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00:00It's a big old statement, and it leads to an even bigger issue, okay?
00:08All right.
00:08So the Giants are getting kind of whacked around at home again by the Nationals,
00:14and I just cannot, I'm having a hard time containing my excitement about Bryce Eldridge.
00:21Like, I'm not here to do a coronation.
00:23I'm not here to tell you, like, he's the next big thing or whatever.
00:27I'm just here to tell you how overwhelmingly excited I am
00:33that I think the San Francisco Giants have a homegrown offensive potential star,
00:41and I don't think it's too early to use that word
00:45as long as you put the word potential in front of it
00:47because it's not the big things.
00:50It's the little things.
00:51It's not just the power.
00:54It's not just the way the ball jumps off of the bat.
00:56It's a lot of the things that you just said.
00:59He's improving at first base rapidly.
01:01I mean really rapidly.
01:03His command of the strike zone, he's taking walks way better than any other Giant,
01:09and he has the biggest strike zone.
01:12So his barrel rate is through the roof.
01:17Like, I have no hesitation in saying this.
01:20He missed the first bit of the season, but guess what?
01:23This dude's in the rookie of the year race.
01:26You better believe that.
01:28He is in this race because he now has an absolute everyday spot in this lineup,
01:35and he has the ability to win that award.
01:3921.
01:40Yeah, and it's only early June.
01:43So, like, we could say, oh, it's not that early anymore for the Giants in their hopes,
01:48but as far as rookie of the year and a guy who is just now coming up
01:52and getting regular playing time and showing this plate discipline,
01:56this occasional power, which I think will get more frequent,
01:59and also the ability to hit it to all fields,
02:01he absolutely has a chance to get into the mix for that award.
02:05So check this out.
02:06I think it's very, very – these are big words now.
02:12We love Dave Fleming.
02:13He came on with the Joes earlier this morning, as he does every single week,
02:18and let's spotlight first what he had to say about Bryce Eldridge.
02:24This is what he talked about first.
02:26They have something very special on their hands.
02:28Like, this kid hasn't even begun to tap into all the ability level.
02:32Like, right now what he's focused on, to my eyes,
02:35is the quality of the at-bat, swinging at the right pitches.
02:39It's amazing the improvements he's made in that regard.
02:42Like, this was a guy who everybody flagged in the minor leagues of, you know,
02:45the swing and miss is going to get him.
02:47He's chasing too much down.
02:49You'd look at those cut-up videos of AAA, and the pitchers were junk-balling him down,
02:54and he was chasing a lot of that stuff.
02:55And it's like, man, what's going to happen when he gets to the big leagues?
02:58Well, here's what has happened.
02:59He doesn't swing at those pitches.
03:00He makes them come in the strike zone.
03:02He's giving the Giants the best at-bats on the team.
03:05He's been unbelievably disciplined in the strike zone.
03:08His strikeout rate has plummeted to one of the lowest on the team right now.
03:12The power is, obviously, we've seen glimpses of it,
03:16but the power is going to come way more as he gets even more comfortable
03:20with this idea of controlling the strike zone as a hitter.
03:23Okay, so that's kind of what you and I were already detailing a little bit, right?
03:27And so that's what everybody is so excited about and so impressed with.
03:33But then peep this.
03:35Allow your mind to wander a little bit.
03:37And I know it's still very early, and like I said, we're not doing a coronation.
03:42But if you do allow your mind to wander a little bit, it gets pretty fun.
03:46And I want you to hear, listen closely now to the words that Dave uses
03:51as he talks about where this could go next.
03:55This guy is so gifted, and he's learning so fast.
04:00He's learned defense.
04:01He's become a much better defender.
04:03We were talking with Ron Wotus the other day.
04:04Ron Wotus was like, this guy's base running has gotten so much better.
04:08He's cutting angles.
04:09He's hitting the bag in the right spot.
04:11He's never going to be fast.
04:13If he can just be a smart, savvy.
04:15The Cox bunt the other night, Bryce got a terrific jump.
04:19Like, read it perfectly and scored without a play at home plate.
04:24That's Bryce Eldridge.
04:25Like, in theory, your slowest guy out there on a non-suicide squeeze bunt play.
04:30The aptitude level of this guy is massive.
04:33He's got the right attitude.
04:34He wants to be the leader.
