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60 Minutes - Season 58 - Episode 16: Minneapolis / Inside CECOT / Salties
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00:07One week after an ICE agent shot Renee Goode,
00:11this was the scene in Minneapolis.
00:14It is exactly what police chief Brian O'Hara feared.
00:18I'm afraid we're going to have another moment where it all explodes.
00:24Are you bothered by seeing American citizens getting detained in these operations?
00:30I'm bothered by seeing people take action against my officers.
00:35Get out!
00:38It began as soon as the planes landed.
00:42The deportees thought they were headed from the U.S. back to Venezuela,
00:47but instead they were shackled, paraded in front of cameras,
00:51and delivered to Seacot, the notorious maximum security prison in El Salvador,
00:57where they told 60 Minutes they endured four months of hell.
01:01Did you think you were going to die there?
01:03We thought we were already the living dead, honestly.
01:11In the tropical city of Darwin, the sunsets on the beach are spectacular.
01:17Darwin's surrounded by crocodile habitat,
01:20and salties are known for being territorial.
01:24A quick dip in the sea would be over in a flash if you ran into this creature.
01:29So it's just luck?
01:31Yeah, luck.
01:32You could go for a swim here.
01:33I wouldn't go for a swim, no.
01:37I'm Leslie Stahl.
01:39I'm Bill Whitaker.
01:41I'm Anderson Cooper.
01:42I'm Sharon Alfonsi.
01:43I'm John Wertheim.
01:45I'm Cecilia Vega.
01:46I'm Scott Pelley.
01:47Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes.
01:58By now, you have no doubt seen many of the scenes from Minneapolis.
02:03Immigration agents demanding proof of citizenship,
02:06even from some American citizens.
02:09Protesters swarming as agents make arrests.
02:12The fatal shooting of Renee Good by an ICE officer.
02:15This past week, we went to Minneapolis
02:18and spoke with two men at the center of the crisis,
02:21the chief of police and the head of ICE's deportation operation,
02:25both veteran law enforcement officers
02:27with two very different views of what is unfolding.
02:31Tonight, there are 3,000 ICE and Border Patrol agents
02:35in the Minneapolis area.
02:36That's nearly five times the number of police on the city's force,
02:41making it the largest ever deployment
02:43of federal immigration officers to an American city.
02:48One week after an ICE officer shot Renee Good,
02:52this was the scene on the streets of Minneapolis.
02:56Federal immigration agents facing off against angry protesters.
03:03It is exactly what Minneapolis police chief Brian O'Hara feared.
03:08He's been tasked with rebuilding trust
03:11between the community and police
03:13in the wake of George Floyd's murder nearly six years ago.
03:16We're in this 2020 moment
03:18where all these tensions have been building,
03:22and I'm afraid we're going to have another moment
03:24where it all explodes.
03:27Late Wednesday night, we witnessed the anger ourselves.
03:30It's not a good place to be!
03:32Get the f*** out of here!
03:34Leave!
03:36Leave!
03:37Go home!
03:38Leave!
03:38We are just hours after a meeting
03:40with the police chief here in Minneapolis
03:42where he told us that tensions were so high
03:43he was worried that violence would take place,
03:46something else would happen in this community.
03:48You can hear flashbangs behind me.
03:50We are now just a few blocks away
03:52from where federal immigration agents
03:54have been involved in another shooting here in Minneapolis.
03:58ICE says one of its officers shot a Venezuelan man in the leg
04:02after he and two other migrants
04:04attacked the officer with a snow shovel and broom handle.
04:07ICE says the three men are in the country illegally.
04:12The Trump administration says the goal
04:15is to crack down on illegal immigration
04:17and weed out fraud.
04:21They call it Operation Metro Surge.
04:25Elected officials in Minneapolis call it an occupation.
04:29ICE!
04:29ICE!
04:30ICE!
04:31Administration officials are adamant
04:33that this action that they are undertaking in Minneapolis
04:37right now is making this city safer.
04:40Targeted, precise, pre-planned operations
04:44on violent offenders.
04:46That is a good thing.
04:48But I'm concerned that people in the administration
04:52don't actually understand the reality
04:54of what's happening on the street.
04:56Chief O'Hara told us the city's 911 system
05:00is overwhelmed by complaints about immigration enforcement.
05:04What are you seeing?
05:05I've seen multiple calls of people
05:07who have been subjected to tear gas, pepper spray.
05:10No, we need more water.
