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00:02Um, when they're saying, when Joe posits that the Cavs could very well believe that,
00:08hey, it just got tired and winded and unlucky, it's like, come on, that's the biggest slap
00:15in the face to Cavs fans ever.
00:16Like, there's been some Cavs fans here over the last couple of years who have said some
00:19things that out of frustration might not be true.
00:22Like the Indiana series, I thought they got out-assed.
00:24I didn't think that they got out-fought.
00:26But we say things out of frustration, that's fine.
00:28But I mean, good God, who's lying to who?
00:31If you're sitting there trying to tell people that you just got tired and you just didn't
00:35like the schedule, like, then I guess you should have beat Toronto in a decent amount of time
00:40so you can get your feet up and rest.
00:41I guess you should have beaten Detroit, who you matched up very well against.
00:44And yeah, I know, Detroit was the number one seed.
00:47Okay, well, who gained the system?
00:48Who gained the system here?
00:50See, that's...
00:50What do you mean by that?
00:53Do we not talk about what they did at the end of the season?
00:56I mean, they kept that spot in the rankings on purpose.
01:00They did what they could to make sure that they had the matchups that they wanted.
01:03That's what I'm saying about gaming the system.
01:05I mean, they still finished one of the better records over the last month of the year.
01:09It's not like they fell ass backwards on purpose intentionally to do everything they can.
01:16Like, they won a ton of games.
01:17So we never had a conversation about Cade Cunningham's injury, or excuse me, his lung,
01:21and then you having to...
01:22Yeah, well, that was smart.
01:23To figure out what they were going to do.
01:25But didn't we all agree universally that was smart what they were doing?
01:28It wasn't like that was stupid.
01:29Well, Cade Cunningham had a serious medical emergency there.
01:32But we had a conversation, Anthony, about how the playoffs...
01:36We were very respectful about Cade Cunningham, and then once we got over with that,
01:40we were saying, hey, doesn't this bother us with how the seeding is?
01:44Because we didn't want to see the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference playoffs.
01:49I wanted, quite specifically, I wanted somebody else to get a chance to beat them.
01:52Did they not game the system?
01:53That's not new.
01:54But it wasn't nearly as flagrant as it came out of your mouth.
01:57Like, they...
01:57Like, they...
01:58You acted like they put it up...
01:59You acted like they did it on accident?
02:00Like, no, you acted like they put it up on the whiteboard with a month to go.
02:04We have to do everything we can.
02:05Oh, God, could you stop being so sensitive over the Cavs?
02:07No, I'm not.
02:07They did it.
02:07Good God almighty.
02:08They did it.
02:08I said it in passing, for the love of God, and you want to turn everything into a deposition.
02:12They literally did it.
02:13They figured that out with a week left to play.
02:15All right.
02:15Tell me what they're doing.
02:17Hold on.
02:17We all agreed it was smart, too.
02:19You're acting now like they should be in trouble because they did that?
02:22Like, I don't get that.
02:23You game the system, though.
02:24That's what you did.
02:25That's what they did.
02:27You wanted the matchups.
02:28You got the matchups.
02:29And then the matchups went longer than we thought that they were going to go.
02:32We went longer than they thought they should have went.
02:34Now, Detroit, maybe there should have been a little bit more respect.
02:36Fine.
02:37But when you have Toronto sitting there and you play with your food, which is Donovan's words,
02:40not mine, when you have Detroit sitting there, where you start off in a no-two hole, so you
02:44basically have to go to game seven, except you could have closed it out in game six at
02:49home, except you went out there and played like garbage and embarrassed yourself.
02:53So where are we finding excuses?
02:55I don't know if it's the excuse.
02:56That part is dumb.
02:57Like, I would get rid of that messaging immediately.
02:59Everything I say about the Cavs these last couple of days, man, you've been starting to
03:02go after me like my name's Nick.
03:03But you got to relax.
03:04But when people say, okay, Ken, settle down.
03:07Well, I'm not the one getting, don't tell me to settle down.
03:09You're the one getting personally sensitive over this.
03:11You're getting so grumpy all of a sudden.
03:12I'm not getting grumpy.
03:13But when you have a team that's making excuses for themselves, get out of your system and
03:17then I'll get a chance to do it.
03:18It's the most slime move ever.
03:20Make me mad and then act like I can't say and defend myself.
03:24This is as slime as it gets.
