- 13 hours ago
During Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Norway, a joint diplomatic press statement in Oslo saw Norwegian journalist Helle Ling question the Prime Minister on India's human rights record and press freedom.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching NewsTrack with me, Maria Shaquille.
00:03All hell has broken loose over one question and a press briefing in Norway.
00:09At the centre of it is Norwegian journalist Helle Ling.
00:13What began as a sharp exchange over questions on India's human rights record
00:17quickly turned into a diplomatic and media flashpoint.
00:21The Minister of External Affairs has strongly responded,
00:24accusing an ignorant NGO-linked narrative of misrepresenting India
00:29and attempting to tarnish its image on the global stage.
00:32While the clip went viral in Norway, it has triggered sharp reactions back home too,
00:38with critics and supporters divided over whether it was an assertion of press freedom
00:43or a breach of diplomatic decorum.
00:46The incident has now opened up a larger debate on media conduct,
00:52perception and the thin line between questioning power and provoking confrontation.
00:57Before I bring in the guests, here's a report.
01:05During Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Norway visit,
01:08massive drama erupted in Oslo as a question from a Norwegian journalist
01:13triggered a fiery face-off at the Ministry of External Affairs press conference.
01:18The tension exploded when journalist Helle Ling directly questioned the Indian delegation
01:24asking why India should be trusted.
01:28I am wondering, as we strengthen our partnership,
01:32why should we trust you?
01:34Can you promise that you will try to stop the human rights violations that go on in your country?
01:40And also, will the Prime Minister start taking critical questions from the Indian press
01:47at some point in the future?
01:49And also, if possible, I would like you to answer straight away.
01:53What followed was a strong and combative response from MEA Secretary C.B. George,
01:59who fiercely defended India's democracy, constitutional values, diversity and human rights record.
02:05You asked me a question, let me answer it.
02:08India is a civilizational country, which has something unique,
02:12which it offers to the world, and it continues to offer to the world.
02:16Before the 2023 G20 meeting, there couldn't be a joint declaration.
02:23After the G20, which India held in 2024, there couldn't be a joint declaration.
02:29But when India organized the G20 in 2023, what happened?
02:37The whole world, despite the differences, came together,
02:41and we were able to adopt a common global declaration, the Delhi Declaration.
02:47This was the trust of the world towards India.
02:52The journalist repeatedly interrupted George while he was answering,
02:56which prompted a stern response from him.
02:59George C.B. George, you asked me a question, please.
03:03Let me finish my question.
03:05Let me finish my answer to the question.
03:08Let me, you asked me a question.
03:11You asked me a question.
03:13You asked me a question, let me answer.
03:16You asked me a question, let me answer.
03:19Okay?
03:20Let me, I will come to that.
03:24I will come to you, please.
03:25Please, please have patience.
03:27George accused ignorant NGOs of creating a distorted image of India abroad.
03:33The MEA maintained that India's vibrant media landscape,
03:36constitutional framework, and democratic institutions speak for themselves.
03:42People have no understanding of the scale of India.
03:47People have no understanding.
03:49They read, you know, one or two news reports published by some godforsaken, ignorant NGOs,
04:00and then come and ask questions.
04:01Don't worry about it.
04:03We are proud to be a democracy.
04:05Ling described self as a former U.S. correspondent and now a commentator in a Norwegian newspaper.
04:12The message from Oslo was loud and clear.
04:15India will not stay silent when its democracy and institutions are questioned on international platforms.
04:21How to answer, these are my prerogatives.
04:24Bureau Report, India Today.
04:25Don't ask, answer, don't ask me to answer in a particular way.
04:30So let's talk about what really happened in Oslo.
04:33Let's go beyond the Oslo outrage.
04:36Ladies and gentlemen, journalism is not theatre.
04:39Our job is not to trend, perform, or manufacture viral moments.
04:45The job is to simply ask difficult questions, listen to the answers, and let the audience judge power for themselves.
04:53And I've been doing this for many, many years now.
04:56I've interviewed the Prime Minister during an election campaign in Bihar,
05:01when he was in the middle of the 2024 election campaign.
05:05I've sat across chief ministers and union ministers, some who wanted to answer, many who did not.
05:11The fundamental rule that I follow, ask the question, get the answer, and get out of the way.
05:17And it is that last part, the discipline of getting out of the way, that we urgently need to talk
05:23about.
05:24So in joint diplomatic press statement in Oslo, alongside Norwegian Prime Minister, Prime Minister Modi,
05:30began walking off the stage.
