- 2 months ago
As brands evolve into ecosystems spanning products, services, and experiences, loyalty is no longer built through a single transaction but through continuous engagement. From media and hospitality to technology, leading companies are using data, AI, and multi-brand strategies to deepen consumer relationships and redefine long-term growth. What does it take to build loyalty across multiple touchpoints and brands? And as personalization scales through AI, how do companies preserve the human connection consumers still expect?
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TechTranscript
00:14Guys, I kind of want to dive in because we've got a lot to cover and we don't have a
00:18lot of time,
00:19and so we're going to try and be efficient.
00:22I kind of want to set the stage, although I think the stage is set already,
00:26but many of the world's most valuable companies are becoming ecosystems rather than standalone
00:32products. And, you know, I think that's because the relationship we're trying to build with our
00:38consumers is more than a single transaction. And I think that's kind of a base for this
00:43conversation. I want to start with Don. Don, when we're talking about building a relationship,
00:51and this is something you and I kind of focused on when we first got to know each other,
00:55uh, several years ago. And your dream really was from a branding standpoint with Snapdragon
01:04to create a relationship with the consumer. Absolutely. And, and it has something to do
01:09with your history of something else being inside. Right. And, um, I'll let the audience figure out
01:15what that is, but you had a, you had a mission and, and could you talk about that? Because that's
01:20where you're saying it's more than transactional. It's a relationship. Yeah. I mean, I think,
01:25uh, for any brand, no matter if you were, um, sort of more of an ingredient or more of a
01:30front
01:30facing brand, having a long-term relationship with your audience or consumer, your user, uh,
01:35your customer is super important. It's probably more important than ever, uh, as, um, you know,
01:42building trust and then turning that into loyalty. There's such a high value of that. Right. And when
01:48you're talking about most valuable companies or valuing a company or a brand, um, if you're purely
01:54transactional, it's really hard to determine what that value really is because you could lose that
01:58at any moment. But if you can show that you've built long-term relationships with your audience
02:02or your customer, um, there is true value in that. And, and that's measurable. So, uh, we, we set out
02:08ourselves on a journey with Snapdragon, uh, several years ago to take something that lives on the inside
02:13and make it important to people. Uh, and so far so good. Uh, I think we've made a lot of
02:19progress there.
02:19Um, and, uh, and so that's how we look at things. Um, and it's really a long-term because again,
02:26we live in the technology space. So having a relationship with technology is something that people
02:30have every day on an ongoing basis. You mentioned a word that I'm going to come back to. You mentioned
02:35trust in there, I think one or two times, because what I think I've stumbled on, maybe not, maybe I
02:42was
02:42intentional in it. Uh, the two most important words in our industry today. And when I describe
02:48our industry, I look at it through the lens of kind of the intersection of marketing, media,
02:52advertising, entertainment, sports, and technology. That's a very busy intersection, but there's a lot
02:58going on, but we'll come back to that. But the two words that seem to be most important are trust
03:03and
03:03transparency from a consumer relationship. Johnny, a core spans luxury lifestyle, premium,
03:12economy, along with dining, entertainment experiences. What creates that sense of
03:18connection? And before you answer that, I'm going to tell a little quick story. When I was young,
03:23I had some aspirations and the, one of them was when someone said, do you want to be famous? I
03:28said,
03:28with only two people. And they said, who's that? I said, the president of the bank and the concierge
03:34in the best hotels in the world. How am I doing? And I hope it's still the same. It's still
03:41the same.
