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00:00Can we have a Dexter Lawrence conversation?
00:04Could the Bills afford Dexter Lawrence?
00:07I think, you know, you can probably afford anything, somehow, someway.
00:12The Giants, they can't trade him, like, right now,
00:17right after the guy goes public with his wanting to be traded.
00:20Like, you have to have a little bit more self-respect.
00:23Yeah, you have to, all the while knowing inside you're lying,
00:30you need to say all the things about how he's such a valued member of the team,
00:34and we don't really intend on honoring his request.
00:37He's a New York Giant, and we anticipate him being a New York Giant for a long time.
00:41And you say that a couple different press appearances,
00:43and then sometime in June, trade him.
00:46Or you could say it and mean it and just play poker with him.
00:50It's always possible that someone would be actually honest in a situation like this.
00:54I just kind of doubt it.
00:57But Sal Capaccio on the Western Hotline.
00:59Sal, would you entertain this idea?
01:01What would it cost?
01:02Is it too lofty?
01:04Dexter Lawrence of the Giants.
01:07He's a great player.
01:08Anytime you can add a great player, I'm interested in doing that.
01:11I mean, I don't know the appetite the Bills could have
01:14or, you know, the type of compensation it would take.
01:17He's not even, what, he's 28, 29 years old.
01:20Yeah, he's going to be, and he's a fantastic player.
01:24I was just looking at his pro football reference page a little while ago,
01:27and defensive player of the year, top 10, just a few years ago.
01:30Been a second team all pro a couple of times.
01:33He's been stuck on a team that hasn't really been that good, obviously.
01:36Had that one playoff appearance a few years ago.
01:39You know, it is interesting.
01:40He has played most of his career, if not all of it, in a 4-3, I read.
01:43I was trying to see, you know, the system fit, but I don't care about that anymore.
01:48I just think, we've talked about this.
01:49Systems are so fluid now.
01:50You move guys around.
01:52When you're great, you're great.
01:52You know, you find a spot for a guy who's great.
01:54You don't have to be pigeonholed into that.
01:55So, should the Bills be interested in making a phone call,
01:59or should they make a phone call?
02:00I mean, you got Brandon Bean and Joe Shane, right?
02:03They're good friends.
02:03They were both at, I saw them both at the, in Phoenix,
02:07at the reception on Monday night, for sure.
02:09Why not have that conversation?
02:10I just don't know if that would be something the Bills could afford,
02:13both in compensation and or in contractual value.
02:17Okay.
02:18I mean, it's a one plus, right?
02:20Bulldog?
02:21Oh, yeah.
02:22Probably, or I don't know.
02:24Is there a player on my roster that I can swap out?
02:28I mean, then that gets into dead money,
02:29and, like, everything could get really jumbled up.
02:31Who is that even, actually?
02:33I don't know.
02:33I saw our friend, and Nate Geary was in for you Thursday and Friday,
02:40commented on a tweet suggesting Ed Oliver and a second-round pick in 2027.
02:46And I don't know if that doesn't seem, it might be light,
02:49but I immediately went, I think I would rather have Dexter Lawrence on my team
02:54than Ed Oliver.
02:55I like Ed Oliver just fine, but, like, that's a win for me, I think.
02:59To me, this sounds like trading Rousseau for Miles Garrett.
03:01Okay, right, same concept.
03:03You're sort of winning on both sides of it.
03:05Like, you get a certain caliber of player's contract off your books,
03:09and Oliver's okay, just like Rousseau to me, sort of, like, you know,
03:13Why would they do that, right, maybe, the Giants?
03:16On top of that, the Bills just reworked at Oliver's contract.
03:20Okay, so forget that then, right?
03:22Yeah, I mean, like, it's $11 million dead money to even trade him.
03:25You know, I mean, like, he's more valuable on your team
03:28than he would be even doing that, I think.
03:30Interesting story.
03:31I think they like Ed Oliver, actually.
03:33Yeah, of course.
03:34I do, too.
03:35I'm just saying, you know.
03:36Yeah.
03:36What's a fit?
03:37I think Dexter Lawrence, I mean, that's a, I'm going to say much better player.
03:42Interesting timing for that.
03:43Not to stay on him for much longer, but, like, they bring in John Harbaugh.
03:47That's credibility.
03:48That's why you do that.
03:49And now he wants to be traded?
