- 2 days ago
G&D welcome in former Titans GM Ran Carthon - who was with Adam Peters in San Fran's front office - to discuss the Commanders' draft and Brandon Aiyuk's saga in SF.
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00:00We wanted to get some insight on the class they put together from a former executive.
00:04Who better to chop it up with us than someone that worked with Adam Peters for a half decade
00:09in San Francisco with the Niners, was the director of player personnel most recently
00:13there, then the GM of the Tennessee Titans, and the EVP GM most recently in Tennessee.
00:18Rand Carthon is on the Rude guest, Hotline Rude, the most reliable heating and air conditioning
00:23products in the DMV.
00:24Rand, thanks for hopping aboard.
00:26We really appreciate it.
00:27How are you?
00:28Man, I'm doing great, man.
00:29Man, just being a parent, just drop the kid off at a friend's house to swim after school,
00:35so no better time to hop on and talk some ball with the guys on my way home.
00:40Let's go.
00:41Relatable content, by the way.
00:42I got plans to do almost the exact same thing this afternoon.
00:44It's about to get a lot more relatable, because I saw, Rand, you were saying, I watched in
00:48a recent interview, so you're coaching up like a U-8 flag football team, and my partner here,
00:53Danny, is also coaching up a flag football team, but his team's not ranked number 22 in
00:57the country, so you guys might be able to go all BTA on O'Danny over there.
01:01Well, no, I will say I've coached 8U ball with my sons, but this is my daughter, who's
01:08in high school.
01:10She's a senior in high school right now at Ravenwood High School.
01:13Oh, wow.
01:13So, our girls just won, we finished the regular season 12-2, finished ranked number one in
01:21the state, won districts, won regional, so we have our first playoff game here Wednesday
01:26night, so I'm all in on this flag football thing, man.
01:30I love it.
01:30It's been having a blast out there coaching the girls.
01:33Yeah, we're only 4-0 in our rec league, so I think you probably have the edge there.
01:39But we can set up something with the boys' team.
01:41I mean, we can easily set that up.
01:43That will end well for one of you.
01:45I don't know if it's the guy sitting in the studio.
01:46You guys might have a great time.
01:48Right now.
01:48Aran Carthon, a former GM in the league with us here on Grant and Danny.
01:52All right, I want to go through some of the particulars of this commander's draft, but
01:55I'm actually going to skip Sonny Stiles for a second.
01:57The reason is, you've been very high on Antonio Williams.
02:01You were talking about him before the draft in a couple places that I saw you.
02:05How far back does your time evaluating him go?
02:08I'd imagine, you know, in the past you never put together the full board for this year,
02:12but it was a guy that you'd seen and studied some.
02:16Yeah, so going back to his 2024 season, watching him play at Clemson, and coming into the year,
02:23I actually had him rated one of the top five receivers in the draft class coming into the
02:28season.
02:28And as you guys know, that first game of the year against LSU, I believe, he tweaked
02:34his hamstring, and it kind of set him back some.
02:37But then on the latter part of the season, you saw him able to work his way back.
02:40I think with the way the roster is constructed there with the commanders right now, I think
02:45he easily comes in and he's your starting slot receiver.
02:48He was one of the guys in this draft class that I thought could create separation laterally
02:53in those one-on-one situations on those option and choice routes.
02:56I thought he could easily separate.
02:58He has run after the catch ability, which I know is going to be important in this offense,
03:02being able to, you know, take that five-yard route and make an explosive out of it.
03:07So I was high on him.
03:08I mean, if you look at this Clemson group as a whole, how many guys they actually had drafted,
03:13and you look at the type of season they had, I think all of those guys didn't play to the
03:18level that they were expected to coming into the season.
03:21But I'm one of those people, I don't believe they forgot how to play the game of tackle
03:25football.
03:25And so they had a down season for whatever the reason was.
03:29I don't know.
03:30I wasn't in their building, but I know that they are damn good football players.
