La misteriosa scomparsa delle gemelline Alessia e Livia Schepp, uno dei casi più sconvolgenti della cronaca italiana. Il 30 gennaio 2011, le bambine vengono affidate al padre per un weekend, ma da quel momento scompaiono senza lasciare tracce. Una ricerca disperata che, dopo anni, non ha ancora portato risposte.
#Dectectives #Shepp #GemelleShepp #PinoRinaldi #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime
#Dectectives #Shepp #GemelleShepp #PinoRinaldi #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime
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TVTrascrizione
00:00In the story we are going to tell you now, that of the Shepp twins, we have another mother
00:05protagonist, her name is Irina Lucidi and she is the mother of Alessia and Livia, two twins of
00:12six years. It's night when a tourist, after having traveled miles and miles of road,
00:20He arrives at the train station of a small town in Puglia. It's called Cerignola.
00:27Countryside and there he throws himself under a train and that man who throws himself under a train was
00:36Irina's husband, the mother of the twins. This suicide marks the silence on one of the
00:46biggest criminal mysteries of recent years.
00:59On the night of February 3, 2018, at the Cerignola Campagna train station, the shadow
01:09of a man walks along the tracks and is subsequently hit by the Eurostar Milan-Bari.
01:26The suicide had the documents, the body was obviously recognizable, but he had his documents
01:32in his shirt pocket. And it turns out to be a certain Mattias Schepp, a Swiss citizen.
01:42He heard my mother who had answered at three years old and started screaming and then it opened up
01:48that terrible scenario.
01:52It turns out that the suicide is a man who took away two little girls, two twins,
01:56He took six-year-old Livia and Alessia away from home, promising to take them back to school.
02:02January 31st. The girls never made it to school. The mother is desperate because
02:07he doesn't know where they are and then the drama begins.
02:16Dr. Fabrocini, good evening and welcome to Detective. At this point, I ask you to start again.
02:25where she began to live this story. That is, that night when someone warns you
02:37that something happened in this small station in Puglia.
02:42Doctor, it wasn't a night. It was a night, many nights, many days, weeks, that begins
02:48with a phone call. When they inform me that someone committed suicide under a train.
02:54I think for someone who is an investigator and therefore accustomed to a certain type of investigation, it's a suicide
03:01It's not something that worries us that much. Because a choice that a person made
03:07There's no crime, they don't usually do thorough investigations. So I listened to the operator.
03:12who told me the story. But there was something strange about that story. There is a citizen
03:18Swiss man who came to commit suicide in Cerignola. We didn't understand why, we still didn't know
03:24that there were some little girls who couldn't be found. We only knew that a certain Mattias Schepp was
03:30He had come to commit suicide in Cerignola. Cerignola is not a tourist place. This thing...
03:34It seems very strange.
03:35Why do you immediately think of suicide?
03:38We have some witnesses. We managed to trace two people who saw someone jump.
03:43on the wall, go towards the tracks, go towards a train, do not avoid it
03:49train ride. It was undoubtedly suicide.
03:52You know that this gentleman is the father of two little girls who have been missing for days
04:01in Switzerland and so you know about this story?
04:06We learned this during the night. He was immediately a nobody to us. When we took him
04:11contacts with the Swiss police we understand the drama behind that gesture and we know
04:17that we have some little girls to look for. As I told my co-worker when we were going
04:23on the spot, either we find them tonight or we never find them again.
04:28What do you discover about this Mattias Scheppe?
04:32All these investigations are almost immediate. We could call it mere investigative bureaucracy.
04:38Because we immediately find the car parked outside the station. It's nothing complicated.
04:42Inside we find personal effects, we find his wallet, we also find a list
04:47of places where he presumably went to sleep. We also found a wedding ring,
04:53Inside that wedding ring there is only one name written, Irina, the girls' mother.
04:59When does the operation become an international one? What happens?
05:06We immediately contact Interpol, inform them of what happened on the
05:11place and obviously then they will give us all the information in their possession shortly.
05:15What do they tell you? That he left Switzerland days before and that he had with him,
05:21or at least we hoped, the girls. When will you get this information? I mean, the girls.
05:27Should they stay with their dad? The search is becoming frantic. What do you do?
05:37There are a whole series of steps that are taken. The first is clearly the most immediate,
05:41field research. Divide the territory into zones, organize research groups with
05:46volunteers, people at the Red Cross, with other police forces and even just volunteers
05:51of the country who rush to lend us a hand. We also clearly provide news to the press.
05:57that we are looking for the girls. Let's spread the images so that this can
06:01facilitate the tracing. Then the technical investigations continue, the analysis on the
06:06cell phone, unlock the cell phone always thanks to Irina who manages to recover the
06:13unlock code. And from there we can download the messages to understand what the possible causes may be.
06:19Last hours of life. Unfortunately, nothing helpful in finding the girls.
06:23Mattias Schepp died, taking this terrible secret with him. Where are the little Alessias?
06:33And Lidia? But even more so, who was Mattias Schepp really?
