- 15 hours ago
In a dramatic turn in the excise policy case, Delhi High Court judge Justice Swarna Kanta Sharma on Thursday recused herself from the case after initiating criminal contempt proceedings against Arvind Kejriwal and other AAP leaders over remarks targeting the court.
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00:02Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary. Our top focus, two cracker of debates lined up for
00:08you.
00:08But first up, as usual, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:16Your fuel gets costlier from today. Petrol and diesel prices go up by rupees three per litre across India.
00:22CNG prices up by two per kilogram. Politics erupts over fuel hike. Opposition hits out at the Modi government.
00:29BJP defence.
00:35Days after Prime Minister Modi bachat messaged 50 per cent Supreme Court staff to work from home.
00:41Judges to carpool. Virtual hearing on Monday and Fridays.
00:51After leakage, need re-examination on June 21st.
00:54Union Education Mantri breaks silence, assures strict CBI probe into leakage, says re-examination because government wants merit over mafia.
01:17After handshake and hugs in UAE, Prime Minister Modi departs for Netherlands.
01:21UAE President MBZ personally sees off Modi. Prime Minister bats for peace in West Asia. Condemned strikes on UAE.
01:36Big win for Hinducide in Bhojshala matter.
01:39Madhya Pradesh High Court declares Bhojshala, a Saraswati temple, asks the Muslim side to approach government for separate land.
01:52Bengal Chief Minister Sowendu suspends ex-Kolkatha CP over RG Corp case.
01:57Sowendu says RG Corp case was mishandled then.
02:00Seats report from Hope Department on Cops Rule.
02:16All right, big development coming in in the NEAT paper league case.
02:19NEAT UG paper league kingpin has finally been arrested by the CBI.
02:23PV Kulkarni, chemistry lecturer, was involved in the process of examination on behalf of NTA.
02:29He had access to the question papers.
02:31PV Kulkarni has now been arrested at Pune.
02:34After a thorough interrogation, he originally belongs to Latour.
02:38In the last 24 hours, CBI has also conducted searches at several locations across the country
02:44and seen several incriminating documents, evidence, electronic gadgets and mobile phones.
02:49Detailed forensic technical analysis of the seized item is going on.
02:54But the latest is that the mole who leaked the NEAT paper was from the NTA.
03:03That's the latest and he has now been arrested.
03:05To give you details of that, PV Kulkarni has been arrested from Pune.
03:11Who PV Kulkarni was?
03:13He was a chemistry lecturer involved in the process of examination on behalf of NTA.
03:18So he was part of the National Testing Agency.
03:23This is also somewhere down the line, viewers, egg on the face of NTA.
03:27From 2024, there has been a repeated demand for a clean-up and a re-look where NTA comes into
03:33question.
03:33I want to quickly cut across to my colleague, Devesh, who is breaking this news in India today.
03:37Devesh, give us more details.
03:39PV Kulkarni, a professor, a chemistry professor and was involved in the entire process of the examination and the papers.
03:48He was a part of the NTA, I believe.
03:51Will you give us more details?
03:57Well, PV Kulkarni is a professor.
04:00He's a retired professor.
04:01He used to work as a chemistry professor at Dayanand College in Latour.
04:06After that, he was running private coaching classes for NEET preparation at Latour itself.
04:13Latour is an educational hub.
04:15It's a district where a lot of NEET aspirants go to prepare for NEET examinations.
04:21And it is one of the hubs, educational hubs in the state of Maharashtra.
04:25PV Kulkarni was running these private coaching classes and also was part of the NTA, which set up the paper,
04:34the question paper for NEET examination 2026.
04:37His role came to light when Manisha Wagmare from Pune was arrested.
04:42Now, let me bring in the grid, the network.
04:45Shubham Khernar from Nashik, he has been arrested.
04:48Shubham Khernar supplied the paper to Yesh Yadav in Gurugram.
04:52Yesh Yadav supplied the paper to Bival family in Rajasthan.
04:58And from there, the case came to light.
05:00Now, Shubham Khernar has links to Dhananjaya Lokhande.
05:03Dhananjaya Lokhande has been arrested from Ailyanagar in Maharashtra.
05:06Dhananjaya Lokhande has links to Manisha Wagmare in Pune.
05:09Manisha Wagmare has been arrested.
05:11And Manisha Wagmare had links to Professor PV Kulkarni in Latour,
05:16who had been a participant in setting up the NEET examination paper for the 2026 examinations.
05:24And now, he has been arrested.
05:26We had highlighted this on India Today a few hours ago that PV Kulkarni has been taken to Delhi.
05:33He has been detained by CBI.
05:35And he is a suspect in leakage of the NEET examination paper 2026.
05:43And now, it has been confirmed by the CBI that PV Kulkarni has been arrested.
05:47He is one of the key accused who leaked the NEET 2026 question paper.
05:53Over to you.
05:54All right, Dinesh.
05:55Appreciate you joining us with all the details.
05:56The kingpin apparently has been arrested.
05:58He was part of the NTA.
06:00He was employed by the NTA for paper setting.
06:03His name is Professor Kulkarni, PV Kulkarni to be precise, a chemistry professor.
06:08We are going to continue getting you the details on how the entire web was cast
06:13and who were the main people involved.
06:16And it, at least for now, leads to one individual, Professor PV Kulkarni,
06:22who has been arrested now from Pune.
06:24He was employed by the NTA.
06:26The National Testing Agency also has enough to answer on this account.
06:30All right, we're going to continue tracking the details coming in,
06:34but let's quickly shift focus to a developing story,
06:37which many could suggest could lead to judicial precedent.
06:41The Delhi High Court judge, Justice Swarnakanta Sharma,
06:44has finally recused herself from hearing the excise policy case
06:48involving Arvind Kejriwal and many other leaders from the Amadmi Party.