05:13At least one case, a person was removed from a vehicle
05:16and the car wasn't even placed in park
05:18and it was rolling down the roadway.
05:20In an ideal world...
05:21It is a city on edge.
05:23And as we walked with the chief,
05:25we heard it from a man in a passing car.
05:28How dare you let this happen here!
05:30You should be f***ing ashamed!
05:32You should be f***ing sick!
05:35F***ing pig!
05:36What do you want someone like that,
05:38who just yelled at you and said,
05:40you let this happen, to know?
05:42Well, I have been very publicly saying
05:45this has been a risk for several weeks,
05:48trying to get anyone in a position of authority
05:53to understand that tragedy was imminent.
05:59The fatal shooting of Renee Good
06:01by ICE officer Jonathan Ross
06:03has become a kind of Rorschach test.
06:06Some see a senseless killing.
06:09Others see an officer defending his life.
06:13I've seen the videos
06:14and it's not clear to me why
06:16he appears to be in the path of the vehicle
06:19more than once.
06:21When you approach someone in a vehicle,
06:24in a law enforcement encounter,
06:25there's very basic steps you take
06:28to ensure the officers' safety
06:30and to de-escalate the situation.
06:33But the day after the shooting,
06:36Vice President J.D. Vance
06:37put the blame squarely on Renee Good.
06:40I think that it's a tragedy of her own making.
06:42Homeland Security officials
06:44have accused Good and her wife
06:45of, quote, stalking immigration agents
06:48and impeding their work.
06:50I say go get yourself some lunch, big boy.
06:52Go ahead.
06:52Top federal prosecutors in Minnesota resigned in part,
06:56sources told CBS News,
06:58because they were told to investigate
07:00the actions of Renee Good and her wife
07:02rather than Officer Ross.
07:04Shame!
07:06State investigators were blocked
07:07from the investigation altogether.
07:10Can Americans trust what's coming out
07:13about the status of this investigation right now?
07:17The rhetoric that's coming out
07:18from a lot of our politicians is to not trust us.
07:21Which is very odd to me
07:25when a lot of Americans would rather believe
07:28what they see on TikTok
07:30compared to a government agency.
07:34We spoke to ICE's Marcos Charles,
07:36who oversees arrests and deportations nationwide,
07:40including Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis.
07:44Could you see why some Americans might think
07:48that what's happening on the streets
07:49and some of these cities lead them to see ICE's
07:52feeling emboldened right now?
07:54I would tell those people or ask those people
07:57to become educated on what we do and how we do it
08:01and what our authorizations are and the laws in general.
08:04Get out!
08:06Videos of confrontations between protestors
08:09and immigration agents seem to go viral nearly every day.
08:14They have a right to observe, record, and object to police activity.
08:19Do they have a right to get in an agent's face and call them a Nazi?
08:25People have a right to say disrespectful things.
08:28As a professional, I have an obligation not to take that personally
08:32and not to retaliate.
08:34However, they cannot physically obstruct law enforcement
08:39from performing a function.
08:41Those things are illegal.
08:43This past week, the Department of Homeland Security
08:46posted a message from White House Deputy Chief of Staff
08:49Stephen Miller telling ICE agents,
08:52you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties.
08:56Does that mean that immigration agents can go into American cities
09:01and carry out immigration enforcement with no accountability, no consequences?
09:06I'm not going to comment on Mr. Miller's statement
09:09as far as in the context that you're asking.
09:12However, I will tell you that everywhere we go in the United States,
09:16our officers are out there conducting enforcement actions
09:19and they're doing it lawfully and with professionalism.
09:23But scenes like this in Minneapolis,
09:26where one officer drags a woman
09:28and another points his gun at bystanders,
09:31have raised questions about their conduct.
09:34No one has been disciplined in any of these actions?
09:38No, no.
09:39I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear you say that.
09:41If you assault one of our officers,
09:43an assault would be putting hands on one of my officers,
09:45spitting in their face, pushing them,
09:47you're going to get arrested.
09:48I don't think most Americans would disagree with you on that.
09:53What concerns a lot of people is some of the images that they've seen.
09:56There's a perception out there that immigration agents in Minneapolis
10:01and many other cities are acting with impunity.
10:04You're not seeing the entirety of the situation.
10:07Not only that, mainstream media is picking up those social media posts
10:11and putting them out as real news without looking at the whole story.
10:15We did look into this story.
