Tom Rooney Joins the TDN Writers’ Room

thoroughbreddailynews

The NTRA’s Tom Rooney joins this week’s TDN Writers’ Room to discuss the impending federal tax on gambling, the SAFE Act, another successful NHC, and more.

Transcript

00:00:18and welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room. My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent

00:00:23for the Thoroughbred Daily News and the co-host of the Down the Stretch Radio Show on SiriusXM

00:00:28Radio with Dave Johnson. How y'all doing? Mi nombre es Randolfo Moss of NBC Sports and the

00:00:36buyer's speed figure crew. Hola, ¿qué pasa? Randolf, J. Moss, ¿todo bien? Zoe Cameron here.

00:00:45Bien, bien. Bill's a bit stumped here. Zoe Cameron, first TV and first racing. It's a glorious

00:00:53day here in the neighborhood. ¿Qué pasa, Bill? Yeah, I don't speak Spanish, but can we move on

00:00:59here, guys? That was totally off script, by the way, everyone. All right. Big weekend, obviously,

00:01:09of Kentucky Derby and Kentucky Oaks preps. And let's start down at the fairgrounds where I think that

00:01:13was fair to say was the marquee race of the weekend. And it was the Louisiana Derby. And it was

00:01:19won,

00:01:20as you well know, by emerging market in a game performance over Pavlovian. Doug O'Neill,

00:01:26boy, he's sneaky. He runs some horses in those races and they don't look so good on paper. And

00:01:30that horse ran his eyeballs out. But emerging market ran back to that big 97 buyer figure he earned in

00:01:37the Tampa Bay maiden race and gutted out the win for Chad Brown. But Zoe, here's the question. And I

00:01:46would direct our listeners and our viewers to read TD Thornton's column in Week in Review in Monday's

00:01:55TDN. Can a horse with only two lifetime starts win the Kentucky Derby? And that's a legitimate question

00:02:01according to TD's research. And this, he went down a Randy Moss-like rabbit hole. He found out that it's

00:02:08only been done once in 151 years of the Kentucky Derby. And only six horses have tried it since

00:02:161937. A talented horse. But, and I know the rules have changed over the years and it's gotten a lot

00:02:23easier for these lightly race horses. But is that a factor you would worry about if you were part of

00:02:27his team? Who was the one?

00:02:30Uh, I don't know. Horse that won a long, long time ago.

00:02:35Okay. Um, he's a good horse. He did regress slightly at a 90 buyer speed figure. Uh, tip of

00:02:43the hat to the runner up Pavlovian, who not only gutted it out in the Sunderland Derby under

00:02:49Edward Maldonado, he did the same thing, got hooked by Autobahn, went ridiculously fast fractions, 22 and

00:02:55three, 46 and one, one, 10 and four. We know a track record was set later in the day with

00:03:00touch

00:03:00upon a star who we'll get to. So the track was fast, but the horse that hooked Pavlovian ran last.

00:03:07So tip of the hat to Pavlovian, the homebred for Redham Racing. Emerging market, buy candy ride out of

00:03:14a half sister to she be wild. She took down the Breeders' Cup juvenile fillies. Looks like a good prospect

00:03:19moving forward. And why not? I mean, yes, he's had two starts. He's going to lack some seasoning,

00:03:26but he certainly doesn't run like a green horse. He got a terrific ride under Pratt. He just seems to

00:03:31put his horses in all the right spots. Pratt only won two races, you know, on Saturday when Jose won

00:03:38five, but don't feel bad for him. The Derby and the Oaks doubles, not bad at all. It was a

00:03:44good race

00:03:44for emerging market. And to answer your question, I would not be worried. I wasn't even going to talk

00:03:50about that, Bill, but now you got my juices going with this, with this thing, these rules,

00:03:54these Kentucky Derby rules, which pretty much mean absolutely nothing. If, if emerging market is good

00:04:01enough, he'll win, whether he's got two starts or four starts or eight starts or 15 starts, right?

00:04:08He's proven that he's professional beyond his experience. So that's not a problem. It's just

00:04:14a factor, in my opinion, of if he's good enough. Look, when I first came around and when you first

00:04:18came around, Bill, people thought that horses coming out of the Santa Anita Derby were at a big

00:04:25disadvantage because they hadn't run in three weeks going into the Kentucky Derby when all the other

00:04:30prep races, the Bluegrass was nine days, the Arkansas Derby, the Wood, Florida, they were two weeks.

00:04:37Three weeks was a big problem for some people for Santa Anita Derby horses. So look, it just,

00:04:43it's all according to the times and the trends and where we are right now. Now, having said that,

00:04:51I don't think emerging market is good enough. He did regress from 97 buyer to a 90. About five points

00:05:00of that regression can be explained with a slight weight increase and also a wider trip.

00:05:07Then emerging market got at Tampa where he was on the rail around both turns until he veered out

00:05:13nearing the top of the stretch. That ground loss does factor into the numbers. So he didn't regress

00:05:19that much. But what I was hoping is, and I loved his maiden win at Tampa, I was hoping to

00:05:26see a move

00:05:27forward in his second lifetime start. And we didn't get that. And not only that, he had to survive a

00:05:34real

00:05:34dogfight with a tough, tough horse in Pavlovian, who, as Zoe pointed out, was just incredibly stubborn

00:05:42and difficult to pass. Now, emerging market was bothered a bit. Pavlovian drifted out and carried

00:05:51him a little wide down the stretch. If Pavlovian had won, if he had gotten his head down on the

00:05:59wire,

00:05:59there probably would have been a foul claim. I don't think that he would have been disqualified.

00:06:05But, you know, but that was that was an issue. Chip Poncho ran poorly because he didn't make

00:06:12the early lead. They ran a lot faster early in the Louisiana Derby than they did in Chip Poncho's

00:06:18Risen Star, which was a surprise to a lot of people, including Doug O'Neill and Edwin Maldonado,

00:06:25the the trainer and the jockey of Pavlovian. They told me before the race, Doug O'Neill told me

00:06:30that they were both shocked that Pavlovian was on the lead in the Sunland Derby or right with the

00:06:37leaders. They didn't think he had that kind of speed at all. And I asked Doug, all right, so for

00:06:42the

00:06:42Louisiana Derby, is this like more of a stamina horse or a speed horse? Oh, he's more of a stamina

00:06:46horse. They did not expect him to be on the lead in the Louisiana Derby like he was. And he

00:06:52wasn't asked to

00:06:53be there. He just took himself there and proved to be just incredibly courageous. So the bottom

00:06:59line, I golden tempo also moved up a little bit. The distance is going to move him up in the

00:07:05Kentucky

00:07:06Derby. But I don't think this race is going to be a is going to wind up being a key

00:07:14prep for the

00:07:15Kentucky Derby, in my opinion. So touching upon a couple other races at Fairgrounds, the Fairgrounds

00:07:21Oaks went to Life of Joy. Gee, Brad Cox is another good three year old filly. There's a story we

00:07:27haven't heard for a while. And you know what I liked about this story is doesn't this make Zany

00:07:33look all that much better? Who would have thought that the Suncoast stakes at Tampa Bay Downs could

00:07:40be the key prep race going forward for the Kentucky Oaks? Zany won it, beat Life of Joy comfortably

00:07:48in there. And Life of Joy came back to win what is traditionally one of the very top preps always

00:07:55for

00:07:55the Kentucky Oaks. And not only did she win it, she won it decisively. She won by three and three

00:08:02quarter lengths. Bella Ballerina is a good horse, but she was not good enough that day to beat Life of

00:08:10Joy. And I think that if she can beat Zany, which might be the story going into the Kentucky

00:08:18Oaks, if anybody can beat her, if she wins the Ashland, I think she definitely belongs in the

00:08:22mix, Randy. Yeah, I think Zany right now is probably the top rated three year old filly. But I will

00:08:29say

00:08:30this. On one hand, she beat Life is Joy in the Suncoast comfortably, as you said. And she did it

00:08:36despite the fact that Zany was running like a stretch, a snake, through the last eighth of a

00:08:40mile. I mean, she was lugging in. She was really, really out of sorts that last eighth of a mile.

00:08:48Probably bored because she was clearly in front. But having said that, Life is Joy took a big step

00:08:55forward from that race into the Fairgrounds Oaks. I'm not sure Zany could have beaten Life of Joy

00:09:01running the way she did in the Suncoast if Life is Joy had run the way she did at the

00:09:06Fairgrounds

00:09:07Oaks. So it's a lot closer between these two horses than I think the Suncoast would make you

00:09:11think. Bella Ballerina, one point about her. And it may be pertinent, it may not be pertinent.

00:09:17They're two different horses. But her half sister, Pretty Mischievous, that won the Kentucky Oaks,

00:09:22okay, also took the same path. Both Pretty Mischievous and Bella Ballerina came into the Fairgrounds

00:09:30Oaks with enough points to make the Kentucky Oaks. They didn't need to be trained hard

00:09:35to win the Fairgrounds Oaks. They already had their Kentucky Oaks spot set. Pretty Mischievous,

00:09:42tailed off. They didn't really, really bear down on her training for the Fairgrounds Oaks.

00:09:48And she tailed off and was beaten in that race. And then she bounces back in the Kentucky Oaks.

00:09:54And I think she improves her buyer by like 11 points when they really knuckle down on her training.

00:10:00So the fact that Bella Ballerina regressed a bit and finished second, you don't throw her out of

00:10:06the mix just yet, because that was her first lifetime defeat. And I think she's right in there

00:10:12with Explora, Bottle of Rouge, Counting Stars, She Be Smooth. There's about a half a dozen horses

00:10:18there that I think belong on the short list for the Kentucky Oaks.

00:10:22And Life is Joy got a good bit of seasoning there. Perfect ride by Pratt under her.

00:10:26I think he only hit her three times and she just won going away like a good thing.

00:10:31So she is definitely taking big steps forward. Zaney's still got to learn how to run in the

00:10:36straight line. We'll see if she can do that in the Ashland. That will be the telling for sure.

00:10:42Now, Randy has always had more than one favorite horse. So I am going to tell you,

00:10:49Bookumdano was, in fact, sometimes he's had seven or eight favorite horses.

