- 22 hours ago
Miami Heat beat writer at the Sun Sentinel Ira Winderman talks a potential Giannis trade, the Heat’s lottery chances and why the org can’t tank.
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00:00We see you, Ira.
00:01Looks so nice there.
00:03But he's muted.
00:04How come I can't hear Ira?
00:06He's there.
00:07We got Ira.
00:07Let me see if I can get unmuted.
00:09Do you hear me now?
00:10I couldn't hear you.
00:11Oh, so Solana muted me.
00:13Yeah, there we go.
00:15I don't want to throw Jimmy under the bus, but I think it was Jimmy.
00:17No, no.
00:18I mute the guest.
00:20I mute the guest, Ira.
00:21It's on me.
00:22I mute the guest anytime we add you to the stream, but we're in commercial break.
00:25Just in case.
00:26I don't know if, you know, you're on the phone with some NBA executives.
00:29You're about to break some news.
00:30I don't want anybody to be blindsided.
00:33Oh, let's be honest.
00:35All I'm doing is trying to find out what Barry Jackson says.
00:37Come on.
00:37Let's be honest here.
00:38So now I was saying, I said, Ira has been covering the heat for 32 years.
00:46And I went to your Twitter account and it's 38 years.
00:50And you can follow Ira on Twitter at Ira heat beat.
00:53And it says 38 years, but a whole bunch of balloons showed up when I got to your
00:59Twitter page.
01:00Is it your birthday or is it your Twitterversary?
01:03It happens to be my birthday.
01:05It happens to be, we don't, we don't have to post the age or anything.
01:08Wow.
01:09You know what?
01:10My wife said, what do you want for your birthday?
01:14And I said, an appearance with Hockman would be great.
01:16And she said, well, you know, he charges now, you know, it's like, it's like that private
01:20thing he does on the side.
01:21So apparently my wife brought me an appearance with Hockman, but apparently she did not have
01:28the funds to also buy Crowder's appearance.
01:31So I understand.
01:32I thought you had asked for Len to retire for your birthday.
01:37And because he was so excited to get you back on the air, he announced his retirement.
01:41I thought it was a, it was part and parcel of his retirement announcement, but it wasn't
01:46that, you know, I have been through so many QAM program directors and God bless Len and
01:51what he's done and nothing but best wishes for someone who honestly, I don't know, even
01:55Hock, you've told me this, someone who lives for talk rate sports, talk radio more than
01:59Len.
02:00He literally lived the lifestyle.
02:02Yeah.
02:03I've been through a bunch of program directors as well.
02:06Not at QAM at QAM.
02:07It's just been Andy King, Ryan McGuire, the absolute worst.
02:14I mean, I can't, I can't, there's no one in media.
02:16I dislike more than Ryan McGuire and Len.
02:20So really anyone who was coming after Ryan McGuire was good.
02:24I actually, I thought that the Marlins ownership, I always said, whoever comes after Jeffrey Loria
02:30and David Sampson is going to walk into the pantheon of greatest South Florida ownership
02:35groups of all time.
02:36And then you get Bruce Sherman and Derek Jeter, who may have been more, Derek Jeter may have
02:42been as disliked as, uh, as Loria and Samson.
02:46And you know what?
02:47I don't want to get too much into the weeds, but you know, who also was great was Alison
02:50Turner when she was here and the way she took care of Hank Goldberg, because Hank was going
02:54through his diabetes.
02:55It was a thousand degrees in the studio and he was still cold and she would literally layer
03:00him with jackets while I was in the old studio with him also.
03:05So she was one of the good ones.
03:07Now I didn't work for her as program director at QAM though.
03:10She was our program director for a while at seven 90, but at five 60, uh, I, I, I missed
03:17her.
03:17I had no idea.
03:19Alison Turner was a program director at WQAM.
03:23I didn't know she worked at QAM.
03:25Yeah.
03:26Yeah.
03:26It's been many years.
03:27Yeah.
03:28Wow.
03:28I'll give you the whole, uh, whenever you have some free moments, me and tree, we'll sit
03:31you down, Solana, we'll give you the whole background on QAM.