06:43But when I met him I described him as a sunny person, very sporty, an excellent
06:51navigator, very reliable, punctual.
07:00They were both employees of a multinational company. They met during a company trip,
07:09a relationship had begun which Irina, frankly, told me she hadn't given too much weight to.
07:16Of the two, he was definitely the one who showed the greatest interest. And a few months later, Irina
07:26She was delighted to discover that she was pregnant.
07:33Mattias was a bit surprised by this unexpected paternity. He even proposed a
07:42radical solution to my cousin who obviously doesn't accept it. I calmly tell him about my
07:49I'll take care of your daughters, no problem. Some time later there was another surprise.
07:56upon discovering that she was indeed expecting twins. And at that point Mattias, perhaps because he himself
08:03twin went back on his decision, went back to Irina, said he was very happy to become
08:10a model father and she asked him to marry her.
08:15They lived in a state of absolute well-being, they had a wonderful house, they had these two
08:21beautiful daughters. The situation is perfect.
08:30I left home because I didn't feel comfortable at home.
08:36It was quite rigid, very schematic. The girls had a life bordering on the obsessive,
08:44that is, after lunch we rested, after dinner we went to sleep always at the same time.
08:48He would stick post-it notes to remind himself how to turn off the light, how to open or close the door.
08:56A series of small oddities that, however, when put together, almost became a millstone.
09:00So at that point Irina decides to separate.
09:11Irina Lucidi leaves home because she no longer feels comfortable.
09:18She's no longer comfortable with her husband. During their time together, she saw his true colors.
09:26by Mattias Schep. A discovery that happens day after day, as slowly as an eyedropper.
09:35That man who previously appeared precise, reliable, thoughtful, reveals a personality
09:41increasingly disturbing. Think about it, papering the house with post-it notes, like these ones that contain
09:50orders on obvious or absurd matters. Professor Giannini, I'd like to read these post-its.
10:00First close the door, then turn on the light.
10:04The milk must be heated in the jug and not in the oven, in the microwave.
10:11The milk should be poured after the cereal has been placed in the bowl and not before.
10:19Then he makes a list of the clothes the two girls need to wear.
10:26Because there must be no strange coincidences. For Alessia, for example, pink pants,
10:31Color with balloons, green pants. For Livia, jeans and glitter. In short, wearing
10:38first the tank top, then the T-shirt.
10:43It is a description that gives us the image of a man who is represented at the beginning
10:50as sunny, reliable. But then gradually it changes. We slide into obsessiveness.
10:56Obsessiveness is a form of control. So obsessiveness is exercised by those who
11:02has an extreme need for control. All this generates, and we cannot be surprised, the fact
11:08that the wife no longer feels at ease and can no longer live in what she
11:13It has become a cage. He created a cage, a trap.
11:16Thank you, Professor Giannini.
11:20The professor has put together a series of elements that help us better understand personality
11:27of this man, of this husband and of this father.
11:34Doctor Fabrocini, we are arriving at the weekend that according to the agreement between husband and wife, the girls
11:46They were supposed to spend it with their dad. Is this a given?
11:51That's the certain fact and that's where the first strange things begin. During that weekend, when
11:58the father refuses to take the girls home as agreed, Irina, mother's instinct,
12:06He senses that something is wrong, something isn't right. That's something you can sense.
12:11even reading the messages, he changes his attitude, becomes condescending, says it's okay keep them,
12:16but let it be the last time.
12:17But when he sees that there is no answer, he begins to be seriously and, alas, rightly so.
12:23worried.
12:24There is a detail that worries Irina that day, when she doesn't see him coming back
12:35the daughters, takes the car, reaches the house where they once lived together
12:42and he notices what?
12:44That there is no car.
12:45And that's when Irina raises the alarm. So let's see what happens that day.
13:01The last people to have seen the girls alive were those neighbors where
13:08He had left them during the Sunday morning. After that he would have
13:15I had to return them to my mother. At that point, a text conversation began.
13:22I'm taking the girls to school tomorrow. Kisses, M. They're still on the way. I'll take them directly.
13:29at school.
13:30No, bring it directly to me at home, no later than seven o'clock.
13:34No, they both say they want to see more of Dad.
13:38No, they're coming to my house tonight as we agreed. I understand the fixed point and I don't
13:45it's ok, but next time no surprises.
13:50Around eight o'clock, Irina notices that Mattias's car isn't in front of the house.
13:58He still had the keys to what had been his home until a few months earlier and decided
14:03to return.
14:05Find the two girls' car seats with the two stuffed animals and the backpacks that she had given
14:14to the girls to spend those days with their father.
14:22And there, clearly, he understands that something is wrong. He couldn't even imagine
14:27that Mattias took his daughters in the car without making them sit in car seats, because
14:33it was outside his mental framework.
14:38I had the feeling that he had prepared everything, that he had put things in order, that things
14:44They were in order. Backpacks, purses, office bags, everything empty.
14:52Then he freaks out and calls the police immediately.
14:56He manages to convince the police to enter the apartment, where this is found
15:04message, this will, which she assures was left by a few
15:11hours there.
