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00:00Pre-draft special here on WGR and on YouTube, presented by your Upstate Honda dealers.
00:06For great deals, visit your local Upstate Honda dealer today.
00:10I'm Mike Shope. Bulldog is not with us, but who is with us is Sneaky Joe.
00:16Forced into action. Yes. A sense of duty and loyalty. Yes.
00:20In studio at that. Yeah, why not?
00:23I would enjoy their show if it weren't so early.
00:27I'm sure I would like it.
00:28I mean, you've got to be in by the 9 o'clock hour, right? You've got to be up by
00:31then.
00:32What happens to me, it's embarrassing, all right? But I'm up 6 to 7.
00:37Then you go back to sleep? Yes. Not every day, I want to say.
00:41So you're missing the meat of the show in the middle. I guess so.
00:44Yeah. Well, at least 6 o'clock, though. No excuses.
00:48No. You're not a guy to stay up? You know what?
00:52What's your up? Stay up? That can't be good to be breaking up sleep like that.
00:56Oh, I'm sure you're right. I'm sure you're right.
00:59It can't be good. But staying up doesn't feel great either.
01:02Yeah.
01:02It's that I get texts from you, like today.
01:05Yeah.
01:05In the 6 o'clock hour.
01:07Yes.
01:07And that did keep me up.
01:09Okay. Well, you didn't respond from like 7 to 8, so I thought, you know.
01:13There it is.
01:13Yeah, that could have been that.
01:14I mean, you're really, you're halfway to, what did Kramer do?
01:17Like 20-minute nap segments, like 20 times a day instead of ever going to sleep?
01:22Oh, God.
01:22Just go that. Pull that off.
01:25I'm in trouble because I make every excuse for, like, staying up late.
01:30Uh-huh.
01:31Football was my excuse, right?
01:32Oh, and fantasy.
01:33Every football game.
01:34I got to see every fantasy. I got to stay.
01:36Every football game. The football ends.
01:37Niners-Cardinals. It's a 20-point game, but I got to stay up to see if this guy gets four
01:41more points.
01:42It's not even like I feel like I'm being forced to. I just want to.
01:45Yeah, right.
01:46And then there's a wind-down time, and then it's one.
01:48Right.
01:49And then football ends, and I make up some other excuse.
01:51Now the playoffs, and the Sabres are in it, I'm in trouble.
01:54I mean, I'll be up. I'll watch the late games now.
01:57Oh, I know. That's going to be, man, especially for me, like the 10 o'clock, maybe not even that.
02:03I mean, you're going to get 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock starts that are going into double and triple
02:07overtime that don't involve the Sabres.
02:09Like, am I going to stay up until midnight for whatever, Flyers and Penguins, who you're not going to see
02:14to the conference finals anyway?
02:15But they're in double overtime, and it's 11 o'clock.
02:18I mean, it's going to happen. It could happen to the Sabres, too.
02:21I worked 5 to 9 a.m. shifts when the Sabres were in the finals in 99.
02:26Okay, so Game 6 would have been.
02:28I was at Game 6. It was a Saturday, at least.
02:31Oh, okay. You're good then.
02:32I don't know how I did it, because I loved it. I mean, who doesn't?
02:36Right.
02:36Staying up late for those games.
02:38Definitely.
02:38It was still kind of new then to have access to late-night games, you know?
02:42Like, really, that wasn't always true growing up.
02:45Some of those, in the 80s, you didn't get to watch the Kings, unless they were playing Edmonton, maybe.
02:50Yeah, if you were going to get a hockey night in Canada, basically, then that would be it.
02:53Yeah, that was the only way.
02:55So by then, like, oh, this is the best. I can watch all these games. I'm going to do it.
02:58I don't know how I managed to get up at 4 or 15 in the morning the next day.
03:02Adrenaline. Pure adrenaline.
03:03Must be.
03:04Well, to force in a segue, thinking about your show in the morning and your interaction with Bills fans,
03:10how much adrenaline do you have for this draft?
03:12To me, it's waned.
03:15Yeah, it feels forced, almost. Forced adrenaline.
03:19That's not to say I'm not interested in it, just how much is this also the Sabres?
03:24The juice that you'd have for this draft is you only get so much fan-with that's being paid attention
03:31to the other side.
