the Congress is known for.
20:49And then Rahul Gandhi, Mafi Maafi, nine times Rahul Gandhi,
20:51Maangur Maafi, five times Jairam Ramej, three times Paman Khera Ji and they have a habit.
21:00That's completely unwarranted for today's debate, but Supriya Sinead wants to respond.
21:05Supriya Sinead wants to respond to you.
21:07I have to bring in Sriraj Nair and Vivek Silas also.
21:12Can I make a small point, please?
21:15Supriya Sinead, go on.
21:17Can I make a small point, please?
21:19Yes.
21:19I come from Uttar Pradesh, maybe the BJP spokesperson isn't aware.
21:24A very glaring report has come out today.
21:27And that report talks about a private security agency that was deployed by Champat Rai Bansal
21:34at a cost of 1 crore rupee a month.
21:37It had 400 security personnels and they were appointed on routes through which the donation was taken to the banks.
21:45SBI just three months back had flagged off this issue that there seems to be certain discrepancies.
21:51The standard operating procedures are not being made.
21:54The central force there is the state force there.
21:58Why do you need a 400 people private security agency linked to a BJP functionary,
22:04a man close to the RSS in Bihar?
22:06Bihar, 1 crore rupees a month which means 12 crore rupees of donations was being deployed by Champat Rai Bansal
22:12for what good?
22:13The other point that I want to make, why was an FIR not lodged against Champat Rai Bansal himself?
22:18He is in the eye of the storm.
22:21He was the dharta dharta of the trust.
22:23Let me get Sriraj Nair to respond to that.
22:25I have to bring in our other guests quickly into this conversation.
22:28Yes, quickly, quickly.
22:29Let me bring in Sriraj Nair because Sriraj Nair, these are pertinent points.
22:33Congress may be a political party.
22:35Samajwadi may be a political party.
22:37But devotees of Lord Ram are asking the same question.
22:40Why did Champat Rai, who is hailed by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad as Ramji ke Patwari,
22:46not lodge an FIR immediately and seek the dismissal from service of those who indulged in Chandachori?
22:51Sir, his actions don't seem to add up.
22:59Well, Gaurav, when all this incident happened in the first week of June,
23:03it was Mr. Chandpat Rai and the trust which went on with a request for the formation of SIT.
23:09SIT was formed and interim report has been submitted to the concerned authorities.
23:13Eight people have been arrested.
23:14Now, the investigation has not been over.
23:17The SIT has asked for more time.
23:19While we definitely agree and there has been resignations also from Mr. Champat Rai and Mr. Anil Mishra,
23:28whatever has happened is absolutely unimaginable and it has pained the Hindus across the world.
23:35And now, this cannot be termed as a scam because definitely Congress party is known for scam,
23:41right from Jeep scam to 2G, Spectrum, Commonwealth and so on and their leaders are on bail.
23:48That's a different aspect altogether.
23:50How is this not a scam?
23:52But at the same time, why are they insisting?
23:55There is a law and order.
23:56Their leaders, they flashed a constitution in the parliament.
24:00Don't they know that the law and order also comes under the constitution of this country?
24:04Let the law take its own course.
24:06We are not shielding anybody.
24:08We believe the law of the land is supreme.
24:11Anybody, irrespective of the position, one holds in the trust, they have to go.
24:17That is for sure.
24:18Vivek Silas, does that answer satisfy the Samajwani Party?
24:20It will be fine, but let us wait for the final report of the SIT.
24:26Let us not jump the guns.
24:28Now, here in Kerala also, you were showing about Shabrimala.
24:30It was after the high court direction, SIT was formed.
24:34Here, the trust itself went on with a request for the formation of an SIT.
24:41The Congress Party, which never believed in Bhagavan Ram, today maybe because of this
24:47incidence, now they have become Ram Premi, Ram Bhakt.
24:51All these years, they said Ram is a kalparic figure, imaginary figure.
24:57Okay, Vivek Silas, respond to this.
24:57SIT has been formed.
24:59Eight people have been arrested.
25:00Champad Rai hasn't been let off the hook.
25:02He's been questioned.
25:03If more evidence turns up, action will be taken.
25:06Now, they are saying whether it's the Congress or the Samajwani Party, leaders haven't
25:10visited, top leaders haven't visited the Ramjan Bhumi, they have no faith in Shri Ram or
25:16the temple.
