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Former Washington OC Scott Turner joins GP to break down what the Commanders can expect from their offensive draftees this year!
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00:00Go to the Rude Guest Hotline. Welcome onto the program, Scott Turner, former OC and play caller here in D
00:04.C.,
00:04among other stops as a high-ranking offensive coach in the league.
00:08Just last year was with the Jets.
00:10Scott, it's good to talk to you again. It's Grant. How are you?
00:13Doing well, Grant. How are you doing?
00:14Very well. Appreciate a couple of minutes.
00:16Curious first, so NFL Draft comes and goes.
00:20As a coordinator, what's that night like for you?
00:23Where do you sit?
00:25We've seen the War Room a million times where they've got the two long tables
00:29and then all the important decision-makers at the front.
00:31Where are the coordinators at?
00:33How often are you asked questions of or talked to?
00:35How much say might you get in what happens?
00:40We've already had a lot of discussions leading into the draft,
00:43so kind of the work is done.
00:47Normally, as the coordinator, I would just be in my office kind of watching the draft,
00:51maybe working on some other things.
00:52Always a good food spread at the facility during the draft, so probably eating too much.
00:58And then if they needed me or if we were going to pick an offensive player,
01:01I would go into the War Room.
01:03Or if it was getting close to our pick and they wanted to ask an opinion,
01:07they would call you in the War Room or maybe the head coach or general manager
01:11would come into my office and just ask a couple of questions
01:14if I still felt the same way about these certain guys
01:17or give a couple of guys what my opinion was.
01:20But for the most part, I would like to kind of stay out of there
01:25and just give you time to get some more.
01:27As you know, the draft is a long process and you're following it in your office.
01:32But no, I'd stay out of the War Room.
01:33So I've heard some stories over the years.
01:36Last year, Cliff Kingsbury was here,
01:38and he basically wrote a note and left it on the desk of Adam Peters a la draft day
01:43where he asked him, Josh Connerly, like, get me the tackle from Oregon.
01:48And they wouldn't have told us that story after the draft
01:50if they hadn't drafted Connerly, but they did.
01:53And then they mentioned that story.
01:55I thought about hearing one time that it didn't work out,
01:59but when the Redskins at the time drafted Josh Doxson out of Texas Christian,
02:05they were having this debate where McLuhan's running point,
02:07I think it was at the time.
02:09And they were asking the defensive coordinator about,
02:12I think it was A'shaun Robinson maybe.
02:14And they're like, will he be on the field on third down?
02:16And he's like, no.
02:17And then they said to McVay, is Doxson going to be on the field
02:20in week one on third down?
02:21He's like, you betcha.
02:22And they took him.
02:23So, like, in that way, like, how does that work with the coordinator?
02:26And were you ever willing to go up to the GM or something and say,
02:29hey, I really, really want this guy.
02:30Get me this guy.
02:31Yeah, for sure.
02:32And honestly, like, I always tried to make sure that how I felt about a certain player
02:38was conveyed in our meetings and then also just through conversations leading up to the draft.
02:45Now, if I, you know, if someone was still there and, you know,
02:48especially as you get later in the draft and you really felt strongly about them
02:52and you tried to make a push for it, then, yeah, absolutely.
02:59I would go to the GM or he would maybe ask his opinion.
03:03But a lot of times, like I said, you know, you already kind of set the draft order,
03:07especially in those early rounds.
03:10And, you know, like I said, the work is kind of done at that point,
03:13just a matter of how these players are going to come off the board.
03:16So we had Scott look at some of the sizzle reels and some of the production
03:19of some of the offensive players in this draft class for the commanders for us
03:24to just get his initial thoughts on what he liked and what he sees,
03:27what he wants to see more of from some of these guys.
03:30So let's start with the wide receiver out of Clemson, Antonio Williams.
03:33They took him at number 71 overall.
03:36What did you think?
03:37You know, I think he's an interesting player.
03:39You know, pretty decent size.
03:41You know, that 5'11", 185, 187, something like that.
03:44He's still a pretty good-sized player.
03:45You know, he played a lot in the slot for Clemson, but he can play outside as well.
03:51There were some clips of that.
03:53Seems to be a really good player.
03:54It's the run-after-catch.
03:56He's also a punt returner.
03:58Normally those things go together pretty well.