05:32So the commentator here, Hale Ling, shouted across the room, saying,
05:37Prime Minister Modi, why don't you take some questions from the freest press in the world?
05:42He kept walking, her clip went viral.
05:45The internet's applause, as expected, was there.
05:51And it wasn't because her question was wrong.
05:53The right to demand answers from power is something I will defend without a second thought.
05:57But what bothers me is that what we are watching wasn't journalism.
06:05It was an opening act.
06:07The moment a journalist becomes more invested in the confrontation than the response,
06:12the story stops being about accountability and starts becoming about attention.
06:17And there is a dangerous shift happening in modern media, where the clip matters more than the conversation.
06:26It is about virality now.
06:28A shouted question, a dramatic interruption, a perfectly packaged 15-second video,
06:34all designed for algorithms, not answers.
06:37There is also a crucial context that gets entirely buried under the digital noise.
06:43That very same evening, at the official press briefing, she was given exactly what she wanted.
06:51She was invited into the room.
06:53She was given the microphone.
06:54She stood up and asked the question that she wanted to ask.
06:58She had the floor.
07:00She just had to wait for the answers.
07:02Yet the moment the MEA secretary began responding, she proceeded to interrupt and talk over the reply.
07:09It forced the secretary to pause and state plainly,
07:12you ask a question, don't ask me to answer in a particular way.
07:16She even walked out of the room.
07:18The objective became very clear.
07:20The actual answer was never the objective.
07:22She even openly admitted on social media afterwards
07:26that she never expected Prime Minister Modi to answer her shouted query on the stage.
07:30She knew the protocol.
07:32She shouted anyway.
07:33The conclusion here is,
07:36we journalists are not the story.
07:39The answer is,
07:41real journalism requires a restrained preparation, patience,
07:45and the discipline to stay visibly away.
07:49Or should I say, to stay invisible while the story remains in focus.
07:55So, let me bring in two journalists who I respect immensely for the body of their work.
08:01Chitra Subramaniam is joining me from Geneva.
08:03She's a senior journalist.
08:04I have Neerja Chaudhary on the show as well,
08:07another senior journalist and columnist.
08:09And we have Veena Sikri, former diplomat, joining us.
08:13Chitra Subramaniam, beginning with you,
08:15what really happened in Oslo, according to you?
08:20I mean, I think it was a, for me, frankly, if you ask me,
08:24I think it was a comic, it was a comic situation where, you know,
08:29she just, she wanted to show off this, the lady.
08:34And she asked this question, as she said, of the Prime Minister.
08:38And then she didn't want an answer because she knew she was not going to get an answer.
08:41By the way, I know the Norwegian Prime Minister, Jonas Garstor,
08:45we worked together at the WHO.
08:47He's very dignified and I have a lot of respect for him.
08:50But more importantly, when there was that press conference where she was asked to come,
08:56she said something like, why should, why should we trust you?
08:59Or why should, in the, all that the MEA had to say that you don't have to trust us, right?
09:05Well, my issue is that we must not bend ourselves backwards to, to please everyone.
09:13I mean, we are now a growing, fast growing economy.
09:16There's something like claiming our space in the world.
09:19And if I were the MEA, I mean, I'm sure they have rights or they have rules to go by.
09:25If I were the MEA, I would not give a space or time.
09:29And in addition to that, she was extraordinarily rude, you know?
09:33So, to me, it's not journalism, as you said, so correctly, Maria,
09:38that the moment that you become the story, the journalist,
09:42then it's not journalism.
09:43It's just performance.
09:45So, Chitra Subramaniam, as a veteran journalist, I must use that word.
09:49I know you're not in agreement with that word.
09:52I've respected your work immensely for what you have done.
09:55Investigative journalism, you have broken stories.
09:58And that's what the real journalism is all about.
10:00You've asked the toughest questions.
10:02So, kudos to you, ma'am.
10:05As a journalist, was Ms. Ling doing journalism?
10:11No.
10:12In my view, no, she wasn't doing journalism.
10:15This is not what I would call journalism.
10:17I think, you know, it's this American...
10:21It started many years ago in America when, you know,
10:24people were facing tragedy or something happened.
10:26You sort of stuff a mic on their face and ask them what are they feeling.
10:30What do you want people to say?
10:33You know, and then they're on camera.
10:34You're just threatening people.
10:36She was threatening, you know.
10:38And she just walked out saying, oh, you know, I know you're not going to answer.
10:42I mean, where is Norway?
10:447 million people.