25:16For them, it's only politics before elections.
25:19I would just like to say the people who are defending these criminals and the people who
25:24have betrayed the trust as well, the trust of millions of people across India are the
25:32bigger sinners than the people who have committed this crime, the people who are trying to defend.
25:36Today, there's one Mr. Arjun Dev, who was the radio messaging head of Lord Ram Temple.
25:43He was accountable to see 1600, 1600 CCTVs across the temple.
25:50He has been transferred to Gorakhpur today.
25:53Why?
25:53That is the question, you know.
25:54There were 400 security people and who were getting, Supriyaji was absolutely right.
25:59They were getting a salary of 1 crore a month and he was, the security agency also belongs
26:05to a leader from Bihar, from the Bharti and the party.
26:09So, all these things still can serve to the SIT.
26:10So, the most important question today is, why the SIT interim report has not been made
26:16public?
26:17Because the entire India wants to know actually what happened, you know.
26:20Okay.
26:20Supriyashree, how would you respond to the BJP and the VHP saying, prompt investigations ordered,
26:26SIT formed, FIR registered, 8 arrested, more being questioned, none will be spared.
26:32Does that satisfy you if they claim nothing is being brushed under the carpet?
26:38Who are the 8 arrested?
26:40Tinnu Pinnu.
26:41Who are the 8 arrested?
26:42Lavkus Mishra who was earning a salary of 12,000 rupees.
26:45You think all these little miniers have been able to siphon off the funds.
26:49All of these little miniers were caught in 40 days doing 70 thefts.
26:53You don't think as devotees, any of us would want to know what has happened in the last
26:57five and a half, quarter to six years.
26:59I mean, what are we debating here?
27:01And who are we defending?
27:02Does the BJP and the VHP realize this is not your private trust?
27:09This is one of the biggest scams that has hit the temple of Lord Ram.
27:13And questions will be raised.
27:15Who are we defending?
27:16Why are we even getting to the defense?
27:17It's just we are theft.
27:18If anything, there is a limited distance with these fellows.
27:21I want you to ask you a question.
27:23One by one.
27:24Let me Srineth complete a point.
27:24Don't speak in between.
27:25I'm still talking.
27:26I have a question to ask of you.
27:29I mean, who are we defending is the big question.
27:31And I want to go back to one point.
27:3312,000 money, 12,000 salary is what Lavkus Mishra was making.
27:37You think that man could have siphoned off the funds?
27:40Why was Mahipal sad?
27:41Mahipal was the first to raise the red flag and say there is a 5 lakh theft happening every single
27:47day.
27:47How could Champat Rai as the general secretary not know what Tinnu Yadav was up to?
27:52What were his known sources of income?
27:54And why is Narendra Mogi not talking on it?
27:59Supriya Shunet, you've been heard.
28:00Let Radhika Khera respond to these pertinent points that are being raised.
28:04You know, Vivek Silas raises the issue of that radio operator, inspector Arjun Dev.
28:10Radio maintenance officer, repeatedly staying in Ayodhya.
28:14Whose blessings did he have?
28:17Radhika Khera.
28:17First of all, Gaurav Sawan Ji, Mahanirya Pradhan Mantri, Shri Narendra Modi Ji is a Pradhan Mantri.
28:23Supriya Shunet's driver or his karma is not that Narendra Modi, Narendra Modi, Narendra Modi.
28:28I'm sure even as a journalist, she has learned these basic things.
28:31She went to Loretto and I'm very aware that you are from Uttar Pradesh and I even know what your
28:35stand on law drama was and how you, what you spoke to Rahul Rani Ji about it.
28:38So let me not get there.
28:39Now coming back to this, she was talking about Ram Bhakto ko jabab den.
28:42Absolutely, Ram Bhaks have spoken to the drama that you people and the controversy, come Adam, don't speak over me.
28:48I didn't speak over you, control.
28:50So now the Ram Bhaks have spoken.
28:52Now after the drama that, see, there has been a loot that has been caught and inquiry is on and
28:57people are going to be jailed and we are going to leave the actual, and we're going to nip it
29:01at the bud.
29:01But how have the Ram Bhaks responded to this, Gaurab?
29:05And it is a report of India today itself.