04:01You know, you did see some contested catches,
04:03but he was more of the type of guy that would throw the quick screens to,
04:06the quick slants, type of catch-and-run type player.
04:10I think, you know, as he – but, you know, as far as, like, his skill set,
04:13the 40 time, like, his speed, everything looks good.
04:17And it's just a matter of, you know, evolving his route tree.
04:20The interesting thing to me, because I know in, you know,
04:23David Blau's offense and, you know, coming from the Lions game,
04:26there's a lot of option routes.
04:28You really want to run a lot of different option routes.
04:30So is he going to be able to do that?
04:32I'm sure when they evaluated him, they see him in that role,
04:35because those are the types of balls where, you know,
04:37the guy makes a good decision, quarterback throws him the ball,
04:40and then you can get some run-after-catch and get some first downs,
04:42whether it's on first, second down, or third.
04:45So I'm assuming that that's the role that they're looking at him to have,
04:50and it'll just be a matter of, you know, can he do that,
04:54and then how evolved can he get in the route tree,
04:57and then what's the idea for him?
04:58Do they see him as a slot or an outside player or kind of both?
05:02Because I think he has the ability to do some different things.
05:05And then they also – they hand him the ball as well,
05:07and even some throw a touchdown pass against North Carolina.
05:10So it seems like this is a guy that, you know, is a playmaker,
05:15that you want to get the ball in his hands,
05:16and then the defined details of running routes and the passing game,
05:21like that's – I think what – I'm not saying he can't do it.
05:24I'm just saying he's going to have to, you know, develop that, you know,
05:27to continue to grow in this league and be the player that I'm assuming
05:30they're anticipating is going to be when you pick him at 71.
05:34Former Washington OC and play caller Scott Turner.
05:36So I think most of our listeners know what an option route is.
05:39Pretty self-explanatory, right?
05:41How does it work, though, especially at the receiver position
05:44and on a given play?
05:46Like how many options do you have?
05:48Are you reading a defender and the quarterback's got to be on the same page
05:51as you?
05:51Like take us through that.
05:53No, everyone's terminology is different,
05:54but like what we had in our offense would be like if we had an option route
05:58and then we had a choice route.
05:59So an option route, the receiver had two options, if you will.
06:04He could either arc release and then turn in and hook up.
06:09Like if it's a zone defense, you fill a void in the zone,
06:13you turn around and hook up.
06:14And then if it was man and you're getting matched,
06:16then you can break out and run out.
06:18So those would be the two options on an option route.
06:21And then the other one we had would be a choice route.
06:24In a choice route, you have the third option.
06:26So the third option is the ability to break in.
06:29And when you call a choice route, that's really what you want the receiver to do
06:34is break in because that's where you can get the big catch and run.
06:37And then so if you get man defense and the guys head up to outside leverage,
06:43you want to cross his face, the quarterback can hit you, catch and run.
06:46If he's hard inside leverage, then you'll break out.
06:48And then, like I said, if everyone's dropping in zone,
06:51you can see the eyes on the quarterback.
06:53And now you're just going to find the whole turn in, hook up,
06:56and expect the ball for a completion.
06:57So if it's all based on the rules, like what you're getting from the defense,
07:02theoretically, the quarterback and the receiver,
07:04as long as they see everything the same way, should be on the same page.
07:07But I'd imagine that takes a lot of time on task.
07:11It does.
07:11And, like, you know, we would have certain guys like,
07:14all right, these are our option or choice route runners.
07:16And it's not something that you necessarily train your whole receiving core to do
07:21because you want the quarterback and the receiver to be on the same page.
07:25You know, the big coaching point to the quarterback
07:26is always just trust the route runner.
07:28You know what I mean?
07:28Because if he makes the right decision,
07:32then if he makes the right decision, then he should be open.
07:35Now, where you get into some issues with that is, like,
07:37if what we would have called, like, 11-hole defense or, like, man-free,
07:41where there's a hole player or, like, a linebacker
07:45that doesn't have man responsibility.
07:46He's just reading the quarterback's eyes.
07:48The defense is going to play with outside leverage in that case,
07:50and now you'll get a break-in by a receiver, but there's an extra defender.
07:55They're playing outside leverage because they know where their help is,
07:57and that's where the quarterback just has to read it,
07:59and then he progressed through in the offense.
