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00:00of brands, people in the business of branded storytelling, and platforms that are also
00:06making quite a bit of innovative content and lucrative content in this space. So we have
00:13an incredible group of people here to talk about brand storytelling. I don't have to tell the
00:19people in this room that this is a very, very hot area in the content business. So we are so
00:25grateful. I'm just going to go very quickly and do some introductions and then we are just going
00:29to dive into the topics. And because it's been a long day, I'm going to use my phone. I'm totally
00:34going to cop to it here. But right next to me here is Margaret Walker, Executive Vice President
00:40of Entertainment Marketing for NBC Universal. It's a little studio down the road here. Next to
00:45Margaret is Nicole Parlapiano, Chief Marketing Officer for Tubi, a fast-growing Avod platform that
00:53is part of the Fox universe. That's a studio that's down in the other direction. Next to
00:58Nicole here is Nick Paul, who is co-founder and president of Spotter, which is one of the
01:06companies that's in the intersection of all this. We'll hear more about Spotter from Nick.
01:11Next to Nick is Claudine Cheever, who is Chief Marketing Officer of Pinterest. Claudine is a
01:16veteran of our events and we really appreciate your participation. And we love Pinterest. In my
01:23other life as a Sunday school teacher, Pinterest is my best friend. Okay. Next to Claudine, excuse me,
01:32is Jasmine Taylor, Vice President of Brand Marketing for Instacart, which brings us all the things that
01:38we need when we really need them instantly. And last but definitely not least is Mariana Hewitt,
01:45co-founder of Beauty Brands Summer Fridays. And we're going to learn more about what Summer Fridays is
01:51focused on. So thank you all. Again, we have a great cross-section of folks here that are active
01:56in this area. And I just want to get right into it because we're in a room full of marketers.
02:01Everybody knows that there's so much heat. Brands are chasing content. Content platforms are chasing
02:06brands to help make the world go round in content and entertainment. And so I want to just start
02:14diving right in what, and this is for anybody who wants to grab it, what, let's talk about the pros
02:21and cons and from, from whatever perspective you come to, whether you're a brand or a platform or
02:27somebody in the, in the middle of this, what are the pros and cons of working when brands sit down
02:34with a content partner and very proactively say, we're going to develop some content together that
02:39works, you know, works for both sides, but is that, you know, that different spark for content
02:45that where it starts with a brand or a brand is involved from the beginning versus a more traditional
02:51approach, writer comes in, pitches an idea, you know, goes from there. So jump ball, pros and cons,
02:59things that you have encountered in your work when it comes to consciously sitting down to work with
03:05the brand on creating content. Well, I can get started. I mean, thank you. I will. Um, so Pinterest
03:11it actually, for us, it's been really great to start very early because having that, that co-creative
03:16conversation ensures that the story cannot be told without our brand. And that's kind of the bar we
03:22set. If we could switch any other brand in and the story we're telling it, it's, it's a failure. And
03:27so,
03:27and also the brand has to move the story forward. It has to play an active role. So in the
03:32show that
03:32we just launched, uh, bring, bring my Pinterest to life, it literally would not work without the
03:37Pinterest boards. And we take three pinners boards they have for projects and pin them up with creators
03:42and we bring it to life. So it's literally a reenactment of how our product works. And it,
03:46it makes a great makeover show and we all love makeover shows and we all love to see people move
03:50their lives forward. So, um, you know, fortunately we have a really fun pro really fun product as you
03:55mentioned, and everyone loves to use it. So for us, it's really setting that bar of like this,
04:00this is not a brand insertion. It actually is a story where our brand plays an active role
04:04and moves the story forward for, for the, for the hero. Interesting. And I can speak to a con.
04:10So starting summer Fridays before I was a creator. And so sitting on both the creator side and the
04:15brand side, it's put me in a really unique position now. And when I was working with brands,
04:20I would get these briefs and it would be very, very detailed. And at the end, it really felt like
04:24a
04:24commercial and it didn't feel like my point of view and how I would speak to a product. So if
04:29you're
04:29working with a creator, you really want to allow them to speak to their audience best. So it really
04:33should be a collaborative process. The more the brand gets involved and tells the person what to
04:37say, it's not going to come off as authentic. And you may as well just do a commercial with an
04:41actor
04:41if that's what you want and those talking points, but you really want to get in early with them and
04:46allow them to speak to their audience and the way they speak to them and involve their inside jokes,
04:50because that's when it's going to become authentic to their audience and be successful.