00:10:53And we'll get to two fills a little bit later. How are we getting Bookumdano into this discussion

00:10:57here? This is interesting. I got to tell you, Touchuponistar is sneaking up on old Dano

00:11:02is my favorite horse. Is this horse a great story or what? The sensational New Orleans

00:11:10classic winner for the second straight year, the Louisiana bred, who is now a run, won 21 races,

00:11:1818 of them stakes, won the New Orleans classic for the second straight year and set a track record.

00:11:27I think we're going to talk about that a little bit more later. And, you know, he's I think he's

00:11:33the most underrated horse in racing, but there's a reason for that. The connections have largely

00:11:37kept him in Louisiana bred competition. And I guess, you know, I would ask you, are they being too

00:11:43conservative with the horse? And, you know, I'm going to kind of waver on this, I think maybe a

00:11:48little bit. But at the same time, they're having an awful lot of fun. They're winning races. I know

00:11:54they love to run in their home state, the DeLome family and Jake DeLome, the old quarterback. And

00:11:59he told me once, you know, every time we run in these races, when we say, I want you to

00:12:02our paid

00:12:03workouts, you know, our whole family comes out and everybody's local. We have a great time. So I'm not

00:12:07going to criticize the way they've managed this horse. They've made two million dollars. But

00:12:11I would say, Randy, I'll show this to you first, but but maybe shy of Knightsbridge and

00:12:18maybe until Sovereignty comes back, I think he might be the second fastest horse in the

00:12:23country. Oh, yeah. When he when he beat Sierra Leone last year in this race, I do the

00:12:30fairgrounds figures and the race comes up a 109 and people were like, come on, you give

00:12:36a Louisiana bred a 109 buyer's speed figure. I didn't give him anything. That's what he

00:12:41ran. And then he comes back and he runs a 108 at Delta. Now he's run 106 is back to

00:12:46back. I mean,

00:12:46this horse is just an absolute superstar. But I will say this, this, this reminds me a lot

00:12:52of the discussion that we had last fall about next. Remember that horse? Yeah, winning at a mile

00:13:00and three quarters, winning at a mile and a half. You know, everybody's like, oh, run him in the

00:13:04Breeders Cup Classic. Why? This horse is dominating in his domain. And he's confident. He's got, you

00:13:13know, everything going his way and they're having a great time with him. You know, and I don't think

00:13:17he's run since then. I mean, why throw him into the wolves at a distance that, you know, that he

00:13:22might not like and whatever. Touch upon a stars had three races in his life outside the state of

00:13:28Louisiana. He lost all three to horses that he shouldn't be able to warm him up. I mean, I don't

00:13:34know why. But what they're doing right now, Zoe, is clearly working and Jake and Jeff DeLome are having

00:13:41a great time. What was the track record he smashed? It was one like 148.2 something, whatever, or 147

00:13:52.2

00:13:52something. So he smashed it by a good margin. Yeah. And he went honest fractions, 22 and three,

00:14:0046 and two, 109 and four, 134 and 146.84. So tip of the hat to the connections. If you're

00:14:07wondering

00:14:08where Tim Thornton was, his regular jockey, he usually wears the blue boots. So it's easy to spot

00:14:13Timmy. I reached out to him. I'm like, where the hell were you? Ironically, he said he broke his leg

00:14:20a week or two before on a first time starter for Jake. He's expected to heal up pretty soon

00:14:26and he'll be on him for his next start. But Arrieta did a very good job of subbing for him.

00:14:31Just

00:14:31holding on. I think I could have written him to be perfectly honest. So he's always Marcelino

00:14:36Pedroza. Oh, Marcelino Pedroza. Sorry. Well, he did a good job, too. I could have written him next time

00:14:42you need a job. Just call me up. He's probably going to be a high weight. So I could probably

00:14:47do that.

00:14:47And I'll just, you know, lean back and enjoy the ride.

00:14:51Arrieta would have won on him, too. You're right. Here you go. All right. Absolutely.

00:14:55So let's turn our attention to Turfway Park, where the big race was the Jeff Ruby Stakes.

00:15:01Love that purse. $777,000. Won by full effort. Another Brad Cox trainee. Irad Ortiz took over the

00:15:11mountain. No knock on Vincent Cheminade. But anytime you can get Irad Ortiz, that's a good thing.

00:15:18Randy, I'm going to let you kind of take this over. I kind of poo-pooed this race a little

00:15:23bit

00:15:23because I, you know, I just, ah, keys. These horses got to go from synthetic to dirt. Full effort has

00:15:29never run on the dirt before. But, you know, going back and looking at it, you know, that's why Santa's

00:15:35going to bring up two fills, your favorite horse of all time. He came out of this race and ran

00:15:39that

00:15:39bang up race in the Kentucky Derby that you're still talking about all these years later.

00:15:43Rich Strike came out of this race to win the Kentucky Derby. Seized the Gray, didn't win

00:15:49the Kentucky Derby, but he came out of it and won the Preakness. So maybe that's a little

00:15:52bit unfair to the Jeff Ruby. It has produced some very good horses. But, you know, I still

00:15:58think as a handicapper, you have to look at the fact that, you know, Brad Cox has chosen

00:16:04to run this horse on synthetic and grass only. He had to have a reason for that. He made an

00:16:09awful

00:16:09lot of money with the horse, which is what he does because he's such a good trainer.

00:16:13But the big question is, does he transfer his form to the dirt? We'll find out in a little

00:16:18more than five weeks in the Kentucky Derby, Randy.

00:16:21I want to hear what Zoe has to say about this. Zoe, what's your thought about it?

00:16:24I guess we'll have to wait and see. He's never run on the dirt. He trains on it. He's by

00:16:30Liam's

00:16:31map who will give you just about any kind of horse you want. He's a half to power squeeze

00:16:37who's dirt. Call on mischief. Dirt. I'm thinking that Brad Cox is just like, if it ain't broke,

00:16:44don't fix it. Let's get to the Derby. He's got enough points and we'll take it from there.

00:16:49I, myself as a horse lover, have a hard time, you know, throwing horses to the wolves in the

00:16:55Kentucky Derby because we've seen over the years how many horses. Honestly, it's ruined.

00:17:01And I've never had a horse that's got into the Derby, so I don't quite know about Derby

00:17:05fever, so to speak, but it ruins a hell of a lot of horses each and every year that

00:17:12really will go on and do other things. Look at endlessly who ran in this race. He's never been

00:17:18quite the same. He got his ticket to the Kentucky Derby and then he ran, um, he ran in it,

00:17:26didn't run

00:17:26any good. And it took Michael McCarthy, the best part of well over a year to kind of get him

00:17:31to where

00:17:31he even really wanted to run. So that, that's my biggest thing here, but you know, it's up to the

00:17:36owners. I understand Derby fever. Look, this is a huge, this is a huge question. It is this horse

00:17:44going to perform as well on dirt as he did on synthetic in the Jeff Ruby. It's a huge question

00:17:50because his race in the Jeff Ruby was better than emerging markets race in the Louisiana Derby.

00:17:57This is, if this horse translates his form to the dirt, he's going to move up at a mile and

00:18:02a quarter

00:18:03because that's his running style. Yeah. Last year, final gambit trained by Brad Cox comes out of this

00:18:09race and finishes fourth. This is a solidly better horse than final gambit. Okay. Uh, the reason why

00:18:16Brad Cox has never run him on the dirt before is that when he was training him as a two

00:18:22-year-old on dirt,

00:18:23uh, he was showing absolutely no speed whatsoever. And Brad knew that if he ran him on the dirt

00:18:31with a horse that lacks this kinds of speed, uh, he would probably get his head handed to him.

00:18:38And he thought it was better to start him on the grass instead where late speed is of course,

00:18:44uh, you know, more rewarded than it is on dirt. And he ran well on grass and then he had

00:18:48to decide,

00:18:48okay, what do I do with him now? Do I take him with me to Florida or do I send

00:18:53him to Turfway? And he

00:18:55said, I'm going to do with this horse, the same thing. This is my final gambit of 2026. I'm going

00:19:01to run him in the, in the big races leading up to the Jeff Ruby and we'll see how he

00:19:05does. And all right

00:19:07now, so at a mile and a quarter on dirt, he's, he's bred to handle dirt. You pointed it out,

00:19:13Zoe Liam's map. He's a half to power squeeze. I think this is a, this is a legitimate threat to

00:19:20hit the board in the Kentucky Derby. If he, uh, if he handles dirt. And I'll say one thing that

00:19:26turf horses do seem to like Churchill downs for whatever reason, I'm not really quite sure what

00:19:33it is, but turf horses will take to that dirt track quite well. Look at the quarter pole. I thought

00:19:38stark contrast was gone. Yeah. And then in about three seconds, all of a sudden he was behind.

00:19:45I mean, full effort really, really ran well. All right. We're going to take a break and we're

00:19:51going to hear from our friends at Keeneland. After that, we'll have the Gainesway guests of the week,

00:19:54Tom Rooney, the president and CEO of the NTRA. Stay with us.

00:19:59Do want to remind you that the TDN as always is brought to you by Keeneland. Nominate now for the

00:20:05April horses of racing age sale. It will be held on the conclusion of the final day of racing at

00:20:11Keeneland on Friday, April the 24th, where you can win well, sell well, and reload. Last year,

00:20:18Normandy coast won the April the 6th palisades at Keeneland. And just two weeks later, he bought a

00:20:24whopping 355,000 at this sale for his owners. Also entries for the gargantuan Keeneland September sale,

00:20:33the world's highest grossing sale in history, open on April the 1st. God, is it that time already?

00:20:39And the months just seem to fly back. All right, we'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.

00:20:46We do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday.

00:20:51So the stands will still be packed in 50 years.

00:20:55That's why we come to work every day. Obsess over every single detail.

00:21:03Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time.

00:21:07And the future of our industry deserves nothing less.

00:21:12Keeneland. Every moment matters.

00:21:16The fastest horse of the week brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.

00:21:20We promised you last week we would give him his due this week.

00:21:23And here we go.

00:21:24Two fills.

00:21:25One of my favorites.

00:21:26We just talked about full efforts winning the Jeff Ruby stakes this past weekend.

00:21:29Just three years ago, two fills looked awfully good winning the Jeff Ruby.

00:21:33Won it by five and a quarter lengths.

00:21:34Just .31 seconds off the track record.