29:06I'm only going to quote India today today.
29:08That the actual dan has doubled from, more than doubled from 10 lakhs to nearly 24 lakhs a day after
29:16this controversy broke out.
29:17And the people going to Ram Mandira Yodhya has increased.
29:20So that is how the devotees have answered the controversy and the drama that does not Ram Bhak.
29:25Yes, but the devotees also expect justice and action against all those and not just as Satya Shri had put
29:31it.
29:31This is a reply because they believe, Gaurab, you never spoke over Supriya.
29:38Let me complete.
29:39I need to respond.
29:40This is a reply from the Bugs that they believe that the investigation that is being monitored by Honorable Prime
29:46Minister Srinarendra Modi himself and our Chief Minister is also looking into it.
29:51They believe in that, which is why.
29:53Okay.
29:54We'll be tracking the story.
29:55Breaking news that's coming in from the United States.
29:57I want to thank all my guests on this part of the show.
29:59But I have to get to that breaking news story that's coming in from the U.S.
30:03And that's a huge setback for U.S. President Donald Trump.
30:06The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled to keep birthright citizenship in place.
30:11The Supreme Court has upheld the right to citizenship for children born in the United States of America, rejecting President
30:22Trump's executive order.
30:24President Trump's executive order sought to undo that long-standing constitutional principle for children born to immigrants.
30:34The court ruling says, and I quote,
30:54The citizenship clause for the 14th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and remember, this was adopted in 1868.
31:04This says, and I quote once again,
31:08All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United
31:17States and of the states wherein they reside.
31:21Unquote.
31:22Remember, this case is Donald Trump versus Barbara.
31:27The court's justices had already signed during oral arguments in April that they would affirm that individuals born in the
31:35United States to non-U.S. citizens are also automatically granted citizenship.
31:41President Trump even attended the oral arguments for this case, and he was the first sitting president to ever do
31:50so.
31:50I quickly want to cut across to Washington, D.C., where Rohit Sharma, my colleague, joins me with the latest.
31:56Rohit, would President Trump see this as yet another major setback for him?
32:03Well, I think, you know, he was very happy with the Supreme Court rulings on immigration last week.
32:07I think there were two rulings that, you know, that was really celebrated by the White House.
32:11This one was a tough one.
32:12I think President Trump had also acknowledged this even yesterday, saying he will have to accept whatever the Supreme Court
32:17does.
32:18But I think, you know, even by his own, you know, supporters, everybody believed that this could be a very
32:24tough one to crack on.
32:25Because as you just reported, you said, Gaurav, this has been set in stone for like a century or more
32:30than that.
32:31So I believe there is a way to do it.
32:33I mean, that would be to go to Congress, have it done the right way by amending the language and
32:38then, you know, making sure that the amendment goes through with two thirds of majority.
32:42But yes, it did give, you know, a lot of headache to a lot of people, especially knowing that, you
32:47know, this administration was going to be stricter with immigration.
32:50And had the Supreme Court ruled otherwise, it could have created a big mess for a lot of people living
32:55in the United States.
32:57So, Prane Upadhyay, who joins me on the show now, Prane, respite for children born to immigrants in the United
33:04States of America,
33:05because there had been a lot of panic, especially amongst immigrants and their children.
33:11Absolutely, Gaurav.
33:12United States is a country which is made up of immigrants.
33:15And in fact, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that this executive order of President Donald Trump,
33:20which was issued on the first day of his office, January 20th in 2025,
33:26and in fact, that is actually in violation of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
33:30Besides that, this is also contrary to the U.S. law of Immigration and Nationality Act.
33:39And therefore, that's why the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled and in fact, struck down this executive order of
33:47President Donald Trump.
33:48But this is yet another setback, right from H-1B visa fee hike, right from the reciprocal tariff.
33:53This is yet another setback for President Donald Trump and as far as his policies are concerned.
33:57Keep writing that story. Pranay and Rohit, for the moment, many thanks for joining me.
34:01Need to slip into a very quick more breaking news coming in.
34:04Prime Minister Narendra Modi had a very detailed meeting with secretaries to Government of India at the Seva Teertan.
34:11This was a long meeting. The discussion focused on two key themes.
34:17One, deregulation.
34:18The other, ease of doing business and ease of living.