10:19Six days after and two blocks away from where Renee Good was killed,
10:24Alia Rahman, a U.S. citizen, was trying to get to an appointment
10:28at a traumatic brain injury clinic when she came upon ICE officers
10:32who were blocking traffic after arresting four people.
10:41We reviewed footage of the entire incident.
10:45Rahman's lawyer told us she was overwhelmed by conflicting commands from ICE.
10:59In the chaos, you can hear her say she is disabled.
11:11Chief O'Hara hadn't seen the video before we showed it to him.
11:25You were shaking watching that.
11:31Obviously, I don't know why law enforcement officers initially approached the vehicle.
11:37It pisses me off to see that, to see men doing that to a woman who's disabled.
11:44It pisses me off.
11:46If those cops works for me, they'd have a problem right now.
11:51Marcos Charles of Ice had a different take.
11:54He said Aliyah Rahman was given repeated warnings.
11:58She was arrested but never charged.
12:00Our officers are told that they give one warning to follow the lawful instruction to stop impeding.
12:06If she did not obey that lawful order, then she was going to get arrested.
12:11You know, I showed this same clip to the Minneapolis police chief, and he said if those cops worked for
12:17him, they'd have a problem.
12:19We're not Minneapolis PD.
12:20Are you bothered by seeing American citizens getting detained in these operations?
12:26I'm bothered by seeing people take action against my officers, using vehicles to try to ram them, assaulting my officers.
12:37Our officers are humans.
12:40You know, they're people.
12:42The Department of Homeland Security released these images of injured ICE officers.
12:47According to the agency, attacks on ICE officers nationwide jumped from 19 in 2024 to 275 last year.
12:57In many cases, those injuries were sustained, as agents were carrying out what ICE calls targeted enforcement.
13:07In Minneapolis, many residents say it seems to be less targeted every day.
13:13American citizens are getting stopped and questioned, including a woman walking down the street.
13:19Ma'am, where were you born?
13:21It doesn't matter where I was born.
13:23I belong here.
13:24I am a citizen.
13:25And this Uber driver.
13:27I can hear you don't have the same accent as me.
13:28That's why I'm asking you.
13:29Oh, so you're going by accents now?
13:30People have been stopped for simply appearing to be Somali or appearing to be Latino or appearing to be foreign.
13:39And it's concerning because we also know we're not getting these stories from Irish folks and Norwegian folks here.
13:48Our officers are conducting targeted enforcement, looking for the worst of the worst, but if they encounter anybody in the
13:54area of which they're operating,
13:56they are okay to talk to those people.
13:58They've been authorized to talk to anybody that's around there and establish citizenship.
14:03How is that targeted enforcement?
14:05If they were in that area looking for a target and they were en route or coming from that target
14:11and encountered that individual,
14:15they are authorized to talk to somebody and speak to somebody.
14:18I mean, how do you define the area?
14:20Officers are walking down the street, driving down the street, the entire city of Minneapolis.
14:24Is everybody potentially under suspicion?
14:29No.
14:29Nobody's under suspicion, but we're looking for those targets.
14:33And again, if we encounter somebody as we're walking up to a building, as we're en route to that building,
14:40that's still part of that operation as they proceed to that target.
14:43On Friday, sources told CBS News the Justice Department is investigating the city's mayor, Jacob Frey,
14:51and the state's governor, Tim Walz, both Democrats.
14:54The allegation that their public statements about ICE enforcement amount to criminal interference.
15:01To ICE?
15:02Get the f*** out of Minneapolis.
15:05Frey and Walz called the investigation political intimidation.
15:09What could happen today, tomorrow, to bring this temperature down out there?
15:14I think it requires the president to say, we're still going to go after the worst of the worst,
15:20but we're not going to be treating American citizens in ways that risk destroying a beautiful American city.
15:37Nicholas Maduro, the former president of Venezuela, now sits in a federal jail in New York awaiting trial.
15:44After a high-stakes raid, the White House touted Maduro's capture as a blow to narco-terrorists,
15:50who it says flooded U.S. streets with drugs.
15:53The repression of the Maduro regime, over more than a decade, forced 8 million Venezuelans to flee,
16:00nearly a million of them to the United States.
16:03Last year, in the biggest U.S. immigration crackdown in recent history,
16:08hundreds of those Venezuelans were deported to El Salvador, a country most had no connection to.
16:14The White House claimed they were part of a violent gang and designated them as terrorists.