03:52Like, have his first interactions not been the best?
03:56Like, really, it's not a contract thing.
03:58That's not different.
03:59It's not like they've been winning, and now they've, you know, fired somebody.
04:02It's not like they fired McDermott, and you just want out because you don't believe in the new program.
04:07It's John Harbaugh.
04:08You'd think that would be a plus, but maybe not.
04:12Well, you could look at it a couple ways here.
04:14I think that Harbaugh could draw a line in the sand, and maybe, like, Dexter Lawrence is gone.
04:19They want to do, he wants a new contract.
04:20They're talking about John Harbaugh comes in and goes, hey, man, I'm running things like this.
04:24You're under contract for this, and we can work on that later.
04:27We're not doing this right now.
04:28Whatever.
04:29Or you could look at it as kind of the same way Miles Garrett.
04:32I mean, last year, whenever that was, I mean, Miles Garrett basically wrote, you know, he put out there, and
04:39publicly, I'll basically never play for this team again, right?
04:42Or whatever he, however he wrote it.
04:44Right.
04:44And like, oh, yeah, things just worked out in the end, and he's back.
04:47They gave him a new contract.
04:48All right.
04:49So we have, I guess, Baltimore today, with its new coach, has started their offseason stuff, and the Bills will
04:56be doing so, my understanding, is tomorrow.
04:58What can we look forward to?
05:00So it's just conditioning.
05:02There are no actual, like, football coaches on the field.
05:05There are only strength and conditioning coaches on the field.
05:08This is what they call phase one.
05:09We've gone over phases before, but phase one is just, that's right, phase one is two weeks of the offseason
05:17program, meetings, strength and conditioning, and rehab only for, you know, players who've been dealing with injuries.
05:24Unfortunately, we won't see, because there's no media access to who's out there and who isn't, other than what the
05:30Bills put out with those videos of arrivals and some B-roll, you know.
05:34And they'll control that, right, and we'll know that a little bit.
05:38We do know that it was said that Josh Allen is expected to be there.
05:40We know he's a dad now.
05:42He's recovering from foot surgery, but from what Brandon Bean told us, that, you know, he's expected to be a
05:47part of the offseason program, 100%, and all of that.
05:50Because the Bills have not had a new head coach in a while, obviously, we're kind of living in a
05:56different world than we've lived in with this stuff.
05:58So, just so everybody knows, the Bills and the Ravens, because they have a new head coach, obviously, for the
06:03first time in even longer, and, what, eight other teams can start and will start their offseason program this week.
06:11Teams with returning head coaches can't do that for two more weeks.
06:15So, you get two extra weeks here.
06:17What you also get with these teams, and the Bills would do this, there is a voluntary veteran minicamp, April
06:2520th through 22nd, for the Bills.
06:28That voluntary veteran minicamp will basically be, I think, the same kind of thing.
06:35I mean, you're going to be able to do some work on the field, like, no hitting or anything, but
06:38they'll be able to throw footballs and things like that.
06:41What do you think of sort of how the scales tip when it comes to that?
06:45Is it interesting enough to really ponder, to spend a minute on?
06:49Like, all right, you have a new coach, here's what you get.
06:53Two weeks of, you know, conditioning, without really having any actual football coaching being allowed.
07:00Like, is that worthwhile enough to justify it?
07:03And it's voluntary, right?
07:05I mean, not everybody probably will be present.
07:09I mean, I doubt we could go back and look if there's any empirical evidence on if it helps teams
07:13or not.
07:14Probably not.
07:14But one of the reasons would be that most teams with the new head coach stink, right?
07:17I mean, like, they're changing head coaches because they're not that good.
07:20So, how good can they be expected to be?
07:23The Bills and the Ravens here are changing head coaches this year.
07:27For example, teams who are good.
07:28Like, I mean, they're getting an extra two weeks in with teams that are already pretty good.
07:32So, maybe that changes.
07:33I think, for me, more than anything, is if you have a brand new system.
07:37And the Bills do on defense.
07:38They don't on offense.
07:40They do on defense.
07:41I think that two weeks matters.
07:42It matters to get them a little bit more ramped up for when they get to May, when they get
07:46to more of their, you know, on-field off-season work.
07:48Which, by the way, the OTAs begin May 18th.
07:50So, by the time you get there, if you can have an extra two weeks of just kind of installing
07:55your system, doing meetings, it is voluntary.