00:21:37And just like a sire hard spun,

00:21:38two fills had been a two-time stakes winner as a two-year-old prior to winning the Jeff Ruby.

00:21:44And just like hard spun, two fills went on after the Jeff Ruby to finish second in the Kentucky Derby.

00:21:50That would be behind Mage in 2023.

00:21:53And we get to meet the first yearlings by two fills this summer.

00:21:57Two fills stands at Windstar Farm for a fee of just $7,500.

00:22:02Fastest horse of the week we have already discussed in some detail.

00:22:05What a performance it was again by Touch Upon a Star in the New Orleans Classic.

00:22:10Now back-to-back buyer speed figures of 106.

00:22:14And for, I don't know, the 17th time, Touch Upon a Star is our fastest horse of the week.

00:22:26Welcome in now to Gainesway Guests of the Weekend.

00:22:29It is the president and CEO of the National Thoroughbred Racing Association,

00:22:33a person that's familiar to everyone in racing, Tom Rooney.

00:22:36Always good to have Tom on, but a lot going on in Washington and D.C. to talk about.

00:22:41And that's a reason why we wanted to have him on at this particular time.

00:22:45Tom, welcome and thanks for joining us.

00:22:47Thanks very much for having me.

00:22:49Well, there's a couple things that, well, actually one major thing that horse players and gamblers in general,

00:22:56be they poker players or sports wagerers or whatever, are up in arms.

00:23:02And granted, being horse fans and horse players ourselves, we're kind of biased,

00:23:07but they should be up in arms because part of the one big beautiful bill was a provision

00:23:12where horse players could no longer deduct 100% of their losses against their earnings.

00:23:19So, for instance, if you made $100,000 gambling and you lost $100,000, you could only deduct 90%

00:23:27of that.

00:23:27So you would essentially be paying tax on money that you did not earn.

00:23:31Now, there is two bills that have been introduced to try to take this provision away and to make it

00:23:40more fair.

00:23:41One is called the Fair Bet Act.

00:23:42It was sponsored by Nevada Democratic Congresswoman Dina Tuttas.

00:23:47And then there's also the Wager Act, sponsored by Annie Barr, a Kentucky Republican.

00:23:53Can you bring us up to speed on what's going on in Washington about both these bills?

00:23:58And at the end of the day, do you think there's reason for optimism that what, again,

00:24:04we think is a very unfair tax on horse players is going to be done away with?

00:24:11Well, as you know, what's going on in Washington right now is a lot of things that don't have anything

00:24:18to do

00:24:18with the regular machinations of doing business.

00:24:24That's not because of what's happening in Iran and, you know, the TSA issue, obviously, with ICE at the airports.

00:24:35You know, now we're solely focused on those things before we get ready to leave on an election year for

00:24:44recess,

00:24:45which usually happens in August.

00:24:47And in election years, there's a lot of times where we don't come back until almost election time.

00:24:53And there is, you know, hope in a lame duck, especially if the Republicans lose the House,

00:25:01to try to sort of clean up a lot of the things that they wanted to get done while they

00:25:07were in the majority.

00:25:09The safe, I'm sorry, the Wager Act and the Fair Bet Act have been a priority for our office.

00:25:18We have gone up and down the halls of Congress to explain to a lot of members that, quite frankly,

00:25:25and, you know, I don't think it's unfair to them, but they did not know what this issue was,

00:25:30did not know that it was in the Big Beautiful Bill, or I should say that it wasn't in the

00:25:35Big Beautiful Bill.

00:25:36And this is a great example, by the way, of sometimes there is an effort to find dollars,

00:25:45to find money somewhere in an effort to show that this bill is being paid for in some way.

00:25:52And one of the avenues that, quite frankly, it was most likely a staffer on one of the committees

00:25:59that saw this as a means to get money for the Big Beautiful Bill,

00:26:08and what better way to do it than people that are engaged in a gambling activity.

00:26:13So the short-sightedness of this is that you probably are looking at about a billion dollars in pay-for,

00:26:24but when you talk about the people that are participating at the level that these people are

00:26:32that would trigger this kind of attacks, as you guys know, what's going to end up happening

00:26:39is that they're going to probably end up taking their business elsewhere or greatly reducing their activity.

00:26:46So the unintended consequence of this effort to gain revenue by the government

00:26:53is that they're probably going to end up losing even more

00:26:56because the people that bet at that level aren't going to or they're going to go somewhere else.

00:27:00So you're really going to lose more than what you think you're gaining.

00:27:07So, Tom, maybe four or five months ago, there had been a little optimism

00:27:11that perhaps this could get done quickly in Washington

00:27:14and then it could be applied retroactively to 2025.

00:27:19For us, it's easy to understand how unfair this is.

00:27:24With everything else going on in Washington,

00:27:26how difficult is it to break through and convince people

00:27:30who don't know anything about horse racing what this is all about?

00:27:35It's difficult in the sense that, you know, on one hand,

00:27:38it's such a sort of narrowly focused issue for us that is very important,

00:27:46but for the rest of the United States might be something that they would consider an afterthought,

00:27:53especially with everything else going on.

00:27:55Now, when you have big issues that affect a lot of people,

00:28:00then you, you know, motivate the base to call your congressman,

00:28:03call your senator, those type of things.

00:28:05However, on an issue like this, similar to what we tried to do

00:28:10and what we accomplished with HISA,

00:28:12and like there was, do you remember, we had HISA,

00:28:15there was a court ruling that said that there was this little problem with HISA,

00:28:19so we went back, Congress later, and got it fixed,

00:28:23which was a minor miracle, to appease that court.

00:28:28And then once we did that, the court came back and said,

00:28:31okay, you're good now.

00:28:32So, you know, so that was very good for HISA.

00:28:35But with regard to this,

00:28:37sometimes when you're kind of below the radar like this,

00:28:40if there is a bill, a must-pass bill,

00:28:43that means something that's definitely getting to the president's desk,

00:28:47and we can attach either the Fair Bet Act or the Wager Act onto it,

00:28:53whether it be a continuing resolution,

00:28:55whether it be a debt limit vote,

00:28:58or whether it be some kind of a bigger bill

00:29:02where people are kind of, you know,

00:29:04putting different ornaments on the Christmas tree.

00:29:06You know, they always like to avoid those, but it does happen.

00:29:10I seriously doubt you're going to get on anything with this TSA stuff,

00:29:15but there will be legislation by the end of the year

00:29:19that we'll have to get to the president's desk.

00:29:22And if there are certain things that are fixes in the tax bill

00:29:26or the big, beautiful bill that people want to get done

00:29:29before we potentially, the Republicans, sorry,

00:29:33potentially lose the House,

00:29:35that would be a time where you could work your relationships

00:29:39on the committees, get it included,

00:29:43hope it gets to the president's desk,

00:29:45and lo and behold, just like the HISA fix that we had,

00:29:48we get it in there.

00:29:49Now, this is where our relationships matter,

00:29:52our friendships, especially in the Ways and Means Committee,

00:29:56where this would originate as a fix with other tax legislation.

00:30:04As you guys know, the Ways and Means Committee initiates all tax legislation.

00:30:09This being a tax issue, would go through there.

00:30:14We have a very close relationship there with the chairman, Jason Smith,

00:30:19and he has tasked a member from Ohio named Max Miller.

00:30:24If there's any Ohio listeners out there

00:30:28who have Max Miller as their congressman,

00:30:30please tell them it's important that he be contacted,

00:30:34that is trying to sort of be our champion here.

00:30:38And so we've been working with both of those offices

00:30:40that if there is any kind of fixes on the tax bill

00:30:44that get attached to something else,

00:30:46that go to the president's desk,

00:30:48that we would like to be included.

00:30:50And the good news is that Jason has no issue with this.

00:30:54In the Senate, there doesn't seem to be an issue

00:30:57with Chairman Crapo and finance.

00:31:01So it's nice when those guys don't have an issue.

00:31:04There's a couple other people for different reasons oppose this,

00:31:09but I don't know that it's enough to kill our efforts.

00:31:13Well, let's hope something gets done.

00:31:15I have a good friend of mine who bets like $10 million a year,

00:31:18and he simply said if this doesn't go through

00:31:22or it does go through in a bad way for the gamblers,

00:31:24he's going to have to quit.

00:31:25He's like, I can't afford to be doing that.

00:31:28And we need that kind of revenue from the gamblers.

00:31:32What about the SAFE Act, Tom?

00:31:34Are we pushing that?

00:31:35Yeah, the SAFE Act is, you know,

00:31:39been entered or sponsored.

00:31:43We used to say dropped

00:31:45because there's literally a wooden box

00:31:47in the front of the dais of the speaker's podium there

00:31:50where you drop a piece of paper in that box,

00:31:53and that's called dropping a bill.

00:31:56Congressman Buchanan has been a co-sponsor

00:31:59of the SAFE Act for,

00:32:01well, before I got to Congress in 08,

00:32:04and every year he introduces that along with others.

00:32:08And, you know, it always gets a lot of co-sponsors.

00:32:13As I've said, I think, before,

00:32:18the problem with the SAFE Act

00:32:21and the horse slaughter issue,

00:32:23what you may not be aware of,

00:32:27and I certainly was not aware of

00:32:28when I first got elected to Congress,

00:32:30that this is a hugely hot-button issue,

00:32:33especially when it comes to Western Republicans

00:32:36who, in a way, look at horses as livestock

00:32:43in the way that they would look at,

00:32:45you know, cattle or pork.

00:32:49For them to agree

00:32:52that there's a difference for equines,

00:32:56they feel like it's a slippery slope

00:32:58to beef cattle.

00:33:00And so they have been hard and fast

00:33:05opposed to the SAFE Act

00:33:07because they don't want

00:33:09the next shoe to drop be beef.

00:33:13And so when I first got elected,

00:33:17I represented parts of Wellington, Florida,

00:33:20which, as you know,

00:33:20is a huge equine population.

00:33:22And a lot of the people that were involved

00:33:25in the activity in Wellington

00:33:29asked me to support the SAFE Act,

00:33:31to which I said, sure,

00:33:32I don't like the idea of slaughtering horses

00:33:34or having them shipped to Canada or Mexico

00:33:37for that purpose.