03:35One, give me, give me the timeline Ira.
03:38So the NBA, uh, draft, uh, lottery is Sunday.
03:41The heat have the ability to pick one or where, and what are the chances?
03:49The heat have the ability.
03:50It's random, but it's weighted based on regular season records.
03:53So you can move into the top four picks in the random part of the drawing.
03:56By the way, if anyone watched the NHL lottery, I still don't know what the hell is going up,
04:00but that's another story for another day.
04:03So the heat can pick either one through four.
04:06They have a 1% chance at the topic, a 4.8% chance of moving into the top four
04:11or hold seat
04:14at 13 or move back to 14 if Charlotte would jump them with even lesser odds.
04:19So basically the heater playing for one, two, three, four, 13 or 14.
04:23The drawing is three o'clock Sunday on ABC.
04:26So we'll know more than the heat have never moved up in the lottery.
04:29As a matter of fact, in all their appearances, they moved back 10 total places.
04:33One of the worst records in the lottery.
04:37But you know what?
04:38The joy of that is even if they don't move up, you get to watch Alonzo Morning scowl on set.
04:43So at least there's that.
04:47Ira, what do you make of heat fans who are saying the NBA owes this to the Miami heat?
04:53The Miami heat have avoided tanking, which clearly right now is enemy number one by Adam
05:00silver and all his, uh, his, his guys enemy.
05:03Number one is tanking.
05:04The heat have avoided tanking.
05:06And like you just mentioned, they've never moved up in the lottery.
05:10Do you believe that there's any finagling of those lottery balls behind the scenes?
05:15And that maybe the NBA will do the Miami heat a solid.
05:19Well, look, we know there are major accounting firms who handle multi-billion dollar accounts,
05:25and they're not going to put their reputation at risk.
05:27So for all of the frozen envelope for Patrick Ewing, even in the NHL, look at the NHL lottery
05:32this week on Tuesday, when Toronto, a signature franchise, all of a sudden Ashton Matthews is
05:37not enough.
05:38And all of a sudden they get the number one pick again because they have to salvage them.
05:41I get it.
05:43Sometimes it can look a little shit, you know, shifty look last year, Luka Doncic,
05:47the worst trade in NBA history.
05:48We can debate that boom.
05:49Hey, you got Cooper flag.
05:51I will say this.
05:52If a team deserves it after the Terry Rozier fiasco and not being told by the league of
05:58the Hornets and then telling them the heat, you will take a second round pick.
06:02You will accept it.
06:03And you will not complain.
06:05They've done everything in compliance.
06:06I think it would be a fair turn.
06:08I do not think this stuff is rigged because it can't be.
06:11But Solana, to your point, would it be the right thing for the Heat to get there just
06:17do of playing to win, of going to the end, of trying to win that game in Charlotte in
06:21overtime and except for the last four seconds winning that game?
06:25Yeah, you should reward some teams who do something.
06:28And I felt all along, Solana, even if you don't win the lottery, I still believe the
06:32league should have given the Heat a compensatory first round pick somewhere, sometime to make
06:37up for the Rozier fiasco.
06:39So yeah, the Heat have been screwed in the process, but no, I can't really count on ping
06:43pong balls.
06:44What do you think is the reality of, because Solana said enemy number one for Adam Silver
06:51is tanking, and it is annoying, and it's been more apparent this season, was more apparent
06:56this season, the Utah, the couple games that Utah was resting starters in the fourth quarter
07:01where it was just so blatantly obvious.
07:03But how much of it do you think is real?
07:07How much is lip service?
07:08Because we now know at the end of the season, they had record TV ratings.
07:13The postseason delivers.
07:15I've said this since the play-in.
07:17You know what?
07:18If the postseason is this good, and obviously you'd love to see Embiid out there.
07:23You'd love to see Tatum out there.
07:25I don't doubt that they're actually hurt.
07:28Would they have played in a different era and muscled through it?
07:31Maybe, but how much do you think is just lip service?
