- 3 months ago
Miami Heat beat writer for the Sun Sentinel Ira Winderman breaks down the blockbuster trade between the Heat and Bucks which lands Giannis Antetokounmpo in a Miami Heat jersey.
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00:00He got Giannis Antetokounmpo. Now we go to Ira Winderman. Ira, appreciate the time. How are you?
00:06I'm tired, sleepless. You know, when I had a text Solana at like two in the morning asking him
00:13what time, I realized this was going to be a quick turnaround today. But you know what? At least
00:17worth it. I'll say that. So when the news comes out and now you've had some time to digest it,
00:23your biggest takeaway from the heat acquiring Giannis Antetokounmpo is what?
00:27What is this is let's get this straight because I'm confused. So maybe you guys can help me out.
00:33The heat did not have enough. Everyone said the Miami heat don't have enough. They're a team that's
00:38lacking. And then they make this deal and some heat fans are saying they gave up too much.
00:43And I'm like, wait, which is it? You didn't have enough to compete or you had the resources and
00:48gave them away. So I think heat nation needs to take a step back and realize when you're trying
00:53to get a top five NBA player, you go all in. We saw the example with Boston. They apparently pulled
00:59back after a while and said, we're fine. If I were to sit here with you today and say,
01:05the reason the heat did not get Giannis Antetokounmpo is because they were unwilling to give up
01:10Casper as yak and Jonas. What do you think the outcry would be?
01:15Solano would be dead because he would be furious.
01:20I'd be hot too, Ira.
01:23I mean, and so look, you got to give everyone their flowers here. Is it a risk? Hell yeah,
01:29it's a risk, but you win with risk. You win when you're a New York Knicks team giving a huge
01:33contract to Jalen Brunson that people said years ago, that's a terrible contract. No, it wasn't.
01:38You're a risk when you take on Carl Anthony Towns after his struggles in Minnesota. No,
01:44it wasn't a risk. You have to go big in the NBA. But look, Boston did it when they traded
01:50Garnett
01:51and Pierce. They got the picks for Jayla Brown and Jason Tatum. If you don't go big in the NBA
01:56to
01:56use a little cliche, you really do go home. And Ira, is there, is there, there are more to this
02:02Norman Powell move Wiggins move, maybe a Bobby Portis move. Is there, is there more to this that
02:07we're waiting for before that July deadline? Yeah. You know, it's interesting because these
02:12trades always have tentacles because you don't have, you can't complete the trade until July 6th,
02:18the next cap calendar year. You can grow it out. You can move other parts. And I think the two
02:23team
02:23trade could be a five, six, seven team trade because everyone's going to jump in there. I mean,
02:28the Julius Randall trade could be part of this trade, the way it's worked out. So there will be
02:32more. The Heat needs to clear more cap space to achieve their goals. Right now,
02:37they have about $16 million under their hard cap, maybe 18. But $10 million of that is just on
02:43minimum salary players just to get to the required 14 players. So yes, you can fit Andrew Wiggins in
02:49there, but Norm Powell ain't coming back for something that minimum. To me, if you're asking
02:53for the next name in play, I think it would be Nikoli Ovich and his $14 to $16 million salary.
03:00You clear that out. You can bring Powell back. You can bring Wiggins back. You'd have a tax level
03:06mid-level. Maybe you can go for Tim Hardaway Jr. You can round this out fine. The Heat are not
03:12done
03:12for this simple reason, guys. They can't be done. Ira, what's the timeline look like for Giannis
03:20Antetokounmpo? Because you trade this much to go get him. Extension has to be at the very least,
03:28you know, under the table handshake guarantee from the lane of each perspective.
03:32Absolutely. Without question. And I believe that would be eligible in January. And part two
03:38is, and I learned a two-part question from you and the Eric Spolster press conferences,
03:43so you can't be upset about it. Part two, Ira, is a lot of Heat fans are talking about the
03:48draft
03:49capital you've given up and what happens in 2030, 31, 32, 33 if Giannis is no longer elite. But I
03:56think
03:56what a lot of people are missing is while you have Giannis, you have three of your four first-round
04:00picks before you get to the part where the Bucs have the draft capital. How important will that
04:06be for Miami to start filling out the roster over the next couple of years?
