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00:00For Paso, who joins us Wednesdays to talk NFL Draft, Mike Shope here, Bulldog is away, talking
00:07about Jordan Tyson, and is there too much of a Khalil Shakir overlap in how that sounds
00:15to think the Bills might be intrigued?
00:17That seems to be a little bit of a fall for Tyson based on mock drafts I've seen, if he
00:22were to make it to the Bills pick at 26.
00:25I hope they trade down, I think it's obvious they should want to, but it might not be easy
00:28to do it.
00:29But next up on our annual pre-draft special here on WGR and on YouTube is Jeremy White.
00:36And Jeremy, have you talked about these receivers at all on your show?
00:39You know, occasionally it comes up.
00:40Does it?
00:41Callers get through.
00:42Everyone's always wanting to talk about the wide receivers, it seems.
00:46What is the state of play at that position this year versus last year for you?
00:52DJ Moore happened.
00:54Is there less urgency?
00:57Sure.
00:57They made the DJ Moore trade, which was the Amari Cooper trade, but they made it way,
01:04way earlier for a player that they hope has a lot more mileage left, right?
01:08So they made their big veteran trade.
01:10So I think it's less urgency, obviously.
01:13But at the same time, you know, are they counting on Keon Coleman the way they talk they are?
01:20Are they counting on Josh Palmer to be healthy?
01:22Are they counting on Dalton Kincaid to be healthy, right?
01:24They've got a couple of hope this works out kind of scenarios.
01:28And they are still not really in a good spot from that room's standpoint on having somebody cheap that is
01:37going to give them like a really big surplus.
01:39When we got to this offseason, Mike, I thought there were two lessons to be learned.
01:43One, you have to be better.
01:44And two, you should want to be better longer and save money doing it.
01:48And the DJ Moore trade only got you one of those.
01:50You got better, no doubt about that.
01:52But you're not, you know, you're not saving money doing it.
01:55There probably is no doubt.
01:57I think I'd have to say that.
01:58I think Moore is good.
02:00I'll put good above fine because fine sounds to some like an insult and maybe it is one.
02:05So I'll put them at good.
02:07I don't think great, though.
02:09You know, it's the same thing.
02:10It's like, well, put them with Josh Allen.
02:12The excuses made for DJ Moore every year have been, you know, like Allen Robinson used to be, where he
02:17just hasn't had a good enough quarterback to work with.
02:19Well, that changed last year.
02:21And I would have to admit he got some love last season and had some big plays for the Bears.
02:27But he wasn't their like classic number one guy or anything like that.
02:33And, you know, maybe that's not his fault because burden is good and Loveland came to matter.
02:38And, you know, that's how that goes sometime.
02:40I don't know.
02:40So I'm not over the moon about this idea.
02:43I think it's a lot of money.
02:44And here we are coming up on the draft, Jeremy.
02:46And I mean, I don't have a second round pick right now, but I still want one.
02:51Well, I would like to I'm up for a conversation about trading down because I think that the trade down
02:57industrial complex, if I could use that, I think that they should be there.
03:01There should be a split into two.
03:03Do you want to trade down to add picks?
03:06OK, what about the pick slide?
03:07Like, let's talk about the exact same trade the Bills did when and forget about the people in the worthy
03:13and Coleman trade.
03:14You trade down six spots and you move up 20 spots in a later round.
03:20Is that still does that still jive with the whole trading down is always good mindset?
03:27Because I'd like to I'd like to think that if you are a true trade down for picks, for lottery
03:31picks, then it should not be something that that hits the same way.
03:36Well, I think in the terms of the Chiefs trade, they didn't do that well by the numbers.
03:42They did OK.
03:43They basically did closer to a neutral move, which I think that's what you're laying out, that possibility.
03:51And that is probably somewhat a function of that.
03:54They thought the wide receivers available were pretty flat.
03:57So however many they would have been open to at 32, they didn't get to pick worthy by this trade.
04:03They didn't get to pick Ricky Pearsall by the trade.
04:06They didn't want Leggett badly enough to take him and then pushed it to Coleman.
04:10So that was my only my only again, you don't we don't have to stick on this example, but my
04:17complaint about that trade had nothing to do with that.
04:20It was the Chiefs.
04:20It was that they didn't get rich enough by making that trade.
04:25And, you know, that you can't make trades that aren't available to you.
04:29What I didn't like about the second one, as I've said many times, is they had all day Friday to
04:34do it again because there were still half a dozen receivers that people liked about equally.
04:38And I think they were just kind of out of the trading down business at that point.
04:42Well, I guess the point I'm getting at is the trade down idea.
04:45Everyone that loves to trade down to add picks is because you can't beat the draft.
