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00:01So, if you just leave it to this season, you've got to be excited about the Cavs' chances.
00:05I want Lyman to read something to you. Do you have it up in front of you?
00:07I want Lyman to read something to you, and I know what I want to do at 6-24 now.
00:14I've thought about this for a long time, and I'm going to do that at 7 o'clock.
00:17I know what I want to do at 6-24.
00:20As always, I think I'm going to have to defend some people giving some side-eye to me
00:24because I asked a pertinent question to somebody, and I didn't expect you to know,
00:28and I'm not going to hammer you for it, Tone, but I think I'm going to get a side-eye
00:33when I explain myself at what I want to do at 24 especially.
00:35So, Tone, I want you to read this post by Matt Moore.
00:40We've had him on the show. I think Action Network now with CBS a long time.
00:45Go ahead and read this.
00:46He said, the best thing we can do as an online community with NBA fans
00:50is normalize the idea that non-title success matters.
00:54Making a Final Four is a real accomplishment.
00:57Winning 60 games is awesome, no matter how the playoffs turn out.
01:00Winning 50 games is a good season.
01:02Making the second round is a playoff success.
01:08So, I've thought a lot about this, especially when it comes to the Cavs,
01:12who have the highest payroll.
01:14They are in the second apron.
01:16They have $60-plus million in terms of a tax.
01:19Obviously, when you push as many chips in as you can,
01:24and I could go through in the league and talk about the teams that have real,
01:29real expectations, and the Cavs are certainly one of those teams.
01:34I've thought about a lot as a sports fan as I've gotten older,
01:38because I used to crush tweets like that and say loser mentality
01:43and say that you just don't want to have your feelings hurt.
01:48You don't want to leave the season as so many teams' fan bases do.
01:52Everyone but one leaves frustrated and disappointed.
01:56Yeah.
01:57Except, you know, those plucky young teams.
01:59Like, the LeBron team that went to the finals in 2007,
02:03that's an all-time successful year.
02:05It ended in, I was going to say embarrassment,
02:09but truth be told, I wasn't embarrassed.
02:12Like, we had no business being there.
02:13The fact that we got to the finals with that team,
02:15that LeBron was able to put the team on his shoulders.
02:18Okay, there are the exceptions.
02:19There is that team where everybody with working eyeballs
02:23can look at a situation and say,
02:25yeah, that's a great season.
02:27That team getting to the finals was awesome.
02:30You know, we also have the capability of understanding that
02:32in, like, 2017 and 2018.
02:35We had championship aspirations.
02:37We weren't as good as a team with Kevin Durant.
02:40And we had a malaise in the regular seasons
02:43because we had already won the championship.
02:44So you can frame each season a certain way with,
02:48like you said, you used the term nuance.
02:50Yeah.
02:50Guys, the Cavs winning 52 games this year.
02:53Is that how many they won?
02:54They won 52.
02:55They were 52 and 30 on the season.
02:57It is remarkable.
02:58The Toronto Raptors are 46 and 36.
03:00It is remarkable.
03:02I've just now finally seen, you know, even the national guys all say,
03:06yeah, the Cavs had a different starting lineup every night.
03:08Like, what a job that they were able to...
03:1140 or 41.
03:12Is that how they...
03:13I think it was 40.
03:14Go ahead.
03:14So we're talking almost half the games.
03:17You didn't know who the starting lineup was going to be.
03:19So, you know, shuffling the deck on the fly.
03:23And then you make a big trade.
03:24Now that's of their own doing.
03:26So I don't want to hear, you know,
03:28hey, we didn't have enough time to get everything.
03:30Well, you voluntarily made a trade.
03:32Nobody forced you to make a trade.
03:33I supported the trade.
03:34I get why it was controversial.
03:36In the end, I think they clearly got a better player
03:39and someone who I have, believe it or not,
03:41more faith in come playoff time than the guy they gave up.
03:44And we'll get to see Darius tonight.
03:46He's playing in the playing game against Golden State.
03:48Be awesome.
03:49I'm excited for him.
03:50I love the Clippers uniforms.
03:51I want to see how he plays with Kawhi.
03:52You want to stay up and watch at 10 o'clock?
03:53That's probably not going to happen.
03:54Okay.
03:54Stayed up a little late last night.
03:56It's about to say.
03:56Probably not going to happen.
03:58But I think about that all the time
04:00when I've heard so many people poo-poo
04:02what the Cavs have done so far.
04:04And it seems like you're ready to poo-poo a first-round win.
04:09And you're ready to poo-poo a second-round win.
04:12And Matt Moore is saying, why would you do that?
04:14Like, look at how many teams.
04:17How about the Miami Heat?
04:18Would you rather be the Miami Heat?
