Season 4 Wrap: How Tech & Finance Are Distorting Climate Action and How We Think | S04E15 - video Dailymotion

Tangelic Life

🎙️ We came in expecting a technical season about finance and numbers. We're leaving angry, more informed, and somehow still hopeful.  In this Season 4 finale of Tangelic Talks, hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Tamez take stock of everything — every guest, every revelation, every episode that made them need a moment to stare at the wall.  Season 4 asked one question: how do finance and technology drive or distort climate action? Over 14 episodes and conversations with investigative journalists, climate entrepreneurs, AI experts, fossil fuel investigators, and community innovators, what they found was bigger, more connected, and more urgent than either of them expected.  This is the conversation after the season. Honest, reflective, and genuinely hopeful — despite everything.  In This Episode, We Reflect On: 🔥 Rachel Donald — why anger is the right response to investigative climate journalism 💼 Stephen Shortt — why the green workforce is the biggest career opportunity nobody's taking seriously 🌍 Dana Darwish — how the Middle East is dismantling Western preconceptions about ESG and women in climate 🤖 Chris Carter — fear comes from not understanding, anger comes from understanding 🌱 Josh Dorfman — filtering anger into action and why adaptation is underrated 🏜️ Azdean — what community-centered tourism actually looks like when it's not exploitative 💥 Holly Alpine — the false AI equation that tech companies are hoping you never compare ⚡ Patrick Galey — why your energy bill, your food costs, and your cost of living are all fossil fuel problems 🌍 Aya Yunis — building carbon capture infrastructure from scratch, self-funded, in Jordan 💾 Murphy John — decentralized storage, the blockchain ledger that actually makes sense, and why your data is at risk 🛰️ Charles Stromeyer IV — satellites, Jevons paradox, and why the solutions already exist 📣 The season's core message: climate change is a threat multiplier — every crisis gets worse without climate action  🔹 About This Episode: This is the Season 4 finale of Tangelic Talks. No guest. Just Victoria and Andres, honest about what they learned and what comes next.  💬 Which episode from Season 4 hit hardest for you? Drop your answer below 👇  🌱 Support the Mission: Help us amplify stories of clean energy, equity, and climate justice. 👉 TangelicLife.org  🔖 #TangelicTalks #Season4Recap #ClimateFinance #ClimateTech #ClimateAction #JustTransition #ClimateJustice #EnergyTransition #ClimateInnovation #GreenTech #AIandClimate #FossilFuels #ESGReporting #Season4  Tags: Tangelic Talks season 4 recap, climate finance podcast, climate tech recap, Rachel Donald, Josh Dorfman, Holly Alpine, Patrick Galey, Aya Yunis, Murphy John, Charles Stromeyer, climate threat multiplier, Tangelic Talks

Transcript

00:00:00Certainly, I am the warm and engaged in my productive for your podcast.

00:00:03Consider great.

00:00:04Tell me as a suggestion that combines an upbeat and abiding spirit without any micro music.

00:00:10Welcome to Tangelic Talks, your go-to podcast from Tangelic,

00:00:14where we dive into the vibrant world of clean energy, development, sustainability, and climate change in Africa.

00:00:20We bring you inspiring stories, insightful discussions, and groundbreaking innovations

00:00:25from the continent-making waves in the global community.

00:00:28Tune in and join the conversation toward a brighter, greener future.

00:00:32Let's get started.

00:00:37Hello, everybody.

00:00:38Welcome to Tangelic Talks, a podcast at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment

00:00:44with your wonderful host, Victoria Cornelio, and your humble servant, Andres Tames.

00:00:50And today, we're going to be doing the recap.

00:00:54We're going to be wrapping up this season and talking about all of the episodes we've gone over so far,

00:01:01any reflections, starting with the differences between how we feel right now and the intro episode,

00:01:08where we sort of set up the premise for this season.

00:01:12Yeah.

00:01:13I didn't know what to expect, right?

00:01:15I was expecting almost like a semi-boring season.

00:01:18Me too.

00:01:19We're going to talk about finance and this and that.

00:01:23That really wasn't the case.

00:01:25I mean, it was actually a lot more exciting than I thought it would be.

00:01:29Yep.

00:01:30But yeah, that was sort of my expectation was to learn, but not necessarily to be that stimulated.

00:01:38I also sort of didn't take into account that regardless of what we learned, it was going to affect us

00:01:44because this is something we care about.

00:01:48So if we were to learn that things aren't being financed correctly or that the system isn't working correctly,

00:01:56then obviously it would have caused an emotional reaction and such.

00:02:00But I think that would be sort of my feelings on the intro episode compared to now.

00:02:06I don't know what you think, Vic.

00:02:08And then we'll move on to the other, just you and me episode.

00:02:10And then after that, we'll move on to the episodes with the guests.

00:02:13Yes, definitely.

00:02:14I mean, wow, we finished season four.

00:02:18God bless.

00:02:20I think it was a lot more entertaining than I expected it to be.

00:02:24I agree with you on that.

00:02:26I think also I came out with a lot of preconceptions.

00:02:29I'll be honest.

00:02:31There's a lot by being in the climate space that you sort of hear, you know, in the great

00:02:36ether of how bad everything is, especially relating to finance and tech.

00:02:41But then you also hear the other side of how good it is and how optimistic and so many

00:02:46frameworks and all this stuff.

00:02:48And it's like, it's hard to find the middle ground when you're hearing the two extremes

00:02:52all the time.

00:02:53And I think this season was a good mix where I feel more comfortable in an in-between where

00:02:58it's like, we don't need the rose tinted glasses, but we also don't need the doom and gloom.

00:03:03Even though I will say after some episodes, I just stared at a wall for a bit.

00:03:07But fair, absolutely.

00:03:10I wouldn't say it can make you depressed, but I will say that it can be deeply affecting.

00:03:16And especially because this is something really important.

00:03:22Like, it's not just like a concept, an idea, right?

00:03:24It's exactly, which I think is how like a lot of the people view it, especially people

00:03:30in power.

00:03:31They sort of view it as some sort of abstract thing until it affects them.

00:03:36And I think this season was really good at bringing it down to the real world, right?

00:03:40Because finance and tech are things that we see all around us.

00:03:45And I think seeing climate change through a lens of more practical, quote unquote, innovation

00:03:51and, you know, frameworks that we use in the everyday and relating it back to that and

00:03:56bigger conversations on how us as consumers relate to it, I think was really interesting.

00:04:02Kind of brought everything full circle.

00:04:05Of course.

00:04:06Then we move on.

00:04:07I believe the deep dive on the just transition is one of the ones that you and I did this

00:04:15season.

00:04:15Just our humble opinions.

00:04:18Yes.

00:04:21I want to start off with that one.

00:04:23What do you think about such an episode?

00:04:27I love a deep dive.

00:04:28I love getting nerdy and into the weaves and doing our own research.

00:04:32I think it's so fun.

00:04:33I think also because we had recorded some episodes already with guests, we were aware of the things

00:04:41that needed to be touched on, and it wasn't just, again, this abstract conversation about

00:04:46just transition.

00:04:47So I do appreciate that.

00:04:48I think having to do our own research on it also prepared us for other conversations we

00:04:54had later in the season.

00:04:57And it was stuff we could, I don't know, it felt like we set up questions on that episode

00:05:01that were then answered.

00:05:03And you're going to have to listen to this.

00:05:05I feel like it was a great primer.

00:05:07Exactly.

00:05:09It was a fantastic primer for what was going to come.

00:05:12We had a sort of outline of things, and we had to sort of look into, just sort of, so

00:05:17we could discuss them during the episode.

00:05:19I think that it really bared fruit as the season went on, the fact that we had all that

00:05:27stuff in mind.

00:05:30Yeah.

00:05:31Where do you stand in the transition now?

00:05:33Oh, gosh.