00:33:38And so I cannot tell you

00:33:41the kind of holy hell

00:33:43that I got in the men's,

00:33:45or in the cloakroom

00:33:46from members from the Western part

00:33:48of our country

00:33:48about what are you ruining,

00:33:50what are you doing?

00:33:50Like, this is really,

00:33:52really a bad decision

00:33:53and just a lot of emotional pressure.

00:33:57And I mean, these, you know,

00:33:59these members of Congress

00:34:01are representing their constituents too,

00:34:03so I understand that.

00:34:04But what we've been able to do

00:34:08on the Appropriations Committee,

00:34:10the Agriculture Appropriations Committee,

00:34:12is they're still rendering plants

00:34:15out west for horses,

00:34:16just the same as there are

00:34:17for cows and everything else.

00:34:19But what we do is

00:34:20we don't fund the inspections

00:34:22of horse slaughter,

00:34:23so they can't do it here.

00:34:25So that's why the SAFE Act

00:34:27specifically talks about

00:34:29shipping to Mexico and Canada

00:34:31for the same purpose.

00:34:34And, you know,

00:34:36that's basically how we avoid

00:34:38doing it in the United States.

00:34:40And I think, and rightly so.

00:34:43I mean, if you follow anything

00:34:44across the pond,

00:34:45one of the things that they go after

00:34:47in like Ireland and England

00:34:48is they get cameras

00:34:49in those rendering plants

00:34:50and they show videos.

00:34:52And it's really hard.

00:34:53I have friends that work

00:34:54in the horse racing business

00:34:56in Ireland,

00:34:57and it's really hard for them

00:34:58to try to explain that away

00:35:00to people that are seeing it

00:35:02for the first time.

00:35:03The fact that we don't have it here

00:35:04really does help.

00:35:06But that all being said,

00:35:09there is rumors,

00:35:09to answer your question,

00:35:11that some iteration of the SAFE Act

00:35:13might be attached

00:35:14to this year's farm bill.

00:35:16And this farm bill

00:35:17is a much scaled back farm bill

00:35:19than we had before.

00:35:20And it might be something

00:35:22that gets bipartisan support.

00:35:26At the same time,

00:35:28it might also be something

00:35:30that kills the whole farm bill,

00:35:32I've been told,

00:35:33because of the emotion

00:35:34of those members from the West.

00:35:38So it's kind of like

00:35:40a slippery slope issue

00:35:41when it comes to,

00:35:43can we get it on the farm bill?

00:35:44If yes,

00:35:45are those Western Republicans

00:35:47willing to take down

00:35:48the entire farm bill

00:35:50because of horse slaughter?

00:35:51And the answer is yes,

00:35:53they will.

00:35:54It's that emotional

00:35:55of an issue for them.

00:35:58So that's where we are.

00:35:59The SAFE Act,

00:36:00not to be confused

00:36:01with the SAFE Act,

00:36:02which you've been hearing

00:36:02on TV a lot,

00:36:04which has to do

00:36:05with voter identification.

00:36:08Well, actually, Tom,

00:36:09I mean, that's discouraging

00:36:10to hear you say that.

00:36:11But I know that,

00:36:12you know,

00:36:13you and others

00:36:14are working hard on this.

00:36:15I want to go back

00:36:16before we move on

00:36:17to other topics,

00:36:18back to the

00:36:19one big beautiful bill thing

00:36:21because this makes

00:36:22my blood boil

00:36:23as it should,

00:36:25not only as a horse player,

00:36:26but, you know,

00:36:27it's a cliche,

00:36:28but this is so un-American

00:36:30to tax people

00:36:32when they're not making money,

00:36:34to actually tax somebody

00:36:36who, theoretically,

00:36:37if you do the math,

00:36:38could actually be losing money

00:36:40gambling

00:36:41and still be taxed on this.

00:36:43That's right.

00:36:43The people that are standing

00:36:45in the way,

00:36:46the people that say

00:36:47this is a good idea,

00:36:49what on earth

00:36:49is their argument for,

00:36:51and I know you explained

00:36:52that it was important

00:36:53to put some extra money

00:36:54into the bill

00:36:55and everything,

00:36:55but from the people

00:36:57who say,

00:36:57you know,

00:36:58Tom,

00:36:58we're not for this,

00:37:01the Fair Bet Act

00:37:03or the Wager Act,

00:37:04I can't imagine

00:37:05how they justify this.

00:37:06What do they tell you?

00:37:08There's members of Congress

00:37:09and the Senate

00:37:10that believe

00:37:11that gambling

00:37:11is a sin

00:37:12and they are,

00:37:14their whole,

00:37:15their whole sort of mantra

00:37:17about politics

00:37:19is piety

00:37:21and that,

00:37:22you know,

00:37:23this is a tax

00:37:23essentially on sin

00:37:25and so it's an easy one

00:37:26and there's,

00:37:28there's staffers

00:37:29that work

00:37:29for these senators

00:37:30and it's mostly senators.

00:37:33There's a couple of them

00:37:34that,

00:37:35you know,

00:37:35will die on this hill

00:37:37if they have to

00:37:37and they believe

00:37:39that they're doing it

00:37:40for the right reasons

00:37:41and the people

00:37:42that are getting hurt

00:37:43are,

00:37:44they're not really victims

00:37:46that,

00:37:46you know,

00:37:48people are going to shed

00:37:48too many tears over.

00:37:50So,

00:37:51but,

00:37:52what,

00:37:53what these people

00:37:54are involved in

00:37:55is legal.

00:37:56It's,

00:37:57uh,

00:37:58traditional in this country

00:37:59for hundreds of years

00:38:01when it comes to

00:38:02betting on horses

00:38:03and over a hundred years

00:38:05and,

00:38:06um,

00:38:06you know,

00:38:08to,

00:38:08to take the sort of,

00:38:09um,

00:38:10holy high ground,

00:38:11uh,

00:38:12for,

00:38:13for this group of people

00:38:15is just unfortunate

00:38:16for us.

00:38:16Luckily,

00:38:18it's,

00:38:18it's only a couple people

00:38:20and it doesn't take you

00:38:21too long

00:38:22to Google who they are

00:38:24and,

00:38:24by the way,

00:38:25I don't,

00:38:26I don't condemn

00:38:27their thinking

00:38:29from the standpoint

00:38:30that I think

00:38:30that they really believe that,

00:38:32but,

00:38:33um,

00:38:34you,

00:38:35you know,

00:38:35for,

00:38:35for our industry

00:38:37and what we have to work towards,

00:38:39it was just a curveball

00:38:40that was basically

00:38:42snuck into

00:38:43the final iteration

00:38:44of the big,

00:38:45beautiful bill

00:38:46after we worked so hard

00:38:47to get the hundred percent

00:38:49permanent depreciation

00:38:50and got the Senate

00:38:52to include that

00:38:53and then to see

00:38:54what they sent over

00:38:55to the House,

00:38:56only there was it

00:38:57a take it or leave it bill.

00:38:58They could not amend it.

00:38:59A lot of people,

00:39:00you know,

00:39:01were a little bit

00:39:01harsh on some

00:39:02of our champions

00:39:03in the House.

00:39:04Well,

00:39:04they shouldn't have voted

00:39:05for this

00:39:05if they knew

00:39:06that this,

00:39:07um,

00:39:08tax issue involved

00:39:10with the wagering

00:39:11and for all

00:39:12that we got

00:39:13from the permanent

00:39:15depreciation

00:39:16for the sales,

00:39:17which was huge,

00:39:18um,

00:39:19some people thought

00:39:20that the take it

00:39:21or leave it bill

00:39:22that got back

00:39:22to the House

00:39:23should have been

00:39:23voted against.

00:39:25Uh,

00:39:25you know,

00:39:26that's a,

00:39:27you know,

00:39:27cost benefit

00:39:28to,

00:39:28to weigh,

00:39:29you know,

00:39:29do I throw out

00:39:30all the positives

00:39:31we're getting

00:39:32from what we're

00:39:33seeing at the sales

00:39:34for the people

00:39:35that are affected

00:39:36that wager on

00:39:37these horses,

00:39:39from a financial

00:39:40level,

00:39:41what we're getting

00:39:41at the sales

00:39:42is much,

00:39:43much greater,

00:39:43but coming from

00:39:46a family that

00:39:46owned racetracks,

00:39:47I am fully aware

00:39:48and I've heard

00:39:49the stories

00:39:50from New York,

00:39:51et cetera,

00:39:51of the people

00:39:52that we consider

00:39:54whales that

00:39:55really account

00:39:56for a lot

00:39:57of our handle

00:39:58and,

00:39:59you know,

00:39:59when one of those

00:40:00guys,

00:40:01you know,

00:40:01as you're saying,

00:40:02so he decides

00:40:03to retire

00:40:04or sometimes

00:40:06passes away,

00:40:08I mean,

00:40:08it really,

00:40:09really does hurt

00:40:09that racetrack

00:40:10in a big way,

00:40:12so,

00:40:13you know,

00:40:14that includes

00:40:15jobs,

00:40:15that includes

00:40:16everything,

00:40:17so I feel,

00:40:19to answer your

00:40:20question,

00:40:20I feel good

00:40:21about the

00:40:22people that

00:40:23are in charge

00:40:23of this issue

00:40:25that would

00:40:26attach it to

00:40:27a must-pass

00:40:28bill that would

00:40:28get to the

00:40:29president that

00:40:30they don't have

00:40:31a problem with

00:40:32it.

00:40:32There might be

00:40:33a senator or

00:40:34two that might

00:40:34object,

00:40:35but they're not

00:40:36going to object

00:40:36to the bigger

00:40:37bill that it's

00:40:38attached to,

00:40:38so if you're

00:40:40asking why

00:40:41don't we do

00:40:41the Wager Act

00:40:42or the Fair

00:40:43Bet Act as

00:40:44a standalone

00:40:45bill that

00:40:46would be

00:40:46passed a

00:40:47committee,

00:40:48the House,

00:40:48the Senate,

00:40:49and get to

00:40:49the president,

00:40:49it will never

00:40:50get to the

00:40:50president.

