- 5/20/2025
There are more than three weeks to go before the running of the GI Kentucky Derby, but it wasn’t too early for the TDN Writers’ Room Podcast team to dive into last weekend’s preps and look ahead to the first Saturday in May. The Gainesway Guest of the Week was TDN European and International editor Emma Barry, who talked about how Donald Trump’s proposed tariffs might affect European and U.S. racing.
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00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:31My name is Bill Finley, I'm a correspondent for the TDN, and I also co-host along with
00:36Dave Johnson, the Down the Stretch radio show on Sirius XM.
00:39How y'all doing?
00:40I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Byers Speed Figure Associates.
00:46T.D.
00:47Thornton speaking to you from a little bit north of Boston today.
00:50I'm a stablemate of Bill's at Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:55Very good.
00:56Guys, a lot to talk about.
00:58This was the last weekend on the road to the Kentucky Derby.
01:01Actually, I shouldn't say weekend because, of course, the bluegrass spilled over to Tuesday
01:05because of the bad weather.
01:06So, why don't we start with the Santa Anita Derby?
01:09And we have a very firm now, I think, Kentucky Derby favorite in journalism.
01:15Not only did he win, he beat a good field, he got a good buyer number of 102, he overcame
01:20some traffic to win the race.
01:23He did decline from a 108 buyer to a 102, but I don't think, Randy, that's anything
01:27to worry about.
01:29Am I right about that?
01:30Is he the definitive solid favorite for the Kentucky Derby?
01:34One of the more solid favorites that we've seen in quite some time.
01:38I mean, you go back to Justify and as good as he looked in California, I don't think
01:47he was necessarily regarded as as solid a favorite maybe as journalism is because of
01:53his lack of experience at the time when he came to the Kentucky Derby.
01:57Maybe American Pharaoh in 2015, but I think you're looking at probably 2 to 1 on journalism
02:04and nowadays in a 20-horse field in the Kentucky Derby, a 2 to 1 favorite I think qualifies
02:08as being very solid.
02:11He's impressive both from how fast he's won his races and the how he did it metric.
02:18He earned a 108 buyer speed figure going a mile on a 16th, a 102 going nine furlongs.
02:24Proven stalker, doesn't mind being pinned down inside on the rail and then tipping out
02:29to make his move.
02:30Almost didn't get a chance to do that in last Saturday's Santa Anita Derby.
02:34Umberto Rispoli had him down on the fence about three-eighths out, had the shoulder
02:39aside barns to get out for running room.
02:41It really was for a big athletic muscular horse like journalism, that was a complete
02:47momentum stop.
02:48He had to get going again and he was able to run down Citizen Bull, the two-year-old
02:54champ had already been put away by the up and coming Baeza, but journalism took dead
02:59aim on Baeza in the lane, blew past him, galloped out extremely well, came back spattered with
03:05dirt kickbacks.
03:06So, you know, he was in there taking the brunt of the heavy going when he was pinned down
03:11inside.
03:12I guess really the only question left is, again, I'm not going to quibble with him being
03:16the favorite.
03:17He deserves to be the favorite.
03:18We can, once we see the post draw, we can argue over the next three weeks or so whether
03:22he's a bettable favorite.
03:25I guess my only questions are, did that effort take a lot out of him?
03:30And he really has been racing in fields that are on the lighter side.
03:34He's raced in, I believe, three five-horse fields in his career, a little different than
03:38a 20-horse field in the Derby, but you never know until they get out there and actually
03:41do it.
03:42And at least we saw him overcome the traffic Saturday, like you pointed out.
03:46You mentioned that Umberto had to shoulder his way out.
03:48You watched the head-on replays.
03:50There were some elbows being exchanged between Juan Hernandez on Barnes and Reese Bully on
03:56journalism.
03:57One of the things, Bill, that I think is really, is going to contribute to journalism being
04:03such a solid Kentucky Derby favorite, aside from the obvious, and we'll talk some more
04:07about this later.
04:11It is looking increasingly, after the bluegrass stakes, like we're going to have a pace meltdown
04:17scenario in the Kentucky Derby.
04:20We're going to have a very fast pace in the Derby.
04:24And that's going to help a horse like journalism.
04:26He can be further back.
04:27He can be a little bit closer.
04:28He's got a little bit of tactical speed.
04:30He's got some versatility there, which I think is going to stand him in pretty good stead,
04:34assuming, to TD's point, that a 20-horse field doesn't mentally impact him in some way.
04:43Anybody have any theories on what happened to the Baffert horses?
04:47My goodness, what price did you add on the dead last and next to last exact of Citizen
04:53Bull and Barnes?
04:55They were both looking so good, especially Citizen Bull, coming into the race.
04:59Like I said, in a five-horse field, they were fourth and fifth.
05:04I haven't read what Baffert's plans are for them going forward, but rare setback for Baffert
05:10in a Kentucky Derby prep race, especially one run at Santa Anita.
05:14But very predictable.
05:15Barnes, by the way, is off the Derby trail.
05:18Citizen Bull, the intent is to run him in the Kentucky Derby.
05:22Bob feels like he was a little bit light on his training for Citizen Bull going into the
05:27Santa Anita Derby.
05:28But Barnes was not training well going into the Santa Anita Derby.
05:34They had blinkers on, blinkers off.
05:37They were trying to find something there.
05:39They weigh the horses before the Santa Anita Derby.
05:42He lost a little bit more than 20 pounds from his previous race to the Santa Anita Derby,
05:47and growing three-year-olds are supposed to be going in the opposite direction.
05:51So right there is enough to tell you that they were... and he was going to be taken
05:57off the pace in the Santa Anita Derby, as opposed to his golden trip the time before
06:03when he made a nice, easy, comfortable early lead in the San Felipe.
06:06As far as Citizen Bull, we talked at length about how he had gotten away with beautiful,
06:13uncontested, orchestrated front-running trips in his three previous races.
06:19Yes, he looked good, but easy leads.
06:23Now the question was, was he going to get an easy lead in the Santa Anita Derby?
06:27I talked to John Sheriffs the day before the race, and we talked primarily, when the topic
06:35was Westwood, about the fact that Westwood was entered to make the race a five-horse
06:41field and to give Baeza potentially more points than he would have been able to get if it
06:48were a four-horse field.
06:50That's why they ran the maiden to begin with.
06:52I hung up the phone, and I looked at the past performances of Westwood, and it says speed.
06:58You do pace figures, he's got more speed than Citizen Bull's been showing.