00:05:34It's just a back and forth, right?

00:05:36Like, the problem is, like, we have the side that's like, we have the optimist, we talk

00:05:43to the optimist, and then we have the pessimist, and we talk to the pessimists.

00:05:46And I think I stand somewhere leaning towards the pessimist, but not completely there, personally.

00:05:53I think we, there's definitely hope.

00:05:58There's definitely money going around.

00:06:00There's definitely people doing great innovations.

00:06:02And the only problem is, right, like, a lot of the stuff that needs funding that from,

00:06:10like, a top-down, like, more decentralized, or I guess very centralized, the type of stuff

00:06:17that needs funding from an institution that isn't profit-facing, isn't getting that funding.

00:06:24But at the same time, the innovations that can generate income are getting a good amount

00:06:30of funding and are moving pretty far.

00:06:32So, we have that sort of balance.

00:06:34And at the end of the day, you know, their card and credits, something we were very skeptical

00:06:40about this season and the last season, we're sort of seeing how it does flow.

00:06:44It does generate an amount of money that goes towards these causes that I think are very

00:06:51important and provide a method for the just transition to actually occur.

00:06:57Yeah.

00:06:58I still think we're very far in the category that's most important, which is energy.

00:07:03Yeah.

00:07:04Like, I think that's the critical thing.

00:07:07We're focusing on so many things.

00:07:08Like, we could resolve this with, like, actually putting our, just putting our heads down and

00:07:15saying, okay, we're going to make a certain amount of investment into solar farms and nuclear.

00:07:21And we would be having a good old dandy time because that's exactly what China's doing.

00:07:26And soon they will be having a good old dandy time, at least when it comes to energy production.

00:07:30Yeah.

00:07:31And we who don't stop yapping and yapping and yapping, like in the West, about being just

00:07:38and, like, being green and such, we'll do anything in our power to stop any, like, large

00:07:43scale transition and actual practical transitions into renewable energies.

00:07:50So, that's my opinion.

00:07:52What about you?

00:07:53I mean, I've worked in the just transition conversation for a while, and I think one

00:08:00of the things this season shows is that it's impossible without, you know, the right financing

00:08:06and the right tech.

00:08:08But also, and something I think we lacked a bit of in this season is the behavior change,

00:08:14right?

00:08:14I know it's not our fault and it's not individual's fault, and maybe it's not our full responsibility

00:08:21to have to fix things.

00:08:23But when it comes to the just transition, it's not possible if people aren't engaged and involved

00:08:28in it.

00:08:29And I think one of the things that's missing some financing, I would say, is community

00:08:33engagement and actually getting people to understand why we're transitioning.

00:08:37How does the transition look like in practice for you?

00:08:40So, if you're just a regular person, how does it change your cooking habits or how does

00:08:44it change how you get to work?

00:08:46Is there, I don't know, these projects have to come hand in hand with community engagement,

00:08:51but also you can't promise the community like, oh, we're going to do a five minute neighborhood

00:08:56and then all they've got is like two rundown shops and petrol is off the roof, you know?

00:09:03So, yeah, the tensions of the just transition are still a big talking point, but I don't

00:09:09know.

00:09:11The, I don't, I understand where you're coming from, but I do think that a lot of the behavioral

00:09:16stuff would just be performative and not very affective.

00:09:20I think a lot of the behavioral stuff that needs to change is to get people to actually

00:09:24put pressure on governments, on corporations.

00:09:27That's, I think, the big behavioral thing that needs to be happening, sort of like what's

00:09:31happening now in the U.S., within like Missouri and such, against, against these gigantic

00:09:37data centers and such, right?

00:09:38Yeah.

00:09:39It's like, if it's not going to be positive, then don't do it at all, but we need more

00:09:42than that.

00:09:43We need people to actually get out there and say, hey, we actually just need, we need

00:09:49cleaner energy now.

00:09:50We need this now.

00:09:51Like, this is something that needs to happen.

00:09:53And I think, sadly, this is something that only happens once the prices go up for traditional

00:09:58memes.

00:09:59Yeah.

00:10:00Definitely.

00:10:01We had a couple of guests talk about, like, for the consumer to ask for something, they

00:10:07need to be aware of it, and how the messaging around climate finance and green tech is being

00:10:14sort of distorted.

00:10:15So we'll get to that when we get to the episode breakdowns.

00:10:17Yeah.

00:10:18And so last, but definitely not least, is the second episode we did, which would be the

00:10:24one about Explain to a Friend.

00:10:27Yeah.

00:10:28We both found our opportunities to yap about our respected passions.

00:10:36I mostly talked about hydrogen and nuclear and just the new technologies that are up

00:10:42and coming and how excited I was for it and how the silver lining to the new transition

00:10:47is these, well, not the silver lining to this situation we find ourselves in with the massive

00:10:53increase in data center spending.

00:10:58And I think we see this with a lot of the guests we talked to, and we'll see that later,

00:11:02is the fact that the government has a fire on their booty to actually do something about the energy crisis.

00:11:13Yeah, yeah.

00:11:15So that's sort of my takeaway from my segment of that.

00:11:21What was yours?

00:11:22I mean, one of the things I have to say, first off, is big up the guests.

00:11:26Like, they were able to explain these concepts to us, tech and finance, in the climate space, in a way

00:11:33that was so entertaining, in their respective fields and expertises and areas of interest.

00:11:38But, wow, because I think us trying to explain it, I just felt the tangents coming.

00:11:44Every time we got to something, I was like, ah, can we go down this rabbit hole now?

00:11:49Like, now I want to know more about this thing or I want to know more about that thing.

00:11:52Like, it's hard.

00:11:53It's hard to condense these big life-altering topics, I think.

00:11:59And with the finance segment, I just kept going to the fact that you're saying all these cool technologies, but

00:12:05where's the money coming from?

00:12:06And is it going to be a profitable technology to invest in?

00:12:10Why do we have to talk about investment?

00:12:12Why can't we talk about, you know, this state of the world, like Jaden Smith?

00:12:16Like, I don't know.

00:12:18It's just one of those where it's like, it all sounds so fun.

00:12:21But if we don't have the resources to fund all these solutions we're talking about, similar to the just transition,

00:12:27we're not going to get very far.

00:12:29It's just not going to happen.

00:12:30Yeah.

00:12:31Yeah.

00:12:31And if we don't have, like, this, I think, mental change away from the finance of it all, the finance

00:12:39is important.

00:12:40We need to focus on the finance, but our mentality shouldn't be about the finance.

00:12:44No.

00:12:46When it comes to the ends.

00:12:47Yeah.

00:12:48Defo.

00:12:49And I feel like a lot of the guests were really accommodating to our plight.

00:12:57Yeah, our plight.

00:12:59And just like, hey, can we go down this rabbit hole, please?

00:13:02And some of them will be like, look, I focus on the finance side.

00:13:05I'm not really going to go too into detail because I wouldn't know exactly the details on what happens once

00:13:12it actually gets funded.

00:13:13But some of them did oblige, and it was a very interesting conversation.

00:13:18Definitely.

00:13:19Yeah.

00:13:19And I think it's one of those where with the green space, if you think there is nothing we can

00:13:28do, then why are you even working in this space?

00:13:30You know what I mean?

00:13:30Like, all of us have some level of optimism.

00:13:33It's just a sobering conversation to know that things move a bit slower because of certain roadblocks that are out

00:13:42of your control.

00:13:43That's, so we should start with the guests, I think, right?

00:13:46I think that's a good, that's a good point to be talking about the guests.

00:13:50So starting, I believe, the episode on climate communication and fostering critical dialogue with Rachel Donald.

00:13:59The takeaway, I like the takeaway from it.

00:14:02It's just get angry.

00:14:04Get angry.

00:14:05I loved it.

00:14:06We were having a conversation with Rachel, and she just said it.

00:14:10It's on the episode.