00:40:51Now,

00:40:52if it's

00:40:52attached to

00:40:54some continuing

00:40:55resolution or

00:40:56something bigger

00:40:57that those

00:40:58couple senators

00:41:00that think that

00:41:01that's sort of

00:41:01like against

00:41:03their moral

00:41:04code,

00:41:07nobody's going

00:41:08to notice if

00:41:08they vote for

00:41:09it because

00:41:09it funds

00:41:12a universal

00:41:13ID for

00:41:13voters or

00:41:14something like

00:41:15that.

00:41:15So I'm not

00:41:17worried about

00:41:18it from the

00:41:19grounds of

00:41:20it's not

00:41:21going to get

00:41:22to the

00:41:22president's

00:41:22desk.

00:41:24If it's

00:41:25attached to

00:41:25a bigger

00:41:26bill,

00:41:26we just

00:41:26got to

00:41:27make sure

00:41:27that when

00:41:28something like

00:41:28that does

00:41:29go,

00:41:29that we're

00:41:30included.

00:41:31I have one

00:41:32more quick

00:41:33question about

00:41:33that.

00:41:34First of all,

00:41:35it wouldn't

00:41:35surprise me at

00:41:36all that someone

00:41:36who's morally

00:41:37opposed to

00:41:37gambling might

00:41:38feel like

00:41:38they're

00:41:38doing

00:41:39whales a

00:41:39favor by

00:41:40driving them

00:41:41out of the

00:41:41sport.

00:41:42They might.

00:41:43Yeah,

00:41:43but in

00:41:45so many

00:41:46different

00:41:48regions,

00:41:50thoroughbred

00:41:50racing is in

00:41:51direct competition

00:41:52with casinos.

00:41:54But this

00:41:55would seem

00:41:55to me to

00:41:56be an

00:41:56area of

00:41:57mutual

00:41:58benefit,

00:41:59where the

00:42:00casinos would

00:42:01be joining

00:42:01hands with

00:42:03the horse

00:42:03racing industry

00:42:04to try to

00:42:04get this

00:42:05beaten.

00:42:05Is that

00:42:06what's

00:42:06happening?

00:42:07Absolutely.

00:42:08I've gotten

00:42:09to become

00:42:09very close

00:42:10with people

00:42:10on the

00:42:10American

00:42:11Gaming

00:42:11Association.

00:42:12I mean,

00:42:12you're right.

00:42:13A lot of

00:42:13times we're

00:42:14not always

00:42:15on the

00:42:15same page

00:42:16with things

00:42:16like the

00:42:18Indian

00:42:19casinos in

00:42:20California and

00:42:21Florida.

00:42:22They're on

00:42:22their board,

00:42:23whereas a lot

00:42:24of times

00:42:25those entities

00:42:26are really

00:42:27trying to get

00:42:27rid of all

00:42:28other kinds

00:42:28of gambling

00:42:29except for

00:42:30the Indian

00:42:30casinos.

00:42:32But in

00:42:33this regard,

00:42:34we are all

00:42:34on the

00:42:35same page.

00:42:36We actually

00:42:36are on a

00:42:37weekly phone

00:42:37call with

00:42:38the American

00:42:39Gaming

00:42:39Association and

00:42:40their lobbyists

00:42:41to talk

00:42:42about who's

00:42:42going to

00:42:43see who,

00:42:44what progress

00:42:45have we made

00:42:46with this

00:42:46senator or

00:42:47that senator.

00:42:48It is really

00:42:49good to have

00:42:50that kind

00:42:50of a

00:42:50bedfellow

00:42:51when you're

00:42:51talking about.

00:42:52I'll give

00:42:53you a perfect

00:42:53example.

00:42:54One of the

00:42:55biggest

00:42:55proponents

00:42:56of bringing

00:42:59this back

00:42:59to 100%

00:43:01is Ted

00:43:02Cruz.

00:43:03Ted Cruz

00:43:04is from

00:43:04Texas.

00:43:05He is one

00:43:05of those

00:43:06guys that

00:43:06you would

00:43:07think might

00:43:07be in

00:43:07that ultra

00:43:09pious

00:43:09lean.

00:43:10Ted Cruz

00:43:12supports

00:43:12the casino

00:43:13industry by

00:43:14and large

00:43:15because the

00:43:16people that

00:43:16are in

00:43:18charge of

00:43:18those casinos

00:43:19are huge

00:43:19donors of

00:43:20his.

00:43:21So one

00:43:21of our

00:43:22biggest allies

00:43:23is Ted

00:43:23Cruz for

00:43:24that reason

00:43:25and we

00:43:25wouldn't have

00:43:25that if

00:43:26it wasn't

00:43:27for the

00:43:28people that

00:43:29make up

00:43:29the American

00:43:30Gaming

00:43:30Association.

00:43:31So it

00:43:32is really

00:43:32nice to

00:43:33have sort

00:43:33of that

00:43:33muscle

00:43:34behind you

00:43:34when it

00:43:35comes to

00:43:36those big

00:43:37casino

00:43:37operators.

00:43:40And, you

00:43:41know, it's

00:43:41not just

00:43:41them, there's

00:43:42a few

00:43:43others that

00:43:43were all

00:43:44on the

00:43:44same page.

00:43:45So, you

00:43:47know, having

00:43:49not just the

00:43:50stories of the

00:43:51people that

00:43:51are going to

00:43:51the racetrack

00:43:52that are

00:43:53thinking about

00:43:54retiring or

00:43:55quitting, it's

00:43:56also World

00:43:57Series of

00:43:57Poker, famous

00:43:59you know, people

00:43:59that people

00:44:01have come to

00:44:01know and

00:44:02follow on

00:44:03television.

00:44:05So there's

00:44:06faces with

00:44:06names and

00:44:08real stories

00:44:09out there.

00:44:10And so,

00:44:12again, I feel

00:44:13good with the

00:44:14people that are

00:44:14in charge that

00:44:15don't oppose

00:44:16us.

00:44:16We just got

00:44:17to be

00:44:17included.

00:44:18And I

00:44:19mean, it's

00:44:19going to

00:44:21take everything

00:44:22that we have

00:44:23at the

00:44:24NTRA, at

00:44:25the American

00:44:25Gaming

00:44:26Association, to

00:44:27work our

00:44:27relationships.

00:44:28This whole

00:44:29job that I

00:44:30have, guys,

00:44:31you know, you'll

00:44:32see when some

00:44:32of my friends

00:44:33start to

00:44:33retire, that's

00:44:34when I'm

00:44:35going to

00:44:35leave because

00:44:35then I'll

00:44:36lose all my

00:44:37juice.

00:44:37You know, when

00:44:38these guys that

00:44:40are chairman

00:44:40leave and I

00:44:41can't text

00:44:41them anymore

00:44:42being like,

00:44:42hey, don't

00:44:43forget about,

00:44:44you know, once

00:44:45it becomes some

00:44:46new guy that

00:44:47I've never met

00:44:47before, then

00:44:48all I become is

00:44:49one of those

00:44:50guys that's

00:44:50like begging for

00:44:5115 minutes of

00:44:52your time and

00:44:53I'm not doing

00:44:53that.

00:44:55So, but

00:44:56right now we're

00:44:57in a good

00:44:57place, so

00:44:58hopefully those

00:44:59relationships matter.

00:45:01Tom, I want to

00:45:01ask you one more

00:45:02quick question

00:45:03before we let

00:45:03you go and

00:45:04let's give you

00:45:04a chance to

00:45:05talk about the

00:45:06NHC.

00:45:07And my

00:45:08goodness, it's

00:45:09been such a

00:45:09success, but

00:45:10you were there.

00:45:11What was it

00:45:12like and what

00:45:12was the feeling

00:45:14in the room

00:45:14when it comes

00:45:15down to the

00:45:16last race and

00:45:17a fellow by

00:45:18the name of

00:45:18Dylan Donnelly

00:45:19wins by 84

00:45:22cents?

00:45:22It's a great

00:45:23story and

00:45:25wow, that

00:45:25must have

00:45:26been electric.

00:45:28It was not

00:45:29just that, it

00:45:29was very

00:45:29emotional.

00:45:30I mean, I

00:45:32don't mean to

00:45:33disclose a

00:45:34secret, but

00:45:35we were all

00:45:36rooting for

00:45:37that kid.

00:45:37I mean, like,

00:45:38you know, the

00:45:38other people that

00:45:39were at the

00:45:39final 10 table

00:45:40were all good

00:45:42people.

00:45:42There were some

00:45:42guys that were

00:45:43really funny.

00:45:44There were some

00:45:44guys that were

00:45:45like really

00:45:45serious, but

00:45:49Dylan has been

00:45:50close a lot

00:45:51in years past

00:45:53and he even

00:45:54sort of called

00:45:55his shot this

00:45:55year in an

00:45:56interview.

00:45:57I don't know

00:45:57if it was with

00:45:58you all or

00:45:59somebody else,

00:45:59but he said,

00:46:01I'm going to

00:46:01win this one

00:46:02day and I'm

00:46:02going to win

00:46:02it soon.

00:46:03And I don't

00:46:04know if he

00:46:04knew it was

00:46:05going to be

00:46:05like a week

00:46:06later, but

00:46:07he has a

00:46:08very interesting

00:46:09way of picking

00:46:09horses.

00:46:12And he is

00:46:13just the story

00:46:14that he has

00:46:15where, you

00:46:17know, he

00:46:17unfortunately went

00:46:18back to the

00:46:18back of his

00:46:19trailer on the

00:46:20way back from a

00:46:20hunting trip with

00:46:21his buddy to

00:46:22lay down and

00:46:23the axle broke

00:46:24and caused an

00:46:25accident that

00:46:26left him

00:46:26paralyzed.

00:46:27His response

00:46:28was, well, I'm

00:46:29glad it wasn't

00:46:29the week before

00:46:30when my brother

00:46:31was in the

00:46:32trailer or a

00:46:32week after when

00:46:33my grandparents

00:46:34were going to

00:46:34use it.

00:46:35I mean, that

00:46:36just shows you

00:46:36what type of

00:46:37guy he is.

00:46:39And just, you

00:46:41know, I was

00:46:41secretly rooting

00:46:42for like waiting

00:46:43for it because

00:46:44the guy that was

00:46:45ahead of him

00:46:46did have the

00:46:47second horse.

00:46:47And so it

00:46:49was going to

00:46:49be like a

00:46:49math.

00:46:50Did he have

00:46:51enough?