03:34And I think Antonio Williams is one of those.
03:37So where does he fit in a scheme?
03:39You mentioned he's a good fit in this offense.
03:41And we think we have a good feel for it.
03:43Something like a Ben Johnson, maybe, you know, a couple others, sort of an amalgam here with
03:47David Blau and company.
03:48But is he, I hate to put the moniker of just a slot guy because that diminishes the position,
03:52but do you see him having more versatility in that?
03:55Or is he best suited in the slot?
03:56Kind of going to what you see his role might be, Rand?
03:58No, I think he's best suited in the slot.
04:01But if you know the versatility of this offense, they have a multitude of ways of how to get
04:05the ball in guys' hands and, you know, create those plays, those quick plays, whether it's
04:11the screens, getting the ball out of his hands with blockers in front of him, allow him to
04:16just run the daylight.
04:17I think he's going to be a good, versatile piece in this offense.
04:20Because if you honestly, if you look at the structure of the receivers that they currently
04:24have, like, he's probably the most versatile, right?
04:28And I think if you look at, you know, they took him in the third round, I believe pick
04:3371 is where he went.
04:36They're still, I'm sure there's still hope reports that they will, they will add another
04:41receiver that can play on the outside.
04:43And so if you are able to add another receiver, we shall say that this receiver shall remain
04:48nameless until they can actually come free.
04:50I think if you can add another receiver on the outside, I think the natural fit for him
04:55initially is in the slot, but I also think that he does have X, you know, Y receiver
05:01versatility, but I think he'll be best suited in the slot and in a role where they could
05:05just take advantage of his ability to run with the ball in his hands.
05:08Rand Carthon, former GM on Grant and Danny.
05:11So specific to him and then more broadly, I've got questions kind of as a GM evaluating things.
05:16But his route tree in college, 22% of his routes were screens and 11% curls, 11% slants,
05:2515% crossers, drags.
05:27There was a lot of stuff around the line of scrimmage, which is kind of how I see him
05:31used by David Blau.
05:32What was interesting to me was he ran a 4-4-40.
05:35I didn't necessarily see like Burner when I watched him on tape.
05:39I don't know if you disagree with that, but is there more there?
05:42And like his go route was, I think 6% of the routes he ran, 2% posts.
05:47Is there some more like take the lid off stuff in his game?
05:50No, I think so.
05:51And I think the difference that you have to look at when you're watching the film, right?
05:55Because we don't get, I mean, we get estimated 40 times and you still go estimated 40 times
06:00when you get them from the schools because obviously they're going to say that all their
06:04guys are fast because that hypes up their strength and conditioning program.
06:08So a lot of times when you're evaluating these players until you clock them, whether it's
06:13at the combine or at the pro day, until you clock them yourself, you're just going
06:18off a play speed and I thought his play speed was plenty good.
06:22And so for me, when I'm doing those times, I'm more so looking at it as like, does the
06:27time confirm or deny what I saw on tape?
06:31Right.
06:31And so him running a 4-4 didn't shock me at all.
06:34And I was like, oh, okay, this is par for the course.
06:36I figured he'd run well because I thought he was fast.
06:39Now, the difference is when you're evaluating these wide receivers, particularly coming out
06:43of these college offenses, sometimes it's extremely hard.
06:46And to hear you break down the wide receiver position and the percentages of his routes,
06:52it was like, it's kind of refreshing to hear because, you know, and this is no knock to
06:57the University of Tennessee, but if you were evaluating a wide receiver in that University
07:01of Tennessee offense, it's extraordinary because of what they ask guys to do and what they don't
07:06ask them to do.
07:07So although, you know, those numbers may not, you know, present themselves as a true projection
07:14to the NFL, you did see him be able to run a variety of routes that you're comfortable
07:18with.
07:19And then, but that's also why you go to the pro day to see him run the full route tree.
07:24And sometimes I know times have changed, but sometimes you may even do a private workout
07:28to see the guy run a variety of routes.