15:13My death is only a matter of time. To Irina Luci di Schepp, my wife, I leave
15:20only the legal shares. My daughters Alessia and Livia must each inherit the
15:26half of what is due to them. If my daughters Alessia and Livia are no longer
15:32in life, my brother and sister shall be the principal heirs and shall each inherit
15:39in equal parts.
15:41The police significantly underestimate many aspects of the affair.
15:49In an attempt to reassure her, an officer tells her, your husband is Swiss, he is German,
15:55he's not Brazilian, he's coming back.
16:00What was decided to do was to wait until Monday morning at 8am for school to start.
16:05to see if the father would go and bring his daughters back.
16:11Already in those first hours, a solitary battle begins that Irina must fight because
16:18he perceives that he has no people in front of him who share his concern, rather they are looking for
16:24to belittle.
16:25Too many hours pass, Mattias Schepp kills his cell phone by dialing three times
16:33incorrect pin.
16:36I lost you, please come back, I'm very scared for you and I love you.
16:46This last message is Irina Lucidi's desperate attempt to make that man go back
16:54who knows nothing about love.
16:58He is simply blinded by the desire for revenge against her, against a woman, a
17:05mother who decided to leave him.
17:09But the situation in Lausanne is paradoxical.
17:12A man disappeared with his daughters and even turned off his cell phone which was last used
17:21located in another city, Geneva, near the border.
17:27Dr. Fabrocini, why isn't the Swiss police alarmed yet?
17:33He thinks it is a case of child abduction, as we see many of, which maybe will only be
17:38a temporary issue.
17:41One question, would you have done the same thing as the Swiss?
17:44I don't know, you act the subject in these cases, maybe he would have made more serious mistakes
17:50if anything they have...
17:51In short, these Swiss policemen are not that worried, but Irina Lucidi is instead
17:56really worried.
17:58What are the elements that make you so anxious?
18:04Mattias is a methodical man and the girls go to sleep very early in the evening and at that time
18:10they should have already been in bed.
18:12But the girls only go to sleep if they have their stuffed animals with them and those were in the house.
18:18The girls weren't there.
18:20Stuffed animals, yes.
18:23Beyond these details there is something, a boulder that weighs on Irina's mind, that
18:32such an absurd, disturbing will.
18:37How is it possible that at first it goes almost unnoticed, that this mother has to insist?
18:45in any way to convince the Swiss police that their alarm is not exaggerated?
18:53Doctor Fabrocini, the will was clear, there was in a not so implicit way a
19:01death threat.
19:03Why do his colleagues in Switzerland underestimate those words?
19:09I don't know what the reasons for underestimating it could be, I say I have the will.
19:14read when we already knew what had happened.
19:18That will was not written in French but in German.
19:25Does this data slow down the investigation?
19:30From what we have ascertained it seems that for a procedural reason they needed,
19:35as we clearly need transcriptions that are in some way certified.
19:41The policemen did not speak that language and the translation that Irina did could not have been
19:46be considered valid at the time the document must be sent to the prosecutor, it must
19:51to do an investigation.
19:52It's clearly a clue.
19:53My criminal law professor used to say that there is an unbridgeable gap between law and justice.
19:57detachment.
19:58Well, that's what the policeman has to do, try to shorten it.
20:01So even if that act is not valid, you can certainly take action for that.
20:05which may be the logical consequences.
20:08Besides this will, is there anything Irina discovers that is missing from the house?
20:17Some bags are missing.
20:19Big bags.
20:21How big?
20:26Enough to contain little girls, if that's what you want to know.
20:33There is another element that the Swiss police do not give much importance to and they tell us about it
20:40directly her, Irina Lucidi.
20:47So we know that Mattias was wearing a certain type of shoe when he was found.
20:54low, while the neighbor, who was the last person to see him on Sunday,
21:03she remembers seeing him wearing high boots with laces.
21:08What was so important about these boots?
21:12Surely some traces of earth underneath...
21:17Have you seen them?
21:17Yes, I saw them.
21:19And was there some mud that had dried by now?
21:23Yes, yes.
21:23And I handed them over to the police, I had the forensic team come over.
21:27So, was she the one who said that it remains important?
21:29And why are they so important?
21:32Why was there mud on the car too?
21:35Yes, exactly.
21:36Perhaps this mud could be of the same nature.
21:45Doctor Fabrucini, they were shoes like these, the ones Irina is referring to, and they were dirty.
21:55of mud, has the Swiss police ever analyzed that mud, connected it with that
22:05found in the car and maybe she was able to figure out in which area Mattias Schepp could be
22:13having stepped on that mud and then carried it with him?
22:19We did it.
22:21We did it because we similarly find mud inside the car, on the
22:26car fender.
22:28It is first analyzed by the forensic team, then it is also given to a professor from Torvergato,
22:33to a biologist, precisely to try to understand which areas that can be traced back to
22:38certain mud.