07:03So I got on the phone, I called Sheriffs back again, and I said, I forgot to ask you a very
07:06important question.
07:08If you're running Westwood to help Baeza get points, would you not use Westwood's speed
07:16to help Baeza in terms of hooking Citizen Bull on the front end?
07:20He just kind of laughed, and he said, that's exactly what the battle plan is.
07:25Because that's probably better for Westwood anyway, and it also helps Baeza.
07:32I was kind of surprised that Bob Baffert opted for only one prep race prior to the Santa
07:39Anita Derby as a three-year-old for the two-year-old champ, Citizen Bull.
07:45Probably because I remember reporting his back as early as, I think it was January,
07:49that Baffert had said, Citizen Bull is a big heavy horse who thrives on racing.
07:54Well, he only gave him one race, and that was the February 1st Robert B. Lewis stakes.
08:01He wired the field that day, and then he didn't race him in March in the San Felipe.
08:07Baffert has won the Santa Anita Derby on nine previous occasions.
08:11I went back through the charts, and on none of those nine occasions did he win it with
08:16a horse who didn't race in the month of March.
08:20In fact, over the past 30 years since Baffert first won the Santa Anita Derby with Cavanier,
08:25he's had a horse in the race, and sometimes in some years, multiple horses in the Santa
08:29Anita Derby pretty much every year for three decades.
08:34On only six previous occasions did he race a horse who had raced as far back, his last
08:39race as February, and in a couple of cases farther back than that.
08:43He didn't do that with the two-year-old champ, and after the race, I know Daily Racing Forum
08:47had quoted Bob as saying, geez, I wish I had another race in him.
08:51He had his opportunity, didn't do it.
08:54I wouldn't totally pull the plug on Citizen Bull.
08:57I think that not only did Westwood go out and play the role of a rabbit, but Martin
09:03Garcia, the way he reacted to that was Citizen Bull broke running, and then he conceded the
09:09lead to the 40-to-1 long shot, but then about six furlongs out, instead of allowing Citizen
09:15Bull to settle, he said, no, no, no, I want to be outside, and I want to go after the
09:18pace again.
09:19So I don't think Citizen Bull ever had a chance to get into a proper rhythm.
09:23I think he was a quote-unquote short horse for the race, and although he was able to
09:28put away Westwood by the far turn, and he was able to resist the initial bit of Baeza,
09:34he had nothing left at the quarter pole, and Martin Garcia didn't beat up on him when it
09:38was evident he wasn't going to get a higher placing.
09:40So not a great effort, not the good mojo going to Louisville, but I wouldn't give up on Citizen
09:47Bull just yet based off of that one race.
09:49So we should talk.
09:50This is my Citizen Bull plug right here, by the way.
09:52I pulled it as soon as he crossed the finish line.
09:57So now we've talked a lot about Baeza, who was second, and first of all, the horse with
10:02the pedigree makes him very sexy, the half-brother to Mage and Dornach.
10:07He ran his eyeballs out.
10:09He ran a great race.
10:10He belongs in the Kentucky Derby.
10:13Nobody can tell you that he's not one of the 20 best horses in the United States right
10:17now, or including the Japanese or UAE horses that want to come.
10:22I imagine even he would be about 20 to one or so in the Kentucky Derby, instead of these
10:27guys that are 50 to one.
10:28So Churchill changed the point system this year to give fewer points in races with five
10:36horses or less, five horses or fewer.
10:39So this really affected Baeza.
10:42He only got 37.5 points for running second in the Santa Anita Derby, where he would have
10:47gotten 50 if they didn't make this rule change.
10:51The 50 will get him in.
10:52Now he's 24th on the list as we speak.
10:56There's usually enough defections, and maybe Barnes is one of them right now.
10:59Maybe that moves him up to 23rd.
11:01He'll probably get in, but I don't like the way Churchill changed the system.
11:06I think it's kind of punitive towards California racing.
11:09I think that what it was aimed at, because they have so many small fields, maybe just
11:15maybe one last knock on Bob Baffert.
11:18Oh, you're going to run your horses in all these five horse fields.
11:21Well, we're going to make you pay for it.
11:24I have a different take on that.
11:27I don't think it was intended to be punitive, my opinion, against Southern California or
11:32against Bob Baffert.
11:33I think on the surface, it makes sense.
11:37If you have a five horse field, it's obviously much easier to finish fourth or fifth than
11:44it is if you're in a 12 horse field, right?
11:48Equal points or equal stature for both, I think is a little bit unfair to the horses
11:54running in big fields.
11:56Now, could they do it a little differently?
11:58I agree with you there.
12:00As a matter of fact, I think that what they should do is not reduce the total number of
12:04points available.
12:07I think they should just reduce the number of placings that get points.
12:12For example, in the Santa Anita Derby, you could still have 100 to the winner, 50 to
12:16second, but maybe you only pay back the top three or maybe even the top two in a short
12:22field like that.
12:23But leave the top line horses intact and comparable to the other major 100 point prep races.
12:32That's the way I view it.
12:33By the way, I think Baez is the second best horse in the Kentucky Derby if he runs.
12:37I think he's going to be more like 6 to 1 or 7 to 1 than as high as 20 to 1, my opinion.
12:44Yeah, I think Randy's onto a valid point there.
12:47Again, just backing up, let's consider that no qualification system is perfect, whether
12:53it's for horse racing to get into the Kentucky Derby, whether it's for NCAA basketball.
12:59You're always going to see somebody who's kind of left out of the bubble and the system
13:04doesn't appear perfect and it's not perfect.
13:07I think Randy's point has some validity.
13:09I've heard that mentioned before, pay out to first and second.
13:12I guess in the back of my mind at first blush, I would wonder if that would erode the fields
13:17even further.
13:19Maybe do you get in a situation in a subsequent year where somebody says, well, I'm not even
13:23going to get points for third.
13:24Why do I run in a small horse race?
13:27Maybe you flip that on its head and the opposite is keeping the point structure is the same
13:33for everybody except incentivize horses that win in big fields.
13:38Maybe give them extra points if you win a 12-horse field or finish in the top points
13:42earning places in a larger field.
13:44I don't have a good answer, just throwing something out there.
13:47I see both your points.
13:48I especially see Randy's point, but Randy, I mean, think about this.
13:52You just said you think if he's in the race, he's the second best horse.
13:56A system that doesn't allow the second best horse in your opinion to be in the derby,
14:03it's not right.
14:04They screwed up.
14:05I agree.
14:06It shouldn't have happened that way.
