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As youths continue to grow in a more connected and complex online environment, are policies keeping up? Meta’s Clara Koh and Farrah Nur Fareena from the Youths IRL Fellowship discuss the shifting conversation on youth safety online.
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00:07Hello and welcome to It's About Youth with me, Fei Kuan.
00:11Youths today are growing up in a more connected and also more complex online environment
00:17where the question is no longer just about access, it's also about protection and whether policies are keeping up.
00:23Now, what should be the priorities when it comes to this conversation on youth online safety
00:29and are we really focusing on the right risks?
00:32Joining me in the studio today is Clara Koh.
00:35She's the Director of Public Policy for Central Southeast Asia and ASEAN at META
00:39as well as Farah Noor-Farina, better known as Farhan, from the Youths IRL Fellowship 2025.
00:46Thank you both of you for joining me today.
00:48Thank you so much for having us here.
00:49It's a pleasure to have you on the show.
00:51Now, Clara, I guess I want to start off this whole conversation firstly with how we're seeing this sort of
00:59increasing scrutiny on tech platforms globally.
01:03So, whether that's court rulings over social media harm or addictive design features.
01:08From your view though, what has really changed when it comes to discussions around youth online safety over the past
01:15year?
01:16I think the first thing I would say is that I've been working at the company now for seven years
01:22and I do see it as a positive development that youth online safety has been elevated on people's minds and
01:30that we're hearing a lot more conversation on it.
01:34I think the second thing I would say is that the conversations are happening across society, right?
01:42It's not just, you know, tech platforms talking about it.
01:45We're hearing it as well from policy makers as you mentioned, parent organizations, young people, you know, as well.
01:55And I think, you know, as part of this conversation, I think there's realization as well that look, I think
02:03it's a complex, you know, topic and we do need to have multiple voices at the table.
02:09And solutions also do involve, you know, collaboration, right across society, a whole society, you know, approach.
02:18And I think thirdly, I would say is that we're seeing that people are also recognizing the adults that we
02:25do need young people, you know, in the conversation, you know, as well and not design things that we assume
02:33are going to be great for them.
02:35So I think inviting them and hearing those voices, we're seeing a lot of that as well.
02:39And that's a really positive thing.
02:42I'd like, I'll talk a little bit more about amplifying youth voices and getting their participation in a little bit.
02:48But you're right, the conversation really has evolved from whether should we regulate to more now?
02:54How should we enforce it and getting youths on board with that?
02:57We also hear a lot online now topics of cyber bullying, grooming and scams.
03:03What would you say, though, are some of the less visible risks that policymakers may be overlooking?
03:09Yeah, so you mentioned quite a few that we hear, you know, very often.
03:13And I think for us, when we are thinking about, you know, designing, you know, our products and our tools
03:19to keep people safe,
03:20it's really important that we're consulting, you know, widely.
03:24And that includes not only, you know, experts, but also, you know, parents and teens themselves.
03:30And, you know, there are going to be a whole lot of, you know, different sort of challenges and harms.
03:37And the key thing also is that these things sort of evolve over time.
03:40But I think overall, we kind of think about safety in three, you know, broad buckets, right?
03:46I think the first is around like content, right?
03:50Making sure that, you know, young people on our platforms are seeing content that is age appropriate, you know, for
03:56them.
03:56The second is contact, right?
04:00And contact here is, you know, in relation to who can interact with teens.
04:06And when we're thinking about protecting them is, you know, thinking very closely about, yeah,
04:11if you're unconnected with this young person, you know, can you actually connect with them?
04:16And I think thirdly is how much time, you know, teens are spending online.
04:21We hear this concern from, you know, parents as well.
04:25So we think about these three sort of, you know, buckets and then build interventions, you know, around these three,
04:33which we think will address quite a few of the things that you mentioned.
04:37And so when we think about these three buckets and what we do for teens,
04:41we've designed and re-imagined the teen experience on Instagram and Facebook.
04:46And what, and this is really called teen accounts.