03:42No, absolutely. I think the relationship with the concierge is critical if not only you want to
03:47have a good stay, but also, you know, something after the stay. And we'll talk about it. You know,
03:54there are more tools today, especially powered by AI, that helps us to enhance this relationship. But
03:58back to your question, I think what really unites and connects all the brands that acquire is,
04:04obviously, we're in the travel industry, is this sense of purpose. You know, we live in a very
04:10blessed industry in travel and leisure, because no matter, independently from the region where you
04:19live, the budget that you have, your social demographic, travel remains the number one
04:24need and desire for anyone, independently from their budget, after, you know, the necessity of
04:32food and lodging and health, right? So everybody wants to travel. So today, brands that are really
04:38able to connect are the brands that not only offer stays, but really offer something more deeply
04:45meaningful around purpose. At the end of the day, we try not to offer stays, but try to offer a
04:53sense
04:53in their lives. And it makes a difference. Here's the question. Have you perfected the ruby slippers yet?
05:01Can we just click our heels and get there or we still have to travel? There's a lot of innovations
05:06on Silpers, but people still ask for a sense of comfort. For sure. There you go. I think Elon's
05:12picking that up. Exactly. Alex, the New York Times has built products that people engage with every day
05:20for different reasons, multiple times a day. Information, entertainment, utility, wordle, ritual.
05:27What have you learned about creating that portfolio from a product perspective where each experience
05:33one plays off the next? It strengthens because, you know, the weakest link and all of that. So you
05:40have to make sure the experience at each one of those are delivering. It's a great question. So I want
05:47to start with the word ecosystem, which you used at the top, because we, for the last 10 to 15
05:52years,
05:53have really been trying to build out a very intentional product ecosystem, which we call
05:58the essential subscription. And the whole point is to work in spaces. News is the most important,
06:03but also games, sports, food and cooking, shopping, things that play into people's passions so that we
06:10can ultimately meet a range of news and life needs every single day that help people not only understand
06:15the world around them, but really act on it with intention and joy and purpose. And on one hand,
06:21each of these products is designed to really meet a certain set of needs. Like if you just come in
06:26for wordle and you want to play wordle and share it with your group chat and you're done, that's
06:31great. We'll start with the relationship there. But over time, what we want to do is build pathways
06:36back. So if you like wordle, maybe we'll bring you over to sports connections and then you can go
06:40check your world cup scores with the athletic. Then you might go listen to the daily with Michael
06:44Barbaro. And so we're really thinking about building a connected portfolio of products that has really
06:50intentional pathways and that has gravity and is all based on the premise and promise of
06:56independent journalism that is accurate, that you can't get anywhere else, and a really excellent
07:01product and software experience that is personalized and adds real value and utility. So you can act on
07:07that journalism in a way that works for your life. And in the customer relationship across the
07:13portfolio, creating habituation is the key, right? I mean, that's...
07:20Absolutely. And we made a pretty counterintuitive decision about 10 years ago. Most of our peers in
07:27the media industry, this was the Web 2.0 era of search and social, and they were unbundling their
07:32content and their products and services and trying to basically get audiences wherever they might be.
07:37And we made a very different decision where we said, we're going to be destination first and
07:42direct relationship first. And by doing that, we really decided to create enough gravity and original
07:48and distinct value that you can only get from us so that people actually have a reason to build a
07:53habit and they have a brand promise that we can deliver every single day. And we still, like every
07:58moment, every new product feature is about continuing to earn that trust and that loyalty. We build lifelong
08:04relationships. That's really at the core of our brand. Absolutely. Don, technology ecosystems create
08:11value through collaboration in many ways, culturally. Sure. And you've done that with Snapdragon
08:18particularly. But I guess my question would be, what makes an organization attractive to partner with
08:27Snapdragon? I mean, from the organization side and from your side, how do you judge that?