16:19The administration invoked a centuries-old wartime power, the Alien Enemies Act,
16:25to rapidly deport some of the men.
16:28Between March and April of last year, the U.S. sent 252 Venezuelan men
16:34to a brutal maximum security prison in El Salvador known as SICOT.
16:39You'll hear from two of those men.
16:41They described torture, sexual and physical abuse inside the prison.
16:46Since November, 60 Minutes has made several attempts to interview key Trump administration
16:52officials on camera about our story.
16:55They declined our request.
16:57Tonight, our report from inside SICOT.
17:02It began as soon as the planes landed.
17:06The deportees thought they were headed back to Venezuela,
17:09but then saw hundreds of Salvadoran police waiting for them on the tarmac.
17:17Shackled, they were paraded in front of cameras, pushed onto buses, and delivered to SICOT,
17:24El Salvador's notorious maximum security prison.
17:33When we got there, the SICOT director was talking to us.
17:37The first thing he told us was that we would never see the light of day or night again.
17:43He said, welcome to hell.
17:45I'll make sure you never leave.
17:47Did you think you were going to die there?
17:49We thought we were already the living dead, honestly.
17:51We met Luis Munoz Pinto in Colombia.
17:55He was a college student in repressive Venezuela and hoped to seek asylum in the United States.
18:01In 2024, he says, he waited in Mexico until his scheduled appointment with U.S. Customs and Border Protection in
18:08California.
18:09During that interview...
18:11They just looked at me and told me I was a danger to society.
18:15You have no criminal record?
18:17I don't even... I never even got a traffic ticket.
18:21Nevertheless, he was detained by customs.
18:23He says he spent six months locked up in the U.S., waiting for a decision on his asylum case
18:29when he was deported.
18:32One of 252 Venezuelans sent to SICOT between March and April.
18:39Inside, he says, their hands and feet were tied.
18:42Forced to their knees, their heads were shaved.
18:46There was blood everywhere, screams, people crying, people who couldn't take it and were urinating and vomiting on themselves.
18:54When you get there, you already know you're in hell.
18:57You don't need anyone else to tell you.
18:59He says the guards began savagely beating them with their fists and batons.
19:05Tell me about what they did to you personally.
19:09Four guards grabbed me, and they beat me until I bled, to the point of agony.
19:14They knocked our faces against the wall.
19:15That was when they broke one of my teeth.
19:20SICOT, the terrorism confinement center, was built in 2022.
19:27As a key part of Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele's sweeping anti-gang crackdown.
19:34The massive prison, designed to hold 40,000 inmates and its harsh reputation,
19:40are a point of pride for Bukele, who regularly allows social media influencers to tour it.
19:46As you can see, we're initially in the middle of the desert.
19:49Guards show off cramped cells, where metal bunks are stacked four high.
19:54There are no mattresses or sheets.
19:56Inmates said they had no access to the outdoors and no contact with relatives.
20:03International observers warned SICOT was violating the U.N. standard for minimum treatment of prisoners.
20:10And two years ago, during the Biden administration,
20:14the U.S. State Department cited torture and life-threatening prison conditions in its report on El Salvador.
20:21But this year, during a meeting with President Bukele at the White House,
20:26President Trump expressed admiration for El Salvador's prison system.
20:30They're great facilities, very strong facilities, and they don't play games.
20:37In March, the U.S. struck a deal to pay El Salvador $4.7 million to house Venezuelan deportees at
20:45SICOT.
20:46These are heinous monsters, rapists, murderers, kidnappers, sexual assaulters, predators,
20:52who have no right to be in this country, and they must be held accountable.
20:55The U.S. government said, these people are the worst of the worst.
21:00These people are migrants.
21:01And the sad reality is that the U.S. government tried to make an example out of them.
21:07They sent them to a place where they were likely to be tortured,
21:11to send migrants across Latin America the message that they should not come to the United States.
21:17Juan Papier is a deputy director at the nonprofit Human Rights Watch.
21:22In an 81-page report released in November, the organization concluded there was systematic torture and other abuses at SICOT,
21:31and that nearly half of the Venezuelans the U.S. sent there had no criminal history.
21:36Only eight of the men had been convicted of a violent or potentially violent offense.
21:42How do you know they weren't gang members?
21:44We cross-referenced federal databases, databases in all 50 states in the United States,
21:50and also obtained criminal records in Venezuela and in the countries where these people lived.