06:53All of this after allegations from the Amadmi Party of quid pro quo,
06:57conflict of interest and bias.
06:59At the same time, she's initiated contempt of court proceedings
07:02against Arvind Kejriwal and many leaders from the Amadmi Party,
07:06where she says that disparaging statements were made on her account,
07:11especially on social media,
07:13and an attempt to intimidate the judiciary.
07:16This move now leads to many questions.
07:20Bias, conflict of interest, and will this set precedent?
07:23Because here you had a political leader
07:25who questioned a judge hearing his case, calling her biased,
07:29said that she had conflict of interest,
07:31and at the back of it, the judge has recused herself from the case.
07:41New twist to the judicial drama.
07:44Justice Swarnakanta recuses herself from hearing excise case
07:49while at the same time moving contempt of court against Kejriwal.
07:53Meanwhile, Arvind Kejriwal has called the development a victory,
07:57claiming that truth has triumphed.
07:59High court judge Justice Swarnakanta Sharma
08:02on Thursday initiated criminal contempt proceedings
08:06against our pleaders.
08:07The judge said she will not be hearing the CBI's revision plea
08:11against the discharge of Arvind Kejriwal and others in the matter.
08:16While our Amadmi Party leaders initially sought her recusal
08:19over concerns regarding her children's legal roles and previous rulings,
08:24Justice Sharma initially rejected this plea
08:26before later transferring the case.
08:30The judge maintained that a judge who initiates contempt proceedings
08:34cannot hear the main case,
08:36calling her action judicial discipline
08:38rather than a concession to the recusal plea.
08:43Justice Swarnakanta Sharma,
08:44while ordering contempt proceedings,
08:47said,
08:47I refuse to be intimidated.
08:49In a strongly worded order,
08:51Justice Sharma said vilifying remarks were made against her.
08:55She alleged that Arvind Kejriwal and Amadmi Party attempted to intimidate the court.
09:00The order further stated that her family was dragged into a digital smear campaign
09:05using edited videos.
09:07She also said a false narrative was created through a coordinated digital campaign.
09:13Now the bigger question arises.
09:15Does this episode highlight judicial discipline in sensitive cases
09:19or does it open up fresh debate on perception and precedent in high-profile political trials?
09:25And will this set a new precedent for how future politically sensitive cases are handled by the judiciary?
09:33Bureau Report, India Today.
09:39I want to quickly cut across to Mr. Vikas Singh,
09:41former traditional solicitor general of India,
09:44President, Supreme Court Bar Association.
09:47Mr. Singh, thank you for taking the time out and joining us.
09:49I want to get an understanding of what has really gone down
09:52because politically this is being milked as a political win of sorts,
09:56but does it set precedent?
09:57Where a judge now steps back, recuses herself from the case,
10:02it can happen again where, you know,
10:04a particular judge is hearing a case involving a politician.
10:07The politician can make a quid pro quo,
10:10bias allegations, conflict of interest allegations,
10:12and the judge will have to step back.
10:15Well, this is a case, you know,
10:17where I feel that what the judge has done now by,
10:21you know, issuing criminal contempt,
10:23she's not doing any, you know,
10:25she's not getting any good image for the judiciary.
10:28This was one case where,
10:29because she had dealt with the matter,
10:31at the pre, you know, discharge stage,
10:35and she had actually felt that there was a case for charges made out,
10:39and she had rejected bail by detailed orders,
10:42she should not have heard the matter in the first instance herself.
10:45Now, when a recusal application was made,
10:48I don't understand why should a judge be interested in hearing a matter.
10:51If she has heard the matter, the very matter,
10:53then there is no question of her wanting to hear the matter again,
10:57when the matter progresses to a different stage,
11:01or a later stage in the same proceeding.
11:04I am reminded of an order by Justice A.S. Anand,
11:07when he was in the Supreme Court.
11:09If I remember correctly, it was Variku.
11:11Some Variku was the party.
11:13And he had dealt with the matter in the high court,
11:17not decided the matter, but just issued notice or at a preliminary hearing.
11:21And when the matter came to Supreme Court,
11:24nobody told him that he had dealt with the matter,
11:26and then he heard the matter, and then it was,
11:27the matter was placed in review.
11:29He, in a judicial order, Supreme Court reported judgment,
11:32has said that it is the duty of the council to inform the court
11:36that if he has dealt with the same matter at an earlier stage,
11:40he should not hear the matter.
11:42And he was actually, he rebuked the lawyers for not telling him
11:45that he had dealt with the matter.
11:46Now, here, when Mr. Kejriwal is telling her
11:49that she should not hear the matter,
11:51and this is a fresh matter,
11:52she must be aware that she had dealt with this matter
11:55prior to the discharge.
11:57Of course, yeah.
11:58I don't see why she should have not immediately recused it.
12:00By doing this, you know, she's giving more,
12:03the judiciary is not getting a good image in this whole process.
12:07But Mr. Singh, can you help us understand?
12:09Because, yes, she had heard the matter earlier.
12:11Even at that time, it wasn't, you know,
12:14at least the Ahmad Mibati and Arvind Kejriwal
12:16hadn't taken her head on in court,
12:18saying that we are not going to attend
12:19if she's the one presiding over the case.
12:21But enough noises were made in the, you know,
12:24in the backdrop.
12:25But my question is something
12:27which concerns precedent, Mr. Singh.
12:30Because from here on,
12:32you have a political party
12:33that has attributed motive.
12:35They say that she's biased.
12:37She's ideologically inclined.
12:38They say there was quid pro quo involved.
12:40There was conflict of interest
12:41where her family members were concerned.
12:43When a political party makes allegations such as this,
12:47and then the judge recuses herself,
12:49can this then be quoted as precedent?
12:52So, every case will go on its own facts.
