- 2 days ago
Dan + Shay have kicked off their next project on a very personal note, sharing the single, “Say So,” which also serves as a tribute to their friend, Ben. The duo recently joined Kate Neal for a conversation about new music, their pivot to “real,” mental health, and more.
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00:00It's so lovely to see you guys.
00:02I'm really happy that you're here,
00:03and I'm really excited to talk about this new music.
00:07So good to see you.
00:08It's so good to see you, too.
00:09It's been too long.
00:09I know, way too long.
00:10I feel like you guys,
00:11I was trying to do my pre-interview social creep yesterday,
00:14and I was really disappointed because you haven't posted,
00:16you haven't posted, and you know what?
00:17Usually I can count on the wives.
00:19Your wives have not posted much either.
00:20I was like, wow.
00:21I'll wipe that account clean, too.
00:22We are coming up blank right now.
00:24That's right.
00:25So I'm excited to do this the old-fashioned way
00:26and just see what has been going on.
00:28I love it.
00:28Well, first, let's talk about the new song, Say So.
00:32Yeah, Say So is very personal.
00:34We just think it's maybe the most important song
00:36we've ever written and recorded.
00:38Wrote it about our friend Ben, who passed away.
00:42He was just really an important part of our story.
00:45He ran Warner Chapel Publishing,
00:46the publishing company that when we were moving to town,
00:49had no money, we were completely broke,
00:50nothing going on.
00:51He believed in us early.
00:53For those of you guys who don't know,
00:54publishing companies, they represent songwriters,
00:56and that's what we moved to town to do.
00:58We were just two songwriters writing songs,
01:00and he believed in us.
01:02And he honestly is a big part.
01:04We're still at that company today.
01:05And a big part of the reason we're at our record label,
01:07it was in the same building at the time.
01:09And we would walk around to these publishing companies
01:11singing 19 You and Me in our songs.
01:13We were just pitching them to other artists.
01:14And he was one of the people who was like,
01:16you guys sound good singing them.
01:17Would you want to go meet with the label?
01:19There's this guy, John Esposito, upstairs.
01:21We were like, heck yeah.
01:22And he's from Pittsburgh.
01:23Yeah, yeah.
01:24It was a connection.
01:25But yeah, just a big part of our story.
01:27And we've just had a lot of history with him,
01:31a lot of memories with him.
01:32And we sat down and we were kind of chasing this other album
01:36to not get too far into this.
01:37I'm rambling now.
01:38No, rambling, I want to know.
01:39Making a bunch of music that was like, I don't know.
01:42It just didn't have a lot of meaning.
01:43We weren't really connecting with it a lot.
01:44It was catchy stuff.
01:45We spent a few months doing that.
01:47We were chasing it.
01:47And I don't know, chasing,
01:49this is the wrong place to say it,
01:50like chasing a hit, right?
01:51We were trying to make something that like,
01:53man, I think this will have a good research hook
01:55on radio or whatever.
01:56Just like these things that, I don't know,
01:58we had cold feet about it.
01:59We weren't really believing the messages we were singing.
02:01And I just had this midlife crisis about AI and things.
02:04And we all do, you know what I mean?
02:05Is AI coming for our jobs?
02:07And we just kind of had this realization
02:09that the only thing that could combat AI
02:10and the modernity of what's happening in the world
02:13is just like real, authentic human emotion.
02:15You know, I think people know when it's real.
02:18And we just kind of had this pivot.
02:19We went back in the writing room.
02:20We're like, let's write some stuff
02:21that just like matters to us.
02:23Let's write something that is honest.
02:24When you hear the song and you look at us,
02:25you're like, I believe that coming from those guys.
02:28And I don't know what it was,
02:30like not to get too spiritual.
02:31It just like was, I don't know.
02:34We just hit this creative wave
02:35that we hadn't hit since like the Where It All Began album.
02:37It was just like this few weeks of writing
02:39where it was like everything changed.
02:41And it Say So was one of those songs.
02:43We sat down with our buddies,
02:45Jimmy Robbins and David Hodges,
02:46and we were just talking.
02:47We were, you know,
02:48we'd written a few songs with them earlier that week.
02:50And some, for some reason, you know,
02:53again, it's like, this is more than coincidence,
02:55not to get too spiritual,
02:56but that song was meant to be written that day.
02:57We started talking about our friend, Ben.
02:59We all, you know,
03:00he was just like a Nashville legend.
03:01We all have connection and stories with Ben.
03:03And we're sharing stories about him.
03:06And we were just like, man,
03:06why don't we,
03:07let's write a song about Ben today or for Ben.
03:09You know, it's like, you know,
03:10we just tackled a heavy, heavy topic,
03:13a heavy subject and got about halfway through it.
03:15And, you know,
03:16that's usually where you take a step back
03:17and you're like, is this something?
03:18Should we pursue this to the finish line?
03:20Is this, or should we pivot?
03:21Is this like not going to be a thing?
03:22And I think we were all like, man,
03:24this, because we write love songs,
03:26you know,
03:26that's just what we've done our whole career.
03:27We've been to wedding guys and it was a heavy concept.
03:31And we were like, is this the vibe?
03:33Even if it's not Dan and Shay,
03:35like this song needs to be written this day.
03:37It was just in the room.
03:38It's just, and I think that's how songs happen.