14:10I don't know what the perfect answer is either.
14:12I think both of you have good suggestions, but the horse belongs in the derby.
14:16Let's hope that he makes it in.
14:17Like I said, I think he probably will.
14:19I think Churchill would agree with that.
14:20I think Churchill wants a situation where potentially the second best horse in the race
14:24is in the race.
14:26I think they'll probably look at maybe some tweaks.
14:28The only other alternative would be partially to employ the Breeders' Cup model.
14:37I know Churchill Downs Incorporated has never really been too keen on this, but you've already
14:41got a couple of horses from the Mideast European Road to the Derby spots.
14:46You've got one spot for the Japan Road to the Kentucky Derby.
14:51They could potentially hold out two spots, let's say, for a panel to a blue ribbon panel
15:01to pick out a couple of horses that don't make it into what would be left.
15:06Top 15 in points and add a couple more.
15:11In a case like that, maybe they could rectify a situation in which a horse like Baez is
15:15excluded.
15:17I think for this year, though, one thing that you're not going to see is my understanding
15:21is that John Sheriffs, even though they will draw 20 for the Derby and they will maintain
15:26a field of four also eligibles, and we saw a couple of years ago that's how Rich Strike
15:31drew into the race and won the 22 Derby as a big long shot.
15:34I think John is already on record, though, as saying he doesn't want to ship the horse
15:38to Louisville and wait it out, see if he gets on the also eligible list, and then wait it
15:43out to see if he draws in.
15:44If he doesn't draw into the main body of 20, I think you're going to see Baez maybe in
15:48Baltimore.
15:49And to draw in in postposition number 20 if he draws in, which is not a good scenario
15:54either.
15:55Obviously not.
15:56Well, we want to remind you that the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
16:01It was a big weekend of winning for Keeneland sales grads who kicked off the celebration
16:05with a trifecta in the grade one or group one Dubai Golden Shaheen.
16:09Dark Saffron, Nakatomi, and Tuz cost a combined $50,000.
16:14That's remarkable.
16:15Took home over $1.7 million in this race alone.
16:19Then Tenma went on to win the San Anita Oaks and Rodriguez won the Wood Memorial.
16:24They'll both be heading to Louisville for Oaks and Derby weekend.
16:28Still catching.
16:29Leslie's Rose.
16:30Sierra.
16:31Leon.
16:32Mike, $5 million.
16:35Carl Spackler.
16:36A mercy.
16:37She feels pretty.
16:38Hut.
16:58Now we go to our fastest horse of the week, presented by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm,
17:04including Cogburn, who was billed as the fastest horse in the world.
17:08And for good reason.
17:09In the Longines World Horse Racing Rankings, Cogburn was rated at 120 pounds, making him
17:14number one among sprinters.
17:15And remember that 2024 Jaipur Stakes at Saratoga, in which Cogburn ran the fastest five and
17:21a half furlongs ever, 59.80, which was good.
17:26Also for a 114 buyer speed figure, the fastest buyer of that year, Cogburn has a full book
17:33in 2025 at Windstar and Whitten Stud in Australia just set Cogburn's Southern Hemisphere fee
17:39at $27,500 Australia.
17:43Now this week we have two fastest horses of the week, Journalism, who we just said had
17:47a 102 buyer, matching that at San Anita from a Friday allowance race, a horse named Wound
17:53Up.
17:54He completed a remarkable win streak with a seven and a half length win in that allowance
17:58sprint.
17:59Wound Up was claimed last December at Pleasanton for $10,000 by trainer Librato Borossio.
18:05He won that day with a 78 buyer.
18:07Since then, his buyers have been 92, then 97, then 99.
18:12And last Friday, 102, he won all those races with an average win margin of six lengths.
18:18He's now on five straight, eight of his last 11, and Wound Up and Journalism.
18:23Our co-fastest horses of the week.
18:31Welcome in now the Gainesway guests of the week.
18:33It is Emma Berry, who's the European and international editor for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
18:38Emma, usually we have you on to talk about nice things.
18:41Who's going to run in the arc to triumph?
18:42What's coming up in the Epson Derby?
18:44First of all, how are you?
18:46And secondly, you know where we're going with this.
18:49We're going to talk about tariffs.
18:53Sure. Well, first of all, thanks for asking.
18:54I'm very well.
18:55Looking forward to the classic trials getting underway here in Europe.
18:59Well, they've actually already underway in Europe, but getting underway in Britain this weekend.
19:04But yes, tariffs are rather looming over all the news at the moment here.
19:09And yeah, we're obviously waiting to see what sort of retaliation measures, if any,
19:16come into play from the UK and the European Union after the announcement last week from the White House.
19:23So, I mean, right now, this stuff is very complicated and there's more questions than there are answers.
19:29But the gist of it is and the reason why we want to have you on as a European expert is that my understanding,
19:37and maybe it could change tomorrow or the day after,
19:39but if an American goes over to a European sale, buys a horse and brings it back to race in the United States,
19:47they will be subject to a tariff.
19:49I believe right now it's 20 percent for EU countries and 10 percent for Great Britain.
19:55What is the mood over there?
19:56How is this going to affect the European sales?
20:00Yeah, that's what we're all asking.
20:02And as you say, no one knows any of the answers yet.
20:07And it's going to very much depend in the next few weeks to see the level of retaliation.
20:15I know that, you know, Britain in particular, which is where obviously I'm living,
20:20Sir Keir Starmer, our prime minister, is very cautious in this regard.
20:24And I know his government is hoping to strike a trade deal with America.
20:28But I'm sure there are umpteen countries trying to do that.
20:31So I don't think we'll see any sort of knee-jerk.
20:33We haven't already seen any sort of knee-jerk reaction here.
20:37And certainly, you know, business leaders in Britain are urging the prime minister
20:43not to retaliate with tariffs of our own.
20:45So it's hard to see how it's going to play out the other way.
20:51But certainly, as you say, at the moment, for Americans buying in Europe,
20:54which happens an awful lot, both at public auction and in private sales,
20:59those tariffs will apparently be applied to horses by their own suffix.
21:05So even if you're buying in Britain, you could be buying a tassels,
21:09but buying an Irish bred horse or a French bred horse.
21:11And as we understand it at the moment, certainly as the shipping companies understand it,
21:17you would be subject to the tariffs imposed by suffix, if that makes sense.
21:22So 20% on Irish and French and German horses, 10% on British bred horses.
21:27That's going to have surely an impact on the level of spending.