07:58But there's going to be players that, you know, are getting introduced to this two weeks earlier than you would
08:03be if you have a new defensive coordinator, but not a new head coach, if that makes sense.
08:08Well, the draft is coming two weeks from Thursday is round one.
08:14We've made it through free agency.
08:16I know we've talked it through from a few different angles, Sal.
08:19But now that we're, you know, we're more in draft season than free agency season, I mean, I know they
08:25can still sign guys.
08:26But, you know, it feels like, you know, they filled out some holes, filled some holes over the course of
08:31the few weeks since free agency opened.
08:34It took them a little while, but they found their way to a couple of veteran safeties and a couple
08:37of veteran linemen for depth or, who knows, maybe even starting on the offensive line.
08:45Is there any spot that still you look at, when you look at the depth chart, that you're surprised they
08:52did not find their way to attacking really at all so far this offseason, recognizing that the draft is another
08:58opportunity to do so?
09:00So, let's go back to the first question here, right?
09:04Defensive line, defensive tackle specifically, defensive tackle, I should say.
09:08We were talking about Dexter Lawrence and Ed Oliver and that group.
09:11I still think the defensive line, but specifically the defensive tackle area has been something that, you know, I thought
09:18that they would do a little bit more on, but they really haven't.
09:20So, I still, that's why I believe that that's probably a pretty, you know, open window as far as, you
09:25know, what they might be looking at in the, in, in, at the draft, at the draft.
09:30Excuse me.
09:31They, I mean, they went out.
09:32I would have thought defensive line would have been more pressing than offensive line.
09:36Even, you know, and then Conor McGovern resigns and then they go out and they even sign Austin Corbett.
09:40They sign Lloyd Cushenberry, right?
09:43But they have not really done anything on the defensive line.
09:46They've signed safeties, a couple of them, three of them actually, one of them's a returner, Damar Hamlin, but they've,
09:51they've done that.
09:52Backup quarterback, nickel corner.
09:55There has not been one defensive tackle, I think, in my, in my calculations here, not one defensive tackle signed
10:00by the Buffalo Bills during free agency here.
10:02Yeah, that's a good point.
10:04I think of running backs and receivers more for this, how Bean would normally just give himself insurance policies, guys
10:11that are fringe in case they can't get what they might want to get out of the draft.
10:16And that would be this too, but it hasn't happened yet.
10:19Like you're saying, what do you think?
10:20And I'll say, Mike, real quick, they have seven on the roster, seven defensive tackles.
10:24Now we can debate like where guys fit, right?
10:26Like, because when I say defensive tackles, right?
10:28If you're taking three, four and you want to call it Oliver and whatever, I understand that.
10:33But let's just say that the defensive tackles in my mind are at Oliver, Dion Walker, TJ Sanders, Dwayne Carter,
10:38Fadarian Mathis, Tommy, whoo, a kinks of this, the soda and Zion Logue.
10:44So you have seven of them on the roster.
10:48I just, you know, you're going to go to camp with probably 10 to 12.
10:52And I just feel like they probably by this time usually would have added a guy or two.
10:58Do you have a macro view of this draft?
11:00Bulldog and I were talking earlier and, you know, it's a little bit tongue in cheek, but the fact that
11:06we have the Sabres excitement this year, unlike in recent years,
11:10has cut into our time spent on the draft.
11:13But I think it's maybe a good year for that.
11:15Just not even from a Bills standpoint.
11:17And the Bills are drafting around where they always do in this era.
11:21But just like not having the quarterbacks, I don't know, how much sex appeal is there, you know, even after
11:27Mendoza, but include him if you want to.
11:30I don't know.
11:31It just kind of feels flat to me.
11:33I loved your discussion.
11:34I heard it at the beginning of the show.
11:37And I think I've been there for a little while, Mike, with you, where it does not seem like a
11:41really great draft.
11:43I think one of the reasons might be, and I don't know, like I haven't done the work on like
11:49all of the guys.
11:51Who is it?
11:51Is it Dante Moore, right?
11:52The quarterback at Oregon, right?
11:54Who went back to Oregon.
11:56You know, he had a chance to come out.
11:58And because of NIL and keeping guys in school, we might be seeing more of this lately, which is, or
12:04going forward, which is, you know, remember when we had like, oh, my God, all these underclassmen are declaring.