12:55And I don't think this is linked now in any law.
12:58In fact, there are enough judgments of Supreme Court
13:00where judges have refused to recuse
13:03and gone ahead and decided the matter.
13:05So, she should have also gone ahead
13:07and decided the matter
13:08rather than following this course.
13:09Either you say that a case for recusal
13:12is not made out,
13:13so then you go ahead and decide the matter.
13:15This is something very strange,
13:16that you actually recuse from the matter,
13:18but you say,
13:19no, no, but I'll rock contempt proceedings.
13:21And anybody who's putting it on Twitter
13:24or saying it anywhere,
13:26this is a fundamental right,
13:28a very important fundamental right
13:31of dissemination of information.
13:35And if this can be used as a criminal contempt,
13:38I think it's a very dangerous precedent.
13:40The First Amendment to the Constitution
13:42also was to preserve this very right of free speech.
13:45And this includes free speech.
13:47So, I don't see why she's been so sensitive
13:50on what has been published, etc.
13:53And if I remember correctly,
13:55the issues raised were not with regard
13:56to her personal bias.
13:59It was more with regard to her,
14:01I would say,
14:03having made up her mind on a particular issue.
14:06And accordingly,
14:07she will be hearing the matter with a closed mind.
14:10And the way she dealt with the appeal
14:12on the very first date,
14:13the way she granted an interim order
14:15on the very first date,
14:17that also accordingly didn't inspire confidence
14:19in a matter like this,
14:20where she should have issued notice,
14:23heard the accused before.
14:24It was a discharge.
14:26It's a very valuable right
14:27which has happened in favor of an accused.
14:30And after the discharge,
14:31you don't even serve the accused
14:35and don't wait for him to appear in the matter.
14:37It's to pass an interim order
14:38with scathing comments.
14:40I don't think it was in good taste
14:44for her to have done all that
14:45and then not refuse.
14:47One final question, Mr. Singh,
14:49before I let you go,
14:50does this somewhere down the line
14:51further add to the distrust
14:54that there is
14:54where our political class is concerned
14:56and the judiciary?
14:58Because increasingly,
14:59we are hearing, you know,
15:01very vocally at that.
15:03Because I don't know,
15:03when was the last time
15:04when you had a political leader
15:07come out and say
15:08that I don't want this judge
15:09to hear my case
15:10because I think she's biased
15:11and ideologically inclined
15:13towards a particular party?
15:15Well, this is a very unique case
15:17in that sense.
15:18And I don't see any political party
15:20having done this
15:21in the recent past
15:22saying that I don't want
15:23this judge to hear the matter.
15:24All kinds of judges hear
15:25all kinds of matters
15:27and this is very rarely raised.
15:29So I don't think
15:30this is going to be any precedent
15:31and this is not going to lay down
15:33any law or any future,
15:34for any future guidance of people,
15:37you know.
15:38In fact, on the contrary,
15:39if she had recused
15:40from the very beginning,
15:41she would have set up
15:42a very good judicial president
15:44and show the institution
15:46in better light.
15:48So I think
15:49this criminal contempt
15:50is further dragging
15:52the institution
15:53into controversy
15:53rather than, you know,
15:55trying to show
15:55that the institution
15:56is getting
15:58sort of
15:59a better name
16:01by proceeding
16:02doing this criminal contempt.
16:04Mr. Singh,
16:05thank you for taking
16:05the time out this evening
16:06and joining us in India today.
16:07We highly appreciate it.
16:08Thank you, sir.
16:09I'm joined now
16:10by Justice Sanjeev Banerjee,
16:11former Chief Justice
16:12of Meghalia High Court,
16:13former judge,
16:14Priyanka Kakkar,
16:15National Spokesperson,
16:16Ahmad Mipati,
16:17Sanju Verma,
16:18National Spokesperson,
16:19BJP.
16:19I'm really going to try
16:20and not put a timer
16:21to this debate today
16:22because we do have
16:23a former judge.
16:24I want to keep it
16:25free-flowing,
16:25but I would really hope
16:26that all our panelists
16:27respect that
16:28and if not,
16:29we'll be forced
16:30to put a timer
16:31on this debate.
16:32I want to go across
16:33first to Mr. Justice
16:34Sanjeev Banerjee.
16:35Justice Banerjee,
16:37with how things
16:38have played out
16:39because politically
16:40the Ahmad Mipati
16:41is saying
16:41this is a big win
16:42for us.
16:43We were very clear
16:44that the judge
16:45was biased,
16:46politically inclined.
16:47There was quid pro quo
16:48involved.
16:49There was a conflict
16:49of interest.
16:51With the judge
16:52now recusing herself,
16:55while legal opinion
16:56says that every case
16:57is going to be different,
16:58it will not set precedent,
16:59but it's somewhere
17:00down the line
17:01further embeds
17:03the distrust
17:03that there is
17:04between the judiciary
17:05and our political class
17:06which now suddenly
17:08is finding
17:09vocal space.
17:17Can you hear me,
17:18Justice Banerjee?
17:21Okay, I think
17:22there's an audio problem
17:23with Justice Banerjee.
17:24I can't hear anything.
17:25I don't know whether you can.
17:26Okay, I don't think
17:27he can hear us.
17:28We're going to quickly
17:28try and connect to him.
17:30I want to cut across
17:31right now.
17:31Let's go across
17:32to our spokesperson
17:33and we'll try
17:33and attempt to go back
17:34to Justice Banerjee.
17:36Sanju Verma,
17:36let me come to you first.
17:38You heard the legal opinion
17:40on that.
17:40We'll also bring in
17:41Justice Banerjee at it.
17:43How do you read
17:44the developments?
17:45Because this has come
17:46at the back
17:47of a political leader
17:49who has said
17:49that, listen,
17:50you are biased.