04:50We rolled it out across the world, including in Malaysia early in 2025.
04:56And what this is, is that anyone who is under 18 on our services will be put into teen accounts.
05:02And I talked about the three things.
05:05So when it comes to content, that means that, you know, teens here will only see content that is appropriate,
05:10you know, for their age.
05:12And then, you know, third, secondly, it's around, you know, who can contact them.
05:17So teens and teen accounts are automatically put into the most restrictive messaging, you know, settings.
05:24This means that if someone is not connected with them, they cannot sort of send them a message.
05:31And I think the other thing as well is that for tags and mentions, you know,
05:37we don't allow that unless you're connected to the teen.
05:40Similarly, teens are automatically put into a private account, which also means that it's harder to find them.
05:46And even if you do find an account, you can't see any of the content,
05:49you can't interact with any of that content, you know, as well.
05:54We finally on the time sort of spent aspect, we make sure that we do 60 minutes time reminders on
06:02a daily sort of basis.
06:04We also have sleep mode, you know, as well to take care of wellbeing and make sure that teens are
06:10also prioritizing sleep.
06:11So I think that there are many sort of challenges out there.
06:15And we have a framework on how we're designing the specialized teen experience to deal with a whole host of,
06:22you know,
06:23these challenges that they may experience.
06:25A lot of interesting features and initiatives there, especially the time limit to really prevent doom scrolling that I think
06:31even adults or older folks can benefit from.
06:33But I like to bring in the expert here now, the youth representative Farin.
06:39Now, you've also had experience co-authoring a policy paper under the Youth's IRL Fellowship.
06:46I'm curious because this fellowship really champions online safety, digital literacy and scam awareness.
06:52But what were some of the urgent gaps that you identified when it comes to online youth safety?
06:58So I think one of the more urgent gaps that my team and I have identified is that while everyone
07:06has, you know,
07:07while everyone right now has equal access to online spaces, to virtual spaces and so on,
07:13like everyone here can make a social media account for, you know, just like with like a click, right?
07:19But at the same time, not everyone is equipped with the knowledge or, you know, the vigilance and virtual etiquette
07:26and so on
07:26that is needed to navigate online spaces.
07:28You know, I feel like, especially after COVID, everyone, there is an oversaturation like of screens,
07:35but a lack of knowledge in handling those screens.
07:38And now, you know, we see kids as young as two years old with their own gadgets.
07:43And I feel like with this, you know, I, it doesn't, it delays their development in the sense like they
07:53will,
07:56like they will straight up throw tantrums, like if they didn't get what they want,
08:02because they're so used to like, you know, like Clara said, like you said, doom scrolling that, you know, like,
08:07And it's very overstimulating as well for a child.
08:10Right, right, right. I mean, like, you know, because of like this high amount of overstimulating content,
08:15children will keep on wanting more and more and more without really any boundaries for them to stop.
08:21And it's not really their fault, you know, because they're kids, what are they supposed to do?
08:25You know, and I think the adults around them as well, they, you know, I don't think that there is
08:33a sort of contribution.
08:35I mean, I think that's a bit unfair to say, but like, I don't think that there, because there is
08:41a lack of knowledge,
08:43I guess, in navigating online spaces, there's just going to be more, this is not, I mean, like this, this
08:52won't change.
08:52This won't change at all. I think this is like, you know, going for the worst.
08:57Okay.
08:58Makes sense.
08:59Right.
08:59Yeah.
09:00Okay. Virtual etiquette is really a buzzword that we're hearing now, but it's essentially that digital literacy, right?
09:06And how do we keep that going and ensuring that everyone is aware and digitally literate, media literate with what
09:14they are consuming online.
09:15And that trails down from parents all the way to the two year olds that you've mentioned, who are glued
09:21to their iPads and their digital devices.
09:24But Clara, I'd like to shift the conversation now, coming back a little bit to Metta's teen accounts.
09:29You mentioned briefly about engaging both parents and youths when it came to designing these features.
