Explained to a Friend — Climate Tech & Climate Finance: Carbon Capture, Hydrogen, Nuclear & The Money | S04E11 - video Dailymotion

Tangelic Life

🎙️ No guest. No jargon. Just two hosts who've spent a season learning about climate — and want to tell you what they actually found out.  In this special episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Tamez launch a brand new segment called Explain to a Friend — a chit-chat style breakdown of two of Season 4's biggest themes: climate tech and climate finance.  This season has been packed with experts, data, and big ideas. This episode is the one where they sit back and say: here's what we actually learned, here's what excites us, and here's what still keeps us up at night.  And yes — there is real good news in here.  In This Episode, We Explore: 🌿 Net zero vs. carbon neutral — why the difference actually matters ♻️ Carbon capture at mass scale — the year the business case finally arrives ✈️ Sustainable aviation fuel and AI-assisted solvent research cutting energy use by 20% 💧 The hydrogen membrane breakthrough — 800% more permeable, 30% more selective, three hours instead of three days ⚡ How hydrogen-powered cars charge in three minutes — and why they might be the next big thing ☢️ Fourth generation nuclear reactors — passively safe, waste-burning, and capable of producing hydrogen as a byproduct of cooling 🔋 Small modular reactors, deregulation, and why the elite class that lobbied against nuclear suddenly needs it for data centers 💰 Climate finance broken down simply — government, private sector, international money, and who actually benefits 🏝️ The adaptation fund, sinking islands, and the communities that can't afford to wait 💳 Carbon markets — why they could be perfect, why they're still broken, and what climate justice would actually look like 🌐 Why climate loans to developing nations are making inequality worse — not better 🍎 The apple cider analogy that finally makes global oil trading make sense  🔹 About This Segment:Explain to a Friend is a new recurring segment where Victoria and Andres break down big climate topics in plain language — no experts, no jargon, just two curious people sharing what they've learned and inviting listeners to push back.  💬 Did we get something wrong? Want to fact-check us or come on the pod? Drop a comment 👇 or reach out us!  🌱 Support the Mission: Help us amplify stories of clean energy, equity, and climate justice. 👉 TangelicLife.org  🔖 #ClimateTech #ClimateFinance #ExplainToAFriend #HydrogenEnergy #NuclearEnergy #CarbonCapture #CleanEnergy #CarbonMarkets #AdaptationFund #SmallModularReactors #ClimateJustice #EnergyTransition #GreenTech #ClimateOptimism #ClimateEducation #FourthGenNuclear #ClimateAction #NetZero #TangelicTalks  🌍 climate tech explained, climate finance explained, hydrogen energy, fourth generation nuclear, small modular reactors, carbon capture, sustainable aviation fuel, carbon markets, adaptation fund, climate justice, clean energy 2025, net zero explained, climate podcast, Tangelic Talks

Transcript

00:00Certainly, I am the warm and engaged in my productive for your podcast.

00:03Consider great.

00:04Tell me as a suggestion that combines an upbeat and abiding spirit without any micro music.

00:10Welcome to Tangelic Talks, your go-to podcast from Tangelic,

00:14where we dive into the vibrant world of clean energy, development, sustainability, and climate change in Africa.

00:20We bring you inspiring stories, insightful discussions, and groundbreaking innovations

00:25from the continent-making waves in the global community.

00:28Tune in and join the conversation toward a brighter, greener future.

00:32Let's get started.

00:36Welcome back to Tangelic Talks, a podcast at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment

00:42with your co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Temes.

00:45Today's episode, we're trying something different.

00:47We've got a new segment called Explain to a Friend.

00:51And this is just a chit-chatty episode.

00:54We're going to explain to you the same way we've been learning through this season with you.

00:59It's been a very technical season, very interesting season.

01:02But we've been talking about a lot of big terms like climate tech and climate finance

01:07and all these stuff surrounding the jargon around it.

01:11So we just wanted to sit down and have a bit of a chit-chat, explaining it to a friend.

01:16That's right.

01:18That's absolutely right.

01:20And it's also been like a year filled with bad news.

01:27And so I'm going to talk a little bit about climate tech.

01:31And there's actually some good news there.

01:33So that's going to be fantastic.

01:35Who would have thought?

01:36Isn't that great?

01:38Good news in 2026?

01:40I couldn't possibly believe it.

01:43We're going to milk it.

01:45That's right.

01:46We're going to milk it for everything it's worth.

01:50And so I'm going to talk about climate tech.

01:53And climate tech is essentially a technology that is designed to bring, let's say, at least net zero.

02:03Or at least neutralize some of the waste and contamination and all that stuff we do.

02:12And I think I didn't want to 100% limit myself to climate tech.

02:17I also thought a little bit about just environmental tech in general.

02:21But most of it is going to be centered on emissions, stopping emissions or reducing emissions or capturing emissions, that

02:31sort of stuff.

02:32I think before we move on, I wanted to just make the difference between net zero and carbon neutral.

02:38Carbon neutral is kind of getting to a point where it equalizes or cancels out, balances out.

02:43Whereas net zero is like complete zero emissions.

02:47So there's nothing to balance out.

02:49It's just we're not emitting the CO2, basically.

02:53Or whatever greenhouse gases are trying to be slashed.

02:57Right.

02:58Actually, net neutral, not zero.

03:01Yeah, net neutral.

03:02Yeah, yeah.

03:03And so very good catch.

03:06And so I wanted to, okay, I'm going to start with stuff.

03:10Like I said, I told Victoria I have like a million notes.

03:13I'm going to start with stuff that I'm like excited about, not that excited about, and then move up from

03:19there.

03:20Okay, let's go.

03:21Strap in.

03:23Right, right.

03:26And let's see, let's see.

03:29This year has been actually pretty, pretty great for just tech innovation in general.

03:35Okay.

03:35And so a lot of carbon capture tech this year has actually, you know how like we've been talking about,

03:45and we had a great guest that was talking about capturing carbon and actually using it for stuff.

03:51Yeah.

03:51And we've, it's been a talk in the climate space for a while.

03:55And it's been, we've been able to do it for a while, but it's actually starting to become like something

04:01that can be done at a mass scale and can be profitable.