03:32And I also don't think it's...
03:33Fan-with.
03:33Fan-with, yeah.
03:34Listen to that.
03:35I don't think it's helping that this draft is not being portrayed as a typically...
03:41or as an interesting draft anyway, or a deep draft.
03:44Didn't Scott Barrett say it's, like, the worst draft?
03:47You say, like, as bad as you think it is, it's worse?
03:49Yes.
03:49Yeah, like, it is not really the draft to be super excited about.
03:55I'm still very interested in the receiver position, as typically you would be, running back early on in the draft.
04:02That doesn't really pertain to the Bills.
04:04I think you still do have the storylines, but I think they're not really being an interesting quarterback debate.
04:09I'm not really into the Ty Simpson, you know, how high is he going to go part of this.
04:15I mean, unless a team's going to come up, trade into the first round, that could be interesting.
04:18Right, you might not be into him, but that possibility right there could be worth watching and thinking about next
04:25Thursday night.
04:25Yeah, I mean, and that could be 26, easily.
04:28The Cardinals or whoever, I mean, the Dolphins, you could pick a couple teams early in that top 10 to
04:33move up.
04:34By the way, does it interest you at all that these kinds of trades maneuvering around the draft don't start
04:42happening, like, yet?
04:44I think for the Bills pick, I said this to Sal an hour ago, that you kind of, with teams
04:49that pick later, they tend to want to see what's happened.
04:53And maybe there's somebody, we'd trade up if X, and you can't know that yet.
04:58But it might be, you might get a better price if you're, say, Arizona making a trade like that now.
05:04Because you'd be taking on risk of, like, why am I doing it?
05:07Am I doing it for Ty Simpson?
05:08I'm taking on risk that he's, I'm going to make this trade, and he's not going to be there.
05:13And you're also showing your cards.
05:14No pun intended.
05:15Yes, you are.
05:16Right, you're telling anybody else that might want Ty Simpson, how high do I have to go?
05:23If you're a team X that might want him, you don't know what that answer is right now.
05:28The Cardinals, by trading right now, would give you the answer.
05:31Okay, I've got to go, they traded to 26, I've got to get to 25.
05:34I know the answer to the test now.
05:36And I also think that's part of, you know, you might not like this.
05:40Like, I don't think teams really ever trade down or trade up as a rule.
05:44They're all doing it because they have an opinion on players.
05:48And for that, you're not going to ever get these trades until draft night.
05:52Unless it's really early.
05:54Right, like the Jets did it.
05:55They traded up to three in 2018, what, a month before?
05:59But that would be because they had enough.
06:01There's only so many picks they have to predict to go up to three.
06:04Was that Indianapolis?
06:06Yes.
06:07Like Zach Wilson?
06:08No, that's Darnold.
06:10Oh.
06:11Right?
06:11Remember, that's weeks before the draft that they moved to three.
06:14That was Darnold.
06:15Yeah, that was for Darnold.
06:16Sure.
06:17You know, one thing I read, too, this week was, it was a Peter Schrager tweet
06:23referencing something a GM told him that, watch, this year positional values are out the window.
06:28I don't understand the logic there.
06:30If that's because the draft isn't as good, shouldn't it matter more?
06:36The logic for me is, well, I don't have as many ideas that I like.
06:41So I need to understand that, all right, if I need an edge rusher, maybe he's not as good
06:47a prospect as he might have been two years ago or something, but I still need it.
06:51I feel like that's backwards.
06:53But when I hear it right away, it sounds to me like, well, you've got to have an elite
07:01player at the non-valuable positions to make that case.
07:05Because I would see that as, okay, I'm defending the idea of drafting a running back in the
07:10top five because I don't think there's an elite edge rusher available.
07:14I don't think there's an elite receiver, an elite left tackle that's available at a position
07:18that is paid higher and you're getting way more savings if you hit on that pick on a rookie
07:23contract versus a running back or a tight end or a safety would probably qualify as this
07:30as well.
07:31Well, that guy is going to be one of the best in the league.
07:36Jeremiah Love is going to be one of the five best running backs in football.
07:39And I don't think any of these edge rushers are going to be like top 25 at their position.
07:43You would have to really believe, I think there's a huge talent disparity.
07:47Could you defend that?