04:19They're eliminated.
04:20Charlotte was almost eliminated.
04:21They were like the story of the NBA in the second half of the year.
04:24And they had to come from behind and win last night.
04:26So this is where.
04:27You'd rather be the Cavs.
04:28This is where I've got to pull back a little bit
04:29with you and Matt Moore on this.
04:30Is that if it were year one,
04:33it's never year one
04:34because you wouldn't be this good in year one
04:35and you wouldn't have made these moves in year one.
04:36Right.
04:37So we all have to be realistic about this
04:39and I can't just keep moving goalposts here
04:40to fit some sort of an argument here
04:42because this is what the issue is.
04:43Is that I can sit there and try to explain it
04:45but I know the real world.
04:46I can understand and say there's nuance to this.
04:49Nobody cares.
04:50Like, this goes with the Juan Brito thing I just said.
04:52I don't want to sit there and hammer on Juan Brito
04:54because I think it's very typical of a radio show host
04:56to sit there and hammer on a guy
04:56because his name isn't Travis Bazzana.
04:58I guarantee all day long
04:59people are going to be hammering on him
05:00because his name ain't Travis Bazzana.
05:01And yes, according to some people,
05:03he has had some fielding issues before, okay?
05:05Fine.
05:06But this is where I'm at with the Cavs.
05:08It's the same principle.
05:10Four years of history play into this.
05:12So it's not fair.
05:13People are going to say,
05:14tough bleep, doesn't matter.
05:15You made the trades.
05:16You live with it.
05:17That's the way it goes.
05:18We are in a rings culture.
05:19We are in a winning culture.
05:20If you don't win at all,
05:22you are under scrutiny for not winning at all.
05:24While that's unfair,
05:25that's the truth of the society we live in.
05:27If I put where the Cavs are right now,
05:29it's completely ridiculous.
05:31For me and you to go on the air
05:34and be silly about it and say,
05:36well, this is a complete and utter disaster.
05:37No, they made a tremendous trade.
05:39A franchise-shaking trade
05:43when you bring in James Harden.
05:44You went 20-6, 20-4 during that time.
05:47I mean, you had 20-6 after that trade.
05:49You had an incredible record after that trade.
05:51There's a lot of different lineups
05:52you've had to run out there.
05:53There's a lot of teams,
05:54as I saw from this Jackson Lloyd person,
05:57who's an IT person
05:59and does a lot of analytics here,
06:01where it says, hey, look around.
06:03For them to have 40 different lineups
06:05the way they did,
06:05I mean, that's a lot of stuff
06:07to have 40 different lineups.
06:08Yeah, every other team in that neighborhood
06:10is their season's over.
06:12But I think that if I say that
06:15after game six
06:17of the Eastern Conference Finals
06:18against Boston,
06:19if I say it at any other time,
06:21it's just not going to be acceptable.
06:22But even if I say all that
06:23at the end of game six
06:25of the Eastern Conference Finals,
06:26if it doesn't go our way
06:27against Boston,
06:28I think there's going to be
06:29still some people
06:30stomping their feet
06:31and crossing their arms over it.
06:32But I think it's going to be
06:33a little bit easier taken.
06:35Well, we all agree, Kenny.
06:36The fact of it is
06:36they just have to get
06:37to the Eastern Conference Finals
06:38is the way the season is set up.
06:39If they lose in the first round
06:40or if they lose in the second round,
06:42major changes.
06:43I think we all agree
06:44what the stakes are.
06:45But what I have to ask fans
06:47as we get excited for the playoffs,
06:49which I'm excited,
06:50I'm not really feeling that
06:52from a lot of people.
06:53We'll see,
06:53because I'll be there Saturday.
06:54I'm sure those people
06:55will be excited.
06:56The people that actually paid
06:58to attend a playoff game
06:59and paid playoff prices,
07:00I'm sure they'll be excited.
07:02There's always nerves.
07:03There should be.
07:04It's the playoffs.
07:05Your season could be over
07:06in two weeks.
07:07God forbid, right?
07:09So that's supposed to be
07:11the fun and the agony
07:12of how this stuff
07:13is supposed to work.
07:14But I guess I would ask
07:16fellow Cavs fans
07:17and other hosts at the station,
07:18is having the fifth best
07:20playoff odds,
07:21is that not good enough?
07:23Like, do you think
07:24there's a world
07:24where the Cavs should be
07:25like the title favorite?
07:27I guess I don't understand that
07:29because they're not
07:29the best team.
07:30They've never been the best team.
07:31I think we forgot
07:32what it was like to be.
07:33You don't have LeBron James.
07:34You know, I was a baby
07:35in the 80s.