09:36Could you elaborate a little bit more? How were youths really involved in these discussions and what sort of insights
09:41really stood out from them?
09:43Were they for, for example, those time restrictions and sleep mode and, you know, not being able to go live
09:50on Instagram, for example?
09:52Yeah. Yeah. I think maybe before I get to that question, you know, I really want to respond with empathy.
09:58I think to the challenge that I think, you know, that you mentioned, right?
10:04There is, you know, sometimes a difficulty in understanding how technology is evolving so quickly and, you know, for parents
10:13and also for young people.
10:16And we know that parenting is very challenging.
10:20And I think what we're trying to do with teen accounts actually is to take that burden away from parents.
10:28Not to say that they don't need to be involved at all, but to, I think, take that burden away
10:32such that, you know, if we know that you're a teen,
10:35you're automatically put into this most restrictive and protective, you know, settings so that your experience is safe by design.
10:44At the same time, we do want to involve parents.
10:47And so we do have a thing called parental supervision, which does allow, you know, a parent to participate in
10:56guiding their teen when they're using, you know, Instagram, for example,
11:00having the ability to understand what they're experiencing on the app and have conversations, you know, with their teen.
11:07Now, when we think about, you know, this pairing that happens, you know, parental supervision and also youth safety, there
11:16is a balance to be struck.
11:18And that is where I think the consultations with parents and teens become really, really important.
11:24And, you know, as META, we have a youth advisory council that we have, that's been in place since 2017.
11:31And we've also partnered together with a third party called TTC Labs to run co-design jams.
11:39We call them co-design jams.
11:41But basically what it is, is that we bring together parents and teens into a room.
11:46We tell them how, you know, the app works.
11:49They tell us, you know, and provide feedback, including things like, hey, I want to see these types of features,
11:56you know, on your platform.
11:59And I think teen accounts is really, teen accounts is a child of that process in the sense that, you
12:05know, we've heard from parents.
12:07But we also hear from teens.
12:09So parents want to get involved.
12:11But teens are also saying that, yeah, I kind of want you to be involved.
12:14But, you know, we still want to have autonomy and we still want to have privacy.
12:20So when you're in teen accounts and under parental supervision, parents are not going to be able to read all
12:26your DMs.
12:28But at the same time, they can see who you've been interacting with.
12:32And that is where a conversation can potentially happen.
12:35So this is one way in which we try to take the, you know, the concerns and desires of parents,
12:41but also trying to hear from and also hearing from youth and what's important for them.
12:46Similarly, on autonomy, the 13 to 18 year old band, like, you know, there's a range of maturity, you know,
12:53in that age group.
12:55And we hear from older teens that they want to, they feel like they're more mature and they also want
13:01to have a little bit more autonomy.
13:03And so what we've done is that even though all are defaulted into the most restrictive settings,
13:09if you're 13 to 15, you can't get out of those settings unless you have a parent to approve it.
13:15But if you are in the age of 16 and 17, we understand that maybe you're more ready.
13:20And if you choose to get out of these more restrictive settings, you can do so.
13:24But your parents who supervise your accounts will know and also gives them an opportunity again to have that conversation
13:30with you.
13:32So here we're really trying to hear, you know, from youth, you know, as well as parents to try and
13:38strike that balance on how we design the product.
13:41It's really such a fine line, right, with that balance.
13:44And I like to hear what Meta is doing to foster these conversations,
13:49because it can be a case by case basis depending on the households, the rules and the relationships between the
13:55parent and their child.
13:57And speaking of autonomy, Farin, what do you think?
14:01Do you feel personally that youth today or young people today are being genuinely heard and included in policy making,
14:08in the design of features such as this on social platforms, or are they still being included just as a
14:15formality?
14:16And what would meaningful participation look like to you?
14:18Yeah, I think there, we might, we are being heard, but at the same time, I'm not denying the fact
14:24that there are events that are just there for formalities.