03:39At least the best songs happen like that.
03:41And we just, we saw it to the finish line.
03:44We were sharing stories about Ben.
03:45It was an emotional day.
03:46Luckily, those were our buddies.
03:48We could be that open with them.
03:50And I got home and I played the demo for my wife, Abby.
03:52And she obviously was like, this song is incredible.
03:54I was like, I don't know if it's a Dan and Shay thing.
03:56Like conceptually, it's something we've never done before.
03:59And whether it was going to be a collab or a song that just lived on our hard drive as
04:04a demo,
04:05I'm glad we wrote it that day.
04:06It was like, we needed to write it.
04:07And I think Ben was there in the room with us that day.
04:10Cause she, she was like, that's, that's a beautiful song.
04:13Like, did you guys write it about Ben?
04:14I was like, of course, you know?
04:16And she was like, it's beautiful.
04:17You did that on his birthday.
04:19We didn't know it was his birth.
04:20It would have been his 50th birthday that day.
04:21We had no idea.
04:23And I pulled up my Facebook and it was like, would you like to wish Ben a happy birthday?
04:26And I don't know.
04:27That's just like a, I was like, this is meant to be.
04:30I have like full body chills.
04:33It's crazy.
04:34I, I was like, no way.
04:35I had to like double check it when she, cause she obviously like, you know,
04:39his birthday is in our calendar.
04:40He's a good friend of ours.
04:41And, um, I like texted the boys.
04:44I was like, you guys aren't going to believe this.
04:46Like we were blown away.
04:46Um, I don't know.
04:48It's just like, like I said, this is more than coincidence to me.
04:51This is a song that needed to be written.
04:52Ben was there with us.
04:53He was the big part of our songwriting career.
04:54It's like, I don't know.
04:56It's just a song that needed to come out.
04:58And we said like, yeah, we've got other stuff in the tank that we're like,
05:01this could be a country radio hit.
05:02We obviously were really proud of this body of work we're working on,
05:05but this song needed to be first because we said, even if this song tanks,
05:10Tom's over there, like it ain't going to tank.
05:11Don't put that into the world.
05:13It's a great song.
05:13I think it's going to do well.
05:14I'm, I think it's going to reach a lot of people.
05:16Uh, and it is like, it's not morbid.
05:18It's optimistic.
05:19It's hopeful.
05:20It's, you know, I don't know.
05:22It's, it's the whole message behind the song before we play it is like,
05:24if, if you're going through like, say so, if you need help, say so,
05:28ask for it, you know, and we could talk more about our own mental health
05:32journeys as well.
05:33But, uh, yeah, it was just a song that needed to come out.
05:36And I, I think Shay and I both agreed, like if this song doesn't climb its way
05:40up the chart, which we hope it does, we hope everybody loves it,
05:43but if it helps one person, if it saves one life, it was absolutely worth it.
05:47Um, so yeah, we're, we're coming out of the gate with this song and, uh,
05:51we're really proud of it.
05:52I don't know.
05:52I feel like also selfishly it's, I don't know.
05:55It's an, it's an excuse, not an excuse is a bad word.
05:57It's a reason for us to break the fourth wall and talk about our own mental
06:00health journeys as well.
06:01You know, we both struggled with it over the last, we talked about COVID when
06:04we came in here and I think that screwed us all up a little bit.
06:07You know, we're still digging out of that hole.
06:08And, uh, I don't know, we've both dealt with anxiety, panic attacks, those
06:13kinds of things.
06:13And to be able to, I don't know, knowing the fact that I get to stand on stage
06:16every night before that song and be like, Hey guys, like, I know that we're
06:20blessed to be standing on this stage and living this dream that we've always
06:23dreamed of since we were little kids.
06:25But like, we've got our struggles too, you know, and we're up here saying that
06:29it's okay to ask for help.
06:30I think, especially as men, we bottle things up a little bit and we push our
06:33emotions down.
06:34Um, and it took me a while to, to break that wall down as well.
06:37It's like, I didn't go to therapy.
06:39I was like, nah, man, I grew up in Pittsburgh.
06:40I'm like, I can go to therapy and then changed my life.
06:43I'm the same way.
06:44And now I'm like, I can't get enough therapy.
06:45I'm like, how much can I possibly consume at a time?
06:48100%.
06:48But no, I think that's really beautiful.
06:50And I, it's really cool to be talking to you guys in this moment, like right
06:53before the song is coming out, because I can't, I think in six months when I
06:56see you, I can't even imagine like the stories that you're going to have from
07:00fans and from other people in Nashville.
07:02Like I did not have the pleasure of meeting Ben, but I like, I know so many
07:06people like whose lives he touched.
07:09And I just think that like, this is going to be so healing for this town, which
07:13is amazing.
07:14It's such a beautiful song.
07:16It's so funny.
07:16You say like, I don't know if this is a Dan and Shay thing.
07:18Cause I didn't really even think about the fact that you guys haven't touched
07:21a heavier subject like that.
07:22Cause I was like, oh my God, this is like such a perfect Dan and Shay song.
07:25Yeah.
07:26It's not something that you necessarily go into the room, you know, as a songwriter,
07:30it's not one of those subjects that's just being written all over town all the
07:34time.
07:34Cause like Dan said, like as men, especially a lot of times we don't talk about that
07:38stuff.