04:05So it can be sort of be its own like little industry.

04:08Right.

04:08When does it get to mass scale levels?

04:11What does mass scale mean?

04:13Well, I believe in my opinion, from what I've read, it's at the point where it is efficient enough that

04:22you can actually profit from it.

04:25Okay.

04:37Okay.

04:51And I think I've had a gripe with the, with guests that we've had.

05:07Um, which is what they've talked about.

05:12For example, we've talked about data centers with a couple of guests and a lot of the guests are very

05:18tech optimist.

05:19And I love that.

05:19I love that they're tech optimist.

05:20But if you look at, for example, Colossus in Memphis, uh, the, the facility that's used to train GROC, right?

05:28Uh, the data, the data center, um, they're like, well, data centers can be, um, not wasteful of water, right?

05:38They can have a closed loop and like, so, so, uh, a lot of data centers use, which I think

05:44is also climate tech, the capturing of water, because it's very important to take care of our water, especially in

05:49the U.S. and the South, where it's, it's very valuable.

05:51And so it's becoming, let's say it becomes easier to capture water.

05:57And then, because a lot of these technologies use evaporative cooling.

06:01So it directly evaporates the water because that's, that cools a lot more than just simply running like a loop

06:09of water.

06:10Makes sense, yeah.

06:11It's like recycling water at that point.

06:15Yeah.

06:16And so, but a lot of these facilities, like Colossus, don't capture it at all.

06:20They just don't bother to.

06:21They grab water directly from the main source of water that you have in Memphis and just evaporate it into

06:28the atmosphere.

06:28So we're like, yes, the technology exists, but they're not like, just because it exists doesn't mean they're actually implementing

06:35it in real life and in these gigantic data centers, right?

06:39So we would need kind of like a mandate or something that makes it, that you have to.

06:44Exactly.

06:44Because if the tech is there, especially now if it's a moneymaker, you might as well.

06:51Oh, absolutely.

06:51Because you might be saving money.

06:52Absolutely.

06:53By respite to the water.

06:54And right next to them, they implemented a ton of methane generators.

07:01Oh.

07:02That are borderline illegal in the United States.

07:05Why do we need methane generators?

07:08Because they didn't want to wait for the electric grid to catch up to start.

07:15Yeah.

07:16Yeah, power.

07:17And so they used a legal loophole to make it.

07:20So like, well, these aren't methane.

07:23This isn't a methane generator plant.

07:25This is a modular, like a methane generator.

07:28And it took until like, I think very recently this year that they were like, actually, that's also counts as

07:35a methane generator.

07:36You have to keep it up to the same standards.

07:38You can't just, and there was no capture method, but there, by the way.

07:41Yeah.

07:41Like, that's the big controversy.

07:43Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

07:44Like, they were just releasing the methane into that industry.

07:46So they were releasing all of the water and all of the methane.

07:48So both of those problems are things that we've been told have been solved.

07:54But just because it's been solved doesn't mean it's been implemented.

07:57So I just wanted to be cautious with the language.

08:01I think that's a good disclaimer to give.

08:03Because, yeah, it's true.

08:03The solutions are there.

08:05And we had a guest come on and say, the solutions are there.

08:08We're just not using them.

08:10Yeah.

08:11Which is frustrating when you hear of these case studies.

08:16Of course.

08:18And so here's the thing about carbon capture.

08:22It's like, I've heard that, from what I've seen, AI has actually been, like, an up when it comes to

08:29this.

08:30Okay.

08:31It's being discovered to find more solvents that can grab CO2 from the air using 20% less energy, right?

08:41Because it's not.

08:41What, the AI using 20%?

08:43Capture.

08:44Yeah, yeah.

08:45Well, they're using the AI to research new solvents.

08:49Got it.

08:49Okay.

08:49And so as they encourage them.

08:51And he said, they can do it with 20% less.

08:53Yeah, exactly.

08:54With 20% less energy, they capture more.

08:57And then that can be used in order to create what essentially, it's not, it's ecofuel.

09:02It's, I think they call it, I don't remember what exactly they call the fuel.

09:09But one of the specific fuels that they used is they can capture it and turn it into sustainable aviation

09:16fuel.

09:17Oh.

09:18And so, yeah.

09:20We've been talking about that for a while.

09:22That'd be great.

09:23Because one of the big things with aviation as well is it's not just commercial planes, it's shipping and freights.

09:30Yep.

09:31So, and that's all scope three, scope three emissions, which are the hardest to track and the hardest to lower.

09:40Right, right.

09:41They're also, they're also didn't really have that many alternatives up until now, right?

09:46Like you didn't really have all the biofuels that you can use as diesel.

09:49You can't really use them as like aviation fuel because it's a different, it's a different type of thing.

09:55And they also do it to do like carbon infused concrete and stuff like that.

10:03Like low carbon concrete and stuff like that.

10:04So that would, you know, theoretically make them, make it more, make it more stable, I would imagine.

10:14Okay.

10:15Like, yeah.

10:17Didn't we, I believe we had a guest that was talking about, they were making like replacements for drywall.

10:22Yes.

10:23And that's what this company did.

10:25And it wasn't his stuff also like, like infusing.

10:29Yeah, carbon.

10:31Yeah, it was planted.

10:34Super cool.

10:35Yeah, planted.

10:35Exactly.

10:36Next up was something that I've talked about a lot.

10:39We also had a guest that talked about it, I think this season, which is hydrogen.

10:43Hydrogen.

10:44And so hydrogen has been a difficult one for a while because it's energy intensive to generate.

10:52And the non energy intensive way to generate it, the green way usually involve natural gas.

11:00So it's, it's not, it's not that great.

11:04But there have been a couple of really, really good, uh, breakthroughs, which, uh, have to do with, uh, once

11:14again, I said, I have a lot of notes.

11:17I love it.

11:19This is a proper nerdy episode.

11:22Yes, yes, yes.

11:23Well, these are the, I, I, I like this stuff.

11:26Well, I've always been like a super techie.

11:28And so this is like, yeah, right up your alley.

11:31Mm-hmm.