04:53Can I ask you, Marianna, are there times when you just have to say, no, this isn't going to work
04:59and just go your separate ways? Yeah. And I think a lot of times that's on the creator to really
05:04speak up and not be afraid to say, this isn't really going to resonate. And I don't want you
05:08guys to waste your money and your budget on this. And I think that's on the manager who is speaking
05:12to the brand directly, because a lot of times it's a telephone game of the manager and the agent
05:17doesn't want to upset the brand. And so at the end of the day, no one's really happy. And so
05:21I think
05:21having those honest conversations and then being involved in that pitch process at the beginning
05:26of coming up with the concept together really ensures both parties are happy.
05:29This is vital information, folks. I just want to say, this is vital. Anybody else?
05:34Margaret and then Nick. Yeah, you brought up something that, and I think you're both hitting
05:39on it. It's that there needs to be a level of authenticity when it comes to partnership. And I
05:45know at NBCUniversal, we sit in a really unique place, right? We have premium IP.
05:51We sit with culture and also commerce, right? We're at this intersection of kind of three
05:56things. And so for us, it's not just about the placement, right? But about how do I participate
06:00in culture? And what that looks like for me is making sure, one, campaigns are certainly breakthrough
06:06because, of course, we're all looking for attention, right? And trying to find attention
06:10of the audiences we're trying to serve, right? And secondly, it's to be a culture catalyst,
06:15right? We've got to spark something. And that can only happen if the audience is a fit. So like
06:21that work should have happened before they reached out to you, right? Is it an audience fit?
06:25And is it authentic, right? Is it speaking authentically to Pinterest or NBCUniversal or the
06:31shows that we're looking at? And only through those two things can we really find a partnership
06:37that's about more than integration, right? It really is about driving culture forward or telling
06:45a story in a deeper or more dynamic way that speaks to both brands. Because otherwise, you know,
06:51consumers are smart, they're savvy. And by the way, we're in entertainment, right? And so it's going to
06:55feel really promotional and not like it's conversational or is providing a two-way benefit.
07:01Yeah, I think what we're seeing really work is collaboration is huge, but then data, right?
07:07Because data is something that you can sit behind and actually it helps kind of solidify why you want
07:13to make a certain decision and why you want to work with certain types of creators. So Spotter,
07:17we sit at the intersection of creators and brands. And so even educating the brand that, hey,
07:22this is not a short form influencer. This is a 22 plus minute episode. That looks a lot different
07:28from a collaboration perspective, storytelling, authenticity, that again, it's about attention,
07:34right? So I want my average view duration to be high. And the creator knows that they've built the
07:39trust and loyalty with their audience. So I think from a brand perspective, it's collaboration,
07:43trust, and then the data that backs it up. And again, the same question I asked Mariana,
07:48there must be some discipline that you have to say, like, you can tell, I'm guessing there's a gut sense
07:54that this isn't going to work. And on the other end, people will be disappointed, right? So you
07:58really want to get ahead of that. Jasmine, I see.
08:01Yeah. Yeah. And how we get to that with data is like for Instacart, we look for creators who are
08:08already authentically using our product, right?
08:10That's what I was going to say. That's what's authentic.
08:13Right. A hundred percent.
08:13They have a relationship with the brand and you're rewarding it.
08:16Exactly. So if I reach out to a creator, I think the creator's great. They have, you know,
08:20great content, but when we have our first conversation, they've never used Instacart
08:24before. Well, it was really, really nice to meet you, right? Because we want, we want people who
08:31love, creators who love the brand, who love the product and are able to share with their followers
08:36authentically how they're unlocking great things from their life and living by using Instacart,
08:42right? Yeah. I mean, that is straight talk. And Nicole, you're in an interesting situation because
08:47Tubi is a really, I've become a magnet for creators and DIY filmmakers that are producing
08:53things, getting millions of views.