07:39We don't talk about our vulnerabilities and, you know, and just kind of being honest.
07:43And if there's one thing that we've really seen throughout this process of
07:46everybody who's heard the song already, it was a, it was kind of staggering to us to,
07:51to realize how much people were moved by the song and the message.
07:55And cause it is something that especially coming from us that you wouldn't necessarily
08:00expect, but that's unfortunately the reality of, of what mental health, the, like the kinds
08:04of people that it affects it, it knows no bounds.
08:06You know, it's, it's anyone from who's had a really hard life of, you know, went to prison
08:11and had all these, you know, really hard struggles, but it's also the guy, you know, on, on wall
08:15street or the, you know, the billionaire, it's all of these people.
08:17It doesn't, it doesn't matter who you are.
08:19Like nobody is immune from, you know, your own mind and especially nowadays with social
08:24media and all the new challenges that we have as adults and even kids going through
08:29this for the very first time of, I mean, it's, it's really sad to see the statistics of,
08:33you know, how, how young kids are now when they're going through some of these struggles
08:36with mental health.
08:37And it's a, it's a very sad thing, but I think that we have to hit that head on with
08:41conversation and creating a culture that, you know, making it okay to like talk about
08:46these things.
08:46Cause I think especially, you know, like I said, for men, I think you're just told to
08:51kind of keep quiet, you know, like you're the head of your household or whatever it is
08:55of your, your friends, like you, you're not allowed to be vulnerable.
08:57You can't talk about these things.
08:58And we want to make sure that, you know, we're on, you know, that message from us is
09:02saying like, Hey, it might look like we have it all together.
09:05Or a lot of people, you know, people expect them to have it all together, but it's usually
09:08the people that you least suspect that are maybe going through something that you
09:11wouldn't, uh, would never imagine.
09:13And, um, and this song really, you know, obviously it's a very heavy topic, like Dan
09:17said, but there is a lot of hope in the song.
09:19And I think that's, you know, why I'm excited to be a part of this because it, like Dan
09:23said, this really was a moment where we felt like this song was coming out no matter what
09:28that day it was meant to be written.
09:30It was meant to be out in the world.
09:31And when you have something like that, like Dan and I have been a part of a lot of special
09:34songs that mean a lot to us from the ground up speechless, you know, that we read about
09:38our wives and about our grandparents.
09:39And there's been a lot of those special moments, but I mean, I've, I've thought about it a lot
09:43of times, how powerful that's going to be to be able to stand on stage.
09:46And the easiest thing to do sometimes is, is to tell the truth.
09:50You know, it's like, there's no, we have no agenda with this song.
09:53It feels much bigger than us.
09:55We just know that, you know, we got to be the lucky ones to carry out this message.
09:58And it's just going to, it's a crazy feeling knowing that like, we're going to be able to
10:03put a song like this out.
10:04Um, and I, and I do think it's going to help a lot of people, you know, and if like
10:08Dan
10:09said, if it's one person that, that hears it, and even if it's not, you know, thoughts
10:13of suicide, if it's, you know, other things that people are struggling with, there's, it
10:17runs the gamut on, on people are struggling with a lot these days.
10:20Um, and, and some of the people who have heard this song have, you know, said that the first
10:24thing that they thought of was, you know, a family member, you know, struggling with cancer
10:27or whatever it might be.
10:28There's a lot of, you know, things that, you know, there's a lot of heartbreak out there in
10:32the world.
10:33And I think that we really, you know, the message we want people to know is that there's
10:36always somebody there at the other end of the line that you can talk through these struggles
10:40because with our own, you know, battles with mental health, that's the number one thing
10:45that's helped both of us is just talking about it.
10:47And it's, I mean, even just talking to you right now, it's like, it's very therapeutic
10:50of just getting it out there of like, Hey, like this is a normal every day.
10:55Like we have a lot of distractions and things, but like to sit down for just a second and
10:59say like, Hey, just so you know, it's okay to, to not be okay, you know?
11:04And that's, that's all right.
11:05And if that sparks one conversation that sparks this conversation that maybe helps make the
11:09world a little bit better of a place, like what a beautiful thing to be a part of.
11:14So like for us, it's like, obviously I hope that this, this song gets out to as many people
11:18as possible because I do think it'll, it'll help them.
11:20But like Dan said, if it helps one person like that, that's invaluable to save one person.
11:25And we've had songs like that before, like weirdly, like it's, you know, sometimes obviously
11:30we've not had a song like this before, but we've had people come up to us and say like,
11:33Hey, your music saved my life.
11:35You know, music is a powerful thing.
11:36And that's where we know, like, it's so much bigger than us.
11:39It's so much bigger than Dan and Shay.
11:40Like we're so blessed to have, you know, fans and people who are fans of our music, but
11:44music in general is so powerful and it pierces the soul.
11:47It's not just a thing that you hear and forget about.
11:49These songs are part of our lives.
11:50And to have a song like this, that is just the lifeblood of, of hope and to bring that
11:55to people.
11:56Like, I'm just so proud to, to be a part of that.
11:59It's unbelievable.
11:59We do this thing every year at Odyssey called I'm listening.
12:02And it literally is just like a two hour conversation about mental health, like live on the radio.
12:06And I always, I get to host it every year.
12:08It's like me, Carson Daly.
12:09And we always have like, Carson's the best, right?