04:10It would not shock me if they could trade those picks and they'll trade them all. So they are
04:13living in the moment because that's who they are. Look, Pat Riley, the last four years used first
04:17rounders on Hawkins, on Jovich, on Khalil Ware, on Yakutronis, and it worked out perfectly. They
04:23became the trade elements. You know, to a degree, this reminds me, I mentioned this in the show last
04:28week of Mike Ditka in New Orleans trading his entire draft for Ricky Williams. Remember that.
04:33Remember the Herschel Walker trade with Minnesota, trading entire drafts. It's a huge risk, but you
04:37take those risks in basketball for this reason. In football, you have 22 starters plus special teams.
04:43In basketball, you have five guys on the court. You give me five good players, I'll round out my team
04:49anyway. So draft picks, schmaff picks, you'll be fine. You'll find players after the draft. You'll get
04:54your Gabe Vincents, you'll get your Max Struces. Everyone has those teams. I'll give you a perfect
04:58example. The Heat need shooting. They can't afford a shooter. Look at Landry Schammett with the Knicks
05:03last year. Here's a guy who comes non-guaranteed at the minimum salary, and all of a sudden in the
05:08finals, he's the guy. You find players, you can make it work. So to me, that's not a concern. As
05:13far
05:13as the end of the cup of extension, that's done. His side made clear apparently only he was going to
05:19sign
05:19with Celtics, the Timberwolves or the Heat, the only teams he was going to extend with.
05:23It's the window open six months after he signs. Now, it could be as early as July 6th, which would
05:29be January 6th. But if the Heat are dicking around a little, they don't really matter if it's
05:34January 10th, January 20th. He's going to get his deal that when he's 35 years old, he's going to be
05:40making $71 million and the Heat are living in the moment and Pat Riley's successor will have to deal
05:46with it. But you know what, guys? Forgotten somewhat in this equation is this. Bam Adebayo
05:52starting his extension this coming season. You can't be paying a guy $50 million in a wait for
05:58it season, in a reset season. When they committed to that Bam extension at that $50 million plus
06:04average, they said we have to be a meaningful team. Honestly, I think if they didn't get Giannis,
06:09they would have had to think about trading Bam because you just can't sit back on that kind of
06:14minding him wait. And here's the other thing, Ira. And this is why you give up the draft picks
06:18and anyone complaining about it, as Ira Winderman's here with us, you tell them to go shove the draft
06:22picks up their keister, is just because if they didn't get Giannis, what were they doing? Like
06:28Durant, Kawhi, that doesn't excite me. You know, John Morant, there's a ton of issues off the court.
06:33They had to get this deal done and they were desperate. And everyone knew that. And so Boston
06:39played them and the Bucs played them. Look, if you were to be honest and get the heat on the
06:43eye detector and go, were you played? They go, yeah. And here's the difference.
06:47They go to the Celtics and they go about Hugo Gonzalez. And they're like, hmm. And what about
06:51two more first round picks? And then I'm like, yeah, we don't need this. Honestly, they could
06:55have asked for Bernie and the heat could have had to look for a new mascot at this point.
07:00They were getting everything they possibly could. So, you know, that, that's look, the heat were
07:06desperate. It's a lot of, you know, that we can't deny that we've sat through four of these
07:10play-in seasons. First time out of the playoffs last year. And also look at the landscape now,
07:15how it's changed in South Florida, Miami Hurricanes are the national championship football
07:20game. The Panthers, I think they added another Kachuk brother today. I mean, what they have
07:26Barkoff coming back. They're probably Stanley Cup favorites right now. The Dolphins adding
07:30juice with a new GM and a new coach and a new potential franchise quarterback. You get left
07:36behind real quick in a market if you're not proactive. Let's get even crazier. And I saw
07:43this was speculated today that you can't rule out a return of LeBron James with the full mid-level
07:49exception. I don't think it's likely. How much of a chance do you see maybe LeBron coming back to
07:55South Beach? The only way the heat would have the full middle level exception is if both Andrew
08:00Wiggins and Norman Powell, Norman Powell, both don't come back. They're going to play with the taxpayer
08:04mid-level exception, about $6, $7 million. LeBron ain't going from 50. First of all, he's not going
08:09from 50 to 17, let alone to lower than that. And I know this might sound blasphemous, but if I
08:15had
08:15a choice of Norman Powell and Andrew Wiggins or LeBron James, I'm probably taking Wiggins and taking
08:21Powell. It would have been nice. I still think if LeBron wants the romanticism at the finish,
08:27it has to be Cleveland. And if he's going to take a pay cut, it has to be Cleveland. And
08:32it would be,
08:33no matter what happens, it would be the storybook ending. Miami, you know, the gift was ours to
08:38borrow, but he was never, you know, our own, like a Dan Marino or an Alonzo Mourning or a Roberto
08:45Luongo down here. And Ira, something we've told, this has been years that Solana and me argue about.
