- 4 months ago
ITL debates the long-term future of Houston’s defensive core.
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00:00Good. All right. All right. So this Texans team, we've talked about this before.
00:04It's a stat that is I don't know if it's like fascinating, but it's very interesting to think about the
00:08fact that the Texans starters are at least presumed starters.
00:11There's nine of the 11 that are under contract, not just through this season, but into seasons beyond that.
00:20And I mean, you're locked in with a lot of these guys.
00:22And it brings up the question that I've been kind of pondering on.
00:26And I wanted to bring to you five folks. How long is it reasonable to expect a defense of this
00:32magnitude of top of the league, you know, menacing?
00:36Because that's the thing is this team is clearly being built around the idea that you are going to have
00:41a top of the league defense.
00:44And I just stopped to think about it. How long is it reasonable to think about?
00:47Because this was, I think, the undercurrent of anybody who had some minor or whatever concerns about Aziz Alshair's extension
00:54is OK.
00:56You're locking in a lot on this defense without the idea of how you pivot.
01:01You're saying this is going to be the defense that holds up.
01:04And I just wanted to take the time to think about how long do you think it's reasonable to have
01:09or to expect not just a solid defense, but a great defense to be there?
01:13Man, what a great question. What a great question, because we always talk about windows, right?
01:19And, you know, the reason the window is open is because of this defense.
01:23So I just did a little cursory search.
01:26Who are the teams that immediately come to mind that you think?
01:28Because I've done a little bit of work here to see who are the teams that I think have done
01:32a decent job of holding this thing.
01:34OK, off the top of my head, I'm going to say you have a five-year window.
01:39And the reason I say that, and again, this is off the top of my head, you have the numbers
01:44in front of you, which is why you're here.
01:46I thought it was for my effervescent personality and my beautiful face.
01:49That's second and third.
01:50OK.
01:52Off the top of my head, the Legion of Boom lasted about five years, didn't it?
01:56There was about a window where you're like, oh boy, this defense is incredible.
02:00Yeah, probably so.
02:02And then I started thinking, OK, let's go talk about some of the, and I just called them up, so
02:06let's talk about some of the greatest defenses of all time.
02:09Obviously, everybody goes to the 85 Bears.
02:11That was probably a little less than five years.
02:13I was about 4, 3, 4 at that level.
02:16Of the most elite.
02:16They were really good in 84, 85, 86, I think 87, if I'm remembering right.
02:22They had, you know, maybe a little bit of a slip.
02:25So then I go to the 2,000 Ravens.
02:27Wasn't that about four or five years, too?
02:29I mean, there is something to be said about the 2,000 Ravens being top 10 in points allowed.
02:35Now, how strong, like if we're going top third in the league, does that feel like that fits what you're
02:39talking about?
02:39They were top 10 in points allowed for a good 10, 11 years.
02:44So, is that unfair to say you got, starting last year, the clock is on five years?
02:50Probably.
02:50That feels about right.
02:51But I think that's actually, that feels good.
02:54That feels very good.
02:55Yeah, that feels very good.
02:56You get it right, you win a couple Super Bowls.
02:58Some of the other teams that we're talking about, I had the Ravens down here.
03:01I had the Tampa Bay Buccaneers somewhere around like the late 90s into the early aughts.
03:06So, if you want to go like 96, 2005, somewhere in that range, Legion of Boom, Seattle Seahawks obviously comes
03:13up as one of the great ones.
03:14They did it for probably about a good five to seven years in the early, what do we call them,
03:20the 2010s?
03:21The 10s?
03:23I hate not having a quick, easy...
03:24No, I've heard 2010s.
03:25Yeah, I've heard that.
03:26I don't love it.
03:27It is what it is.
03:28You got to do what you do here.
03:29And then the Pittsburgh Steelers in a similar time period as well did something similar.
03:33What is the through line?
03:34What is the connective tissue about the way that those things are built that tell you, hey, this is a
03:39team that has a longevity?
03:40I think secondary always matters, and pass rush.
03:44I mean, the two most important things in defense, but the really connective tissue is being able to keep the
03:49players there.
03:51And that's where it gets interesting with the Texans, because we always talk about Kamari Lassiter.
03:56Are you going to be able to do that, especially when you're going to perhaps pay a quarterback?
04:00And we are saying perhaps.
04:03How long is Daniil Hunter at this level?
04:08So, yeah, I think being able to keep those players, the integral players, for that window is the most important
04:17thing.
04:17I think that you have to also start, and this probably sounds like it's an evident thing once you say
04:21it,
04:22you have to start with being built on Hall of Famers.
04:24Yeah.
04:24How many Hall of Famers do you see on this defense right now?
04:28One, two...
04:29I'm talking about track.
04:31Yeah, I'm not saying...
04:32No, of course.
04:32Yeah, yeah, yeah.
04:32If we're going, Will Anderson Jr. right now, put him in the Hall.
04:35Yeah, we might be doing a little much.