12:11He's, he's, he's amazing to work with on this.
12:15I need to send the song to Carson.
12:16I'm going to send it to him right now.
12:17Absolutely need to send it to Carson.
12:18You can tell him we're talking about I'm listening.
12:20He's so excited about it.
12:21We both feel really passionately about it because it just like, it's just talking about
12:25it.
12:25It's like you said, like we have a lot of superficial conversations every single day.
12:29Right.
12:29But like, I find that I like, you get the most human connection when you're talking about
12:32something real and like just normalizing that.
12:35Cause like, I didn't grow up with people talking about mental health.
12:37Like I was like in the middle of like the worst anxiety I'd ever had in my entire life
12:40right before I moved to New York city.
12:41And I like literally didn't know what anxiety was like, someone was like, are you having anxiety?
12:45I was like, what is that?
12:46I was 24, 23, 24, you know what I mean?
12:49Which is just crazy.
12:50But I think that this is going to like help you guys have so many great conversations
12:54and be helpful to so many people.
12:55I'm feeling it right now.
12:55Yeah.
12:56Honestly, just being here, talking about it.
12:57I'm like, this is awesome.
12:58It's great.
12:59It's amazing.
13:00I also want to talk about like this creative, like sprint that this guy, that this sent you
13:05guys on after you wrote this song and kind of had this moment and changed direction
13:09with the new music.
13:10It was crazy.
13:11Honestly, I, I told Shay, we were standing out.
13:13We were writing with this artist, Brandon Lake.
13:16He's amazing.
13:17I don't know if you know, Brandon, just what a wonderful guy.
13:20He had a camp at the studio called Dark Horse Studio out in Franklin.
13:23And I mean, everybody was there.
13:24Lainey Wilson, Tyler Hubbard.
13:26Who else was out there?
13:27Thomas Red, Hardy, Jelly.
13:29Bailey's in the room.
13:29Like everybody.
13:30I was like, who wasn't there?
13:32My God.
13:33We wrote a song with Bailey.
13:34Yeah.
13:34Um, yeah, just, it was like an incredible crew.
13:37Like his team just absolutely crushed it.
13:39It was so well put together.
13:40And that was like in the middle of this streak.
13:42I remember we were parked outside waiting to go in and write that day.
13:45I was like, I told Shay, I was like, we're going to look back on, you know, cause all
13:48these timestamps with the day we wrote songs, all these demos, we're going to look back
13:52on this window and be like, this was a magical, there was something in the air.
13:56Um, and we kind of wrote, I mean, we're still, still writing and finishing the album,
14:00but, um, there was just like this stretch of like, I don't know,
14:0310 days where it was like three songs a day.
14:06It felt like when we first started, cause that's how it was.
14:08It just, it's hard.
14:10Any songwriter could stand on them.
14:12I could say it.
14:12It's, it's not easy, especially as you've been doing this for a while.
14:15You put out albums.
14:16It's like, well, crap, we can't say that.
14:18We've already said from there.
14:19We've already done that.
14:20Or somebody else is saying it now.
14:21Yeah.
14:21Somebody's doing that.
14:22Yeah.
14:22And we talk about this with other artists and stuff, but it was just one of those
14:25like crazy wild inspiration streaks.
14:27We're like, let's keep going, keep going.
14:29We'd written five days straight.
14:30I remember you're like, should we do Saturday?
14:32Shay's like, yeah, let's go.
14:33We were just, your wives are like, please come home.
14:36It is though.
14:37It's like, when you find that inspiration, you go until the wheels fall off till you
14:40write like two bad songs in a row.
14:42Then you're like, ah, we're good.
14:43We're good.
14:43Yeah.
14:43Yeah.
14:44But you just get it while you can.
14:45And, um, I don't know.
14:46I feel like we wrote some of the most special songs we've ever, ever written.
14:50And now we're in a place where it's like, you know, people are, who are hearing them
14:53are like, you guys are in trouble.
14:54Like, what are you going to pick for radio?
14:56It's like, I don't know.
14:56That's a good problem to have.
14:57That's a great problem.
14:58It's a good problem to have.
14:59But either way, like whether the songs become singles or not, they all mean something to
15:03us.
15:03And that's this album, which we'll come back and see you and talk more about that.
15:07But everything we're doing on this album is going to be pertinent to our lives right
15:10now in one way, shape or form.
15:12And I'm not saying we're not going to do a walk into a bar heartbreak song again in the
15:16future.
15:16But this album in particular, and I'm not quite prepared to talk about all of it, but
15:21it's like every song is relevant to something in our life.
15:24It's a personal story.
15:26And I think when you get the most personal, it's counterintuitive.
15:29When you get the most personal, you reach the most people.
15:32Yeah.
15:33Whereas you would think like, let's write the most universal concept that doesn't have
15:36specifics.
15:37It's like when you get specific with something, I think people connect to that story and your
15:41connection to that song.
15:42Yeah.
15:42That's where music is so powerful.
15:43Yeah.
15:43Like hits you in the chest and you're like, oh, no doubt.
15:45I'm not alone.
15:46I feel seen.
15:47I feel, yeah.
15:47All those things.
15:48So it's just, I don't know.
15:49I feel like it's our best batch of work, you know, at least in a long time.
15:53It feels really inspired.
15:54Ideas are pouring out of us.