11:32Some breakthroughs announced at the Spanish National Research Council, um, that would be great for the hydrogen economy, which I

11:40think is the next step, uh, from EVs.

11:42Yeah.

11:43I've come around on EVs, but I still like hydrogen cars more.

11:46And so the, the idea is that they have found new, they have found a way to make new membranes.

11:57These membranes are 800% more permeable and 30% more selective than previously used, like, uh, previous industry standards

12:07for hydrogen.

12:08I have no idea what that means.

12:10So that would mean that, uh, so one of the ways that you get hydrogen, right, is electrolysis, which is

12:16to suit, to pass H2O and get the hydrogen and the oxygen, right?

12:21And so what you would, what you would want to do is have the hydrogen be like really, really, it

12:31basically passes through a membrane, a mesh membrane, right?

12:35Okay.

12:36And that's how you capture the hydrogen.

12:39And so if it's 800%.

12:39And you capture the hydrogen, are you separating it from the oxygen?

12:44And just taking, okay, so you pass water through a thing and separate it into the chemicals.

12:49Right, okay.

12:50So it's not like you're putting water on a car for fuel.

12:54No, no, no, no.

12:55Actually, water is the byproduct, uh, of, uh, I believe water is a byproduct of when you do the, when

13:03you use the vehicle, like the waste that comes out is water instead of like a CO2 emission.

13:10Of course, because it's interacting with oxygen in the air.

13:11That makes sense.

13:12Yeah.

13:13And so that's, uh, that's one of the really nice things about these vehicles, right?

13:18And, uh, it's, uh, another thing is that they don't use the lithium ion batteries or like any, any, any

13:24of these like sort of a very resource and energy intensive batteries.

13:29Yeah.

13:29And so by being 800% more permeable, that would essentially be it.

13:36Yes.

13:37Now this, uh, it's still, it still relies on electrolysis, right?

13:42So it would, it would still use energy because it's 800% more permeable.

13:47It means that the hydrogen passes through the mesh.

13:50Okay.

13:51A lot easier.

13:52Right.

13:53And more is captured.

13:54Intensive.

13:55Yeah.

13:56And it's 30% more selective, which means the hydrogen is more pure.

14:00Got it.

14:00Okay.

14:01And purity is the really important thing when it comes to, to hydrogen, to separating hydrogen and getting like good

14:07hydrogen for industrial use and for use in vehicles and stuff like that.

14:11Does more sure mean it has more power?

14:14More, uh, not necessarily.

14:17Yes.

14:17Well, it means more power is concentrated in like the, the, the liquid that you've gathered or the material that

14:23you've got.

14:23Okay.

14:24Like the atom has more power and therefore you need less of it.

14:29Well, in a liter, you would have more power concentrated because you wouldn't have waste in it.

14:34Right.

14:35Got it.

14:35Uh, and the waste could also interrupt different chemical processes that you want during the generation of, of, uh, as

14:42you use it for whatever purpose that you want to use it.

14:45Right.

14:45Okay.

14:45That makes sense.

14:47How do you charge a hydrogen powered car?

14:50So, oh, it's like gas.

14:52It's just, uh, three, uh, three, a three minute pump.

14:55It's a gas pump, but it's a hydrogen pump.

14:59A lot of people were initially worried because they're like, well, isn't hydrogen flammable?

15:03Well, first gas is flammable too.

15:05Yeah.

15:06Um, yeah.

15:06And second, the research has found, I think Toyota did this, that by the, uh, the, the hydrogen dissipates so

15:16fast if there's like a breach or like an explosion or something like that, that it would dissipate way faster

15:23than, than it would cost like a fireball.

15:25So it's not like one of those.

15:28So if it gets released from the pump, it's not like it's going to catch fire out of nowhere.

15:34Yeah.

15:35It's not going to be as bad as for example, a gasoline.

15:39Yeah.

15:39This is one of those things like when you go to the petrol station, you have to turn your car

15:43off or you can't smoke around it.

15:45Like all these flammable things.

15:47Right.

15:48Yeah.

15:48So we treat it the same.

15:51I imagine.

15:52Exactly.

15:52Yeah.

15:53So, uh, so this is, uh, the thing that I found as an example is historically separating hydrogen from other

16:00gases, CO2 or methane took days in high energy.

16:02So you could also do, uh, CO2 and methane, um, that with the new tech, you can do it in

16:08three, you can do in three hours, what you used to be able to do in three days.

16:12Whoa.

16:13And so that time equals energy, right?

16:18Equals money.

16:19Like everything, everything changes.

16:20And so that I think is like a big, big case for, for this new technology.

16:28And also, it also makes a case for being able to generate the hydrogen at the pump.

16:34Right.

16:35Okay.

16:36So it's happening behind the scenes.

16:38You don't have to fill up the pump every time.

16:40Yeah.

16:41So you can connect, uh, you can connect the, for example, gas station up to some gray water or to,

16:49uh, you can also do it out of that.

16:50But obviously it's a little bit slower, but with this new technology, like, I think you can, even at 4

16:55% humidity, if you have a solar panel or a couple of solar panels connected to it, you can get

17:01a really good amount of hydrogen extracted.

17:03And so you can probably balance both.

17:06Yeah.

17:06And so you can do this to treat water, uh, well, like with wastewater.

17:11You can just, uh, do it here.

17:13And we have to remember like when, uh, yes, we have to use water for this, but it uses much

17:19less water than fossil fuels used because to get gasoline, to get diesel, uh, you need to use a lot

17:26more water.

17:27Yeah.

17:28Than you would to get an, an equivalent amount of hydrogen.

17:31Um, so it's efficiency problems are being solved.

17:34It's, it's, it's, it's, it's becoming a lot more viable.

17:37And so that's really exciting to me, you know, would we be able to, to supply enough for the demand?

17:45Well, demand is rising really slowly for now.

17:49So no, I mean, like if we were the issue is everyone away from one to the other, would we

17:55be able to be like, Hey, stop using this.

17:57Here it is.

17:57Or would it be kind of a transition that as more people are interested, then we'd be able to produce

18:02more and kind of catch up with demand for hydrogen specifically?