04:36Well, I'll name names.
04:38I'll say Will Anderson.
04:39I think you're right there.
04:40Daniil Hunter.
04:41I agree.
04:42Derek Stingley.
04:45Track.
04:45I think he's on the track.
04:47Yes.
04:47I'd be...
04:48The injuries scare me.
04:49Not to say that I think he's been off injured.
04:51So, if he keeps...
04:51Again, injuries, of course.
04:52So, if he keeps playing like he played last season...
04:54Track.
04:55You know, let me do it this way.
04:56Yeah.
04:57Characteristics.
04:57No, and I hear you, but I think that it's worth bringing up the injuries,
05:00because it's like, yeah, injuries can derail anybody,
05:01but there's some dudes that are more trending towards or more prone towards injuries,
05:05and it feels like he'd be more on that side.
05:07Neither here nor there.
05:08I think I agree with you on, obviously, the capabilities for him as a player.
05:11Those might be the only three that you can see some characteristics.
05:15And that's not a bad thing, because defense...
05:17No, three is a lot on one defense.
05:18Yeah.
05:19The reason why I bring that up is, I think that they have to be the foundation.
05:23They can't just be parts of it.
05:24And this is where I come to Daniil Hunter.
05:26I love him.
05:27This is awesome that he's been here.
05:28You would not be here without him.
05:30How much longer do you actually anticipate him playing?
05:32Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
05:33You know, being able to keep those players.
05:35Daniil Hunter might be two or three years.
05:37Maybe two.
05:38Right.
05:38You know?
05:39And, again, we're saying...
05:40It sounds like we might be saying this as if this is a negative thing.
05:43Two or three more years on top of already having probably two seasons of,
05:46oh, boy, these dudes are menaces.
05:48But it's not a bad situation to be dealing with by any means.
05:51That's actually longer than I would have expected.
05:53Especially when you've got a Will Anderson.
05:55Yeah.
05:55Because I thought once he got paid, then they're probably going to say bye-bye to Daniil.
05:59But that ain't the case right now.
06:01No, if you have three Hall of Famers on a defense...
06:05I mean, look at some of the...
06:06Would the Steelers have seven?
06:08That's the outline.
06:10I'm talking about the old steel curtain.
06:11Yeah, back when they were playing plumbers and stuff.
06:14It's a joke.
06:15It's a joke, everybody.
06:16Don't whoop me.
06:16But even the Legion of Boom, how many Hall of Famers do they have?
06:20Earl Thomas gets...
06:22Yeah, Earl Thomas.
06:23Camp Chancellor's the easy one.
06:24I don't know why I start there.
06:25Camp Chancellor.
06:25Richard Sherman's going to go in.
06:28Yeah, and then you start getting to...
06:30I don't know.
06:31So three.
06:31Yeah, probably.
06:32Yeah.
06:33That I immediately think of unless I'm just forgetting.
06:35But then this is where it's also important to have those other pieces.
06:38And the Texans clearly have those in spades, right?
06:40The guys who fall in like a Byron Maxwell.
06:42The guys who fall in like a Brandon Browner.
06:47You remember Brandon Browner?
06:48And you have a number of those, right?
06:50This is where your Aziz is.
06:51This is where your Kalen Bullocks fall in.
06:55This is where your Sheldon Rankins fall in.
06:57And you have all of those as well.
06:58Like, you have all of the telltales.
07:00This is the interesting part.
07:01Because I do think that this offseason represents the thing that I think will offer you an opportunity
07:05to be one of these teams that has the most longevity of keeping a defense of this magnitude together.
07:11Man.
07:12The pivot points matter.
07:13Yeah, the pivot points matter.
07:14And I was just...
07:15While you were talking, I was looking at that Steve.
07:17That's six Hall of Famers on the defense.
07:20That's six.
07:22Joe Green.
07:23Man, they had it.
07:24Nine.
07:24Eleven.
07:26All together.
07:26Joe Green, Jack Hamm, Jack Lambert, Mel Blunt, Donnie Schell.
07:32Oh, I forgot Bobby Wagner.
07:33My bad, y'all.
07:34Oh, Bobby Wagner.
07:34Of course.
07:35Oh, I feel so bad.
07:37But yeah, to your point, you know, you have to be able to keep the guys.
07:42You have to have the Hall of Fame characteristics.
07:44And then the Hall of Very Good Players.
07:45You know, the guys.
07:46I'll shy ears.
07:48And to this point, Kamari Lasseter.
07:50To this point, Jalen Petrie.
07:51You know?
07:52And then the pivot point.
07:53And this is where I think you get into the...
07:55When you pay guys, how does that affect the ability to pivot?
07:58Right now, they've already put a couple of pivot point guys in.
08:01Reed Blankenship is a pivot point guy.
08:02Yeah.
08:03Right?
08:03Where he was not a part of the early portions of this.
08:06But if this goes the way that it seems like, he could be another one of those guys that you
08:09talk about Hall of Very Good.