12:09It's making the draft great.
12:10And we might be going the other way now, which is there's guys that can come out, but they're not
12:14coming out.
12:15So, like, let's just say he would have.
12:16You're probably looking at him as the number two pick.
12:18He's going to the Jets.
12:19The Jets, think about them for a second.
12:21The Jets need a quarterback.
12:22Gino's their quarterback.
12:23They get him.
12:24What if Moore comes out?
12:26Mendoza goes one.
12:27Moore probably goes two.
12:28It totally changes the entire complexion of the draft and of the first round, right?
12:32And I just think, like, we might be seeing that.
12:34But I think overall, and I don't know how many guys this would go for.
12:37There's probably some other guys out there people can name.
12:39Oh, that guy went back to school.
12:40He could have come out.
12:41He didn't.
12:42He's going to get paid to stay.
12:43Whatever.
12:44But I agree with you.
12:45Like, when I look at even the top of this draft, I'm like, well, if that guy was in, you
12:51know, a draft last year, two years ago, four years ago,
12:53where would he be going?
12:55Even Mendoza.
12:56I like Mendoza.
12:57I think Mendoza can be a really good NFL quarterback.
13:00I question the environment he's going to go to.
13:02I question the development from, you know, that particular organization, how they're going to treat him.
13:06But I think Mendoza has a chance to be a really good quarterback.
13:09That said, I still don't know where he would fall if he was in, like, most of these other quarterback
13:14drafts.
13:15You know what I mean?
13:15Yeah.
13:17You know, with that in mind, I mean, you know, it's funny you mentioned Moore.
13:21And that can be because, you know, I think you're right asserting that he would be the second pick.
13:27So his going back, I can get paid.
13:30It's not so much to establish more value.
13:35In fact, maybe the potential downside is he hurts himself by going back.
13:41That's happened to guys over the years.
13:44But this gives you an opportunity to get paid and pass on the Jets, basically, is what he really is
13:50doing.
13:51I mean, I don't know what all his motivations are, but from, you know, 3,000 miles away, if the
13:57guy was going to be the second pick in the draft, it's hard to do much better than that.
14:00So, you know, and maybe he just wants to win in college.
14:04I don't know.
14:04But to me, it just says, I don't want to go to the Jets.
14:07It might even have set up for a passable, respectable enough conversation about one versus two.
14:13Whereas Ty Simpson doesn't seem to be pulling that off.
14:16No, no.
14:17And Bulldog, you're right.
14:17Like, he would have made way more money as a draft pick.
14:20There's no doubt.
14:20Right.
14:21But I think we're not living, though, in this space of you can't.
14:24He's still making way more than college kids ever did.
14:28I'm reading right now, and I didn't know this.
14:29I just pulled this up.
14:31His NIL portfolio includes deals with Nike, Beats by Dre, and Panini America.
14:36He is the highest valued NIL earner on Oregon.
14:39But still, way less than he would make if he made an NFL contract.
14:43But at least that's serviceable, and you're like, hey, I feel like I'm getting, you know, something out of this.
14:48And, oh, by the way, I'm not going to the New York Jets.
14:50Right?
14:51So, it's probably a little bit of that.
14:53Yeah.
14:53Yeah, I get the math here.
14:55He can spurn the Jets, play another season at Oregon, make some money, and go into next year's draft and
15:01play for the Jets.
15:03That's right, yes, yes.
15:05That's right, yes.
15:06Very possible.
15:07Can he keep going back to school forever until it's not the Jets?
15:11Yeah, the Jets are leaning against the wall outside of school going like, we're going to be here all day,
15:18bro.
15:18So, who's going to be worse this year, the Dolphins or the Jets?
15:23The Dolphins have, last I looked, a slightly lower win total.
15:27I always talk myself into the Jets being, like, competitive or good.
15:33I'm not sure I'll get to good this year.
15:35But, I mean, Geno at least is some efforts to stabilize and, like, have a season.
15:44So, that's good.
15:46I mean, they could have done worse.
15:47Yeah.
15:48And at least they made that effort.
15:49Brees Hall could be great, depending on scheme and offensive line.
15:53Their offensive line played together.
15:55I think I saw more than any other.
15:57He's already doing it, so.
15:58I'm already doing it.
15:59Last year, I can't help myself.
16:01You cannot be helped.
16:02Garrett Wilson and then, you know, a draft pick.