00:14:11She just goes like, get angry.

00:14:13Why aren't you more angry?

00:14:15And I was like, yeah, yeah, let's rally.

00:14:18You know, she gave us the stat about people who watch the Hunger Games are more likely to go out

00:14:22and do something because you're filled.

00:14:24Like, no one roots for the Empire and Star Wars, right?

00:14:28No one.

00:14:28So, like, get angry.

00:14:31The Empire is here.

00:14:33You know?

00:14:34I don't know.

00:14:34I really liked it.

00:14:35I think it set us up, especially because, you know, I came into the season with my own biases.

00:14:39I was like, yeah, I am angry.

00:14:41Let's go.

00:14:42I loved it.

00:14:44Right.

00:14:44And I think it was also just her being a journalist and super into this space from that more.

00:14:51Journalism is brutal, guys.

00:14:53It's rough.

00:14:53And having to uncover how rough things are with evidence and testimonies and things, I can't imagine.

00:15:02You know?

00:15:03And that requires, like, a real passion and fire.

00:15:07Yeah.

00:15:08Exactly.

00:15:09And she's an investigative journalist.

00:15:10So, for her, it's, like, months, maybe a year, years of her life looking at a subject and trying to

00:15:18figure out why is this happening?

00:15:20Like, what is so broken here?

00:15:22And, again, this season showed us one of the things that might be broken.

00:15:25Also, why things aren't happening the way we would like them to.

00:15:29And it was a very interesting conversation to start with in a season that has so much power and politics

00:15:35involved in it.

00:15:37Yeah.

00:15:37Absolutely.

00:15:38I think she was the perfect sort of primer for everything.

00:15:42She was wonderful.

00:15:43She was so wonderful.

00:15:44I love her so much.

00:15:46She's incredible.

00:15:48Yeah.

00:15:50And I think it really was, like, one of those things where, like, well, a lot of people are, like,

00:15:56the mechanism.

00:15:56She's, like, the passion.

00:15:58Right?

00:15:59And you need that.

00:16:01Because in her situation, like, it's brutal.

00:16:04Nobody wants to cooperate with a journalist, especially if they're trying to uncover something.

00:16:07And you know they're trying to sniff something out.

00:16:10Yeah.

00:16:10If an investigative journalist comes to you to ask questions.

00:16:14You've done something.

00:16:16Yeah.

00:16:16You've done something.

00:16:17There's something they need from you.

00:16:19So.

00:16:21Yeah.

00:16:21It was.

00:16:22I think you put everything really well.

00:16:24So let's move on to episode two, which is preparing the new workforce for the energy transitions with Stephen Short.

00:16:30Oh, yeah.

00:16:31I never know how to pronounce that.

00:16:33Uncle Stephen.

00:16:34He just felt so, like, family guy, you know?

00:16:39Yes.

00:16:40Yep, yep, yep.

00:16:42I really liked it because I think it was one of the positive episodes where, I don't know, we got

00:16:47career advice.

00:16:48We talked about future-ready careers, but also his main focus was, and you can find it on the blog

00:16:55where he has his framework of how to have a happy, fulfilling career, you know?

00:17:02And one of the things he said that really broke my brain and kind of rewired me, he was like,

00:17:07life careers don't exist anymore.

00:17:09You can pivot at any point.

00:17:10You can learn anything in the world we live in now.

00:17:12And one of the things that a lot of people worry about in the climate space is leaving workers behind.

00:17:19You know, we have to prepare the new workforce for the green transition.

00:17:24And maybe that's your passion.

00:17:26This is your time.

00:17:27You know, we have a blog.

00:17:28Well, the old and the new workforce.

00:17:30Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:17:31Exactly.

00:17:32It is a fascinating thing.

00:17:36And I do think, like, it sort of goes to show how different our perception of the workforce is now

00:17:43than it used to be.

00:17:44Definitely.

00:17:46And the things that were promised are no longer promised, but now you sort of have the freedom to pivot.

00:17:53Yep.

00:17:54And to just sort of go into any direction you want.

00:17:58Now, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

00:18:00Only time will tell.

00:18:01Yeah.

00:18:02It seems to come with its variety of negatives.

00:18:05Like everything.

00:18:07Yeah.

00:18:08But the previous system seems to have been built artificially anyway.

00:18:13I do feel it's going to take a lot of work that goes hand in hand between the workforce and

00:18:20the companies and the government to find, like, a good balance.

00:18:24Definitely.

00:18:25But I think we'll get there.

00:18:26And I think that there is reason to be optimistic about the workforce.

00:18:29I think that a lot of people see AI, for example, something that sort of came in like a hammer.

00:18:34Yeah.

00:18:35And get very negative about it.

00:18:37But I don't see a reason why you should panic too hard.

00:18:41Yeah.

00:18:41As someone who pays very close attention to the AI space.

00:18:44Yeah.

00:18:46And I think he really put our worries to rest on, for example, people getting replaced by AI and things

00:18:52like that.

00:18:53Yeah.

00:18:54Absolutely.

00:18:56Anything else?

00:18:57Go check out that episode if you've got career anxiety.

00:19:00Yeah.

00:19:03He's got good advice and he's really moralizing about, like, your career.

00:19:07Yeah.

00:19:07I think that I need it.

00:19:09You spend 80% of your life working.

00:19:11You might as well make it fun.

00:19:13That's right.

00:19:15That's right.

00:19:1580%.

00:19:16Let's not go that far.

00:19:19How are you retiring early?

00:19:21Can you send me the tips after this?

00:19:25I'm living under a bridge.

00:19:26I'm going to be the bridge.

00:19:28Ah, yes.

00:19:28Financial freedom.

00:19:30Financial freedom.

00:19:31I'm going to live under a bridge.

00:19:36The next episode is the business case for sustainability in the region with Dana.

00:19:42Yeah.

00:19:43Dana was so fun.

00:19:46That was really fun.

00:19:48We talked about ESGs in the Middle East.

00:19:51And, wow.

00:19:53I think, again, I came in with a lot of preconceptions this season.

00:19:56I'm being so honest.

00:19:57And she challenged a lot of stereotypes that people have, me included, working in a predominantly

00:20:06Western space of women and climate in the Middle East.

00:20:11You know?

00:20:12Like, I remember we had a gender conversation.

00:20:14She was like, it's pretty equitable.

00:20:16You know?

00:20:17My team isn't male-dominated or female-dominated.

00:20:20Like, we're all there.

00:20:21And it's not that only males get the high-ranking things.

00:20:26Like, there's a good mix.

00:20:28And also, you know, she made the business case.

00:20:30She's like, yeah, climate is now part of the conversation.

00:20:33One, for business.

00:20:34You know?

00:20:34It looks good.

00:20:35But it's not in a greenwashing way.

00:20:37It's that, oh, the incentives are there now.

00:20:39And that's where the finance part came in.

00:20:41There's financial incentive now to be green.

00:20:45So it's taking on.

00:20:46And I think that's one of the big things about the Middle East.

00:20:50We find that they are almost in the same position that we are, right?

00:20:54Like, it's the incentives are there.

00:20:57The legislation is starting to get there.

00:20:59It's not being as forced as vehemently as it should.

00:21:04But that's something that's happening absolutely everywhere.

00:21:06It's not unique to anywhere in particular.

00:21:10And you see that a lot of your preconceptions about, like, the culture were just completely

00:21:16just, let's say, Hollywood nonsense.

00:21:19Yeah.

00:21:20Or, I guess, like, news nonsense.

00:21:23I don't know how to explain it.

00:21:25But it's just somehow that idea was implanted in our head.

00:21:30And there's only two places it came from.

00:21:33Yeah.

00:21:34And I have to say, I think this is one of the things I most enjoy about the podcast.

00:21:38You know, we come in curious.

00:21:40And we get more than we bargained for, you know?