10:45And where is India?
10:471.4 billion people.
10:48I mean, you have to compare what's comparable, right?
10:51So, no, she was not doing journalism.
10:53I mean, she was doing self-promotion.
10:54And I'm sorry for her, that's all.
10:57I just feel sorry for her.
10:58Okay, I'm going to come back to you, ma'am.
11:00Meena Asikri, come in here.
11:02We have to make that distinction between press statement and press conference.
11:08What the two heads of state did was a press statement.
11:11So, what really is the protocol?
11:14The protocol is very clear that once it has been decided that the two prime ministers will not take questions
11:21from the press, that's the end of the story.
11:24There's no question of trying to waylay the prime minister, like a pop-up journalist, you know, trying to waylay
11:29the prime minister as he's moving out and shouting a question to him.
11:33It's completely against protocol and completely incorrect.
11:36There is no question of the prime minister responding to any such question thrown to him by this journalist from
11:43across the floor.
11:44In fact, I would ask the question, who allowed her to take the mic?
11:49Because according to protocol, when the protocol event has ended and it has been decided that there are no more
11:55questions to be asked of the two prime ministers, in full dignity, they should be allowed to leave the room.
12:00So, the mics are completely switched off at that time.
12:03There should be no functioning mic available.
12:05Somebody gave her a mic, which was functioning, which had, you know, still had the volume on, and she took
12:11full use of it and did a very non-protocol, non-journalist event.
12:15I fully agree with what Mr. Subramaniam has said, that this is not journalism at all.
12:19And I think that the fact that it is not journalism is illustrated even more strongly because when she was
12:26invited to the Indian embassy for the press conference by C.B. George, Secretary West,
12:32and she asked the question, and while he was replying, she walked out.
12:37So, she was not interested in his reply.
12:39She was only interested in the drama of the moment.
12:42She was interested in getting maximum publicity for herself.
12:45So, you, Veena Sikri, as a former diplomat, feel that this was a perfect viral moment that was created here?
12:53Absolutely.
12:54A viral moment created with ill intentions.
12:57I don't think this viral moment was created with any good intentions towards India or with genuine journalistic intent.
13:05I think it's a viral moment created deliberately with ill intentions, again, trying to show up India in a bad
13:11light.
13:12I mean, this question about India being 157 on the Press Freedom Index, India has always questioned these kind of
13:18parameters,
13:19whether it is the Press Freedom Index or the World Hunger Index or the Food Security Index or the Health
13:25Index, anything.
13:26India somewhere in the last, sometimes even below Afghanistan, sometimes below, you know, many countries in Africa.
13:31It's just the way it is in the world publicity scenario.
13:35They just like to show that.
13:37India may be getting on to be the third largest economy in the world, but they will not accept that,
13:42you know, these things are there.
13:43And these, India's positioning the parameters for these kind of press indices or other indices, India questions them all the
13:50time.
13:51How do you do it?
13:52How do you, how do you come to this conclusion?
13:54You know, for example, in, in, there was this, there's this world gender, global gender gap that is talked about
14:02in the World Economic Forum.
14:04India was like always, you know, quite high up in that, barely somewhere in the middle anyway.
14:08But suddenly, with some political shenanigans going on all over the world, suddenly India comes right at the bottom, right
14:16at the bottom.
14:16I mean, like, just with no explanation, with no indication that there's some major negative changes or anything like that.
14:23It's just that these things should not be taken at their face value.
14:27You have to question the parameters.
14:28Okay.
14:28Why?
14:29And I think this is exactly what I think these journalists, they take advantage of these situations to create the
14:35them moment.
14:36You know, it's their moment trying to show India in a bad light and say, we are the heroes or
14:41the heroines for doing this.
14:42And I think it's very easy to deliberately create such a moment, especially, as you said, you can get somebody
14:49to work with you to keep the mic on and allow you to throw that question across the floor.
14:53And then when the CB George wants to answer, then you walk out.
14:56Very good.
14:57So, the question here is, ma'am, that why should we trust India is coming at a time when, you
15:06know, Norway is among those nations which have awarded the highest civilian award to Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
15:12So, you know, there is that dichotomy as well at play here.
15:17But, Neerja Chowdhury, what really happened in Oslo, according to you?
15:21Was that journalism?
15:23Well, look, two things.
15:26One, I want to say, you know, Norway may be the freest democracy, freest country in the world, as this
15:34journalist claimed.
15:35But we don't need lectures from the Western world on our democracy.
15:42That is point number one.