17:52There's a conflict
17:53of interest
17:53and you're ideologically
17:55inclined to a particular
17:56political thought
17:57which I don't belong
17:58to that political thought.
18:00And then
18:01the judge,
18:02though, files.
18:03All right,
18:04we do have
18:04Justice Banerjee,
18:05we're going to cut across
18:06to him,
18:06but Sanju Verma,
18:07and then,
18:08you know,
18:09she files contempt
18:10of court.
18:11She says that
18:11there has been
18:12disparaging statements
18:14made by the
18:14armed Admi party
18:15leaders against her,
18:16but she recuses
18:17herself from the case.
18:18Many would think
18:18she should have
18:19done it earlier.
18:20What is the messaging
18:21in all of this,
18:21Sanju Verma?
18:23First and foremost,
18:24let me make one thing
18:25very clear.
18:27Justice Swarnakanka Sharma
18:28is not the accused.
18:31Accused is
18:31Arvind Kejriwal.
18:33Accused is
18:33Manish Sisodia.
18:35Accused is
18:35Sanjay Singh.
18:37Accused is
18:37Saurabh Bhardwaj.
18:39Accused is
18:39Durgesh Pathak.
18:41I fail to understand
18:42if Arvind Kejriwal
18:43says,
18:44oh,
18:44I think
18:45Swarnakanka Sharma
18:46is politically aligned
18:47and has an ideology
18:48which is different
18:49from mine,
18:50how does that make
18:51Kejriwal
18:52holier than thou?
18:53I fail to understand
18:54this.
18:55Kapil Sibal
18:56kept fighting
18:57against
18:57Ram Mandir.
18:58and everybody
18:59said,
19:00Jeeva.
19:00The ideological
19:02leanings of
19:03Kapil Sibal
19:04were never put
19:05to question.
19:06Abhishek Manu
19:07Singhvi always
19:07picks up those
19:08cases which are
19:10anti-establishment.
19:12But people say,
19:13wow,
19:13Abhishek Manu
19:14Singhvi is doing
19:14a phenomenal job.
19:16Nobody ever
19:16questions Abhishek
19:17Manu Singhvi's
19:18anti-BJP
19:19leanings.
19:21Why is it
19:21that Justice
19:22Swarnakanta Sharma
19:24is not allowed
19:24to have a
19:25political ideology?
19:26Why is it
19:27that Justice
19:27Swarnakanta Sharma
19:29is not allowed
19:30to have a
19:30political ideology?
19:31At the cost
19:32of interrupting
19:32you,
19:33the reason why
19:33there's a
19:34very clear
19:35difference
19:35because one
19:36is a lawyer
19:36and the other
19:37one is a judge.
19:37And I would
19:38think that
19:40distinction is
19:41very,
19:41very clear.
19:42Thank you,
19:43Preeti.
19:43I'm glad you
19:44made that point
19:44because this is
19:45what I have to
19:46say now to you
19:47because I know
19:47you come very
19:48well prepared
19:49and so do I.
19:50Justice Ranganath
19:51Mishra gave
19:52a clean shit
19:53to the Congress
19:54and Rajiv Gandhi
19:55after the
19:56anti-Sikh
19:571984 genocide
19:59and after that
20:00Ranganath Mishra
20:01was made a
20:02Rajya Sabha
20:03member on a
20:03Congress nomination.
20:05Nobody questioned
20:06the Congress
20:07party.
20:08Nobody questioned
20:08Ranganath Mishra
20:09or Rajiv Gandhi.
20:10Then let me
20:11give you the
20:11example of
20:12Justice Baharul
20:13Islam resigned
20:14from the Supreme
20:15Court in 1983
20:16and got elected
20:18as a Congress
20:18member of
20:19Parliament.
20:20in the
20:20Rajya Sabha
20:21Baharul
20:22Islam
20:22ki political
20:23ideology
20:24kya thi?
20:25Kitne
20:25journalists
20:26ne
20:26is par
20:27question mark
20:28uthaya?
20:29None.
20:30Justice M.
20:31Rama Joyce
20:32served as the
20:33Chief Justice
20:34of Punjab and
20:34Haryana High
20:35Court before
20:36becoming a
20:37member of the
20:37BJP and being
20:38appointed as a
20:39governor.
20:40So there are
20:40examples where
20:41it has happened
20:42with the BJP
20:43and with the
20:44Congress Party.
20:44But I am openly
20:45saying, so what
20:47if a judge has
20:48political leanings?
20:49That does not
20:50take away from
20:51the professional
20:51credibility of a
20:53judge.
20:53My last point,
20:54Preeti.
20:54There is a man,
20:55and this man I
20:56have to make a
20:57special mention of.
20:58Bear with me for
20:5920 seconds.
21:00There is a man
21:01called Justice
21:01Abhay Thipse.
21:03He maligned
21:04Amit Shah for the
21:05longest time in
21:07the Justice
21:08Lawyer case.
21:09He was hearing
21:10Amit Shah's case
21:11in the Justice
21:11Lawyer matter in
21:12Bombay High Court.
21:13One minute.
21:14He resigned from
21:16the Bombay High
21:17Court, and do
21:17you know, within
21:17two months, he
21:19was inducted as a
21:19bona fide Congress
21:20member.
21:21All right, ma'am,
21:22I'm trying to
21:23allow me to go to
21:24the other guests
21:25now, and I will
21:25circle back to you
21:26because you made,
21:27you named a number
21:29of judges that were
21:30given post-retirement
21:32plum posts by the
21:34Congress.
21:34All of these were
21:35discussed, and it's
21:35terrible that they
21:37did, that the
21:37Congress did so, and
21:38all of these names
21:39were taken when
21:40Justice Gogoi, without
21:41a cooling-off period,
21:42was given a Rajya
21:43Sabha seed.