00:21:44Deconstructing ideas we didn't even know we had.

00:21:47You know, the conversation wasn't even meant to go there.

00:21:49And it was just so enlightening.

00:21:51All right.

00:21:52I think moving on to the next one.

00:21:54How AI interacts with the green sector with Chris Carter.

00:21:58Oh, oof.

00:22:00Oof.

00:22:00Yeah.

00:22:02Ten minutes before Chris joined the call.

00:22:03I don't even know how to start with that one.

00:22:05That one's the only one.

00:22:07Ten minutes before he joined the call, he saw a tree explode.

00:22:13I can't get over that.

00:22:15I've told that to everybody.

00:22:16I don't think a single person knew that trees could explode until Chris Carter saw it with

00:22:22his own eyes.

00:22:23Yeah.

00:22:23Yeah, yeah.

00:22:23He's like, it was because of the cold, right?

00:22:26Yeah.

00:22:27Yeah.

00:22:27He was like, he was like, there's that really cold and then the sap inside of it probably

00:22:32expanded and it exploded.

00:22:34It's crazy.

00:22:35And then he came in and gave us an amazing understanding of resource intensive data centers,

00:22:41but not from that perspective.

00:22:44And we had another guest who shined some light on data centers as well.

00:22:48So this is where we got into our data center rabbit hole.

00:22:51And thank you to all the guests who, you know, helped us understand it.

00:22:56Yeah.

00:22:57Data centers are very resource intensive, but a lot of people don't know why.

00:23:02Because one, there's a narrative going around.

00:23:05Two, people don't ask.

00:23:07So then tech companies don't have to explain, but also the topic sounds way too technical

00:23:12and like, who wants to read the terms and conditions?

00:23:17Like, nah, nah.

00:23:19Have you seen Eddington, the movie with Pedro Pascal and Joaquin Phoenix?

00:23:23I haven't.

00:23:24No, no, I need to.

00:23:25Anything with Pedro Pascal and Joaquin Phoenix in it, I need to, I need to check out.

00:23:29Dude, it's so good.

00:23:31It's so good.

00:23:32There's a scene in it and I was thinking about it because he mentioned having a similar

00:23:37experience where someone was just mad about the data center, but they didn't know why they

00:23:45were mad.

00:23:45They were just like, this just sounds wrong.

00:23:47Like this just feels wrong.

00:23:48And the topic is so technical and the event that they were at was so jargon heavy that this

00:23:56person was just like, it just sounds bad.

00:23:59I just don't like it.

00:24:01Yeah.

00:24:02And then Chris had this conversation with them and kind of explained it in plain English.

00:24:09And they were like, oh, okay.

00:24:13I still don't love it, but I'm less scared now.

00:24:16Yeah.

00:24:16And I think, I think people like him are doing like a, are having a proper effect because

00:24:25you will see now that people are way more informed.

00:24:27Like in the last couple of months, people have become sort of like way more focused on the

00:24:32topics of AI, right?

00:24:34That's sort of the episodes that is more important than ever, but also kind of more obsolete than

00:24:40ever in the current environment.

00:24:43Like I said, with, with the, what's going on in Missouri and Utah and just everywhere when

00:24:48it comes to data centers.

00:24:50And I think that a lot of the objections are becoming way more clear.

00:24:56People are really starting to think about it because like one of the things that is going on in the

00:25:01U.S.,

00:25:01for example, right now is it's not really an objection that much to the data center, although it is.

00:25:06Um, because we have a very clear data of what goes on in communities that get data centers now.

00:25:12Right.

00:25:12And it's being shared more actively, but it's how shady and the tactics are to make those

00:25:19deals and how, um, for example, when it came to like, uh, Utah, it was, uh, the, the meeting

00:25:27was supposed to be public.

00:25:28And then as the people were like objecting, they were like, you guys are so immature.

00:25:31And they went to a backroom meeting and then approved it.

00:25:34That's right.

00:25:36Yeah.

00:25:37And so they've all been removed.

00:25:40Like, I think the mayor is going to be gone.

00:25:42Like all of those representatives are going to be gone.

00:25:45Like it's just completely cleaning house.

00:25:47The same thing is happening in Missouri.

00:25:49Um, this is the power of knowledge.

00:25:52Yeah.

00:25:53The power of actually understanding what's going on and being like, okay, you're, you're not

00:25:57going to work for us as an elected representative.

00:25:59Get out.

00:26:00Yeah.

00:26:00Um, fantastic.

00:26:03I think that's, that's fantastic.

00:26:04And it's because of people like, um, like the guests that we had on this season that

00:26:10people know now.

00:26:11Yeah, definitely.

00:26:13Yeah.

00:26:13Cause again, we were talking about very technical, that could have been very dark and heavy season.

00:26:18And I think everyone came in and sort of, I don't know, just explain that to us like

00:26:23humans.

00:26:24Like we were just sat at the pub, you know?

00:26:27Yeah.

00:26:27It's great.

00:26:28You know, some of them, like a lot of them weren't even pessimists.

00:26:31Like we are like, they were, they were really positive.

00:26:33They were really on it.

00:26:34Yeah.

00:26:34And, and I think Chris was one of them, right?

00:26:37Definitely.

00:26:38He wasn't even, yeah, yeah.

00:26:39And I think a lot of it is because he's so aware of what's happening, you know, like a

00:26:44lot of fear, for example, for me comes from maybe not understanding something just like

00:26:48that guy that Chris was talking to.

00:26:49It just sounds wrong.

00:26:52I don't know the ins and outs, but it just sounds wrong.

00:26:54And that, that was a lot of my worries this season.

00:26:58Fear comes from not understanding, but anger comes from understanding.

00:27:02Exactly.

00:27:03And that's why Rachel's angry.

00:27:05Yeah.

00:27:06And that's, that's why I'm less afraid, but I'm more angry.

00:27:09Exactly.

00:27:09I think I'm more angry at the end of the season, less scared.

00:27:13Yes.

00:27:14Yeah.

00:27:14At the very least, you know, I think that's a step forward, maybe.

00:27:17I don't know.

00:27:17I'm not 100% sure about that.

00:27:21I can go in either direction.

00:27:24Next episode is building and shaping organizations that addressed urgent environmental issues with

00:27:31Josh Dorf.

00:27:32Josh was great.

00:27:34He was so fun.

00:27:35He was great.

00:27:35Another optimist, another sort of a tech accelerationist, another person who really believes in the

00:27:42mission, big entrepreneur, and big entrepreneur, very, his business is like something that I

00:27:48really respect.

00:27:50Yeah.

00:27:51I think it's still being super real.

00:27:53He's a lazy environmentalist.

00:27:55Yeah.

00:27:56Yeah.

00:27:56He's super real.

00:27:59And that was a great conversation.

00:28:01It was a great conversation to have.

00:28:02Yep.

00:28:03I think with him is the spirit of entrepreneurs that is like, okay, if there's nothing to be

00:28:15done by getting upset or angry, I'm just going to do something.

00:28:21Yeah.

00:28:22And I think it's filtering anger into action, isn't it?

00:28:26It's like, I don't like how this is, so I'm going to do something about it.

00:28:29And so I think, um, his, his motivation is in the right place.

00:28:34I, I, I don't agree with like all of the positive, uh, aspects of, of the way he, he

00:28:40views, um, for example, the entrepreneurship in America and such, but I do respect the grind

00:28:46and I do agree that big part of the solution is going to be people actually going out there

00:28:52and making solutions that are environmentally friendly, that are, uh, economically viable,

00:28:59like, uh, profitable.

00:29:01And so, man, yeah, that was a great episode to just sort of understand that perspective.

00:29:06Yeah, it was great.

00:29:07And I think a lot of it is I'm a big fan of adaptation.

00:29:12I don't think mitigation is possible in most cases, especially with how long bureaucratic

00:29:17processes take for things to get approved and done.