21:32There are obviously an awful lot of American owners and breeders who leave horses in Europe
21:37permanently, either to race or to be bred from.
21:41So that won't affect them.
21:42But obviously, a lot of, you know, we certainly see a Book One of the Tassels October Yearling Sale
21:47and Book Two, you know, the likes of Mike Ryan come over and bring a lot of horses back
21:51from the turf program in America to race with Chad Brown, et cetera.
21:56So one would have to think at this stage, if getting into the yearling sales later in the autumn
22:04or in the fall, rather, that American spending would be reduced if we're in this situation then,
22:09which it seems that we're going to be.
22:11And, you know, more immediately, the breeze up sales have just started today, actually, in France.
22:17Next week's a big sale, the Tassels Craven breeze up sale.
22:21Not so much of an American participation usually at that, but a little bit more at Arcana in May.
22:27So I think we're going to see quite soon how we're going to be affected.
22:31And one can only think at the moment that's going to be a reduction in spending by American owners.
22:38And what are you hearing? What are the sales companies saying?
22:42For example, like what will be the first test where we see this in effect?
22:47Yeah, at the moment, they're all pretty much saying we're going to just have to wait and see.
22:53And that's really all they can do. I mean, obviously, there must be a level of concern in-house.
22:58And I'm sure they'll be thinking about ways which they can make this easier for American buyers still to come.
23:05I'm sure we're not going to suddenly see no Americans turning up in Europe, but things will shift.
23:13But equally, if we lose some American buyers in this part of the world,
23:17it may be that it opens up opportunities for buyers from other parts of the world to think,
23:21well, perhaps I won't be spending so much.
23:24You know, if you're a Japanese owner, maybe you wouldn't be spending so much at Keeneland with the tariffs imposed on Japan.
23:29Perhaps you might increase the spending in Europe.
23:33I mean, you're buying different types of horses at different places, of course.
23:36So lots of factors will have to be taken into consideration.
23:40But I think it'll be more a kind of a shift of buyers rather than suddenly a huge drop off.
23:47So I'll be honest with you. I've tried to keep up with this stuff and looked at it and tried it.
23:52I don't I can't figure out what the hell's going on here. I don't and I think I'm not alone.
23:57I mean, I don't think anybody even knows what the final verdict on all this stuff is going to be.
24:01So let me just ask you a couple of just really basic questions.
24:04In your opinion, if the tariffs are implemented as it appears they currently might be, is this a minor inconvenience?
24:17Is it a major inconvenience? Is it a catastrophic inconvenience?
24:24I'd go somewhere between a major and minor, not catastrophic.
24:28I think, you know, we've all seen the industry come through Covid continue to, you know,
24:35we were we had massive lockdowns and, you know, complete cessation of racing for six or so weeks in Europe during Covid.
24:43And we managed to get everything back on track, get the breed up sales back on track.
24:47Then this is a different situation. But I think people are very adaptive, quick to react and adapt to the situation.
24:55And I think we'll probably see, as I've said, a difference in in buying patterns.
25:01But, you know, we also had in this part of the world, it's slightly different.
25:04But in the last few years, we've had to adapt to Brexit, which changed the movement of the previous free movement of horses
25:11under the tripartite agreement between Britain, Ireland and France that stopped all that.
25:17And we've suddenly had to pay extra to vets and customs to move horses in and out of the EU to Britain.
25:26That was that seemed to be not catastrophic, but it seemed to be a major drama at the time.
25:31It's caused a lot of inconvenience and extra paperwork and extra expense for people.
25:35But people have got their heads around it now. And that's what will happen as this situation evolves.
25:42And we understand what we're looking at.
25:44Certainly, it's going to make things very uncertain for this year throughout the sales and racing season, I think.
25:51And correct me if I'm wrong, it's not just a European problem.
25:54It's potentially an American problem as well.
25:56You mentioned Chad Brown. I mean, right now in America, we are so accustomed to seeing almost all of our best turf horses
26:06being horses that were either purchased in Europe or began their racing careers in Europe.
26:12And then there's a whole industry of bloodstock agents looking in Europe for bargains to bring to America to race.
26:20I mean, that could be hugely impacted as well, correct?
26:24I would imagine so, yes. And my own gut feeling at the moment, looking at it in the same way as you,
26:30not really knowing exactly how it's going to play out or what the longer term implications are.
26:35But my gut feeling is that ultimately, I think this will hurt the American thoroughbred industry more than it hurts its countries
26:43that it does regular business with, obviously most of Europe, Japan, other areas.
26:49I worry more for what will go on internally in America than for us outside.
26:57And my understanding, again, like Randy, I mean, this stuff makes my head spin and it's very hard to understand.
27:03So thank you for coming on and explaining.
27:05And this is sort of piggybacking off what Randy said.
27:09And I know you said the EU countries and Great Britain have not yet announced, I believe, any retaliatory...
27:18Is that the right word? Retaliatory tariffs against the U.S.?
27:24But suppose they do. What would that mean if Aiden O'Brien comes over and wins two Breeders' Cup races?
27:31Does he have to pay a tariff for coming over and winning in America, pay a tariff to Ireland?
27:38I don't know what it will mean as regards prize money earnings.
27:42I wouldn't have thought so. But again, I'm just guessing now.
27:46But as regards bringing horses into the country to race, I'm sure that very much as we do now for either taking horses into the EU from Britain,
27:57either brewed mares or race horses, you go in under a temporary import certificate and you pay a bond and that's returned.
28:08Certainly, Cornwall, for example, were very quick to react to the Brexit situation.
28:12And they have a system which they call a carne, which if you're taking a mare from here to visit a Cornwall stallion, they look after all the vat for you.
28:21So the mares in Ireland for several months being covered and scanned and foaled and then comes back and that's refunded.
28:29And they helped breeders by making that easier for them to do.
28:34I'm sure big organisations like Keeneland or Breeders' Cup, what have you, they'll have that situation all in hand by the time overseas horses will be coming into race.
28:45I know that you have looked at that in TDN for the Kentucky Derby, for example.
28:49But I would imagine we'll have that same situation ongoing.
28:53It's more for the sort of longer term or permanent buying a horse to come and race in America and stay there type of situation, which you'll have to pay a tariff, I would think.
29:03So, for example, at the Arcana sale in a few weeks time, a quarter of the catalogue are American breads that have been pinhooked to the September yearling sales.
29:11And, you know, they won't be part of that if they get bought by Americans to come back to the country, which does happen sometimes.