07:48If Brandon Bean, say, randomly, hypothetically, called your show the morning after the draft and
07:55told you that, you know, we just didn't think, I'm not sure he would ever be quite this
07:59blunt, maybe, but we didn't like any of the other players at these, you know, considered
08:03more premium positions.
08:05So we did this instead.
08:07I don't know.
08:08I'd blast him for that.
08:09Yeah.
08:10I, I, I, I still think the cap part of it and the savings part of it, especially with
08:17running back.
08:18I mean, not that the bills are in that market, but you're not saving anything.
08:21The second you do that tight end, you're not really saving almost anything.
08:25When you do that, the guys that are at the top end or even the second tier of those
08:29positions are not that different than what the, the high end rookie would be making that
08:33you're picking in the first round versus this is the whole, you know, receiver conversation
08:37in the first place.
08:38I'm drafting one because I'm giving him a couple million dollars and the best ones in
08:42the league cost 40.
08:43That's that drusher too.
08:44That's left tackle.
08:45So I, I'm with you.
08:47Like, I think that the positional value, the market at those positions, the importance of
08:52it should matter a lot.
08:54Like there, everyone's playing a game and I think the draft has become as much about
08:59get the best player available is save the most money that you could save because everybody's
09:03spending to the cap.
09:04And if the running backs or the tight end is better than the receiver or the edge rusher,
09:09that doesn't mean I'm actually saving more money by hitting on that pick though.
09:13I'll tell you another one, by the way, that I don't really get these terms that get thrown
09:19around around the draft teams having whatever number of first round grades.
09:24That's less than 32.
09:25Yeah.
09:26And it's always less than 32.
09:27It's always less than 32.
09:29It's never been as many as 32 to his knowledge since covering the bills.
09:33Why wouldn't it always be 32?
09:35All right.
09:36Exactly.
09:36Should we be redefining what a first round grade is if it never is 32?
09:41I understand the point that you're comparing to other years, right?
09:47So a first round pick for you is this and I don't have as many of them this year, but
09:53so what?
09:54I mean, I guess it applies if you are moving out because there aren't I last year I had
10:0025 first round grades.
10:01This year I have 15.
10:02So I'm more I have higher incentive to trade if the other guy does, you know, does
10:06to whatever.
10:07But I feel like there should be 32 players.
10:10My top 32 are first round grades necessarily.
10:13Or at the least you'd want it so that it averages out to 32 over the course.
10:17Of a few years, right?
10:18I wouldn't mind if you said this year, Hey, this year I've only got 23 first round
10:24grades, but the next year you come back to me and say you had 45 like, all right, I'm
10:29I'm averaging something around what the first round is.
10:32Maybe they just need to lower their standard.
10:35That's it.
10:36Just lower your definition for what a first round grade is.
10:39That's it.
10:40Did Coleman have a first round grade?
10:41If they had picked him at 32.
10:42No, because they traded down, I'm sure.
10:44If they had, well, if they had picked him at 32, Carolina doesn't want to deal.
10:50Then we would have probably found out that he did.
10:53If they, wait, one more time.
10:55If they had moved down.
10:56If they had picked him at 32.
10:56Oh, I see.
10:56They already moved to 32.
10:58One trade instead of two.
10:59Yeah.
11:00Then maybe they wouldn't have just, maybe they would have dodged the question.
11:02Well, unless again, if you only had 10 first round grades by then, maybe he up second round
11:07grade to third round grade.
11:08We're into already by the end of round one.
11:09Getting convoluted.
11:11That's definitely my fault.
11:12Is it Casey Concepcion or bust for you, for your show in terms of receivers?
11:20I don't know.
11:20Not, not or bust.
11:21Sorry.
11:22Or pass for the receiver position in round one.
11:26I, I am not treating it as he's going to be there.
11:29I mean, I guess it's the draft and you know, it's a crapshoot.
11:33You don't know who's going to like who, but why is he falling to 26?
11:37Can someone explain to me how that's happening?
11:39Everyone seems to love the guy, like the personality, the, the, how he talked about his stuttering
11:46at the draft.
11:47Everybody loved that.
11:48This letter today to general managers, everywhere you look, you watch the film or the numbers.
11:52He's the best separator in the draft.
11:55He runs amazing routes.