15:56You know, it's just when you hit a wall, it's like you can't come up with anything.
15:58But now it's like, what if we do this?
16:00It's just like, it's exciting.
16:01And it can feel like work sometimes where like, you know, when you're having to try to
16:06become creative and when you've been doing this for so long, sometimes it is like that
16:10where you get into the studio and it's like, all right, it's time to write a song, you
16:13know, and you get in there and it's like, you're grinding and
16:15grinding and trying to like create something out of nothing, which is already an insane
16:19concept to begin with.
16:20But we never had any of those preconceived notions when we first started getting together
16:24and writing.
16:25When I met Dan on December 7th in 2012, like we weren't like, hey, let's do this.
16:30Like we got together.
16:31We were so excited to be writing music and to create something.
16:34It was an overflow.
16:36It wasn't a reaching down deep into the well.
16:38And I think as time goes on, a lot of times we don't fill that well back up.
16:42You know, with the things that we're doing, like with the people that are around us, like
16:45I'm so blessed to like have Dan in my life.
16:48But I feel like, you know, there was years there where we got really depleted, where it's
16:51like we're on the road and you're going and you're going and you're going and you don't
16:54have those conversations that we're talking about right now.
16:57I think that literally saying something to like your friend sparks that conversation.
17:01Those kind of conversations are very life-giving.
17:03And I think that oftentimes we leave ourselves depleted.
17:05And when you're talking about, you know, for creatives, when you're having to pull something
17:09out that really isn't there, it's very difficult.
17:12It's hard to like fabricate that, you know.
17:14But with this, I mean, even, you know, talking about our wives being like, hey, come on.
17:17Like it was even for our wives could see it.
17:19Like I remember Hannah like telling me that after hearing this music from the very first
17:23song that we wrote on this project, it stopped feeling like work and started feeling like,
17:28oh, I'm working from a place of overflow because I feel so filled up to be writing these
17:33songs and have these conversations because you don't have to, you don't have to fabricate
17:36anything.
17:37You're just reaching for the truth.
17:38And I didn't have to like, we didn't have to reach too far to just look at our lives
17:42and be like, oh, let's write about that because it's happening and it's real.
17:45Let's write about our friend Ben.
17:47And this was heavy and this was hard.
17:49Let's write about these things that we're going through right now.
17:51And I think it was just so easy to be able to, you know, explain that, you know, through
17:55song.
17:56And it became very life-giving.
17:57It was this kind of cycle that was not depleting us.
18:00It was actually filling us up by, even though we were tighter than we've ever been like writing
18:04over those, those 10 days or whatever it was, it felt, it did not feel like work one
18:08single time.
18:09And Dan and I were always like, I mean, I'm not really doing anything tomorrow.
18:12Like you want to get together and even just talk about, you know, maybe we could edit this
18:15song or whatever.
18:16And it became very much like it was in the beginning where it was like, wow, we get to
18:20do music.
18:21This is amazing.
18:22Like we have this, this end product that we can be so proud of that we didn't have to
18:27dig super hard for.
18:29It was like, it was a gift, which music should feel like that.
18:32And I think it, like Dan said earlier, when it's personal, it feels counterintuitive where
18:36it's like, okay, am I just writing about this?
18:38No one's going to relate to this.
18:39I think when you really relate to yourself a hundred percent and you're a hundred percent
18:42honest, that's when people can look in there and be like, oh, I, not only do I, does he
18:46believe, but I'm also like going through that in, in ways.
18:49And you see that with music over time with a song, like from the ground up or whatever
18:53it is, we've had a lot of songs like that, that people then, because it was so personal
18:56to us, they, it becomes different to them, but it also becomes just as authentic
19:01to them as it is to us.
19:02And it's just a crazy thing that music only is able to do.
19:06And I think art is very similar to that, like with the painting, like the way that it makes
19:09somebody feel, but it's, it's, you're, you're dealing with real emotion and it's not fabricated.
19:14And like Dan said earlier, like the AI thing, it's the only way we combat this is by real
19:18stuff because you can't, it's getting really good, but it still can't, you know, fully do
19:23that, the human experience and be able to kind of, you know, fully flesh that out.
19:27Because I think it, at some point, not to get like too spiritual on it, I think that
19:31there is a spiritual element to music, the way that it affects you after the way that
19:34the song transcends words and melodies and all these things.
19:38So anyways, I'm rambling, but it's just, I've, I've never felt so excited about music because
19:43I feel like we took a part of our soul and was able to kind of put it, you know,
19:48to pen
19:48and paper and to music.
19:49And it's just a very exciting place to be in our lives and our career at this point,
19:54to have been doing this for a long time now and to feel just as invigorated as I did when
19:58we were walking into radio stations at 7am, you know, traveling around with these guys
20:02and being like, wow, man, not only like, am I excited to do this, but we have something
20:06here that we have something to offer the world and to be a part, that's why we wanted to say
20:10so to be the very first song.
20:11Cause like we have something that people need and we have to get this out to the world.
20:15And it's just an exciting place to be guys.
20:17Can we talk about how beautiful this is?
20:19Like the last handful of years, everything that you guys have been through, like you think
20:23about like what you two went through, right?
20:24Like, are we going to continue to do this as a duo and a band?
20:29And like, I know that you both were going through your own stuff and you came together
20:31and had these hard conversations and now you're making this like insanely beautiful
20:35music.