03:25I don't know what you're defending yourself against.
03:26Just let's move on.
03:27You accused me of saying things that weren't true.
03:30You accused me of saying things that weren't true.
03:32Don't whatever it means when you brought it up.
03:35You asked me.
03:35You asked me.
03:36I guess we're done with this segment.
03:37I guess we'll move on.
03:38Let's get to Miles Garrett trade rumors here in eight minutes.
03:41No, absolutely not.
03:42Give everybody the company line for you, please.
03:45I can't move on, can I?
03:47He's not going to let me.
03:48I'm afraid to speak.
03:49There were like seven different chances I tried to get in here.
03:51Go ahead.
03:52My mic's off.
03:52So when I hear, and he's still yelling, he still can't let it go.
03:55Please keep talking about me instead of trying to make the point you were trying to make.
03:58Holy cow.
03:59It's not going to happen.
03:59I got to leave.
04:01I literally can't do it anymore.
04:02Mic's off.
04:03All our mics off.
04:04Okay, he's leaving.
04:05I don't know why he's leaving.
04:06You are more than welcome to talk on the microphone.
04:09You are more than welcome to talk on the mic.
04:11So you're going to take your ball and go home?
04:13Yes.
04:14Okay.
04:14He took his ball and went home.
04:17Okay, that's fine.
04:17I don't know why he had to leave the room over that, for the love of God.
04:22I must have mentioned the wrong thing.
04:23I was critical of the Cavaliers and how they game the system for their postseason.
04:27I'm sorry.
04:28I apologize.
04:30You can have, if you're willing to come back in and do the show with me, you can have
04:33the floor.
04:34You can leave the whole thing.
04:35Can we negotiate a settlement here on the air?
04:39Well, he's not on the air.
04:40So he's not going to do his job?
04:43He's left.
04:44What is he going to do?
04:45He's going to finish this segment, I believe, out there.
04:47So I'm going to go to break.
04:49All right.
04:50When we go to break, I'm going to try to talk tone back into doing, on my dead mother in
04:56a box in my office, I won't say a word.
04:58I will not say a word.
05:00Is that fair?
05:02I don't believe you.
05:04Well, is it not?
05:05I won't say a word.
05:06I swear to God.
05:07If he wants to pump out whatever rhetoric he can, that's fine.
05:10But when you say, what do you mean by that?
05:12I'm going to answer the question.
05:15I'm going to answer the question.
05:16Because every time we talk Cavs, especially when we're being critical of the Cavs, it's
05:20what do you mean by that, Ken?
05:21What do you mean by that, Ken?
05:22What do you mean by that, Ken?
05:23What do you mean by that?
05:23Well, I'm telling people what I mean by it.
05:26Is he coming back or are we done with Anthony here?
05:29I think we have to go.
05:30Okay.
05:30Because all I needed to do was get an answer.
05:33Toad Monkman on X says, like father, like son, Lima walks out.
05:37I did walk out.
05:39I did.
05:41At times, the two of us, and this has, I think, happened many times over the years.
05:49We, what we pride ourselves in is that we can be petty, we can be children, we can be
05:55rather juvenile, and then we can redress our concerns immediately during a break, and we
06:05did so, and while Owen said he thought we both got out of line.
06:09No, I just didn't think it was very good.
06:12And Owen will also tell us when he thinks what we're doing on the radio is not very good
06:17as well.
06:18But I wanted to point out, I agreed with almost everything you said last segment.
06:26I did.
06:28I do not think the Cavs in any way, shape, or form, I'll just say it right now.
06:33I'll be the minister of their communications right now for the next few moments.
06:40I know they have people that do that, but they're not on the radio right now.
06:43They have a title of communications minister?
06:44They're not on the radio right now, so I'll do it for them, as Ken was accusing me of.
06:50I would...
06:50But Ken can't defend himself right now.
06:51I would...
06:52Sure he can.
06:53We've negotiated it.
06:54You know what?
06:55Am I allowed?
06:55We've negotiated it.
06:57If I were the Cavs, I would never mention the schedule of the playoffs ever again.
07:01I would never mention that, yes, they did have to play 14 games in like 28 days, and that
07:06was a record.
07:06I would never mention that again.
07:08Like Ken said, that was of their own doing.
07:11They had a hard-fought seven-game series against the Raptors, in which, let's be honest, who
07:16did the Raptors have that should have posed that kind of a threat?