14:28You know, I've been, I've also had my fair share of events where it's just VIPs all over,
14:34rather than, you know, actually championing the youth voices that they claim to laud, that they claim to celebrate and
14:40so on.
14:40You know, I also want to point out that there are, there are also multiple like youth led movements that
14:48have been gaining momentum,
14:51you know, to further like pursue accountability on these causes that they are fighting for.
14:56So for example, something, you know, one of the youth movements that comes to mind is Liga Mahasiswa,
15:03which is a, I mean, I think it's on the, they are on the news now for questioning the, the
15:11integrity of their own educational like institutions.
15:15At the same time, there's also movements such as Manahutan Kami and make schools a safer place that have been,
15:23you know, making waves, not only in headlines, but also in our legislation as well.
15:28And to get back to your question about meaningful participation, I think ultimately participation,
15:35meaningful participation means that we must, means that community has to be built, right.
15:42And, you know, like minded people will, will have to like foster this community by organizing and mobilizing themselves towards
15:50like an ultimate shared goal.
15:52You know, one thing about youths that I noticed is that there is an inherent fear of putting yourself out
15:58there.
15:58There's an inherent fear of, you know, being cringe, but that's the thing, you know, to change, to enact change,
16:06you first have to go through like, you know, the wall of basically cringe, right.
16:12For you to, you know, for you to actually do change, because if you don't take the first step, then
16:20who will take the first step?
16:21So I think my advice to, you know, younger people, like people in like, you know, youths these days is
16:28that don't, don't be afraid to be cringe.
16:31To be cringe is to be free.
16:32Now I'd like to move a bit to Malaysia's plans to bar under 16s from social media.
16:39The goal, of course, is to protect young people.
16:42But Farid, what do you think?
16:44Do you agree with the blanket ban?
16:46Is it something that's really going to reduce youth exposure to exploitation online?
16:53Or is it going to push them more into different spaces?
16:57I mean, I'll first begin by saying that there has been no clear metric of success from countries that have
17:03enacted similar laws.
17:04So such as the UK and Australia, you know, there has, if not, you know, if not just, instead of
17:13like having nothing, they just,
17:15there are like reports, but they are scarce in the sense that it's really hard to actually look through like
17:22a census or anything.
17:25So if you ask me, like, if I do agree with the blanket ban, no, I don't agree with it.
17:30Because if anything, it's such a drastic, like, it's such a drastic move that's not even being, I mean, being
17:38planned out properly.
17:40Yeah.
17:40And I feel like it's such a, how to say, like, it's such a, it's such a half-baked, I
17:48wouldn't say it's a half-baked plan,
17:49but at the same time, like, there has been no metrics of success.
17:53So how are we, how are we expected to enact these laws when there's not really, you know,
18:00there's not really a clear, a clear measurement of how effective these laws are?
18:07You know, I think like, when it comes to like risk, like, you know, like exploitation and so on,
18:15I really don't think that a blanket ban is going to solve that.
18:18If anything, it will just put a face on the, on the victims involved instead of like the perpetrators.
18:28And I think like, you know, it's, we're already like, you know, the victims are already in a place of,
18:35you know,
18:36they're already vulnerable, they're already being violated and so on.
18:40So I think like with the added ban, with the added ban, not only does it put a target on
18:47them,
18:47but there's no way of them to actually come out with like the, the abuse and so on.
18:53So really with like the, with the blanket ban, I do feel like there's the, the cons really outweigh the
19:02pros,
19:03you know, I feel like it's draconian and it takes from a community that doesn't even have much like in
19:09the first place.
19:11Draconian, that, that really sums up, that's a very powerful word to use.
19:16Clara, what do you think about this?
19:18Yeah.
19:19So I think that, you know, I, I, you know, to answer this question, I kind of want to pull
19:23back the, the lens a bit and say that,
19:25look, I think that when it comes to protecting young people, I think we, we all share that, that goal.
19:33But of course, it's the methodology of going about sort of doing it that really is, you know, up for
19:38discussion.