34:22The second was more about promoting Atmanirbharata and Beyond Defence.
34:27Now, during this interaction, the secretaries outlined major steps being taken by their respective ministries and departments
34:34in line with these two key themes.
34:37Less government, more governance and on Atmanirbharata.
34:41They highlighted ongoing efforts to translate the Prime Minister's vision into actionable outcomes.
34:47They discussed sector-specific challenges that they were facing.
34:51They outlined how they were meeting these challenges and future strategies to enhance more governance,
34:59less government and better service delivery for the people of this country.
35:06I quickly want to bring in Maria Shaquille for more on this.
35:09Maria, key takeaways from this very crucial meeting and this was apparently a very long meeting with secretaries.
35:16The Prime Minister has already had one with ministers, now with secretaries.
35:19Yes, so it started around 4.30 Gaurav and it has just now ended and this was clearly in sync
35:26with what we were told earlier
35:27was the agenda of the meeting which was about the ease of doing business.
35:31The focus was on Atmanirbharata and the reforms that could prepare India for 2047.
35:37The idea of whole of government approach that they should not be working in silos but the government should be
35:43seen to be working in complete tandem.
35:46The government and the government and the various departments should work in sync.
35:50That has been the larger message that came from the Prime Minister and of course implementation of his larger vision.
35:57Remember the last meeting was on 21st of May which happened in Bharat Mandapam where Prime Minister Narendra Modi
36:04had his Union Council of Ministers colleagues do presentation and this time it was the secretaries in these respective ministries
36:12do three minute presentation each.
36:15Most of these were infra ministries, the infrastructure ministries which have been about Gatti or the speed at which the
36:21government should be functioning.
36:22So overall the meeting coming to an end, this was a review meeting but at the same time preparing India
36:29for reforms
36:30as the Prime Minister has been speaking about reforms express.
36:33So three minute presentation being done by each of these secretaries and all that meeting finally ending
36:39with a big message coming in from the Prime Minister himself.
36:42Maria, keep racking that story. I will come back to you.
36:45Fistani ministers and even the generals are flapping almost like headless chicken.
36:50Their climate change minister has just threatened India.
36:54Words to the effect that they'll chop off the hands that lay claim to their share of water.
36:59This is Musadik Malik on the Indus Waters Treaty being held in abeyance.
37:03Now they've claimed that India controlled Pakistan's share of waters.
37:07They are claiming that they will not let anyone obstruct their water.
37:12What Pakistan is doing is now doing a lot of high toba.
37:15It's doing a lot of breast beating across the world.
37:18In Europe, in the United States of America saying please help.
37:21But the problem, real problem is internal for Pakistan.
37:25Is it? Because they haven't been able to handle this situation.
37:29After Operation Sindhur, India made one thing very clear.
37:32After that, Pahlgam terror attack.
37:33Blood and water cannot float together.
37:36I have my guests joining me on the show.
37:39But before that, just listen in to the Pakistani climate minister.
37:43The moment we feel that our national security, water is part of our national security, is being threatened.
37:47We'll go to war against India.
37:49Definitely.
37:50Okay.
37:50Kisiko shaknig honna chaihiya.
37:51Pani joe hai bhai.
37:52Pani jindagi hai.
37:54Insan joe hai bhai pani se pada ho ho ho ho hai.
37:55The whole thing, the universe joe hai pani se pada ho ho ho ho ho ho.
37:57So water is life.
38:23So how should one interpret these repeated threats from Pakistan on Indus Waters treaty?
38:28Can Pakistan resort to terror?
38:30Wage war?
38:31Or is this just an impotent rant of a frustrated nation with absolutely no options left?
38:37Joining India first is Major Adil Raja, former Pakistan Army officer and now journalist.
38:42Professor Brahma Jalani is one of India's foremost strategic affairs voices,
38:46former advisor to National Security Council and Sandeep Unnithan senior journalist.
38:50Gentlemen, welcome.
38:51Major Raja, how would you interpret the repeated threats from Pakistan's ministers and generals?
38:56Generals, is this for internal consumption?
38:59Or is it seeking international intervention?
39:02Well, two words, Gaurav.
39:04First is a forestation and the second is desperation.
39:08And I would definitely, you know, object to you saying that it is the forestation of a nation.
39:15Well, nation is much more than forestated.