07:30I remember years ago when I was in St. Louis and we drafted Tavon Austin very early.
07:37One of the concerns was, can he run the route tree?
07:40You only saw him do, you know, a few things, but then we were able to, our wide receiver
07:44coach, Ray Sherman, was able to work him out and he came back with his report.
07:49It's like, no, this guy can run every route we need him to run.
07:52It's just, you got to also understand that these players are only running the routes that
07:56their offenses are calling for them to run.
07:57So, Ray, tell us about the headliner of this class for Washington.
08:00Sonny Stiles, what does he do well?
08:02What does he not do well?
08:03And how's he going to fit here?
08:05I mean, to me, he is probably for all teams considered in the entire draft, he is in the
08:15probably the most perfect situation for him.
08:19I figured, for me personally, I thought that Sonny would go number four to the Titans.
08:24And I knew that his, you know, the floor for him was seven with the commanders because
08:31of what they ask out of the middle linebacker in this defense.
08:35Robert Sala runs a very similar defense to Dan Quinn.
08:39He actually, Robert Sala learned the defense that he runs because he was a quality control
08:44coach under Dan Quinn in Seattle.
08:47And so, this offense, it puts so much on the middle linebacker.
08:52You know, there are two positions and they kind of got away with it, got away from it,
08:57excuse me.
08:58Initially, in the initial defense, the same linebacker was asked to be a superhero, right?
09:03You had to set the edge.
09:04You had to be able to cover and you had to be able to pass rush.
09:07Well, God only made so many of those guys.
09:10But what they asked the middle linebacker to do in this defense, you're asked to cover,
09:15turn, run, and cover that deep crossing route.
09:17You're asked to be the quarterback.
09:18You're asked to be a vital piece in terms of the run game and your fits and being able
09:24to make tackles.
09:24And so, now you have a guy like Sonny Stiles that has the measurables that he has, that
09:29has the speed, that has the explosiveness, the jumping ability, the length.
09:33He's going to affect throwing lanes in this pass defense.
09:37Not only is he going to be able to turn and run on that deep crossing route to take that
09:41away, him taking that route away, he may not even make a play on the ball.
09:45But just because he's almost 6'5 and he has long arms and has the ability to go up and
09:51get the football, that's going to cause the quarterback to come off that read, which allows
09:55the rush one step closer to get there.
09:58Him playing in the middle of the field in coverage, that shrinks the throwing window
10:02between the middle linebacker and the free safety in the middle of the field.
10:05These are all things that are going to be super effective, that are going to help the
10:09commanders.
10:10I hear people, you know, comping him to Fred Warner.
10:14If you go back and you look at the initial part of Fred Warner's career, guys like Aaron
10:18Rodgers told him very early in his career, you're the best linebacker in the game.
10:23Not because of what we saw in terms of just watching the tape and him making splash plays.
10:28He was so good in coverage because he took reads away from the quarterbacks that have
10:33forced the quarterbacks to hold on to the ball where only the quarterback would have a
10:37true appreciation for what Fred was doing.
10:40I think Sonny can do a lot of those things.
10:42And then when you factor in how young he is and the fact that he's only been playing linebacker
10:47two years and the jump that he made from the 2024 season to the 2025 season showed you
10:53that the sky's the limit.
10:54And then I don't know if you guys have had the opportunity to meet with him or speak with
10:58him.
10:58He carries himself with a demeanor that is that is of a CEO or just a true leader in
11:04how he's, you know, goes about his business.
11:06When I remember interviewing him at the combine, I walked away like no matter what happens, this
11:12kid is going to be successful in life because that's just the way that he goes about his
11:17business.
11:17And of course, our guest, Ryan Carthon, was in San Francisco when they drafted Warner knows
11:22a thing or two about taking those green dot linebackers.