21:44So, it happened
21:45during the BJP's
21:46term, it happened
21:47during the Congress's
21:47term, it makes it
21:48none the better, and
21:49I think one needs to
21:50accept that.
21:51I want to cut across
21:52now, Priyanka Kakar,
21:53I'll come to you,
21:53allow me to bring in
21:54Justice Sanjeeb
21:55Banerjee because we're
21:55trying very hard to
21:56steer away from a
21:58tutu-mehmeh type of
21:59a debate, so I'm
22:00going to bring in
22:00Justice Banerjee, and
22:01I'll come to Priyanka
22:02Kakar after that.
22:03Justice Banerjee, you
22:05have a judge who is
22:06charged of bias by a
22:07political party.
22:08She recuses herself, at
22:09the same time, she
22:10files for contempt.
22:11How do you view the
22:12entire situation?
22:13Because many would now
22:14seem that this has
22:16opened, you know, the
22:18doors to now other
22:20political leaders coming
22:21out and alleging similar
22:23kind of bias.
22:25It's very unsavory and
22:26could have been avoided.
22:28If the judge had expressed
22:30a view at an earlier
22:31stage, the judge should
22:33have realized that there
22:34was a possibility of
22:38prejudice, which was
22:39and a likelihood of
22:41bias, you know.
22:42Bias does not have to
22:43be actual.
22:44As long as there is a
22:45likelihood of bias, that
22:47is enough.
22:47And I think it should
22:48have been given a quiet
22:50burial by the judge
22:51recusing herself.
22:52This is, what this
22:54brings to the fore, of
22:55course, is also the
22:57appointments that have
22:59happened in the higher
23:00judiciary over the
23:01last 10 or 12 years.
23:04And, you know, more
23:06and more politically
23:08aware or politically
23:10inclined judges have
23:12been appointed or
23:15persons have been
23:15appointed with political
23:16leanings.
23:17That is doing a great
23:19disservice to the
23:20judiciary.
23:21The lady from BJP took
23:23several names.
23:25I don't think anyone
23:26raised a finger against
23:27Justice Baharul Islam
23:29when Justice Baharul
23:30Islam was in the
23:30Supreme Court.
23:31To also reminder that
23:33Justice Krishna
23:34Iyer, probably regarded
23:35as one of the greatest
23:37judges India has ever
23:38produced, was a
23:40Communist Party ticket
23:41holder.
23:42So, therefore, you know,
23:43they differ from, you
23:46know, case to case.
23:47But there are two things
23:48which are important.
23:49A judge, particularly of
23:52the higher judiciary, should
23:54really have no ambition
23:55and should not have too
23:57much of an ego.
23:59these kind of drive you
24:01in the wrong direction.
24:03This is not good for the
24:05judiciary and I'm so sad
24:08that the judiciary is, you
24:09know, coming into
24:10limelight for the wrong
24:12reasons over some time
24:15now.
24:15And we've got to clean up
24:18the house, ensure how the
24:20process of appointment is
24:21cleansed up.
24:24And it's sad.
24:26As a former judge, I feel
24:29extremely distraught at the
24:32recent happenings.
24:34Mr. Banerjee, I'm going to
24:35come to you because, you
24:36know, one can feel sad, but
24:38now what?
24:39Because what you've opened the
24:40doors to it is tomorrow you
24:42could have any case because
24:44it's never happened before.
24:45I don't remember the last time
24:46a political leader or, you
24:48know, the head of a political
24:50party has come out and said,
24:51I don't want you to preside
24:52over my case because I think
24:53you're biased.
24:54You know, to say it, verbalize
24:56it and actually say it and
24:58then you have a judge who has
24:59to, over time, recuse
25:01herself.
25:01Many would have thought she
25:02should have just done it
25:03earlier in the spirit of the
25:04judiciary and that hasn't
25:05quite happened.
25:06I'll circle back to you on
25:06that.
25:07I want to bring in Priyanka
25:08Kaker back into this
25:09conversation.
25:09Priyanka Kaker, you know,
25:11you have what you're calling
25:12today a political win is just
25:14a judge recusing herself.
25:16You know, she doesn't want it
25:18to get more vitiated.
25:20She's also filed contempt
25:21charges where she says that
25:23there has been a deliberate
25:24attempt by Mr. Kejriwal and
25:26other members of your party to
25:27defame her.
25:28An attached motive.
25:34Let me first begin by please
25:36addressing two things that
25:37Sanju Verma Ji of the BJP said.
25:39One, let me please clarify that
25:40Arvind Kejriwal and Abadmi
25:42leaders have been discharged.
25:44They're not an accused.
25:45So, please refer to them
25:46properly with respect.
25:48Secondly, she also said, so
25:50what if a judge has political
25:52leanings?
25:52I'm joined on this debate by
25:55really esteemed panelists here.
25:56So, you can ask what how
25:58politically incorrect or even
26:00otherwise incorrect that
26:01statement is because judicial
26:03independence and judicial
26:05integrity, you just cannot say
26:08this.
26:08It is in ki shamelessness to
26:10this extent that this is what
26:12they're saying.
26:12It appalls me as a lawyer.
26:13Now, also coming to this, see
26:15from the very inception,
26:17Arvind Kejriwal ji and other
26:18armed army party leaders had a
26:19very simple demand that they
26:22apprehend bias in their mind
26:24because of XYZ factors.
26:26Twelve reasons were given and
26:27they respectfully submitted that
26:29kindly recuse yourself from this
26:31case.
26:31We have the utmost respect for
26:33judiciary.
26:33Please let me also state that on
26:35record because it is this
26:36judiciary which gave us the
26:39discharge order.
26:40It is this judiciary which under
26:41the PMLA case also said that
26:43the ED dweesh ki baamna se kaam
26:45kar rahi thi.