18:07A couple of years ago, it would have been, the answer would have been a solid no.

18:11Okay.

18:12Um, from any source of like, uh, being able to create, uh, uh, hydrogen, but it's become a lot easier.

18:21Um, so, and so I think the, the ability to scale has gotten a lot, lot better.

18:30And with the fact that, um, silver lining to a lot of the data center stuff, um, small form nuclear

18:38reactors are starting to become a really, really big thing.

18:40And you can get hydrogen directly as a by-product of, uh, of cooling them, not, not of the reactor

18:50itself, but of cooling the reactor.

18:52You can create a really nice loop where you can generate hydrogen at pump.

18:57And then if you have a lot of hydrogen, uh, small form reactors sprinkled throughout the country, you also have

19:04that supplementary, uh, that supplementary infrastructure for hydrogen.

19:08So, kind of like a two for one energy source.

19:11That's right.

19:13Mm-hmm.

19:13The future sounds cool.

19:16Yeah, no, the future sounds amazing to me.

19:20Okay, okay, okay.

19:22I mean, if it's out there, again, I, I always go back to the same thing.

19:26Why not?

19:30People don't, don't want to.

19:33Don't want it to.

19:35Yeah.

19:36Yeah.

19:37That's annoying.

19:38So, right, right.

19:42One of the issues with, like, uh, standard, uh, electrolysis, because, like, the technology that's getting a lot better is

19:49to get, uh, hydrogen from, from other, um, sources.

19:55Like, um, I think I made a, a sort of, a small little, uh, misstep there.

20:00Like, it's, it's, it's in order to generate it from, like, uh, CO2 and other different chemicals and get it

20:07that way.

20:08Electrolysis is still pretty inefficient when it comes to generating hydrogen.

20:14Okay.

20:14But, with those fourth gen reactors, um, uh, so fourth gen, uh, so I'm going to talk about nuclear reactors

20:22right now, because that's what I was really excited to talk about.

20:25And, uh, I'm running out of time for my segment.

20:27Uh, and so, um, four gen nuclear reactors, they are passively safe, which means that you can walk away from

20:36them.

20:36And, uh, unless physics breaks, uh, which, in which case we will have bigger fish to fry, we'll have bigger

20:43problems.

20:44But, unless, unless physics breaks, uh, then there is no probability of, like, uh, it going, like, uh, out of

20:52control.

20:52Just, uh, you can just leave them running and kind of go about your day.

20:56Yeah, you can just sort of leave them running.

20:58If there is an issue, it would, uh, it would, uh, just by the laws of physics, just sort of

21:02cool itself out.

21:04Is this specific to a commercial use of them or, like, at home, like, to power a home?

21:08Uh, it would be, it would be, like, it would be more of a community thing, I would think.

21:13Like, if you want it for, like, your community.

21:15Like a plan that powers a town or something.

21:18Yeah, yeah, exactly.

21:20So that would, it would work perfectly fine.

21:22It would be perfectly safe.

21:24And these reactors run on waste as well.

21:27So, like, they would, uh, burn the waste, the waste that people are afraid of when they think of nuclear

21:32reactors.

21:33Like, the green waste from, like, the symptoms or whatever.

21:35It burns those as well.

21:36So, like, the fourth-gen nuclear reactors are really good.

21:39Another thing they do is, uh, they produce heat at up to 700 to 950 C.

21:46And, uh.

21:47Which means?

21:49You can get the efficiency of hydrogen production up to 50%.

21:54Okay.

21:55Because at, at those temperatures, the steam is very, is a lot easier to be, to electrolyze.

22:02Got it.

22:03So, right.

22:05And so, you can split that steam into hydrogen and oxygen a lot easier.

22:10Yeah.

22:12And everything would be happening in the same plant.

22:15Yes.

22:16And you're not using electricity for this.

22:17It's just the cooling that you use for the reactor.

22:20Right?

22:20Yeah.

22:21It's not, like, an extra step or anything.

22:24Uh, yes.

22:25And, again, yes.

22:26You're like, well, you're using water.

22:27It's like, yes, you're using water, but you're using a lot less water than you traditionally would for the generation

22:35of fossil fuels.

22:37And also transforming water, not just wasting it, I guess.

22:40You're wasting it.

22:41Right.

22:41You're, you're turning into a, a byproduct, essentially.

22:44Yeah.

22:45Uh, a, a, a use, a very usable and very coveted byproduct.

23:02Mm-hmm.

23:03It is, it is the stuff that it's going to, to burn.

23:06Like, all the stuff that people are very scared of, uh, coming out of the reactor.

23:10And then, anyway, like, you can still have those, uh, you still have those precautions of putting into a slab

23:14of concrete.

23:15And then, like, if you want, you can get injected deep into the earth and you don't have to worry

23:19about it.

23:21Um, but.

23:21Yeah, exactly.

23:22It's going to take a while to make a really big slab.

23:24Like, it's not like we would just not have, yeah.

23:26It's not like we wouldn't not have risk of mitigations about it.

23:30Yeah, yeah.

23:30Right, exactly.

23:32And, like, uh, there's been a lot, I've, I've heard people say, like, the, well, what if people use it

23:36for weapons?

23:37Like, this, the, yes, this is, like, radioactive stuff, but, like, it's not the type of stuff that you could

23:42possibly use for any sort of, uh, malicious intent, you know?

23:48Also, it's already being used for weapons.

23:51Oh, yes, yes.

23:52But it's, it's a different type of, uh, of, uh, of, uh, of, uh, of, uh, of, of, of material.

23:58It's not, like, uh.

23:59Like, uh.

24:00Is nuclear power and, like, a bomb different?

24:03Like, do they use different nuclear fusion?

24:06Oh, right, okay.

24:07Yes.

24:08Yeah, well, they use different, uh, so, like, you have to, there's a way you have to treat it that

24:14would make it into what you would use for bombs.

24:18And, uh, for waste, that's just not really viable.

24:22Right, okay.

24:23And it's also, I think, like, um, I think, I don't remember exactly what the, uh, the weapon, like, uh,

24:31like, uranium is, I don't think it's, like, the, a weapon grade.