07:37You were a young,
07:38young kid in the 80s.
07:40I think we forgot
07:41what it's like
07:41to not be the best team
07:42in the Eastern Conference
07:43when we've been
07:44a very competitive team.
07:45Because we were the best team
07:47in the Eastern Conference.
07:47I mean, the first couple
07:48of years with LeBron,
07:49we weren't going
07:50into the playoffs.
07:50There was Detroit there.
07:51But you quickly went over Detroit
07:53and then it was like,
07:54hey, you're going to have
07:54to fight everybody off.
07:56And then you were arguably
07:57the best team in the NBA
07:58until you won the championship.
07:58You were the best team
07:59in the NBA.
08:00This is uncharted waters
08:02because we're used
08:02to having it.
08:03Honestly, a guy who's
08:0439 years old like me
08:05is used to having it.
08:06You're number one
08:07with a bullet.
08:07You're going to the finals.
08:08So we've been spoiled.
08:09I think so.
08:10So how do we recalibrate?
08:12Because, look,
08:13I know the payroll.
08:14I know all of that.
08:15But the fact that we have
08:16Donovan Mitchell on this team
08:17and somebody who's authored up
08:19these amazing playoff games
08:21and he's got some help
08:23like the way Evan Mobley
08:24has been playing
08:24and the way that James Harden
08:26has played since the trade
08:28like fitting in seamlessly
08:30which that was,
08:31there were people who thought
08:32that was not going to happen.
08:33Well, it has been.
08:34It's been great.
08:35And he's unlocked
08:36your two bigs
08:37in a different way.
08:38They've been more efficient
08:39since the trade.
08:40That's not grounds
08:41for excitement.
08:42Like, that's what I'm
08:43having trouble understanding.
08:44Let me explain that.
08:45You know how many teams
08:45would die to have
08:46a Donovan Mitchell
08:46on their team
08:47in the playoffs?
08:48We asked about
08:49the pressure question yesterday.
08:51They must have heard us
08:52on ESPN.
08:53Here's Kendrick Perkins.
08:54I think this is
08:56inside the NBA there
08:57or NBA Today there.
08:58What is it?
08:59One of those shows
09:00where they talk about ball.
09:02Yeah, they're ball knowers.
09:03I don't know if Kendrick Perkins,
09:04well, yeah,
09:05I mean playing the NBA,
09:06let's be honest.
09:06All right, here's Kendrick Perkins
09:08on the pressure on a one.
09:10Donovan Mitchell.
09:11Donovan Mitchell,
09:12when you look at
09:13what he has done
09:14in Cleveland,
09:15when you talk about
09:16being one of the greatest
09:17regular season players
09:18of all time in my eyes,
09:20the brother all the time
09:21is an all-NBA talent,
09:23superstar talent
09:25in the regular season,
09:26has never led
09:28his team
09:29to a conference
09:29finals.
09:30And one could argue
09:32that the Cleveland Cavaliers
09:34has done more
09:35for Donovan Mitchell
09:37than they've done
09:38for LeBron James.
09:39When you talk about
09:40fire J.B. Bickerstaff,
09:42right after you fire J.B.
09:43and you hire Kenny Atkinson,
09:45all of a sudden,
09:46Donovan Mitchell
09:47signs a contract extension.
09:48When you talk about
09:49the moves that they made
09:50even last year
09:52at the trade deadline,
09:53go and get DeAndre Hunter
09:54from the Hawks,
09:55that didn't work out.
09:56You make another move
09:58this trade deadline,
09:59you trade Darius Garland,
10:00a guy that you drafted
10:02in the lottery,
10:03to go get a James Harden.
10:05You go and you get
10:06a Dennis Schroeder.
10:07You go and you get
10:07to Ellis.
10:08They have done
10:09everything and more
10:10not only to please him,
10:12but make sure that
10:13they surround him
10:14with the talent
10:15so that he can be successful.
10:17And so when you talk
10:18about all these players,
10:19because this is one
10:20of Stephen A's most,
10:22this is one of his
10:23favorite players
10:24in the league,
10:25and I can't front
10:25he got game,
10:26but when you talk
10:27about a talent
10:28that has the most
10:29to prove
10:29and under the most
10:30pressure,
10:31it's Donovan Mitchell.
10:33That's Kendrick Perkins,
10:34ESPN.
10:35First off,
10:36sub-question here,
10:37do you agree
10:38with him about
10:38that they've done
10:39more for Donovan Mitchell
10:40than they did
10:40for LeBron?
10:41I actually see
10:42his point.
10:43I actually see
10:44his point.