21:57And the information we obtained in the United States is based on data provided by ICE.
22:04So ICE's own records said...
22:06ICE's own records say that only 3% of them had been sentenced for a violent or potentially violent crime.
22:1260 Minutes reviewed the available ICE data.
22:15It confirms the findings of Human Rights Watch.
22:18It shows 70 men had pending criminal charges in the U.S., which could include immigration violations.
22:25We don't know because the Department of Homeland Security has never released a complete list
22:30of the names or criminal histories of the men it sent to SICOT.
22:35Rapid deportations have been a key part of the Trump administration's immigration overhaul.
22:41The administration considers anyone who crosses the border illegally to be a criminal.
22:46Illegal crossings are now at a historic low.
22:49But some immigration attorneys say the administration has used flawed criteria to justify deportations.
22:57I have some tattoos.
23:01None of them have anything to do with any criminal group.
23:04I explained to them, saying that I didn't belong to any gang, to which the agent responded,
23:10but you are Venezuelan.
23:1360 Minutes reviewed this document agents used to assess Venezuelans.
23:18A person with eight points was designated as a Trendy Aragua gang member and deportable.
23:24Tattoos an immigration officer suspected of being gang-related earned four points.
23:30But criminologists who study gangs say tattoos are not a reliable way to identify Venezuelan gang members
23:37because, unlike some Central American gangs, such as MS-13,
23:43Trendy Aragua does not use tattoos to signal membership.
23:48Venezuelan national William Lozada Sanchez was also deported to SICOT.
23:53He told us the guards there also accused Venezuelans with tattoos of being gang members.
23:59He detailed months of abuse and being forced into stress positions.
24:04So you had to be on your knees for 24 hours?
24:07Yes, because they put a guard there to watch us so that we wouldn't move.
24:11And what would happen if you could make it?
24:16They'd take us to the island.
24:18What's the island?
24:20The island is a little room where there's no light, no ventilation, nothing.
24:25It's a cell for punishment where you can't see your hand in front of your face.
24:30After they locked us in, they came to beat us every half hour.
24:34And they pounded on the door with their sticks to traumatize us while we were in there.
24:38The torture was never-ending.
24:41They would take you there and beat you for hours and leave you locked in there for days.
24:47Some of the deportees described being sexually assaulted by the guards.
24:52They were hitting your private parts?
24:53SÃ.
24:54With a baton?
24:56No.
24:57No, they tugged at them with their hands.
24:58And they did that to multiple people?
25:02To most of us.
25:04The men say they grew weaker by the day.
25:07They claim the prison lights were left on 24 hours a day, making it difficult to sleep,
25:12and that food and medicine were often withheld.
25:16Did you have access to clean water?
25:19They never gave us access to clean water.
25:20The same water from our baths and toilets was the same water that we had to drink and survive on.
25:28If we had serious injuries, when the doctors examined us, they told us that drinking water would heal it.
25:34So they're telling the injured prisoners to drink water, and the water's filthy?
25:39Super filthy.
25:40Super filthy.
25:41Super filthy.
25:43The sicker and more injured we were, the better it was for them.
25:46In late March, about 10 days after the first U.S. deportees arrived, Department of Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem,
25:55toured the prison.
25:56Did they speak to anybody, any of the prisoners?
25:59Never.
26:00Not with any of the detainees.
26:02They never spoke to us.
26:04We only saw the cameras.
26:05At some point, Secretary Noem went to another area of the prison to record this video.
26:11First of all, I want to thank El Salvador and their president for their partnership with the United States of
26:15America to bring our terrorists here and to incarcerate them.
26:19There were men standing behind her, heavily tattooed.
26:23Who are those men?
26:24Do we know?
26:25We know that those men in her video are not Venezuelans.
26:28They are Salvadorians, probably accused of being gang leaders, probably people who have been in jail for many, many years
26:35in El Salvador.
26:36Human Rights Watch was able to confirm that with the help of this intrepid team of students at UC Berkeley's
26:43Human Rights Center.
26:44All the visible men have either an MS on their chest or a 13 or an ES for El Salvador,
26:50and all those gangs are associated with El Salvador.
26:53Not the Venezuelans.
26:54To help verify the deportees' stories for Human Rights Watch, the team of students combed through open-source data for
27:02weeks.
27:03Students are trained in advanced techniques and follow strict international standards for obtaining digital evidence that can be used in
27:12courts.