04:36He believes in himself.
04:37You know, I'm trying to contain.
04:39I don't want to overhype this guy.
04:41But he has a chance.
04:43And we haven't said this in a long time with a Giants player.
04:45He has a chance to be the most impactful hitter in the league.
04:50He has a chance to be the most fearsome hitter in the league.
04:54How's that statement grab you?
04:56That's pretty big.
04:57I mean, you talk about the left-handed Aaron Judge is basically what he's saying.
05:01Because Aaron Judge, you would say, is the most impactful hitter in the league.
05:06At least he has been year in and year out.
05:08A guy who not only hits you 60 home runs, but he might threaten to lead the league in hitting
05:13as well.
05:13I mean, unless Shohei is already the left-handed hitting Aaron Judge.
05:17Perhaps.
05:17Yeah, but go ahead.
05:18I mean, you're talking about those guys as the most impactful hitters in baseball year in and year out.
05:24Kyle Schwarber is another guy who does monstrous things on the regular.
05:28These are first ballot, no-brainer, surefire Hall of Famers.
05:31So, he's not saying that he will be that, but he has a chance to be that.
05:36That's as high of praise as you can give a young player.
05:38The most impactful hitter in the league.
05:42A chance.
05:42A chance to become the most impactful hitter in the league.
05:47Because the stuff that we sort of, I think, we see and we get excited about, honestly, that's the easy
05:54stuff for Bryce.
05:55Because when he hit ball, ball go far.
05:58That's not, like, that's not a problem.
06:01There's a lot of guys that can do that.
06:04In other words, you know, there's players like, if you're old enough to remember Dave Kingman.
06:09Like, there's guys who can hit the ball really far, but that doesn't make them good hitters.
06:15So, they can hit a homer, but then they hit 215.
06:18And they strike out constantly.
06:20There were moments where Cecil Fielder was a little bit like that.
06:23But what Dave is saying here, that in a month in the big leagues, he gets around big league coaches.
06:31And you can see the improvement so quickly.
06:36So quickly.
06:37He is soaking things up like a sponge.
06:39And they're already on him about strikeout rate and plate discipline.
06:44And if he picks things up this quickly.
06:47And instead only chooses strikes to swing at.
06:51And then starts to grow further into his swing and his strength and his body.
06:57That whole ball go far thing, when he hit it, that's easy for him.
07:01I mean, he's 6'7".
07:02And he's a great athlete.
07:04He doesn't even need to get all of it.
07:05Last night, he didn't get all of it.
07:07No.
07:07Not even close to all of it.
07:09Straight away center.
07:09Straight away center.
07:10And it was 15 feet over the fence.
07:13Just an easy, long, languid swing.
07:16Just like you say, you don't even have to really swing hard or get a big pull on it.
07:21He's so tall and so athletic that just go ahead and meet the ball.
07:25And watching the way he goes to left field right now, that to me is maybe the biggest bright spot
07:31of his early career.
07:32Because he's not afraid to keep the hands back.
07:35And if the ball's away, he'll go ahead and just go with it and drive it with power and feel
07:39confident that he can lift it if he needs to.
07:41Let me add, I don't know if anybody cares about this.
07:44I think you should.
07:45Some fans don't.
07:47Just have done plenty of talking and digging around the ballpark.
07:52And let me tell you what the first impression has been.
07:55And I don't even just mean as a teammate.
07:57I mean, like, as an organizational face, like the way he treats everyone around him, the way he handles coaching,
08:08the way he sort of goes about his business.
08:12Absolute first rate, first class human being, like the kind of guy that can handle what Dave is talking about,
08:21because that's all the stuff that you don't necessarily know.
08:24You don't know how people are going to handle success.
08:28Do we need to do another segment about Brandon Ayuk?
08:31No, we don't.
08:32You don't know how people are going to handle success.
08:35You don't know.
08:36But right now, the early returns on what they're seeing from Bryce Eldridge, by the way, the top prospect in
08:43the organization who was brought up and initially told,
08:46you just sit there for some of them, you don't need to play, handles everything in the classiest, most just
08:56first rate way that you could.
08:58That's who we're dealing with.
08:59As a 21 year old, too.
09:01As a 21 years old.
09:03And we've seen this before from precocious young stars.
09:06I remember Mike Trout, when he came up at 19, he might have been 20.