08:33Well, I think when you look at how to build this long-term relationship with your customer or your
08:40customer's customer in some cases, partnership is a critical piece of that mix. I think community is
08:46also a piece of that mix that goes beyond traditional sort of advertising methods or
08:52marketing methods. So when we were looking at how do we really build affinity for Snapdragon and create that
08:57stickiness that you were just talking about, it's, we had to do it through, we had to add some slices
09:02to the pie. And one of those slices was partnerships. And it's partnerships with our brand partners who
09:08utilize our technology to bring their value proposition to life, whether that's BMW, whether
09:13that's Samsung, whether that's, you know, LVMH, whoever that might be. We have some amazing brand partners,
09:19some of the biggest brands in the world that utilize our technology to actually enhance their value
09:24proposition, which is fantastic. So partnering with them is super important, but then also brand
09:29partnerships with people like Manchester United or Mercedes Formula One to explore and to connect
09:37what we do with people's passions, which also you just mentioned, because connecting through
09:41people's passions is a way to then tell your story in a way that's relevant to them. So partnerships are
09:46really important on two fronts for us. One is our customers and how they tell their story to their
09:51customers and how do we enhance that, do that together. And then partnerships that we form with
09:56the brand to then tell our story directly. And that's how we view partnership. And then it's a win-win
10:03in that case. It's a win-win for everybody. And I don't believe the consumer, including the consumer.
10:07But I also believe, I think historically some brands refused or were reluctant to share the
10:13spotlight with a partner for fear of dilution, of brand dilution. I think that's BS.
10:21Yeah. So do I, because I think it's, you know, in, in brand partnerships, it's like life we're known
10:27by the company we keep. Absolutely. And so from that perspective, you want to be aligned with things
10:33that represent the same values and all of that. But, but I agree with you. The consumer does look
10:37through that and say, is this real? Yeah. And the business back idea, this is, these are people
10:43who are using Qualcomm's products. Right. It makes perfect sense. Yeah. But you're creating that
10:48experience. Jean-Yves, travel, arguably back to my fantasies growing up, but travel creates some of
10:56the most memorable moments in a person's life. That's for sure. Those are highlights. You remember
11:00those trips, you think back to those trips and you, you transport yourself. How do you extend the
11:06relationship beyond the trip itself though, to keep that, keep it live? Yeah, absolutely. And,
11:13and we do it live through memories and pictures. How do you keep it live?
11:16Yeah. So there's definitely the trip itself, but there's a reality in travel. Usually you travel
11:23for, let's say a week or two. So it's very, very short. So how do you keep that relationship with
11:28that
11:29consumer? I would say it starts even before, before the memory. So before the trip, there's all this
11:35anticipation, you know, the booking, the finding out where you're going to, when you're going to
11:39travel. And that's where, you know, communication of the brand is, is essential. But your question
11:45is more about the after. How do you keep that relationship through memories? Well, again,
11:51because we're... To become part of the regular daily life.
11:54Absolutely.
11:55Because the travel is not every day.
11:57Absolutely.
11:57Although I feel like it is, but it's not every day.
11:59It's not every day because, you know, you stay in a hotel and then, and then that's it.
12:03So you come back. So how do we stay on top of mind and how do we stay meaningful in
12:08people's
12:09life? Well, I'll give you an example that what we've done on one of the largest mid-scale
12:15hospitality brands is called NovoTel. At NovoTel, we created the NovoTel 37 collective, which is a
12:23collective of different influencers. Why? Because the whole purpose of the NovoTel brand is to deliver
12:29and help people to achieve longer, fuller, healthier life. You know, that term of longevity
12:36is something that is extremely relevant in today's people's mind. So our philosophy is about longevity
12:44every day. So it's not about obviously discovering longevity when you stay at the hotel, through the
12:51food, through the sleep, through the connection that you have with your friends or family.
12:55But it's most importantly, how you keep that quest for longevity after the stay. And we have a
13:02philosophy at NovoTel, which is that's the 1% better. If you eat, 1% better. If you sleep, 1
13:10% better.
13:11If you move with intention, 1% better. And then if you have that social connection with your friends
13:18and family and colleagues, 1% better every single day, well, guess what? It compounds over time.
13:24The network effect is real.
13:26Exactly. And, you know, it's about math. So you might wonder why we called it 37, because
13:321% better every single day for 365 days a year equals to 37. It's just, I'm a math geek,
13:41so I love that.