11:56He can play all over the place.
11:58Am I, am I really to believe that his drop problem is so bad that he's going to be the
12:02fifth receiver taken just because of that?
12:05Like, I just, I can't understand why he's falling to the bills.
12:09So I guess I'm not really thinking about them picking him a lot.
12:13I, the one thing I would say though about receiver is aren't there five guys that all feel
12:20like they should go before the bills and what are the odds that all of them are going to
12:25be taken?
12:26Because I don't think they're that good.
12:28Any of them?
12:29The odds.
12:29The, oh, the odds that I think the bills that one of them, I would say, yes, I would say
12:34from looking at mock drafts, I'm not doing my own independent research on these players.
12:40Need I say so?
12:41I would say the odds of the bills being able to draft wide receiver five.
12:45Yeah.
12:46At pick 26 are greater than 50, 50.
12:49Yes.
12:49That's how, that's how I feel about it too.
12:51That one of, and I don't know who it would, it will not be Carnell Tate.
12:54I think everyone's pretty much on board that it wouldn't be him, but couldn't it be any
12:58of the next four?
12:59And I guess, am I being offensive to Denzel Boston by not including him?
13:03But for this, I'm not.
13:04Jordan Tyson, Makai Lemon, Omar Cooper, and KC Concepcion.
13:09One of them, or all of those guys are gone?
13:12Like, I'm with you.
13:13Like, any mock draft I see, it feels like one of them at least is there.
13:17So, that doesn't mean they'll pick them, but I think the bills will be tested.
13:20I think they'll really be tested on that position.
13:23That doesn't sound like the trade down position to me.
13:25Like, that might be edge rusher, that might be linebacker, where there's this big group
13:31and, you know, the difference between 26 and 40 or 50 is not that big at that position.
13:37Whereas, I don't know, receiver kind of feels like you're approaching on a tier break right
13:41around where the bills are picking.
13:42Sneaky Joe is here.
13:44It's our NFL pre-draft special.
13:45I'm Mike Shope.
13:46Bulldog is off until Tuesday.
13:48Jeremy White will join me at 5.30 to talk some more draft.
13:53How good do you think Fernando Mendoza is?
13:56How good was Derek Carr?
13:59How good was Derek Carr?
14:00Well, that's a question I could spend a little bit of time on.
14:02How good was Derek Carr?
14:04Was he good?
14:05He was good, right?
14:05He was good.
14:07He was good.
14:08I would say he was good, and I want, like, a little bit of a question mark when I say
14:11that.
14:11Good-ish.
14:12I think he'll be a good quarterback.
14:15He seems to have all the tools.
14:18I don't think anything that is crazy, right?
14:21Like, he doesn't have all-world arm strength or athleticism or size, but it just kind of
14:27feels like he checks every one of these boxes.
14:30I guess the problem might be he's going to a team that I don't know how much I really want
14:35to trust them for getting it right.
14:36I mean, how bad's Geno Smith?
14:38I think Geno Smith's pretty good.
14:40And he went there, and it was a total disaster because they just had no infrastructure around
14:45him.
14:45So, I don't know if he's set up to succeed, but if he got to the right environment and
14:52the Raiders can figure it out, I think he'll, yeah, he'll be a pretty good quarterback.
14:56He'll be Derek Carr.
14:57He'll be Bo Nix.
14:59Like, he'll be a guy that's good, but I'm not going to be terrified of if I ever play him
15:02in a playoff game.
15:03That'd be my guess, but you do see those caliber of players in playoff games and win
15:08them and sometimes win them.
15:10That's right.
15:11I could hear.
15:12He would be a guy.
15:13I would bet that you'd see in the playoffs and it would be annoying if Josh Allen lost
15:18to him in a playoff game.
15:19Well, when has that ever happened?
15:21Lost to a quarterback that it was annoying.
15:23They lost annoying.
15:24Yeah.
15:25Not every one of these, but this one, no, this last one.
15:27Yeah.
15:28Yeah.
15:29It's a new everything though.
15:31Vegas.
15:32Yeah.
15:33Yeah.
15:34You give me the number one overall pick.
15:37Everybody's number one overall pick.
15:38Yeah.
15:39Well, maybe not Dan Orlowski.
15:41Almost everybody's.
