00:00is sean's favorite player due for a big jump he probably shouldn't be jumping at all with some of
00:06his knee history but we'll talk about that here in just a second in below the belt which is sponsored
00:11by window nation uh before we get into the demarvian overshown profile from todd archer
00:18over at espn i mentioned earlier we're doing uh eight o'clock we had the uh the sean lee audio
00:24of
00:24him doing the analytics and the ai stuff that he's involved with now um that he had that panel
00:30with cynthia freeland and i mentioned the whole way that i became aware of it was because of
00:34the fact that the cowboys uh director of research and development john park which is just fancy way
00:41of saying their analytics department research and development um he had been on a panel that mit did
00:47recently the sloan sports analytics conference and it was generally they had all these different
00:52breakout sessions and these topics and so uh they brought him on one of the panels and i think the
00:58probably the least understood area of the cowboys organization is their analytics department
01:02people don't know anything about it for a good reason which is most analytics departments don't
01:08like to disclose how they operate because they don't want people to know the advantages they're
01:12looking for what they're doing here or there so it can be a little difficult to sometimes understand
01:16who's even in that department what level of work they do i'm stunned shoddy has even told us as much
01:22as he has about ryan feeder during the week who's involved in some of that but this was john park
01:27at
01:28this uh at this panel and i think he said a couple interesting things that will give you a look
01:33into
01:33how they operate uh this is cut 14 first year how do the dallas cowboys use analytics department
01:42within their organization i think one thing that makes our group unique in dallas is we focus on the
01:47applied r&d as opposed to r&d for its sake like we don't operate like academic research institution
01:53so we could talk about like this open and free capital market where you know everything converges
01:58to the same system but you know we we operate in the industry with a high barrier to entry with
02:04a lot
02:04of regulation and a lot of opportunities to find edges in rules and asymmetries across teams and you
02:11know going back to what i said earlier in terms of the constraints that are unique to each team to
02:16each
02:16staff to each person everyone's optimizing on different things maybe you know the word analytics
02:21is is speaking to the last 10 20 30 years that we've been in but i like to see it
02:26more as a
02:27continuum of just people being competitive in these spaces and now it's just happening at a faster rate
02:34right so um in terms of football as more unprecedented trades are happening yeah um you know you're always
02:41trying to value players in two ways one is what is their value to us and what is their value
02:46in the
02:46market and market it's always based off precedent and if there's no precedent you're kind of making
02:51your best estimation using whatever resources you have so let's then interpret that because it's an
02:57analytics guy talking about things so what's he what he's basically saying there's that the way
03:00the cowboys generally apply analytics he said so okay so there's this free market generally and
03:06an ed research and development department would say you're part of research and development
03:09developing you're supposed to be doing you know some some bigger projects and different things
03:13like that he's like okay well we're not a think tank we we are looking for immediate solutions that
03:18our team needs our team has problems that they need addressed and this is how we're going to apply it
03:22and
03:22he said one of the ways that maybe they're out there kind of separating some of these things is for
03:28instance in the trade market so we've talked about this before you know how jerry said well that's fine
03:32that that's what their price is that's not my price or that's that doesn't set the market for me that
03:36doesn't determine what i'm going to do so he said that one of the things that they will
03:39right there he was talking about one of the ways that they're applying that is they're trying to
03:42figure out okay there's market value for certain players in the trade market like george pickens
03:48or somebody like that and then there's okay but drill it down to what we need and how he can
03:54be
03:54applied to us what does that make our value we're not going to worry we obviously have to pay this
03:58but
03:59if we think he's worth more than that because of what he's going to do for us yeah go tell
04:03us that
04:03give us that information and we're going to go for it and we're going to do it
04:06um one more clip here from john park research and development generally a very broad like i said
04:13you're taking on long-term issues the cowboys don't do it that way they're one of the few
04:16organizations who apparently does not use their analytics department on longer-term projects they
04:21like short intermediary and john park said that's important because they're trying to build
04:26relationships with people who maybe are a little hesitant at times to analytics all else equal if