20:35Like I, this is the most inspired.
20:37I feel like I have seen you guys in a very long time.
20:39So it's amazing to sit across from you and hear like how excited you are for all of this.
20:44It feels so good, honestly, to get to come in here to see you always makes our day.
20:48I mean, you, you were part of that journey, you know, us getting to come in here and share
20:50those stories when we were struggling, going through it.
20:52And I don't know, it's always like, it feels real when we talk to you, it's beautiful.
20:57You're amazing at what you do.
20:58And I feel like when we come in here, not just gassing you up, but it's like, we feel
21:02a sense of comfort.
21:02I feel like we have real conversations together.
21:04We always have.
21:05And this one's no different.
21:06I just, I don't know.
21:08It just makes it easier.
21:09It makes it more enjoyable when you get to go travel around and talk about something you believe in.
21:12And if you don't, it's hard, you know, it's like, when you're talking about something
21:17or you're not feeling it, it's like, you can feel it inside.
21:20No, exactly.
21:21I could sit in here for eight hours and talk about this, right?
21:23No, I didn't be like, we can restate a little bit.
21:25I know.
21:26We talked about this yesterday with my team because, and I was thinking about when you're
21:29talking about Shay about like creativity, like I, I reference this all the time in interviews.
21:32People are so tired of hearing talk about it, but Rick Rubin's book about creativity,
21:35I think is like, really, I reread it like three days ago.
21:39I listened to it all the time just as like a reset for me because it changed.
21:43The audio was amazing with him doing the, unbelievable.
21:45And the gong at the end of every chapter.
21:47I recommend it to like literally every artist or someone in the creative space because it
21:50changed the way I like treat my creativity.
21:54It's like you were saying, like when I'm banging my head against the wall, trying to create
21:57a radio show out of nothing every single day.
21:59And I need five hours of stuff to talk about.
22:00That's hard.
22:01It's a lot.
22:02Yeah.
22:02And when I'm done, I'm so drained.
22:04Like yesterday I was like, I can't talk anymore.
22:05Goodbye.
22:05I'm leaving.
22:06Please don't ask me of anything else.
22:07Like that's where I'm at, like creatively.
22:09And so I've like learned to kind of like how to handle that creativity.
22:12But like when you're in that flow state of like, everything is amazing.
22:15It doesn't feel like work.
22:16I'm like, I'll work 24 hour days.
22:18What do you need from me?
22:19No doubt.
22:19A hundred percent.
22:20Yep.
22:20That's why we got into this business, you know?
22:22And sometimes it just takes conversations like this to remind us of why we got in this business.
22:25Exactly.
22:26You know, but like shout out to you.
22:27That's a tough, tough thing to do to come in here.
22:29You're in here.
22:30You're holding it down by yourself.
22:32Like to have to, it's like, you got to fill that much space.
22:34I don't know how you do it.
22:35So I don't know either, but I honestly do an incredible job.
22:38I feel lucky sometimes that I'm just by myself because then I don't have to like deal with,
22:42like I only have to deal with my own stuff.
22:44Sure.
22:44Like there's nobody else.
22:45It's only this ego we have to manage.
22:47There's not somebody else.
22:48Like I say all the time, I don't know how duos and groups do it.
22:51Like, thank God you guys had this like beautiful moment and you've worked through all that stuff.
22:55And I think like, you know, Lady A talks about that as well.
22:57Like it's just a lot more to manage when there's more people, like it's conversations.
23:01Like that is the biggest thing.
23:03Like it kind of points back to what we've been talking about with say, so like that's how
23:07we got through that was hard conversations and, and actually having communication.
23:12And I think that it really says a lot about society and like where we're at right now.
23:17I think that we've kind of lost that in a way we know everything, but we, we don't talk
23:22about anything.
23:22It's like, you can look at social media where it's like, I know things that are going on
23:26across the world and I, why do I know about it?
23:29Like social media, can I do anything about it?
23:31No, it's just everything all the time coming at you.
23:34It's a lot of anxiety and things that you can't change.
23:37And that's really tough, especially when you bottle it up and you just consume that.
23:41You consume bad news all day, every single day.
23:43It becomes very uninspiring to just walk around and exist.
23:48It's very, very difficult when you don't have someone to talk through these things.
23:51And I think in the same way as our duo would not survive, no duo would survive or trio
23:56or band or whatever it is without conversation.
23:58And you've seen that over the years and years.
23:59And it's like, well, what happened?
24:00It's like, well, they stopped talking.
24:02And I think it's like, yeah, FGL reunion.
24:05And like, they've been so open about this.
24:08And I think it's amazing.
24:09And it's all conversations where it's just, when you talk about things, you're able to
24:13kind of get back to that, just humanity of like, Hey, like I'm, we might believe this
24:17way.
24:18You might believe this way or whatever it is.
24:19When you stop talking, you lose the ability to, you lose humanity is what it is.
24:24You lose it completely.
24:25And I think that that's been a tough place for our country.
24:29Our world is at right now is like, we stopped having conversations and it was like, nope,
24:33it's too far gone.
24:34It's too far gone.
24:35We're not even going to talk about it.
24:36But more oftentimes than not, like when you talk about something, you either meet somewhere
24:41in the middle or you understand why someone believes the way they do.
24:43And it's a beautiful, beautiful thing.