09:10Bryce Harper the same.
09:11And they're cut from a different cloth, but young players who came up and had success and were able to
09:17continue to have success because they didn't get too far over their skis.
09:21I remember when Andrew Jones came up for the Braves in that playoff run, and he immediately was just mashing
09:27the ball all over the place.
09:28So you've had young players come up and do well, but to be able to stay in your process and
09:33stay humble and keep getting better.
09:35And it's too early to tell if he'll do that, but the early signs are very positive.
09:40All right.
09:42So.
09:45What do you do with Rafi Devers?
09:47What do you do with Rafi Devers?
09:50What's the matter with Rafi?
09:52He's at first.
09:54I think, I mean, you keep Rafi Devers and you try to continue to toggle between the two.
10:00You play first and UDH and then UDH and then you play first.
10:04You can't put them at third because you've got a gold glover over there.
10:07And I guess Rafi wasn't a gold glove third baseman, despite my sources.
10:12My sources tell me he was, but.
10:14Very much was not.
10:15Yeah.
10:15So what do you do with Rafi in the short term?
10:19You keep them both.
10:20You play them both in the long term.
10:22Well, then maybe you think about making a move.
10:25If, if Bryce continues to be this good, a 900 OPS guy, and he continues to get better
10:32at first, well, then you may have another question.
10:35You may have more of an issue on your hands.
10:37You answered the question in a fair way, but in a very much in the present moment sort
10:42of a way.
10:43Right.
10:43This is, look, again, it's too early to just assume that Bryce Eldridge is going to do
10:50this for the rest of his life.
10:52It has been a month of baseball and the league will get a book on him and blah, blah, blah.
10:59Like all of the things still need to, to happen, but I am not going to dismiss or diminish this.
11:08I don't think this is one of those things that comes from the files of a good problem
11:12to have.
11:13I do not.
11:15And Dan O'Dowd told you and me a couple of weeks ago, former GM of the Rockies, and
11:23this was before Bryce Eldridge started blowing up.
11:26He said, I don't see how you can keep them both on the roster.
11:30And if it were up to him, if he were GM of the Giants right now, he'd be looking for
11:36a
11:36way to get out from underneath the Rafi Devers contract.
11:39And every day that I've watched Bryce, the more I believe Dan is spot on.
11:45And I say that very, in a hesitant way, because I want, I want to be clear here.
11:52I'm not coming down Rafi Devers' road.
11:54I'm really not.
11:56Has he been a little bit of a disappointment since becoming a Giant?
12:00That's how I would describe it.
12:02I think some people are a little over the top with their assessment of Rafi Devers.
12:08You know, we got texts all over the place right now.
12:12He's booty cheeks.
12:14He's a fat slob.
12:15He sucks.
12:16Devers has been disappointing.
12:19Not like screaming, yelling, disappointing.
12:22He's not been the elite player that you thought he'd be.
12:26There were flashes of it.
12:27He's not been a bad player by any stretch of the imagination.
12:32He's not been what you signed up for.
12:34His war right now is 0.0.
12:37Exactly.
12:37So he is a replacement level player and you're paying him to be a superstar.
12:41No doubt.
12:42But at the same time, we are still, you know, you're still in the first half of the season.
12:48And those numbers are largely built off of what was just an awful April.
12:54And then he had an elite May.
12:56And then June is kind of off to a wonky start.
13:00Okay.
13:00We get it.
13:01And actually, Dave was really good on this.
13:03We'll play some of the Devers stuff in a minute.
13:06But I just think this is now hitting a fast track where Buster needs to do this in an opportunistic
13:12way.
13:13You don't need to firmly decide, I need to trade him.
13:17And you don't need to firmly decide, I'm going to keep him.
13:20But if I'm Buster Posey and this is his job, it is to be canvassing the league at all times
13:26and totally be ready.
13:29And I mean that next season or tomorrow.
13:33Totally and completely ready to deal Rafi Devers if someone is willing to either give you great prospects
13:45or take on most of the money, it's a complicated deal.
13:49Buster Olney told us last week you're stuck with him.
13:52But I don't know about that.
13:53But if I'm Buster, I'm making those calls now to find out what the options are.
13:59Because I don't think they can be on the same team long term.
14:03I agree with you there.
14:04And I feel like it might be a little bit premature to do it now.