26:46This is written in the order.
26:47It is this judiciary, this
26:48Supreme Court which also hold up
26:51the CBI and even call them
26:52crooks at one point.
26:53That is how they were working.
26:54But in this particular matter,
26:56because of past, because of the
26:58past orders that we had had and
27:00because of like Mr.
27:02Vikas Singh very rightly pointed out
27:04before me that the matter when it
27:07came, even before giving an
27:08opportunity to the accused.
27:10So you're saying your hand was
27:11forced to make the claims and
27:14the allegations that you did.
27:15That's what you're saying Priyanka.
27:17I would want to give all of you
27:18just two minutes time each.
27:20Exactly two minutes.
27:21Let's get the timer on.
27:22And I'll come back to you ma'am.
27:23Allow me to come back to you.
27:24You'll get your two minutes.
27:25Make your point there.
27:26So I want to give, let's get the
27:28timer back on and I want to bring
27:29in Sanjeeb Banerjee first and
27:30then I'll cut across to the two
27:31ladies.
27:32Mr. Banerjee, you know, coming
27:34back now to the situation that we're
27:37in, because tomorrow now you've
27:39opened the floodgates to any
27:40political party, any political
27:42leader who'll come out and say,
27:43I think you're biased because
27:45there was a certain level of
27:47reverence that you had the
27:48judiciary at.
27:49And today that halo somewhere
27:52down the line is gone.
27:55It is primarily in the manner and
27:58mode of appointment, primarily the
28:01people who are being picked and
28:03chosen sometimes ahead of others
28:06at every level.
28:08And the other thing is that if it
28:12is true, I don't know if it is
28:13true, why should a judge be
28:15visiting any political, you know,
28:18celebration or anywhere which bears a
28:21political platform?
28:22These are things which are not
28:24expected of a judge.
28:25And if that gives rise to a likelihood
28:31of bias and it is so expressed, the
28:34judge should accept that and not
28:36carry the matter forward by issuing
28:38contempt mortises and bring even, you
28:42know, more rubbish into the system, so
28:46to say.
28:47It is painful.
28:49The independence of the judiciary is now
28:52seriously questioned.
28:54And if people lose faith in the
28:57judiciary, then everything in
28:59democracy is gone.
29:00That's the last place where people can
29:03run to to save their rights.
29:05And the courts are supposed to respect
29:07rights, respect citizens and recognize
29:09rights for them.
29:11And if the faith in the judiciary erodes,
29:13there's nothing left of democracy.
29:17All right, sir.
29:17Fair point.
29:18I want to cut across now to Sanju
29:19Verma and I'll bring in Priyanka
29:21Kakkar.
29:21You have two minutes each, Sanju Verma,
29:23to put your point forward.
29:24Go ahead.
29:32Go ahead, Sanju Verma.
29:34Can you hear me?
29:37Sanju Verma, can you hear me?
29:40All right, there's a problem with the
29:42audio.
29:42Okay, we're going to try and connect to
29:43Sanju Verma.
29:43Let's bring in Priyanka Kakkar first.
29:45Priyanka Kakkar, I want to bring you
29:46back for two minutes.
29:47Your time starts now because you also
29:49now face contempt charges, not just
29:51Arvind Kejriwal, but your entire top
29:54brass of the party, which includes the
29:56likes of Manish Sasodia, Atishi,
30:00Saurabh Bhardwaj, all of them.
30:06Well, Ptg, that is also pretty astonishing
30:08to me because on one hand, the judge
30:10sahib said that there was a social media
30:13campaign, but then again singled out only
30:15Amadmi party leaders.
30:16And if you will look at the video of Arvind Kejriwal
30:19Mehta Ji, for instance, he has only said that
30:21I don't believe I will get justice here
30:24because judge sahiba goes to RSS programs.
30:26And secondly, because the central government
30:28gives crores in fees to her children and
30:30that the Tushar Mehta Ji, the solicitor
30:33general of India is directly responsible for
30:36marking matters to them.
30:37So truth is our defense.
30:39That is what he said in the video.
30:40And that is why he said that he doesn't
30:42expect justice before this court and he
30:44will not be appearing.
30:45So now, it's very strange and surprising
30:49that while recusing herself now at this
30:52juncture, a contempt has been initiated,
30:54but we will fight it.
30:55I mean, BJP has given us good practice
30:57to fight in the court of law.
31:00You have one more minute.
31:02Do you want to use it or shall I give it
31:04to Sanju Varma?
31:05Oh, please.
31:07I mean, I just want to bring it to
31:10everybody's notice that BJP ran a very big
31:13campaign against us.
31:15For the past three, four years,
31:17they vilified us through and through.
31:19They made allegations which could not
31:20stand in court at all.
31:22The PMLA court, they were completely
31:26anti the ED, the trial court has given
31:30us a discharge, honorable discharge and
31:32said that the entire case was merely
31:35based on hearsay.
31:36So this entire vilification campaign by
31:39the BJP of the Ahmadinejee party leaders
31:41has failed miserably.
31:42And therefore, you see Sanju Varma making
31:44such absurd statements even about judges
31:46right now.
31:48All right.
31:48Sanju Varma, your two minutes time starts
31:50now.
31:51You know, Sanju Varma, we have we had
31:53Mr. Sanjeev Banerjee, Justice Sanjeev Banerjee
31:55on the show as well.
31:56And he also said, you know, that while you
31:58are a sitting judge, you might have political
32:01you might have a political ideology, but to
32:04align it with visits, you know, to make it to
32:07wear it on your sleeve as a judge is
32:11problematic as per a former sitting judge, ma'am.
32:15And that's and what you said earlier was that so
32:18what if she's politically inclined?
32:21You know, Preeti, let me make one thing again very, very
32:24clear, Hindi mein kahawat hai, ulta chor kotwaan ko dante, chori
32:29oopar se seena jori.