29:21Emma, do you see a certain American, like, for instance, Peter Brand is one of the leading buyers in Europe.
29:27Do you see him or some of the other people that buy over there potentially buying horses and just saying, you know what, we'll race them in Europe.
29:36Enjoy, you know, running them at Longchamp, running them at Newmarket, running them at Royal Ascot.
29:42Could that be one of the ramifications of this?
29:46I think it could well be. I mean, and that would be a bonus, obviously, for trainers here.
29:50I mean, there are already Peter Brand, as you say, he has a lot of horses in America, but also still a lot in Europe.
29:57Other owners like Craig Burnick, Jon Stewart has horses here now.
30:01You know, there's a whole bunch of people that are already taking advantage of that.
30:07Medallion Racing at Porta Fortuna with Donica O'Brien.
30:10You know, there are lots of examples of that. And I think we perhaps might see it more.
30:14You know, that, again, would potentially be a downside for American racing, which could boost trainers here and stub farms here as well.
30:22Barry Irwin, Team Valor, they have a lot of horses over there as well.
30:27Well, I'm less confused now than when we started this conversation.
30:32So you've done a good job explaining things.
30:35And for both the European and US racing industries, let's hope that these things can get straightened out so that they're not so draconian and to cause major problems.
30:46But I think on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, we have reason to worry.
30:50And thanks again for all your insights.
30:52No, it's a pleasure. We're definitely going to have to watch this space.
30:55That's for sure. Our guest of the week segment brought to you by Gainesway, home of the French classic and Breeders' Cup mile winner,
31:03Caracante, who has a horse on the Kentucky Derby trail that would be flying Mohawk co-owned by Jason Worth,
31:10who picked up 50 Derby points with his runner up finish in the Jeff Ruby Stakes.
31:15Caracante also is the sire of grade one winners Spinderella.
31:19And she feels pretty.
31:21Caracante stands at Gainesway for a fee of fifteen thousand dollars.
31:25Gainesway power, passion, performance.
31:30The sun shines bright on Caracante.
31:33His first crops of racing age are showing brilliance on the racetrack with a high percentage of stakes winners.
31:39His versatility is evidenced by winners on all surfaces across the globe.
31:43Spinderella could not have been more impressive.
31:46She feels more than pretty.
31:47She feels fantastic.
31:49It is all she feels pretty.
31:53The sun shines bright on this value sire.
31:56Caracante standing at Gainesway.
32:06An exciting finish to the Santa Anita Derby this year.
32:10I have Aaron Willman is joining me and Michael McCarthy.
32:15First of all, this horse, he got the perfect set up, didn't he?
32:21I don't know about that, Millie.
32:22He got stopped pretty good going to the three eights pole.
32:25We knew we'd have a target on our back today.
32:27You know, he announced his presence in the San Felipe, drew down on the rail to Baffert's two sheriffs.
32:32We knew that they were going to be riding us.
32:34They did for him to overcome the adversity he did today.
32:37Just proves what a spectacular horse he is.
32:40A lot of good energy and the horse is doing the talking for us.
32:43Michael, you've won some really big races.
32:45The Preakness with Rombauer, of course.
32:47But you were raised here in Arcadia and have watched the Santa Anita Derby for so many years.
32:53How does it feel to win this race?
32:54Yeah, pretty exciting.
32:55Obviously, huge day on the Santa Anita calendar.
32:58Huge day on any calendar, any kind of a derby.
33:00Obviously, the last prep before the Kentucky Derby.
33:02So to go ahead and be a part of something like this and be able lucky enough to win super special.
33:06What was important to you knowing that the Kentucky Derby is four weeks from now to see in this race?
33:12I saw a little bit of adversity today, which I thought was very, very good.
33:16As you saw around the far turn, it took him a little bit to kind of get his feet underneath him.
33:20But once Umberto was able to wheel him outside, he started getting through the gears and picking him up through the lane
33:25and leveled off nicely and looked like he finished up well and galloped out well.
33:29Congratulations to you all.
33:30He's a beautiful individual.
33:32Thanks, Millie. Appreciate it.
33:38One more Santa Anita note and an encouraging one.
33:41The Classic Meet concluded on Sunday with a total handle up five percent,
33:47attendance up, field size up seven percent, bucking a national trend.
33:53And most importantly, the track boasted a remarkable safety rating.
33:57Get this, ninety nine point nine seven one five percent.
34:03Great news coming out of the great race place.
34:07So let's turn our attention now to the other big races of the weekend
34:11and we'll start with the Wood Memorial at Aqueduct.
34:14And if you didn't like journalism before the Wood, you certainly had to like them more after that.
34:19Rodriguez, who was third in the San Felipe,
34:22beaten eleven and a quarter lengths by journalism,
34:26came back and won the Wood Memorial with Mike Smith aboard,
34:30got a good trip on the inside on the lead and certainly ran a race worthy of getting into the Kentucky Derby.
34:38But I don't know how he compares to, of course, journalism and whatnot.
34:43But I think this goes to show the strength, even in the five horse fields,
34:48of how good the California horses are this year, particularly journalism.
34:53What do you think, TD?
34:55You know, it's not often that you see a trainer employing blinkers off to try and get a wire to wire win.
35:01But that was the case with Rodriguez in the Wood.
35:05He had worn blinkers when he wired his maiden field fairly impressively back in January.
35:12And he had a triple digit buyer that day, I believe it was a 100.
35:15But in subsequent races in the Lewis and the San Felipe stakes,
35:20he was between horses and not really looking all that comfortable in either of those races.
35:26So Bob Baffert took the blinkers off for the Wood Memorial,
35:29shipped Rodriguez out to Aqueduct, and the results were impressive.
35:35He was out there on the lead.
35:38I thought he set a decent pace.
35:40He came back with a 101 buyer speed figure.
35:44And I see a lot of similarities between Rodriguez and his sire, Authentic.
35:49Both were horses who were most comfortable when allowed to roll out to the front and do their own thing on the lead.
35:56In fact, Authentic won, was five for five.
36:00He was undefeated.
36:01And two of those wins were the Kentucky Derby and the Breeders' Cup Classic
36:05in the pandemic-altered year of 2020 when he was able to get to the front end.
36:09He was just one for three in races where he did not lead during the early or middle stages of the race.
36:16And another similarity is that Authentic was kind of a late foal.
36:19He was a little mentally slower to develop.
36:22He was a May 5th foal.
36:24Rodriguez, he's a baby.
36:26He's a May 20th foal.