08:55Yeah. I think just to build on that, the internet rewards specificity. And I think sometimes you
09:03get into the trap as marketers and when we're talking to brands and we have a project with
09:07a creator, it might not be the creator that they know. And so there's so much education or
09:12they're looking at follower count. They're not considering engagement. They're not considering
09:15that this person might not be as big as Mr. Beast or as big as Alex Earl, but they have
09:21a community that rides hard for them and they are endemic to your brand. So I think there's
09:27a lot of education. We, same thing, like we, when we're working on the marketing side with
09:31creators, it's, we're working with smaller creators that really love Tubi and have an authentic
09:36tie to Tubi. And like their followers root for them when a brand notices them. They are like,
09:41get that bag, girl, like do it. Like, so you don't, I think the universe is so big. So I
09:46think
09:47it's data, but it's also knowing what metrics are fake, what can be gamed in the creator space
09:52and figuring out, like, if you've already got people that are talking about you, that's
09:57the best thing. And like any day somebody can blow up on any one of these platforms. So I think
10:02getting in early and giving notice to some creators that might not have what we would consider
10:07scale, because I don't think it's really about attention. It's about meaning. Like in the world
10:13of AI, we're not going to know what's going on. It's like, what does your brand mean? And
10:17what does it mean to these creators? And what does it mean to their followers? So I think
10:20we have to kind of switch mindset from like scale and mass reach to like really thinking
10:26about like meaningful and like the appetite for risk, both on the creators you work with
10:31or the things you're going to do as a marketer, or if you're going to, you know, make a movie,
10:35the entertainment and marketing rewards risk. And so I think trying to figure out as a brand,
10:42what's your appetite? And is that the same that the creator you're working with? Because
10:46it's okay, not all brands have the same temperature, but certainly in entertainment,
10:51we're here at Variety, you know, entertainment rewards risky stories and risky storytelling and
10:56things that haven't been proven or seen before. So I think that it's that intersection of all those
11:02things and having a real good understanding of it. Your comment just made me realize that AI is going
11:07to be a real test for brand image. Like, you know, if the AI can swipe, you know, can scan
11:15you and get
11:16your brand in an info panel, then somebody's done a good job of marketing. If not, then maybe there's
11:23some work to be done. I didn't even think about that. Let me ask maybe for like, for Nick and
11:28Margaret, folks in the business of kind of arranging these, what are, if you're working
11:32with a brand versus a creator or a, or a Hollywood writer that is going to go through a more
11:38traditional
11:38route, what, or working on content that has come that way, what are some of the, in terms of just
11:44pure deal making, are there things that you have to watch out for when you're working with a brand
11:49versus, you know, an individual creator or a, or a, you know, a studio or something like that?
11:54Are there things that, that you have learned in the, as this, as this sector has evolved so much
12:00that are there like pitfalls that you have to watch out for in terms of sensitivities or deal
12:04making or rights issues down the road? Well, I do think to your point for us, it depends like how
12:11360 is the deal in the partnership to your point, right? I mean, we do think that there's like short
12:17form, obviously brand integrations and things like that. There's long form that we do with brands,
12:23but usage rights is a, is a big thing. Um, because a lot of what we're doing now is going,
12:29hey, why don't we have the creator actually make your 15s, your 30s, your 60s, right? Because again,
12:36this authenticity, this story time, but it will feel very native in the environment that you're in
12:40with these trusted audiences that you've built loyalty and you're always uploading. So it's like
12:46an always on kind of communication and cadence. So it does depend on the elements that are in there
12:52because for us on the creator side, we need to make sure they're protected and that, and that
12:58it's really funny. Uh, actually there's other things to think about too, even like color schemes
13:04that are in something and, you know, competitors and things like that. There's actually a lot to
13:10think about, but from deal making, it's really about making sure you have usage rights, clearance and
13:14things like that. But then that everyone's on the same page with the concept. Cause the concept is
13:19something that obviously brands are very sensitive who we work with large creators are also very
13:25sensitive. So it's just making sure all those things are, are kind of carved out and thought
13:29about. Margaret, from your perspective. I mean, I think we're, sorry, I'm just having a little
13:33coughing fit, but I think we're doing that work in advance, right? We're not necessarily
13:39trying to find people who are in the right fit, right? So for us, if we're bringing in a creator
13:46or even an influencer, we're trying to make sure that it's authentic to what we're doing.
13:51And I would say, even for us, like from a content creator perspective, right? Like we think our
13:57content's pretty special, right? And so what we're trying to do is look at, okay, influencers or
14:04creators, right? But influencers really with a capital I. So for us, it's how am I using my talent
14:09as an influencer because that's who people have the greatest relationship with, right? And the
14:15connection with. And so for us, what it looks like sometimes is following our talent with folks who
14:20are perennially on the internet or consistently on the internet and ensuring that we're capturing
14:26content that gives them a deeper look, either behind the scenes for the show or gives them a unique
14:33perspective. So again, like for us, it's like, I almost caution that it wouldn't get to a breakdown
14:40at the deal point because we're finding people upfront and qualifying them where there's mutually
14:45beneficial or we know, Hey, I really need you to make this something specific. And so we're certainly
14:50willing to pay them for their original work. I would imagine that this has brought a whole new element
14:55to the job on the advertising side, a real creative element, not that it wasn't creative before.