19:40I think also just to, you know, again, start by saying that, you know, social media is not just about
19:49entertainment.
19:50And I think hearing from Farin as well on why youths, you know, go to social media and saying things
19:58that, you know, we don't have much.
19:59And if you shut this down, you know, it closes off these avenues, you know, for us, young people are,
20:08you know, looking to explore and learn.
20:11They're learning about themselves, their interests.
20:14They're building, you know, their communities around these interests and then building their identities.
20:19I think taking this away, you know, takes away that sort of avenue where that self-exploration and growth, you
20:27know, happens.
20:28The other thing also is the more economic sort of angle where we're in, you know, Malaysia, but in a
20:36region that's extremely vibrant.
20:38We know how, you know, the, the promise of the digital economy and how much that would, Malaysia can stand
20:44to benefit.
20:45I think social media is very much part of that digital economy.
20:50And again, sort of like closing that off to, you know, younger teens means also closing off certain sort of
20:56avenues for, for learning, exploration, even like entrepreneurship.
21:03So then sort of going to, you know, the question, you know, of, of a ban is, I think like
21:09Farin says, we've seen other countries, you know, attempted.
21:15And Malaysia actually has the benefit of not being the first mover because you can kind of see what has
21:21gone before and see, you know, what has happened.
21:25Have there been any unintended consequences?
21:27Has it been effective?
21:30I think the first country that has done it is Australia.
21:33I think you mentioned, you know, that, and in Australia, what we've seen and what we've heard as well from
21:40our partners in the community is by banning social media and just, you know, a small number of social media,
21:48you're seeing a migration of young people to other platforms.
21:52Some of these platforms, you may have only heard for the very first time.
21:56So they're much, you know, they're smaller, they're less known, they may not have the same protections that, you know,
22:03for example, what meta has with like teen accounts in place.
22:07And there are also maybe less visible platforms where you just lose visibility of what kids are, you know, doing
22:13online, who they're talking to and so on and so forth.
22:16And so you may end up in a way in a much more dangerous situation because of this migration, you
22:23know, that we are sort of seeing.
22:25And I think also we're hearing from young youth organizations that for people who found their communities online where it's
22:33harder for them to find it in the real life, there also is that sense of, you know, isolation, you
22:39know, as well.
22:40So I think the Australia ban is ban is still playing out.
22:45And I do think that, you know, in Malaysia, as the government here is thinking about their own approach to
22:51regulation, there is some benefit of maybe taking a pause and looking at some of the lessons that we're learning
22:57there and potentially, you know, considering if there is a different approach that could be, you know, taken here.
23:04And really bearing in mind, I think what you've mentioned, avoiding driving our youth into perhaps potentially more dangerous, less
23:12regulated spaces.
23:14But when it comes to taking a step back then and reassessing how social media regulations should look like far
23:23and what do you think we're still getting wrong when it comes to protecting young people online?
23:27Is there any sort of policy that you think in practice will really truly reflect how youths live and interact
23:35online today?
23:37I mean, ultimately, I don't think what we're still getting wrong is that a ban would solve anything.
23:46I don't, I genuinely don't think that a ban would, you know, we've seen this happen historically before, like there
23:53has been attempts at banning, let's say like things like,
23:57substances like alcohol or cigarettes and so on, but there's always going to be a way to bypass these bans.
24:04Right. And, you know, especially when we talk about something as borderless as the internet, the internet is practically the
24:11Wild West of, you know, of spaces and so on.
24:17So I feel like there has been, you know, there has been multiple, multiple times where events of whenever we
24:26try to implement something like age verification and so on.
24:29We've seen time and time again, youths are getting really creative in bypassing these bans.
24:36So for example, I remember seeing a while back that during the first week of the age verification implementation check
24:45in the UK, if I'm not mistaken, people are using the likeness of celebrities and video game characters to bypass
24:51these bans.
24:52So ultimately, like, I don't think that, you know, there's always going to be a way in, you know, in
25:00essentially like bypassing these bans.