08:52Does LeBron, Pat Riley, and Spole get along? Because we know the story where he wanted to get rid of
08:58Spole year one. And then he had Riley sit outside while he played a soccer video game or something
09:04in Vegas. Do they, do they get along? Wouldn't LeBron even recognize if the Heat ever called him?
09:11Oh yeah. I think, you know, in the old time, healed all wounds. Remember the way Shaquille O'Neal
09:16left town here? He burned every bridge here. I mean, he was wrestling guys naked in the locker room
09:21because he just didn't care. And he got, and he worked his way out. And then all of a sudden,
09:25he's a pitchman for Mickey Harris' Carnival Cruise Lines and the Heat retire his jersey. Look,
09:31it's going to happen with LeBron. And you know what? It's going to happen with Jimmy Butler.
09:35That's the beautiful thing. You take a little bit of time away. You step back in. All is forgotten.
09:40LeBron understands and appreciates the Heat as a winning culture. Is he passive aggressive? Maybe
09:46as passive aggressive as any athlete we've seen, but that's part of the game now also, Channing.
09:51Okay. Ira, you mentioned Shaquille O'Neal. You mentioned LeBron James. When you put it into
09:56the context of the types of players, the level of players that Pat Riley has brought here and to tie
10:03it into, they were desperate. How much of this do you think was Pat Riley saying, I need my one
10:10last
10:10hurrah? I need my one last go at it because you said, you know, his successor in five or six
10:17years will
10:17have to deal with the ramifications of lack of capital. I'm not asking you how much longer he
10:23has because he refused to answer that at the press conference. But what was this necessary more so
10:28because Pat needed one more opportunity to go get a contender while he was still part of the brass here
10:35in Miami? And I could turn that around simply because think about what we otherwise would be
10:39talking about today. If Giannis went to Boston, we would be talking about losing Damian Lillard,
10:45losing Kevin Durant four times, losing James Harden, losing Kyrie Irving, losing all the players
10:51they've lost over the years. And there's not another superstar now. Kawhi would not be in that
10:55same bucket. He's just a different sort of cat. John Morant would not be in that bucket. So
11:00this really was last chance corral for Pat Riley. And I think, hell, I think it meant a lot to
11:06him.
11:06Now look, is some of this stuff justified that he worked hard to get deals? If Joe Cronin didn't want
11:11to listen to them or give in to Damian Lillard, there's only so much you can do. Kevin Durant
11:16always had a mind of his own. So that was going to be tougher. But yeah, the narrative today,
11:21the day after the trade, if he went to Boston, man, it would have been his Pat Walsh, his Pat
11:25retiring, what did the Arisons do? I don't want to say it saved a franchise, but I think it provided
11:31a much needed reset because there are only two things that can sour heat fans more than this,
11:38the Celtics or the Knicks winning a championship. Well, one of them just happened. So if you want
11:44to be all the way down there, it's bad enough with the damn Celtics fans here and that with your
11:48New
11:48York fans down here, but it would be worse if one team's coming off a championship, they're buying
11:53out all the tickets here and the heater in the dumpster. So yeah, no, right now it's game on.
11:58And honestly, I'm not going to say the heater favorites in the East. And a matter of fact,
12:02my favorite is probably a team you might not mention. I think the Pacers are right back up there
12:06with Tyrese Halliburton coming back and Vika Zubat's coming back there. But I would, I would
12:11say this, there's not a team in the East that scares me, which I could not say a day ago.
12:18Ira Winderbin here with us, you know, I'm a Knicks fan and you know, I look at it in this
12:23way.