04:49Nobody beats the draft.
04:50There's randomness and thinking that, you know, the player at 21 versus 28 versus 35, who's going to be better?
04:57You don't know.
04:57And I would agree with that.
04:59But I think that teams have kind of wised up to it.
05:01And teams that are trading up now are trading up in double pick swaps.
05:06And basically what you now have is, let's say there are four picks involved in a trade.
05:10Do you think you have a better chance with the first and fourth pick or the second and the third
05:15pick that are moved?
05:16Right?
05:16If the picks are 26, 34, 62, and 91, what are the best two picks?
05:24And why would anybody...
05:25What's the better side?
05:25Why would anybody that is of the belief that you can't beat the draft buy into the idea that, oh,
05:32actually the middle two have more value than the outside two, right?
05:36If I don't know the difference between 28 and 35, why on earth would I think I know the difference
05:41between 91 and 73?
05:43Mm-hmm.
05:44Well, you have what could play into that.
05:47You have position strengths and weaknesses.
05:49Sure.
05:49What are my needs and maybe offensive guard, right, is one possibility for the Bills this year.
05:57But I don't want to do it at 26, even just for optics, for money.
06:01So I'd want to be on the other side of that fence, perhaps, in that trade, depending on what I
06:05want.
06:06Maybe.
06:07I might think, you know, the whole grades thing that I struggle with is I've got so few first-round
06:13grades, but I've got a lot of thirds.
06:15So, okay, I can justify that move from that standpoint as well.
06:20But it's a good question.
06:21I want to think the Bills could trade in a vacuum, trade their one for a two and a three.
06:28Then I'm adding a dart throw.
06:29And that's a day two pick, not a super long shot.
06:32But I don't know if I have a partner, Jeremy.
06:34Like, as I've said a few times today in different conversations, when you're picking at 26, you tend to have
06:39to wait until the draft is underway to see if the other team wants the player that you could pick,
06:46you know, that wants to make the move.
06:47So I can't usually do this kind of thing now, and that's too bad.
06:52But then in general, is that going to be a range where teams are interested?
06:57You know, like we've been in drafts where anybody want this pick and nobody says a word.
07:01And maybe that's what the Bills could face.
07:03Could be.
07:04Have you started to think about the idea of Arizona and Ty Simpson?
07:09Because Brad Spielberger of Pro Football Focus, formerly of Pro Football Focus, had a point about Arizona and whether or
07:16not they should do it.
07:16I love this point.
07:18I think it's worth talking about for the evolution of the draft and the evolution of these contracts.
07:23And if you like to get into the weeds on this stuff, it for a long time has been suggested
07:28that trading into the first round for a quarterback is a good idea
07:30because you get the fifth-year option.
07:32And Brad's point was, if you're Arizona, why trade up?
07:36You won't ever use the fifth-year option on your quarterback.
07:38You almost never do.
07:40If the guy's good, you're going to extend him.
07:43And if he's not good, you're not going to get – you never get to year five.
07:46Even Jordan Love, who sat for two years when drafted by the Packers, he never played in a fifth-year
07:51option.
07:51So, this idea that the Cardinals should be this candidate to move to 26 where the Bills are, I feel
07:57like it'd be a mistake for them.
07:59And now if I'm the Bills, I'm just, you know, am I sliding two picks, three picks, four picks to
08:03add something in the later rounds?
08:05Maybe that could work.
08:06I also tend to think that the trade-down idea – not that I'm against it, but I like making
08:11the case against it just because I feel like everybody's so in love with it
08:15that you get credit just for doing it, regardless of your results.
08:19And I think part of the reason that people fall in love with it is because we've had three months
08:23to think about 14 different players they could take at 26.
08:27And when they come on the clock at 26, how many of those players are you going to see?
08:30Ten of them?
08:31So, you're going to think, well, all these guys are good.
08:33They're all totally worth this 26 pick.
08:36So, drop down five spots, and I'll still get any one of them.
08:39But, of course, like the results are what matter.
08:41And I think you can make the case that the Bills are maybe one or two moves away from –
08:46had they moved up at a different time in a different year, it might have been better off than dropping
08:51down
08:51and getting additional picks and additional players that haven't made a difference.
08:55I appreciate the effort when it comes to trading down.
08:58It's one of those where if your Twitter is like mine, everybody will advocate for it.
09:03Everybody.
09:04But then you'll turn on the draft itself, and nobody will.
09:09Mel, at the – you know, whoever it is, Mel or whoever it is, you're watching at the draft,
09:13oh, you had to go get this guy.
09:15The way teams talk.
09:16You know, the shows themselves will talk the way teams talk about why they traded up.
09:21You know, somebody has to want to do that.