13:42So we stay coherent with them, through influencers, sleep experts, culinary experts that provide tips
13:50on an everyday, mostly through social media, so that we keep that memory long, but also we help
13:56them to achieve longevity in the long run. Alex, as we said, the Times has a direct relationship
14:04with millions and millions of subscribers across multiple products. How do you use behavioral
14:11insights to make experiences more relevant without a big brother feeling, without people feeling like
14:19they're being observed? Which, by the way, we are, but how do I not feel that way?
14:25It's a fantastic question. So we design our products with such intentionality around the ethos
14:33of time well spent. And I know that's a term that we've been throwing around for the last 10 to
14:3820
14:38years. But if you actually go back to one of the best examples of time well spent with the New
14:43York
14:43Times, it goes back to 1942, where I don't know if, you know, many of you remember, but that was
14:49when
14:49we actually introduced the crossword for the first time. Even I don't remember that. I mean, I hope.
14:54But it was a couple weeks after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, World War II. And we had this moment
15:02where the country was going through such a dark period. And they wanted to reprieve. And we wanted
15:07to make sure that we could give people a way to do something different with their mind, but not turn
15:12their mind off. And so that ethos, which started with the crossword in print, has basically translated
15:17into every new game that we bring to market, every new podcast by a show who needs to have something
15:23worthwhile to say. And when we design our products, we design them to point you to things that matter
15:29for you or to be a part of a shared moment with the rest of the community of New York
15:33Times readers
15:33and subscribers and their designs that they have a beginning and an end. You come, you satisfy that
15:40need, and then you can go get on with your day. And that is actually one of the best brand
15:43promises
15:44that we find gives people a sense of trust that they are going to come back to the New York
15:48Times
15:48and that their time will be well spent.
15:49Well, and this is a question for all of you. Today, consumers are sharing more signals than ever before.
16:00What makes personalization feel more useful, timely, and welcome? I mean, you're getting the signals.
16:06I mean, Don, you know, you're seeing them. I mean...
16:09Absolutely.
16:10How do you successfully connect with the audience based on the signals you're getting? And this is a question
16:15for all of you, really.
16:16Well, I think it's never been more important, especially in the advent of not just AI, but agentic AI,
16:22that the personalization that we can deliver or we can enable people to have through technology
16:27is going to be super important. We call this concept the ecosystem of you.
16:31The ecosystem of you is really about how you use technology in your daily life, but how you keep that
16:36data set yours, right, and not gift it to the world, either mistakenly through a claw or whatever.
16:45But actually keeping that data close to you, private, secure, safe, but also allow this
16:51augmented intelligence that can be so useful and so helpful if used right to learn from you so that
16:58it can be more helpful, it can be more useful. And that's super personal. There's nothing more
17:02personal than that. So if we can create that environment for people where they feel safe,
17:07but they actually allow behavioral sort of companionship with AI in a way that allows it
17:15to be more and more useful, less prompt in response and more suggestive and anticipatory,
17:20then we think that that will be the ultimate in personalization as you move through your day and
17:26as you try to get things done, whether it's be more productive, more creative, entertain yourself
17:30or whatever that might be.
17:32So, Jean-Yves, in hospitality, relevance is shaped by more than demographics.
17:37Yeah.
17:38Okay. And with all the signals you're getting, are there particular signals that you pay more
17:42attention to than others in terms of, you know, what the consumer is looking for from a brand?
17:48And again, in your world, there are going to be certain things that a brand is looking for
17:52different than the New York Times and different than Qualcomm.
17:55Or maybe not.
17:56A comfortable night's sleep. Well, but a comfortable night's sleep isn't going to,
18:00hopefully the Times doesn't put me to sleep and hopefully...
18:04Well, they get the New York Times to fall asleep.
18:07A new meditation product coming soon.