25:02And then also, if we do see it enforced, how, like, how, at what extent to it, to which extent
25:11it is like, it is enforced, because as we can see, like two thirds of Australians, like Australians under 16,
25:20mentioned that, you know, they still have access to their, you know, to their social media accounts.
25:26So frankly, like what, what is being enforced, you know, like, and if, but going back to your question about
25:33like, what would it, about a policy that would truly reflect how youths live and so on, I think a
25:42policy that truly reflects how youths live is one that emphasizes progress over profit and control.
25:50Right. So what I mean by this is that, you know, we, the thing about the internet, like the key
25:59foundation of the internet is, is a place to build communities, we've seen this happen multiple times, especially in the
26:05early days of the internet, you know, we have forums, related to fandoms and so on.
26:10And we have, you know, we have, you know, a space where like-minded people can congregate and bask in
26:15that anonymity. But right now, we're not seeing that because not only digital, not only corporations, because not only corporations,
26:24but governments are also like surveilling activity on the internet.
26:28And I think like, that's really, in a way that hinders progress, right. And I think like, especially in the
26:37context of the under 16 ban, you know, who was consulted with, who was consulted before the ban is, you
26:46know, will finally take place and so on.
26:48Like, because I don't think like, I don't think like this ban benefits anyone. And ultimately, my question is, you
26:58know, who is this ban for?
27:00Because, like I said, the cons outweigh the pros. And ultimately, this is a lose-lose situation, essentially. That's my
27:10answer.
27:10So coming off of that being a lose-lose situation, I wonder then, what's the alternative? Clara, what do you
27:18think effective protection would look like?
27:21You know, is there, do you see a future where perhaps safety is more built on design and education and
27:27open talks that you and Farhan have discussed, rather than just restriction?
27:31Yeah. A lot of what you said is, it's a yes.
27:36So I think that when we, you know, think about a policy, you know, approach to youth safety is, I
27:45think number one is safety by design is going to be important.
27:49But it should not be selective. I think we need to think about applying that same standard across the apps
27:57that young people, you know, are on.
27:59So that there is that consistency and baseline protection across the ecosystem.
28:06It is not effective if only Meta and a few platforms are doing it.
28:10So I think that's the first point, you know, I would make.
28:12I think the second point is around understanding age or age verification.
28:19I think you mentioned it.
28:20It is an important sort of aspect of providing, it's an important aspect for platforms to provide an age appropriate
28:30experience for young people.
28:32But how we do it is also equally as important, right?
28:37I think you talk about things about the importance of privacy.
28:40And I know that there's a lot of conversation around, you know, the best way to do this is for
28:48people to use their, you know, IDs to verify, you know, their age.
28:54I think the concern that we have around that is that, number one, you know, there's no, we've not seen
29:01a single solution that can be foolproof.
29:05You talk about teens being extremely creative.
29:07If they are, a second thing also is that if you think about the research about how on a weekly
29:12basis, a teen uses about 40, you know, apps.
29:16Imagine if all those 40 apps are starting to, you know, collect sensitive private information from young people just to
29:22assess age.
29:23It's just not sustainable and also a privacy risk, right?
29:29Some of those companies may not hold on to the sensitive information in a secure sort of way.
29:37And so then, you know, we need to think, but it's still an important thing that, you know, the ecosystem
29:42needs to do.
29:44And so I think what we're supportive of is to think about going upstream where there is potentially a single
29:50point where understanding age can be done.
29:53And that really is at the device or the app store level.
29:57Well, there's so much more to delve into.
29:59But at the end of the day, it's still a work in progress.
30:01And we have to keep this conversation going to improve it as we go.
30:06But thank you so much to both of you for sharing your insights today.
30:10It's been a pleasure speaking to you.
30:11I've been talking to Clara Koh and Farah Noorfarina.
30:15This has been It's About Youth with me, Faikuan.
30:18Thank you for watching and see you next time.
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