27:13Analyzing satellite imagery, they mapped the prison and identified the building where the Venezuelans were held.
27:19And remember all those influencers who filmed inside CICOT?
27:23One toured an isolation cell.
27:26These are the rooms of solitary confinement.
27:28That matched the description of the so-called island where the deportees described being tortured.
27:34And they get absolutely nothing to use to sleep or to rest.
27:39Just pure conquest.
27:41A show-and-tell of the armory confirmed CICOT had the weapons the Venezuelans say guards used on them.
27:49What we did see in these videos was the use of the T-batons on prisoners.
27:55Additionally, we also saw the use of painful body positions.
27:59They were showing that off in the videos.
28:01And they do that.
28:02It's sort of a practice.
28:04But it was this interview with the prison warden that proved to be most helpful.
28:09The light system is 24 hours a day.
28:13One of the questions that we had was, are the lights on 24-7?
28:16He said, yes, they are.
28:17So he's talking about how hot it can get in the prison.
28:21So there's this sort of pride around the poor conditions and around the suffering.
28:28Using extreme temperatures or light to disorient inmates is also prohibited under UN standards.
28:34I think one of the things that the work of this team has really shown is that a lot of
28:40these stories can be believed.
28:42Alexa Koenig is the director of Berkeley's Investigations Lab, which trains students to research war crimes and human rights violations.
28:50And it's those little details that I think then, if you can bring that together with the physical evidence,
28:55I think you have the strongest possible case for accountability, whether it's a court of public opinion or at some
29:01point in a court of law.
29:02The Department of Homeland Security declined our request for an interview and referred all questions about SICOT to El Salvador.
29:11The government there did not respond to our request.
29:16In July, after four months, the 252 Venezuelan men were finally released from SICOT and sent back to Caracas
29:25in exchange for 10 Americans that had been imprisoned in Venezuela.
29:29The Trump administration has arranged more deals, some valued at millions of dollars,
29:36to offload U.S. deportees to other so-called third countries, nations to which they have no connection.
29:43Among them, war-torn South Sudan and Uganda, which have well-documented histories of torturing prisoners.
29:5260 Minutes has repeatedly asked the Department of Homeland Security for the complete records and criminal backgrounds
29:59of all 252 Venezuelan men the U.S. sent to SICOT.
30:04It would not provide them.
30:06This past week, DHS told us,
30:09We are confident in our law enforcement's intelligence and we aren't going to share intelligence reports
30:15and undermine national security every time a gang member denies he is one.
30:20That would be insane.
30:22Because of this, we relied on the ICE data that is available for our reporting.
30:27Of the 252 men, that data shows that 33 had been convicted of a crime in the U.S.,
30:35again, eight of them for violent or potentially violent crimes.
30:39Another 70 had pending charges, but we don't know the nature of those charges
30:44because DHS refuses to share that information.
30:48Neither of the two detainees in our story has been convicted of any crimes in the U.S.
30:53Nine days ago, DHS sent 60 Minutes a photo of William Lozada Sanchez's left arm
31:00with this swastika tattoo.
31:02When we interviewed Lozada in November, this is what his arm looked like.
31:06He told us he got the offensive tattoo at 15 and didn't know what it meant.
31:11He claims he regretted it and had it changed just before the U.S. sent him to SICOT.
31:17Five gang experts told us that swastikas and 666,
31:21another tattoo on Lozada's arm,
31:24have no connection to the violent Venezuelan gang, Trendy Aragua.
31:29In a statement to 60 Minutes, the White House said,
31:32President Trump is committed to keeping his promises to the American people
31:37by removing dangerous criminal and terrorist illegal aliens.
31:41The administration's statements are available in full online.
31:46DHS deflected all questions about abuse allegations at SICOT,
31:50saying the men were not under U.S. jurisdiction while in El Salvador.
31:55But last month, a federal judge ruled that the U.S. had maintained what's called
32:00constructive custody over the Venezuelans who were sent to SICOT under the Alien Enemies Act.
32:06He ordered the Trump administration to give those men the due process they were denied.
32:11In a declaration to the court, Secretary of State Marco Rubio explained in part
32:17that bringing the deported Venezuelans to the U.S. for hearings
32:21or holding remote ones at this time would risk, quote,
32:25material damage to U.S. foreign policy interests in Venezuela.
32:38Now, Holly Williams on assignment for 60 Minutes.
32:44Australia's infamous for the variety of ways its wildlife can kill you.