07:34Oh, we're addressing the tanking stuff, and how much of it is just like, yeah, wink, wink,
07:41everything happens to be great.
07:43We're a multi-billion dollar business.
07:45Ratings are through the roof.
07:47What are we really tinkering with?
07:50And ratings are through the roof because they never show the Craptola teams anyway, so it
07:54doesn't matter.
07:55As long as your league, and Solana, you know this from your European soccer leagues, as long
07:59as you have five or six top teams in La Liga, Serie A, you know, even in France, as long
08:04as you have enough top teams, you just feature them all the time.
08:07I mean, you know, when you turned on Prime or Peacock or ESPN, you saw the Knicks, you
08:12saw the Lakers, you saw the Celtics.
08:13No one even knows that there are Charlotte Hornets, you know, or teams in these other
08:18places, so you can bury them.
08:20To me, there's only one way to do it, and it is relegation.
08:22And no, it's not relegation to the G League because the NBA owes the G League.
08:26I would say it'd be something like this.
08:28You now have 30 NBA teams, you're going to go to 32.
08:31Have a 20-team NBA, a 12-team relegation league.
08:34Same teams, same arenas, same players.
08:37Then if you screw up and go to the lottery, yeah, you get a lottery pick, but your lottery
08:42pick instead winds up being, you know, with a team that's trying to get unrelegated.
08:47Then maybe the bottom, even, it doesn't have to be severe.
08:50Maybe the bottom two of those 20 go down, and maybe we make the league bigger and three
08:55or four come up.
08:56You do something like that.
08:57But unless you have European-style relegation, and I know it, big fans of Leeds United, we've
09:02been down on the championship, we're back up now with the Premier League, it means everything.
09:06That's the only way to do it.
09:07But Hawk, when you talk about ratings and you talk about playoffs, as long as you have
09:11eight to 10 to 12 great teams, you're going to be fine as a league.
09:15Because no one that I know has seen an actual Brooklyn Nets game this past season to know
09:21if they even existed.
09:22He actually makes a great point, Solana, which is you could have relegation, but it's still
09:27an NBA league.
09:30And so, hey, you want the Lakers or the Spurs to come visit your arena next season?
09:37Well, you better be in the top 20.
09:40And if you're not, you're going to get constant visits from Utah and Brooklyn.
09:44And good luck selling tickets for that, and good luck selling advertising for that, and
09:49so on.
09:49It actually happens to be a pretty inspired idea.
09:52And since you brought up Leeds, Ira, I hope you guys are enjoying that 14th, 15th spot
09:56as our Cherries fighting for a Champions League spot up at the table.
10:01Yeah, we're big Bournemouth guys.
10:02Yeah.
10:02You know what?
10:03You avoid relegation after playing in the championship all those years.
10:07You enjoy every moment.
10:08The one moment I'm waiting for, and I think Solana, you agree, is not going to happen now,
10:12is I don't see Tottenham going down.
10:15But can you imagine a team in an 86,000-seat stadium built to host the Jacksonville Jaguars
10:22twice a year, hosting teams that are playing in 10,000-seat stadiums?
10:26That's the thing.
10:28There is so much at stake in relegation at soccer and in the NBA.
10:32The Brooklyn Nets still share the television money, still get a draft choice, still get
10:36all these great teams visiting them.
10:37That's the whole thing.
10:38They'll never do it.
10:39U.S. sports is built on playoffs.
10:41The difference is, if you have relegation, as you know, Solana, you don't have playoffs.
10:47Well, like Hawks said, that's where all the money is, so you can't undo that also.
10:50It's just a different approach.
10:52So, yeah, you'll have craptastic teams coming to your arena twice a year.
10:56Ira, since we're talking about tanking in the draft, what did you make of Pat Riley's
11:01comments regarding they're not changing their strategy moving forward?
11:07He said he's not stepping down.
11:08But that they're not going to tank flat out, that they're aligned in that messaging and
11:13in that philosophy moving forward.
11:16I know that the Heat will be active trying to add some players, as Riles mentioned.
11:21But what do you make of Miami just continuing to refuse to go down that route as so many
11:28teams have?
