- 27 minutes ago
As the probe into the Ram Mandir donation scam intensifies, CVoter survey indicate that the scandal has impacted the credibility of the BJP and public faith in the temple trust.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00So let's raise the big questions tonight.
00:03Can the BJP deflect political accountability from the scam?
00:07Is the BJP wary of a 2024 UP setback repeating?
00:12Will the Ram Mandir loot be the BJP's 2027 Waterloo in India's most politically crucial state?
00:18Joining me now, Sanju Verma, BJP's Evergreen National Spokesperson.
00:23Mohan Kumar Mangalam is Congress National Spokesperson.
00:26joins me. Yashwan Deshmukh, founder of C-Voter and C-Voter has done a political stock exchange.
00:32Look at the public view of how they are responding to the Ram Mandir allegations.
00:36And we'll come to that in a moment. Maybe we should start with that.
00:41Let me, Yashwan Deshmukh, before I come to the politicians, put up what your C-Voter political stock exchange found
00:48out.
00:49You did a survey and the survey's findings, which I'm now going to put on screen,
00:53clearly show that the Ram Mandir issue and the alleged loot that has taken place in the temple
01:00has affected credibility of the Bharatiya Janata Party in particular
01:06and people's faith in the Ram temple.
01:09Do you want to explain what your survey found out?
01:13How your survey saw this?
01:17Well, Rajdeep, people are hurt and I don't think anybody on the panel would disagree with that.
01:24Even the BJP spokesperson wouldn't disagree with that.
01:27So obviously, this, I mean, there are temples and there are temples and there is Ram temple.
01:33It's not just a question of being any other temple and how the sentiments are associated with that.
01:39Ram temple happens to be deeply associated with the cultural identity and deep and rooted faith issues in India
01:46and the majority of the Hindus in India.
01:48I mean, no questions about that.
01:50So obviously, if there is anything that diminishes that or demoralizes that emotion...
01:56Let me just repeat the numbers.
02:00Yashwan, as per your poll, NDA voters, 53.7% said yes.
02:05These allegations have affected your trust.
02:08NDA voters.
02:10Opposition voters, 55.8%, 39.8%.
02:13The worry, of course, is I presume this survey was done just a week or 10 days ago.
02:1853.7% said that the allegations of Chori in the trust have affected their faith.
02:26Now, those are serious numbers.
02:28They are pretty solid numbers.
02:30And this certainly is one of those issues where you are looking at the non-partisan way of looking at
02:36the numbers.
02:37Rajdeep, that is very critical.
02:38Of course, I get your point that NDA voters, a huge majority of them.
02:42But it's the same number, it's a position, same number.
02:45I mean, almost around 54, 55% when you look at it.
02:49That means this issue has gone beyond just the political partisanship.
02:53I mean, it's not that it can be taken only into the political principle.
02:59Of course, Ayodhya was political.
03:00Of course, BJP got benefited of the Ayodhya movement politically.
03:04But this is also providing us enough evidence that this issue is beyond politics.
03:11This temple is beyond politics.
03:14The issue of Ayodhya has now gained a position which is beyond politics.
03:19For anybody voting against that emotion, even if it is BJP, would be on the wrong side of the public
03:26sentiment.
03:27One of the interesting figures, do you believe the matter will be investigated fairly?
03:3248% of NDA voters said definitely yes.
03:3511% said probably yes.
03:37So about 60% say it will be investigated fairly.
03:41Numbers are presumably with the opposition much higher of those who believe it won't be investigated fairly.
03:47Probably not say 38.8.
03:49Definitely not say 16.2.
03:51So net-net what's happening, people feel it's a breach of trust.
03:55But within NDA voters, at least there is a hope that the matter will be investigated fairly.
04:01Sanju Verma, respond to what those numbers in this political stock exchange are showing.
04:05Clearly, there is a sense that trust and faith has been betrayed, even among NDA voters.
04:12Yes, they are hopeful.
04:14Hopeful that there will be an independent inquiry.
04:17But given the fact that this is so closely associated with the BJP, do you concede six months ahead of
04:24UP elections, this is a major blow that you've had to face?
04:29So, Radheep, first things first.
04:32As a proud, practicing Hindu, am I disturbed?
04:36Yes.
04:36Am I angry?
04:37Yes.
04:37Am I upset?
04:38Yes.
04:39Am I shocked?
04:40Yes.
04:40So, I'm not going to sit here and wax elopement that the chori or the loot that has happened at
04:45Ram Mandir does not affect me.
04:47So, that is my point number one.
04:50Do I partially agree with Yashwan Deshmukh?
04:52Most certainly, yes.