32:48Deadly snakes, spiders and jellyfish.
32:51But when it comes to inspiring fear,
32:54Australia's saltwater crocodiles are in a category of their own.
32:58They can grow to more than 20 feet, way over a tonne,
33:03and have a bite force strong enough to crush a human skull.
33:08Saltees, as Australians call the apex predators,
33:11live across swaths of the country's north.
33:14They're protected by law, and because of that,
33:17their numbers have surged in recent years,
33:19creating friction with another species, humans.
33:27In the tropical city of Darwin, the sunsets on the beach are spectacular,
33:32though most people stay well away from the water.
33:36Darwin's surrounded by crocodile habitat,
33:40and salties are known for being territorial.
33:43A quick dip in the sea would be over in a flash
33:46if you ran into this creature.
33:49So it's just luck?
33:51Yeah, luck.
33:52You could go for a swim here and be fine.
33:55I wouldn't go for a swim, no.
33:58On the shores of Darwin's idyllic harbour,
34:01crocodiles sometimes show up in backyards.
34:04Anywhere they get too close to humans,
34:06Tom Nicholls and his team of government rangers
34:09have the job of removing them.
34:14It's one of those crocs that doesn't want to open his mouth.
34:17They're known as problem crocodiles,
34:19though catching them is fairly easy
34:22in cages baited with wild boar meat.
34:27It's getting an angry salty out of a floating trap
34:31with a rope and a zip tie that's an art form.
34:37Nicholls told us this six-footer wasn't fully grown yet.
34:40It could easily kill a human.
34:43Now, this size crocodile,
34:45he wouldn't kill you by biting
34:47unless he bit you in a certain place,
34:49but he would drown you quite easily.
34:51He'd take you down under water
34:54and then he'd come back up
34:55and then he'd start spinning around.
34:57And that's what they call the death roll?
34:59The death roll, that's correct.
35:01That's how a crocodile took off half of Nicholls' left hand
35:04just over 20 years ago in this exact spot.
35:09With the crocodile, if it didn't spin,
35:10I would have been all right.
35:11But the trouble is, he's spinning,
35:12he spun all my hand around.
35:14You operate just fine with three fingers in your left hand.
35:17Is there anything you can't do?
35:19Yeah, pick my nose with my left hand.
35:22All joking aside,
35:24salties are the largest reptiles on the planet,
35:28much bigger than alligators,
35:29and according to some scientists,
35:31the Australian crocs are the world's most aggressive.
35:39But that didn't protect them from hunters.
35:42The huge reptile is mastered.
35:43One of 33 captured on this exciting trip.
35:48By the 1970s,
35:50they were so close to extinction,
35:52with just a few thousand left,
35:54that Australian officials banned
35:56nearly all crocodile hunting.
35:59Since then,
36:00the populations bounced back
36:01to over 150,000 and counting.
36:05That's a conservation success story to some.
36:09A menace to others.
36:13Crocodiles are way misunderstood.
36:15They've survived the times of the dinosaurs,
36:17and that is a question of respect.
36:20They're also pretty scary.
36:21Not really.
36:23Humans are far more scary.
36:25We kill each other for a lot less,
36:27for money.
36:28And crocodiles only kill for food.
36:32Trevor Sullivan keeps 10 saltwater crocodiles
36:36in his backyard,
36:38behind patched-up chain-link fencing.
36:43Can I stand up on the back here?
36:45Oh, my God.
36:48Sharp. Sharp.
36:49He feeds them whole chickens by hand.
36:53He rescued most of them
36:55from crocodile farms
36:56and research facilities,
36:58including the biggest one,
36:59Shah,
37:00who's over 120 years old
37:03and missing part of his jaw.
37:06Trevor,
37:08what would happen
37:09if this fence wasn't here?
37:11Nothing.
37:11What do you mean, nothing?
37:14I've fed him in there.
37:15I've gone in and fed him.
37:16You go over the fence?
37:17Yeah.
37:18With a 16-foot crocodile.
37:20He's not a problem.
37:20That one is.
37:23It's all right here.
37:24It's all right, Shah.
37:26Sullivan's a self-described conservationist
37:29and told us he keeps crocodiles
37:31to prove they can coexist safely with humans.
37:35They answer to their name.
37:36They come when you teach them.
37:37You can train them.
37:38Get them into a routine.
37:40They're not just pet.
37:41They're family.
37:41I'm sorry.