11:25The other fun thing about their defense is you're going to have the marriage of the Quinn
11:29scheme with their new D.C. Durante Jones coming in here to run whatever Flores defense he's
11:34dialing up.
11:35And I want to get your expertise on that, you know, why it's kind of taking the league by
11:39storm here.
11:40This Brian Flores scheme from Minnesota, everyone's trying to get their version of it in place.
11:45Durante Jones leaves his side to come to Washington.
11:48I salivate a little bit about this athletic linebacking core with Stiles, who's got the
11:53number one RAS grade at the position ever coming out.
11:56Leo Chennault, when he came out, was number three among linebackers in RAS ever.
12:00Louvoo's no slouch getting downhill.
12:02I feel like they're going to be able to dial some things up with those guys in space, running
12:05some of those games that Flores likes to run, getting after the quarterback.
12:10Yeah, I think it's the multiplicity that this defense brings.
12:14There are different ways that they could beat you.
12:16What they've traditionally done is they've out-schemed everyone, right?
12:21They get key players that fit into what they can do, but they're all versatile players.
12:25You look at Chennault.
12:27Chennault can probably play all three positions at the linebacker court, and so can Frankie
12:32Louvoo.
12:33So at any given moment, you can move these guys around.
12:36Same with Sonny Stiles.
12:37I think he can play, you know, Sam, Mike, Will, whatever you need him to play.
12:41But it gives you the ability to move linebackers around.
12:45It gives you the ability to move guys on the front around, and you can create these matchups.
12:50And then you'll be able to mix that in on the back end with your different coverage looks.
12:54And so, again, it's the multiplicity of the Brian Flores system that has always given everyone
13:01trouble, whether it was, you know, Brian Flores running it or Patrick Graham running it.
13:05And now Durante Jones bringing his version of it and mirroring with Dan Quinn's system.
13:12It's like, again, leaning back on my experience in San Francisco, we married the Robert Sala
13:19slash Dan Quinn slash P. Carroll system with Chris Kacarek's wide nine mentality when we
13:27brought Chris Kacarek over as the defensive line coach.
13:30And then that became a system in and of itself, and now that's the exact system that D'Amico
13:35Ryan runs down in Houston, and we saw how effective that defense can be.
13:40And so I think sometimes when you get that perfect marriage, again, and you have the players
13:45that fit into the system, it just takes off and creates a monster in and of itself.
13:49So I want to ask you about your experience sitting in the big chair and making those kinds
13:53of decisions with all the input and all the information.
13:55And you mentioned that the schools want their kids to look better, et cetera, and in terms
13:59of that, it's just the misinformation season.
14:02Well, how did you weigh those decisions and how did you, you know, kind of decide what's
14:06the most salient thing that you care about when it came to making sure that you were making
14:09the right pick?
14:10Well, for me, you know, you obviously you lean on your experience, but I think the best
14:15thing, and I know that Adam and DQ have been able to do this, is the marrying of the
14:21scouting system and the coaching staff and the schemes and having an understanding of
14:26what you want to do schematically and what fits.
14:30That was the best thing.
14:31And again, I had my time with the Falcons.
14:33I had my time with the Rams, but it wasn't until I got to San Francisco and being under
14:39Kyle Shanahan and him having a profile for every single position.
14:44And when I say every single position, it wasn't just saying offensive line, we want this
14:49or wide receiver, we want this.
14:51No, it was, we want our center to be able to do this.
14:53Our guards have to be able to do this.
14:55Our tackles have to be able to do this.
14:57Our X, our Z, our FY receivers have to be able to do this.
15:00And as a scout, it makes your job so much easier and it eliminates the guesswork because
15:05you know exactly what you're going out to look for.
15:09And when I hired Brian Callahan here in Tennessee, that was one of the most intriguing things that
15:15he brought because that was the same system he came from under Zach Taylor.
15:20And so for me and him working together, it made it easier for our scouts.
15:25And we came up and I saw this quote somewhere, but I thought it was so pointed for us that
15:30hunting at the same time, isn't the same as hunting together.