10:45I think you try
10:46to do,
10:47no matter who
10:47your best player
10:49is,
10:50you try to
10:50do everything
10:51you can,
10:52and I feel like
10:52Dan Gilbert
10:53both times
10:54has gotten
10:55the wallet out,
10:56whoever his GMs
10:57have been.
10:57They've,
10:58man with LeBron,
10:59they were up
11:00against it,
11:00so they kind of
11:01made some reckless
11:02moves out of
11:03desperation.
11:03They traded away
11:04the number one
11:04overall pick
11:05sight unseen.
11:06I don't know,
11:06obviously,
11:07you and I,
11:08that was my birthday,
11:08we hosted that show
11:09together,
11:09that was at night
11:10on the draft,
11:10so you and I
11:11were agreeing
11:12with each other
11:12on that,
11:12we got killed
11:13that night for that,
11:14and ended up
11:15obviously working out,
11:16and ended up
11:16being a good trade,
11:17but you did trade
11:19number one overall,
11:20basically sight unseen,
11:21as an NBA player
11:22for Kevin Love,
11:23who was going to be
11:24a helper for LeBron James,
11:25so they did do a lot
11:26for LeBron,
11:28but in some of the moves
11:29that they've made
11:30doing this,
11:32you would look at LeBron,
11:33he would say,
11:33well,
11:33LeBron's a Zeus,
11:34Donovan Mitchell
11:35is not a Zeus,
11:36great player,
11:36just not LeBron,
11:37so maybe you have
11:38to do more for
11:39Donovan Mitchell
11:39than you would
11:40for LeBron James.
11:41But either,
11:41yeah,
11:42you do,
11:42either way,
11:44look,
11:45they have supported him,
11:46they have done
11:47everything they can,
11:48because it's what
11:49you're supposed to do
11:49when you have a superstar
11:51that,
11:51you know,
11:52you didn't draft,
11:53and that has plenty
11:55of other places
11:55he might rather play,
11:57we all know,
11:58it was always a goal
12:00of his to go play
12:01for the New York Knicks,
12:02now you don't hear
12:02much about that anymore,
12:03so that's a testament
12:05to what they have done
12:06around him,
12:06maybe that's part
12:07of the point
12:07that Perkins is making,
12:10I have to say
12:12that in the past
12:13I have thought
12:14all the players
12:16that get crushed
12:17for what they don't do
12:19in the postseason,
12:19for what their teams
12:20don't do,
12:21you know,
12:22Joel Embiid,
12:23James Harden,
12:25right,
12:25like these guys
12:27get the brunt
12:28of a lot
12:29of the NBA
12:30hater talk,
12:31Donovan Mitchell
12:32has skated,
12:33like he is still
12:35still pretty
12:37universally praised,
12:38now maybe it's
12:38because he's never
12:39won an MVP,
12:40like once you win
12:41an MVP,
12:42then it's like
12:43win your championship,
12:44it's the NBA,
12:45once you win MVPs,
12:47you're supposed to win
12:48the NBA finals,
12:49well he's just been
12:50a first team
12:50all NBA guy
12:51just last year,
12:52and he's been
12:53all NBA second,
12:54third team,
12:55this year he'll
12:55probably be
12:57second team
12:57because he did
12:58qualify,
12:58he did play
12:59enough games,
13:00but he's still,
13:01he's not in that
13:02category of
13:04you're the face
13:05of the league,
13:05you have to win
13:05the MVP,
13:06like Luka,
13:07Luka's gonna get
13:07this,
13:08Luka is,
13:09even though he
13:10has not won
13:10an MVP,
13:11but he has a
13:12chance to finish
13:12third if he wins
13:13his appeal for
13:14the games played
13:14eligibility thing,
13:16but Luka,
13:17every year he
13:17doesn't win a
13:18championship,
13:19and now playing
13:20in LA,
13:20he's gonna get
13:21crushed,
13:21Donovan has
13:22been spared
13:23of that,
13:24probably because
13:26it's been
13:26considered,
13:27hey,
13:27you were with
13:28Utah,
13:28and you were
13:29with Cleveland,
13:29you're really
13:30not supposed to
13:30win championships,
13:32but this year
13:32in year eight,
13:33I'm starting to
13:34see the tide
13:35turn on that,
13:36and maybe,
13:37you know what,
13:38maybe that's not
13:38the worst thing
13:38in the world,
13:39honestly,
13:39Ken,
13:39like I hate,
13:40I hate a lot
13:41of the talk
13:42today that we
13:42reduce it to
13:44it's win a
13:45championship,
13:46or your season's
13:47a failure,
13:48but I do think
13:49for Donovan,
13:50not getting out
13:51of the second
13:51round eight
13:52straight years
13:52and having a lot
13:53of good teams,
13:54like you're
13:54gonna get some
13:55criticism,
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