18:10Yeah, totally. I mean, signals is something very important that we obviously look at. There's
18:15the first layer that is quite traditional, I would say, about demographics, right? The obvious,
18:20your man, your woman, your older, younger, et cetera. And we have fantastic tools to segment and target
18:28better. But where it gets really interesting and really fun, I would say, is the additional two
18:35layers. The next one is around behaviors. So, you might have a man coming and checking in in your
18:41hotel. He's a businessman. But behind that, and you know that, but behind that, it might be a father
18:49of two. He might want to stay over for the weekend with his family. He might be stressed because he's
18:54in a meeting and that's, you know, the meeting of his life. So, how do you use that data to
19:00actually
19:01deliver a better service on the spot in the hotel? So, that's the behavior that we're really trying to
19:08crack so that we help our staff deliver a superior service. And then there's the last one,
19:16which I like to, again, call it purpose. Because you might know all of the first two stages, right?
19:23Demographics and behaviors. But that person might be really interested in sustainability, might be very
19:30interested in sense of belonging, be it with friends or not, being isolated or not. So, this idea of
19:39going beyond just the state itself and connecting with the values of the people is something that AI is
19:46helping us to do more and more. And how does this translate in a state where if we know that,
19:52we know
19:53your preferences, we're going to be able to cater for a better state so that you have a more memorable
19:59state. But to that point, and it's a good transition, we've talked about understanding
20:05people. We all have to understand the consumers that we're interacting with. And I long ago gave
20:11up B2B or B2C. To me, it's B2H. It's business to human. And not in the agentic world, but still
20:18business to human. But what are you doing with that information to become part of the experience
20:25itself? I would look at you, Alex, and say, do you see AI creating entirely new experiences for
20:31readers? Or, I mean, how do you look at it from a product development perspective, not just from
20:37efficiency? Yeah, absolutely. You know, if I think about AI, like any really powerful technology,
20:45we are quite creative and quite strategic about how to use it. But we always point it in service
20:50of our mission, which is to seek the truth and to help people understand the world. And in terms of
20:55our essential subscription strategy and growth. So, it's not a separate strategy. It's not a separate
20:59roadmap. Everything is principled and guided through the lens of how we can unlock more
21:03mission-driven and ultimately kind of revenue growth and value for the company. And so, once you
21:09have those principles in place, in the newsroom, for instance, we have journalists who are using
21:14various LLMs to sift through giant data sets to uncover new lines of reporting that they will then go
21:20write themselves. Within our products, we use AI to make our coverage so much more accessible to more
21:27people. Our stories are now multimodal. You have audio, you have voice. We're really trying to meet
21:32people and consumers where they are. With brands, we've done a lot of really wonderful work to use
21:38models to basically take an individual brand message and to hyper-target it to the right audience
21:44against the right story at the right time. Because, again, this is where you can see very safe and
21:50responsible use cases that unlock so much value for consumers and for brands. So, there are a range of
21:55use cases, but they are guided by a set of ethical principles that we are very, very careful to
22:00implement. I don't know that I'd characterize it as a pet peeve, but it's something I've thought about
22:04for quite some time. The idea of the right article at the right time, and, you know, we all struggled
22:10for a long time to find the right context in the right moment on the right device to the right
22:14person
22:14to the right to the right to the right. We can't lose sight of the fact that in marketing,
22:20we need some surprise and delight. We don't always, you know, and I've told this story
22:27countless times, you know, auto manufacturers always say, I want to reach that consumer when
22:31they're in market. Yeah. How about when they're not in market and they see a beautiful picture of
22:36a new car and they go, you know, actually, maybe I do want a new car.
22:40But that is one of the things that we, I think, are really trying to balance. And I want to
22:45give us
22:46some credit because I think we're doing it well, where we have incredible editorial and creative
22:50judgment and taste that goes into curating and putting forward and pointing people towards things
22:55that matter because of the editorial and creative talent. We have 2,500 journalists who are tastemakers
23:02every single day who are trying to help create those moments of serendipity. And then we marry
23:06that with very careful privacy forward personalization to also make sure that the other things that we know
23:12you like, we can help you find them at the right time. But it's a balance between that shared experience
23:16so you feel like you're a part of something with a collective and also something that feels like it's
23:20deeply useful to you. And consumers, I'm sure you're seeing this, they want more control.