04:54Now, where I disagree, and I want to make this point very, very robustly on your show.
05:01The FIP was formed, the whistleblower's allegations were taken cognizant of, FIR was registered, eight people were arrested, five are
05:10being interrogated, if need be, there will be a judicial inquiry.
05:14No one is saying Champat Rai will be spared if found guilty.
05:17No one is saying Anil Mishra will be spared if found guilty.
05:20If I fail to understand one thing, how on God's green earth, how on God's green earth can Rahul Gandhi
05:31say that?
05:33Oh, we are very disappointed in Ram Mandir's loot.
05:36Rahul Gandhi is Hinduphobic.
05:38He is a pseudo-secular.
05:40Priyanka Vardra is pseudo-secular.
05:42This Priyanka Vardra has not said one word about Hindus, she only sheds copious tears about the victims in Gaza.
05:51She is a pseudo-secular.
06:02How dare the darbari ecosystem lecture the BJP?
06:06I have been asked Rajdeep on various shows.
06:16Because prior to Narendra Modi coming to power in 2014,
06:21Rudraksh pahna, vibhuti lagana, kalabha pahna, people used to mock Hindus.
06:27Today I am saying that we are Hindu.
06:30Because we are Hindu.
06:31Yeah, but we cannot say that we are a priest.
06:35Ms. Sanju Verma, say that we are Hindu.
06:38Say that we are a priest.
06:40In the name of a priest.
06:42One thing.
06:42No, no, madam.
06:43Madam, now I have heard.
06:44No, no, one minute, madam.
06:45You have made a...
06:46No, no, one minute.
06:48Madam, one minute.
06:49One minute.
06:49There is another participant against...
06:51You have made serious charges against the Congress.
06:54You are saying it's the hypocrisy.
06:55All I said, Garb se kaho, hum chor hain.
06:58Cannot be a slogan anymore.
07:00No, no, can I please...
07:02One minute.
07:02Mohan Kumar Manglam, respond to what you heard.
07:05Sanju Verma says, she concedes that what has happened is shocking, it's shameful.
07:10But the Congress is no one to lecture the BJP on the Ram Mandir,
07:15given the fact that the Congress itself, she claims,
07:19was never fully on board with the Ram Janma Bhumi movement.
07:23And the Congress itself is pseudo-secular.
07:29Rajdeep ji, the word pseudo-secular was used several times with no basis.
07:34In fact, it leads me to say that actually the people who are pseudo-Hindus are the BJP,
07:40who only use the Hindu religion and Hindus for their political benefit and nothing more.
07:44If you look at this particular case, the original sin actually happened all the way back in 2021,
07:50when a 2 crore land in 10 minutes was sold for 18 crore to the trust.
07:54If back then we took those allegations seriously,
07:57which, by the way, have brought to light in a press meet by Mrs. Priyanka Gandhi Badra,
08:02then from then onwards, maybe we would have had some way to stop this loot.
08:05And this goes beyond the BJP.
08:07This goes directly to the Prime Minister.
08:09Because it is Modi who did the Bhumi Poojan, the Selianayas, the inauguration,
08:13the Pranapadhishtha, the flag oil stain.
08:15No, no, no, no, you cannot, don't get excited, Sanju Verma.
08:18He did not interview.
08:18Please keep our audio down when someone else is speaking.
08:21So he won't declare it.
08:21He must own the scandal.
08:23The scale of the scandal itself, frankly, is being hidden.
08:2770 thefts caught on CCTV in just 40 days.
08:29What has happened over five plus years since the inauguration?
08:32And by arresting small staff like Tindu Yadav and Lavkush Mishra
08:37who make 12,000 rupees a month, hid cash in cow duns,
08:40you're basically arresting foot soldiers.
08:43The big crocodiles are still being left to go free.
08:46And if you're so sure that Mr. Champat Rai is going to be arrested
08:50or he is responsible, why isn't he in an FIR yet?
08:54Why is he just being questioned somehow seriously?
08:57And you're talking about taking cognizance of the whistleblowers.
09:00One second.
09:01One second.
09:01One second.
09:02You're talking about why was the whistleblower fired?
09:05Why was Mahipal who flagged five lakh a day?
09:07Why was he fired?
09:09See, you're looking at a full scale.
09:12And why was the trust in Tindu Yadav?
09:16Mohan Kumar Manglam, I have also shown you the numbers.
09:20The numbers show that yes, people are angry.
09:23People believe what has happened is serious.
09:25How do you then translate that anger into actually votes for the Congress?
09:29Because when it comes to the independent investigation,
09:32there is a hope given among NDA supporters
09:34that they are still hopeful the investigation will be independent.
