00:00Well, for more on this, I spoke with the Pakistani senator, Anwar al-Hakkar, who has also served as a
00:05caretaker, prime minister of his country.
00:08The timeline, I'm pretty sure if someone is familiar with the Iranian side, if they've worked with them,
00:15they're very cautious about the punctuation of the language, about the full stops and the commas and what sort of
00:23implications it would have,
00:24because they presume they are the more vulnerable side and the other side can violate and can easily defy any
00:33agreement.
00:34So that sense of insecurity appears to be more on that side.
00:39They're quite focused on the language and its implication to keep their legal and ethical position quite explicit.
00:48And this is probably one of the reasons that they're taking more time.
00:52We have been here before, though, haven't we? It has felt like we've been here before.
00:57What is different this time that, as you say, we should be expecting a deal will be signed, even if
01:03it's just a matter of timing at the moment?
01:04What has changed to make it look more successful this time?
01:11Well, I think so.
01:13The difference is that even before that relatively lull period of almost two months, both sides reverted to the violence
01:26for a while.
01:27The American side and the Iranian side, after the hitting of that departure.
01:31And both haven't again gone back to that stalemate position or a status quo position that they're not reverting to
01:43the violence.
01:44And now, after that, going back again, the talk about the great deal or the big deal is appearing in
01:55open trust and in the media from both sides.
01:57That's why I feel I'm more hopeful and it is different this time that a small violent experiment of a
02:07day or a few hours or whatever it was has given a strong signal to both sides that they cannot
02:15afford a protracted war, a perpetual war.
02:19So, eventually, there have to come some sort of terms and agreement, peaceful one.
02:25So, that realisation seems to be quite deep-rooted this time, which would make the difference.
02:31And, Senator, what guarantees do you think then will both sides need to move forward to completion of a deal?
02:38And are they achievable?
02:40And will they be still tricky to overcome at the last minute?
02:47Well, to be honest with you, if you keep the last hundred years or even go beyond that, the guarantees
02:56between the warring factions have never been tangible.
02:59It's the trust between the fighting parties.
03:02It's such an ironical situation that you fight your foe, you kill one another, and then you have to rely
03:10and trust each other not to kill one another.
03:12And trust probably is the biggest guarantor in such situations.
03:20There are international mechanisms.
03:23There are international, probably, frameworks where the states and the governments do rely on that.
03:32But, eventually, look at the Treaty of Versailles.
03:37It was signed during the First World War and the Second World War, what happened, all the guarantees were just
03:45washed away.
03:47And the warring factions or the governments or the nations, again, were putting guns at each other's head.
03:56So, having said this, I think so, both the parties have realized, the Americans, the Iranians, and the rest of
04:04the region,
04:05that violence and war probably is not an option for the region, for the regional stability, for the economic prosperity,
04:16not just of the region, but beyond.
04:18So, I think so.
04:18So, I think so.
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