08:01So, really, like, what we'd always say on choice routes and option routes is
08:05you should be throwing that player the ball unless they're doubled,
08:08and then if someone goes to double them, whether it's a man or zone,
08:12then now you work through your progression off of that.
08:15Scott Turner on Grant and Danny.
08:17So, one of the things when I watched him, he was not on my radar
08:20because I didn't think they were going to go slot guy there,
08:23and I thought, you know, one of the bigger, faster guys on the outside
08:25was kind of going to be the play.
08:27So, it just wasn't someone I'd studied a lot.
08:29But one of the things that I saw when I watched was, you know,
08:31two years ago, ultra-productive.
08:33I know he had some hammy issues last year, but just 55 catches for 600 yards,
08:37four touchdowns, two of them were against FCS,
08:40and he only had eight catches of 20 or more.
08:42And so, when I started asking people about that,
08:44a lot of smarter people than me that studied him said,
08:47this offense, it was gross.
08:48Or, you know, the quarterback play from Cade Klubnick was why.
08:52So, I wonder from your perspective,
08:53you've had to have studied a lot of guys like this
08:56where they might have been a really good player
08:57and they didn't get to show it.
08:59How do you bake that into the evaluation?
09:02I think just kind of what you said.
09:04Like, you've got to look at their whole body of work, you know,
09:07and he's been more productive in the past.
09:10And then sometimes, like, you look at, like, you give the initial stats
09:14and you may be a little underwhelmed.
09:16And like you're saying, a lot of the production came against FCS.
09:19But then you look at the tape and you're like,
09:22man, this guy was open.
09:23Like, they just couldn't give him the ball,
09:24whether, like, it was, especially from the receiver position,
09:27like, whether it's, like, a breakdown at pass protection,
09:29the quarterback misses a throw.
09:31You know what I mean?
09:31There's a lot of things that going into it.
09:33And so you just grade the player.
09:34And a lot of times, like, a positive play from the receiver
09:39might not result in production.
09:42And then, you know, you also got to, you know,
09:44you have a chance to evaluate that player.
09:47And this gets more into the interview process,
09:49which, you know, obviously I'm not a part of that.
09:51But, like, whenever a player would have that type of issue,
09:54like, for my person, it's like I'd ask him about it
09:56and, like, ask him why.
09:57And it gives you an opportunity to kind of evaluate the person, too.
10:01Like, how are they going to respond to your question?
10:03Like, are they going to blame their teammates?
10:05Are they going to blame their coaches?
10:06Are they going to take accountability?
10:07Because the film tells the truth.
10:09Like, if he's open and the guy's not getting him the ball,
10:12but then you want to see what he says.
10:14Like, well, coach, I was open.
10:15They just, they wouldn't give me the ball.
10:16Or, like, that's not necessarily the number one thing,
10:20you know, you want to hear from a player.
10:23So I think it's all, you know, it's all part of it.
10:27You know, I think you just got to do the full evaluation.
10:30Scott, you were hearing 22 call and play,
10:32so you had Brian Robinson as a rookie.
10:35You would have been a part of that draft process.
10:37I bring him up because Katron Allen,
10:40the pick in the sixth round, is a sledgehammer.
10:43I mean, this guy's 215 pounds.
10:45He's not fast, didn't run the 40.
10:46Nickname is Fat Man.
10:48But he's one of the most productive backs in Penn State history.
10:52First in yards, third in touchdowns.
10:54My preference is always the shiftier, more elusive,
10:58and a scat back who can catch passes.
11:00But it seems to me like coming out of Penn State,
11:04this is a guy who could be super productive
11:06in a role like a David Montgomery in this offense.
11:10Yeah, I've always kind of liked this player.
11:13I'm just, you know, obviously when you go to a big school like Penn State,
11:17some of those games are going to be on TV.
11:19Like, so I, you know, I've seen him over the years.
11:21Obviously, like, it kind of is what you talked about with the receiver.
11:25Like, last year, I mean, the two-headed monster between him
11:28and I believe Singleton is his name.
11:31I mean, that was a very productive backfield.
11:33Tyler Warren, like, they were really a good offense.
11:36And then, you know, kind of everything fell apart for him this past year.
11:41But you just see the vision.
11:42Like, this guy's a downhill, no-nonsense runner.
11:45He makes people tackle him.
11:46Um, the ball, you know, the ball goes where it's supposed to go within the run scheme.