12:23Now the heat objectively with Giannis and Bam and not knowing what the rest of the roster is,
12:28they're out of the playing tournament with those two, they should win a first round series. And then
12:32these moves over the next few weeks will ultimately determine if they could get to a conference
12:37finals, if they could get to an NBA finals. Well, let's look how they rounded out this roster
12:41after the Shaquille O'Neal trade. They were a season sort of in the wilderness. Then they made
12:45that huge trades with Memphis. They bring in Gary Payton. They bring in Jason Williams. They bring
12:49in Antoine Walker. They bring in James Posey. Boom, championship. First big three year when LeBron
12:55couldn't guard JJ Barea and wouldn't take the ball in the post. And it was either or with Dwayne.
13:01Then all of a sudden in the following years, Shane Battier, they had Mike Miller at the start,
13:06but then Ray Allen, Chris Birdman Anderson, they found the pieces. I fully trust this same front
13:12office that found those pieces to do it again. Again, it could be something as simple as a Tim
13:16Hardaway Jr. It could be a veteran who realizes in August, wait, I'm only getting the minimum.
13:22Hmm. Do I want to spend it up in Milwaukee or do I want to spend it in the tax
13:27-free sun of South
13:28Florida? Players will come here just like Gary Payton came at the end of his career at the last
13:34moment. I was going to say Shane Battier, when he came, Ray Allen came. They were coming to play
13:41with the big three, right? And for less money, you want to play for something. So I think what's
13:46going to happen here, guys, is this. There might be some guys who sit back and say, I want to
13:50see how
13:50this works out. I want to see if Bam and Giannis really work. And then when they say, wait a
13:55minute,
13:55these two guys are going to play all the defense so I can take care of offense. When my guy
14:00beats me
14:01off the dribble, these two guys are going to be there to clean things up. I'm not saying it's
14:05Victor Wimbayana squared, but man, if I got two backstops and I'm a bad defender and have those
14:10guys behind me, there's a lot worse places I can be. All of a sudden, some of the worst defenders
14:15in
14:16the league, you won't even notice anymore. Hell, I know this sounds terrible. Tyler Hero would have
14:21fit in now. I'm glad you bring that up, Ira, because there's a part of me that feels happy
14:27for Tyler Hero. He doesn't have to go through the circus every offseason of being involved in trade
14:32rumors anymore. And I mean, you mentioned this transaction may not be done yet until July 6th,
14:39so who knows where he ends up. But how will Tyler Hero's tenure in Miami be remembered? Because
14:46on the way out, I think there's a bit more animosity towards Tyler because of how last season played
14:52out. But the reality is, his rookie season, I mean, he had 36 points in an Eastern Conference
14:57finals game, and he was an all-star here as well. I mean, again, you know, I wrote this in
15:03my Sunday
15:03column, but he deserves his flowers. First year, he was a rookie sensation in those bubbled finals and
15:10those bubbled playoffs. He had almost single-handedly beat Boston in one game, goes on to win six men of
15:14the year, goes on to lead the Heat in scoring one season, has been consistent when healthy. Health
15:21was an issue. But I think he always gets sold short for the, well, he could score, but he can't
15:26defend. And there's so many other guys in that bucket. God bless Donovan Mitchell, but he's six
15:31foot, maybe nothing. He's no great defender, and he doesn't have to put up with that criticism.
15:36Instead, Tyler gets thrown into that bucket. He's a big-time NBA-level scorer. And I got to tell you,
15:42if he does wind up going to a team like the Detroit Pistons, he will have a great season.
15:47They will have a great season. And we'll be sitting here saying, man, they never should have let Tyler
15:52go. He can bounce back big time. One last one for me, Ira Winderman here with us. The minute this
15:58trade happened and then everyone got up and you saw, okay, where did the Heat pivot from here? I feel
16:03like every aggregator and then some had, this means Norman Powell's done with the Heat. How about his future
16:09in Miami? Again, if they create the space, it's basically either Norman Powell's future is done
16:15or Nikola Jovic's future is done. And again, they did that extension before last season. It looked
16:20like a bargain contract. Times change, but there's enough shooters out there. Norm at the second half
16:26of last season was a bad player. We know he was hurting, but the last two seasons with Norm here
16:31and
16:32then with the Clippers, he was a great first half of the season player. And then you saw the fade
16:36with
16:36the Clippers as well. I don't think the Heat would be, I don't mean this to be hurtful,
16:41crestfallen if they lose Norman Powell. I think the two-way play of Andrew Wiggins is different,
16:46whether it's a Klay Thompson, whether it's a Tim Hardaway Jr. You can find shooters and spacers in
16:51this league. And I think the Heat will. And I have one more for Ira because y'all were arguing
16:57with me
16:57earlier in the show. Ira, you wake up at 3 a.m. to go to the bathroom. Do you check
17:02your phone?