08:10Or that is part of the second half of, quote unquote, of what you're doing here.
08:15I think the K-Mac almost did it, right?
08:17I almost did the thing where I called him Keelan instead of K.
08:19I think that K-Mac is a pivot point guy.
08:22We'll see.
08:23You know, obviously very, very...
08:25He hadn't played it down yet.
08:25So, certainly if he just does the one thing very, very well that we know he can do, absolutely.
08:32Absolutely he can be that guy.
08:33And so, for me, the question I have is, I think five years might be the minimum for this.
08:37I think that they've done the thing where this five years might...
08:39Because, again, they're going to have...
08:41Who's replacing Daniil Hunter?
08:43That's still a good question.
08:44Yeah.
08:44That's a good question.
08:46And then the additional pivot points that they're going to have to make is, it does not feel...
08:51Well, one, I think Kalen Bullock is the one who feels the least likely that he returns once his contract
08:57is up, right?
08:57Mm-hmm.
08:58I think that Kalen Bullock is going to be a big pivot point that they're going to have to answer
09:01once they get there.
09:02Not in now's circumstance, but I think that answering that question is going to be a part of determining whether
09:06this is a five or eight year kind of, you know, maintenance at the level.
09:11You know what I mean?
09:12I mean, eight, they're going to have to reload.
09:14Five, I think, is about the max right now.
09:17Do you think they can last that long if they don't win a Super Bowl or get to a Super
09:21Bowl?
09:21Well, realistically, I think five is just the max.
09:26Because let's talk about Alshair.
09:28I mean, that position alone, and he's a veteran.
09:31Who's replacing...
09:31You mentioned who's replacing Daniil...
09:33Or I mentioned who's replacing Daniil Hunter.
09:34Who's replacing Alshair?
09:35Yeah, you've got...
09:36And he's so important to what you do here.
09:38That's going to be a huge pivot point if they can find a way to squeeze out the extra years
09:41on the backside of this.
09:42As I mentioned, some of these defenses that we're talking about, five years is like the pinnacle peak prime, but
09:46they're able to still be very good for maybe another three.
09:50And that's the conversation that I'm having.
09:51But you're going to...
09:52Yeah, that's the question that you would have to ask.
09:54And that would have to start assuming that you're getting the next two to three years that you have on
09:58the Aziz Alshair extension that you're hoping.
10:01You know what I mean?
10:02But ultimately, in thinking about this, I was wondering if on the backside of this, I was going to come
10:07out feeling like,
10:08Oh, man, they're putting their money in a place where it's a little scary.
10:11I think they're actually really...
10:12No, they're...
10:12They're really well situated to be the next iteration of these teams that we've talked about.
10:16I mean, you mentioned it.
10:17Five years is not like, oh, no.
10:18Five years is like, hell, yeah.
10:21Five years is hell, yeah.
10:22And then we're talking about, can we stretch this to a place where we're going,
10:25that was 10 years of a defense that you have to contend with.
10:29Somebody said they might reload on edge in the 27 draft.
10:32That's the plan.
10:33But again, you have to be able to hit that.
10:35But honestly, defensively, I believe in their capability of doing that.
10:38Sure, sure.
10:39I really and truly do.
10:40And so that made me feel really good.
10:43When we talk about historic defense, we've talked about this in the context of in the season.
10:47The team building of the off the season, out of the season matters.
10:50And it seems like they're hitting that pretty well to this point.
10:52So a thought that I had, and it feels like the Texans have actually done a pretty good job of
10:56that,
10:57which then highlights again, what are you doing with the counterpart?
10:59Does the counterpart hit?
11:01Always comes back to that.
11:03100%.
11:03And so this year will be very interesting seeing if the counterpart hits.
11:07Because, Figgy, I think you asked a good question that I don't want to move past.
11:10How long does it last if they don't win a Super Bowl?
11:12And I would love to not figure that out.
11:14If you get that win on one side of this, I think that helps you.
11:17Keep that prestige up.
11:18It helps you continue to build this.
11:20Yeah, I thought about that because you usually see, like, let's say in the NFL,
11:23you see a good offense that's not getting over the hump.
11:26Then they just break it up.
11:27There's changes at the top, too.
11:29Yeah.
11:29Yeah.
11:29They just break it up.
11:31Like, hey, you know, we tried.
11:32You know, a hell of a job, but didn't get us there.
11:34All the teams that we're talking about here.
11:36They did that.
11:37The early Aux Ravens won a championship.
11:39The Tampa Bay Bucs won a championship.
11:41Seattle Seahawks, the Legion of Boom, won championship.
11:45Yeah, the Steelers in their championship.
11:48Like, these are all things that all feel like they're part of that.
11:50Obviously, it's not only on the defense, but it feels like if you're going to do that,
11:53you kind of need that to come with it.
11:55Yeah.
11:55I don't know if that's a guarantee or anything, but it's definitely something interesting to watch.
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