09:37You are making a leap of faith and saying
09:39Prime Minister is responsible for what has happened in Ram Mandir.
09:42How is it a leap of faith?
09:44So, I ask you in electoral terms now.
09:47Now, let him complete, ma'am.
09:49Be patient.
09:50Sabra rakhiyei.
09:51Sanju Varma, sabra rakhiyei.
09:53Every single thing about this trust,
09:56about the Mandir,
09:57was headed up front.
10:00Oh my God, even the Prime Minister's
10:01former Principal Secretary
10:03was made construction manager
10:05for this temple.
10:06How can the Prime Minister
10:08abdicate his responsibility
10:10towards what's happening?
10:12And sure, the voters,
10:13the NDA voters,
10:15if she keeps interrupting me,
10:16it's impossible to talk, Rajivji.
10:17I didn't make,
10:18I didn't make wide allegations
10:20against the leadership.
10:21I'll come to Sanju in a moment.
10:23I am asking you,
10:24go on, Kumar Manglam,
10:25how will it play out politically?
10:28I think unless
10:29those who need to be brought to book
10:32are brought to book successfully,
10:34the people will lose faith.
10:36And if you look at a parallel
10:38to how the NDA
10:39and neatly controversy
10:41has been playing out,
10:42where the man in the hot seat,
10:44Mr. Dharibendra Pradhan,
10:45still has not been held accountable,
10:47I have sincere doubts
10:49that the real culprits behind this
10:51will actually be held accountable.
10:53In fact,
10:54given that the government
10:54is so involved
10:55in this particular trust,
10:57the Prime Minister himself
10:58nominated the 12-member body
11:00and the RSS
11:01that is known to be so close
11:02is Mr. Champathrai,
11:04the Pracharak of the RSS,
11:06nothing less than a Supreme Court
11:08sitting judge monitored probe
11:09would actually convince
11:11the public at large
11:13that the probe has been fair
11:14and the actual culprits
11:16have been identified.
11:18Okay.
11:18Sanju Garma now responds.
11:20You've heard patiently,
11:22somewhat patiently,
11:24the fact is that
11:25this is far more serious
11:26than a routine corruption case.
11:28You will admit that.
11:29You yourself admit it.
11:31All of you,
11:32the opposition justice,
11:33you accuse them of pseudo-secular,
11:35they say you exploited
11:36public sentiment
11:38associated with Ram
11:39for your political benefit.
11:41And now that same public faith
11:43has been exploited
11:44for people's monetary benefit,
11:46what can be more shameful?
11:48This is a normalization of shame.
11:50This is the most shameful thing
11:52that you have exploited
11:53public sentiment
11:54and all of them
11:55are in some way involved
11:56with the sang pariwaar.
11:57How can you distance yourself
11:59from it?
12:01Now, Rajdeep,
12:01I heard you very clearly.
12:03Sanju Garma,
12:04fade her down,
12:05not kariye.
12:05Now, let me respond.
12:07I just want two minutes
12:08of uninterrupted time.
12:10Charlie Hebdo attack,
12:12Brussels attack,
12:13Mecca-Madinan terror bombings,
12:15Manchester bombing.
12:16Darbari ecosystem
12:18says terror has no religion.
12:21Murshidabad Hindus
12:22butchered in 2023
12:23under Mamta Banerji.
12:25Terror has no religion.
12:27Bhaduria rights,
12:28Asan Sol rights,
12:30Jadavpur rights,
12:31Virbhum rights,
12:32Sita Kulchi rights
12:33under Narendra Modi
12:34under Mamta Banerji
12:36but Darbari ecosystem
12:37has no religion.
12:40Don't blame the radical Islamists.
12:42Now, what is this
12:43got to do with Ram Mandir?
12:44I am talking about Ram Mandir.
12:46You are going somewhere else.
12:48Instead of east,
12:49you are turning west.
12:51No response.
12:53You told me,
12:54be patient.
12:55Rajdeep, how is it
12:56that you preach something
12:57but practice something else?
12:59You have to show a little
13:00bhaeryan.
13:02Mahamanad,
13:02show a little bhaeryan.
13:04Now, let me finish.
13:06I have started by saying
13:08let no one be spared.
13:10But my limited point is this.
13:12This is a political debate.
13:14Let's not fool ourselves.
13:15What Rahul Gandhi says
13:16is only a bhaeryan in the mandir.
13:17They are only a bhaeryan.
13:19Will he give the BJP advice?
13:21English, English.
13:22Yes, Akhilesh Yadav.
13:24What did he say?