17:03I think it's crazy to check your phone at 3 a.m. I don't. And I got to tell you,
17:08it's even because of what happened last night, because then you pop up and you realize you have
17:11to do something. So especially in my line of work, there is no story I could post at 3 a
17:16.m. local
17:17time that's going to generate traffic or generate a buzz. So I actually go out of my way to make
17:21sure
17:22I don't notice stuff for the rare five hours of sleep I get some nights. It's just too much. And
17:28beyond that, I have a wife who tells me all the time, he's still on that damn phone.
17:31So the last thing I need is her turning over and me scrolling through Instagram.
17:36Yeah, old people. Old people. That's what I chalk it up. Crowder and, you know, you guys just old
17:42people. Listen, me and Ira, both 28. Leave us alone. And besides, if I go to my phone, all I'm
17:47getting is Instagrams from Hockman in Switzerland. I don't need that either at 3 in the morning.
17:52Avocado toast. Ira, how weird is tonight going to be on the way out here? Because I'm going to be
17:58at
17:58the draft party live tonight broadcasting. And I don't know what to expect. The heater going to
18:03select a pick at 13 and that player is going to come take a picture in a heat hat. He's
18:10going to
18:10be introduced as a Miami heat player. Are we going to interview? Like, are we interviewing this player?
18:15Oh, no. I'm really surprised. I know the logistically it's hard to cancel the draft party. I'm not even
18:20sure I'm going to be there because there's no reason for me to be there. They don't have the assets
18:25to trade into another first round pick. But the idiocy of the guy going up, shaking at him.
18:29And think about this. This is the guy's play or whatever player it is. It's his one bite at the
18:34moment, just like at the NFL draft. And they're going to sully it because there'll be this big
18:39Miami heat background. He'll put on his Miami heat cap. He'll never have his moment when he's part of
18:44the Milwaukee Bucks reset. But when they do the interview on site and it's just all neutral reporters,
18:50the first thing they're going to ask him is, well, we know you're going to Milwaukee.
18:53Does his agent let him talk? I mean, I think the heat draft party, they'll announce the heat
18:57draft pick and they'll just go on from there because even he, even the people selling heat
19:01season tickets tonight at the arena can't say, come see Giannis Antetokounmpo. They could just
19:07talk about, we are going to have Greek food night this season. So I'm going to the draft tonight
19:12and this happens every year. A guy gets drafted. He's not going to ever play for that team,
19:17but he's wearing the hat and you have these dopey reporters who don't follow things. And they're
19:22like, Oh, what is it going to mean to go play with Giannis? What is it going to go mean
19:26to go get coached by Eric Spolstra? It drives me nuts. And every year I fight back yelling and
19:31just being mean to people. No, they, they put the, they put these kids in really bad positions.
19:35It's not cool. I understand there's a different cap calendar, but we all know what's at play here.
19:40We all know that before it goes up there, Jay Billis is going to go, well, this pick belongs
19:43to the Milwaukee Bucks. So what does Adam Silver have to say? He's going to the Miami heat. Now
19:48can trades fall apart? Can something happen? Yes, you could in the interim, but man,
19:52these kids get one moment. They get their one shining moment in the draft and it comes in the
19:57wrong head. He's Ira Renderman. He joins us of course, of the Toyota of Hollywood hotline shop
20:02over 2000 Toyotas on sale at one location Toyota of Hollywood on 441 between Hollywood and Sheridan
20:06Toyota of Hollywood.com. Ira, thank you. Got to get back to smashing plates on the floor.
20:12Thank you guys. There you go. Ira Renderman here with us.
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