39:18They are frustrated, actually.
39:19And they cannot actually now, they don't feel like defining their condition because their mandate have been stolen by a
39:28regime which is now boasting about, you know, attacking India.
39:32Well, let's talk about the forestation and the desperation of the Pakistani regime, which is seeking earlier, which is seeking
39:40legitimacy through a peace process through out of which they've been thrown out, actually.
39:45And now it is at Doha, which is leading the U.S.-Iran peace process.
39:49And now once we talk about water, Gaurav, water is an existential issue for Pakistan, for the poor people of
39:57Pakistan.
39:58There cannot be no life without water.
40:00And I don't believe that the Indian policy would eventually, you know, stop water for any human being.
40:08But yes, the proxy elements launched by the Pakistani regime as a policy has been a serious issue for India.
40:18And because there was a track 2 dialogue going on as far as India was concerned, and it was track
40:251.5 for Pakistan, latest round was in Colombo last week.
40:30And Pakistanis were expecting, the Pakistani regime was expecting that because of that dialogue, something will come out of it.
40:38Because Pakistan was sending their serving director general South Asia of the Foreign Office, Sajjad Ali Khan, was part of
40:45the dialogue.
40:46Well, India made it very clear.
40:48You heard India's foreign secretary who made it very clear.
40:51In India, there's nothing official about these track 2s.
40:53They're all private bodies, private individuals.
40:56They can say whatever.
40:57They didn't have government of India sanctioned.
40:58But Professor Chalani, India has held the treaty in abeyance.
41:02Give me a moment.
41:03Give me a moment, Major Raja.
41:05Professor Chalani, India has held the treaty in abeyance, saying blood and water cannot flow together.
41:10India, at a later date, perhaps we want to renegotiate the story,
41:13but in the treaty, in a terror-free environment.
41:16But should India be worried about these threats that come from Pakistani ministers and generals, sir?
41:22Well, these crude threats shouldn't worry India.
41:26But I think the more fundamental issue is this,
41:30that the Indus Waters Treaty is unique in world history.
41:36There's no other water-sharing treaty in the world that comes anywhere close to the Indus Waters Treaty
41:43in terms of generosity toward the lower Iperian.
41:49India reserved the bulk of the waters of the sixth river in this system for Pakistan, more than 80%.
41:56There's no other treaty in the world that has even reserved 50% of the waters of an international river
42:06for the downstream country.
42:08Now, this generosity toward an adversary state clearly was a folly on the part of India.
42:17And to make matters worse, when the Modi government finally sought to tackle this issue,
42:24it put the treaty in abeyance.
42:27International law recognizes a state party's right to abrogate or suspend a treaty.
42:36But the term placing it in abeyance does not exist in international law.
42:42So I think these half measures, half measures on the part of India are only fueling this kind of uncouth
42:52language from the Pakistanis.
42:55India should have either abrogated the treaty or suspended it.
43:00If you suspend a treaty, you are within your rights, legal rights, to do so.
43:06And in fact, suspension is often the first step towards termination of a treaty.
43:12And renegotiation. India has repeatedly sought renegotiation.
43:16Pakistan didn't even respond.
43:17But Sandeep, Pakistan is led by a jihadi general.
43:21And Major Adil can tell us more about how dangerous that situation could be.
43:24To strengthen his hold over power, he resorted to the terror attack in Pahlgaam.
43:29And then he wormed his way into Donald Trump's good books.
43:32Two red flags for India.
43:34Is there a fear he may do so again and use Indus Water's treaty being held in abeyance as an
43:38excuse?
43:39Absolutely, Gaurav.
43:40You know, and what we've seen in the last couple of months is Pakistan has been projecting all its internal
43:45problems.
43:46They're trying to find external enemies to fight.
43:48And the newest red flag that they have kind of tried to wave is this Indus Water's treaty,
43:53which, as Professor Chalani explained, is one of the most unequal treaties in the world.
43:58No other riparian state gets 80 percent of the waters.
44:00Now, look at Pakistan.
44:03The way it has mismanaged its water resources, Gaurav, in the last couple of years,
44:07it's built so few water reservoirs.
44:09It's got one of the world's worst per capita water storage anywhere in the world.
44:15They have one of the lowest, you know, per capita storage.