13:25Akhilesh Yadav's closest confidant.
13:28R.K. Chaudhuri said
13:29Ram Charit Manas
13:30ko aag laga do.
13:32Rahul Gandhi
13:32has said
13:33Vah ji, Vah.
13:34Swami Prasad
13:35Maurya.
13:36Who are the Hindus
13:37have all the
13:38bhaeryan.
13:39Then R.K. Sardesai
13:40has said
13:40everything is good.
13:41R.K. Sardesai
14:02wash itself from
14:03what's happened
14:04and as a result
14:05will you have to
14:06bear a political
14:07fallout in
14:08UP 2027?
14:09Now, I'm answering
14:10a direct question.
14:13Now, I'm answering
14:15a very direct question.
14:27English, English please, English, English, English show.
14:29It's an English show, madam.
14:30Yes, yes.
14:32Yes, yes.
14:32English show.
14:32Shant ho jaiye.
14:33Shant ho jaiye.
14:35Now, let me say
14:36one thing very clearly.
14:38Thank God
14:39it is the double engine
14:40sarkar in Uttar Pradesh
14:42that we are willing
14:43to confront
14:43the bitter truth.
14:45But a few
14:45rotten apples
14:46cannot be the reason
14:48for you to
14:49completely
14:49tarnish
14:50with a black brush
14:51the contribution
14:52of the RSS
14:53the contribution
14:55of the VHP
14:56the contribution
14:57of LK Advani
14:58the contribution
14:59of Huma Bharti
15:00the contribution
15:01of Saadhi Ritambara
15:02the contribution
15:03of none other
15:04than one man.
15:05Who is that man, Radhi?
15:07A man called
15:08Narendra Modi
15:09under whose ages
15:10a 500 year long
15:12civilizational battle
15:14came to fruition.
15:15You will say
15:15all Hindus
15:16because
15:18some people
15:19have found
15:19I never said
15:21please do not
15:22mistake
15:22please do not
15:24put words
15:24in my mouth
15:25on a sensitive issue
15:26madam.
15:27That's unfair
15:28but I think
15:29okay
15:29madam I've heard you
15:31madam I've heard you
15:32now patiently
15:33but Mohan Kumar
15:34I'll ask you this
15:35one more time
15:36before I go to Yashwan
15:37how are you going to
15:37you see
15:38political parties
15:39one thing
15:40is to today
15:41put the BJP
15:42in the dock
15:42elections are
15:43six months away
15:44how are you going
15:45to make
15:45political capital
15:46you and the
15:47Samajwadi party
15:48out of this
15:48because they will say
15:50as Yogi Adityanathi
15:51sings
15:51before 2021
15:53you'll always
15:54oppose the temple
15:55construction.
15:58Rajdeep ji
15:58we are not here
16:00to make
16:00political capital
16:01of this.
16:02You can fool
16:03some of the people
16:04all of the time
16:04but you can't fool
16:05all of the people
16:06all of the time.
16:07The public
16:08is watching
16:08they're seeing
16:09what you're doing
16:10they're seeing
16:11how you're
16:11insulting their fate.
16:12you can wax
16:15eloquence about
16:15or make
16:16false accusations
16:17call us
16:18whatever names
16:18you want
16:19go ahead
16:20and misquote
16:20things the way
16:21Sanju has just done
16:22but people
16:24actually measure
16:25your actions
16:26over your words
16:27and if you look
16:28at what's happened
16:28with the Ram Mandir
16:29every Hindu
16:31in this country
16:32is disappointed
16:34is hurt
16:35and frankly
16:37realizes
16:38that the Prime Minister
16:39today
16:39has lost
16:41all credibility.
16:42So let me
16:43before you go away
16:44please don't
16:44interrupt me
16:46let me quickly
16:47let me quickly
16:49let me quickly
16:49no no one minute
16:50let me for one
16:51no no let me say
16:52Sanju Varmai is saying
16:53why bring the Prime Minister
16:54into this?
16:55Give me a quick answer
16:56why bring Prime Minister
16:57Modi into this?
16:58I told you
16:59in the very beginning
17:00why he's central to this
17:01he has done everything
17:03he has done everything
17:05about this
17:05he did the Bumi Bhujan
17:07he did the Shalanias
17:07he did the inauguration
17:08he did the Pran Rishan
17:09he did the flag posting
17:10he personally created
17:11the trust
17:12and handpicked
17:12its members
17:13how is it
17:14that the Prime Minister
17:15is not central to this?