24:45Um, but going back to like the mental health thing, like that is, that's why it's so important.
24:49Like those conversations, getting it out there, like it, it really, truly changes everything.
24:54And, uh, it's just a, it's amazing.
24:56It's just, it's cool that we're here now.
24:57This is like proof of concept.
24:59We're like, I told you like talking about things help.
25:01That's why it is.
25:02It's so easy for us to come here and talk about this because it's like, this is proof of
25:06concept of what we're talking about.
25:08Like you can, you can tell we have a lot to say about this.
25:11Like we don't have to be like, all right, I got my talking notes.
25:13We're going to talk about this.
25:14Like we didn't prepare for any of this.
25:16Like this is, it's so easy to talk about the truth.
25:19And that's a beautiful thing.
25:21I was just looking, we've been talking for 30 minutes and I feel like we've been sitting
25:24here for five.
25:24We just keep rambling.
25:26No, but guys, no, this is beautiful.
25:28This is the conversations I want to be having.
25:30Like, I don't want you to come in here and give me some pre-canned press answer.
25:33Like this is, this is so beautiful and fun.
25:35And I'm so happy that you guys are here.
25:37I do want to ask you like, what's been going on with life?
25:40Like I made a joke when you first sat down, like I couldn't find anything because you
25:43guys haven't been posting.
25:44Like, how are you?
25:45How are Abby and the dogs?
25:46Like what's going on in the world of Dan?
25:48So good.
25:49Honestly, life is good.
25:50Just, I haven't posted on social media.
25:52I don't know.
25:52I've got like this weird, like aversion to social media a little bit.
25:56I, I don't know.
25:57I just have enjoyed existing in the real world.
25:59I think some of us are dealing with that, but I understand that as we're firing this thing
26:04back up, like I'm going to have to post on social media.
26:07But it's, maybe we'll look a little different.
26:08It's like, this will be to stay in touch with our fans and to make them raise, like a raise
26:13awareness that we have music coming up that we think is important.
26:16And that's important to me.
26:17If we didn't believe in the music, I'd be like, God, I got to post that frigging TikTok.
26:21Now I'm like, I'm going to post a TikTok because I believe in this song.
26:24Exactly.
26:24I mean, I believe in the TikTok I'm posting, but like, I believe in this song and it's
26:28important to me.
26:28I know that that's a necessary evil to get the music out there to the people.
26:32But at the end of the day, like us coming and talking on country radio is like, that's
26:37what built our, what built our band and what built our career.
26:40So thank you for giving us a platform.
26:41Yeah, exactly.
26:43But life is good.
26:44Honestly, just, we talk about community being important.
26:47I feel like COVID, we kind of lost that sense of community a little bit.
26:49And I, maybe that's where like my mental health struggles and panic attacks and things came
26:54from where I just became a hermit.
26:56And I was like, this is so sick.
26:57Like I'm just on Pro Tools at my house by myself.
27:00Like Shay would come over, we'd make records.
27:01We were like the only ones who could make records during COVID.
27:04We put out a song called, I should probably go to bed.
27:06It closes all the studios, but I'm like, we can do it on our own at my house and still
27:10really fun song.
27:11But I think like, I didn't realize it until I started getting back in the swing of things.
27:16Like you got to be around people.
27:18Like we had a bunch of friends over our management team and some close friends were over the other
27:22night and we busted out a guitar and we were singing until three in the morning, like 19,
27:26we were singing our early stuff.
27:27And it was like, that's the vibe.
27:28That's like that sense of community we had when we moved to this town.
27:33Life happens.
27:33You get busy.
27:34If you don't nurture that and you don't go out of your way and be proactive to foster it,
27:38it can escape you.
27:39So we're just going for that.
27:40Like checking in on our friends, you know, we got buddies.
27:43It's like, man, I haven't talked to you in a while.
27:44Let's go grab a glass of wine or whatever.
27:46Let's go grab a meal.
27:47Let's grab lunch, grab coffee, those kinds of things.
27:50I don't know.
27:50Not just, maybe it's just getting older or whatever, but I don't know.
27:53I'm checking in on friends more.
27:54That's a combination of all of it.
27:56Probably drinking more than I should.
27:58Not in a bad way, but with friends.
27:59No, but like you feel good.
28:00I feel great.
28:01I'm not like raging.
28:03Well, sometimes I rage, but like, I don't know.
28:05Go grab a drink and catch up with somebody.
28:07Like it's important to me instead of just being like on socials at all times.
28:11And it, I can go down a rabbit hole on socials.
28:13Sometimes I'd be like, crap.
28:14I've been scrolling for one hour.
28:16What is the algorithm feeding me right now?
28:18I need to get off here.
28:19But then you're like, real life is pretty good if you let it be.
28:22Really good.
28:22That's just kind of what I'm trying to do right now.
28:24Cutting the grass again.
28:25It's growing.
28:26You know, weather's getting warm.
28:28Things, they are happening.
28:29Feel good about it.
28:30That's good.
28:30And how are you?
28:31How are the boys?
28:31Are you guys building a house?
28:33It's been great, man.
28:34Yeah, we've been building a house.
28:35It's wow.
28:36We've been spending a lot of time with our family.
28:38And like, I think that the beautiful thing, you know, with having kids and all these things,
28:42I've really realized how amazing it is to have, you know, a big family.