23:25There's definitely been a backlash against full algorithmically curated feeds. And so how do you make
23:30sure that you're putting your customer and your audience in a sense where they have agency, their data is being
23:36used with real care and really privacy safe mechanisms. And it's a very interesting and kind of important part of
23:44brands who have any sort of trust with their audiences.
23:48Go ahead, Don. Were you going to say something?
23:50No, no. Absolutely.
23:52Johnny, we talked about AI and the guest experience, but the opportunity to do things in real time
24:00is extraordinary from that perspective. So let's just say you said the business person shows up at
24:06the hotel, they're there for the business meetings, but then the weekend will be with their family.
24:11AI would probably be able to tell you all of that. So when I checked into my hotel the other
24:16day,
24:17AI would be able to tell the experience, the registration that I'm here for a conference.
24:23AI would know that. Is that happening real time? Just curious. I mean, is somebody doing a search
24:33of a guest who's checking in? Because they could find out so much on the spot in real time.
24:39So I wouldn't say in real time, because there's still, you know, AI is still for all the industries
24:45everywhere. Real time is a figure of speech in this case.
24:48Let's face it. It's still, there's still a lot to do. And thanks, Scott. But no, I mean,
24:53systems exist already where we know a lot about consumers, just like any other industry, you know,
24:59we use our data. What do they say in financial services? KYC, know your client? Exactly. Yeah,
25:05yeah, yeah. But what is important to remember is, again, in the hospitality, what matters is that
25:13human connection. So we use data and AI to process this data, to deliver digestible information for
25:23the staff, we call them heartists, so that they can execute a better service. So it's not AI to
25:29replace, but it's AI to power up, to enhance. At the end of the day, in our industry, at least,
25:35at Accor specifically, AI is invisible in order to really power up the work of the heartists.
25:44We don't want heartists to spend hours on trying to process data. We know that today, we still have
25:50a lot of opportunities when it comes to check-in, you know, still lengthy, et cetera, and very legal.
25:56But we want to ease up that so that we can focus more on what matters, which is that human
26:02connection. And as you said, Michael, surprise and delight, because at the end of the day,
26:07that's, you know, we're creating joy in hospitality. So the surprise and delight is really at the heart
26:14of it. If you can take anticipating needs, right, and then delivering on that, that's a surprise and
26:21delight. That's the holy grail. Right? That's the holy grail. Yeah. Alex, and I guess this is really a
26:26question for everybody, but, you know, loyalty is often measured through behavior, but belonging is
26:33even harder to measure. How do you know when people feel connected to what you're building? I mean,
26:40I love this question. I guess by utilization, but... We do, but I think there's a much broader
26:46ecosystem level shift that's happening right now. And I'm sure you're all feeling it as much as I am
26:52personally, where at least half of what I see and touch and read on the internet is human-generated
26:59or touched, or sorry, is machine-generated or touched by AI in some shape, way, or form.
27:04And so what I... Did you say machine-generated, touched by AI? Yes. And so some things are,
27:09you know, purely synthetic or some things have been, you know, slightly touched in hands. Exactly.