11:30Well, first of all, they can't.
11:32They owe the Charlotte Hornets either a protected first-round pick in 2027 or unprotected in 2028.
11:38When you tank, you say, in this three- or four-year block, we're going to be terrible.
11:43Look at what the Spurs are now, and they're fantastic.
11:45You have Guenbanyana.
11:46You have Stefan Kassel.
11:47Now you have Harper, who's coming on in the playoffs.
11:50Why?
11:50And they have so much talent that Jeremy Sohan is now with the Knicks instead.
11:55You've got to be bad consistently.
11:57Once the Terry Rozier trade happened, they said they're living in the moment.
12:00You can't tank, because if you were awful this coming year and you keep your pick in
12:0427, well, then what happens in 28, you have an unprotected pick that goes out instead to
12:10the Hornets.
12:10So you can't.
12:11So it's almost like the Heat put themselves in a position where Pat Riley has to say that
12:16because they have no other choice, I know it's the terrible cliche, but Solana, like
12:21you said, is just in their DNA.
12:22They just refuse to tank.
12:24They refuse to go down.
12:25It almost reminds me of what the Panthers did at the end of the season, and they could
12:29have improved their lottery pick.
12:30But like Kachuk and the other players said, we don't want to start a feeling of losing
12:34with players on our roster where they find that acceptable.
12:37So did the Panthers move up in their lottery?
12:39No, they moved down the spot, but they played the close of their season with pride, and I
12:45do still think there is something to be said for that.
12:48The Giannis thing seems like it may come to a conclusion sooner rather than later based
12:56on the comments yesterday.
12:58So what do you think the chances are that Giannis ends up in a Heat uniform?
13:02Is the offer any different than it was at the trade deadline this past season?
13:09Like where do we stand with that?
13:11It has to be different because you can't throw in Terry Rozier's salary.
13:15You can't throw in Norman Powell's salary.
13:17He's an impending free agent.
13:18You might not be able to throw in Andrew Wiggins' salary because he can opt out and become
13:22a free agent.
13:24So the base trade in February was still going to be Tyler Hero and Kalil Ware.
13:29Now it has to be.
13:31Then you can throw in other pieces, young players that you want.
13:34You can throw in draft choices.
13:36Now at the draft, you can draft for the Bucs at number 13 or if you move up, and then
13:41you
13:41can still send them only two guaranteed first round picks that you'll hold.
13:45So it's the same pick package.
13:47I'm looking at the Houston Rockets with Alperen Chengun and maybe Reed Shepard.
13:50They can offer three first round picks.
13:52I think it's a better package.
13:54I know some people down here will think Kalil Ware is the better long-term prospect.
13:57We saw Boston now.
13:59I don't know if this is true, but if Jalen Brown is in there and you want to still win
14:03and their GM wants to keep his job, that's a pretty good guy to start with there also.
14:07So there is this quality being offered.
14:10What they said, and I think what Haslam said was very interesting, was, and we want to take
14:14care of Giannis.
14:15This is when Giannis has to go Lillard.
14:18This is when Giannis has to say, New York, Miami, give them a couple of choices so they
14:25don't get stung like Portland did with Dame, Miami, or Bucs, but give them a list of teams.
14:29And let's face it, it looks like the Knicks are getting past Philadelphia.
14:32Then they're going to wind up playing the winner of Detroit, Cleveland, not overwhelming.
14:36We easily could see the Knicks in the finals.
14:38Well, if you're the Knicks, do you put the big package together or do you go, we finally
14:43got where we wanted to go.
14:44We're good enough here and you stay there.
14:46So we have to see how the playoffs play out.
14:48The Heat has a good package, but the Heat will only work if Giannis makes it clear, like
14:53he did on that interview with Goran Dragic on that podcast, that, hey, yeah, Miami's a
14:57pretty good place.
14:58I'd like Miami.
14:58And the good thing is Giannis said he doesn't like LA.
15:01So when it comes to the Clippers, it comes to the Lakers, at least you could rule them
15:04out to a degree also.
