00:01Let's go to the make it right called Kyle Wright Highline.
00:03We'll get back to the draft coming up in 20 minutes.
00:04You can bet your ass on that, but let's welcome in Joe Varner joins us right now.
00:08Senior NBA writer for The Athletic.
00:10We got game three of the first round of the Eastern Conference playoffs tonight.
00:14The Cavaliers taking on the Toronto Raptors.
00:17Joe, how the hell are you?
00:20You know, this is my first time in Toronto since the 2019 finals.
00:26And it's just so crazy.
00:28Um, I've had this a couple of times in my career where you go to a city and you're there
00:33all the time for weeks at a time.
00:36I mean, all the times that the Cavs played the Raptors, you know, all those previous playoff series, there was
00:42an all-star game here.
00:43And then, you know, my first or second year as a national reporter, there was the Raptors and Warriors.
00:49And so then to just go away from one of the great cities in our league and really in the
00:55world for almost seven years.
00:57And then to come back is weird.
00:59So I'm in a, like a nostalgic place and a good place, um, ready to go for game three tonight.
01:05Um, and it's always, uh, it's an awkward time, um, to be covering the Cavs.
01:11And this always happens when they're good, um, because you get to this, this week, right?
01:16Where the whole town kind of tunes out, uh, because there's an NFL draft.
01:20So, uh, I'm hoping that everybody can kind of walk and choose them at the same time, uh, with those
01:26two picks on the board.
01:27And then also Cavs and Raptors, but, uh, we'll see.
01:31Uh, you're in Toronto.
01:32Have you seen the 25 foot ice installation, uh, from the rapper and vocalist Drake?
01:42Have you seen it?
01:43Uh, were you part of that, uh, photo op yet, Joe Varden?
01:47No, uh, I, I have not seen it.
01:50Um, I'm wondering if he'll be like, is he still a Raptors guy?
01:53I don't know.
01:54He was such a, like, he was like, there was, um, one of the years, uh, all the writers, we
02:00went to Drake's restaurant and it was terrible.
02:04It was so bad.
02:05And the next, and the next morning we, at shoot around, we told LeBron, you know, cause he and Drake
02:10were, were pals at the time.
02:12Like, Hey man, your buddy, Drake, his restaurant stinks.
02:16And like he and Richard Jefferson were like doubled over and laughter over this.
02:20Um, but no, I have not seen the sculpture.
02:22Ninth, ninth album coming out soon.
02:24And look forward to your review.
02:25Joe Varden with us right now.
02:26So, uh, I find it very interesting that, uh, this series doesn't seem to be that interesting to the rest
02:32of the NBA.
02:33It's the least talked about everybody just assumes the Cavs are going to go about their business and dispense of
02:39the Raptors in four or five games.
02:41But I got to tell you, the Raptors did a lot of things to make life difficult on the Cavs
02:47offense, but bailing them out was just superstar play.
02:51Donovan Mitchell hitting incredible shots.
02:53James Harden hitting incredible circus shots.
02:56The two of them were able to do it and they really didn't get a lot out of their supporting
03:00cast outside of Evan Mobley.
03:01Can they get away with that again tonight on the road?
03:06Well, those are all really good points.
03:09And then there's like, you throw in that cliche about role players typically playing worse on the road.
03:15Um, so I think, you know, I think this is the, maybe the last pressure point that's available to the
03:22Raptors in this series.
03:23I think, you know, the Raptors did do a lot of stuff that was better in game two.
03:29They were quicker.
03:30They were actually better on the glass than Cleveland in game two.
03:34Um, the Raptors were able to get back out in transition, which they were not able to do in game
03:40one.
03:40Um, and you know, they lose by 10 on a night where Brandon Ingram goes, what, three of 15 score,
03:48seven points.
03:48And, and, and three of those were on a very meaningless three at the end of the game.
03:53So you could say, Hey, um, if the Raptors best player just plays anywhere near average, um, they've got a
04:02great chance to win game three.
04:04But I'm not so sure that's true, um, because to your point, the Raptors did apply a lot of pressure
04:11and press on those pressure points and the Cavs had too much, um, to allow that kind of thing to
04:18stop them.
04:19You know, we were talking at dinner last night that this may be a series where, you know, if the
04:24Raptors are going to get a couple of games that the Cavs would have to help them.
04:27Um, just like have a, you know, a collectively bad night shooting, you know, or maybe turn it over an
04:34outrageous amount.
04:36I just think, um, you know, if you're Toronto and you're trying to get back in the series, the first
04:41thing is Brandon Ingram cannot do this.
04:43And, you know, I wrote after game two, that, that Dean Wade has a lot to do with what's going
04:48on with, with Ingram's poor performance so far, but, but that cannot last.
04:52And then I just wonder, do you, do you try to do to Dean what past teams had done to
04:59Isaac Okoro, like leave him wide open and see if he can shoot him, shoot his way off court.
05:05You know, like if he goes over six, um, and the Raptors are up 10, like, does that force the
05:11Cavs to make a move there?