44:19They have something like just about 30 to 60 days of water storage,
44:23whereas in India it's something like 170.
44:25There is a mandated figure of about 120 days.
44:28Guess where all the money is getting spent, Gaurav?
44:31It's getting spent on the military.
44:32You have not built even dams.
44:34You have not built reservoirs to even store your share of the 80 percent of the six rivers that are
44:40flowing in.
44:40That's a very pertinent point that you raise, Major Raja.
44:43Major Raja, Pakistan hasn't built dams.
44:46It hasn't built reservoirs to deal with the water crisis.
44:48All they've done is fatten that Pakistan military terror complex.
44:53Is that situation likely to worse?
44:55And will Pakistan resort to terror?
44:58Or, sir, are lessons from Operation Sindhur now internalized at least by Pakistan's army?
45:03And it has two fronts to deal with, including now the boiling durand line?
45:09Well, Gaurav, in the presence of the strategic deterrence, which is almost absolute,
45:14Pakistan simply cannot match the conventional strength of the Indian military.
45:19So that is why they were banking on this so-called track 1.5 for Pakistan and track 2 for,
45:25you know, India.
45:27But the Indian foreign secretary really, you know, made it clear yesterday.
45:32And afterwards, the reaction which we are seeing is in the shape of the Pakistanis' illegitimate regime
45:37coming forward and making these threats.
45:39Well, having said that, the Pakistani military-led regime also banks on anti-India rhetoric for its legitimacy,
45:49specifically the field marshal Aasem Muneer.
45:52He cannot survive without the Indian anonymity,
45:56and he cannot survive without portraying India as the boogeyman for Pakistan.
46:00But there is a delicate balance to be struck, you know,
46:03because if at all Pakistan does go to war with India,
46:07it has got an open, hot border at the Western Front,
46:10and the strategic depth in Afghanistan have become a strategic trap,
46:15a rather strategic death now.
46:17And that is why during the track 2 diplomacy,
46:20Pakistanis complained to the Indians,
46:23not complained, rather requested, pleaded to the Indian side,
46:26to General Narwaneh to do something about Afghanistan.
46:30And they complained and they cribbed about Afghanistan.
46:33Why are they doing that?
46:34Because they know that they cannot simply fight a two-front war.
46:39And that is one of the issues.
46:40The second biggest issue over here is that Pakistan,
46:44even if it goes for a one-front war,
46:46in the presence of an absolute strategic deterrence,
46:49they can threaten the nuclear blackmail,
46:53but they simply cannot go for a conflict.
46:56Either a strategic conflict, a nuclear conflict,
46:59or a conventional conflict,
47:02because conventionally the force is not, you know,
47:05big enough to fight an internal war.
47:07There are several internal conflicts going on in Pakistan,
47:11in Balochistan, in Khaibar Pakhtunkhwa,
47:13and now with Afghanistan as well.
47:16Very pertinent points you raise, sir.
47:18How can you fight internally and externally?
47:19You don't have that kind of a force available to you.
47:21So they are banking on various conferences and track 2 or 1.5 or international pressure.
47:26So you're saying it's the impotent rank of frustrated Pakistanis with no options.
47:33Professor Chalani, would you agree with that assessment that Pakistan army is not fit for war,
47:39especially with so many fronts opened up?
47:41Afghanistan, Balochistan, Khaibar Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir,
47:46and of course, Tehrik-e-Labbek, they could try and avenge the massacre of TLP in Pakistan's Punjab province.
47:53Well, I agree with you, Gaurav, but I think we should re-look at Operation Sindhuur.
48:00Terminating Operation Sindhuur, just three and a half days after launching it,
48:05just when the Indian army and air force had gained the upper hand on the battlefield,
48:11was, in my view, a mistake,
48:14because we should have carried it toward a point where it was clear to the world
48:19that Pakistan had been humiliated, had been defeated.
48:26Had we done that, had we carried on this operation for a couple of more days at least,
48:31because the operation was suspended just hours after
48:34India, Indian air force hammered and decimated Pakistan's air defences
48:40and devastated its air bases.
48:44Gentlemen, I'd love to have a much longer conversation with you.
48:48I'm so sorry.
48:49I've absolutely run out of time on this part of the show.
48:52Pakistan is crying tears of blood, and that's a story.
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