16:06I don't know.
16:07I think they could be okay.
16:08Taylor Kidd at tight end.
16:09Mason Taylor.
16:09I can't make this argument for Miami right now.
16:12I agree with you.
16:13I mean, and the Jets did some work on defense.
16:15Now, I don't think Minka is nearly the same player, obviously.
16:18But Minka Fitzpatrick, Demario Davis comes back, right?
16:20I mean, like, they did some things on defense.
16:23They traded for Tavondre Sweat.
16:25Remember that?
16:26The defensive tackle.
16:27They did that.
16:28So, I think.
16:29And they have, I think, a really fiery head coach, right?
16:32That's going to be competitive and rah-rah win everything.
16:35Whereas, maybe the Dolphins are in this mode of, hey, we understand where we are right now.
16:38We know who we are.
16:39And their head coach.
16:40And he may, not that he doesn't want to win, but I think they have more of a realistic view
16:45of who they are.
16:46So, I'm not sure, you know, where they go.
16:48And I don't know.
16:49I think both teams are probably going to be, obviously, in the, you know, back of the AFC East.
16:55But when I look at the Dolphins, I think about a team that might simply just be saying, hey, we
16:59understand there's a reset year where the Jets aren't thinking like that.
17:02But then you throw the Malik Willis move into all that.
17:06And I'm still not sure I really get it from Miami's standpoint.
17:10Because everything else they've done looks like, let's go hang out and win as few games as we can.
17:15But also, let's go trade for a quarterback and pay him, or sign a quarterback and pay him, you know,
17:20$25 million.
17:20Which is, I know, not, like, crazy money for a quarterback, but it just doesn't seem, it just doesn't add
17:26up with everything else they've done, I think.
17:28So, I don't know if you, did we, I'm sorry, did we talk?
17:31I don't know if we talked after this, but I don't know if you guys know.
17:33I stuck around for Goodell's press conference.
17:35I always love to be a part of that.
17:36And I asked him about tanking.
17:38And I said, you know, the NBA and the NHL have talked about this.
17:42The NBA is making some changes because of this.
17:44And, like, would you ever, does that come across your desk?
17:48Do you guys talk about it in the competition committee?
17:50His answer was, we don't have a tanking problem.
17:52Like, no one does that in this league.
17:54Like, we're super competitive.
17:56And there were some responses.
17:57It was really funny because I was kind of proud that I asked the question because then there were people
18:01debating, like, well, I don't know about that.
18:04You know what I mean?
18:05It was really interesting.
18:06What's happened, I want to say this is right, because I'm sure I can think of a couple of examples
18:10where teams late in the season, you know,
18:14tanking can maybe be a little bit of a sliding scale.
18:18Like, what Miami is doing right now could smell like that.
18:21But ultimately, end of the season, maybe you're playing another team bad like you are.
18:26And, I mean, do you set your starters?
18:29Do you do what Tim Murray did and trade your goalie when he wins a game?
18:32Like, just that's more obvious.
18:35But, like, the Giants beat the Colts a couple years ago and cost themselves a higher pick.
18:40New England, Buffalo, when Joe Milton played.
18:42Yeah, Texans did the thing with the Colts, right.
18:45And they lost out on, well, they eventually picked Stroud anyway, but the first pick went elsewhere.
18:51Chicago, in that case.
18:53So, I don't know.
18:55I feel like it sort of looks different.
18:57It might not be, tanking might not be the word for it, quite the same as it is in basketball
19:02or hockey.
19:03But, you know, you have these teams late in the year where they've kind of blown it by winning a
19:08meaningless game.
19:10Did you mention New England in the Bills?
19:11I did.
19:12Okay, yeah, of course, yes.
19:13Yeah, like, I don't know if they were tanking, like, intentionally bad, but it's funny if they were, because then
19:18they get to that game and they have the first pick and they won.
19:20Right.
19:21Yeah.
19:22So, there's always that one enemy of tanking, the players on your team.
19:25Maybe that is what Goodell has in mind when he answers so definitively when you ask that question.
19:30Maybe.
19:30Like, look at these examples of teams that looked like they were doing that.
19:34Everyone was talking about them doing that, but in the end, they, you know, they did not crash the plane
19:40into the side of the mountain.
19:41They pulled up and landed safely.
19:42Absolutely.
19:42Absolutely.
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