09:23What is your favorite idea, if there is one, that is not a receiver at 26?
09:28What's the best idea?
09:30Speedy, bendy, pass rusher.
09:32And there are a couple names here.
09:33The guy lately that I've, you know, been keyed on by, whether it's Chris Trapasso or Joe Marino,
09:40Malachi Lawrence, UCF, like, offers a lot of that stuff.
09:45Cassius Howell.
09:46I don't know what to think of what this defense is going to look like.
09:50And while nose tackle could be it, somebody that's in the middle, that could be it,
09:54I'm of the belief that if you can get one of those guys that makes a big difference, great.
09:58But they do move around a lot.
10:00And, you know, there's some guys on the free agent market you can get.
10:03I mentioned, like, DJ Reader here, who will just sign somewhere for $3 million to $5 million.
10:09Like, a solid veteran starting guy at that position goes for, like, you know, $3 million to $7 million.
10:15And other positions, that same guy goes for $12 million.
10:19So, the guys that stick in the league for a long time, they tend to be kind of cheap.
10:22You can find bodies to plug in there.
10:24The Bills used to kind of operate with the idea that they could get by with some plug-and-play
10:30guys throughout their team.
10:32And they still do.
10:33Like, guard used to be this for a while before the last couple seasons when they had some guys locked
10:37in there.
10:37So, I think edge rusher.
10:39I think I'd be shooting for the moon.
10:41Somebody that goes at the end of the first round that can be their DPR, designated pass rusher, seems to
10:47be like a buzz phrase around now.
10:49And I'll take it.
10:52If the whole, for years we've been talking about how they can't get off the field on third down against
10:57a Mahomes or a Burrow or a Bo Nix,
10:59we could talk about stopping the run until we're blue in the face.
11:02They do not lose games in the playoffs because they can't stop the run.
11:06It doesn't happen.
11:07The thing that happens is they don't get to the quarterback.
11:10So, these games in fourth quarters turn into shootouts because you have Josh Allen.
11:15And if there's a designated pass rusher and you won't play every down, I don't care.
11:20Give me the guy that's what they thought Von Miller was going to be without the $120 million contract.
11:25I know that's hard to find.
11:26He's a Hall of Famer.
11:27But I'd be shooting for that model.
11:29Somebody that does exactly that is exactly what I want this defense to probably get.
11:33Works for me.
11:34Talked about this with Sal earlier.
11:35I hope their stop-the-run messaging is just what they think people want to hear.
11:43It's going to be a different defense with a lot of new players and a new coach.
11:47But totally.
11:49Not that it never really was sneaky.
11:52But in certain conversations it would seem sneaky to say,
11:56well, actually their pass defense is great and their defense is good or great and there you go.
12:02There's pretty much the whole formula.
12:04All right.
12:05Thanks for staying up late.
12:07Yeah.
12:09Any questions for me?
12:10When is the Sabres game?
12:12Sunday at 7.
12:13You think it's 7?
12:14It's 7 or 1, right?
12:15Are we at 7 or 1?
12:17But mostly 7?
12:18I am.
12:19But I'm tired of guessing and having it move on me.
12:23Is it an ESPN game?
12:24If it's an ESPN game, it's 7.
12:25Yes.
12:26On Sunday.
12:26Well, we have this announcer who says he's going to be here for it.
12:28Who said he's coming to cover the game and the Celtics play at 1.
12:33Would they cross over the Celtics and the Bruins at the same time?
12:35I had somebody point out to me that the Nuggets and the Avalanche played in the same day and both
12:41were maybe game 7.
12:42But that's not a game 1 you're designing the schedule situation, right?
12:46That's like, oh, unfortunately both made it this far.
12:49The fact that it's not Saturday is weird.
12:52It's unfortunate.
12:54The Celtics are why.
12:55The Celtics also play Tuesday night.
12:58When's game 2?
13:00Tuesday.
13:00I know it's not the end-all be-all like you're saying or be-all end-all, but I don't
13:05know.
13:06I think there probably was some real difficulty by, you know, the last couple of days with TV.
13:15And it's kind of baffling how that would be possible.
13:18I think I've seen also that Philadelphia has big-time arena complications for games 3 and 4 in that series.
13:26Same basketball series, right?
13:27Celtics and Sixers, and Philadelphia will be home next weekend.
13:31And that would be the Flyers, too, because they're on the road.
13:35That's the building, different from this Boston point.
13:39Very good.
13:39Thanks, Jer.
13:40Thanks, Mike.
13:41Jeremy White joining us for our annual NFL pre-draft special presented by your Upstate Honda dealers.
13:47For great deals, visit your local Upstate Honda dealer today.
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