05:13Um, I don't know if you can do that to this team because James Harden has been so good, you
05:19know?
05:19So, um, so there's, there's a couple options left on Toronto side, but, but the options are dwindling.
05:25We'll say Joe Varn, joining us from the athletic on the make it right call call right hotline calves Raptors
05:30game three tonight in the great white North.
05:33Are we finally starting to see the type of player Evan Mobley can be with James Harden now with him
05:39as a teammate?
05:40You know, and, um, I, I mean, okay.
05:45So the short answer is yes, or maybe, you know, whatever, but, but this has been talked about for a
05:50couple of days and I like it because it's, it's not about Evan reaching his potential.
05:57Like, like, he may have already done that.
05:59Like, like he, this is, this may be who he is, you know, the Cavs, um, and, and I don't
06:06fault them for trying this, but they were in a position in October.
06:10Um, to, they asked him to do more.
06:14They wanted him to do more.
06:16And they were almost like, we all know, we've been talking about this for years.
06:20Like, like Evan has consistently been compared to a Kevin Garnett and they'd also wondered if he could be a
06:28Jason Tatum, um, you know, somebody who can initiate offense and be a scorer with the ball in his hands.
06:36Um, and, and, you know, he tried to make himself into a three point shooter last year with varying degrees
06:43of success.
06:43This is not like a, he was a failure doing that.
06:45Like he, he, he added that, uh, shot to his repertoire last year.
06:50Um, but what they were trying to do this year was a step too far.
06:55And I feel like the pressure of that ask was a little too much.
07:00And I, that's like, Evan kind of struggled this year.
07:02Um, and now with James there next to Donovan and sort of everybody else is healthy and the way that
07:09everybody's kind of playing.
07:12Evan can do what he does best.
07:15And he has just looked awesome doing it.
07:17Uh, his demeanor is different.
07:19Um, he's dressing better, which, which like somebody might laugh at that, but I feel, I feel like that speaks
07:26to, um, his mindset and a certain like confidence level that I think is, is elevated.
07:32And, um, I mean, he is like, you know, rather than worrying about Evan shooting threes or spacing the floor
07:39or pushing the ball or, you know, all that stuff.
07:42He is focused on the defensive end.
07:45He's catching it on the block.
07:46He's catching lobs.
07:48You know, he's, he's a screener and it's just been incredible.
07:51Like what, what, what a fantastic third option.
07:54Look good, feel good, play good.
07:56Varden, when you were a state, he dressed like a slob or something before.
07:59I never noticed.
08:00I just remember Joe as a lowly state house reporter, how he dressed.
08:03And then when he was covering the Laker or covering the Cavs and LeBron James and everything changed, it was
08:09like night and day.
08:11That's I wore suits every day in Columbus.
08:13All right, Joe.
08:16Come on.
08:17Come on.
08:18Yeah.
08:18Keeping up with those heavy hitters down there at the Columbus legislature.
08:21So, all right.
08:22Joe Varden with us right now from the athletics.
08:24So it's interesting.
08:25I quote tweeted and referenced a piece that you guys had after the trade deadline, after the Harden trade, where
08:32Kenny Atkinson and the organization, they basically let everybody know internally they weren't going to make excuses anymore for injuries.
08:39And then they traded for James Harden, somebody very reliable, at least in terms of actually showing up and being
08:46able to play in games.
08:48Harden since then fractured a finger.
08:50You haven't heard anything about it.
08:52He's played through it, opted not to have surgery.
08:54So I think that's kind of what they were talking about.
08:57And I'm wondering from your pals, the national media brethren who go after Harden for his epic playoff choke jobs,
09:05the Frank Isolas of the world, right?
09:08The Zach Lowe's, the Ryan Russillo's, the Bill Simmons.
09:12Are you hearing from anybody that, hey, actually this evolved version of James Harden and playing with Donovan Mitchell, that
09:20maybe he's a little bit different of a player right now?
09:23Is anybody willing to concede it?
09:26Well, to your original point, nobody's talking about the series.
09:32So, so no, I have not heard that.
09:36I have not heard that.
09:37However, however.
09:39We've got people here on the station who are still very stubborn about that.
09:41So that does not surprise me.
09:44Yeah, but look, I mean, I, I, I mean, I, I love this topic.
09:49Um, I covered those heat Philadelphia series where James was just so bad, um, towards the end of those series.
09:58He had two 40 point games in that series.
10:00He was carrying that team.
10:01He was garbage and you know it.
10:04You, you know, it's a lot.
10:06You know what happened at the end.
10:07It's okay.
10:07Just cause he plays for the Cavs.
10:09Now you could admit garbage is garbage.
10:11I, I, I, but, but he is.
10:13Point to me, uh, Darius Garland's 40 point games in the playoffs.
10:16We're not comparing him to Darius Garland.
10:18I'll be waiting, Ken.
10:19I compare him to one percentage.
10:20That's right.
10:21Joe, I'll be waiting all day.