11:52Um, you know, you're right.
11:54He's not going to necessarily catch the ball out of the backfield.
11:56But I don't think he's, like, he's not, like, he'll be fine on, like, checkdowns or those.
12:00You're not going to, like, split him out in the slot or anything like that.
12:03But, like, you know, on hard play, action, pass, everyone sinks.
12:06Like, he's going to catch the ball just fine.
12:09Like, he's not one that he doesn't seem to really necessarily fight it.
12:11He's just not, you know, the receiver type.
12:13Um, you know, I think, you know, when you talk about, you know, backs, I think it's good to have
12:18kind of an array of them.
12:20And I think that he fits in to the personnel.
12:22And I think what you're saying is probably true.
12:24Like, they probably see him as that David Montgomery role.
12:28And, um, but this is a guy that, you know, I think he's going to, number one, get what's there.
12:34But I think he's got ability to get more than that just because of, you know, he is a very
12:38decisive runner.
12:39Um, and, and like I said, like, he wears the defense down.
12:43Like, those are body blows of making them, making them play the run and making them bring, bring that big,
12:48big body to the ground.
12:50Well, to that point, 27% of his carries came against heavy boxes, which was number one in this draft
12:55class.
12:56And he still averaged 4.8 yards per carry.
12:58But what I loved about him, you talk about wearing a defense down, he was number one in America last
13:05year, 8.2 yards per attempt in the fourth quarter.
13:09So as the game went on and they started going, oh, I got to tackle this dude again.
13:13And that's got to be the intrigue with these backs.
13:15Danny and I laugh all the time because, you know, it's just not, like, it's one of those things where
13:21if I was a GM, I feel like all my backs would look the same.
13:23I would have a bunch of dudes that look like, um, I don't know, Reggie Bush or something like the
13:28Brian Robinson, like three and a half yard thing.
13:31They're not following, they're not growing on trees.
13:33You can't just get three Reggie Bushes on your team.
13:37Well, let me be clear.
13:38Okay.
13:38Because he was a top five pick.
13:40I would have like three, uh, Bucky Irvings or something like, no, I, I, I understand what you mean.
13:44I'm giving you a hard time.
13:45Yeah.
13:46And it's a, you make a good point, but here's, I guess what I'm getting at is what is the,
13:50like, why is it that in the league?
13:53You guys, like coaches, actual executives that know what they're talking about, that care about complimentary football.
13:59You, there's always a spot for Brian Robinson or like some Frank Gore dude who's going to average 3.3
14:05when I'm going, get me a guy who's electric.
14:09Like, as you said, there's, there's not enough Jameer Gibbs is to go around for sure.
14:13But I want someone who runs a 429 who I could draft in the seventh round or whatever, 431 who
14:19might not be able to play dead in a Western.
14:21Like, I'll try that out.
14:22Why does the big guy always have a role?
14:24I think it's the big, the big guy, but the big guy, he has to have the vision.
14:28Like he's got to have the vision and he's got to be decisive and he's got to play, he's got
14:32to play downhill.
14:33And that's just, it just applies pressure to the interior part of the defense.
14:37You make the defense play their blocks.
14:39You make them, you, you force them to make tackles.
14:42Um, I agree with you.
14:44Like you, you can look at like, um, you know, my, my track record.
14:48Like I've, I've always preferred, um, what you're talking about.
14:51Um, but I do think there is a place, whether it's, whether it's short yardage, um, you know,
14:56the goal line situations.
14:57I mean, I remember, I remember, you know, again, I'm not going to pretend like I don't
15:01hear the things you guys are talking about, but I remember in 2020, like you guys were
15:05not the biggest Peyton Barber fans.
15:06Um, because he had the low yards per carry, but like, I would always laugh.
15:11It's like, yeah, well, we, we only give him the ball when it's third and one or fourth
15:14of one, like he's not going to break a 50 yard or, and we knew what Peyton's, um, role
15:19was on our, on our team.
15:21Um, and that is actually kind of an extreme example of what we're talking about here,
15:25but like he got some big conversions up for us in, in, in big games.
15:28And, um, you know, the, I think the biggest thing is what I'm saying.
15:32Those, like those, those big backs, like they're not just, they just can't run in the
15:36back of the defense.
15:36Like they got to be able to have good ball placement, um, decisive runners, and then,
15:41uh, being able to finish and make people actually bring them to the ground.