07:19That series should have never gone seven games.
07:21Kenny, absolutely, you are 100% right, and while we were experiencing that series, we
07:27were all going, holy cow, how is this happening?
07:29You were up two games to nothing in that series.
07:31Going back to Toronto, at most, should have netted them one win.
07:34And so they put themselves, and their star player, Donovan Mitchell, acknowledged it
07:40as such.
07:40The Detroit series, I mean, I thought we'd win the series, but then we got down two games
07:46to nothing, and I was like, oh my God, how embarrassing is this going to be?
07:50And then I thought the Cavs showed us something in that series.
07:53But again, seven games after the seven games prior, you did not put yourself in the best
07:58of spots.
07:59That's why both of us sat here, and who did we pick in the Knicks series?
08:02We picked the Knicks.
08:03We did not see that being one of the all-time humiliating sweeps in NBA history.
08:10That was bad.
08:11The schedule was part of the reason.
08:13Now, obviously, I'm coming in a lot nicer, which, I mean, no one has a point.
08:17Now, if you do want two people to not lose their cool and give each other ample time, we
08:22are 56 minutes away from 10 o'clock.
08:25They do that very well.
08:28Let me come in a little nicer here.
08:31Let me say it.
08:32Or let you say it.
08:33Like, there are always, I'll let you guys in on this.
08:36You guys know this, but I'm just going to, I'm going to have the open secret.
08:40There are people from all three teams in town.
08:42They all listen.
08:43They all do.
08:44They love to say they don't.
08:45They all listen.
08:46Because they text us during the show.
08:48And I'm not going to say who, I'm not going to name names, but they will text Anthony during
08:53the show, or they'll text me during the show, or they'll text Owen to tell us during the
08:56show that, oh, well, that's not fair.
08:59This isn't fair.
08:59You know, or the best thing is, is when news breaks during the day, and then they know
09:04that one or me or Anthony or both are going to be really mad the next morning, so they'll
09:08try to play defense already and try to call or text or whatever.
09:11That has happened many times.
09:12All three teams.
09:14Were Kenny messed up?
09:17Were they messed up?
09:18All you have to do is send us a text to make an argument.
09:21And we may or may not believe it.
09:23Like, there have been plenty of times where somebody from any of the three teams has texted
09:29me or you, and we've been, BS.
09:31I'm going to, no, not right.
09:32We're going to do it.
09:34Or I go, okay, I can see that point of view, and it just sticks in your head.
09:38Not like you agree you're going to say what it is.
09:41The company line line was over the line.
09:43Let me draw that from the record.
09:45That was a little bit too much by me.
09:46All right?
09:48So I'm trying to do this as short as I can.
09:51Just let me say it.
09:52If you think that the schedule, I'm serious.
09:55If Kenny Atkinson thinks that the schedule is a little bit rough, don't say it to the
09:59media.
10:00Let me, let Jason Lloyd say it.
10:02Let Joe say it.
10:04Joe Varden.
10:05Or let Anthony say it.
10:06Or me or anybody.
10:07Let us say it.
10:09And then let us get killed for it.
10:11Because if I say that, I get hammered for it.
10:14If I believe it.
10:15I don't believe it.
10:16But say I did.
10:17Say I did and thought it was a legitimate reason.
10:19Let me take it.
10:21Because it ain't, I'm not, I'm not in charge of the team.
10:23I'm just a radio show host.
10:24You're just a radio show host.
10:25They're just writers.
10:26They're just media.
10:27And maybe there's going to be some people who believe it in hell.
10:30Maybe over time.
10:31Maybe over time.
10:32And ends up being an accepted thought.
10:34I don't know.
10:35Kind of like what you see.
10:36And it's not like they're, well, I mean, it is.
10:38Kind of like what you're seeing with Deshaun Watson starting for the Cleveland Rounds.
10:40Guys, if that many people are saying it, we're starting to become used to the idea.
10:46Are we not?
10:47If that many people are talking about Miles Garrett being on the move, are we or are we not starting
10:51to become used to the idea?
10:52So if that many people start to talk about the schedule that much and it actually being a legitimate reason,
10:57well, now all of a sudden it's there.
10:59But you can't do it.
11:00Just like Andrew Barry can't come out and say, yeah, we're going to trade Miles Garrett or we're thinking about
11:04trading Miles Garrett.
11:05And let me tell you the players were thinking about trading him for.