32:31The man who's at the epicenter of the Delhi liquor scam is the
32:35founder, co-founder of Aam Admi Party, Arvind Kejriwal,
32:39Manish Sisodia and their retainers, Durgesh, Paathak, Saurabh,
32:42Bhardwaj, what have you.
32:43But instead of Kejriwal being questioned, look at the audacity.
32:49I'm not talking about you, but look at the narrative.
32:51Oh, Justice Varma Kampa Sharma has political leanings.
32:54She's not going to give a fair verdict, which favours Arvind Kejriwal.
32:58The CAG, which is a constitutional body, said, yes, liquor
33:02scam was perpetrated by Kejriwal.
33:05Kejriwal's darbari said, oh, CAG is, you know, biased against
33:09Kejriwal.
33:09The Delhi High Court gave umpteen judgments, the PMLA court
33:14gave umpteen judgments against Kejriwal and his
33:17acolytes.
33:17But the entire Garbari ecosystem said, Delhi High Court
33:20is wrong, PMLA is wrong, CAG is wrong.
33:23Why, brother?
33:24All the institutions are wrong.
33:27But Arvind Kejriwal, Raja Harish Chandra, is the fourth
33:30of Khaar.
33:31And Priyanka Kakar says, Sanju Varma is making absurd
33:34statements.
33:35I just want to tell her, if she's a lawyer, then I'm a rocket
33:39scientist.
33:40She is not a practicing lawyer of repute, nor am I a rocket
33:43scientist.
33:44I will end by saying one thing.
33:46Hats off once again to Swarna Kantha Sharma for saying, I will
33:50not be intimidated.
33:51I have found that Kejriwal has engaged in a vilifying campaign,
33:57deliberately orchestrated to malign me.
33:59And I think judges cutting across political ideologies should stand with
34:04Swarna Kantha Sharma for refusing to be bullied by a man called Kejriwal.
34:09And let me make one thing again very clear to you, Preeti.
34:13Do you remember former CJI Sanjeev Khanna, when he said 336 crores money trail has been
34:19established?
34:20Kejriwal even accused Sanjeev Khanna of being a BJP puppet.
34:23But, okay, Sanju Varma, I interviewed Mr. Sanjeev Khanna.
34:28And Mr. Sanjeev Khanna also said at that point of time, which was in the front page of the
34:33Indian Express, that if you take, if one starts actually hearing the merits of the case, it will
34:38not stand in court.
34:39That happens, Sanjeev Khanna.
34:40So, you can quote one part, there is the other part as well.
34:43But right now, I hear you.
34:46I hear you.
34:47I hear you.
34:47You never hear about this question which is anti-Kejriwal, Preeti.
34:51Come on.
34:51You can do better than that.
34:52You know, ma'am, you can again, you know, it's rather bizarre that you, any, the point with
34:57spokespersons from the BJP and the likes of you, Sanjeev Khanna, is that you will not,
35:02either you are not used to being asked questions, madam, either that's the problem, or you don't
35:07want to answer them.
35:08You cannot turn on the anchor all the time.
35:11It is highly distasteful.
35:13You cannot turn on the anchor all the time.
35:15It is highly distasteful.
35:17Like I said, it's highly distasteful.
35:19Either if you do not have the gumption to hear a question, do not come to debate, because
35:24on this debate, questions will be asked to both sides of the divide, madam.
35:29Thank you for joining us.
35:30I appreciate all three people who have joined us this evening.
35:33We are going to quickly shift focus to our other debate, which pertains to the fuel hike.
35:40Once again, the Ahmadinejee party is feeling the heat, and this time a tad bit after elections.
35:45And that is what most political parties are pointing at, that a fuel hike was imminent.
35:50The Prime Minister has already given out a series of advice, which says, strap your belts on,
36:00that we might need to now move into a bit of smart spending.
36:05Well, at the back of it, now there has been a fuel hike of three rupees of petrol all across
36:12the country.
36:13Here's more.
36:20After Prime Minister Narendra Modi's spend-wise mantra amid the escalating West Asia crisis,
36:27the fuel shock has finally hit India.
36:30Petrol and diesel prices have been increased by three rupees per litre across the country.
36:35The fuel hike has sparked a fierce political face-off.
36:39The Congress has launched a sharp attack on Prime Minister Modi, calling him the inflation man.
36:45The party says that with elections now over, the government has begun what it calls Vasuli from the public.
36:52As the rupee weakens, opposition claims the common man is being forced to bear the burden.
36:59Opposition leaders have also questioned the centre over its handling of the crisis,
37:04asking why no major relief measures have been announced so far.
37:08From 2014 to 2014, compare it to the price of the price before the government comes in 2014.
37:20What's the approach of the public is, I believe.
37:45The BJP has defended the move.
37:48The party claims India has witnessed one of the lowest fuel price increases among major
37:54global economies despite the international crude shock.
38:24But beyond the political war of words, for the Yama Admi, the impact is immediate.
38:29From daily travel to household expenses, the rising fuel prices are once again set to burn
38:35a deeper hole in people's pockets.
38:37Bureau Report, India Today.
38:42Our face-off this evening, joining me Bhavya Narsimha Murthy, Spokesperson Congress, Sanju
38:47Verma continues to be with us from the BJP.
38:49Bhavya, your two-minute start now.
38:51Where we are is collateral.
38:53We have no part to play.
38:55This is all the ramifications coming in from West Asia.
38:58Why the politics over the fuel rise?
39:02You know, where the public is involved, politics is obviously involved.
39:09Now, when the crude oil prices were going down, you know, we're on a soft decline.
39:14The government would have given the benefits to the people of the state.
39:19They did not.
39:20Now that the crude prices are rising, the government is not able to act like a buffer at all.
