BEYOND THE HEADLINES

CCNTV6

A resignation letter sends shockwaves through T&T's media landscape.  Former Guardian Media investigative journalist Joshua Seemungal alleges ethical failings, conflicts of interest, preferential treatment, editorial interference and a breakdown of trust within one news organization.  His departure has reignited difficult questions about journalism itself.  How should newsrooms manage conflicts of interest? What safeguards are needed to protect editorial independence? Can public confidence survive when allegations of political influence emerge? And where should the line be drawn between perception and reality when it comes to media bias?  Joining us tonight is veteran journalist and media executive Sunity Maharaj as we examine the issues at the heart of the controversy and what they mean for the future of journalism in Trinidad and Tobago.  This is Beyond the Headlines with Urvashi Tiwari Roopnarine.

Transcript

00:12a resignation letter sends shockwaves through tnt's media landscape former guardian media

00:18investigative journalist joshua simungal alleges ethical feelings conflicts of interest

00:23preferential treatment editorial interference and a breakdown of trust within one news

00:29organization his departure has reignited difficult questions about journalism itself how should newsroom

00:36manage conflicts of interest what safeguards are needed to protect editorial independence

00:41can public confidence survive when allegations of political influence emerge and where should

00:47the line be drawn between perception and the reality when it comes to media bias joining us

00:53tonight is veteran journalist and media executive suniti maharaj as we examine the issues at the

00:59heart of the controversy and what they mean for the future of journalism in tnt i'm urvashi

01:05to worry rupin ryan this is beyond the headlines suniti thank you so much for joining us and of course

01:09coming here in person thank you i'm happy to be here actually this is an important issue

01:18so of course his last resignation letter has generated significant public discussion what was your reaction

01:25when you first read sad you know the parentheses plus a shahs plus a mem shahs this is so much

01:37a repeat

01:37of an experience that i have added at gml 30 years ago and i have followed joshua's career i've read

01:48i've been impressed

01:50by his diligence his actual interest in investigative journalism there are not many journalists who are

01:56actually willing to take a story and without being fed carry it to a logical end where it can actually

02:03get on

02:04be published um so i mean i've been one silently encouraging from the sidelines i've even encouraged

02:13people to try to recruit him because you know he he has the potential uh so it was sad and

02:21um

02:23well i wait to hear what if there is any defense if there is any rebuttal whatever that flows from

02:31from

02:32that letter should we have heard from guardian media by now yes because these are quite damaging allegations

02:39against an editor and a managing editor and possibly the board because this letter refers to dealing with

02:47the desk editor the managing editor the next level is a member of the board i didn't see in the

02:55letter

02:55that he said he made a report to the board but that he spoke to the director um and one

03:01would imagine

03:02that an issue as important that goes to the heart of journalism as what he is alleging would be taken

03:11up or he would be asked to send a letter or the managing editor would be called in to explain

03:18what's

03:19going on to find out if she's on top of it um you know get to the heart of the

03:23matter is there validity

03:24in these claims or not now you did reflect on an incident you were involved in 30 years ago i'm

03:31not

03:31familiar would you care to just and isn't that the interesting thing that uh someone of your generation

03:38would not know something like that um that was this um i had not too long gone to the guardian

03:46as a

03:46uh what called functional news editor and out of the blue basio pande who had just been elected

03:56alleged racism maxi coffee was the editor-in-chief at the time managing editor i guess um and he was

04:03also um the president of mat and you know i couldn't figure out where this came from this allegation

04:11based on a an inform a headline that has become infamous chutney rising

04:16okay yes i i'm familiar with it but i didn't know that that you would well i well i very

04:21quickly

04:21decided i will there was a mat um election due and i said i will i will run you're talking

04:27about reese

04:28i will run as president i became president um the matter that was dealt that was at the center of

04:36of

04:36discussion was a news article and the poor sub-editor who wrote that thought he was actually playing with

04:43pan rising and that it was a lovely headline about chutney because soon after panda came to office the

04:49most popular songs were lotela and then later on jihadjibai and everybody regardless it united the

04:57country after an initial hesitation because the pm rule had been broken this was the first indian indo

05:04trinidadian prime minister and there was reservation and then but you know panda charmed people

05:11and everybody was was dancing you know and um so where did this come from and i there was nothing

05:18to be to make me think that that was anything but a laudatory headline that a sub-editor felt but