15:4299.9.
15:43Number one pick.
15:44I've got.
15:45Is he a top five running back?
15:47Not everybody.
15:48Not more than five can be top five running backs.
15:51And Jensie did not have a good rookie year, but still.
15:53No.
15:54I've got the best tight end in the league.
15:56Yep.
15:56Maybe I can.
15:57Kubiak will be a big test here.
16:00Maybe I can score.
16:01Yeah.
16:01Yeah.
16:01It could be good.
16:03It's one of those franchises that I just, I really need to see it before.
16:07Raiders, Jets, and Browns.
16:09You got to show me before I'm willing to buy in that you're going to have the answers.
16:14Like those are franchises.
16:15I got to see it before I'm willing to believe in you.
16:16That's where we're different.
16:17Because I'm always expecting the Jets to be good.
16:19And maybe the Browns.
16:20But you are the only one I ever hear that's expecting the Jets to be good.
16:24I know.
16:24I'm doing it again.
16:26What?
16:27This year?
16:27Yes.
16:28This year?
16:29Why?
16:29Because Gino Smith?
16:30Gino Smith, who you've said your love for him already.
16:33You've mentioned that already.
16:34I know.
16:34I've got a top five running back in briefs.
16:36Who, I mean, come on.
16:37The running, if the running back is the second thing out of your mouth about why a team's
16:41going to be good, that team's not going to be good.
16:43Well, okay.
16:44I didn't mean to rank him.
16:46No, I know.
16:46I don't like that.
16:47Garrett Wilson.
16:48Yeah.
16:49Mason Taylor.
16:50I mean, this is kind of some version of this for me with the Chargers.
16:54I will buy in every year, and in every year, they will let you down.
16:57And this year, I'm probably going to have to let myself do that over the next four months, too.
17:03Joe, you're one of my top fantasy buddies.
17:05Yep.
17:07It's likewise, this draft.
17:09Maybe not as bad.
17:11With fantasy in mind, one running back in the first round, probably.
17:15That's not unusual.
17:16One quarterback.
17:18Yeah.
17:18Not hugely relevant for most fantasy formats, but okay.
17:22And these wide receivers, and we've had a few years of this, where you've got a half
17:25a dozen or so options there.
17:27What, without, you know, showing me, necessarily, your hand.
17:32Slopescreen.
17:32What do you think rookie drafts will start?
17:35I mean, I think I have one next Sunday.
17:37Yeah.
17:38I think the most interesting thing will be when's the second running back get picked, and where
17:42does he get picked?
17:42Because in a rookie draft, like, right now, of course, Jeremiah Love is going to be, like,
17:48either the number one pick or at least second.
17:50Like, depends on maybe on your format, but he's going to go at the top.
17:53And then all those receivers, they should go high enough to where Lemon, Tyson, Tate,
18:00Cooper, Concepcion, Boston.
18:01Like, those guys are going to be interesting, at least.
18:04I think the tight end is going to be highly picked, right?
18:08Almost no matter what, like, people will get excited about him.
18:11He's really fast, right?
18:12Sadiq.
18:13Sadiq.
18:13Kenyon Sadiq from Oregon.
18:15I mean, if he went to, like, Mike McDaniel, like, there are teams where that could be really
18:18exciting.
18:19But I don't know what you're going to do with the second running back.
18:22And it's going to depend on destination and also how late does the guy go?
18:27I mean, is the next running back picked the other Notre Dame guy?
18:30Maybe.
18:30Like, no one ever really saw play in college that much because he was behind Jeremiah Love.
18:36And if he's a third-round pick to a team that has a guy who's kind of established but
18:42maybe not fully established, like, I think that's going to be the position where someone's
18:47going to have to make a call.
18:49And, all right, I'm buying in.
18:50I'm buying in on this third-round running back that may or may not take over the job on
18:54his team.
18:55I don't know numbers here, but it seems that there aren't as many teams that have obvious
18:59openings this year.
19:01Like, last year, as bad as they might have been expected to be, the Browns stood out
19:06as, well, Nick Chubb aged out and they have Jerome Ford.
19:10But whoever they pick could be exciting.
19:13And what do they do?
19:14They pick two guys.
19:15Just like they did quarterback, actually.
19:17But Judkins and Dylan Sampson, right?