36:27If he makes it into the first two legs of the Triple Crown, he won't even turn officially three
36:32and hit his third birthdate until May 20th after the Preakness Stakes is run.
36:38But, you know, Authentic benefited from the Derby being run in September in that pandemic year.
36:43Rodriguez is not going to have that type of time cushion to deal with.
36:46But I thought his win was very impressive.
36:49Finished up in 148.15.
36:52That's the fastest nine-furlong race or Derby Points-awarding prep race going all the way back to 2022.
37:00Maybe a knock against him, and maybe, Randy, you could speak to this, is Speed was doing pretty well at Aqueduct on Saturday.
37:07They ran 13 races on the main track, six wire-to-wire winners, four Speed winners right up on the engine,
37:13and just one stalker and two horses from coming off the pace.
37:16So maybe the track did help them.
37:17But I think that's going to be the way that Rodriguez rolls regardless of how the track is playing.
37:22Oh, I totally agree.
37:23I mean, Rodriguez is a horse that needs to have the early lead to run his best.
37:28That's how he got his 100-buyer Speed figure when he broke his maiden.
37:32And what happened to him after then was the fact that he was in Southern California with all of Baffert's other horses.
37:37They were all running against each other, and he was compromised because of that.
37:42When he ran against Citizen Bull, they didn't want him out there dueling head-and-head for the lead
37:47with Citizen Bull, so they worked with Rodriguez on trying to settle him a little off the pace.
37:53I don't think they wanted to try to settle Citizen Bull off the pace.
37:56Plus, Rodriguez was drawn outside of Citizen Bull, so it made sense to try to settle him.
38:01He didn't handle it very well.
38:03Then they ran him against Barnes.
38:04He was drawn outside of Barnes.
38:07So the strategy there was to go to the lead with Barnes, which they did, and try to settle Rodriguez again.
38:12He didn't handle it very well.
38:13Now, finally, he escapes that.
38:15He's the only Baffert horse in the Wood Memorial.
38:18He draws the rail to boot.
38:20He finally got a chance to run again the way he likes to run.
38:26And yes, he was impressive.
38:29But now look what happens.
38:30Now he goes to the Kentucky Derby with Citizen Bull, with East Avenue.
38:36We'll talk about him in just a second.
38:38With a Japanese horse that admired Daytona, who went wire-to-wire in the UAE Derby.
38:44And oh, by the way, ridden by Christophe Lemaire, who went 21-4 the first quarter mile in the Kentucky Derby
38:50with his last UAE Derby winner, Crown Pride.
38:54So Rodriguez is very unlikely, in my opinion, to get that same sort of pace scenario that he got in the Wood.
39:01And of course, the Wood Memorial has had a terrible time producing winners of the Kentucky Derby.
39:06The last one to win it was Fusiachi Pegasus in 2000.
39:11Last horse to even run in the Wood Memorial to win the Kentucky Derby was Funnyside in 2003.
39:17So it's been a rough go for that race over the last couple of decades.
39:21I also thought there was a feel-good story here with Mike Smith.
39:24He's 59 years old.
39:26He is going to ride this horse in the Kentucky Derby.
39:29It's his 29th career mount, will be his 29th career mount in the Kentucky Derby.
39:35But how about this, guys?
39:37He rode his first Kentucky Derby 41 years ago.
39:42GD, you weren't even born 41 years ago, were you?
39:46Aboard Pine Circle as a young 18-year-old, and now he's back.
39:51It is a 59-year-old, 41 years later.
39:54And that's why they call him Big Money Mike Smith.
39:56They put up the big money, he shows up.
39:59You know what's remarkable about this, Bill?
40:03Obviously, he's 59.
40:04He'd be the oldest Kentucky Derby winning jockey if he happens to pull it off.
40:09Shoemaker was 54 when he won with Ferdinand.
40:12I remember going to Santa Anita, and I hope this doesn't offend people,
40:16because Bill Shoemaker was one of the greatest jockeys, if not the greatest of all time.
40:20But when Shoemaker was on his farewell tour, I think he was 58, almost 59 years old on his farewell tour.
40:27And I went to Santa Anita, and I was just watching a standard race in the middle of the day.
40:30Had the old school binoculars, right?
40:32It's like a 10-horse field going down the backstretch.
40:35And I'm like, who is this jockey?
40:39It was one jockey that just absolutely stood out, looked like a 10-pound bug boy.
40:44And I looked at it, and I looked at my program, it was Bill Shoemaker.
40:48At the tail end of his career, he looked like a 58-year-old jockey riding in a race, right?
40:56He didn't take care of himself the way that Mike Smith has taken care of himself.
41:01You watch the stretch run of the Wood Memorial, you can't tell Mike Smith apart from a 25-year-old rider.
41:08It's remarkable how Mike has taken care of his body and still looks as great as he does on the back of a horse.
41:18It's historic.
41:19So let's turn our attention now to the bluegrass.
41:22Burnham Square, after a kind of lackluster performance in the Fountain of Youth, wins for his connections.
41:30And I had called this before the Redemption Derby.
41:34And East Avenue was another one.
41:36He was just awful in his last two starts.
41:40He ran a bang-up second.
41:41So what happened to turn these horses around?
41:46Of the big prep races of the weekend, it got the slowest by over three of a 96.
41:51I wouldn't like Burnham Square necessarily as a pick in the Kentucky Derby,
41:55but I'm sure that they're very pleased to see him bounce back.
41:59And East Avenue, Randy, I guess, another speed horse.
42:03But all things considered, if he got the right trip, he showed so much ability in the past.
42:09And finally, it looks like he broke through and they figured out whatever the heck was wrong with him for Brendan Walsh.
42:15I would like his chances.
42:16But again, as you mentioned earlier, it might be hard for a frontrunner to win this race.
42:22I don't think there's anything wrong with him.
42:23I think he's one-dimensional.
42:25I think he has to have the early lead to win.
42:27And you saw the way he was ridden, leaving the starting gate of the bluegrass.
42:30Oh, my God.
42:32They sent the you-know-what out of him to get the early lead away from Owen Almighty.
42:36And at that point, I mean, it's like you're watching the race.
42:40Stick a fork in this horse.
42:41I mean, are you kidding me?
42:43Ride him that aggressively to get the early lead in that kind of a pace.
42:47And kudos to East Avenue that he's good enough to still be in front at the 16th pole.
42:54But the fact that Burnham Square could only beat that horse in a photo at the Wire after the way that horse was ridden early.
43:02I don't want Burnham Square.