15:00Yeah. I mean, yes. And you know, the internet's been around for so long and I think everything
15:05feels like incrementalism. It's not a huge shift, right? To continue to dynamically involve how people
15:14show up and the time that's spent on the internet. So it, it, it doesn't feel like as big as
15:21a shift as
15:21I think maybe is reflected. And I think also with the internet, you say it's been around a while,
15:26it's, it's sticking. And, uh, it has taught us different, different, different, um, different
15:32time lengths for shows. We were so attuned to 22, you know, a comedy is 22 minutes, a drama is
15:3748
15:38minutes, and that's all gone out the window in the last 15 years. Uh, Mariana, let me ask you as
15:43a
15:43newer brand on the scene, can you give us just a little more specifics in terms of how you used,
15:48how you have used tapped storytelling and people that are adept at, at getting attention in the
15:54attention economy, how you've used that to build summer Fridays? Yeah. When it comes to the brand
15:59side, we think of a few different things. So content, culture, and community, um, and culture
16:05is really tapping into these cultural moments. So we set our budget for the year. We have our
16:09marketing budget aside, but something we really needed to do was set aside another budget for
16:14one-off things that are happening that we could turn around in 48, 72 hours. And our teams are working
16:20on things right now in like 20, 28. So to ask them to do something 24 to 48 hours is
16:25really,
16:25really fast. So what we did was we created a Slack channel and it's all like trending moments. So as
16:30soon as something's happening and we see a cultural moment where summer Fridays could be tied into it,
16:35it doesn't need to be a large campaign. It doesn't need to be a commercial, but what could we do
16:39where the person could sell film and we could turn this around and get this posted on TikTok or
16:45Instagram in a really fast turnaround. So then it's the communities online of that person and
16:50our brand getting excited. Everyone's resharing and posting that to their stories. There's
16:54conversation around these pieces of content. And so that's a mind shift that we had to change
16:59and also being okay that this isn't our true brand storytelling, but we can allow this creator or
17:04this person or celebrity or this moment elevated in their own way. And so someone we did this with,
17:09um, Maura from traders, she got a Birkin and it was like such a big deal. And within
17:1424 hours of that, she did a, what's in my bag, posted it. Everyone was already looking to see
17:19her content from the show. The show had just ended. The first product she pulled out was a
17:23summer Friday's lip butter bomb. So was it a branded moment? Was it every single product in
17:27her bag is summer Fridays? No, because we wanted it to be authentic to her and her audience. We knew
17:32that all the comment, all the comments and engagement would be about this bag and the show. And so that's
17:37been a challenge to us to have to do, um, and get, let go a little bit as a brand
17:41of being, having to be so true
17:42to our brand and these talking points and kind of just let her do her thing and let her post
17:46without
17:46approval, which is kind of tough to do as a brand, but you have to just trust the creator you're
17:50working. I'll pretend I didn't hear that. I'm just kidding. Um, but truly I think, but, but I think
17:57it's really important to underscore even what you're talking about, right? It's like, here's an example
18:01of an extension from the traders, right? On Peacock that, um, gets truly the great show by
18:09the way. I mean, it's a fantastic show. And again, like the show exploded this year, just because of
18:14the cultural conversation and because of the specificity on the internet and who they're
18:18speaking to. I mean, we've got 12 fandoms, right? Or whatever it is for all these traders. And so,
18:23but what you're speaking to is this moment in culture and how do I do something that's not
18:28promotional and feels really authentic to a woman's purse? Everybody's got gloss, right? So
18:34again, I like jokingly, but it's really smart. But as you said, if everything had been a summer
18:41Friday product, they would have smelled a commercial a mile away. Exactly. And if it was our typical brand
18:47guidelines of waiting a week and that for approval and sending it back and forth, we would have lost
18:51out on that cultural conversation. It would have been old news by the following week. So it's us on us
18:56as
18:56a brand to really turn things around very quickly. Jasmine, same question for you. How do you more
19:02specifically, like, do you look for moments in culture where Instacart can organically plug in?
