00:00But Streeting and Angela Rayner are probably the key rivals, I guess. Shall we start with Angela Rayner?
00:06Yes, I mean, she is a good, a very magnificent thorn in Keir Starmer's side, actually, because obviously they were
00:13a kind of team of rivals while she was deputy leader of the Labour Party and deputy prime minister.
00:19But by all accounts, they haven't always seen eye to eye. They represent quite different wings of the party.
00:25And so when she left government in September, the kind of opportunity for her to be on the back benches,
00:32get a base beneath her, causing some problems, I think has been pretty inevitable.
00:37And she has made some quite tricky statements about Mandelson, about some of his policy positions in the last few
00:44months that have not been helpful.
00:47So it seems pretty clear she's been gearing up for something like this.
00:50Apparently she's been making money in the city, talking to traders there and big banks, and she's been learning about
00:57defence and kind of boning up on that part of her knowledge that she doesn't really have, which I think
01:02is fair enough.
01:05She is also just a flaming red-headed vixen, and I kind of love her.
01:09Much of the public have really liked her until this HMRC tax situation, which is when she had to step
01:15down as deputy prime minister.
01:18Because although the row is still ongoing, she allegedly did not pay tax on a house that she bought.
01:26And that has actually really not gone down well.
01:29If you look at focus groups about her, the tax thing is just really hated by people.
01:36And so they had to be quite careful, I think, about backing Ange, as fun as she is.
01:43You know, she reminds me of someone who, when you have one of those friends where you think, you're really
01:48fun, I love going out for like a drink or dinner with you.
01:52Would I start a business with you and like remortgage my house to do that?
01:57I don't know.
01:58And I don't know if that is...
01:59It's just giving me a really strong stare.
02:01No, I'll do it with you in a second.
02:03Here we are.
02:04Here we are.
02:05My wagon is attached to yours, Helen.
02:07But I wonder whether when push comes to shove, some of that, you know, enjoying her authenticity and thinking that
02:15she's fun.
02:16I wonder once the kind of head-to-head polls start coming out, which they inevitably will, some of her
02:21backers might lose their nerve.
02:22It was surprising.
02:23She did issue a statement on Sunday, I think it was, which was both managing to be kind of, well,
02:29this is not okay.
02:30The situation needs to change, but not...
02:32It kind of pulled its punches quite a lot.
02:34And I thought that was surprising that that definitely said to me that she's not actually sure if she wants
02:39to do this, because if you really want to do it, you'd be coming out fighting.
02:43And actually, as has been pointed out by quite a few people, she did not talk about immigration in that
02:47statement.
02:48She was very complimentary about Andy Burnham and said it was a mistake that he'd not been able to run
02:52in Gorton and Denton.
02:53So we'll park that for now.
02:56But, you know, to have backed a potential rival.
02:59But, you know, the government's immigration record is actually pretty strong.
03:03It's come down under the Labour government.
03:06Really significantly.
03:07Yeah.
03:07Really significantly.
03:08Yeah.
03:08And it's quite interesting to not sort of point to that as a success.
03:13And, you know, there were these stories that she thinks Shibana Mahmood should go as Home Secretary.
03:19Poor Shibana.
03:20She keeps, you know, I must take her name out of my mouth.
03:22But I quite like her and I want to get on to talking about her shortly.
03:26Angela Raina, she might have been supportive of Andy Burnham.
03:28She did not talk about Wes streeting, though, in her little chat EBD statement.
03:33What do you make of Wes, Helen?
03:35Well, I think Wes is that all the Westminster rumours are that Wes is the one who is most ready
03:39to launch his campaign.
03:40I think the question about Wes is incredibly ambitious for the Labour Party and for himself.
03:44That's not a crime.
03:46He is a very good communicator.
03:48He's very good on the telly.
03:49He's got a very quick turn of phrase.
03:50He's not frightened of tackling arguments head on.
03:55So he's quite good if you put him against a reformed person or a green person.
03:57There's lots of kind of boxes to tick on where streeting could look really good.
04:01The question is still the question, which is why and what?
04:04Because he has not set out in any way, shape or form what his mandate or prospect is.
04:10He's not got a reputation as being a big developer of ideas or a thinker in the Labour Party.
04:15His heritage is not, here is my diagnosis of the problem of our state and here is my plan for
04:21doing it.
04:21So I think the fear when it comes to Wes is that, Wes, she said, we're talking about him in
04:25their first name.
04:26When it comes to Mr Streeting or the Secretary of State for Health.
04:28I like to call him Wesley Snipes because people snipe at him pretty badly too.
04:33Oh, I see what you've done there.
04:34He's got his detractors, Helen, I would say.
04:37I will refer to him from now on as the Secretary of State for Health until that is not true.
04:40Anyway, the Secretary of State for Health.
04:42Are you just going to get a better communicator version of Keir Starmer?
04:45I think is the question.
04:46And has he actually, yes, he's been Secretary of State for Health.
04:50The NHS has gone through some really difficult and challenging things.
04:53Some things are going well, weightiness are going down.
04:55Some things are going really badly.
04:57Like the abolition of NHS England has not been a well run or smooth process.
05:01There's all sorts of kind of question marks there.
05:02So is he going to bring the sort of excellent public administration attention to detail, grip, ruthlessness and an actual
05:10plan for what the country needs?
05:12Like big question mark.
05:13I think is he well organized and well liked?
05:15This is his family.
05:16I mean, he's been part of the Labour Party since he was a student politician.
05:19It's very much in the blood.
05:20And it's worth remembering that these people have known each other for decades.
05:25Their adult life has been spent with each other.
05:27So the kind of ties and the grudges and the loyalties go back a million years.
05:33Yeah.
05:33And he carries with him.
05:34This is part of my Wesley Snipes gag.
05:37But he carries with him a lot.
05:39He's commit to the gag.
05:39Keep it.
05:40It's a good gag.
05:41We're going to sweat it.
05:42So good.
05:43But he carries with him a lot of the baggage that the prime minister does.
05:47You know, he's seen as very close to Peter Mandelson.
05:50He's seen as very close to Morgan McSweeney.
05:52He is despised, actually, by some of the Labour MPs.
05:59And there are already briefings that are kind of trying to kneecap him before he's even become leader or prime
06:05minister.
06:05You know, the Mandelson point, I think, is an important one.
06:08Because if you remember, he was the opening cabinet minister who sort of jumped the gun on the Humble Address
06:14and the Met investigation by releasing his text messages between himself and Peter Mandelson preemptively.
06:21Which is a very good political move, to be fair to him.
06:24He's got good judgment on those things.
06:25Well, he certainly felt it at the time.
06:27But I wonder, depending on when the next tranche of the Mandelson files comes out, whether he'll be actually looking
06:32quite exposed compared to the other candidates, because they'll only have his messages to judge.
06:39I'm sure this is for one of our later, you know, when we've got the other tranche, but a Labour
06:43Party insider said to me the other day that 43% of all Labour prime ministers have had to fire
06:48Peter Mandelson.
06:49Like all Labour prime ministers ever.
06:50I thought that was a really, a really excellent step.
Comments