17:17Okay
17:17I mean
17:17you'd have to
17:18like defy logic
17:20Okay you made your point
17:20you made your point
17:22I want to give a final word
17:23to you
17:24I want to give a final word
17:25to Yashwan
17:26Yashwan we've seen though
17:27the fact is
17:27elections are very separate
17:29from what happened
17:30political control
17:31even the building
17:32of the Ram Mandir
17:33did not help
17:33the BJP in 2024
17:35now will this Chori
17:37change the politics
17:38does it change
17:39the narrative
17:39does it change
17:40the way the elections
17:41of UP will be fought
17:42in 2027?
17:45Well
17:46politically speaking
17:48yes and no
17:49I mean
17:49it's still
17:51too early to say
17:52whether
17:53core Ram Bhakt
17:55core Hindu supporters
17:56will be so hurt
17:58that they will start
17:58voting for Congress
17:59or Samajwadi Party
18:00in UP
18:01you know
18:01that's a long shot
18:03I still
18:04have reservations
18:06on that
18:06whether
18:06that will happen
18:07or not
18:08yes they can
18:09be angry
18:09and they can sit
18:10at home
18:11that might
18:11decrease the turnout
18:13and invariably
18:14hurt the BJP
18:15prospect
18:15that can happen
18:16however
18:17one thing is
18:18very clear
18:19I don't think
18:20in the last
18:2112 years
18:23I would not
18:24consider any
18:25other issue
18:26which had
18:27the potential
18:29of damaging
18:31the right wing
18:33politics of India
18:34more than this
18:35particular issue
18:36and this is
18:38a very serious
18:39serious one
18:40and I think
18:41the BJP
18:43or the RSS
18:44will also run
18:44a really extra mile
18:46in order to do
18:47the damage control
18:48and come around it
18:49so that
18:50you know
18:51they can
18:52maintain the sanctity
18:53of the
18:55as an issue
18:56Sanju Verma
18:57is pointing a finger
18:58at me
18:58and that scares me
18:59so I will give her
19:0020 seconds
19:01and I will count
19:0120 seconds
19:02take your 20 seconds
19:04quickly
19:05my simple
19:06point is this
19:08the congress
19:09was in bed
19:10with the DMK
19:10and DMK
19:11said Sanatan Dharma
19:12is equal to
19:13Dengi, Malaria,
19:14AIDS, COVID
19:15the whole
19:15entire ecosystem
19:16in their face
19:18is a huge
19:18jungle
19:18in Rahul Gandhi
19:19is a huge
19:20jungle
19:21and today
19:21Rahul Gandhi
19:22lays claim
19:23to the
19:24legacy of
19:25Prabhu Ram
19:25and Ram
19:26Mandir
19:26do you think
19:27Hindus are not
19:27smart enough
19:28to see
19:28through the
19:29charade
19:30of Rahul Gandhi
19:30Rahul Gandhi
19:31is a hypocrisy
19:32Jag Jagir
19:33okay you made
19:34your point
19:35you made
19:35your point
19:36ma'am
19:36this is not
19:36the first time
19:37you made it
19:38now you know
19:39the fact is
19:39at the end
19:40of the day
19:41Chanda Chori
19:42has taken place
19:43nothing can be
19:44more shameful
19:45than this
19:46let's be very
19:47clear on it
19:47now you can
19:48make all your
19:48political points
19:49it is shameful
19:52and disgraceful
19:54let me tell you
19:54this today
19:56and you must
19:57accept that
19:58and it would
19:58be a little
19:59it would be
20:00useful at times
20:01like this
20:01to show humility
20:02on all sides
20:03and ensure
20:04okay and ensure
20:06that the culprits
20:07are caught
20:08and that there
20:09is accountability
20:10at all levels
20:11that's all
20:11who wins
20:12who loses
20:13election
20:13they will come
20:14and go
20:14but what has
20:15been done
20:15is the betrayal
20:16of faith
20:17of millions
20:18of people
20:18who had their
20:19asta and gave
20:20donations
20:21please do think
20:22of them today
20:23before you think
20:24of calculating
20:25votes at election
20:26time
20:26and whether
20:27Rahul Gandhi
20:28is what
20:28is immaterial
20:30the fact
20:31is there
20:32has been
20:32chanda chori
20:33simple
20:34simple
20:35c and c
20:36chanda chori
20:39okay
20:39okay
20:40charitra
20:41two c's
20:42replaced by
20:42chanda chori
20:43I appreciate
20:44my guests
20:44joining me
20:45on the show
20:46tonight
20:46Sanju Varma
20:47I will make
20:48sure that next
20:49time I send
20:50you the water
20:50from the studio
20:51when it gets
20:52too hot
20:53thank you
20:53bye for now
20:54bye for now
Comments