22:40We understand that they are not attributable to the Cerignola area, but to neighbouring areas, therefore
22:45he brought it from Switzerland, he brought it from France, he brought it anyway
22:50from far away from the place where he committed suicide, but these findings also tell us that
22:56the areas compatible with that terrain are so vast that they would not have helped us in any way
23:01way in searches.
23:03Yet they are precisely the shoes that Scheppe was wearing on the day of his disappearance, as
23:08the neighbors say, and that he would then change before leaving.
23:13Why, I ask myself, a man so precise, so maniacal, why on the day when already
23:19he had planned his entire criminal conduct he should have entrusted his daughters to the neighbors
23:27to go trekking?
23:29Because that's what happens.
23:31Doctor Fabrocini, what can we say about this particular matter?
23:40If the hypothesis you are raising is that he somehow looked for a place
23:46where to hide the girls, I know that the whole area has been patrolled by the police with all
23:55the most imaginable search systems.
23:59I don't know how else to explain this estrangement, however.
24:03I would like us to go back in time a little, to Switzerland.
24:11I ask you, regarding Irina Lucidi's awareness, did she know she was a victim?
24:22of violence?
24:24To my person in court not to the end. Irina Lucidi is a person who tried
24:28to save the marriage. They had both been to a psychologist to try to help
24:34the couple. One of the little girls also died. Unfortunately, it hadn't helped.
24:38But during those hours the Swiss police turn to these psychologists to get more
24:46information? Because here a detail could be crucial.
24:51I don't think they even had time to do it immediately. They probably did it later.
24:57when it came to having a complete picture that would allow us to acquire some elements
25:02to look for the girls.
25:03She is very generous towards the Swiss police, but at the moment
25:08these two little girls disappear, every detail, I repeat, every detail can be fundamental
25:17and in those hours, not after, besides the psychoanalysts, there were people who were aware
25:28of this continuous violence that Mattias Scheppe exercised on his wife, on his mother
25:38two little twins?
25:39Even Irina wasn't aware of this ongoing violence. For her, he was a father.
25:45loving who cared about his daughters, they had been on holiday together, the girls were
25:50happy. She had made a life choice because at a certain point they were no longer
25:54in a position to continue a marriage, but did not criticize him as a father.
26:00No one can say what might have happened if the Swiss police had immediately believed
26:05to Irina Lucidi, to her concern. Who knows if things would have gone differently, if
26:11Mattias Scheppe could have been stopped before he disappeared. We can imagine
26:18but the impotence of a mother who despite being the victim whose children were taken away
26:25Daughters are not believed. At this point I want to ask a question.
26:31to Professor Antinori. Beyond the normal procedures, those adopted in the event of theft
26:42of minors by a parent, there is something I would like to understand in the dynamic between Irina
26:51Lucidi and the Swiss police. And there are also some expressions that don't make sense to me.
26:58Certainly, some critical issues are highlighted in communication, especially on the part of
27:03Swiss authorities with respect to the lady. A clear example is when the origin is cited
27:08Swiss German and Brazilian as comparative elements that are referred to in the reading through
27:16stereotypes and generalizations to a behavior that is on the one hand rigorous, careful and
27:21responsible and on the other hand as far as the Brazilian is concerned it has a volatility
27:26in his behavior, he has little reliability, he has little responsibility. It seems that there
27:32is an underestimation of the risk.
27:35Thank you Professor Antinori, but how is it possible that so much time passes before
27:42Should an investigation be launched in a dramatic situation like this? We ask Judge De Gioia.
27:51I have heard of a sort of underestimation by the Swiss police, but it also goes
27:57having said that in that initial phase we do not have kidnapping as a criminal hypothesis,
28:03that is, it's not two parents who go to the police saying the little girl has disappeared, someone
28:09took the girls. There, this mother is represented by the one who in Italy, for example,
28:15it is a minor offence, it is said that the father is not respecting the agreements that
28:21they manage and regulate the right of access, they are essentially saying that they are keeping
28:28for more hours than necessary. When the situation worsens because the
28:33crossing the national border we enter into another type of crime, which is that
28:38of international child abduction, which when put like this seems like a very common case
28:43important with who knows what sanctioning regime, but we are always talking about hypotheses of crime
28:48minors who, for example, would not have consented to the adoption of precautionary measures.
28:52But if what is happening in Switzerland had happened in Italy it would have happened at the same speed,
28:58or rather the slowness and that slightly precocious, distant attitude.
29:06So if a situation like this were to happen today in Italy it would be stopped at that stage
29:12precedent which is the civil trial. Today that systematic, psychological violence, which has been a bit
29:20underestimated by everyone, today it constitutes a crime of domestic abuse.
29:26So when a personal separation trial begins, as a result of the new rules that
29:31we have, the mere allegation, that is, to represent the existence of these peculiar situations in the
29:38couple relationship, especially with minors, leads to the activation of a mechanism
29:44which for example would certainly have precluded the assignment to him and probably also
29:50the exercise of the right of visitation.
29:51Thank you Dr. De Gioia, but let's go back to that day, the day of the disappearance, the cell phone
29:59by Mattias Schepp connects to cells near Geneva, then the signal disappears.