37:42They're family?
37:43They're family.
37:43OK, so just for the sake of clarity,
37:46they don't see you as food?
37:48No.
37:49I bring food.
37:52You're also a big chunk of protein.
37:54Yes.
37:56Dogs eat meat.
37:58They don't generally see you as food.
38:00Rangers are searching for a killer crocodile.
38:03The truth is that crocodiles do kill people,
38:07though we were surprised to learn
38:09that only around 50 deaths have been reported in Australia
38:12since hunting was banned half a century ago.
38:15That might be because of public education campaigns
38:19warning people to keep a distance.
38:22Many of those who've been killed by salties
38:24misjudged where it was safe to swim or go fishing.
38:28But there's also anger in Australia
38:30that the law protects crocodiles instead of people.
38:35They die?
38:36Yeah, well, so do we at the end of the day.
38:39Bob Catter is a member of Australia's parliament
38:41with a reputation as a combative lawmaker.
38:45You're going to get a big bath.
38:47Order.
38:48You're going to get a big bath.
38:49Order.
38:50Order.
38:51You're a very popular man in these parts.
38:54One of Catter's most controversial positions
38:56is that he wants the crocodile hunting ban repealed.
38:59Yes.
39:01Yes.
39:02His electorate is about 1,000 miles south-east of Darwin,
39:06much of its farmland,
39:07where cattle are sometimes eaten by salties.
39:11When you were growing up in northern Australia,
39:13did you used to go swimming in the rivers here?
39:15Oh, absolutely.
39:17You know, every Saturday, Sunday,
39:19you'd be down the river.
39:20Can the children do that now?
39:21Can they go swimming in the river?
39:22No way.
39:23No way you would risk your life
39:25if you went near any of these waterways.
39:28He told us he's tempted to risk arrest
39:31by shooting a crocodile himself.
39:33You think the law is evil?
39:36Yes, absolutely.
39:37A law that puts the value of a crocodile over a human being,
39:42that is a definition of evil.
39:45Bob Catter believes that legalising crocodile hunting would make waterways safe again
39:51and turn a profit by attracting big game hunters.
39:54Other Australians disagree with his science and his economics.
39:59They say salties are worth more alive than dead.
40:04Darwin's roaring tourism trade relies in large part on crocodiles.
40:09Wow, look at that, nice.
40:11Great time to see crocodiles, Dinger.
40:13Beautiful.
40:14Oh, yeah.
40:14Just outside the city, you can pay for a close encounter with some cold-blooded killers.
40:23He'll be waiting for you to look away.
40:25He'll move real quick.
40:36Humans and crocodiles have shared this land for around 50,000 years.
40:41We drove to Kakadu National Park to meet some of Australia's indigenous people.
40:47Kakadu is bigger than Connecticut,
40:49home to a few hundred people and around 10,000 crocodiles.
40:54Oh, thank you.
40:55This way.
40:57Gleeson Nabulwad is an indigenous Australian who works as a river guide.
41:02It looks like something in there.
41:04Like other traditional owners, he's permitted by law to hunt crocodiles for food.
41:09How do you hunt it?
41:11A spear.
41:11With a spear.
41:12Is it good eating?
41:13Yeah, that tastes like fish.
41:15Like fish.
41:17Nabulwad and his friend Robert Namarnyulk told us indigenous Australians disagree about salties
41:23just like other Australians.
41:25Some favour commercial hunting.
41:27Others prize them as a totem or spiritual emblem that should be left alone.
41:32It's like a crocodile and us, we've been together for a very long time.
41:38You have a special connection.
41:40Yes.
41:41Trevor Sullivan is also of indigenous ancestry.
41:45He believes living with saltwater crocodiles is not just possible, but a privilege.
41:52It's the best fun being able to co-exist with saltwater crocodiles, the most dangerous predator
41:58on earth, and your croc attacks are almost non-existing.
42:01But isn't one fatal attack of a human being too many attacks?
42:07Well, what are we supposed to die from?
42:11Millions of years before people ever set foot on this wild land, Australia was croc country.
42:19As humans debate their future, the crocodiles are a lesson in survival.
42:34I'm Scott Pelley, we'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.
42:44The next edition of 60 Minutes and the Old, the Voices of the Co-Carrone, the Co-Carrone, the Co
42:46-Carrone, the Co-Carrone and the Co-Carrone, the Co-Carrone, the Co-Carrone and the Co-Carrone.
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