00:46:52I think he

00:46:52picked a 10

00:46:53to one shot.

00:46:54So, I mean,

00:46:55he really played

00:46:55it well and

00:46:58just had a

00:46:59huge, huge

00:47:00reaction by

00:47:01the entire

00:47:02room.

00:47:03I mean, you

00:47:03got 800

00:47:04people in there

00:47:04all trying to

00:47:05beat each

00:47:06other.

00:47:06And when it

00:47:07came down to

00:47:08waiting for

00:47:08like the final

00:47:09numbers to come

00:47:10up, everybody

00:47:11was standing

00:47:12around Dylan

00:47:12just like looking

00:47:14up at the

00:47:14board.

00:47:14And when it

00:47:15came out that

00:47:15he won by

00:47:1684 cents, the

00:47:17place just

00:47:17erupted like

00:47:18I've never

00:47:19seen it before.

00:47:20Usually people

00:47:21are happy for

00:47:22the guy, but

00:47:22this was genuine

00:47:23joy.

00:47:24And for him

00:47:25to get over

00:47:26$800,000, I

00:47:27mean, for

00:47:28him, I think

00:47:29that it's really

00:47:30going to mean

00:47:32something big.

00:47:33And, you

00:47:35know, I don't

00:47:36mean to, you

00:47:37know, plug too

00:47:38many people, but

00:47:39Dave Portnoy was

00:47:40there from

00:47:40Barstool and

00:47:41got on his

00:47:41show after and

00:47:42just said he's

00:47:43the greatest

00:47:43handicapper he's

00:47:44ever watched.

00:47:45I wouldn't be

00:47:46surprised if

00:47:47Dylan doesn't

00:47:48get some kind

00:47:48of gig on

00:47:49Barstool or

00:47:50something because

00:47:50it was that

00:47:52profound.

00:47:55I won't waste

00:47:56your time with

00:47:56what he does to

00:47:57wage or to

00:47:59handicap, but

00:47:59it's pretty cool.

00:48:00I'm going to

00:48:01start doing it.

00:48:02But, you know,

00:48:03it's just, it

00:48:04was a great, it

00:48:05was a great

00:48:06event.

00:48:06And we're going

00:48:07to have some

00:48:07big news with

00:48:08regard to next

00:48:09year's event

00:48:11here shortly.

00:48:13Very good.

00:48:14Well, we'll look

00:48:14forward to that.

00:48:15Well, Tom, thank

00:48:16you for your

00:48:16efforts on behalf

00:48:17of the horse

00:48:17racing industry.

00:48:18Let's sure hope

00:48:19you can get

00:48:20either the

00:48:20Fairbet Act or

00:48:21the Wager Act

00:48:22across the

00:48:22finish line because

00:48:23my goodness,

00:48:24horse racing can't

00:48:26afford this.

00:48:27And as we

00:48:27have said, it's

00:48:29extremely unfair.

00:48:30You've been a

00:48:30great guest, the

00:48:31great Gainesway

00:48:32Guest of the Week.

00:48:33We thank you so

00:48:33much for your

00:48:34time and keep

00:48:35plugging away for

00:48:35the horse racing

00:48:36industry in our

00:48:37nation's capital.

00:48:38Will do.

00:48:39Thanks, guys.

00:48:40Cheers, Tom.

00:48:41Our guest of the

00:48:42week, Tom Rooney,

00:48:43brought to you by

00:48:44Gainesway, the

00:48:44home of Seize the

00:48:45Gray, the highest

00:48:46earning son of

00:48:47Hall of Famer

00:48:47Arrowgate.

00:48:48And from his

00:48:49final crop at

00:48:49stud, Seize the

00:48:50Gray won the

00:48:51Preakness in

00:48:522024.

00:48:53But not just that,

00:48:54during his career,

00:48:55he beat the

00:48:55Kentucky Derby and

00:48:56the Belmont

00:48:57winners from that

00:48:58year, Mystic Dan

00:48:59and Dornock.

00:49:00Seize the Gray in

00:49:01all earned $2.4

00:49:02million, and his

00:49:04first foals right

00:49:06now are arriving

00:49:07across the

00:49:08bluegrass.

00:49:08Seize the Gray

00:49:09stands for a fee

00:49:10of $25,000 at

00:49:12Gainesway.

00:49:20Seize the Gray

00:49:21wins convincingly.

00:49:24Seize the Gray.

00:49:25He's going to

00:49:26seize the day in

00:49:27the Pennsylvania

00:49:28Derby.

00:49:29Seize the Gray.

00:49:31is still there.

00:49:32Seize the Gray

00:49:33wins the

00:49:34Preakness.

00:49:44It's now time for

00:49:45this week's edition

00:49:46of First Things

00:49:46First, and I

00:49:47throw it out to

00:49:48my good pal,

00:49:49Michelle Yu.

00:49:55I'm joined right

00:49:55now by Charlie,

00:49:56who's representing

00:49:57Little Red Feather

00:49:58today, right?

00:49:59You were so

00:50:00excited.

00:50:01This is Billy

00:50:01Koch's nephew,

00:50:02and are you a big

00:50:04Gold Phoenix fan?

00:50:05Yeah.

00:50:05Did you think he

00:50:06was going to win

00:50:06today?

00:50:07Yes, I knew it

00:50:07from the start.

00:50:08Even though he's

00:50:090 for 5 at the

00:50:10mile and a half,

00:50:11no doubt.

00:50:12Yeah, I came here

00:50:13from the start.

00:50:13I was not going to

00:50:14leave until he ran.

00:50:16I love it.

00:50:16And did you complete

00:50:18the Rubik's Cube in

00:50:19less time than it took

00:50:20him to finish this

00:50:20race?

00:50:21No, but, well, yes.

00:50:24I did it in less

00:50:25than a minute.

00:50:25Oh, my goodness.

00:50:26That is pretty

00:50:27amazing.

00:50:28How cool is it to

00:50:28have a horse like

00:50:29Gold Phoenix in the

00:50:30barn?

00:50:30It's cool because he's

00:50:31just so good and he

00:50:32always wins.

00:50:33Yeah, he does.

00:50:34He is a win machine.

00:50:36He's a handicapper.

00:50:37Oh, he is a

00:50:37handicapper, too.

00:50:38That's right.

00:50:39Who's your derby pick

00:50:40for the year already?

00:50:41The Puma.

00:50:42He's about to run, right?

00:50:43I think we had to work

00:50:44for him on First TV today.

00:50:45Yeah.

00:50:45Yeah?

00:50:46He's going to win.

00:50:46All right.

00:50:47Well, I appreciate you

00:50:48joining me.

00:50:48I'm going to beg Billy

00:50:49to come over just real

00:50:49quick.

00:50:50What does Gold Phoenix

00:50:51mean to the Little Red

00:50:52Feather team?

00:50:52I just, you wish they

00:50:55were all like him.

00:50:56Just game and Walker's

00:50:59probably watching and

00:51:00makes fun of me because

00:51:00I always get choked up.

00:51:02But we just had a good

00:51:03day, you know, and it's

00:51:04great for the partners to

00:51:05have a horse like this

00:51:06and, like, he's eight and

00:51:08he keeps going and it's

00:51:10just one of those things

00:51:11that you can't put a word

00:51:13to it.

00:51:14You know, he just gives it

00:51:15his all every time.

00:51:16That last race was so

00:51:17disappointing because he

00:51:17was training so well.

00:51:18And I think, you know,

00:51:20looking back now, maybe it

00:51:21was just the trip that

00:51:22wide, wide, wide all the

00:51:23way.

00:51:23But, you know, Hector

00:51:25Barrios, just kudos to him.

00:51:27What a great ride.

00:51:27And obviously with Phil and

00:51:28his team did a great job

00:51:30bringing him back and we're

00:51:31going to keep going.

00:51:32Bring Charlie to more

00:51:33races.

00:51:33Yeah.

00:51:34The first and the last.

00:51:36We call that the Charlie

00:51:37Daily Double.

00:51:38We got the Charlie bookends

00:51:39right here.

00:51:39Congratulations.

00:51:40Billy, Little Red

00:51:41Feather, Charlie and our

00:51:43good buddy, GFB.

00:51:48Thanks so much for that.

00:51:50Michelle, do want to

00:51:50remind you that racing does

00:51:51continue at Santa Anita this

00:51:53coming Friday, Saturday and

00:51:55Sunday.

00:51:55Free Fridays, free parking.

00:51:57It is all free.

00:51:58If you come and see me, I'll

00:52:00give you a free beer as well.

00:52:02Another reminder, we do have

00:52:03racing on Thursday, April the

00:52:052nd and Thursday, April the

00:52:0830th.

00:52:08Put that in your calendar.

00:52:10Well, let's talk about some

00:52:11industry news and some things

00:52:13that happen off the track.

00:52:15And Pat Valenzuela, he's been

00:52:17trying for a while, even at his

00:52:19age, he's 63 years old.

00:52:22I think Mike Smith is old.

00:52:23He's four years younger than Pat

00:52:26Valenzuela.

00:52:26P-Val hasn't ridden in almost 10

00:52:29years since 2016.

00:52:32He kept plugging away and he got

00:52:33the Arizona Racing Commission to

00:52:35give him a license.

00:52:36And he is going to resume his

00:52:39career at that age at Turf

00:52:42Paradise.

00:52:42I don't believe he has any

00:52:44entries in the next couple of

00:52:45days, but it shouldn't be long.

00:52:47And I'm sure that a lot of people

00:52:49will say two things.

00:52:51What the heck is he thinking?

00:52:52And number two, should he be

00:52:55allowed back?

00:52:56I mean, obviously, we all know

00:52:58about the many transgressions in

00:53:00his career.

00:53:01But A, if he wants to ride, I

00:53:04don't have any problem with that.

00:53:05Pat, I don't know how successful

00:53:07he'll be at this age.

00:53:08But the one thing I've all thought

00:53:09about Pat, in my opinion, is yes,

00:53:11he's had a lot of problems and he's

00:53:13done a lot of bad things, but never

00:53:15once has he ever done anything on

00:53:17the racetrack to do.

00:53:19He's never been any evidence that

00:53:21he's ridden impaired.

00:53:22He's never been accused of race

00:53:24fixing anything like that.