19:19Yep.
19:21And, you know, Judkins got hurt.
19:22But that was starting to hum when he got hurt against the Bills.
19:25Yeah, it was looking really good.
19:26Like, if Jadarian Price went with an early third-round pick to the Bengals, how interesting
19:34is he?
19:34Like, that team's got a guy, but not, like, a guy.
19:38That's a really tough hypothetical.
19:40Yeah.
19:41I think for Dynasty, like a rookie draft fantasy we're talking about, he's live.
19:46Because Chase Brown is how good?
19:48Exactly.
19:49I think he'd be live.
19:50That's why I think, like, that's going to be, to the eye of the beholder, like, how
19:54much are you willing to bet that the second, third, fourth rookie running back taken is
20:00going to unseat a guy, like, of a Chase Brown caliber.
20:03Right.
20:03And there'll be a couple of those.
20:04But, you know, in best ball for this year, it'd be a tough bet.
20:08Yeah.
20:09Yeah.
20:09There are teams where you really...
20:10What would be the most...
20:11I mean, really, because there are teams that are going to be too far back to go Jeremiah
20:15Love.
20:16Like, Minnesota's not picking Jeremiah Love.
20:18But if Minnesota takes a third-round running back, like, that could be hot.
20:21And there would be a couple of teams like that.
20:22That's a good example.
20:23I mean, Tennessee, if Tennessee doesn't take Love, then they could be this team, too, on
20:30day two.
20:31Yeah.
20:31And, all right, well, what does that mean?
20:33Tony Pollard, like, what is the plan there?
20:36Because teams tend to want to, mostly want to go slow with those running backs, unless
20:41they pick them early.
20:42But even then, B. John Robinson, what happened?
20:45He split carries.
20:46Yeah, lost a lot of touchdowns over a couple of years.
20:48Top 10 pick, he split carries, like, down the middle as a rookie.
20:53So, yeah, it's precarious.
20:55All right, the Sabres, of course.
20:58Joe, I know you're excited about that.
20:59Nice hat.
21:01Yeah, I've laid down my sword.
21:03Sabes is fine.
21:04It's in my vocabulary now.
21:06Sabes?
21:06Sabes.
21:08I fought against it for a while.
21:09And you're okay with it?
21:10When's the first time you heard Sabes?
21:12You can live with yourself?
21:12Yeah.
21:13Oh, I don't know.
21:14Not that recently.
21:15Okay.
21:1620 years ago?
21:17No.
21:18Not the 80s.
21:19We were walking around in the 83 playoffs talking about Sabes?
21:23No.
21:24I don't think I ever did until much later than that.
21:27I went to a playoff game in 84.
21:30Okay.
21:30We got killed.
21:31Against.
21:32Quebec.
21:336-2.
21:34Game 2.
21:34Best of 5.
21:35Great season.
21:36You rank those Sabres seasons by points.
21:3884 is a 100-point season, I think.
21:41And they went out in three.
21:44Three games, you're done.
21:46Right.
21:46Four days, I believe.
21:47Because they played back-to-back.
21:48Is that 1-16?
21:50No.
21:51Adams Division.
21:51Adam.
21:52So it's post 1-16?
21:54Yes.
21:54Okay.
21:55Two versus three, Adams Division.
21:57Sabres home.
21:58Lose, lose, lose.
21:59That's it.
21:59And it was probably in four days.
22:00Because they did play back-to-back then.
22:02Okay.
22:03Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday, you're done.
22:05Wow.
22:05Like baseball.
22:07Yeah.
22:07They do not do that anymore.
22:09That's over.
22:10Thanks for coming in.
22:11Yeah, of course.
22:12Sneaky Joe.
22:13Our pre-draft special continues.
22:15Jeremy White will be along next.
22:17In Western New York, we get to the game no matter what.
22:19That means an all-wheel drive SUV you can count on.
22:22That means Honda.
22:23Right now, your upstate Honda dealer has outstanding deals on Honda's all-star lineup,
22:27including MVPs such as CRV, HRV, and the Honda Pilot.
22:32And right here, right now, there's never been a better time to get a great deal
22:35on an award-winning Honda SUV.
22:37For deals and details, visit upstate.hondadealers.com today.
22:42Okay.
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