10:22You sit there and you make fun of everybody else on this station for not knowing ball.
10:25How about you figure it out yourself instead of getting into the $60 bottles of hooch every single night.
10:31Sorry, go ahead.
10:31Go ahead, Joe.
10:34This is pretty good.
10:35Uh, so yeah, so I, I remember that stuff too.
10:40Um, but he, he does look fantastic right now and Donovan would be the perfect compliment,
10:48uh, to him at this stage of his career and having Evan out there, a healthy Evan, that's
10:55a lot different than playing with a banged up Joel Embiid.
10:58It just is.
10:59Um, and so I think the options around James are better than they've been in a while.
11:05Um, and then to, to Lyman's other point about the injuries, my goodness, like what an attitude
11:11change, um, on this whole team.
11:13And I think when we're, I can't remember when this was, it was very recent.
11:17Uh, maybe it was a practice last week.
11:19I asked, I, I said to James, like, Hey, uh, you know, eight weeks ago, you broke your thumb
11:26and we haven't heard word one about it since.
11:28How are you feeling?
11:29And then he looked at me with like, uh, like half dead pan, like almost, uh, almost like
11:34a disdain and was like, yeah, I don't even know how you guys found out about that.
11:39And that was all he said.
11:40Um, and then last, so like, what a departure from just the way things used to be here.
11:47Uh, and I still find myself holding my breath, uh, every time one of these guys goes down,
11:54like, is, are they going to get back up just cause that's what we have seen over and over
11:58again at this time of year.
12:00Um, and so if James does nothing else other than reset the culture of like what you play
12:06through, like one of the games, I think it was game one.
12:09I think he got karate chopped in the throat by a shed and, uh, and you know, like James
12:15didn't even go down, uh, just kind of like, you know, shook it off and kept playing.
12:20Um, that that's just, we're just not used to that.
12:23And, uh, and so to see that be the version of the calves in the playoffs is, is heartening
12:27for sure.
12:29Joe, I was going to ask a patent at one of those one name questions, but I think I got
12:33to
12:33lead you there a little bit.
12:34Uh, was there real, there was sincere, I, I saw the snippet from your article.
12:38There was sincere heat on Kenny Atkinson and maybe even Kobe Altman midway through the
12:42year.
12:43Was there not?
12:45Oh, I think so.
12:46I think so.
12:47I mean, yeah, I, I, I certainly think that's true.
12:53Has that all cooled?
12:54Are we going to sit here and have these conversations again?
12:57Say they, if they go against, uh, Boston and things don't go very well in the Eastern
13:01conference finals against Boston, cause they're, they look like a completely different basketball
13:05team, not that the playoffs have started.
13:07And I think that they can maybe take Boston to the limit.
13:10I'm not sure if they could get the job done, but, uh, I, I want cooler heads to prevail.
13:15This is a good basketball team.
13:16And no matter what happens this off season or this post season, I I'd like some time to
13:21gel during the off season and get going for at least one more run next year.
13:26Yeah.
13:27I think in your scenario, when you're talking about Boston, that's a conference finals.
13:32And so that is, um, that's a step further than this group has ever gone.
13:38And so to me, so to me, that's a win.
13:41And you set yourself up for a, for a run next year, um, with a little bit of tinkering, but
13:46anything short of that, um, you're talking about the most expensive roster in the NBA.
13:52Um, you need to get further than the second round to keep paying that.
13:56And, and so, you know, I, I just said, I've, I've said this a couple of times that short
14:02of getting to a conference final, there will be major changes.
14:05Um, now what does that mean that could be, that could be on the coaching staff that could
14:11be in the front office or it could just be in the roster, you know, that you could just
14:15decide like, Hey, we, we can't set up the roster and pay this kind of money for these
14:20results.
14:21So let's try something else.
14:22Personnel wise.
14:23I think all that stuff is on the table.
14:25Um, but there's no reason to really like go there now because things are great.
14:30They're up to O they look awesome.
14:33Um, they're healthy, you know, they're playing together.
14:37Like Kenny's rotations are tight.
14:39Um, you know, they're defending, which I'm, I'm like a little surprised by.
14:43Like we talk all the time about, can you flip a switch?
14:46What do you mean?
14:47You're surprised.
14:47They got all their best defensive players back Varden.
14:50Come on.
14:51I agree with Joe, please.
14:53No, I could go to hell.
14:54Lima.
14:55So busy texting with his buddy, Larry householder that he can't watch the games.
15:05Yes or no, Joe.
15:06Does Larry householder look like Freddie kitchens walking to court?
15:11Yes.
15:13Welcome to the no spin.
15:14We got to go, Joe.
15:15We're out of time.
15:16Thank you, Joe.
15:17Okay, guys.
15:18Talk to you.
15:18Joe Martin from the athletic.
15:21I'm the big, you're right.
15:22Call Kyle.
15:22Right.
15:23I lot.
15:29You're an insane person.
15:33I got to text Joe now.
15:34At least he was laughing at the end of the interview.
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