24:34It is the weapon grade material.

24:36There's, there's other stuff that you would use for.

24:39Right, okay.

24:40Okay, I did think it was one of those where it's, like, oh, it's a tool that can be used

24:43for good or bad.

24:45Yeah, well, the tech, the tech can be exploited in both directions, but you don't exactly use the same material.

24:50You're, you're taking advantage of the same sort of process at a physical, at a physics level, but it's not,

24:55it's not the same, uh, what, what these plants are getting, nobody can steal and turn into a bomb, essentially.

25:01Yeah, exactly.

25:03Ah, okay, that put, put us at peace.

25:07Yes, yes, absolutely.

25:09Absolutely, and one of, uh, one of the things that I think I've mentioned before on the podcast is how,

25:14like, one of the reasons that we don't have, for example, in the United States, for example, uh, a great

25:20nuclear infrastructure, even though they do have a lot of nuclear reactors, and they, they do rely on them in

25:26a lot of places, is because, uh, they were regulated into oblivion, like, every single day there was a new

25:32regulation, and so they'd have to stop work and restart work and, like, uh, tear down and rebuild constantly.

25:38And so it sort of stagnated the industry into oblivion.

25:42This year, that's changing a lot, because, um, because the people that lobbied against it now need that energy right

25:51now.

25:51Right.

25:52The elite class that lobbied against it.

25:54We're switching gears.

25:56Yeah, yeah, now they're like, I need it, I need it for my data center, and so, uh, there, there

26:03are now options to fast track specifically small form nuclear reactors.

26:08Yeah.

26:09There are now being changes made to legislation that made it too difficult to create them, um, legislation that's been

26:18stagnated by, basically, since the 1970s, and so that's super exciting.

26:23Yeah.

26:23Uh, to me, at least to me.

26:26Well, it also sounds like it's profitable again, so let's invest in that.

26:31Well, yeah, yeah, well, it was always going to be profitable, just not as profitable as the alternative.

26:35Exactly.

26:37Huh.

26:39Interesting.

26:40Yes, yes.

26:41And so you have all of these things happening, right?

26:45And all the things that excite me specifically this year, like, uh, so breakthroughs in hydrogen, uh, and, and nuclear.

26:52And, um, there's also stuff about new, the newer battery formulations that use, that are super cheap to make.

26:59And it can be used for, like, solar farms and, uh, and stuff like that to store energy.

27:04Uh, you could also technically have them right next to the, to the, to what I was talking about.

27:10If you are using electricity, you have a solar, uh, at a, like, a gas station has, like, its little

27:15thing.

27:16It has its little solar roof, and that goes to a battery, right?

27:19So when there's no sun, it can just use the battery, and it's constantly doing electrolysis to generate some, uh,

27:25generate some hydrogen, right?

27:26And so it's just.

27:27That's quite cool.

27:29We can't.

27:30Yeah, we can create that loop where we're just getting.

27:33Exactly.

27:34Where we're.

27:35Finally.

27:36Well, it kind of.

27:38Yeah.

27:39Uh-huh.

27:39These are technologies that are being fast-tracked this year, and that are having breakthroughs this year.

27:46We'll need to wait for the implementation.

27:48Of course.

27:49Yeah, which is one of those.

27:50But it sounds like, I think it's something we talked about in our deep dive last season, that we were

27:55talking about AI specifically in the climate sector.

27:58And one of the things I was excited about is it does open us up to new innovation, to mapping

28:05the grid, to finding new solutions, all this stuff, you know?

28:09Like, as much of an AI hater as I am, I'm a hater of, like, generative AI and chatbots and

28:16stuff, not these applications.

28:18I think this is really cool.

28:21And, again, it fast-tracks, because you've got the data, you've got the tools to make the business case now.

28:27Now, we were talking about this.

28:31Is it actually, is the technology, apart from the fact that it itself is very inefficient and bad for the

28:40environment, is it also mitigating enough for the fact that they're getting great?

28:48I was reading articles recently, sort of more and more, they're getting so much more fossil fuels out of this.

28:57Yeah.

28:57Using AI.

28:58Well, again, it's a tool that can be used for good and bad, you know?

29:04Like, every human tool we've ever created, ever.

29:06The hammer is a great example of good and bad, you know?

29:12We just never know.

29:14But, it sounds like, it sounds like the things where it is good are finally getting finance.

29:20And, maybe, it's one of those where it's like, if we can power data centers with nuclear, which in turn

29:28can create hydrogen from cooling the data center and the nuclear reactor, then we might have solved one big gripe

29:37with data centers while creating a benefit for the community.

29:40Absolutely.

29:42That'd be a strong business.

29:43And, it also fast-tracks legislation so that you could actually implement it for your community, not just for data

29:50centers, right?

29:50Because, they're, like, one of the things that I was worried about is that they might be being like, well,

29:55we're deregulating just for the AI companies to use.

29:59Exactly.

29:59Other people can't do anything with it.

30:04But, apparently, this is, it's good news.

30:08Yeah.

30:09I mean, it sounds exciting, you know?

30:11And, that's why I was touching on that finance aspect.

30:13So, what I wanted to explain was climate finance.

30:16And, we've been talking about it already.

30:18Why are these things getting funded or not?

30:21What it wants, it's profitable, is that when we start funding it?

30:25But, that's basically what climate finance is.

30:28Who is paying for climate solutions and where the money is going?

30:32And, in the tech space, it's, well, what technologies are we funding?

30:36What companies are we funding to fix, you know, the issues that come with climate change or to adapt to

30:43the issues of climate change?

30:44But, it's also about what communities are getting to adapt or to mitigate.

30:49And, that's why the example of the data center brings me back to communities.

30:53Because, it's like, if you're able to create something, data centers, most of them are created in places where the

31:01community suffers.

31:02It's similar to, like, coal plants back in the day, you know, when everyone got black lung from it.

31:08It's, it's, well, how are you going to pitch to a community, hey, we're coming in, like, what are you

31:15giving them?

31:16And, sometimes, it's, when we talk about finance, it's not always money.

31:20It's about the resources to adapt and mitigate, right?