15:06So yeah, I think there's a chance, but man, the one thing I love what Jimmy Haslam said
15:10was this, we need to get it done by the draft.
15:13Perfect.
15:14Because if you remember the summer of Lillard, the Heat waited and waited and waited and
15:18waited.
15:18And all of a sudden it was late September and October and there was no time for a plan B.
15:23At least this summer the Heat could have a plan B.
15:25Which brings it back to the thing we spoke about at the top, and Solana, I'll throw this
15:28at you.
15:31If the Heat do land a top four pick, Solana, would you prefer to rebuild with a potential
15:36generational player, like the kid from BYU, like Peterson, like Boozer, or would you throw
15:42that in also?
15:43Because I guarantee any team that winds up as a first four pick of the lottery, the Bucs
15:49are going to call them.
15:50And they're going to see what they can do.
15:51And they're going to wind up asking.
15:54Yeah, I wouldn't.
15:55I wouldn't give up.
15:56If I had AJ DeBansa in my lap, Ira, with the number one overall pick, I'm not giving
16:01that up because I believe he's going to be a generational talent.
16:04But I also know that Pat Riley thinks differently.
16:07And he was adamant about it the other day where he said, yeah, I mean, I like guys who have
16:14been there before and can go winning.
16:16Like, Ira, the last time you were on with us, you mentioned you like the fit with Kawhi
16:21next to Bam.
16:22And I understood your rationale, which was a closer, somebody who could, you know, shoot
16:27the ball, obviously late in the game.
16:29But I asked Pat Riley about how much recent injury and availability recently will factor
16:38into his determination of what player they should go after potentially in a trade.
16:42He said that'll be number one.
16:44Is there any thought in your head that maybe Giannis, Kawhi, John Morant, the three guys
16:52we're all kind of paying attention to aren't exactly what this heat front office wants to
16:57do right now because of their unavailability recently?
17:01I would say I would agree with Pat, but if it's presented for the right cost, again, we're
17:08talking about, what, 33-game Tyler Hero?
17:11So it's not like we're talking about our shows-up-everyday guy.
17:14If you were talking about Bam, I would say yes.
17:16I would not offer Bam.
17:18But you know what?
17:18Tyler is a sometimes guy also.
17:21And by fact, I'll put it back another way.
17:23Kevin Durant appeared in 78 regular season games.
17:26I don't care.
17:27The guy is 49 years old, exaggerating there a little bit, but he's just a guy that I think
17:32at a certain time you age out.
17:34So I still would, look, he'd have had mid-30s luck, early-30s luck.
17:38Shaquille O'Neal, NBA Finals Championship.
17:40Jimmy Buckler, in his 30s, they got him two NBA Finals.
17:44I would still deal more with that age range than dealing with someone like a Kevin Durant
17:48who shows up every day.
17:51You know what?
17:51I do think these are desperate times for desperate measures, especially if it's Giannis.
17:57Even if it's Kawhi, yeah, I'd make the move.
17:59I think that he'd have desperately been searching for that kind of player.
18:02Yeah, I'd make the move for Giannis if I could.
18:05If you add Giannis to Bam, you're going to remove Tyler, obviously.
18:08You're going to remove Kalil Ware.
18:10And you're going to remove future picks.
18:12So you're really going all in.
18:14You add Giannis to Bam next season, in the East, the Heat do what?
18:20You can finish top four, which is the puncher's chance you want.
18:24And again, the one thing I'll give the Heat credit for, when they get their core, they
18:30find a way.
18:31Remember with Dwayne and Shaq, they had nothing.
18:33And then all of a sudden, that monstrous off-season trade for Posey, for Antoine Walker, for Jason
18:38Williams, boom, NBA Championship follows.
18:41Remember this start of the Big Three era?
18:43There was nothing in support.
18:45All of a sudden, Birdman shows up.
18:46Ray Allen shows up.
18:47Shane Battier shows up.
18:49Give Pat Riley and Andy Ellisberg and Adam Simon a core.
18:52They will round it out, whether it's the Struces and the Vincents that got the Heat to the
18:56NBA Finals, whether it's the players in 2020.