14:08Not just because Bryce has more to show that he can be the real deal.
14:12What we've seen so far with an OPS of just about 900.
14:15It looks like he is going to be everything as advertised.
14:19I don't see a long, prolonged slump.
14:22And certainly I don't see a slump that would cause him to go back to AAA.
14:26Feels like he's here and he's here to stay.
14:28And if that's the reality, and you've got Rafi Devers for six more years after this, I believe.
14:33I think it might be seven.
14:34It might be seven, not five, not six.
14:36All roads lead to LeBron apparently this summer.
14:38But whatever the number of years is, I agree with you.
14:41You can't have them both on the roster long term.
14:44And maybe it's not this year at the deadline.
14:46But it might be this year at the deadline.
14:48We still have almost two full months until the deadline.
14:51And if you have a team out there that is maybe one bat away from capitalizing on their window,
14:57it could happen sooner rather than later.
14:59We're five days away from when they got him last year.
15:02Right.
15:03He does have seven more years on his deal.
15:05But here's what I'm willing to say.
15:07Seven years.
15:08I don't know if Bryce Eldridge is going to be a superstar.
15:11I agree with Dave.
15:12He's got an opportunity to be.
15:14But I don't know if it's going to play out that way.
15:16But here's what I am willing to say.
15:19He's your first baseman.
15:20That's your first baseman.
15:22Raphael Devers has seven years to go.
15:25Bryce Eldridge has two years to go before he even starts arbitration.
15:30Right.
15:32Before he even starts arbitration.
15:35So this guy is yours on the relatively affordable scale for a long, long time.
15:46Like, they could buy these Arbyers out and do something that, like, teams do that all the time.
15:53You've seen the Braves do this, where they'll jump a guy and they're like, okay.
15:58Acuna.
15:59Yeah, well, they did this with Ozzie Albies even.
16:02Like, you can get guys on, you can, like, they'd get money.
16:06They'd get good money.
16:07But if you did Bryce Eldridge right now, if you went to his agent and said, hey, we'll buy out
16:14the Arbyers.
16:15Let's do 10 years and $180 million.
16:22That's $18 million a year.
16:24And I'm not even saying they should do this.
16:27My point is, is Bryce and the agent would almost be crazy to not do that.
16:33And I know people go, there's no way you'd take that.
16:36Trust me.
16:37You're sitting, you're taking injury out of play.
16:39You're taking all that stuff out of play.
16:42And you're telling somebody, hey, do you want to be a really wealthy human being for the rest of your
16:47life no matter what?
16:48And guys usually sign that deal.
16:50And the Giants may be heading toward this.
16:52So Bryce Eldridge is their first baseman.
16:55Rafi Devers is not.
16:56But the problem is, is for seven years, he is.
17:00So I just think, if you're Buster, you've got to start the exploration process now.
17:05It might take a year and it might take two.
17:07And that's okay.
17:10But Rafi Devers is not your first baseman for the next seven years.
17:13That's the way I look at it.
17:14And I think it's lineup preventative to have them both here and do the flip-flop for seven years.
17:19If you're at first and you're the DH and you're the DH and you're at first.
17:23It takes the bat out of too many guys' hands, including those players who aren't really great fielders.
17:29And Devers has been, he's been good at first.
17:31He's been fine.
17:32Bryce Eldridge, we don't even know how good he'll be.
17:35But if you have a third really good hitter who's also a mid sort of a fielder, I'm looking at
17:41you, Elliot Ramos, you don't want to have the DH taken up by your two lefties who have to just
17:45switch back and forth.
17:47That's not a good long-term roster construction viable way to approach it.
17:51Dave Fleming on Rafi and how you would assess his first year as a Giant.
17:58It's very fair to say that Rafi has not played up to his standards for a full year and that
18:04they need a lot more from him.
18:05And he's not playing particularly well right now.
18:08That's fair.
18:09And I think he would say that.
18:10Like, he's not performed at the highest level.
18:13There have been stretches.
18:14You know, May, he leads all of baseball in extra base hits, which is good.
18:18And he had a lot of big hits.
18:20But the consistency of excellence just hasn't been there.
18:23There's a lot more in there.
18:25At some point, we are going to see that.
18:26But when you make that kind of trade and commit to that kind of player, you're expecting the best version
18:32of that player.