00:53:25All he's ever done on the racetrack is

00:53:27try 100 percent.

00:53:29And so I don't see any reason to

00:53:32blackball him.

00:53:33Again, at age 63, having not ridden

00:53:37in 10 years, he had a torn ACL.

00:53:39I believe he had to have his knee

00:53:41replacement.

00:53:42You know, he's an old man.

00:53:44And even at Turf Paradise, which is

00:53:47not exactly, you know, the Saratoga

00:53:49riding colony.

00:53:50I don't know how well he's going to

00:53:52do, but I'm fine with him coming back,

00:53:53Zoe.

00:53:54And I wish him luck.

00:53:56Godspeed.

00:53:57Pretty much all I can say.

00:53:59Good luck, Pea Valley.

00:54:00You know, he's trying to use this as a

00:54:02stepping stone to get back to

00:54:04California racing.

00:54:05He even intimated, you know, maybe

00:54:07someone could throw him a derby

00:54:08mount.

00:54:09Good luck is all I can say.

00:54:11We'll see how he does.

00:54:12I'm wishing him all the best.

00:54:13He obviously needs the money.

00:54:15I mean, he's 63 years old.

00:54:17There's no other reason why he would

00:54:19do this.

00:54:19And and and while, you know,

00:54:22we can say maybe, maybe not.

00:54:24But if we say, all right, he never

00:54:27actually is no proof he ever actually

00:54:29rode while he was, you know,

00:54:32directly under the influence.

00:54:34You know, it had to affect his

00:54:37reflexes.

00:54:37It had to affect a lot of things with

00:54:39his riding.

00:54:40To me, this is a Jockey's Guild

00:54:41question.

00:54:43There those are the guys that are

00:54:46have the most skin in the game,

00:54:48obviously, that have the most at stake

00:54:50riding against P-Val.

00:54:52If the Jockey's Guild is OK with P-Val

00:54:55making a comeback and despite all of

00:54:57his past issues, even at age 63,

00:55:00then I'm and I'm fine with it.

00:55:02But I think it should be their call.

00:55:04Perry Utes is 72.

00:55:08There you go.

00:55:09He's a P-Val's a veritable youngster

00:55:11compared to Perry Utes.

00:55:13So I thought it was interesting to hear

00:55:15Bob Baffert say that he always brings

00:55:16horses in for Derby Week, at least

00:55:18since the the ban has been lifted.

00:55:21And but he says this year he's going

00:55:23to keep horses in Kentucky and run

00:55:26through the remainder of the meet.

00:55:28And I can't say this comes as a big

00:55:30surprise because, again, this is the

00:55:33issue that we're dealing with.

00:55:35And I say this with respect and

00:55:39feeling badly for California

00:55:42racing that they cannot compete with

00:55:45the purses primarily in Kentucky and

00:55:47elsewhere.

00:55:48And I don't think you can blame

00:55:50trainers when, you know, maidens are

00:55:52running for whatever it is, one hundred

00:55:53and twenty five thousand out there.

00:55:55And Bob also did say that that he

00:55:57needs to split up some of his horses

00:55:59because he has so many in the same

00:56:01divisions that'll give him a chance

00:56:03to run

00:56:05horses, not, you know, not have four

00:56:07horses in every race,

00:56:08like sometimes happens with him.

00:56:10But, you know, again, it's I root for

00:56:13for California racing.

00:56:15I really do.

00:56:15Nobody wants to see it suffer

00:56:17and struggle.

00:56:18But this is another sign of tough

00:56:20times for California.

00:56:22Nobody's been more loyal to California

00:56:24and for a long time,

00:56:25many than Bob Baffert.

00:56:26And even now is even he now is

00:56:29dipping his toe into the water in

00:56:31Kentucky and is going to

00:56:33have his hand out with all those

00:56:35riches coming from those historical

00:56:37horse racing machines.

00:56:37I mean, the money obviously has

00:56:39something to do with it.

00:56:40I mean, he hasn't expressly said

00:56:43that, but I do believe him when he

00:56:46says that a lot of it is just that

00:56:47he's got to have he's got to run

00:56:49his horses.

00:56:50I mean, the horse population is is

00:56:53not in Southern California what they

00:56:55want it to be.

00:56:56And, you know, the races that that

00:56:59Bob needs to fill to run as often

00:57:02as he wants to run probably aren't

00:57:03filling as regularly as he would

00:57:05like.

00:57:05So he's got in his words, he's got to

00:57:07split his horses up and send some to

00:57:09California.

00:57:09It's unfortunate for California.

00:57:11And listen, it's not the first time

00:57:13he's had a string in Kentucky.

00:57:15People are acting like Bob is

00:57:16pulling up sticks and taking his

00:57:19whole barn to Kentucky.

00:57:20He's leaving plenty of horses here.

00:57:23He's got a lot of maidens.

00:57:24Bob's running maidens that are bred

00:57:26up, down and sideways to run on the

00:57:27dirt in turf races because he's

00:57:29running two in the two maiden

00:57:31races that go.

00:57:32And then he's got like six others

00:57:35waiting in the wings.

00:57:36So he's running them on the grass.

00:57:38It's just a fact of he's got so many

00:57:40horses with all the same conditions.

00:57:42He's got a barn full of maidens over

00:57:44at Los Alamitos.

00:57:46You know, you can only run so many in

00:57:48each maiden race.

00:57:49So he's going to take some to

00:57:50Kentucky, but it's not the first time

00:57:53he's done it.

00:57:53He's not pulling sticks and leaving

00:57:55Southern California.

00:57:56He's going to have a big string here.

00:57:59I don't know who's going to go out

00:58:02there.

00:58:03I'm going to assume that Jimmy's going

00:58:04to go at least for a short period of

00:58:06time.

00:58:06But Bob's a kind of a micromanager

00:58:09too.

00:58:10He does much better with horses under

00:58:12his shed row, under his charge.

00:58:15So we'll see exactly what happens.

00:58:17But yeah, he's not by any means just

00:58:19moving everything completely out of

00:58:22Southern California.

00:58:23Well, we're going to take another

00:58:24break.

00:58:25We're going to hear from the PHBA and

00:58:27the KTOB.

00:58:27And we come back, Zoe Cabman, Randy

00:58:30Moss and I will take a look at the big

00:58:32races this weekend coming up top by the

00:58:34Florida Derby.

00:58:35Stay with us.

00:58:37TDN Riders Room also brought to you by

00:58:39the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse

00:58:40Breeders Association.

00:58:42An update on five stallions who stood

00:58:45their first seasons in Pennsylvania in

00:58:472025 and whose first foals are now

00:58:50hitting the ground.

00:58:51We're talking about Barron, winner of

00:58:5312 of 35 starts, including seven

00:58:55stakes.

00:58:56He stands at Winn Oaks Farm.

00:58:57There's the Godolphin bred Enticed, who

00:59:00won the Gotham and the Kentucky Jockey

00:59:01Club.

00:59:02Enticed stands at Mountain Springs

00:59:04Farm.

00:59:05There's New York traffic.

00:59:07Remember him.

00:59:08He won a million dollars in his career.

00:59:10He also stands at Mountain Springs.

00:59:12Tyson, a sovereign award winner as

00:59:15Canada's champion older male.

00:59:17Tyson hails from the family of Belmont

00:59:19winner, Archangelo.

00:59:20He stands at Stone Jug Ranch.

00:59:22And last but not least, because his name

00:59:24starts with the letter Z, Zozos, winner of

00:59:27the grade three ACAC steaks at Churchill

00:59:29Downs.

00:59:30If you'd like more information about the

00:59:31PA Bread program, you can visit

00:59:33pabread.com or just call Brian Sanfratello

00:59:36610-444-1050.

00:59:39The Pennsylvania breeding program is the best

00:59:43program in the country.

00:59:45The stallion awards, the owner bonuses, also the

00:59:48restrictive races and the stakes races for

00:59:51Pennsylvania breeds.

00:59:52Last year, 321 Pennsylvania breeders earned

00:59:55breeders awards.

00:59:5722 Pennsylvania breeders earned over $100,000.

01:00:01We have the best program in the country.

01:00:05Take advantage of the fantastic program that we

01:00:07have.

01:00:08Learn more at pabread.com.

01:00:10With some of the fullest fields in the country and

01:00:14quality racing year-round, there's never been a

01:00:17better time to reap the rewards of breeding and

01:00:19racing in Kentucky.

01:00:22Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is

01:00:25average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida,

01:00:29and New York.

01:00:31Kentucky Breads.

01:00:32Breed them.

01:00:33Raise them.

01:00:35Race them.

01:00:36We all win.

01:00:41TD and Riders Room, also brought to you by Kentucky

01:00:44Breads, who swept this past weekend's Kentucky Derby

01:00:48and Triple Crown Prep races when Emerging Market won

01:00:51the Louisiana Derby.

01:00:52He's now number two on the road to the Derby leaderboard

01:00:54with 100 points for Klarovic Stables and his Breeder

01:00:57Stone Rigs Farm.

01:00:59Life of Joy won the Fairgrounds Oaks, as we've told you.

01:01:02She now tops the Oaks leaderboard at 122 points.

01:01:06Also with Kentucky Bread, the Jeff Ruby Steaks.

01:01:08Kentucky Bread, full effort.

01:01:10Who now tops the Derby leaderboard ahead of Emerging

01:01:14Market with 110 points.

01:01:16For his owners, St.

01:01:17Elias Stables, Vinnie Viola, and Starlight Racing, and

01:01:21his breeder, Athens Woods.

01:01:23And the Bourbonette Oaks went to Kentucky Bread,

01:01:26Laura Lylee Lee.

01:01:27Coming up this weekend, Chief Wallaby and Commandment

01:01:30headline the Florida Derby.

01:01:31Kentucky Bread, Kentucky Bread.

01:01:33And Kentucky Bread's silent tactic and renegade are among

01:01:36the favorites at Oaklawn in the Arkansas Derby.

01:01:41One of the very best preps of the season, as it always is, is the Florida Derby,

01:01:46the Curlin Florida Derby.

01:01:47And I think they made the right morning line favorite in here.

01:01:51Chief Wallaby at 2-1, even though he got beat by Commandment last time out.

01:01:56And I'm going to be one of many to jump on his bandwagon.