18:58They have shown, if you give them the main pieces, they'll find the other components.
19:05I still trust those guys in that situation.
19:07You may say, hey, they don't know about the lottery.
19:09They're not figuring out the modern way of doing things.
19:11Fine.
19:11But if the Heat start with Giannis Bam or Kawhi Bam or something like that, I still think
19:17these guys could figure that out.
19:19How are the Windermans celebrating Ira's birthday tonight?
19:25A little sauteed shrimp and scallops at home.
19:28A little family cooking, keeping it simple.
19:30You know what?
19:31Nothing over the top.
19:32You know, I always get screwed because people with birthdays like mine wind up right near
19:36Mother's Day.
19:38So, like, you know, your day comes, okay, goodbye.
19:40Now it's literally on to the next thing.
19:43So, Sherry Windermans, I got a feeling will be much better taken care of than Ira Windermans.
19:47But, hey, isn't that what married life is all about?
19:50You'll learn some of that.
19:50Cake with a candle?
19:52I don't usually.
19:54I know you talk about this.
19:55Probably the Carvel ice cream cake has been a staple in the house because the little crunchy
19:59things that I know you lambast against.
20:02To me, still, that's the ultimate.
20:04I know it's not a cake and it's just ice cream, but them little crunchy things in there can't
20:08go wrong.
20:09Man, I love Ira.
20:11Man, I didn't think I could love Ira anymore, but man, do I love Ira after that.
20:17I'll meet you halfway.
20:18I agree about colored sprinkles are nothing more than a bunch of wax put on your ice cream
20:23cone.
20:23I'll meet you there.
20:24But chocolate crunchies are actually cake.
20:27Yeah.
20:28But ice cream isn't cake.
20:32Who cares what form it is?
20:34It slices nicely.
20:36Because people call it a cake.
20:37The only question is.
20:38They eat it with a fork.
20:40You're supposed to bite it.
20:41You're not supposed to bite ice cream.
20:43You're supposed to lick ice cream.
20:44It's a mess.
20:46As it's melting, is it a bowl or is it a plate?
20:48That's another call there.
20:50We'll have to deal with that.
20:51Follow Ira Windermans on social media, on Twitter, at Ira Heatbeat, and read his work
20:57in the Sun Sentinel.
20:58Make sure you have the Sun Sentinel app.
21:01Subscribe to the Sun Sentinel so that you can access his stories as the NBA lottery is
21:07Sunday.
21:07And who knows when Giannis news will break at some point between then and the draft.
21:13So we will keep updating everyone with, hopefully, frequent appearances by Ira Windermans from
21:21the Sun Sentinel on this station.
21:22Happy birthday, Ira.
21:25Thank you, and hopefully next time there's not the kind of lag I'm having right now,
21:28because this literally looked like one of those CNN interviews where the guy is standing
21:31out there in Israel with bombs going over his head, and you're just staring at the screen
21:36going, okay, he's done now.
21:37So next time, we'll try to get rid of the lag.
21:39I think it'll be a lot smoother.
21:40But guys, I'd love to talk.
21:41There were dropouts.
21:42But no lag.
21:44You're noticing lag.
21:45We noticed dropouts.
21:46But it was still tight.
21:48It was still succinct and tight.
21:50Well, and just to make you happy, I really got to run because my cake might melt.
21:55Well, I got a text from Mike Mayo just now, formerly of the Sun Sentinel, now of the unctuous
22:01Let's Eat South Florida Facebook page.
22:04Didn't peg Ira for a Carvel slash Fudgy the Whale guy?
22:08I bet he's had Fudgy the Whale and Cookie Puss all growing up in the New York area.
22:14He had Cookie Puss go way back.
22:15And if I told Jake about Cookie Puss, he'd go, what the hell is wrong with you?
22:18Another story for another day.
22:20We'll see you, Ira.
22:21Send my regards to Crowder.
22:23Tell him that he's not banned from the Winterman show.
22:25I will let him know.
22:26There you go.
22:27Ira Winterman from the Sun Sentinel.
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