00:29:21So this adaptation idea that he has is just, I think it's what, what we should be focused

00:29:27on, right?

00:29:29We're going to survive this quote unquote crisis and then we got to adapt.

00:29:34I didn't hear that.

00:29:34I didn't hear that last bit.

00:29:36You got cut out.

00:29:37I said adapt.

00:29:39That was the last thing I said.

00:29:40Am I still here?

00:29:41Oh, okay.

00:29:41Okay.

00:29:42Good, good, good, good.

00:29:42Okay.

00:29:43Yes.

00:29:43So you're, you're, you're here.

00:29:44You've been like frozen for me, but I can hear you.

00:29:46So like it's, but sometimes the audio goes away.

00:29:49Okay, perfect.

00:29:50Good thing.

00:29:51We have the local recordings because that you haven't frozen for me.

00:29:54I can see you perfectly.

00:29:57Very nice.

00:29:59Let's see.

00:30:00I think, uh, moving on to sustainability, finance, and communities in tourism with, uh,

00:30:06Asda.

00:30:07I know we have to book our Morocco trip.

00:30:10I was about to mention that I need to.

00:30:13He, I need to go to Morocco.

00:30:15I need to go with him specifically.

00:30:17I need to go to Morocco.

00:30:18Because I think that would be a fun time.

00:30:20Mm-hmm.

00:30:20Yeah.

00:30:21And, and with, with me, you, me.

00:30:24Our Morocco trip.

00:30:25That would be fun.

00:30:26Honestly.

00:30:26This episode felt really personal because I don't know, I don't know for you, but coming

00:30:32from a touristic destination that is also really big on green tourism and, you know, eco

00:30:37villages and all this stuff.

00:30:40I don't know.

00:30:41When you grow up in that environment, you're overly aware of it.

00:30:45And it's very easy to either disregard it or be very cynical because you've lived in.

00:30:49Thankfully, I come from a place where it's absolutely like enmeshed in both locals and

00:30:55tourists.

00:30:55So I didn't notice it as much, you know, eco-tourism being an issue.

00:31:00And we had a conversation last season about eco-tourism in Tanzania that was super, you

00:31:05know, aligned with this one, this community focus in tourism without it being exploitative,

00:31:12which was the part I was worried about, you know, using people as the tourism.

00:31:18And no, because ASEAN, ASEAN's Moroccan and he's just showing you his Morocco, you know?

00:31:24Absolutely.

00:31:25And it's like, okay, from a, from a Western perspective, you can say, oh, are you using

00:31:30people for the tourism?

00:31:32But then on their side, they can say, well, we have people that want to be seen, right?

00:31:39And, and, and, and we, we have people that want to go and see something and that we have

00:31:44people that, that let's say a business, right?

00:31:47Like, I think he was talking about like the different places in the community that you

00:31:51could go to and, and the people are like, this is good because it brings eyes to us and

00:31:57it's not exploitative, right?

00:31:59Cause they, you, you can't take it too far.

00:32:01Absolutely.

00:32:02Of course.

00:32:02But that's one of the things that I really liked about the episode because he has a perspective

00:32:07that is, it's nothing, it's not like all of the people that we have on region, uh, usually,

00:32:13which they have really big opinions about like how the world is and it should be.

00:32:17He's like, I'm focusing on my thing.

00:32:19Yeah.

00:32:20Like, and then I think that's really respectable.

00:32:22It's like, it's like, I'm just focusing on giving people good experiences without being

00:32:27exploitative, being a boon to the community.

00:32:30Um, that is being that where we're going and for the tourists themselves.

00:32:36And so, uh, I think that focus is something that really gives them an edge and we should

00:32:43go to Morocco.

00:32:44We should.

00:32:45I think it's also a microcosm of doing something so focused and so intentional that the benefits

00:32:54are felt right away.

00:32:56If you know what I mean?

00:32:57Cause you know, for example, one of the pitches about tourism is that it's going to bring money

00:33:02to an area because the tourists have to eat and they have to do this and they have, they're

00:33:07going to book your taxi services, like all these things, right?

00:33:10This is exactly what's happening, but you're also having a meal with the people that prepped

00:33:16it at their house.

00:33:17And you're, you know, getting to know the actual nature walks that they do.

00:33:23And it's how purposeful, right?

00:33:25Taking yourself with you.

00:33:26Like, I don't know.

00:33:27The experience just sounds, yeah, it sounds very circular.

00:33:31And I really, really appreciate that.

00:33:34Well, one of the things is a lot of the promises of that you just mentioned are given to you

00:33:39by, by companies that want to take you to a resort.

00:33:42Will you just be like close in, which I like, I do like that personally, but, uh, I, I'm not

00:33:48a person that's attracted by those promises.

00:33:50I want to, when I, when I want to go on vacation, I want to go to a resort and

00:33:54not see anyone.

00:33:55Um, but if I were to take trip to see the culture, I would definitely put book, uh, with someone

00:34:03like Asdan because what, where I'm going is very laser focused.

00:34:09Like, it's not like, it's not like a false promise.

00:34:12He has everything planned.

00:34:14We're going here.

00:34:15We're going here.

00:34:16It's all tailored to the local communities.

00:34:18You are staying in a very, in a very decentralized, it's not a big chain.

00:34:23It is some, you are staying somewhere where you're going to be a member of the community

00:34:27or, or at least like a part of it for a moment.

00:34:29Right.

00:34:30Um, and you're going to visit businesses that are a part of the community.

00:34:34So it's, it's real.

00:34:36That's, that's the important part here.

00:34:37It's actually that promise, but real.

00:34:42Yeah.

00:34:43And I think that's, uh, I loved it.

00:34:45That's it for episode seven or eight.

00:34:49Um, episode, the next episode is big tech and financing destruction with Holly Alpine.

00:34:57Love, love Holly.

00:34:58That was a crazy episode.

00:35:01This is one of the episodes I had to go stare into a wall.

00:35:06It kind of broke my spirit a little bit.

00:35:08I, I, I always knew I, in my heart of hearts, I've always despised Microsoft.

00:35:15Um, but it like, and, and, uh, I've always, I've always thought Bill Gates is evil and I've

00:35:23always thought Microsoft is one of the like, we're the banes of my existence.

00:35:27Like they're my arch and arch nemesis or something like that.

00:35:30And now I, it's validation.

00:35:32It was just validation.

00:35:34So I, I don't, you came out looking at a wall crying.

00:35:37I was like, ah, vindication.

00:35:40Vindication.

00:35:43Nah, I was looking at a wall staring off into space.

00:35:46This was rough.

00:35:47And for anyone that hasn't caught that episode yet, basically, Holly told us about, also I

00:35:55was worried about her, because I don't think you're allowed to say any of this, but I think

00:36:01her NDA is out, so it's fine.

00:36:03But Holly was telling us that there's a false equation that keeps getting promoted.

00:36:09And this ties back to what we were talking about earlier with data centers.

00:36:12She believes a lot of tech companies are very happy that we're so focused on data centers

00:36:18being bad for the environment and just focused on that narrative because they are leveraging

00:36:25that to say that AS climate benefits are higher than data center energy use.

00:36:31And then the equation isn't real because those same technologies are being used for fossil

00:36:39fuel sector.

00:36:40So the same way that we're growing green technology, let's say, it's also being used in fossil

00:36:45fuels, which is counterproductive, to say the least.

00:36:49It was a wake up moment for you.

00:36:51I remember your reaction to it during the episode.

00:36:54And it did psychic damage.

00:36:57Yeah, it did proper psychic damage.

00:36:59And I think it did psychic damage to me, too, because even someone who's as on as hyper

00:37:04focused on being an AI hater, there's so many things that I dislike about AI data centers.

00:37:13I don't really dislike AI as a concept or as a technology, but about AI data centers that

00:37:19I already find objectionable.