27:15Choose the right word. But what I do think it means is that people are having
27:21a harder time understanding what is real, what isn't. And there is really a deeper connection
27:28that is being formed to brands that people trust and where they know that they can always come
27:33and have reliable, accurate, you were saying it, human-made expertise and judgment that is going
27:40to give you a predictable set of value. For us, it's around news, sports, cooking, games, shopping,
27:46but it really starts, I think, with that brand promise where you know that every single time
27:50you're going to come and get original human-made expert journalism that you can't get anywhere
27:54else. And then around that, we really try to create a lot of emotional and utilitarian connection
28:01and value by making sure that our products are... It's not a magical concept. You need good products
28:06that are more distinct than anything else that's on the market. And when those two things combine,
28:11I actually feel like branded destinations that have real value and real trust, people are going to
28:17seek them out by name, especially when things are more confusing and more chaotic across the rest of
28:22the internet. And then build community around that. And absolutely. And that is where, again,
28:25this human connection, you can deal with a bunch of AIs, or you can actually come to engage,
28:31in our case, it's with expert journalists, other readers, other listeners, other viewers who want to be
28:37a part of something shared together. And this, in the hospitality industry,
28:41translates into what you said about belonging. So obviously, we're all seeking loyalty, coming back
28:46to a hotel, etc. But what is even more powerful is when you have a guest that engages with your
28:52values
28:53as a brand, and starts to really, you know, take care of the communities that are local around the
29:00hotel, take care of the environment, and really, you know, start to participate, learning craft,
29:05discovering through food and beverages. So for our brands, you know, that being an and in the local
29:11community is very important. And that's, I think, the next generation of loyalty, is that sense of
29:18belonging, participating, and doing something for the greater good. Do not undervalue the power of
29:24community. We have to overvalue it, because it matters. And you know, the cultural zeitgeist is influenced by
29:34the community, but the community creates the cultural zeitgeist. I said at the beginning,
29:40we were going to come back to the word trust. We've obviously used it many times. And as I said,
29:47trust and transparency go together in the consumer's mind today. The other two words that go together in
29:54the consumer's mind are content and commerce. You rarely hear the word commerce any longer,
29:59not modified by the word content. Just across the three of you, I mean, Alex, I'm looking at you,
30:06so I'll ask you first. Content, creating content. Obviously, the New York Times began as a print
30:13vehicle. It does so much more. You're creating content all the time. It's driving commerce.
30:20It is. And I would say what we're trying to do is make sure that our
30:24journalism, we have a diversity of entry points into the journalism now. And we're trying to show the
30:28journalism with reporters on camera, through voice, through all of these mediums that create
30:34real authentic connections. And what we're finding is the more that we can give people entry points
30:39into the journalism in a way that maybe a printed article was, there's a little too much friction
30:42to your point back in the day. We're able to drive a lot of engaged audiences. And that engaged audience
30:49is essentially the fuel that drives our subscription business, our advertising business,
30:53our commerce business through shopping and kind of other affiliate lines, and then also a growing
30:59licensing business. And so for us, it always really starts with building excellent journalism-based
31:05products that are so distinct that you can't get anywhere else. And if people build those habits,
31:10it basically does unlock a pretty resilient and diverse set of revenue streams that we really can
31:16kind of nurture. And they complement each other. They don't conflict with each other.
31:19They work together. Yeah. I mean, you also have to remember what you're, what you're trying to do,
31:24right? What action are you trying to actually get out of your audience or your, right? So the content
31:30is not just about the content, right? It's about context, relevance, when the timing of that, because
31:38you know, if you're, if you're just trying to throw something out there and let it simmer,
31:43right? That's a different exercise. Then I want to drive a transaction. I want to get someone all
31:49the way through to a purchase. I want to provide that commerce piece of the entire equation. So I
31:54think understanding that, because I think a lot of people don't understand that. And it's not just
31:59okay to say, well, content commerce together. So without it, you're, you know, you're going to be
32:06disconnected. I think you can throw, you can be content folk forward without actually wanting to drive
32:12commerce. Absolutely. At that moment. It just really depends. I know at times I'll be super quick.
32:18I think in a world where content creation grows faster than attention span,
32:24I think we need to be really relevant and meaningful. That's all. Absolutely. Jean-Yves,
32:31Alex, Don, I want to thank you for your time. And I want to thank all of you for your
32:35attention.
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