11:07Like, you can't do that.
11:08And Andrew knows that.
11:09Kenny made a terrible mistake mentioning schedule and luck and analytics.
11:14Oh, the luck stuff.
11:15That was the next thing I wanted to get to.
11:16He is very lucky that Dan has become a very patient man.
11:19Those three things, there's been guys who have been fired for those three things.
11:22When the series goes that poorly against you, those three things I just mentioned, you get canned for.
11:27Would younger Dan Gilbert, a very different Dan Gilbert, would that have been curtains immediately for Kenny?
11:34I think it would have been.
11:35A hundred percent it would have been.
11:36He's fired coach of the years before.
11:38He has no problem doing that.
11:41Absolutely.
11:41And so I think about that from a standpoint, because you're not just talking to free agents or guys you
11:49might trade for the rest of the league, the media.
11:52You're also talking to your fans.
11:54And I know there was a moment in the post game where I think Kenny got a little prickly with
12:00Joe Varden over some stuff.
12:03But, you know, I just walked out of this room last segment.
12:06I think I walked out of the room faster than a lot of the Cavs retreated on defense.
12:12Like after Kenny was trying to implore for them to get back in a Kenny way, too.
12:18Like, can you even see Kenny when you've seen the post game or pregame speeches?
12:22Can you even see him getting so worked up and animated and in their faces?
12:27Because, I mean, at some point, you know, even LeBron needed that, right?
12:32That was the famous example with Ty Lue on how the coaching messaging changed once and for all from David
12:38Blatt to Ty Lue is that on day one,
12:40oh, we're going to do film study of LeBron not getting back on defense.
12:44Okay, are you going to do that with James Harden and Donovan Mitchell?
12:46Like, not just tell the media you did it, which is what they said.
12:49Oh, yeah, we talked to the team.
12:51How did you talk to them?
12:52Did you brush it off at the end of the meeting and said, all right, guys, have a good night.
12:56Like, we have a big game tomorrow.
12:58Like, how did you do that?
12:59How did you go about doing that?
13:00Because what I saw in front of everybody and what Charles Barkley and Kenny and Shaq and Zach Lowe and
13:07Bill Simmons
13:08and just anybody associated with the game, Tim Legler, they all saw it on the floor and it was humiliating.
13:15And we throw around humiliating a lot.
13:17That was humiliating.
13:18And I'll start to draw a line because I love that you brought up LeBron.
13:22And now we're being polite and taking our turns with each other.
13:24I love that you brought up LeBron.
13:25Which is not as fun.
13:26Yeah, I know, but this is what it is.
13:29LeBron has made it abundantly clear.
13:31He just respects a former player so much more.
13:33He respected Ty Lue way more than he respects, at least a former NBA-er.
13:37He respected Ty Lue way more than he respected that.
13:40And you can say what you want to about Eric Spolstra.
13:42Dwayne Wade helped that situation out immensely, saying,
13:45Hey, if you don't go with this guy, Pat's going to come down from the office and you do not
13:50want to play for Pat.
13:51And that changed that opinion real quick.
13:53We all know that that's well documented.
13:55Ty Lue, J.J. Redick.
13:58But the more you say it, I'm like, well, not every guy has to be a former NBA player.
14:02Because like Tom Thibodeau, I have faith that Tom Thibodeau would tell you what's what.
14:07Now, if you went and fired Kenny Atkinson and brought in Tom Thibodeau, well, good luck.
14:10Because I think that you want to talk about gas.
14:12I think these guys are all going to play 48 minutes.
14:14You ain't going to have nothing left in the tank by the time the postseason comes around.
14:17But Tom Thibodeau, I would give him the respect that he deserves.
14:19The more you kind of, not you, Kenny, the more Kenny Atkinson kind of tippy-toes around this and makes
14:24excuses.
14:28If things don't go smoothly next year, people are going to be wondering how much respect he's got.
14:33Kenny, if they start out 17 and 16 like they did last year, what do you think is going to
14:41happen?
14:41Exactly.
14:42It'll be bye-bye.
14:43So you get, every guy reaches a point where if it's not getting through and we're all professionals here,
14:49then I got to tell you what for.
14:51And if he's not willing to do that, then we're just going to continue to have some of the same
14:54problems.
14:54Because it was absolutely insulting to Cavs fans.
14:59Those three things I brought up.
15:01You're bringing up analytics and that, analytically, we're up 2-1.