43:04I don't want East Avenue.
43:05I don't want River Thames, who doesn't want to run a mile and an eighth, in my opinion, much less a mile and a quarter.
43:11I don't like any of the horses coming out of the bluegrass stakes, but what East Avenue is going to do, you saw the way he was ridden.
43:18He's got to be in front.
43:20He's going to be ridden that way in the Kentucky Derby as well.
43:23And he's going to contribute to what is likely to be an exceptionally fast pace in Louisville.
43:29Yeah, I actually thought East Avenue of the three ran the better race.
43:33However, like Randy, I when I had to make my TDN top 20, which is published in the Wednesday edition of Thoroughbred Daily News, I put East Avenue only as high as 7th.
43:46Burnham Square was 8th and River Thames had him at 10th.
43:51So I don't think that's a particularly strong race.
43:53But East Avenue, he gets points in my book, blinkers on, went out there, just ripped it on the front end.
43:5922.95 for the opening quarter, 46.95 for the half.
44:03He was passed by Owen Almighty at the head of the lane, clawed back the lead, and still was only pipped at the wire by the horse coming from dead last, Burnham Square.
44:13The track at Keeneland very often plays towards speed, but on Tuesday they had seven races on the main track.
44:21Only one horse went wire to wire.
44:22No horses were speed threads dueling for the lead.
44:26Two stalkers, four off the pace horses won.
44:28So he was a little bit against the grain of the surface.
44:31That 96 byer, I'm not surprised it came back the lower of the three prep races over the past week.
44:38The final time of 151.33 translates to the second slowest bluegrass since Keeneland switched their main track from synthetic over to dirt in 2014.
44:50And they weren't exactly motoring home in the final furlong, 13.44 seconds.
44:55That is the slowest closing final eighth out of nine, nine furlong races so far this year.
45:01And in fact, in any of the other races that we've seen in 24, 25 that award derby points that are nine furlongs, nobody else closed a final furlong higher than 13 seconds.
45:14So a little bit out of the norm there for East Avenue.
45:17Another thing that I noticed this race is worth pointing out is sometimes it pays to listen to your trainer.
45:23Brian Lynch said after the Tampa Bay Derby, I don't want to run in the Kentucky Derby.
45:27Source can't go a mile and a quarter.
45:29Let's let's point for the Pat Day mile.
45:32The owners got derby fever.
45:33They overruled him.
45:35And he, of all things, a dead heat.
45:37How often do you see this?
45:38A dead heat for last, which with Chancellor McPatrick.
45:43So the owners of Owen Almighty, next time maybe I'll listen to your trainer.
45:47He's a pretty smart guy.
45:48He usually knows what he's talking about.
45:50Sometimes you can get little nuggets of information that help you in your handicapping.
45:55When you listen to these trainer quotes like East Avenue coming out of the risen star, he ran so terribly.
46:01Something had to be wrong with him, right?
46:02But then you listen to Brendan Walsh.
46:04No, the worst is fine.
46:06The worst came back just fine.
46:07So then what happened to him?
46:08There's only one explanation.
46:10He didn't make the early lead.
46:12So you know how he was going to be ridden in the bluegrass.
46:14And that's exactly what happened.
46:17And the TD and Writer's Room, as always, also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
46:23This week, we continue our Pennsylvania farm tour with the stallions of Penn Oak Lane Farm and a familiar name, Preakness winner, Cloud Computing.
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46:44And Penn Oak Lane Farm is also home to Lord Shanakil by Sire of Sires Spicetown.
46:51Lord Shanakil was a group one winner of almost a million dollars.
46:54He sired 17 stakes horses, including My Dream Boat, who beat Coolmore's Breeders' Cup Turf, an ARC winner found in the group one Prince of Wales, the stakes of Royal Ascot.
47:07Lord Shanakil stands for $2,500.
47:11To learn more about Pennsylvania options, you can take a look at the 2025 Stallion and Boarding Farm Directory online at pabred.com, or you can call 610-444-1050.
47:28PA Bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
47:32It's excitement at every step.
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47:58Be a smarter better with First TV, the best horses.
48:04With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
48:12All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
48:16Everything you need to be informed.
48:19Be smart, bet smart with First TV.
48:27And I want to remind you, the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by First TV.
48:31Nice host, remember him?
48:32He's nearing a return to the races.
48:34Four-year-old has had his sharpest work yet on Sunday, going six for longs from the gate and won 11.2 in company with Speedboat Beach.
48:42It was the fastest of five moves on the day.
48:44Nice host has unraced since his win in the Robert B.
48:46Lewis over a year ago, and won his only three starts but over 26 lengths.
48:51Trainer Bob Baffert says he'll make his next start in the grade one Churchill downstakes of the Kentucky Derby undercard.
48:56Speedboat Beach won the 2000 and 23 group and grade one Malibu in his last start in 2023.
49:02He will also target a race to be determined on the Derby undercard.
49:07Well, there is more news off the track, and TD Thornton was covering it for the Thoroughbred Daily News about the decoupling situation in Florida.
49:16And the gist of it is that it passed through a Senate committee after passing through Assembly committee.
49:25But I guess, well, maybe maybe good news, maybe not good news.
49:29TD will tell us they extended now the deadline or not the deadline, but the time frame for the decoupling from five years to seven years.
49:39TD, does that mean much? I mean, is this at least somewhat of a moral victory for the non decoupling people?
49:47I guess you do have to try and pick your moral victories where you can get them.
49:51But I don't think in the legislature it's sounding that good from my perspective.
49:57The hearing that Bill is referring to happened April 1st.
50:01So it was last week, but it occurred after we taped last week's podcast, so we didn't get a chance to talk about it.
50:08But the decoupling bill, which would mean that Gulfstream Park and Tampa Bay Downs no longer have to have a statutory live racing requirement tied to their gambling licenses.
50:20It's now passed two committees in the Florida House.
50:23It passed that first one on April 1st in the Senate.
50:27The thing that struck me in reporting on that hearing was that the way that the Senate, you know, the busloads of supporters came in from Ocala,
50:38that the racing in the breeding industries in Florida wanted to make a good showing at this Senate hearing.
50:44And they did. So many of them signed up to speak that their commentary was limited to about 90 seconds of speaking each,
50:51which seemed to rattle some people who had come prepared with big speeches.
50:54And they were asked to stand down before they made their main points.
50:58But what really struck me was after everybody had testified, but before the vote, the way the senators on that committee were talking.