04:30there's a long-term project yeah in the shorter term project um and this is more like maybe maybe
04:36it's my philosophical difference to how some other teams operate but we err towards the short term for
04:41the immediate connection with with the coaching staff with the scouts for immediate synergies for
04:47trust and um the ability to have access to communication with these stakeholders so that
04:53we're not in a silo just generating all of these insights and then complaining all day about like oh we
04:58have all the answers to the test why aren't they listening to us because that whole narrative is
05:03wrong right we get to the right answer through collaboration and communication and being in the
05:07trenches together figuring things out we were intentional about our relationships throughout
05:11the building one thing i'd like to add someone um it's not necessarily that we're unilaterally just
05:16focusing on the short term whatever like how many sacks did so and so have and then you google it
05:20for
05:21them you run it over to the desk that's not what i'm saying that we over index for but to
05:25the extent
05:26that we're constrained within our current setup we operate optimally and then we're always trying
05:31to do longer term projects that's all very encouraging to me because i like the idea of
05:36what he's saying there which is we're not just sitting here trying to broad brush tell you we
05:42have our calculate kenny atkinson well we're winning we're winning on the on the calculator if
05:47you look at that he's saying no we have the things that we do and we have the things that
05:50we
05:51believe in but we need to show them how it works for them and how it works for them in
05:55the
05:55short term do you have an immediate problem okay here it is i'm gonna help you fix it based on
05:58what
05:58we the work we do over here so that we build trust and we come to these things we understand
06:02what they need and they understand what we do and i think that having the view of hey that
06:07narrative is wrong that we have all the answers that is not the case i think that should make
06:11some people who are resistant to the analytics stuff feel a little bit like okay this this
06:15sounds a little more like there's just teamwork being done here and this is information that
06:19they use and apply it's always been about messaging analytics departments have done a much
06:24better job convincing their owner of their importance than they have the fan bases and a lot of them
06:30have done and then the teams that do the best with it are also the best at communicating analytics
06:37to the players the astros for years now i mean part of communicating their analytics was trash cans
06:43but they did a really good job of explaining the players why alex bregman will go detailed of why
06:49he doesn't want to hit 300 why doesn't care he's like they've explained this to us like the teams
06:55that explain it to the players the best are the ones that win the most because if you were to
07:00ask the
07:00the average person and they would say like you know if if analytics says you have an 80 chance of
07:06getting something of this play working yeah the the general public would say well then it should
07:12work whereas the analytics department would say no no no no 80 only means that it still means that you
07:18know two out of ten times it's not gonna work sean lee said earlier this hour where sean lee says
07:21there's still the 20 and that 20 happens it happens and and so analytics would say well we weren't
07:27wrong we said it's an 80 chance not 100 so we're not wrong and that's always their out and that's
07:34always their little out that that that drives me nuts too because even as i like i like analytics but
07:39like when you sit there and say well i didn't say it was 100 chances it was 99 well and
07:43i think that's
07:44the thing though is that they look at and they go we're here to tell you about probabilities we're just
07:47here to give you an advantage we're not here to tell you that there's a way to to know for
07:50sure
07:50that this is what's happening we're just we're telling you what's probably gonna happen it's
07:53the message and the naming the naming of these stupid stats i love the stats name them better at
07:58least baseball went with like ops okay fine you know or war war i could say the word you just
08:04like
08:04saying it though i can't i can say war yeah i love war uh i i can't say would you
08:09like a baseball
08:10analytics department to be called the department of war yeah i would call the department of war
08:15all right uh over at espn uh you had todd archer writing last week about demarvian overshone and
08:23his expectations for this upcoming season and is he the top of the list for you of
08:30the player maybe most difficult to trust when they talk about their injury
08:37just because of it just because of what an optimistic like name and claim not not for any
08:41sort of reason of like well he's been wrong before yeah yeah he's won but just and that's
08:45the thing is that he's so he's always going to be so optimistic and like positive mindset and
08:49i'm going to attack it we we heard last time when he was recovering from his injury he had set
08:55these