19:08Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We are always listening to see where are the groceries going.
19:15But we also like look a little bit far further out too, right? So for instance, we know our core
19:23demo
19:24is this head of household. And she loves reality TV. She absolutely loves reality TV. But we also know
19:32that there is an emerging Gen Z woman who also loves reality TV, but is also getting to the point
19:38of, you
19:38know, really thinking about her groceries and planning. And so we started thinking about, well, how can we show
19:44up authentically? And it was, again, with a partnership with NBCU, specifically with Love
19:49Island, where we said, hey, about a year before when Scandaval happened, we offered Ariana Maddox some
19:58groceries, some comfort groceries in the backdrop of what happened. And sort of from there, saw when
20:06she became the host of the show, like an opportunity to lean into the show's content and make a true
20:13integration. And so through that, we introduced Shopper Carl, who was for the purposes of the
20:20integration, a bombshell for Love Island. And it really helped introduce grocery delivery to a whole
20:28new audience as they emerge and become heads of their own households. So we thought about both the
20:34television, of course, the traditional media, but where we actually launched it was social first,
20:39because we know that's where we would meet that audience where they were, and then draw them in
20:44as they watched episode after episode of the show. So that's how we're thinking about showing up.
20:51I really believe that we're getting to rapidly getting to the point where the social first will
20:56be when we say that people will be like, well, duh, I think that we've moved on that.
21:00Uh, excuse me, I wanted to ask you, excuse me, Claudine, regarding Pinterest, you have such a, you have such
21:09a
21:09focus group, right? You know, you know, for a certain type of demo, the crafty demo, the kind of, the
21:16tactile
21:16wants to do it themselves and make it, make it perfect and make it great. Um, what kind of, do
21:22you lean, I mean, I've, I
21:24gotta believe, you lean into that community to look for trends and ways that you can plug in. Can you
21:28talk a little bit
21:29about how you tap that incredible, you, you're up to millions? Well, actually, of our 619 million active
21:35users, more than half are Gen Z. So that kind of, our, our, our, maybe our first wave of users
21:40were
21:40kind of more of the crafty, but now our younger users are really using it for what I call small
21:45C
21:45creativity. Like this year for Coachella, our search for Coachella outfits were up 456%. And if you want
21:52to feel old, a search for retro Coachella, which is 2016, we're up even higher. Um, and, and we were,
21:58we were there, we showed up at Coachella and we have a phone free experience because we really
22:02believe that the best thing you can do online is to find a reason to get offline, which is
22:07the brand campaign we just launched that takes a little poke at, you know, at certain platforms,
22:11but we really believe that. And Gen Z, our Gen Z users really also believe that. Um, but we
22:16really saw Coachella was like, there was a different kind of vibe this year. And so we actually
22:20take all of that data, um, because people are developing their personal taste on Pinterest,
22:25you know, personal taste is a human journey and getting back to the AI conversation, you
22:30know, AI will flatten out all that taste, but that special weirdness, wonderfulness of human
22:35taste is what really comes through in our algorithms. In fact, we do predictions and we do trends every
22:41year and it actually, we actually are seeing into the future cells that these young people want
22:46to become. And it's really, really fun data. And we have a, we have a lot of fun with it,
22:51um, every year and do great creator partnerships out of it. Um, including Emma Chamberlain took our
22:56fisherman aesthetic, which is like chunky sweaters and sardine tattoos. And she created a coffee flavor,
23:02a caramel coffee. And so we co-branded and created a product with her. And that was very much like
23:07us
23:07coming together and letting her be her, you know, and it's really for creators about going deep with
23:13them and letting them get a little bit weird as opposed to mass scale. Um, and so I think we're
23:19all seeing a lot of the same things. Absolutely. Let me ask you, Nicole, because again, you have so
23:24many people now plugging into 2B coming to you as a really, really interesting platform. People are
23:29building careers, filmmakers are getting, how, how have you, how has that just energized the entire
23:362B ecosystem? I mean, 2B is such a wonderful, wild place, like similar to Pinterest. Um, you know,
23:43we're not a network, like we have 330,000 movies and TV episodes, including, you know, whether it's made by
23:52creator or independent, a filmmaker in Detroit. Um, so I think those, that data and those inputs that you're
23:59seeing come through similarly, like the nostalgia piece of like more than half of ours, you know, are Gen Z
24:06and
24:06they're watching older shows. And I think there's just a lot of things that we think about what people are
24:11watching and how they're feeling that when you actually see the data of what people are watching,
24:15it's pretty interesting. It's, it's weird. It's like music. We're very, um, we want to be very
24:20forward about our music tastes, but we all have these like guilty things we watch. Um, but I think
24:25it's so energizing at 2B. We had our first creator, um, led IP film, meaning this was a, a, a
24:34creator
24:34named Keelon Campbell who plays, um, a main character called Terry Joe, but he plays many characters.