28:47Like I have a huge family.
28:49And so we've been trying to spend some more time with them.
28:50But the boys are, they're getting older.
28:53And it's a crazy world.
28:54Like we've been off the road for a little while.
28:56So it's this interesting time where like, I don't think Ames really knows our six-year-old.
29:00He doesn't really know like what I do for work.
29:01Like we had like, I was a mystery reader the other day at his school and he was like,
29:07had given clues.
29:08And I think one of the things that Hannah or his teacher had put down was like, was
29:11a coach on the show, The Voice.
29:13And like Ames got home and he was like, daddy, there was one of the clues I didn't understand.
29:17What was she talking about?
29:17The Voice.
29:18And I was like, oh, he has no idea like anything of like what our world has looked like before
29:22this.
29:22And it's kind of a beautiful thing.
29:24Like I'm just dad to them.
29:26And it's just been a fun thing to really reconnect and make that home base.
29:30You know, like I obviously, I love our job is incredible, but our real life and our real
29:36friendships, like this is our, that's our real life, you know, obviously.
29:39And I think that if we're able to have a really strong base there, it makes what we get to
29:43do here really easy because we're speaking from a place of truth and I'm talking about,
29:48you know, and singing about what's actually going on back home.
29:52And I think that's where a lot of people, as their career goes on, it becomes harder to
29:56write songs that are, that are real because in a lot of times their real life, they kind of
30:00lose that sense of community and like they get to be, you know, big stars and not so
30:04much in Nashville, but that's, you watch that happen in LA and a lot of these things, they
30:08lose touch with reality, not by their own fault necessarily, but that's the life that
30:12they're living.
30:12And I don't know, we just, we live very normal lives and like, we're just a dad and just,
30:18you know, hanging out with my kids and going over to my friend Dan's house and making music.
30:21Like it's a really beautiful thing.
30:22And I don't know, I'm, I'm having some more fun, like in my real life, uh, than I ever
30:27have.
30:28And just, it's a, especially when the music like starts to line up with that, maybe for
30:32the first time ever, I think bigger houses was like the first dive into that of like,
30:36of a song that we were singing with a message that I need to hear more than anybody else.
30:40Um, and that's what this new music feels like to me.
30:43It's very personal and it makes our own lives, like it enriches our life first.
30:48And I think that that's what it's going to do for people is really remind them to kind
30:52of look around and be like, life is a beautiful thing when we let it be like Dan said.
30:56And I don't know, it's a, it is, that's like life is beautiful and it's fleeting and it's,
31:01it's short.
31:02And that's kind of the whole point.
31:03That's what, you know, this album is kind of a dive into that of, of we only have so much
31:08time on this earth and that can be a scary thing and was a part of like why I had
31:12anxiety
31:12in 2020, like fear of death out of nowhere.
31:15And I was like, what is happening?
31:16Um, but that's, that's the point, you know, that's, that's the reason that life is so
31:20beautiful is because it is so fragile.
31:22Um, we only get so much time.
31:24So like enjoy these precious moments.
31:26You realize how every second that goes by, like grab it and like enjoy it because it's,
31:31it is fleeting, but that's a, it's a beautiful thing.
31:33And I think that we as a society need to become less distracted with things that don't
31:37matter.
31:38Um, and that we, we can't do anything about and look around at our community and look
31:41around at the people like you guys here in this room and be like, Hey, we, this is amazing.
31:45Like let's have these conversations and enjoy life.
31:48Cause it's, it's a beautiful thing.
31:49It really is.
31:50I, I'm happy to hear that you're getting to spend so much time with the boys, like so
31:53much.
31:53So the Ames doesn't even realize what you do.
31:55It made me think of, um, he's like, oh, he's the kid.
31:57He's the guy who drops me off at school in the morning.
31:59Yeah.
32:00Thomas wrote told me a story one time they were like out shopping in Franklin and somebody stopped
32:04him for a picture.
32:04And Ada James was like, why did they want a picture with you?
32:07And he was like, well, you know, like daddy makes music and sings and she's like so weird.
32:11Yeah.
32:11That's what I mean.
32:12Like it's, it's really humble.
32:14Exactly.
32:15But I think it's amazing that like, even like you're leading a really normal life and your
32:19kids are leading a really normal life.
32:20For sure.
32:20They have no idea.
32:21They have no idea what, what we do.
32:23They know that uncle Dan comes over sometimes and we talk about music stuff, but, uh, it'll
32:28be funny to know like later in life what they thought.
32:30Like if you were talking to Jennifer Wayne, she thought everyone's grandpa was on the TV.
32:33Like she didn't realize that only her grandpa, John Wayne was on the television, which I
32:36think is hilarious, but that's amazing guys.
32:39I have so enjoyed this.
32:40And if you didn't have somewhere to be after this, I would keep you here longer, but I
32:44love the next thing.
32:45Absolutely.
32:45It's always so good to see you.
32:46It's so good to see you guys too.
32:47I can't wait for you to do the rest of the stuff.
32:48I'm really excited.
32:49It's really special.
32:50Yeah.
32:50Send me a link.
32:51I want to hear what you got coming.
32:52Thank you guys for coming.
32:53Really appreciate it.
32:55Yeah.
32:55Yeah.
32:56Yeah.
32:56Yeah.
32:59Yeah.
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