15:33And that kind of became one of our mantras because sometimes the scouting and the coaching
15:38can get separated, right?
15:40And the scouts are just out scouting and they're liking players, but sometimes those players
15:44don't fit into what you want to do.
15:46But when you're all aligned and everyone knows what they're looking for, it just makes it easier
15:51to go out and do your job.
15:53So I know one of my co-hosts, Pete Prisco, he's caused quite a sterile X about the whole big
15:59board community and whether teams actually look at the big boards.
16:03I think teams that understand what they're looking for, I don't think they so much as
16:07go out and read what guys like myself here in the media now are putting out in terms of
16:13a big board because your big board for your organization, your scheme, and what you're
16:18doing may look totally different from everyone else.
16:20If you look at and you study what the Niners have done ever since Kyle Shanahan, Adam Peters,
16:27and John Lynch got there, what they've been able to accomplish on day three, rounds five,
16:33through seven, the success that they've had picking guys and how a lot of those guys
16:39went on to be all pros and pro bowlers and starters and got second contracts, whether
16:43it was with the Niners or other clubs, because of the marrying of the scouting system and the
16:48coaching staff.
16:49And a lot of that was driven by your area scouts and your assistant coaches.
16:53Ren, at the risk of keeping you too long, I want to ask you one more because you've got
16:56great insight on Brandon Ayuk being in that San Francisco building you joked earlier about
17:01the unnamed wide receiver.
17:03I mean, there really is no secret here as to what's happening.
17:06I mean, eventually he'll be cut and it's very likely he ends up in Washington.
17:10Adam Peters, who you worked with, knows him from his time in San Fran.
17:14When you were around Ayuk, was he a pretty good teammate, pretty good guy?
17:18And what would you say about the possibility of him getting his career back on track?
17:23Well, I mean, one thing you don't have to worry about with Ayuk is he's going to work
17:28because he's a natural worker.
17:30He's quiet by nature.
17:32And by no means is he a bad person or a bad teammate.
17:36I don't think you can find anybody that'll say that.
17:39I just think Brandon is the type of guy that he has principles, he has beliefs, and he has
17:44things that he's willing to stand on and probably to a fault sometimes.
17:48And so I think that's the impasse where he got, unfortunately, with his time in San Francisco.
17:55But I'm pretty sure, and I probably haven't talked to him since, let's call it, last preseason.
18:02But I'm pretty sure I would hedge my bet and say that he's extremely motivated to prove
18:09people wrong and to show what he's still capable of doing.
18:12And I know the affinity he has for Jaden Daniels and wanting to be able to play with a guy
18:18that he trusts, that he reveres.
18:20And so just him being able to come back, come out on the field, particularly with a guy that
18:25he really wants to play for, then having Adam Peters, someone who was instrumental in drafting
18:30him, and even in his development.
18:33That's one thing that Adam doesn't get enough credit for.
18:36And AP's not the guy that's going to come thump his chest and talk about everything that
18:40he's done, but a lot of the development with the rookies, the day three guys was Adam Peters
18:48led our player development process.
18:51And he eventually brought me along with it, where you spent time with these guys in the
18:56offseason to kind of help them create their play and help them become better pros.
19:00And he was instrumental in that.
19:02So I know from that standpoint, he's worked with B.A.
19:04before, and he has a relationship.
19:06And so I'm sure B.A. trusts him.
19:08And having Adam Peters there is going to really help him if he, you know, it does indeed end up
19:13landing in Washington.
19:15Rand, this is great, man.
19:16Really appreciate the time and insight, buddy.
19:17Thank you for joining us.
19:19No, man, anytime.
19:20Go get that flag football win, by the way.
19:22Let's stay hot.
19:23Oh, we're going to get that.
19:24I got to go study tape now.
19:26Enjoy that.
19:27Former NFL GM Rand Carthon on Grant and Danny here on the.
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