08:55various goals for himself like i'm not going to propose to my girlfriend until my surgery has gone
08:59well enough that i can get down on the on that knee to propose and have all these different like
09:04goals that he had that he was shooting to achieve for uh he said to todd archer he said training
09:09to get
09:09back from an injury it's like you're trying to get back to the square one you're training to get
09:13back to just even i feel like i'm healthy and i'm getting the same work as everybody else and i
09:16got
09:17the same opportunities same opportunities to work as everybody else nobody can outwork me nobody can
09:21do what i do on the field when i'm healthy so not having to train just to rehab my knee
09:25but actually
09:26training football coming into the season i feel like everybody hasn't even seen me i think that's
09:30the biggest thing about when we talk about did it take a year for somebody to bounce back
09:35that was suggested sort of what demarvian overshone was saying there that was suggested
09:39me once of yeah the reason that bounce back here happens is not because oh it's healthy and it wasn't
09:44healthy before when you come back no it's healthy when they return to the field they just spent an
09:48entire off season not doing the work to prepare to play football they were doing the work to get
09:52themselves healthy and then once they're healthy that's different than actual football work and
09:56attacking things and so i think when we look at demarvian overshone or we look at savon revel and we
10:04look at the way that they played and if there's any concern about have they lost a step or have
10:10they are they unable to do some of these things that we would normally ask of them i think that
10:14there's a a comfort in the idea that you know they can still tap into this because a lot of
10:22that work
10:23was focused on not even blending in to what they needed to learn and what they needed to do and
10:28having
10:28a healthy off season right now with christian parker who is going to ask so much and demand so much
10:34from his group and then lean on them so much i think that it's absolutely critical they're going
10:39to be in here for all this work and we've heard over the off season schottenheimer said it over
10:43and over again overshone has been here as as active as anybody else in the building with what they're
10:49allowed to do i was thinking about this though when this article came up and you know todd was writing
10:53in there about the importance of hey demarvian overshone is going to be a key cog to what they do
10:58is he at this point one of the is he a top five most important cowboy to their success next
11:04year
11:06oh you're gonna say yes top five no let's say let's say i give you the guy who looked like
11:14he
11:14was about to be you know a pro bowler before he got hurt in 24 if i say he's gonna
11:19be that guy for
11:2017 games yeah is that the margin from what you got a linebacker last year to that is that a
11:25huge enough
11:26margin in terms of impact to say if you got that that's an immediate way to to jump your ability
11:32as a football team that you didn't have last year yes absolutely i like the way you phrased it better
11:36that time and i think and that's all i mean it's more like the idea of like you don't reasonably
11:41think
11:41you can get well what about downs of the safeties downs is huge uh overshone the health of secondary
11:47so dak is very important right george pickens is very important but do we think like oh there's a
11:51there's a big margin there's a big margin you can tap into with them this year that you didn't have
11:55last year yeah whereas overshone i think might present overshone or downs would present the
12:02biggest leap you could make as a team reasonably yep where you say hey that guy can do this he
12:07can
12:08contribute a certain level and we've heard you know there is a i'll throw uh i'll throw some cold
12:14water on my own on my own guy oh my gosh on your guy and i love that you know
12:18faf you know faf gotta be
12:22overshone and i love listening to him i love his energy but overshone does a lot of bragging and
12:32talking about a 19 game career like demar vion is like look it's it's already established that i'm
12:39one of the best linebackers and he said this at the derby yeah it's already established i'm one of
12:44the best linebackers in the league when i'm healthy and i'm like i love you man but that was 13
12:49games
12:49yeah in 2024 like you've been in the league for a peyton russell hiccup what and he's talking like
12:57he's got this we all we all know right if just mike trout could be out there he's the man
13:02and i think
13:03demar vion like he talks like he's done it for multiple years and he hasn't i'm trying to think
13:09who's similar in sports i know there's got to be somebody who's similar in sports that is just the
13:13like relentlessly optimistic individual russell russell wilson yeah oh gosh okay well let me let me
13:19think of but i do think that that's part of the same sort of optimism of just like yeah hey
13:24yeah
13:24talk in a certain mindset apply a certain mindset that you're going to be great and this is what
13:28you do and this is how you play
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