15:43Their record today, and if you look at it with the issues that are coming up, is not something that,
15:52you know, they should be proud of either, whether there's migration or whether it's deporting Indians in handcuffs from the
15:58United States of America and so on.
16:01They have done well, they have done well, their institutions are strong in the Western world.
16:05I give them that.
16:07But it is, it was up to the Prime Minister to answer that question when she said to him that
16:13you are not answering questions, you are not taking questions.
16:17It is possible that earlier prime ministers may have, you know, replied with a joke or would have, you know,
16:26responded with a quip or, you know, or even given a one or two line answer in a situation like
16:32that, even if that question was not warranted or not expected.
16:36But this Prime Minister chose not to dignify that, and the situation is a little complicated because he may sense
16:45that these are questions, not ordinary Q&As, that there may be questions to frame him, to corner him deliberately.
16:54That may be the feeling that he may have, and as a result, he may not want to face that
17:01kind of a situation.
17:02But having said that, Maria, what I would say is forget the Western world, forget Norway, where he goes, it's
17:10up to the Prime Minister to decide whether he wants to face questions, take them or not, as do other
17:15Prime Ministers.
17:16Of course, Donald Trump uses the situation to face the media, but he humiliates the media.
17:21He calls them stupid, he calls them liars, he calls them all kinds of names.
17:25Well, that's his style, that's one way of doing it.
17:28But I would say that in his term, first, in his third term, I do hope his advisors, Prime Minister
17:36Modi's advisors may have advised him wrongly, but I do hope he will hold a press conference in India.
17:43That's the point here.
17:45You know, asking questions to power is something that all journalists must do.
17:51That's what we do.
17:52But when do we walk away, is the larger question also, Chitra Subramaniam.
17:57You wanted to come in, ma'am.
17:58Please go ahead.
18:00Yes, I mean, I agree with Madam Sikri that, you know, I don't agree with these listings or whatever they
18:08call, you know, when you list countries or being bottom of the pile on top of the pile.
18:13I mean, what are the parameters that you're using?
18:16No one tells us what the parameters are.
18:19You ask, what are the parameters?
18:21I mean, there's 7 million people.
18:22No way.
18:23We are 1.4 million people.
18:24So where do you start?
18:26First of all, that's never given to us.
18:28You can ask.
18:29And, you know, and I wrote, I shared a piece on X where I said that, you know, we lifted
18:35millions of people.
18:37I think it's almost 400 million people out of poverty over the last 10, no, over the last 15 years.
18:44They would never talk about it.
18:46They would never talk about these achievements.
18:49I mean, and let's not forget, we are a young country.
18:51You know, we are doing what we are can doing.
18:53And of course, there are mistakes.
18:55Who doesn't mistake?
18:56Who does not make mistakes?
18:57Only fools make no mistakes.
18:59So, you know, everything that we do is looked down upon, you know, as, you know, I mean, there are
19:05always stories in India that can be negative.
19:09I mean, you can be most Western correspondents.
19:11I'm sorry.
19:11They all live in Nizamuddin East.
19:13And then they, you know, ask questions of each other and they repeat each other.
19:17How many of them really go down?
19:19And coming back to Norway, I really want to make the point about the Epstein files.
19:23Yes, please go ahead.
19:24You know, there were so many people on it.
19:26Okay.
19:27Did they do any investigation afterwards?
19:30Once the names came out and there was one person who even took his life, there was no investigation in
19:36Oslo.
19:38Nothing happened.
19:39They just kept quiet.
19:40So, you know, this is not tit for tat.
19:42We don't have to fight with them.
19:43They can do their own thing.
19:45But then telling us, why should I trust you?
19:47I mean, it's galling, you know.
19:49And I just request, I'm just requesting the MEA and requesting the MEA through this, through your program, Maria, that
19:59we don't have to take these questions.
20:01We can just say we've noted your point and that's it.
20:04I just wish our ambassador would not have gone into a long explanation because that gives that person more ammunition.
20:12And yes, as my colleague, Nisja Choudhury said, yes, to advise the prime minister to have a press conference in
20:20India.
20:21You know, I mean, we can ask.
20:22I mean, you have to be civil.
20:24You know, and we know how to be civil.
20:26Maria, you know how this is done.
20:28We're not bouncing or taking.
20:29No one is trying to prove a point.
20:31So, we, you know, I agree with both my colleagues, but sorry, with Nisja Choudhury and Nadam Sikri, that, you
20:37know, there is a way to do things diplomatically and also media-wise.