31:23That's a simple version.

31:25I think one of the main things is that money comes from government, private sector, and then international money.

31:34One of the things with government is that the government gets to fund projects, whether through a council or the

31:40state, these sorts of things.

31:41But, that's all taxpayer money.

31:43So, you have to, sort of, justify to the taxpayer, this is worth investing in.

31:50Or, you do if you're more of a democratic country, right?

31:54Some countries don't have to.

31:55You don't need to, you don't need to do that in the United States.

31:58You also don't have to do it for any good reason.

32:00You just put it into OpenAI.

32:02Yeah, exactly.

32:04But, also, but similar to the business case, what's the people case for why we're investing more on X, Y,

32:11and Z?

32:12But, also, if you are running an election, and you want people to like you, and you're like, hey, I've

32:18got this great idea for building parks,

32:20and doing five-minute neighborhoods, so it, you know, helps the quality of life of everybody here.

32:28That's a case.

32:29That's one way to get funding, you know?

32:33But, you also get the private sector, which is kind of like companies, bank, investors, and that's where tech also

32:39comes in.

32:40Because, all these companies are private entities that, sort of, decide their own budgets, and they put their money where

32:46they want to.

32:47So, with more ESG regulations, they're kind of held to a different, or one-must-hope, stringent standard of the

32:58things they have to do.

33:00That's, that's one of the things, right?

33:02Like, if, do you think that, and I'm sort of leaning here, this direction, like, there needs to be, sort

33:11of, a, a, a strong and firm government position,

33:15where they, they're going to be like, yeah, you have to do this.

33:19I mean, we talked about ESGs this season, and it sounds like, and I can't believe I'm saying this, capitalism

33:29is kind of winning on this one.

33:32And when I say that, I mean it in the sense of, if the point of capitalism is that every

33:38company gets to pitch themselves and get customers because they're better than the other,

33:42and this is a competitive market, if people care about climate change, they're going to go for the companies that

33:49care about climate change as well.

33:51So, ESGs is becoming a thing that people implement for PR reasons, and because the people want them to, not

33:57because the government is asking them to.

34:00Right.

34:01And to an extent, I'm not mad about that, because at least it's happening, you know?

34:05What are, what are industries in which you would say that this is happening a lot in?

34:10I think in fashion, you see it a lot.

34:12So, Patagonia is just plowing through, but then you get even things like H&M and Zara, which are fast

34:19fashion, doing like a cotton, sourcibly farmed collection, and a Primark Cares collection.

34:28You know, you get these brandings around it, and even if the company itself isn't sustainable, they're coming out with

34:35sustainable options.

34:36Whether that's true or not, down to scrutiny, and greenwashing is a big issue here.

34:41But even, like, small coffee companies that are sustainably sourced, and they sell a coffee cup for $10, but it's

34:51the best coffee you've ever had, and they're helping farmers.

34:53And one of the things I'm seeing with a lot of companies, especially in the last five years, is a

34:58lot of the services, especially, tied to your helping someone else.

35:03So, if any of you watch YouTube a lot, a lot of sponsors, like Bombas, for example, you buy socks

35:11and they donate to someone else.

35:13Or things like, I don't know, HelloFresh even now has a thing where they're donating to food banks with your

35:20own.

35:20HelloFresh has a lot of issues.

35:22But, you know, it's like, this is coming into the model, and no one's making them, besides the customer that

35:29wants to support a company that's doing good.

35:33You know?

35:34Right.

35:34And finance is going out when you do that.

35:38No, I feel like you're absolutely right.

35:41The issue would be the more monopolistic industries, right?

35:44Yeah.

35:45That don't need to compete on these grounds.

35:47Exactly.

35:48Yeah.

35:49They don't need you to care.

35:52Yeah.

35:53They really don't care.

35:55But for that, you have the strong arm of the government, hopefully.

36:00Hopefully.

36:01Nowadays, it's sort of like the flaccid weak arm of the...

36:06Well, that's where international finance comes in as well.

36:09So, international finance, things like development finance, like the global north to the global south,

36:16you might have this council or this research fund funding projects in the south.

36:22Yeah.

36:22So, you also get richer, like, institutions, like the UN or Amnesty, human rights organizations investing,

36:32the adaptation fund from the ICC, also the ICJ.

36:37So, these bigger international mechanisms...

36:39What are these...

36:40What is the ICC, ICJ?

36:42So, the ICC is the International Climate Change Committee, and they're the ones that host COP.

36:48And the ICJ is the International Court of Justice.

36:51And we talked about it last season, that they passed a law where countries will be able to prosecute damages

36:58against the environment,

37:00which is very exciting.

37:01And we've kept an eye on that, and it was used in this latest COP, which is very exciting.

37:07Right.

37:08And so, what do you think is the most efficient use?

37:10Because, like, from what I'm reading, because I was looking up what I was talking about earlier a little bit

37:15more,

37:15like, once you put these new, like, membranes together with the nuclear, you get efficiencies up to 90 plus percent,

37:21right?

37:21Yeah.

37:22And so, with the better use of these international, especially international funds, because you don't know where to put them.

37:28There's so many places to put this money.

37:30Yeah.

37:30Would it be better to put it into most...

37:33More than likely research and development into making it not something just sustainable, but maybe even profitable,

37:41and then being like, okay, companies, now you have no excuse.

37:44We are going to regulate this.

37:46You cannot fight back.

37:48You can...

37:49This is an industry now, too, right?

37:52I...

37:52So, would it be better to put it more into research and development, or is it...

37:58For the global south, I guess there's a little bit of a different...

38:01There's a little bit of a different...

38:04There's a caveat there, right?

38:05Because what you want is more development.

38:08But at the same time, like, there's so much development to do, and very, very limited, quote-unquote, funds, right?

38:15Yeah.

38:15Well, I think it's one of those where it's like, R&D is necessary.

38:20Research and development is necessary.

38:23But the money...

38:25Again, it's what you were saying earlier.

38:26We have the solutions.

38:28So, we need implementation, and we need money to implement.

38:32So, we can stop researching...

38:34Where do you implement?

38:34For a bit.