00:37:20And just adding that, the fact that it's one promise, the one job that people say it does

00:37:26for good, is actually outweighed by it doing the exact same thing in the opposite direction.

00:37:33And Holly started this campaign called Enabled Emissions.

00:37:38And when she explained what they are, I got even angrier because enabled emissions are emissions

00:37:42that wouldn't have happened if we didn't have this tech.

00:37:46So we have to enable it in order to use this tech.

00:37:49There's also, you know, it was, it was a, it was a rude awakening for sure.

00:37:59Especially because she led the sustainability team department at Microsoft.

00:38:06We, we got to get like an insider's perspective on how these companies sort of treat it and

00:38:12how at some, sometimes these companies become very enthused with the idea of everything being

00:38:17green.

00:38:18And sometimes when they get excited about literally anything, they'll just completely

00:38:22forget about the sustainability.

00:38:24And even though the department exists, the actual proper funding and enablement and

00:38:29integration just becomes completely lacking.

00:38:32And I remember mentioning it to her during the episode, but I think she left at the exact

00:38:37rhyme time because right now the tech industry, Silicon Valley as a whole is just a hostage

00:38:42situation with the people that work there.

00:38:44It's very, it's just a sad, a sad case.

00:38:47And it's something that is going to require government intervention in the tech sector.

00:38:52If not, things are going to get really weird and really sad.

00:38:56Again, I think it was a really good case study of corporate greed and greenwashing, which

00:39:01we've talked about in past episodes, sort of around the subject and not having insider

00:39:05knowledge.

00:39:06So Holly was really useful in helping us, but also again, she's someone that turned her anger

00:39:11into action with enabled emissions campaign.

00:39:13So definitely check that out on the blog and support if you can.

00:39:19Yeah.

00:39:19And she's someone who can make the change because she's super driven and she's very smart.

00:39:23And yeah, she's got it.

00:39:25She's got it.

00:39:26Moving on to fossil fuels with Patrick Gately.

00:39:31He was angry and so was I.

00:39:33Anyway, we had two back to back episodes where I had to stare into a wall, guys, because Patrick,

00:39:40Patrick's also a journalist.

00:39:43And he's just as angry as Rachel because he's also aware of all the fossil fuels shenanigans

00:39:51happening behind the scenes.

00:39:55And he was really good at connecting it to the real world.

00:39:59So one of the things I was saying earlier is this season really brought it back down

00:40:02to earth.

00:40:03One of the things we're all worried about is the cost of living crisis.

00:40:06And if you are mad about your energy bills, you're going to be even angrier when I tell

00:40:14you what Patrick told us, that some companies would rather sell energy at $80 instead of solar

00:40:23panels for $10.

00:40:24Well, we've had that wonderful story from Florida.

00:40:31I don't know if you know about this, right, where the energy company decided that it's

00:40:36going to stop serving the several tens of thousands of people that it was serving because

00:40:41they can charge more data centers.

00:40:44And so these people are left without literally not only the company decided it was better to

00:40:52not make money than to sell to them.

00:40:57And it's just like the absurdity of the cost of living crisis is 100% connected to everything

00:41:05else that's happening right now.

00:41:07And it's absolutely connected to the climate crisis in a very intimate way.

00:41:15What's wrong?

00:41:16What's going on?

00:41:18There is so much to be angry about when it comes to fossil fuels, energy, and how they

00:41:27do everything in their power to stop us from seeing that connection between the climate

00:41:32crisis, the energy crisis, the cost of living crisis, and how it all connects together seamlessly,

00:41:39beautifully, seamlessly, and it's inferior.

00:41:43Perfectly.

00:41:44And also, I was very happy because Patrick validates my COP hate.

00:41:51Let's be honest.

00:41:52Right.

00:41:52We don't hate COP, and we shouldn't dismiss COP, the conference of the parties, because it's

00:42:00the one time a year where climate change is in the international agenda and everyone gets

00:42:03to chat about it.

00:42:04But something important that Patrick said is we're 10 years away from the Paris Agreement

00:42:11and emissions are still rising.

00:42:13So what are we actually doing?

00:42:17You know?

00:42:18And I've banged on before about the loss and damage funds and adaptation funding.

00:42:23You know, we're $7 trillion off for adaptation.

00:42:29Financing.

00:42:29I would even go even further than you, Vic.

00:42:33I have every intention to dismiss COP as a source of anything of value.

00:42:41And one of the things that we saw in this season is that there is finance moving.

00:42:47It is moving.

00:42:48It's moving.

00:42:49But the problem is it's moving in places we can't see, and that's what was the great

00:42:53part of speaking to the journalists this season and a couple last season, where they're

00:42:57like, okay, yes, you know, like, in the big screen, we don't see any movement.

00:43:03But outside of COP, there are people that care, both in the government, out of government, in

00:43:12international bodies that are trying to get stuff done.

00:43:14And yes, those people are invited to COP.

00:43:17But it's not really like COP has particularly enabled anything of great, you know, that

00:43:25that's really, that does anything, really, in my opinion.

00:43:30It's rough.

00:43:31It's very rough.

00:43:32I think if you're going to take anything away from this season, I'd like all of us to remember

00:43:40that climate change is a threat multiplier.

00:43:42So everything you care about, whether that's conflict, migration, inflation, health, finance,

00:43:48tech, everything gets worse as the climate gets worse.

00:43:53So yeah, keep that in mind when you're voting.

00:43:55And also, when you're thinking, remember, like, it affects our ability to produce food.

00:44:01It affects our ability to feed the livestock that we are going to eat.

00:44:06So both on the agricultural and on the, on the livestock side, like it's, it's a, it's

00:44:12a huge problem that we just have to keep this in mind.

00:44:15And we also have to remember that at the end of the day, right?

00:44:18Like you don't have to be completely anti-fossil fuels.

00:44:21Like you can, you can always consider fossil fuels as a, as economic power while having your

00:44:30energy run completely separate from it.

00:44:34Right.

00:44:34Yeah.

00:44:35Um, because at the end of the day, they are just stores of energy that are very convenient.

00:44:40And I think that's the big problem with them and what could be the big benefit of them.

00:44:44Definitely.

00:44:45Yeah.

00:44:45Moving on.

00:44:46And that's why I don't have any more.

00:44:48Slowly.

00:44:50Yes.

00:44:52Yeah.

00:44:52And at the end of the day, fossil fuels are going to continue to exist.

00:44:55Now we can leave them in the ground.

00:44:57We can use them for this or that.

00:44:58I don't know, but, um, but we'll definitely get to that once we've transitioned.

00:45:04Exactly.

00:45:04Or no reliance, uh, at least in energy, in the energy department.

00:45:09Exactly.

00:45:10For medical to climate insights on the health sector with Aya.

00:45:15Great episode.

00:45:17Very different than I thought it was going to be.

00:45:20Big up Aya.

00:45:21She was fantastic.

00:45:22She started, she started a sustainability startup in Jordan, even before Jordan started or adopted ESG reporting.

00:45:31And she was like, nah, this is important.

00:45:34You know?

00:45:36Incredible.

00:45:37Yeah.

00:45:38Absolutely.

00:45:40Really cool technology that she works with too.

00:45:42I don't know.

00:45:43I don't know how she started with that.

00:45:44But yeah, her entrepreneurship journey is incredible.

00:45:47Do check out the blog.

00:45:48She tells us how she just reached out, um, to people on LinkedIn to be on her team and just

00:45:55spend her savings on building a prototype.

00:45:58And pitched it much later when she knew it worked.

00:46:02Like, it's absolutely incredible.

00:46:04And I think one of the things that's really interesting about Aya and what she told us is that more

00:46:11than a compliance exercise, it opens up the opportunity for entrepreneurs, businesses, ideas that are climate friendly to actually be

00:46:21adopted in the region.