05:27it

05:27was picked on as a a racist thing and it went from bad to worse and um the prime minister

05:34demanded the

05:35dismissal of the editor-in-chief jones b madera um and the managing i'm going to cut it short which

05:41is

05:41the managing director olvin chow refused with the full support of the editorial team not to fire

05:48and for his defiance he was fired by sabga mr sabga and as he was fired i promptly phoned the

05:58media

05:59myself and said there's a press freedom issue happening here and i write i wrote my resignation

06:04and several editors left now the guardian went to a very traumatic period it was a massive national boycott

06:11of readers and advertisers and um you know we left and started a little weekly paper and so on so

06:17that

06:18is a that sort of mirrors in people's mind i was about to ask what are the similarities is it

06:23that

06:24you think in that situation and in joshua's situation an ethical position was taken yeah well

06:30there's there's a difference he is talking about an ongoing problem he has been having with an editor

06:36in the guardian we did not have a problem with jones madera in fact anyone who knows jones madera knows

06:44that he would have quickly found his his feet and would have been nothing but courteous to the government

06:52he is he was not a defiant you know personality um and so we were dealing directly with the owner's

07:04decision um that in my in our view caved to political interference there wasn't a problem with

07:13the editor-in-chief so in that case the newsroom was not insulated no it wasn't in fact that you

07:18just

07:19found out about the power of the owner the publisher and it you know i've since formed a view that

07:25a

07:26conglomerate that has to um depend on government for all kinds of things licenses approvals and there

07:34was it turned out there was a major issue that that group had with the with one of its projects

07:41that

07:42was being um that seemed to have fallen or foul of planning regulations and so some screws are being

07:49turned and so on um and so you business was chosen as the first priority the newsroom would have to

07:59comply and of course that was um not on so getting back to joshua simungal's situation his letter

08:07raised concerns about conflicts of interest editorial independence and newsroom culture

08:13why have these allegations resonated so deeply with the public

08:19because

08:23trust in the media has fallen so precipitously not just in the media every in every institution

08:31the judiciary i think the last time there was some kind of um survey it was like 15 percent well

08:38i'm

08:38sure everybody's below 15 percent right now you know and um the kind of environment that we encountered in

08:461996 was if there is a semblance of attack on the media the public rally to the media and that

08:56was the

08:57safeguard you know um but so much has happened since then and and i think the catalog of of challenges

09:04and problems and so on the media has become a bully people don't even wait to think through the issue

09:12they beat it up and it has it tends to be divided along the lines of pro-government anti-government

09:22so right now it's the unc supporters who will probably be bashing him no not supporting him

09:30and if it if the shoe were on the other foot he'd be supported so it's um but but there

09:36are a lot of

09:36reasons for that and i think that is what you'd like to explore tonight what has happened to the media

09:40as an institution that in a matter where someone is saying that on ethical grounds uh i'm standing for

09:48this position and would normally be hailed as you know this is an upstanding journey this is the this

09:55the kind of person that we want and this is without having heard the other side i have to add

10:00um

10:02that there is so much it's division over what should be a click of this

10:08should should really be click click what how damaging can can these allegations of conflict of

10:14interest be to this media organization even though even before that they're proven or disproven

10:21what is damaging to all to the media it plays into the narrative that the media is for seal

10:30that the media is um outside influences the power you are a puppet on a string it plays into that

10:37narrative

10:38and that you can't be trusted and that people are always looking for what is behind that story you're

10:43writing that story that you publish why did why did you do a pro-government or an anti-government story

10:49because everything is judged nobody nobody listens to the actual detail they listen to find out are you

10:55coming from pro-government or anti-government and then they stop listening it's just cynical right so

11:01the how that's that you how that has come to be is really a long story that goes back in

11:07my view to at least

11:08the 1980s um i was a cub reporter when i observed what i think is the first time

11:20a political party um

11:23in no we have always we had government at the time the pnm administration there for so long from 1956

11:29so there is a a notion of the pnm as status quo the williams administration not even so much as

11:36the

11:36pnm as the williams administration and dr williams was a quite a dominate and dominated dominating

11:42figure in the in the country's life um and so there was let us not forget that dr williams was

11:51the one it was the first person who took the garden and burnt it in woodford square as one of

11:55the

11:55enemies because it was to him the bastion of the colonial regime anti-people anti-black

12:04and you know so on and so forth so we've had a tradition with the guardian um all governments