39:25The inflation is projected to be 6%.
39:28And guess what?
39:29Look at the timing.
39:30Right after the five-state elections, he increased the LPG price by like 1,000 rupees, almost 900 rupees.
39:37The commercial price.
39:39And petrol price, diesel price.
39:41It's only been increasing.
39:46So, let me tell you from 2014 to 2025, what is the increase in the petrol price?
39:54It was 71 rupees when the barrel, each barrel costed hundreds of dollars.
39:59Now, it is 97 rupees.
40:01Of course, for the past many months, it has been in 90s, you know, when the crude oil was like
40:0960 rupees, 70 rupees per barrel.
40:11They could have passed on the benefits to the consumers, the government.
40:15They did not do that.
40:16That is exactly what we are questioning.
40:18Now that it's rising, the prime minister just wants to come and say, you know what, cut down on the
40:24fuel, stop traveling abroad, cut down on your destination weddings, stop buying gold.
40:31Is this what an economist does?
40:33Is this what administration is?
40:36What were they doing?
40:37Did they not predict this?
40:39The war started when?
40:40And what happened after that?
40:41Okay, prime ministers will ask us to cut down on fuel and all of this, but he will go on
40:46the roadshow.
40:48Only after the outcry, he started taking only two vehicles in his motorcars.
40:53That's not how it works, no?
40:55It's not just he's setting example.
40:57He's a prime minister.
40:58This is not just for optics.
40:59He needs to do something about this.
41:01He can't transfer all the burden on the people.
41:04Sanju Verma, if it wasn't as predictable as it is, you know, it wouldn't have been this amusing.
41:10But elections end and as expected, there's a fuel hike.
41:14Two minutes, time starts now.
41:17You know, Preeti, first and foremost, let me make one thing very clear.
41:22Globally, Brent crude price is up 81%.
41:26Saudi contract prices are up 44%.
41:29Saudi Aramco's prices are up 66%.
41:32European gas futures are up 72%.
41:35And spot LNG prices are up 134%.
41:40Lo and behold, globally, crude oil and gas prices have skyrocketed.
41:46But in India, we raised petrol and diesel prices by 3 rupees a litre,
41:52which in percentage terms is just a 3.2% hike.
41:57The war started in late February, 76 days later.
42:02There has been a marginal price hike.
42:04And the Congress-Darbari ecosystem is absolutely rattled.
42:09For perspective, let me tell your viewers.
42:12I'm sure they will be interested in this data.
42:14In the United States, between February and May,
42:18petrol prices are up 44.5%.
42:21In Nepal, 38%.
42:23South Africa, 33%.
42:24Canada, 32%.
42:26New Zealand, 31%.
42:27Thailand, 30%.
42:29China, 22%.
42:31France, 21%.
42:32United Kingdom, 21%.
42:34Australia, 19%.
42:36South Korea, 21%.
42:38So on and so forth.
42:39Every economy globally has been affected by a black swan event.
42:44A black swan event called the West Asia crisis, which has not resolved for various reasons.
42:49So to isolate the Modi government and blame the BJP is actually Congress living in lala land.
42:57And let me say one more thing.
42:59Thank God it is Narendra Modi.
43:01And we've only seen a 3% price hike.
43:04Manmohan Singh in 2012 raised petrol prices in one go.
43:08By 8 rupees a liter.
43:11And when questioned by media, he said,
43:17All right, last one minute each.
43:20Bhavia, please go.
43:21I only have two minutes.
43:22One minute each.
43:22Your time begins now.
43:24Sanju Verma, you know, data can be interpreted in different ways.
43:27But while comparing, you need to compare the timeline as well.
43:31You spoke about American price rise right now when they are in the middle of a war, right?
43:36I'm talking about the past 12 years of your rule.
43:39In 2014, the petrol price was 71 rupees per liter.
43:44When each barrel cost 100 to 110 dollars.
43:49Right now, just before the war, where the petrol price in India was 90 plus,
43:55each barrel costed only 60 to 70 rupees.
43:58And you know what?
43:59Diesel price, when we, when Congress went out of power and BJP took over,
44:04it was 56 rupees 71 paise and today it is 90 rupees 67 paise.
44:10LPG, it was 412 rupees in 2014 May.
44:14And today it is 913 rupees.
44:17What are you saying?
44:17In 12 days, in 12 years, you have doubled the prices.
44:21What didn't happen for the past 70 years?
44:24You doubled the price in 12 years.
44:26And you're speaking about this.
44:28Like data can be interpreted in 20 days.
44:29One minute, Sanju Verma, your time, because now that's all the time that I have for.
44:32Go ahead, ma'am.
44:33You know, Preeti, let me remind and educate the Congress spokesperson.
44:38Dhyan says, you know, madam, January 2014,
44:43Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi's kitchen cabinet was in power.
44:46LPG 14.5 kg cylinder in Mumbai was 1,270 rupees.
44:52In Kolkata, it was 1,292 rupees.
44:55In Delhi, it was 1,234 rupees.
44:58And in Chennai, it was 1,241 rupees.
45:02And let me tell you one more thing, Preeti, that in the last 10 to 11 years of the Modi
45:08government, from 14 crores, today there are more than 34 crore people who have LPG connections.
45:15From zero strategic petroleum reserves, today we have 5.3 LNP of strategic petroleum reserves.
45:22And let me also remind your audience, khata khat model of the Congress has failed in Karnataka.
45:27Value-added tax in Karnataka is how much?
45:3037.6%.
45:31Value-added tax in Congress rule Telangana is 39.2%.
45:38All right, man, that's all the time that we have for, we are terribly out of time.
45:41Thank you, both our guests, for joining us.
45:43With that, it's a quick break on the other side.
45:45My colleague, Gaurav Savunth, takes over.
45:47Stay tuned.
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