51:08And they were talking as if it was already a foregone conclusion that it was going to pass their committee,
51:15but that they were going to throw a bone by having an amendment, which they did amend the Senate version of the bill,
51:22as Bill said, to extend the phase in period from five years in the House bill to seven years in the Senate bill.
51:28And the way they were talking, you know, it's I'm not naive enough to think that legislators don't get together and talk about these things before the vote is a foregone conclusion.
51:38But they were pretty openly bantering this about before they took their vote about how they were sorry they had to do this.
51:48They really felt for the horse industry and that they promised there would be some dialogue in the future,
51:54whether those turn out to be real promises or empty promises, I guess we'll find out.
51:59If you're if you're skeptical about politics like me, I would think that it might kind of be empty promises.
52:04But the senators brought up a couple of points that they stuck to by their five to two vote.
52:11And one of them was that no other industry in the state of Florida, according to one of the senators on that committee, gets subsidized.
52:21It doesn't happen in Florida, not not the citrus industry, not their big dairy industry.
52:26It doesn't get subsidized. And although technically the slot revenue that horsemen receive for the purse accounts isn't a direct subsidy for the state,
52:36it's technically a pass through from a private company, meaning Gulfstream Park in Tampa Bay Downs.
52:43It's still a subsidy. And some senators brought up the fact that basing your growth on subsidies is not sustainable.
52:52You know, whether you like it or not, that's a valid point.
52:55The other thing that they seem to be hitting on, you know, some 30 people, maybe 35 people got up and testified against the bill.
53:04Only one person, Gulfstream's lobbyist, testified in favor of it.
53:08And he pointed out. And again, it's hard to argue against this.
53:11All other forms of gambling were decoupled in the state from their respective racing or high licensure back in 2021.
53:19Why is thoroughbred racing the only one left? So they bring up some points that are going to be kind of tough to get around.
53:26I know some senators brought up that they wanted to enhance some dialogue to make this a win, win, win situation.
53:33Maybe the best hope for the racing and the breeding industry in Florida lies with Governor DeSantis,
53:40who one day after those hearings last Wednesday, April 2nd, spoke at a press conference in Ocala.
53:47And he said all the right things because he was speaking in the heart of horse country in his state.
53:52But he said he was concerned about this legislation.
53:56Does his concern, is his concern enough to be able to kill the bill?
54:02I don't know. That's the big question. But we're now the clock is ticking.
54:06We're inside four weeks to win the Florida legislature.
54:09And so we might we're going to probably see one more Senate committee hearing.
54:13And then it may or may not get up for a full vote and may or may not reach the governor's desk.
54:18In my opinion, the only shot the Florida horse racing community has to get that bill defeated is a veto from DeSantis.
54:27I don't think there's a chance in hell that the Senate, that the legislature in Florida comes out against it when push comes to shove.
54:36And to be honest with you, we talked to Damon Thayer a couple of weeks ago.
54:39And you read all the quotes from the Florida horseman's lobbyists and all that.
54:45And their mantra was, you know, we understand that Belinda Stronach owns the property.
54:52We understand that it's worth two billion dollars potentially and that she's going to want to sell it.
55:00And we can't stop that. It's free enterprise.
55:02We get that. All we want is a little extra time to be able to get our ducks in a row
55:09and figure out where the horse racing industry goes from here.
55:12And that's exactly what they got in the compromise. Seven years.
55:17I mean, I don't know how much extra time they need, but I think given the reality, barring a veto from DeSantis,
55:25I think that the horse industry should be, you know, realistic and fairly pleased with the seven year compromise,
55:35because that's to me, that's easily the best that they could hope for.
55:40T.D., there's two things on the table here.
55:43First one is the desire of the Stronach group to build a casino on the property.
55:48The other one Randy just mentioned is the the value of the property.
55:54I don't think the casino there would be very successful.
55:57There's so many casinos in Florida as it is.
56:00And the Hard Rock Casino, which is iconic, you see commercials for it all the time.
56:05On television, even down here in the Northeast, it's like a mile and a half away up the road in Hollywood.
56:11I don't know how they're going to compete against that.
56:14But so then maybe the real, you know, and I can't read Belinda Stronach's mind,
56:21but maybe the thing that they really want to do is sell the property for the one to two billion dollars.
56:27Is there any chance? She says, I'm not waiting seven years.
56:30Forget about it. Pull in the plug.
56:32Goodbye, everybody. And good luck with the rest of your life.
56:37I think that that's that's certainly in the within the realm of possibility, yes.
56:42You know, the only the only mitigating part of that, Bill, is that it if Belinda wants to sell the property,
56:51and obviously she does, it's not going to be like that.
56:55You know, there are a lot of things that have to happen business wise,
57:01regulation wise and all that before all that can be perfectly consummated.
57:07It may be five years realistically before that can even actually transpire.
57:13And there's some lawsuits involved, too, apparently that have to be settled right now that are against first racing before that can happen.
57:20So I don't think. You know, a seven year thing would be that much of a deal breaker, in my opinion.
57:28All right. Well, TD Thornton's done an excellent job covering this for the TDN.
57:31And so keep watching and looking for his updates on the decoupling mess in Florida.
57:38It's an exciting time for one of our sponsors here at the TDN Writers Room, West Point Thoroughbreds,
57:43which, of course, has Arkansas Derby winner Sandman prepping for the Kentucky Derby.
57:48Sandman is now settled in at Churchill Downs with trainer Mark Cassie.
57:52And Sandman is no doubt excited about all the early speed now lining up for the Derby.
57:57West Point will also be represented in Saturday's $400,000 Stone Street Lexington Stakes by Bullard,
58:04the promising greatest stakes winning son of Gunrunner, making his first starts as January.
58:08Remember, he was in the Rebel and had to be scratched because of a minor illness.
58:11Bullard is two for three lifetime.
58:13The Lexington will be his first start around two turns.
58:16And does this sound familiar?
58:17Bullard is trained by Michael McCarthy and will be ridden by Umberto Rispoli.
58:22And if he wins the Lexington, Bullard, can you say Preakness?
58:29All the thrills. Fraction of the bills.
58:38Experience the power of the partnership.
58:43Change your life, make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
58:51West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
58:55Visit West Point TV dot com.
59:02Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
59:04I want to thank TD Thornton and Randy Moss, my co-hosts and partners.
59:08Thank Emma Berry, the Gainesway guest of the week, as well as the people that work behind the scenes.
59:13The directors and producers, Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony La Rocca and Aaliyah La Rocca.
59:18Thanks for joining us this week.
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