12:11have attacked both newspapers but the guardian had that very clear moment in history with dr williams

12:17we had the moment with mr pandy and now we have the moment with mrs pesad de sessa and

12:26they it was in i think 19 maybe 80 81 when the onr was coming up it's the first time

12:33that organized

12:36public relations got into the media where someone is has been hired by a political party and press

12:45releases would be sent to you um reporting on a meeting that you weren't even invited to and

12:51saying how many people were there and i remember and it was done by a company called pr counselors

12:58and i remembered a reporter saying that the figure in that company came and brought it and said

13:06you know you could put your name on that story if you want that was such an outlandish idea that

13:14a

13:14journalist would would want to do that and from that period we we've had a definite infiltration

13:22of uh interests um moneyed interests um virtual buying of people people who have agendas right

13:33and it is not just a normal what we got in the williams administration was censorship in the 70s

13:40in particular after the black power movement of you know people he had brought in james alva bain

13:46as a chairman of ttt and he proceeded to ban a number of figures we went to the 1976 election

13:54with leaders who had political parties bastio pandy rafik shah who was with the ulf both of them

14:00george weeks was all three were banned from ttt until after the election can you imagine that today

14:08so we had censorship because it was one tv station totally you know and government influence but

14:15print then the express is coming up by that period and then we had the bomb and subsequently the mirror

14:20and everything changed but then we went now into influence external influence into the newsroom

14:30so now we see when we read about press freedom the three um organizations who should not own media

14:39houses are religious organizations private sector and government but unfortunately that is the reality

14:45that we live in but why would you say religious organizations shouldn't do well from a global

14:50perspective no i think people can own things and they can say this is my interest this is what i

14:55do but

14:56no matter what you own you have values that you subscribe to and i would go to it knowing that's

15:03a

15:04you know religious station but the truth never changes the idea of being part of a nation we are a

15:12secular

15:13democracy right no one religion we do come from um you know colonial heritage of where the church the catholic

15:22church and the what you would call the state was water and we've had to wean ourselves out of that

15:28when

15:28the mahasabba went to the privy council for example in trying to get a and the privy council ruled in

15:35its

15:35flavor that it's favor that it should get a license it was because it had to recognize that this is

15:41not a

15:41christian country this is a secular democracy and although the constitution talks about being you know god the

15:48presence of god that does that does not make the country a religious country of you know of any

15:54particular any one right so um what we what you and i what we call journalism these are national media

16:04um and the remit and mandate and um that we try to carry through is we serve the public's right

16:16to

16:16know which is a critical function in a democracy how else do you know anything or do you form an

16:24opinion

16:25or do you participate in the governing of your country and having a say if you don't have some way

16:31of knowing so the the public right to know is it is the first thing um and that will it

16:38expands into

16:39things like a watchdog on institutions and state and so on um and and that is what we wake up

16:45every

16:46morning that's the remit so the question is to what extent is that happening is that is that what

16:57is going on in newsrooms who actually is in charge uh you will hear the voices that say well it

17:04is the

17:04people of money um the people who have um bought of journalists the you know all their genders except the

17:13right to know and i think when something like what has happened to him the question is first of all

17:21i am i am assuming that by the time you get to the point of resigning is because you have

17:27a paper trail

17:28you have brought this problem up in the channels you have not been heard you've come to the conclusion

17:35that i can't continue um joshua should be here you know he should be available and ready to speak

17:44because he put up he put out a cryptic post the people won't show exactly i mean once you say

17:50ethical

17:50you know there's a there's a problem but and then the resignation started circulating so we got details

17:58and there are a lot of allegations in that and if they are not true if it can not be

18:04proven remember he

18:05who accuses in me you are the one you have to prove right then one would one would wait to

18:10hear

18:11from the aggrieved party right i mean he can claim for example because of that i could not fulfill my

18:18work and i i have def i've been constructively dismissed even though i had i had to resign i had

18:22no choice and that person may say you have misunderstood everything right this is we don't jump to the

18:29conclusion one way or the other that those are a set of allegations put on a table for us to

18:32look at

18:33and this is why i don't think that the option is available to the editor to the managing editor to

18:41the board and to the owner to just let attendees pass and move on as normal unless you don't care

18:50what strikes at the heart of of the mandate that you have but then what about the other people who

18:55employ there what about the impact on the rest of the profession as you mentioned senator the entire