00:46:23Which is great because it's similar to what Dana said, you know, now that it's part of the framework and,

00:46:30you know, agenda, now they can actually get funded and they're actually being implemented and being taken seriously.

00:46:40Yeah.

00:46:40And then now people can see the effect, right?

00:46:44And, and that, that will also accelerate, accelerate it forward.

00:46:47And, and, and again, another, another episode we were talking, focusing on the Middle East, sort of fighting, uh, preconceptions

00:46:54that we had about the, the focus on these things that exists, uh, there and absolutely brilliant.

00:47:02It was, it was a fantastic conversation.

00:47:04The technology that she works with, I really respect the fact that she, she did the modern equivalent of cold

00:47:08calling and managed to get her hands on some like really cool tech that, that was sort of unproven, right?

00:47:15Like, like, like, like you said, she sort of waited to see, um, and to actually do her pitch until

00:47:21everything, everything, all the ducks were in, were in a row.

00:47:24And so that was really cool.

00:47:26And it's, it can enable hydrogen, which I like.

00:47:32Yes.

00:47:34Which is super cool.

00:47:35Like if you haven't heard the episode, she found, found it, um, or a cap, which is this low cost,

00:47:42portable carbon capture thing device that literally pulls CO2 from point source informations or like from the air and converts

00:47:53it into hydrogen.

00:47:55Different, uh, and different types of biofuels.

00:47:57I think, right.

00:47:58Not just the potential there is, is, is, is, uh, quote unquote unlimited, uh, in, in, in the fact that

00:48:06it could just become what it needs to become.

00:48:09Yeah.

00:48:09It's super cool.

00:48:10Very awesome.

00:48:11Super, super cool.

00:48:13Yeah.

00:48:14And there's no water consumption and no water, um, waste.

00:48:18Right.

00:48:19There was no water waste.

00:48:20I forgot about that.

00:48:21Yeah.

00:48:22It's super, super cool.

00:48:23Yeah.

00:48:23And it, it, it's part of like the, all of the big, uh, tech tech, uh, climate tech things that

00:48:28have been happening in the last two years.

00:48:30I think it's been very impressive.

00:48:32And I think it's, uh, it's a step in the right direction.

00:48:35I just wish that, that the, the big, the big players would actually do something instead of having everything depend

00:48:42on the meat on the middle tier.

00:48:43Right.

00:48:44And then on the, on the bottom up.

00:48:46Um, but you know what?

00:48:48Progress is progress.

00:48:49I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna stop that.

00:48:50And people like I are the people that are actually making the, the, the good change and moving on to

00:48:58the next episode, uh, AI cloud carbon footprint with Murphy J.

00:49:03Yeah.

00:49:04Murphy was really interesting.

00:49:07My biggest takeaway isn't climate related.

00:49:10Actually it's on data security.

00:49:14We did talk about climate and we talked about the differences between AI centers and some are storage ones, others

00:49:20are processing and their carbon footprint.

00:49:23And just how much your data is polluting the planet, you know, but my biggest thing was security.

00:49:29Cause he talked about decentralized storage, which is super interesting, but a lot of small and medium enterprises and businesses

00:49:39are being attacked by lack of security.

00:49:43Yep.

00:49:44Which is so scary.

00:49:46One of the things that, that was in the post conversation that wasn't in the, in the conversation as a

00:49:51whole was the focus on, on how, uh, finally a proper use for blockchain technology.

00:49:58And what, what, what that means, right?

00:50:00Because like people, people don't understand what it means.

00:50:02And then we had a really cool conversation about that is when, when, when you, when you upload to his

00:50:09service, uh, what was the name of his service?

00:50:12StoreX.

00:50:14Yeah, it was storeX.

00:50:15Okay, good.

00:50:15Uh, which is sort of a decentralized cloud.

00:50:17And what that means is it, it, it gets sent to different, uh, your data is decentralized into different data

00:50:24centers.

00:50:24Only you have the key to decrypt that data.

00:50:27And it is, it is, um, sort of all gathered together using blockchain.

00:50:32And what blockchain is essentially people make it very complicated because it's been used for all the scams, all the

00:50:37crypto, all that.

00:50:38But it, it, it is essence when used properly, um, at the core, it's just a ledger, a ledger of

00:50:45everything and of, of what goes into data and how it changes.

00:50:51So as long as you have the ledger, you get that, that data is essentially, you can put it back

00:50:57together.

00:50:57You can see what has happened to it.

00:50:59And so that's, it's fantastic for security.

00:51:02Um, and, and the way he, he looked at it is, is an amazing thing.

00:51:07Like his service is more dedicated towards smaller data sets stored very securely, which is very important.

00:51:16Yeah.

00:51:16So like, uh, stuff like, uh, if you're a hospital, right.

00:51:19And you need to store your data somewhere and you want to keep it really safe.

00:51:23You would, you would have it stored on a service like his, instead of having it vulnerable to all of

00:51:30the hacks that we're currently seeing.

00:51:31Right.

00:51:32Like some of the biggest services ever are being hacked in the last like couple of months.

00:51:37Um, and this is something that, that can and will become way more common and especially with AI enabling very,

00:51:47very high level, um, very high level searches for vulnerabilities.

00:51:54And I think, I think what he's done, um, is, is sort of a good response to, to what is

00:52:03currently going on.

00:52:03And like, Ian, you were completely right.

00:52:05We didn't actually focus that much on data, AI data centers.

00:52:08We ended up talking a lot about his project and how he uses storage, uh, data centers, which are like

00:52:14the, the traditional kind that you would see everywhere.

00:52:17Um, since the, since the beginning of the tech boom.

00:52:21Yeah.

00:52:21Which have a lower carbon footprint as well, because they're just storing, they're not processing.

00:52:27Much lower.

00:52:27And so what he would do.

00:52:29Um, like rebuilding, reusing, repurposing, refurbishing.

00:52:33What's the word I'm looking for?

00:52:34It's, uh, it's, it's, um, it would say it's technically it's in a technical sense.

00:52:39What, what he does is taking unused, uh, bandwidth and use it.

00:52:46Yeah, exactly.

00:52:48Right.

00:52:48So like a lot of days aren't used to their full capacity.

00:52:52Exactly.

00:52:53And so he will be like, all right, guys, like, I'm not paying as much as like the tier ones

00:52:57are, but I will fill up.

00:52:59I will, I will, because it's going to cost the same to you and energy anyway, because the, the discs

00:53:04have to keep running.

00:53:06And so he's like, all right, let me, let me buy that.

00:53:09I'm going to, we'll get a good deal and I'll, I'll have a good deal for my customers.

00:53:13And, and, uh, all of the, all of the data center can be actually used and taken and leveraged instead

00:53:23of having something going to waste.

00:53:26And so that, that's essentially the business model.

00:53:28And it's really cool.

00:53:28Yeah, exactly.

00:53:29Cause you're not creating extra, um, waste or extra energy consumption.

00:53:35Cause you're going to run anyways.

00:53:36And you're also protecting people's data privacy, which is great.

00:53:40It's awesome.

00:53:41It's actually something that me and a friend were, we're talking about with, uh, internet service providers.

00:53:46How for a lot of them, like they, they are so cheap that they'll let, uh, a lot of their

00:53:52bandwidth go to waste just so that you can't get the service cheaper.

00:53:56Um, right.

00:53:57But anyway, uh, moving on to the last episode of the season.

00:54:00Corporate greed.

00:54:02Yeah.

00:54:03ESG and tech with Charles.

00:54:06Our very own Charles.

00:54:07Yes.

00:54:08Um, that was a fascinating episode.

00:54:11Super technical.

00:54:12Really, really fun.

00:54:13I did not know what to expect going in and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

00:54:17Me too.

00:54:18That was super fun.

00:54:19I think it was one of the most technical ones in the season, but from a very fascinating standpoint.

