00:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:02Mr. Duncan, just listening to your responses to Senator Moreno,
00:05I can tell you that the people who are waiting in long lines at Social Security regional offices
00:13don't think things have gotten more efficient.
00:16You're aware of the fact that the IRS has warned that this year's tax season was at risk due to
00:21staffing shortages.
00:22Are you aware of that fact?
00:24Senator, obviously we're trying to...
00:26I'm just asking you if you're aware of that fact, that they warned that this year's tax season efficiency
00:31was at risk because of staffing shortages.
00:34Are you not aware of that?
00:35I'm not aware of the exact item you're referring to.
00:37I'm happy to take a look at it if it's in front of you.
00:39But obviously everything that we are doing is toward a commitment for efficiency for the American people.
00:44Well, in fact, you've had to rehire people who were fired at the IRS.
00:48That doesn't sound like it's more efficient to me.
00:52The same is true at FEMA.
00:53FEMA reinstated fire disaster response personnel ahead of the hurricane season because they were unprepared.
01:00Were you aware of that fact?
01:03Senator, I'm not aware of this specific thing.
01:05That would be a FEMA-related item that I've had.
01:08A lot of this, of course, feeds up through the OMB.
01:10The same is true of the National Weather Service.
01:13GSA cited staffing shortages on mission-critical needs.
01:17Were you aware of that?
01:18I'd have to defer to the National Weather Service on that item.
01:20By early this year, an estimated 25,000 federal employees have been rehired after being initially terminated.
01:29Do you know how much that's cost the taxpayer, rehiring the same people who were in the job before?
01:35Senator, I don't have an estimate in front of me, but we're always working to optimize staffing levels.
01:40Well, I have an estimate from the Partnership for Public Service.
01:42They're a nonpartisan entity.
01:44They say just that process of having to go through rehiring the same people that were fired cost the taxpayer
01:50$12 million.
01:51That doesn't sound more efficient to me.
01:54Mr. Duncan, your boss at OMB, Director Vogt, has said, quote,
02:02when civil servants wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work because they
02:07are increasingly viewed as the villains.
02:10He went on to say, and I quote, we want to put them in trauma, unquote.
02:15Do you see merit-based civil servants as the villains?
02:21Senator, first, Director Vogt has addressed that quote multiple times in this committee.
02:26I'm asking you what you believe.
02:27Do you believe civil servants are the villains?
02:30As I mentioned in my testimony, I think the OMB civil servants, who are the ones I work most closely
02:35with,
02:35as well as Director Vogt, who has a wonderful relationship with those civil servants,
02:39are among the best and brightest in the federal government.
02:41Excellent.
02:42So you don't want to put them in trauma, do you?
02:45Senator, that quote you're referring to, Director Vogt has addressed.
02:48It's related to certain bureaucracies in the federal government.
02:52It's just a question for you, not for Mr. Vogt.
02:55Do you want to put federal employees in trauma?
02:57Yes or no?
02:58Senator, you're directly referring to-
03:01I'm asking what your view is.
03:02Do you think it's a good idea to put federal employees in trauma?
03:05I work very well with the civil servants at OMB.
03:08The quote that you're referring to was a reference to weaponized bureaucracies.
03:13Mr. Duncan, I'm asking you right now what your view is.
03:16Do you want to put federal employees into trauma?
03:17Yes or no?
03:18Senator, like I said, I completely support the civil servants that work at OMB.
03:22And that quote that you're referring to has been taken out of context.
03:26I was asking you, so it's interesting you don't want to provide a direct answer.
03:30So listen, Senator Murray and others have raised concerns about this new proposal
03:36to completely politicize the grant-making process, the update to uniform guidance.
03:43I hope people can understand that coming from an administration that wants to create a slush fund
03:52to use taxpayer dollars to make payouts to individuals convicted of assaulting Capitol Police on January 6th.
03:59The idea of further politicizing the grant process is really, really alarming.
04:06And I know this is in process.
04:08I want to talk to you about another political effort going on to make sure that you want to replace
04:13about 8,000 merit-based civil servants
04:16with political appointees.
04:19You want to make 8,000 positions at will.
04:21And I was just looking through the OMB list here, people who would now be made at will.
04:29One of those senior policy analysts, positions of physical scientists.
04:33Why do you want to make that into a political position?
04:38Senator, I appreciate the question.
04:39And I think both the updates to 2CFR and the schedule policy career are about one thing, and that's accountability.
04:47So as it relates to the individuals placed in schedule policy career, it's fundamentally about ensuring that they're delivering on
04:54the job.
04:54So if a physical scientist is providing a factual assessment to folks at OMB and the political folks there don't
05:04like their assessment,
05:06that person will now be able to be fired.
05:08Isn't that right?
05:08Senator, that is not at all what the goal of the...
05:11Isn't that right, though?
05:12You will make them at will as opposed to having any merit-based protections.
05:17Isn't that what you're going to do?
05:18Senator, the goal of the proposal is to ensure that the individuals implicated are delivering the highest level of services
05:25for the American people.
05:27Yep.
05:28I see under senior policy analysis you've got a toxicologist, you've got a physical scientist.
05:33I would just say to our colleagues, you're going down a very dangerous road here by taking these positions that
05:40have been merit-based career positions
05:43and turning them into political positions subject to politicization in these positions.
05:51It is a very bad idea, and I hope you will reconsider.
05:55Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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