20:42And we can do this in a very civil way.
20:46But given the kind of attention that this entire episode has gathered, Nisja Choudhury, we can ask questions and we
20:54must ask questions.
20:56But then there's something that horribly went wrong here.
21:00Yeah, there's something that went horribly wrong.
21:03Yes, you're right in terms of it's gone viral.
21:06It shows India in a bad light.
21:09Now, it isn't as a prime minister Modi cannot answer any of the difficult questions.
21:14You know, those of us who've had informal sittings with him and he's had several with media personalities, you know,
21:20informally, not on record.
21:23Some have been on record.
21:24He answers every question and they include difficult questions.
21:28That's, you know, off the record.
21:30Now, he's able to answer on record all those questions.
21:35So I don't doubt that he's not able to.
21:37But he's decided as a policy, as a strategy, not to do it.
21:43And I think that's where even when he goes abroad to have a press conference is not a bad idea
21:52at all.
21:53And certainly in India, where he's not held a press conference since 2014, to hold it is, I think, would
22:01be a very good thing to do.
22:02As for, as I said earlier, that, I mean, it's unfortunate the way it's happened.
22:10And many in India feel the looking at it, that was then an attempt being made deliberately to corner him
22:17or was it an attempt, a genuine attempt by the media in Norway to seek answers, whether it's the human
22:25rights record or other things.
22:27I mean, the Prime Minister will be able to answer those questions.
22:31No doubt about that.
22:32Okay.
22:32I've just enough time for Veena Sikri.
22:34You get the last word, ma'am.
22:35Please go ahead.
22:36You know, I want to say that, first of all, the question of Prime Minister answering the lady journalist at
22:43that moment did not arise because, A, the Prime Minister did not even have a mic in his hand.
22:48He was leaving the room.
22:49And I think there was no question from protocol or any other point of view of the Prime Minister turning
22:54back and then, you know, being handed a mic.
22:57I don't think that situation would have been allowed to arise at all given protocol, number one.
23:01Number two, the next best thing was getting the, you know, the journalist to come to the press conference being
23:06held by the Secretary in the Ministry of External Affairs.
23:09And we know what happened there.
23:11Again, just a moment of putting yourself in the limelight without any interest, just trying to show India in a
23:16bad light.
23:17When you talk of her tweet or saying that Norway is number one in the World Press Freedom Index, we
23:23all know what happened between Norway and China.
23:25Because ever since Norway, the Nobel Peace Prize was given to the Chinese dissident way back in 2010, for the
23:33next 10 years, China refused to import Norwegian salmon.
23:39And then in the end, the Prime Minister of Norway had to go to China, eat humble pie, say, yes,
23:45we'll do this.
23:45You are great people.
23:46You have great development.
23:47And they actually capitulated and signed a joint document.
23:50Then it was revived.
23:51So we all know what countries do.
23:53We all know what is the situation within Norway on children, for example.
23:58We all know what happened to Mrs. Chatterjee.
24:00We know, we are aware of all that.
24:02But we develop our relations bilaterally in the overall mutual interest of a win-win situation.
24:08And that's how it is.
24:08Sikri, really appreciate your time.
24:10Thank you, ma'am.
24:11Chitra Subramaneman, Neerja Chaudhary.
24:12Pleasure having you on my shows.
24:14Thank you for your time and sharing your thoughts.
24:16A piece of breaking news coming in now.
24:23Finance Minister Nirmala Sita Raman has slammed the Congress over fear-mongering.
24:28The Finance Minister has said that serving every sector and section of society, she has gone on to say,
24:35we are focused on welfare of the common man.
24:39Finance Minister has advised the Congress Party that they should stop being obstructionists.
24:45And the responsible opposition doesn't engage in fear-mongering.
24:51Remember earlier, Rahul Gandhi had lashed out at the government over fuel price high
24:55and had warned of an economic storm.
24:58Listen in to what Rahul Gandhi had said.
25:00I have told many days that Modi's economy has changed the structure that has changed the economy in the economy.
25:13Now there is a storm coming in.
25:15And they have the structure that has made, the Adani-Ambani, that will not stand up, that will break the
25:21whole house.
25:22ुप की बात है कि नुकसान आम जनता को मतलब वो अपने महलों में बैठे रहेंगे और यूपी के जो
25:30यूवा है यूपी की जो जनता है उनको पूरा का पूरा शौक उनको लगेगे तो बहुत-बहुत कठिन समय आ
25:39रहा है
25:52With that we have come to the end of this news track show
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