00:54:26Not in a dry way.

00:54:27You know what I mean?

00:54:28Exactly.

00:54:28Charles was really locked in, gave very comprehensive answers to everything we asked.

00:54:33And yes, very patient, very patient.

00:54:37His, uh, his thoughts on the way that, that AI can empower, I guess for him, right?

00:54:45Like there are specific AI tools for climate.

00:54:48There are specific AI tools for monitoring, um, emissions.

00:54:53And it's, it's all about leveraging that.

00:54:55Yep.

00:54:56Right.

00:54:56And it's, um, it's, it's super interesting.

00:55:00He's been, he's been someone that's been in the space forever.

00:55:02So to talk to him and get his perspective on it, um, was really cool.

00:55:08He's been pushing.

00:55:09It was not, not the AI we know now, but at the very least the primitive forms for a while.

00:55:15Definitely.

00:55:15Yeah.

00:55:16He was there when AI was even breathed as an idea, you know, it was awesome.

00:55:22Um, I think he has a mentality that I saw repeatedly amongst our guests, which is the solutions are here.

00:55:30We just have to use them.

00:55:31And I really appreciate that.

00:55:33Cause again, as someone who has been in the space for so long, he's seen a lot of solutions, not

00:55:37work, but he's also aware that we can improve on the ones that do work and make them larger scale.

00:55:44My jaw dropped when he talked about using space satellites to measure G, um, greenhouse gas emissions.

00:55:53What?

00:55:54Like, I know everyone jokes that we live in the future, but that's like future, you know, like driving.

00:56:04I don't know.

00:56:05That was great.

00:56:06The way he explains it, how they do it.

00:56:09Like just, yeah.

00:56:10And how they like see the difference, differentiate between this and this, and we use AI to like calculate it.

00:56:17Like that's sci-fi stuff.

00:56:19I don't know about that.

00:56:20That's, that's, that's literally, that is sci-fi.

00:56:23It's crazy.

00:56:25And it's also like, I don't know.

00:56:27He explained it in such a easy way that I was like, oh, I could measure greenhouse gases from space.

00:56:34You know, it's like a lot of these, these technologies, I think it's a big takeaway I have from this

00:56:38season is that they are not hard to understand if you know what they're actually being used for.

00:56:45If you know what I mean?

00:56:46So you don't have to know the technicalities.

00:56:48You don't have to know the ins and outs.

00:56:49But if you know that once you implement a solution, let's say it's a tech solution, and you can see

00:56:56directly what it does, it suddenly becomes a hundred times less hard to understand.

00:57:03Because you can see a direct impact of the solution being implemented, you know, whether it's good or bad.

00:57:10Now that's up to, to question.

00:57:12But that is the easiest way to understand something.

00:57:16When I do this, what happens?

00:57:18And a lot of our guests helped us understand what happens when you finance the right things, when you come

00:57:23up with a new entrepreneur idea, when you develop a new tech, implement a new framework, all these things, you

00:57:31know, cause and effect.

00:57:33Very easy stuff that we do.

00:57:36A unique thing about Charles is as an, as a tech optimist, right?

00:57:41I don't even know if he's a tech optimist, but as someone who's very passionate about tech and knows how

00:57:44to use it.

00:57:46He is super realistic and, and he understands, like he, he was talking about, oh my God, what's the name

00:57:53of the, of the paradox?

00:57:55Let me, let me look in, in the notes, uh, Jevons paradox, right?

00:57:59Cause we, we were talking about how, like, um, like we, we asked in the post, like, do we rely

00:58:08too much on technology to solve our issues with climate?

00:58:11And he's like, well, here's the problem.

00:58:13The problem, one of the big problems is the Jevons paradox, which is something I knew.

00:58:16I just didn't know the name.

00:58:17Um, just as energy becomes more efficient, we consume more of it as, as, as every time we get these

00:58:25jumps and it's like, it's more efficient, it's greener.

00:58:27It's this, we end up using more of it.

00:58:30And I think we, uh, usually ends up being corporations, but it is also normal, especially using those services, right?

00:58:38Cause at the end of the day, we're the ones using like chat GPT or whatever.

00:58:41Now, whether, how much of that needle we're moving compared to, to business ventures, I don't know, but we are

00:58:48using it.

00:58:48And, and so, you know, it's one of those things where like, you have to think, you have to think

00:58:54about everything in a balanced way.

00:58:57Yeah, definitely.

00:58:59It was, it, it was such an enlightening season.

00:59:02I must say, it was really interesting.

00:59:05The, the, one of the things that blew my mind about our conversations with him, what doesn't have much to

00:59:10do with the main topic, but was like using, what was it?

00:59:13Using AI, well, using technology, um, sensors and tensiometers to listen to the needs of the roots of plants.

00:59:22Yeah, that was, that's sci-fi.

00:59:26That is sci-fi.

00:59:27Yeah, yeah.

00:59:28I think Charles works with the men in black.

00:59:32That is sci-fi.

00:59:34Like, what do you mean?

00:59:35That was one of his earlier projects as well.

00:59:36So this isn't like a 2026 technology.

00:59:39Yeah, that was, back in the days.

00:59:42And it's like, what?

00:59:44That's so cool.

00:59:46It's so cool.

00:59:48Honestly.

00:59:49But again, I think it's one of those things where it's like, once a technology becomes approved and accepted, it

00:59:55stops being talked about as futuristic.

00:59:57It's just like the way we do things, you know?

00:59:59AI isn't this futuristic thing anymore.

01:00:01It's just like the thing we do now and the thing that's part of it.

01:00:05And I think, to an extent, the more people become aware and comfortable with technologies and finance frameworks, the easiest

01:00:14is going to be for us to demand better ones.

01:00:18Yes, absolutely.

01:00:20And so we just got to learn.

01:00:22We just got to learn, which is why I feel like this podcast is really, it's really good that the

01:00:26podcast is very focused on trying to get normal people to watch as much as it is focused on the

01:00:31industry itself.

01:00:33Yep.

01:00:33Because people need to know.

01:00:35But that would be the last episode of the season, Vic.

01:00:39That was it?

01:00:40That was crazy.

01:00:41What a great season.

01:00:43Gosh, I was blown.

01:00:45Blown.

01:00:47I loved it.

01:00:48This was so fun, honestly.

01:00:50Yeah, this was a full season.

01:00:53Thank you so much to the guests for your patience and for your excitement.

01:00:58Everyone came in with the energy.

01:01:00Whether they were mad or excited, everyone brought the energy.

01:01:04It was such engaging conversations.

01:01:06Thanks for explaining it to us in a way that was accessible because you're all experts in your field.

01:01:12So thank you for having a normal conversation with us.

01:01:15That was really nice.

01:01:16I'm really glad that a lot of the guests ended up being like, I didn't know what to expect.

01:01:22But this ended up being a really good, free-flowing conversation, which I think says a lot about the way

01:01:29everything flows.

01:01:31And I think, yeah, I'm super, super happy with how the season turned out.

01:01:36Me too.

01:01:36So if you missed any of the episodes, check out Tangelic Talks on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, so on and

01:01:44so forth.

01:01:45You can check out the blogs for extra resources and to learn more about our guests on TangelicLife.org slash

01:01:51Tangelic Talks.

01:01:52And we'll catch you guys on the next season.

01:01:56How exciting.

01:01:57Ciao.

01:01:57Wow.

01:02:05Let's talk power.

01:02:07Let's talk change.

01:02:09For rural lights to brighter days.

01:02:12Equity rising, voices strong.

01:02:15We're building tomorrow where we all belong.

01:02:20Tangela talks, energy, equity, pride

01:02:23Empowering the world, side by side

01:02:26A spark becomes a fire, a vision that's true

01:02:29Together we rise, it starts with you

Season 4 Wrap: How Tech & Finance Are Distorting Climate Action and How We Think | S04E15

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