18:32I think it's pretty clear we haven't seen that from Rafi.
18:35Okay.
18:35So, Dave Fleming not holding anything back there.
18:39Very fair to say that Devers has underperformed.
18:43And then the guys kind of dug into why.
18:46Like, Dave, you're there every day.
18:47What exactly do you see?
18:50And here's how Dave handled that one.
18:51I don't know.
18:52I think that it's fair to ask if, as a player gets older, if Rafi needs to be in a
19:00little better shape.
19:01I think that's fair.
19:02You know, he's never been, he's always been a big-bodied player.
19:06And when you look at him, you know, just walking around, the strength level is a big reason why he's
19:12such a good player.
19:13And he's very strong.
19:15He's nimble.
19:16He plays every day.
19:17So, you can't really say that he doesn't take care of himself because he does.
19:21Like, he's in there.
19:22He never wants to come out of a game.
19:25He's playing in the field most days.
19:27But I think it's fair to say, as a player crosses that threshold, you know, 28, 29 to 30, you're
19:33not a young player anymore.
19:34It's possible that the body composition needs to change.
19:38Okay, so we're talking about body composition change because he's moving into 30, he's moving into being an older veteran
19:44player now, and the Giants just got him and have seven more seasons after this.
19:51Listen, I say this as an actual fan of Rafi Devers and somebody who is still optimistic about where this
19:59goes next and thinks that actually Giants fans,
20:03because he's been a little disappointing, sometimes are a little bit too hard on Rafi Devers.
20:09I've been very, very clear about that over the last handful of weeks.
20:12I say all that and still arrive at, he can't stay.
20:19I'm that high on Bryce Eldridge.
20:22You even heard Dave there.
20:24Rafi wants to be in every game.
20:27Rafi wants to be at first base every day.
20:30Rafi makes $30 million a year.
20:33It's impossible to work your way through that whole idea.
20:38This idea that, well, no, you just tell him that he has to, well, it doesn't work that way in
20:43pro sports.
20:44It just doesn't.
20:46And neither one of them is really movable positionally.
20:49Like, Devers has played third, but, you know, he's not as good as your third baseman.
20:53You probably don't want him over there.
20:55And I can't really see Bryce Eldridge in the outfield at this point.
20:58And you could have him, I don't know, go back to pitching again, do the full Shohei Ohtani.
21:03Right.
21:04He was a great pitcher.
21:05But neither one of them has positional flexibility like a Casey Schmidt.
21:10So if they're first base or DH, you can't have them both there.
21:13Yeah.
21:14And Dave also talked about the positional log jam.
21:16And this isn't even just about Bryce and Rafi.
21:20It's all over the diamond.
21:22Conversation kind of went there when the guys brought up Luis Arise.
21:25And everyone loves Luis Arise.
21:27He's just, I mean, he's playing like an all-star.
21:29He might be an all-star.
21:30But you probably do need to move him at the deadline because he deserves a long-term deal.
21:38And it's not here.
21:40And you can't, like, I guess my point is, is there's a shelf life on this.
21:46Like, well, let's, we'll put Casey left.
21:48And then, like, Bryce will DH three days.
21:52And Rafi will DH a day.
21:54And then when Ramos comes back, like, we'll figure that out.
21:57And then maybe Jung, who goes back to center, even though we already told the whole world we don't like
22:01him.
22:02Like, you can't do this forever.
22:04You're going to have to create a runway for these young players.
22:09And so it's a bummer.
22:12A year ago, I was super excited about this trade.
22:16But I don't think Rafi can stay here long-term.
22:19It doesn't make any sense.
22:21It doesn't, but it's not as easy as, I'm sorry, Rafi, we've got to find a new home for you.
22:25The guy's here for seven more years at huge money.
22:29And already there's, you know, talk not about a bad body, but maybe he's a little bit thicker than you
22:35would like.
22:35And he's, what, already 30, 31?
22:38No, I think he's on his way to 30.
22:41Is he still 29?
22:43I see, Ed.
22:4329 is where he's listed in baseball reference.
22:46And his birthday's in October.
22:47So, yeah, he'll be 30.
22:49Yeah.
22:49By the time they make the run in the playoffs.
22:53Oh, baby, couldn't even get through the joke.
22:55That was funny.
22:55It'll be 30 next year and 37 when the deal ends.
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