15:45I should never let the first guy tackle him.
15:47So it's funny you, you mentioned that because yeah, if you're an end, one guy or in that
15:52role, you want that.
15:54Like to me, that's always been the, the B Rob way.
15:56Kate Sean Allen seems like he's way more capable because of the vision, some of the success
16:01that he had, but I've always thought like Danny and I were debating this yesterday.
16:04And my point is, I just think that in reality, it's almost like this fantasy football world
16:10where like, give me Devin, a chance, right?
16:12That style of back as an example, I think he was like a third round guy, but my point
16:16is it's more of a pain in the ass maybe to play Kate Sean Allen.
16:20Like if you're, if you're talking about 15, 16 carries or something like that.
16:25And I just feel like there is, it's the same as like, I hate, I would never run on second
16:30and 10.
16:30I could say that sitting in this chair is just a fat guy, but like occasionally you've
16:34got to worry about other things than that.
16:36You're going to be in third and nine.
16:37You see what I'm saying?
16:38Yeah.
16:38Yeah, absolutely.
16:40Yeah.
16:40No, for, for sure.
16:41And, and I think like, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
16:45I think that like you want, you want the defense to have to chase Jameer Gibbs all around the
16:51field.
16:51And then all of a sudden they got a freaking, you know, meet David, David Montgomery in
16:55the hole, you know, in a, you know, the, on first and 10 on a, on a downhill, on a
17:00downhill run, you know?
17:01And that's, I think that's what, what we're looking for, um, here with, uh, with Kate Ron
17:06Allen and, and it's, it's making the defense defend a lot of different things as opposed
17:11to just, you know, the state, the same type of player, you know, over and over again.
17:16Montgomery is such a good example because like the, I'll use fantasy community, whatever
17:21that means.
17:22But like the people that are live watching on Twitter, every time he gets a carry in
17:26Detroit are screaming, right?
17:28It's like Jameer Gibbs, the ball in it.
17:30And then you look up at the end of the game and the team that they're playing is gassed
17:33and Montgomery's got 75 yards on, you know, 11 carries or whatever it is.
17:37And he rips a big one off to put the game away.
17:39There's such a, there is a role for a guy like that.
17:43And I'm, I love that pick.
17:44I'm, I'm excited about Allen.
17:45I think he's going to help them.
17:47Um, the one guy we haven't talked a lot about as a show, and I'll just be honest with you,
17:50Scott, it's really hard for us with offensive linemen.
17:53I got, there's no numbers I can look at.
17:55I can tell you PFF liked them.
17:57They had them as their number two run blocking center.
17:59Their number five pass blocking center.
18:01He's six, three, three Oh five.
18:02He played at Michigan state.
18:04I liked that.
18:04He's in a big conference against good competition.
18:06And he went in round six at two Oh nine, which was lower than he should have gone.
18:09But that's kind of what I got for you.
18:11What'd you see from Goldman on tape?
18:13Yeah.
18:14So I, I thought, you know, the one thing that stands out is he's a big physical player,
18:18you know, and he can really maul guys in the run game.
18:20Um, that stood out right away.
18:23Um, I think that, um, the fact that he has the size that he does, which is good because
18:28he's not like a, he's not someone that's only going to be pigeonholed as a center only.
18:32Like I think he'll be able to play guard, um, as well, which is good.
18:35I know that, you know, with the need at center, like the Washington's going to need to take
18:39one of the place center, but you know, you always want to just get your best five out
18:42there.
18:42However, you can do that.
18:44So, you know, him being able to, to play, I think physically, it looks like he's going
18:48to be able to play any of those inside three spots.
18:50Um, that'll be good to see.
18:51I think the one thing he's just good, he's just, you know, and, and you'd rather have
18:54them this way than the other way.
18:55I think he's over aggressive at times.
18:57And so, you know, whether it's, whether it's run blocking or pass blocking, um, you know,
19:01some of the stunts or movements can be an issue, which, you know, you see a lot of in the
19:04NFL.
19:04So, but that's, you know, he just wants to come off the ball and like, and maul people,
19:09which is great.
19:09You know what I mean?
19:10He's just got to learn to play a little bit more under control, which I think, um, he'll be
19:13able to do that, but he's got, he's a physical player and he's going to set the tone
19:18in the run game.