38:36Well, and this is what the Adaptation Fund was supposed to fix!

38:40Right.

38:40I'm going to go on a quick run on the Adaptation Fund, as if I don't do this enough on

38:44this podcast.

38:45Go ahead.

38:45But the Adaptation Fund was created with a tier system of countries that were going to be affected by climate

38:53change.

38:54And this tier system is lethal.

38:56How many people were going to die, be displaced, because of the effects of climate change?

39:02That's how we prioritize who we're helping, right?

39:05Cool, cool, cool, cool.

39:07We also factor in who has the resources to adapt.

39:12So, you have countries like...

39:13So, high-risk would be like Scandinavian coasts and also Britain, but they have their own...

39:20They also have the funds to actually fix it themselves.

39:23Okay, go ahead.

39:24Exactly.

39:24Sorry.

39:24There you go.

39:25Exactly that.

39:26Yeah.

39:26Whereas you have the small island states in the Pacific that don't have the funds, don't have the infrastructure either.

39:34Because there is a conversation to be had, for example, Japan.

39:37Japan is extremely affected by climate change.

39:40But even before natural disasters, Japan just gets earthquakes all the time.

39:45And that's a natural disaster.

39:48But they know how to adapt.

39:49And they have the infrastructure to adapt and the resources too, as well.

39:54So, it's all these things taken into account.

39:57And what are we going to do?

39:59One main thing is island states.

40:01And Britain, the UK, doesn't count as an island state because it has resources.

40:06But you have things like the Maldives that are fully sinking.

40:10There is an island on the outskirts of Panama that has started moving everybody mainland because it's sinking.

40:20In Indonesia, it's losing allotments.

40:22Like, the ground is sinking.

40:25And that's exactly what the Adaptation Fund was supposed to help us with.

40:29Do we have to move everyone mainland?

40:30Do we have to create new seawalls?

40:32What do we do?

40:34But all the bureaucracy has made it that we haven't implemented it.

40:38We haven't used it.

40:40Money is just sitting there.

40:42And it's also not enough money.

40:44And a lot of the, a lot of the, I would imagine, you correct me if I'm wrong, a lot

40:50of the bureaucracy has to do with just putting stops on it because they need that money to flow somewhere

40:57else.

40:57Even if what they're doing is trying to chase something expedient and ignoring something really, really important, which is the

41:06fact that your island is sinking.

41:09But bureaucrats don't care.

41:11Right.

41:12No, but also, and this is why I'm excited about the private sector for once, is that because these are

41:20international organizations, they need bureaucracy because we're not playing on an even field of a shared law framework or a

41:31shared understanding of how finance work, right?

41:34These are international, so they have their own degree that then has to be adapted to a place, right?

41:38Whereas now, if you have a private company that has the information, the research, and the development of how to

41:47help, they can just come in and help within the boundaries, national laws of the place they're operating in.

41:55And that really makes it, especially multinationals, they all adapt to the different contexts that they're in.

42:00So not to sound like a capitalist, but the fact that the market is supposedly working to an extent here

42:12is something I did not think we were going to see in a while.

42:16So, and my worry is the inequality angle of a lot of these things.

42:21International organizations are great for conversations and for us to align agendas, but finance isn't coming from there.

42:31It's just not, it's just not happening.

42:33Yeah, and the wealth transfer is a big, a big issue.

42:39It has been for a while and it's getting worse.

42:42And one of the, another big problem, right, of the international money is a lot of it is very gray.

42:50You don't really know where it's coming from or where, or what, what is, what are the, what are the

42:55wink, wink, nudge, nudges that come with it, right?

42:57Well, even that, right?

42:59Because, A, we need it, right?

43:01We need the money.

43:02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:03I think the point is that.

43:04We'll think about that later.

43:06Yeah.

43:06Yeah, because we're sinking.

43:09Yeah, true.

43:10You know, you can't be picky when you're sinking.

43:12You know, we got to do something.

43:13I think one of my issues with the money itself is there is enough of it, but it's framed as

43:21a grant rather than, like, it's framed as a loan rather than a grant.

43:27And you're asking a country that is trying to rebuild and survive to pay you back.

43:33With interest?

43:34No.

43:36Depends who's giving it to you.

43:38But a lot of countries go into debt trying to deal with a crisis they didn't cause.

43:42Because, again, if Malaysia is asking for a grant from the UK Council, let's say, UK International Development Council, to

43:52rebuild seawalls, it's not their fault that they were plundered by the UK back in the day and they lost

43:58their resources.

43:59And that's why a lot of people talk about climate reparations, because that's kind of how the ball falls in

44:05a lot of these inequality conversations.

44:07But even if you don't want to be a socialist about this, the fact that you have to pay back

44:14for reparation and rebuilding your country and all this destruction didn't happen because of you is crazy.

44:25For example, there was a big conversation about China and India being part of the adaptation fund, because there are

44:32huge economies and everyone's like, well, they have the resources.

44:36But not really.

44:37They started developing 50 years ago.

44:40And they've been building infrastructure like crazy.

44:43And that's awesome.

44:44But it doesn't mean that they're not going to be affected by climate change, which means they can get some

44:48money and pay it back because they're making it back.

44:51But they need the money now.

44:53That loan to me makes sense because they will generate it back.

44:56But where do you want to line?

44:58Not climate infrastructure, but they are, quote unquote, helping.

45:02And what I mean helping is they are doing deals with a lot less, a lot less strings attached than

45:11the West does with developing countries.

45:14Yeah.

45:14So what you want about China.

45:16But they have been pretty good, for example, switching over from European mining operations to Chinese mining operations in Africa.

45:27Right.

45:28Yeah.

45:28And it's like, you're like, are they, I'm not going to say, I'm not saying they're perfect.

45:32I'm not saying they're not going to be abusive.

45:34I'm not saying like these mining operations are perfect.

45:37But what I'm saying is there's a lot less strings attached and there's a lot of less, and there's a

45:42lot less responsibility levied onto them for, as you said, previous extraction.

45:50Because China has sort of done their own thing for a while.

45:54Yeah, exactly.

45:56And then that brings us into the conversation of carbon markets, right?