24:39And he came up on Tik TOK live and he would just dress as the character and do lives with
24:46different
24:46people on Tik TOK and had this like cult following. And because he was playing characters on Tik TOK
24:52live, we're like, this could be a universe. We think this could be the Gen Z Tyler Perry.
24:58So we partnered with him through our studios program. Um, it launched in February, it hit number
25:04eight on the luminate charts and this is not, this is not real. Yeah. Um, and that, that is
25:12incredible when, and you couldn't validate this for me, but like beast games is elevating what beast
25:17games was. This is taking a short form creator who was playing a character who, um, and taking it
25:23into a cinematic lens and the fans showed up for it. Red bull was this, like was integrated into the
25:31movie. And on the letter box reviews, you even saw positive reviews of the, of the red bull
25:36integration. So it didn't feel ick. It didn't feel cringe. It didn't feel forced. And you very rarely
25:42see that like the brands are getting love on letter box. So I think that's just something,
25:46I think the way that we, the way the creator space is involving, evolving, and I think how different,
25:52different creators are on platforms. I, we really like to look for ones that are multi hyphenate
25:58creators that really, um, not necessarily plugging products or in the moment, but that they're
26:04acting, they're comedic. Um, and they deserve a shot in Hollywood too. And like, I love being able
26:12to be the place that gives them that shot and puts them on the luminate charts, you know, tell us
26:16the
26:16name of that title. It's, um, missionary in Miami. Okay. All right. I'm going to go check it out.
26:22Terry Joe is a Southern Christian woman who has to go down to Miami, um, and gets, um, involved with
26:29some nefarious characters and their red bull is a edgy brand. And you know, there's some risks in
26:36this script, but it paid off. It paid off for the fans and it paid off for the community. And
26:40it,
26:40it made him bigger than he was and extended him to Hollywood, um, in a way that's just, I'm so
26:46proud
26:47of. I think it's so hard to break out and break through and you have to be so big or
26:51have your YouTube
26:52be a certain size that to see someone, I think, and I don't know his current stats on TikTok,
26:578 million followers get those type of viewership numbers. That's incredible.
27:01We're seeing so, I mean, we're seeing the YouTube and the, and the TikTok can move people to the
27:07multiplexes. They can move people to television. It's incredible. Oh my gosh, our time is getting
27:11a little short and I really, really want to end with a conversation about ROI. I want to know
27:17what people's most important metrics are, because one thing is it's very, it's often different for
27:23different brands. And I would love to start with Nick, since you are in the intersection,
27:27representing creators, packaging, selling to brands, what do you find are the ROI that people
27:32care most about? And then I want to hear from the brands.
27:35Yeah. So I, I, thanks for putting me on the spot, by the way. No, um, it really does depend
27:40on the
27:40vertical of the advertiser's in, whether I'm QSR, I'm insurance, I'm movies, right. Um, uh, theatrical
27:47release, stuff like that. It really does depend. Um, ultimately what we're seeing specifically is
27:54when you can do attribution, like in-store foot traffic is something that is really, really key.
28:00And we do have the ability to measure it for some of our brands. Um, and working with certain
28:05creators that have a certain kind of average view duration and watch time and attention and
28:10engagement versus just reach, we're seeing that really move the needle. The other place really
28:16that we're, we're seeing it is from upper funnel, upper funnel and lower funnel measurement that
28:22we're actually doing with third parties. So like we won't grade our own homework. We'll have others do
28:26it. The big thing is when you have a creator actually create your assets for you, create your
28:3315s, your thirties, your media. Um, it could be your social posts too. It can be, you know,
28:38whatever is a part of the structure. You're seeing that that brand lift is a lot higher. You're seeing
28:45that, Hey, when I benchmark against the commercial I made for linear and CTV against the commercial,
28:51the creator made for me, the creator commercial is performing at 40% plus better. Um, and you're
28:56seeing that consideration lift on the lower funnel. So it's because of that attention and engagement
29:02of up top and how much time someone's spending with their brand, it's actually influencing that
29:07lower funnel. We're seeing that's been the biggest payoff for brands to be like, that's what they're
29:13leaning into to most. All right. Does that wash with everybody? Anybody got a different perspective?