30:06From that moment on, the journey begins, or rather the escape of a man and perhaps also of his
30:15two daughters. The baton passes from the Swiss police to the French, then to the police
30:24race and everyone follows that tragic journey with bated breath. Everyone hopes to stop
30:32Mattias, to save the two girls. Everyone hopes their mother will soon be able to hug them again.
30:43Mattias Scheppe leaves traces, but the police are always one step behind. When they get there,
30:52Scheppe passed by, he had already turned the corner and disappeared again.
31:02It seems the dogs smelled something inside Mattias Scheppe's house.
31:06In San Suizio, Swiss police officers entered the garage of the twins' father.
31:11full of work tools. Three hours of inspection cover the house and garden inch by inch.
31:18On Monday it was known that Mattias passed through France.
31:26We learn that after 7.30pm on Sunday evening his phone was located
31:32near Lyon. And after that, there's no further information.
31:40Pictures have been found of Mattias Scheppe and his car passing around
31:48at 9.30 pm in Montelimar Nord. And the next morning, shortly before 9 am, there are some new reports
31:57images in which he returns to the highway. So throughout the night it is not known what
32:03have done.
32:08The toll video does not allow us to see the presence of the two girls. They could
32:14very well to be hidden behind.
32:19He spent the night in Montelimar. A search was carried out. Unfortunately,
32:25No hotel was found where Mattias Scheppe could stay with his two daughters.
32:30It would mean that he spent the night, or they spent the night, in the car. It's the month
32:36January and the outside temperature is very cold. The next day, Irina, since they had
32:47a joint account, informs us that her husband withdrew money from ATMs
32:53in Marseille. We recovered the videos of the bank withdrawal. In these images it was always
33:05alone. So we can make several hypotheses. That the girls are in the car, sleeping.
33:12or drugged, or that there is another person who was able to recover the girls and who therefore
33:19she took care of them during this period of time.
33:25The question immediately arose: why? What was he supposed to do with all this cash?
33:29Almost 8,000 euros, 7,500 euros with him. Let's say he was open to the hope that he might have used
33:37that money to give to someone who would take care of the girls.
33:47Our appeal for witnesses allowed us to contact a travel agency
33:54who told us that on Monday 31st around midday he received a single man who he recognized
34:01like Matthias Schepp who showed up for a boat trip to Corsica.
34:09She booked three tickets in her name and in the names of her two daughters, Alessia and Livia Schepp.
34:15Livia and Alessia, etc.
34:29Do you remember this postcard?
34:33It was shipped on January 31st from Marseille.
34:36This was made public a few days later. Why?
34:42Investigative choice. Sometimes such data may be disclosed in an attempt to obtain information.
34:49because we talk about it, because reports may arrive.
34:53Or?
34:54Or he keeps quiet in such a way as not to let it be known that he is aware that he has been there.
34:58Marseille
34:59because it is thought that there is an accomplice, someone who is trying to hide traces of the girls
35:03and so a choice of this type is made.
35:05I'll read to you what's written on this postcard.
35:10I'm already completely crazy, sick, exhausted, destroyed.
35:16Help!
35:17Exclamation points.
35:18I can't take it anymore.
35:20I can't take it anymore.
35:21Everyone wanted to help me.
35:24Only you?
35:25No.
35:25My wife.
35:27Exclamation points.
35:29You didn't have time to talk even once.
35:33That's why I went crazy.
35:37Now I don't want any more help.
35:40It's too late.
35:42I have always loved you.
35:47Too late for what?
35:50He had already done what he had to do.
35:53I want to be optimistic instead because there are 7500 Euros
35:58that Mattias withdraws from an ATM.
36:04What is all that money for?
36:07what if he had already decided to take his own life?
36:11Doctor, do you see in Mattias Schepp's path in the last days?
36:15there are many things that can be explained
36:17and others that aren't.
36:20Those 7500 Euros that were withdrawn from the ATM,
36:23more than half, were sent to Irina.
36:28That is, he withdrew some banknotes without any sense.
36:32which he then sent to his ex-wife.
36:35He had posted the last one in a mailbox in Cerignola.
36:37They had never left.
36:38We found them inside the mailbox.
36:41But there is another fact, as certain as it is disturbing.
36:46Mattias Schepp bought only one ticket
36:50leaving Corsica to return to France.
36:55But when he went to Corsica
36:58he had made three tickets.
37:03Did the girls remain in Corsica?
37:06Or even if you don't do this to mislead
37:10three tickets, he brought them back to France
37:14and then go to Italy?
37:17But above all they were on the ship
37:20or did they never leave Switzerland?
37:25Let's look at this service.
37:30February 1st.
37:31The ferry docks at 6.30am.
37:33According to other witnesses, his daughters are with him.
37:36The mother's hopes are rekindled.
37:37The fact that I saw all three of them alive
37:40on the ferry to Corsica
37:43This is certainly an encouraging fact.
37:50There is no certainty about the ferry
37:53of the presence of the girls.