01:01:59The bandwagon has a lot to do with the fact that Bill Mott is his trainer,

01:02:02been bringing it along slowly.

01:02:04He ran great in the Fountain of Youth and should improve enough to run a better race.

01:02:09Does that mean he's going to be good enough to beat Commandment?

01:02:12And Nearly, who is 3-1, and also the Puma is another major contender in the race.

01:02:17But I think logically he's the one to beat.

01:02:20And it's also interesting that the future wager bettors agree with that as well,

01:02:26because in the last future wager, I believe he was tied for the top spot with Paladin.

01:02:32So the bettors have already made their voices heard that Chief Wallaby is a horse to be reckoned with.

01:02:40I don't know if the Florida Derby winner is going to be the Kentucky Derby favorite

01:02:45because we still have to see what happens in the Arkansas Derby,

01:02:47which we'll talk about in a minute.

01:02:48And, of course, the Bluegrass and San Diego Derby will be very important as well.

01:02:52But whoever wins this race is certainly going to be a main contender.

01:02:57Mr. Moss in the Kentucky Derby.

01:03:01Short stretch.

01:03:03Gulfstream Park.

01:03:04Nearly.

01:03:06Okay.

01:03:07Look, I loved his race in the Holy Bull.

01:03:1045 and change.

01:03:12Almost 46.

01:03:1345.96 for the half mile.

01:03:15Fighting with Cannoneer for the lead.

01:03:17And then he basically re-breaks and wins by five and three quarters.

01:03:20I was pulling away.

01:03:22I'll give nearly an edge over Chief Wallaby in what should be a fantastic race.

01:03:27I'm going to go straight exact to Chief Wallaby over nearly.

01:03:33We will find out more about the Kentucky Oaks field when they were on the Gulfstream Park Oaks

01:03:37on the Florida Derby undercard.

01:03:39The favorite will be She Be Smooth, trained by Todd Pletcher, Flovely, and Pratt,

01:03:45who seems like he's riding about eight Oaks contenders and nine Derby contenders at this point.

01:03:51His agent and the trainers are going to have a lot of figuring out to do between now and Kentucky

01:03:56Oaks

01:03:56and Kentucky Derby Day.

01:03:58But he's aboard She Be Smooth.

01:04:00I am actually going to try to beat her with Prom Queen, trained by Brad Cox.

01:04:05I know this horse has done nothing but break her maiden, but she was very impressive last time out,

01:04:11ran off the screen.

01:04:12And I also like the fact that she's also won around two turns where She Be Smooth has not.

01:04:17But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if She Be Smooth wins this,

01:04:21not a horse that I'm going to throw out.

01:04:23But I'll take a little flyer on Prom Queen in there.

01:04:27I mean, how could I bet against Nasty Z for Sammy Joseph in there?

01:04:34I mean, I'm going to take a little bit of a swing there.

01:04:37Off a $35,000 maiden claimer?

01:04:40How could they put Nasty Z in for a tag first time out?

01:04:43That's just terrible.

01:04:44I'm just kidding.

01:04:45I like She Be Smooth in here with Pratt, but I'm going to be rooting for Nasty Z.

01:04:50Why wouldn't I?

01:04:51I'll side with Bill, Prom Queen over She Be Smooth.

01:04:54I had a little concern, pedigree-wise, about distance two turns for She Be Smooth,

01:04:59even though she looked amazing winning around a one-turn mile.

01:05:03But she did get a rail trip that day.

01:05:05I don't know if she's going to be that fortunate again.

01:05:08I'll take Prime Point.

01:05:10The Arkansas Derby with a hefty purse of $1.5 million on Saturday at Oakland Park.

01:05:16I'll go with the very obvious, I think, obvious renegade in here for Todd Pletcher.

01:05:21Irod Ortiz, by the way, took off commandment in the Florida Derby to ride for Todd here.

01:05:26I think that is important.

01:05:28Coming off a Sam Davis win, the Puma came out of the Sam Davis, came back to win the Tampa

01:05:33Bay Derby.

01:05:34I don't really see, you know, this is not a very, you know, thinking outside the box pick.

01:05:44It just looks like a logical horse.

01:05:46But I want to get, Zoe, your opinion on who you like.

01:05:49This is a very good betting race because I don't find a standout.

01:05:53I have a sneaky feeling that blackout time might be sitting on a big one.

01:05:57Don't ask me why.

01:05:58It's just something Kenny McPeak can do, throw one, you know, straight out of the cannon at you.

01:06:03So I'm wondering how good he is going to run.

01:06:07I understand with the favoritism in there on Renegade.

01:06:10But it's not a one-horse race as far as I'm concerned.

01:06:14All right.

01:06:15When Irad took off commandment to ride Renegade, he made my decision for me there.

01:06:21I think Renegade's the horse to beat.

01:06:23And Silent Tactic would be, to me, about the only horse in there that I could confidently think would be

01:06:29able to run him down.

01:06:30On Friday at Ocon, they'll run the Fantasy Stakes.

01:06:33One million dollars for Phillies pointing for the Kentucky Oaks.

01:06:36But Explorer from the Bob Baffert barn will be the big favorite of Flavia and Prada board.

01:06:41But I'm once again going to try to get the minor upset with Sticker Shock from Brad Cox.

01:06:48Obviously, I'm on the Brad Cox bandwagon.

01:06:52Looked pretty good and got a nice 87 buyer last time out, winning the allowance race at Ocon.

01:06:57And really, you know, sometimes you look at the figures and is Explorer really that much faster than everybody else?

01:07:04Really, no, she's not.

01:07:05She's not necessarily faster than Counting Stars.

01:07:08She's not necessarily faster than Sticker Shock.

01:07:10So maybe she'll be a little bit overbet.

01:07:13Again, I have all the respect in the world for Explorer and, of course, the team of Baffert and Flavia

01:07:17and Prada.

01:07:18Not going to be at least a bit surprised if she wins.

01:07:20But I think she might be an okay bet against.

01:07:22And I'll go with Sticker Shock.

01:07:25Explorer knows how to win.

01:07:26Go ahead, Randy.

01:07:27Yeah.

01:07:27No, no.

01:07:28Go ahead.

01:07:28I want to hear you.

01:07:29I've just said that she knows how to win races.

01:07:31She's never been out of the top two.

01:07:32She gets well drawn on the outside with Pratt.

01:07:36There's a guy we need to have on one time.

01:07:39His agent, Brad Pegram, just to see how he juggles it.

01:07:42Great guy.

01:07:43He's out here in Southern California just a couple of days ago.

01:07:46He bebops all over the place.

01:07:47He'd be a great guy to have on.

01:07:50Well, Explorer is a deserving favorite.

01:07:52But if Counting Stars is any kind of a decent price as a second choice, she is the real deal.

01:08:01Look, I mean, when she won a race at Six Furlong Stakes at Oakland, I think it was called the

01:08:05Astral Spa.

01:08:06She looked really good.

01:08:07And then she came back.

01:08:08She won a race called the Year's End.

01:08:09And I was like, this horse is a legitimate Kentucky Oaks contender.

01:08:14And then they ran her back in the Martha Washington.

01:08:17And she got beat literally by a pole with no excuse.

01:08:23Mark Cassidy, trainer, couldn't find anything wrong.

01:08:25Had no idea why she ran that terribly.

01:08:28All he knew is that she came back and trained really well.

01:08:31So he didn't know what to think when he put her into the honeybee.

01:08:35And she was right back to where she was before.

01:08:37I would feel a lot better about Counting Stars if I knew what happened to her two races back.

01:08:43But if she runs her last race back again, she was gaining on Explorer.

01:08:47It was a heck of a race for Counting Stars.

01:08:49And she's a legitimate Kentucky Oaks contender off her best ever.

01:08:54So once again, a huge weekend of preps for both the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Oaks.

01:09:00And we'll be talking about all that again on our show next week.

01:09:03The TDN Writer's Room is also brought to you by First TV, the Puma.

01:09:10Who won the Tampa Bay Derby in his last start on March the 7th is this week's First TV work

01:09:15of the week.

01:09:16Our cameras caught the Puma working five furlongs at Gulfstream Park on Saturday in 101 and 4

01:09:22in preparation for Saturday's Florida Derby, where he'll take on Chief Wallaby along with Commandment and several others.

01:09:30We'll be right back after this message from First TV.

01:09:36Be a smarter bettor with First TV, the best horses.

01:09:42With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.

01:09:49All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.

01:09:54Everything you need to be informed.

01:09:57Be smart.

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01:10:22And compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.

01:10:27West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.

01:10:31Visit westpointtv.com.

01:10:35TD and Writer's Room also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.

01:10:39This Friday at Oaklawn, West Point will be cheering on Counting Stars in the $1 million fantasy stakes.

01:10:44Looking to punch her ticket to the Churchill Downs for the Kentucky Oaks.

01:10:47She's made herself at home at Oaklawn.

01:10:49She won two stakes races and a very good second behind Explora in the grade three Honeybee, which we mentioned

01:10:56earlier.

01:10:56Counting Stars is a star alumni of the OBS spring sale of two-year-olds in training, where she was

01:11:01bought last spring for $150,000.

01:11:05West Point will have another representative from that sale back in action Saturday when Carson's Run returns in the Appleton

01:11:11stakes at Gulfstream.

01:11:13David Ingordo secured Carson's Run for $170,000 for West Point at OBS April in 2023.

01:11:20Carson's Run scored grade one wins as a two-year-old and as a three-year-old.

01:11:25And now he's back as a five-year-old for trainer Miguel Clement.

01:11:29Well, that's a wrap.

01:11:30I want to thank our Gainesway guests of the week.

01:11:33Tom Rooney shed a lot of light, I thought, on what's going on in Washington with this very unfair tax

01:11:38on gamblers.

01:11:39And it's good to have Mr. Rooney in the corner of horseplayers and gamblers of all species.

01:11:45I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin.

01:11:49I also want to thank the people that work behind the scenes and do such a fabulous job making this

01:11:53end product look as good as it does.

01:11:56And that's the team of Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.

01:12:00We'll be back next week.

01:12:01Plenty to talk about because we got some huge races coming up next week as well, including the Bluegrass, the

01:12:08Santa Anita Derby, and the Wood Memorial.

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