29:18I have a slightly different perspective in that for us on our platform, when we know when brands
29:21come with their content, 96% of our searches are unbranded. So our, our pinners are actually looking
29:27for brands. They don't scroll past them. They buy them. And so for us, we really, um, work with our
29:32advertisers to track more behavioral metrics like saves and pins. And we know if they're curating
29:38and planning, they're much more likely to make a purchase. And then also when they purchase on
29:42Pinterest, they're much less likely to return an item or they might return an item if they're
29:47doom scrolling and, and sort of impulse buying. And so we really track more of those behavioral
29:52metrics because it's where we're sort of an action oriented. Our, our platform by design
29:57requires system two thinking. It's not made for doom scrolling. It's made for slightly sitting
30:02up and paying attention to what you're doing. So we really are able to track more of those
30:06behavioral metrics, but also all the upper funnel stuff as well, of course, the engagement
30:10and the attention. But yeah, reaches, you reaches kind of, you know, the impressions are sort of easy
30:16to get, um, and very cheap. Anybody else have any? Yeah, I think like more broadly,
30:21I would first ask the question, what am I trying to achieve? Right. And I think we're speaking to
30:25pockets of what makes sense to our business. I mean, I'm a broadcast network. I want reach.
30:29However, what I would also say that's equally important. And we think about this when we're
30:34looking at audience strategy is like, who's in the bullseye and how do I activate them first?
30:39And so then it becomes a really clear engagement metric because they're going to give me breadcrumbs
30:44for what's driving conversation. What more does the audience want to see? And how do I speak to
30:48them authentically? Right. So it can be a mix depending upon what the strategy is. It might be
30:54reach, but it might be social reach or maybe even earned media reach. So it really, again,
30:58just gets back to what is the strategic imperative for this partnership and the why?
31:06Jasmine, Mariana, any thoughts in terms of what matters to your brands?
31:09Yeah. Um, one of the things we're talking a lot about when it comes to ROI,
31:14is the power of how quality, how good the quality of the creative is.
31:19And when I say that, what I mean is, um, there was a time in marketing where you, you looked
31:25at ROI
31:25based on the media investment. Um, and now we're seeing with great content, it could have the power
31:31that buying media can have. And that goes back to your point about earned media. Um, when we embarked
31:38on like our Superbowl, uh, campaign this year, we thought about, of course, like making this big
31:44Superbowl investment, but what we saw in the content we actually created and the engagement it
31:49drew across platforms, it had its own power of driving, um, that sort of media and reach. And so
31:56we're really, really laser focused on, is this the right creative?
32:02Mariana, any thoughts? Is there getting down to our last minute?
32:05Oh, I'm not an ROI girl. I feel like whenever our marketing team talks to me, I'm like,
32:09well, I would love to really invest in this. And so we're thinking about brand storytelling.
32:12Sometimes I want to go over budget and it's not necessarily all the things that have metrics tied to
32:17it. And I think being a founder of the brand, that's my love of the brand and wanting it to
32:22look
32:23and feel a certain way. And so I really lean on our marketing team to ensure that we stay on
32:26budget
32:26and all those things are hit. But I know that when we talk about metrics that are important to us,
32:31um, EMV is one of the most important metrics when we think about any of our launches, our new launches
32:36that we're doing, events that we have, and also frequency of post. Um, so it's not just the EMV. We
32:40don't want it to come from just a few creators. We want to ensure that with each new product launch
32:44and event or IRL event that we have, that it's thousands of more shares per person, um, as we gain
32:50those.
32:50And so those are some of the metrics that we look at. I'll throw one out. Somebody, a digital media
32:54executive told me that they're tracking DMS people, how many people share it through a DM because they
33:01feel like that is the most, that is the most, just the chef's kiss marketing. Somebody saying you have
33:05to see this. So exactly. Saves and sends are so important now. And I think the save action is
33:09something from Pinterest that you have. And so I know when we're looking at social metrics, if people
33:13are sending and saving, that's almost more important to us now than comments. A hundred percent.
33:17Yeah. We are a long way from 18 to 49 folks. Thank you so much. Thank you all. I love
33:23that
33:23we could have this sophisticated conversation for this crowd. Thank you so much.
33:27Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
33:30You
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