15:05You're saying that with a straight face.
15:06Wrong messaging.
15:07And that is now set in stone.
15:08Wrong messaging, yes.
15:10If you ask anybody online right now or any basketball fan in general, they're all mad.
15:15I was listening to Isola and Scalabrini yesterday.
15:18They must have told the same joke 30 different ways about, well, analytically, the Cavs should be showing up today
15:24to MSG.
15:25It should be game five.
15:26Here we go.
15:27Like the same joke 100 times.
15:30So that's inescapable.
15:31And I can't imagine how Dan feels about that.
15:35Now, I know they did win game seven in Detroit.
15:38And maybe to Dan Gilbert, that is gravy.
15:41Do the fans here care?
15:42The fans that weren't on those buses.
15:44No.
15:44Do they care about that party and pep rally you had in Detroit?
15:48They don't.
15:49They weren't there.
15:50They didn't experience it.
15:51And Owen, he's a general fan.
15:52He held Donovan Mitchell's feet to the fire over 82-0, that comment.
15:56And he was right.
15:57And I think a lot of people started to drop in once they made the trade for James Harden because
16:01it made things different.
16:02But you have something, what Kenny Atkinson said, three way worse things than any.
16:06I mean, Donovan Mitchell just laid the challenge out for his own team.
16:10And he was right.
16:10Like, they didn't care.
16:11No matter what the record was, you won 64 games, you got bounced in the second round.
16:15Donovan Mitchell was talking tough when he said it.
16:17He wasn't making no excuses when he said that.
16:19But when I'm hearing Kenny Atkinson, the head coach of your team, and a lead that people say makes too
16:24many excuses as it is,
16:25and people who say professional sports makes too many excuses as it is,
16:29when you're bringing up those three things, especially something like analytics,
16:32which we have fought tooth and nail in this town over, which ain't even your fault, by the way.
16:36It's a totally different team and a totally different sport.
16:38But when we have fought tooth and nail there, people are going to nail that thing to the wall,
16:43and that is what you're going to have to answer for.
16:45And so if we get halfway through the year next year or partway through the year next year,
16:48and we're seeing the same stuff and we ain't hearing no tough talk,
16:50we're just going to think you ain't respected enough in the locker room to be able to say these things.
16:54And Joe Mazzula, who just won Coach of the Year, congratulations.
16:56Kind of funny when these things come out, when your team's embarrassed earlier on in the playoffs.
17:00Not JB?
17:01No, believe it or not.
17:02I thought JB.
17:02I know it's recency bias.
17:03That would have been my pick, but Mazzula, what are they crushing him in Boston?
17:09Even if he has a championship, so he has a little more of a leash.
17:12But what are they crushing him for?
17:15Every game this year, we had good looks.
17:17I mean, we had good looks.
17:18The data points, these are good looks.
17:21I would tell my team to take them all over again.
17:23He's getting crushed because those good looks led to them getting humiliated in the playoffs
17:28by a team that they should not have lost to.
17:31And so, they're getting it over there.
17:33Of course, our coach hasn't won a championship.
17:36Our coach got over the second round hump.
17:38But man, at the end, we can all be honest, it didn't feel that much better
17:43than losing to Indiana in five games last year, the way your season ended.
17:48Doesn't mean there weren't good moments.
17:49There were.
17:50We saw some great game sevens and Jared Allen and Mobley, I think, took a step forward.
17:55We could talk about this series.
17:56Varden thought he took a huge step forward.
17:58Whatever.
18:00Overall, do fans feel that much better than they did a year prior
18:03where they only made it to the second round and lost in five games?
18:06Not really.
18:06It doesn't feel like it.
18:07Well, because you go out there in game one and you lose the way you do
18:09and then you put up no fight in game four.
18:11In a closeout game, you put up absolutely none.
18:14I know game three was a little bit, but again, when you're making all these excuses
18:18and saying all these things, they're just not going to take it the right way.
18:21You're grown men.
18:22And this is not a college program or a high school program.
18:25It's the NBA.
18:26And we're not at the beginning of all of this.
18:27Like, if Kenny would have said that in 2019, 2020, 2021, somewhere in there,
18:33like, yeah, it would have been taken a little bit differently.
18:352021, it's taken a little bit differently.
18:372026, man, that you can't.
18:38No.
18:39They're all veterans now.
18:40Can't do it.
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