19:03media has been cast into this but you will hear them say all the journalists all the journalists you

19:10know that's right we've got to take a short break coming up after the break we examine the difficult

19:15questions at the heart of modern journalism can journalists ever be truly objective how should media

19:20houses handle political affiliations and perceived bias and what are the safeguards needed to protect

19:26editorial independence stay with us welcome back to beyond the headlines we're talking media we're

19:36talking perceived bias and we're talking about the future of the industry joining me is suniti maharaj

19:41a veteran journalist suniti i didn't realize that so much time has flown so let's get into it matt says

19:48journalism must remain beyond suspicion how important is perception in journalism and can a newsroom

19:55remain credible if they are unresolved questions like these about conflicts of interest

20:04well a newsroom might be a target and focus of attack there may be individuals who escape because i mean

20:11you as a journalist you build your own relationship with the public and your work if it stands up it

20:17stands

20:17up if it doesn't stand up but all of these issues that have been raised in the math statement

20:25are issues that are dealt with in the editorial policy and principles of that is available i think every

20:35media house has one i know one caribbean media has that we do the question the point is that the

20:41this is

20:42never enforced i routinely look at the media and i can tell you almost every um principle of ethics

20:51of sources of verification it's every day they're transgressed and that and one of the reasons reasons

21:00like conflict of interest moving into a political party coming back to work um being asked to do private

21:07work a lot of journalists are doing private work but that is because they're not paid properly in the

21:11first place right but excuse me but even if you're not paid properly yes it ought not to be done

21:20you

21:20just if you can't afford to be in this profession which is one of the professions you like teaching

21:25it's you know it's a calling you you have to move on if you can't afford it you know it

21:30just find

21:31something that pays you more but this it has become part and parcel of the media that everybody's on a

21:37side hustle some people are doing pr and they're in newsrooms that is just a no-no but managements know

21:43that but they turn a blind eye because they don't want to pay they can't pay they're not the business

21:49is not and and the business is becoming increasingly uneconomical because the media in trinidad and tobago

21:57have not changed they have not adapted to changing realities and we've already seen one newspaper go

22:05you know and yeah what you're hoping one of them will remain standing at least um

22:13so that's another whole question about the technology the change in markets the economic

22:17model of the media the failure of management in my view largely management to meet the challenge of the

22:24times now i have to reflect a little bit when we were talking about guardian media um what happened

22:30while you were there 30 years ago and you did hint that um i went city board the owners private

22:38sector

22:38they took a decision and that would that trickle down to the newsroom so the newsroom wasn't insulated

22:43how likely is it that in this situation the owners did not know about the moves of of this editor

22:52who went

22:53into politics in the background and came back how likely is it that they did not well the owner doesn't

22:59have to know because the owner is not in the in the building every day it could stop right between

23:04the reporter and and the editor it could just be that we are talking but i have never escalated it

23:10he says he did he escalated it okay did that editor deal with the problem to the satisfaction of saying

23:19did she deal with it to the point where she says your complaint is not valid in which case he's

23:25not accepting

23:26that right um or did she bring it to the attention of the board so i can't tell you know

23:34if the board

23:34knows about it if it didn't then then it now has an opportunity to ask questions how how do you

23:41think

23:41that that this will pan out we only have about 30 seconds left well from what happened 30 years ago

23:47they lie low and just wait for it wait for it wait for another 10 they wanted to turn up

23:53you know but

23:54i wish him well i wish but i hope that we do find out the truth of this matter and

24:00that will be up to

24:01the public up to the it's also up to the of the journalists you should people here should be picking

24:06up the phone asking him to come on the program doesn't matter what media house he's in he should make

24:11himself available because this is a public issue this is not an industrial relations issue this is

24:18not an employer employee this is a public interest issue and he should have every opportunity and the

24:26person the editors in the guardian and the owners people should be on the phone calling them all the

24:30time thank you very much for joining us sanity marriage thank you once again for coming in person

24:35of course joshua c monger's was a resignation that has sparked a conversation

24:43that has sparked a conversation that extends far beyond one newsroom or one journalist at its core

24:49questions about ethics transparency accountability and trust the very principles upon which journalism

24:55depends whether one agrees or disagrees with the concerns raised the debate has highlighted the critical

25:02role of a free independent and credible media place in a democratic society thank you for joining us on beyond

25:09the headlines

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