37:55Among other things on that ferry
37:57the video surveillance system
37:59it didn't work.
38:02But the fact remains that he
38:03he had bought three tickets.
38:07They both definitely had pants on,
38:10jeans.
38:10Alessia who would be this one here
38:14it has boots with a side zip
38:19while Livia had on some sneakers
38:24white and pink.
38:30We have obtained an important testimony
38:33which is that of a sailor.
38:35His attention was drawn
38:38from a large vehicle,
38:40probably the Schep family's Audi A6
38:42and above all by the presence of two little girls.
38:48A passenger who was in the cabin
38:50next to that of Matthias Schep
38:52he heard some crying
38:53which he interpreted as the cries of a little girl.
38:59A witness in Corsica
39:01who was present at the arrival of the ship
39:03he said he saw a person
39:05who recognized as Matthias Schep
39:08in addition to the two girls and a woman.
39:12So it had actually been considered
39:15the possibility that Matthias Schep
39:17could have benefited
39:18of a person's help,
39:20especially of a woman.
39:22Anyone who might have seen them
39:25in Italy, in Switzerland, in France,
39:27don't hesitate to go to the police
39:30to report what he saw,
39:34what he heard,
39:35what he knows.
39:44In short, some witnesses
39:47they really seem to have seen and heard
39:51the two little twins.
39:55Few, few testimonies,
39:57not found by anything,
39:59while there are many others
40:01who only see the father.
40:02According to her,
40:04Alessia and Lidia,
40:07on that ship to Corsica,
40:09did they go up or not?
40:12In my opinion on the ferry
40:13they may have gone up,
40:15but not to live.
40:22She reports
40:23to those missing bags?
40:25I also report the images
40:26that we see in Marseille,
40:28those inside the garage,
40:29those when he withdraws the bank,
40:30while the girls are never there.
40:32That trip to Corsica
40:34opens up two possibilities.
40:37The first,
40:39that during the night,
40:41during the night journey
40:43towards Corsica,
40:44he using his own
40:46those bags that are missing
40:48At home,
40:49may have put in
40:51the bodies of the two girls
40:52and may have thrown them into the sea.
40:58Is this hypothesis plausible?
41:03It's a possibility, of course.
41:05He sees on a ship's bridge
41:07during the night
41:08not many people pass by.
41:09He was an athletic person,
41:11fit, he was training,
41:12therefore perfectly capable
41:14to carry them inside bags.
41:16The other hypothesis is that he
41:19bring the girls still alive,
41:22even if we don't see them anywhere,
41:25he embarks with the girls,
41:27arrives in Corsica
41:28and gives it to someone.
41:33Is something like this possible?
41:35It's absolutely possible.
41:37You see, it's not that we haven't investigated.
41:39in this sense.
41:41Alas we found nothing
41:43that could make us think
41:45that he actually had
41:46contact with someone
41:50to deliver the girls.
41:52We hope so,
41:53we hoped so at the time.
41:54We always have a glimmer of hope
41:56because, as we said before,
41:57Investigators are optimistic.
41:59But if I have to tell you honestly,
42:02from a technical point of view,
42:04no elements
42:06we found the answer
42:08of this which is the most beautiful hypothesis.
42:10Maybe I will be
42:15tirelessly optimistic,
42:16but I don't want to imagine
42:19the epilogue
42:20that she from the beginning
42:22he presents to me,
42:24that is, the death of these two little girls.
42:28You know exactly
42:30the tour he took
42:32Mattese Schepp
42:33once arrived
42:35in Corsica
42:37before taking the ferry again
42:39and go back to France?
42:41No,
42:42it was not possible to reconstruct.
42:44Why?
42:45Why the elements
42:46that we found
42:46from a technical point of view
42:48they were a cell phone,
42:49among other things of the old generation,
42:51turned off at the moment
42:52where he left Switzerland.
42:54It leaves no trace,
42:54it leaves no indication.
42:56The subsequent analysis also
42:57what we did
42:57he gave us very few elements
43:00which allowed us
43:01to find out his position.
43:02Then he had in tow
43:04a satellite navigator.
43:06This satellite navigator
43:08he brought it with him
43:09at the moment in which
43:10he decided to take the plunge
43:11against a moving train.
43:12It was shattered into a thousand pieces,
43:14really in a thousand pieces.
43:15So Mattese Schepp
43:17he didn't give us
43:17the possibility
43:18to rebuild
43:19in detail
43:20his journey.
43:21That little
43:22that we succeeded
43:23to rebuild
43:25we did it
43:25thanks to the testimonies,
43:27thanks to molecular dogs,
43:29to some images
43:30stolen
43:30from motorway toll booths
43:32and from ATMs
43:33and little else.
43:34Listen, you're telling me
43:36that Mattese Schepp
43:37before jumping
43:38under a train
43:39he gets out of the car,
43:41take the navigator,
43:43he takes it with him
43:44knowing what end
43:45would have done.
43:47He is the navigator.