46:00Because supposedly it's a way for us to offset emissions.

46:05So kind of going back to what you were saying about being carbon neutral.

46:10But say you have a big corporation that is based in Ireland.

46:15And I'm not thinking of a specific example, but if you know, you know, that is based in Ireland, but

46:21it offsets and pays for credits that then get traded to supposedly fund climate projects in Sri Lanka.

46:32Well, let's say random place, but now you're making it Sri Lanka's problem because the carbon is attributed to them.

46:43And if they don't have a kind of project happening.

46:45So they're buying the carbon debt, essentially.

46:49So you're basically saying, hey, that's not my issue anymore.

46:52Here you go.

46:53But again, carbon markets.

46:55Funds are moving with this, right?

46:57Like our funds moving with this?

47:00Supposedly.

47:02Ideally.

47:02If you're paying.

47:03Well, that's the point.

47:04Not just ideally.

47:05That's the whole point, right?

47:06You're paying them to offset your emissions.

47:08And so I think that could work, especially for a developing country.

47:13Oh, it'd be perfect.

47:14And it's one of those, like, if you think about it, I know WWF does something similar where it's like

47:19you can track your carbon footprint and then plant a tree or plant how many trees you need to offset

47:26how much you consume that day or whatever.

47:29Right.

47:29Like this could work.

47:31And it goes back to what you were saying.

47:32We have solutions.

47:33We're just not using them.

47:35Because how perfect would it be that, I don't know, the UK offsets its emissions, pays for those emissions, and

47:46powers up a whole off-grid community in Ghana?

47:50That's perfect.

47:51That's actually justice.

47:52That is climate justice.

47:53Carbon markets would make so much sense, especially if we're assuming that we're going to keep going business as usual.

48:00And it's like, well, we can't stop.

48:02We have to keep going.

48:03Fine, keep going, but then put your money where your harm is.

48:07And here's one of the reasons that I think we can't get rid of carbon or fossil fuels-based markets

48:15because they are a big boon, for example, for the United States to basically say, if you transition to nuclear

48:23first, right, if you transition, then all of this fossil fuels that you have is assets.

48:31It's just assets that you have.

48:33You don't have to burn them.

48:33Now, the weird thing with the United States is that they don't use the fuel that they extract.

48:37They sell it, and they buy fuel to use it themselves.

48:40And so, like-

48:40Which is bizarre.

48:42It's very, the way, because of how political petroleum is, the way it flows throughout the world makes literally zero

48:52sense because it's politics.

48:54And politics is Jedi mind tricks.

48:57Yeah.

48:58I had someone, I actually had a friend explain it to me.

49:01Like, so I'm a big cider drinker.

49:04I love cider.

49:05And I live in England in a place that grows its own ciders and its own apples that are used

49:12for our own local cider.

49:15Imagine if we did that, sold the apples to Scotland where they don't drink cider, and then Scotland sends us

49:25back their apples.

49:27Wouldn't that be a horrible idea?

49:30Who came up with that?

49:33Who came up with that?

49:34Why?

49:36Because also, what is Scotland using their apples for?

49:38They don't drink cider.

49:40That is true.

49:42And also, they already have some.

49:45Yeah.

49:45So-

49:46So why are you buying more if you have some already?

49:49And why are you selling it to us?

49:50Is it a cost thing?

49:51If we have some.

49:52Is it like a-

49:53Exactly.

49:54And that's how they explained it to me.

49:55They were like, that's how oil kind of flows.

49:59Because it's like, well, you have oil and I have oil.

50:01And we both, let's say, need oil to power grids.

50:05Then let's just use our own.

50:06We all talk about self-sufficiency and energy sovereignty.

50:10So, like, use your own.

50:13Emphasis on talk about.

50:16It's bizarre.

50:17It's absolutely bizarre to me.

50:19The economics don't make sense.

50:21Yeah.

50:22Well, it goes back to like-

50:23Or you could say, how about no apple?

50:26Yeah.

50:27Which is what Germany did.

50:28Like, what if we just don't want to eat?

50:31Yeah.

50:32Apple is your only food source.

50:34Apple is 70% of your food.

50:35And you just decide to throw it out into the ocean.

50:39Thanks, though.

50:40No more.

50:41I don't like this.

50:42Bit crazy.

50:43Bit crazy.

50:44I'd rather be 70% more hungry.

50:46Yeah.

50:47Which is bizarre.

50:50But, that is basically what I think about when I think of climate finance.

50:55It's like, yeah, the money, what's funding, the tech that Andres was talking about.

50:59But also, how are people getting helped or snuffed in this conversation?

51:04Right.

51:06Right.

51:06That's how I would explain it to a friend.

51:08Oh, my God.

51:09Yeah, that's good.

51:11That was good.

51:12Right?

51:12No, yours was really good, too.

51:14And if you guys, friends, didn't understand it, leave us some comments.

51:19You can also reach out to us on Tangelic Talks.

51:23We're on Instagram.

51:24And we're soon to be on TikTok as well.

51:27So, find us there.

51:28If you want to come on the pod to talk to us about any of the things that we presented

51:32today,

51:33you think we're misled or we don't understand something, got anything that you can clarify.

51:39Which is true.

51:39There's a lot of stuff we don't understand.

51:40If you're always true, please reach out to us at podcast at TangelicLife.org.

51:48And we'd love to have you on.

51:51And on the website, TangelicLife.org slash Tangelic Talks, you can find the blog with all

51:58the resources of the things we've been talking about today.

52:01If you want to fact check us or if you just want to learn more, please.

52:06And I think that's it.

52:07I think I've done all the plugs.

52:09Sure, okay.

52:10Yeah, we did it.

52:12We did it.

52:14We podcasted.

52:14How fun.

52:15We'll catch you guys on the next one.

52:37Tangelic Talks, energy, equity, pride, and power in the world side by side.

52:44A spark becomes a fire, a vision that's true.

52:47Together we rise.

52:49It starts with you.

52:50Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

52:57oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

52:57oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

Explained to a Friend — Climate Tech & Climate Finance: Carbon Capture, Hydrogen, Nuclear & The Money | S04E11

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