19:19And if you want to be under center, run the ball, play action, uh, action team, you know,
19:23he's going to fit, he's going to fit that mold for you.
19:26Asked, uh, Scott Turner to break down the offensive players, the commanders draft.
19:30You can see why very, very sharp insight from him after looking at some of the tape.
19:34All right.
19:34The last one then is you'll, you'll be surprised to hear this, but there was quite a reaction
19:38when they drafted a seventh round quarterback in Ethan Kaliak-Manus, this kid from Rutgers.
19:44Um, what did you think of him when you watched?
19:48Um, you know, I, I was surprised by the pick.
19:51I think everyone was a little bit, um, you know, especially with, with, you know, some
19:56of the players that were, there were still on the board.
19:58Um, but you know, this guy's played a good amount of football.
20:01You know, he, uh, he started it, started at Minnesota and then transferred to Rutgers.
20:05So he's got a lot of snaps.
20:07I mean, his completion percentage improved, uh, this past year, you know, he's got good
20:11size to him.
20:12Um, I think he's just a project player that you, that, you know, that you'll probably
20:16hope to stash on the practice squad and get developed and then kind of see where he goes
20:20from there.
20:21Uh, you know, a lot of times with these types of players, especially guys that you're looking,
20:26I mean, every, anyone you draft, eventually you'd want them to be a starter, but at this
20:30position, it's a little different, right?
20:31At quarterback.
20:32So I'm sure they're thinking of him as like, Hey, if we can get a cheap guy that can potentially
20:36be a number two quarterback for us in a year, um, you know, it helps, you know, now, and
20:41then Jayden would be going into year, you know, four, you're getting to the point where you
20:44may have to pay him.
20:45Now you don't have to pay the backup.
20:47Um, so, you know, that type of guy, a lot of the interview process, um, all that stuff
20:54plays a big part of it.
20:55So not being, not being privy to that, you know, it's hard to be, do a complete evaluation.
21:00Um, but it, but the one thing you do like about him is that he has played a lot of
21:04football.
21:04Um, you know, obviously you're playing at Rutgers in the big 10, like you're, you're
21:09going to be fighting an uphill battle most of the time, but he hung in there.
21:12You know, you saw him make a lot of good throw.
21:14I think he's like, you know, average, average arm, um, arm strength.
21:18Um, and I think it's just a project type player that they're, they're going to be looking
21:22forward to work with.
21:22How overstated is this?
21:24Or how off base am I Scott to say with a third string quarterback, you're kind of looking
21:30for a vibes guy who is really good in the room and who's pretty non-threatening.
21:35Like, I'm going to help you with the quiz before the game.
21:38I'm really good between the ears.
21:40I'm going to help you with the study and the review, whatever you throw on my desk, when
21:43you got to go out to dinner with the wife or whatever.
21:45And I'm a vibes guy that people want around.
21:47Is it, is that too overstated?
21:49Uh, I think, I think it's a little bit overstated.
21:52I, I think the number one thing you want is someone that you feel like is going to develop
21:56into someone that can help your football team.
21:58Now, now that might be as a backup, um, in, you know, in this case, probably the backup,
22:02but potentially, you know, obviously most of the time it's going to be someone that's
22:06going to develop into someone that's going to be a starter for you.
22:08But as a quarterback, yeah, you want to develop, uh, in the potential backup role.
22:12That's number one.
22:13And then, yeah, number two, you don't want a guy that's a bad guy or someone that's going
22:16to come in and, you know, ask why he's not getting more reps because he thinks he's better
22:20than Jaden.
22:22You know what I mean?
22:22Like, obviously that's an extreme, but we've all, I mean, I've encountered some situations
22:26like that where you kind of caught off guard by the conversation.
22:29Um, you know, guys that are just happy to get the reps that they, they get, they're going
22:34to make the most of it.
22:35And then, like you said, they're going to work hard in the film room, prepare things for
22:38the older quarterbacks, like all that's part of it.
22:40But, you know, I believe first thing first, you want someone that you, you think is going
22:45to end up being a player at some point in this league.
22:47Scott Turner, you can see why I wanted his insight and, uh, him to check out some of
22:52these prospects for us.
22:53Thanks so much.
22:53Really appreciate the time.
22:55No, it was great, man.
22:56Thanks.
22:57Yeah, you got it.
22:57Former OC here in DC with us on Grant and Dan.
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