43:48It doesn't seem like it to you
43:49a sign,
43:50a message
43:51in total madness
43:53that throws
43:54to his wife
43:55and to whom would he have
43:57under investigation
43:57to say
43:58and tell you
43:59I don't do it to you
44:02understand nothing,
44:03I don't give it to you
44:04no signal
44:05but in reality
44:06that navigator
44:08could have
44:09say something
44:11specifically
44:12on the path
44:14Done
44:14in Corsica
44:16and maybe
44:17from the streets
44:19traveled,
44:20from the times
44:21which would be
44:21came out
44:22it could have been
44:24to glimpse
44:25something
44:25that I
44:28I hope
44:29Still
44:29may be
44:30happened
44:31the passage
44:32by hand
44:33of the two little girls
44:34to someone.
44:36Certain,
44:37but it's perfectly
44:38congruent
44:38in my opinion
44:39with what is
44:40the mind of
44:40Mattias Schepp
44:41at that historical moment.
44:42He sent
44:43a postcard
44:43in which he scolded
44:44the wife
44:45of having abandoned him,
44:47gave birth to
44:47the sense of guilt,
44:49then he sent
44:50some money
44:51always for
44:52in my opinion
44:53give that kind
44:54of indication
44:55if it's a woman
44:56attached to money.
44:57In the end
44:57I don't do it to you
44:59understand the tour
45:00what I did,
45:01I condemn you
45:02to a torment
45:03constant
45:04to search
45:04those little girls
45:05at every point
45:06that I touched.
45:07For me
45:08it is dramatically
45:09and cynically
45:13perfectly
45:13in the ropes
45:14of the person
45:15who threw herself
45:15under a train.
45:17There is one thing
45:18which characterizes
45:20this story,
45:21cruelty
45:22that destroys
45:23everything.
45:25even that
45:27That
45:27up to an instant
45:30Before
45:31he dared
45:32call
45:33Love.
45:40it's a hunt
45:42to the treasure
45:43macabre.
45:48Hallucinating
45:48as a situation
45:52because it's all
45:54thought,
45:56studied,
45:57that is, it is not
45:59a moment
46:00of madness.
46:04it was safe
46:06to hit.
46:08He took it away from me
46:09what he does to me
46:11take the children away
46:12to a mother
46:12it's a thing
46:16of a sadism.
46:22so it was safe
46:24to make me suffer.
46:33I have some letters here
46:37which logically
46:38we reproduced
46:38they are not the original ones
46:40but they are exactly
46:41that
46:43That
46:44Mattias Schepp
46:46he wrote
46:47to Irina.
46:56This is dated
46:58February 2nd
47:00of 2011.
47:02Tara Irina
47:04my life first
47:05he was happy
47:06now it remains
47:08just an immense pain
47:09that will tear me apart
47:12until the end
47:13of my days.
47:14I'm committed
47:16I apologized
47:18of my mistakes
47:20now it's no longer there
47:21nothing to do
47:22I'm destroyed
47:23living without you
47:25it's already unbearable
47:27without children
47:28even more
47:29who had said
47:31better a horrible end
47:33what a horror
47:34endless
47:36the drugs
47:38keep writing
47:39Schepp
47:40they didn't help me
47:41there is no solution
47:44we never should have
47:46get married
47:47and bring into the world
47:48of the children
47:48this was
47:50our mistake
47:51bigger
47:53I am sorry
47:54I've tried them all
47:55but it's time
47:57to launch
47:58towards the end
48:00I have always loved you
48:02in good times
48:03and in bad luck
48:05until death
48:06do not separate us
48:08your man
48:09who loves you
48:10Mattias
48:13in this letter
48:14there is something
48:16that catches the eye
48:19in the eyes of a
48:20investigator
48:21of a detective
48:22like her
48:23What?
48:24we're not talking about little girls
48:24if this question
48:26we're not talking about little girls
48:27he probably
48:28has already completed
48:30what he had to do
48:32what he had to do
48:33after this letter
48:35you keep looking for them
48:36these little girls?
48:37we continue to hope
48:38how I think all those people
48:40who listen to us
48:41as I think
48:42let the mother do it
48:43because we never have
48:43the bodies were found
48:44and this
48:44he never did
48:46to put a point
48:47to this story
48:49let's keep hoping
48:51but precisely because
48:52we have hope
48:55we asked
48:57to the police
48:59to recreate
49:01using technologies
49:03more advanced
49:04a current portrait
49:06of how they would be today
49:08Alessia and Lidia
49:10today they would be twenty years old
49:13let's see it
49:18to realize
49:19aging
49:20of the Shepp twins
49:21we left
49:22from the collection
49:23of all the images
49:24available
49:25of the twins
49:26Obviously
49:27but also
49:28from the analysis
49:29some photos
49:29of the mother
49:30and of the father
49:31it's the first time
49:32that we use
49:33a technology
49:34which uses systems
49:36of artificial intelligence
49:37generative
49:37to create faces
49:39that they are
49:40very realistic
49:43our hope
49:44is that this product
49:46which is technologically
49:47as advanced as possible
49:49can give
49:50how to say
49:51a contribution
49:53in case
49:53in which these twins
49:55were
49:56still alive
50:02Irina
50:03the mother
50:03by Alessia and Lidia
50:04she has always fought
50:05and still today
50:06let's fight
50:06at a distance
50:07of many years
50:08Why
50:08it doesn't end
50:09never to search
50:10its
50:11two little girls
50:13Dr. De Gioia
50:16Today
50:17they could be
50:18reopen the investigation
50:20to search
50:21again
50:22maybe with new ones
50:23procedures
50:23investigative
50:25these two
50:26these two little girls
50:27then we have
50:29a fundamental problem
50:30because if we
50:31let's assume
50:31that the little girls
50:32were killed
50:33from the father
50:34that crime
50:36that is, the murder
50:36of his daughters
50:37it became extinct
50:39for the death of the offender
50:40so the only case
50:42in which the investigations
50:43can be reopened
50:44that's it
50:45to hypothesize
50:46that someone
50:47have contributed
50:48with his father
50:49in the killing
50:50of the little girls
50:51Thank you
50:52Dr. De Gioia
50:53at this point
50:54I would like to ask
50:56own
50:56to the doctor
50:57School
50:58some data
51:00regard
51:01the phenomenon
51:02of minors
51:04disappeared
51:05Yes
51:05this data
51:06provides them to us
51:07the extraordinary commissioner
51:08of the government
51:08for missing persons
51:10with regard to
51:11the complaints
51:12of missing minors
51:13in 2023
51:14the main motivation
51:15lies in the distancing
51:16from the institutes
51:17or from the centers
51:18of welcome
51:19if we want to give
51:20but a precise fact
51:21with reference
51:21for example
51:22to the motivation
51:23of the subtraction
51:24as a spouse
51:24or other relative
51:25there are 37
51:26the complaints
51:27presented
51:28in 2023
51:2816 findings
51:30and 21
51:31the missing
51:31still to be searched for
51:32Thank you
51:33Dr. Scola
51:37At that time
51:38Dr. Fabrucini
51:43this
51:44it's the last letter
51:47who writes
51:48Mattia Schepp
51:49to his wife
51:52and it's the only one
51:53in which he appoints
51:55Alessia and Livia
51:57the one with which
51:59he says
52:00his truth
52:01he sends it
52:03to his wife
52:04February 3rd
52:05the day when
52:07he will take his own life
52:08throwing himself
52:10under a train
52:20My dear
52:22I wanted to die
52:23with my daughters
52:24but it didn't go that way
52:28now I will be
52:29the last to die
52:31the little girls
52:33they did not suffer
52:35you will never see them again
52:45the dad
52:47he wrote it
52:47I killed
52:48Alessia and Livia
52:50all efforts
52:51that have been made
52:52from the police
52:53in Switzerland
52:54in France
52:55and in Italy
52:56to try
52:57to find again
52:57a trace
52:58by Alessia and Livia
52:59they were unsuccessful
53:03we have arrived
53:04at one point
53:05Where
53:07we can't
53:08to exclude
53:11the hypothesis
53:13ugliest
53:15which is that
53:16that Mattias
53:17he described
53:18in the letter
53:19that is to say
53:19that he has
53:25Alessia and Livia killed
53:27and hid it
53:28somewhere
53:32with that gesture
53:34last
53:35desperate
53:35under the train
53:36he took it away
53:37I believe
53:38forever
53:39the secrets
53:41of those
53:42three days
53:43of absolute
53:45folly
53:46and cruelty
53:56it's just
53:57the fact
53:57of not having
53:58a place
53:59where to go
53:59to cry
54:01the fact
54:01of not having seen
54:02never
54:03the little girls
54:07death
54:09that's it
54:10That
54:10leaves you
54:11that
54:11sensation
54:13of anguish
54:14of emptiness
54:15existential
54:18crazy
54:18And
54:19I imagine
54:21that she
54:21for a long time
54:24Still
54:24yes it is
54:25even a little bit
54:26cradled
54:26in hope
54:27to see them again
54:29sooner or later
54:29because precisely
54:30there is a lack of certainty
54:32of their end
54:37then at a certain point
54:39he was really at risk
54:41to collapse
54:41if it hadn't been there
54:43the support
54:44of the family
54:45of his parents
54:47above all
54:48I don't think he would have
54:49would have done
54:53I think it was
54:54the father himself
54:55to tell him
54:55don't let him win
54:57him
54:58Mattias
54:58he did all this
55:00own
55:01to push you
55:03to take you away
55:04life
55:04You too
55:05because a mother
55:05can't
55:06survive
55:07to a torment
55:08of the genre
55:08you for this very reason
55:10you don't have to do it
55:11you for this very reason
55:12you don't have to let him win
55:14you have to live
55:15and in this way
55:18Anyway
55:18redemptions too
55:20the life of the two
55:20little girls
55:22which I repeat
55:22we hope
55:23that sooner or later
55:27we can hug again
55:31thank you all
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