NTRA's Tom Rooney Talks Immigration, Taxes, Tariffs on TDN Writers' Room

Name: NTRA's Tom Rooney Talks Immigration, Taxes, Tariffs on TDN Writers' Room
Uploaded: 2025-07-16T17:35:52+00:00
Duration: 1 h 16 min 46 s
Channel: thoroughbreddailynews
Description: The NTRA's Tom Rooney has a lot to deal with in Washington right now, arguing on behalf of the racing industry for immigration, tax relief, and tariff relief. He appears on the TDN Writers' Room as the Gainesway Guest of the Week to discuss what progress is being made in Washington on those issues.

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2 days ago

The NTRA's Tom Rooney has a lot to deal with in Washington right now, arguing on behalf of the racing industry for immigration, tax relief, and tariff relief. He appears on the TDN Writers' Room as the Gainesway Guest of the Week to discuss what progress is being made in Washington on those issues.

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00:00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.

00:00:23Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.

00:00:31My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the TDN.

00:00:35Hi, I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Byerspeed Figure Group.

00:00:40Zoe Cabman with First Racing and First TV.

00:00:43Finally here ensconced in Saratoga in the Brennan household.

00:00:47And right there, you finally get to see Doodle.

00:00:50He is about as alive as Lucy right now. Can you see him?

00:00:55That little blonde. Yeah, they look about.

00:00:59Two very old, very quiet dogs.

00:01:04Yes.

00:01:05Well, soon Randy Moss will be getting on a plane to Newark to come down to beautiful Oceanport, New Jersey,

00:01:12and watch the Askel for the NBC team, which he is, of course, a huge part of it.

00:01:16We don't know. We have to always preface this. We're taping this today on Tuesday.

00:01:22The entries will not be taken until later today.

00:01:26So if we say something stupid or doesn't make any sense, that's because we don't have the official entries yet.

00:01:32But we try to do the best we can, especially in this race, because there's really, I think,

00:01:37unless one of you two want to disagree with me, it looks like there's three horses that stand out above the rest.

00:01:43It's Journalism, Gosper, and Burnham Square.

00:01:46You have each one of them has solid credentials, has reasons why they could run well, reasons why they might not run well.

00:01:53Looks like the other filler horses in the race are just trying to get, you know, kind of like have Haskell fever.

00:01:58They want to have a good time, and hopefully they'll get lucky with their horses.

00:02:01But, Randy, I want to ask you this.

00:02:03This is where I want to start it off.

00:02:04And I love the way they campaign journalism.

00:02:08This is almost like vintage how to campaign a horse from, like, 20 years ago or something.

00:02:14I mean, running all three Triple Crown races and now the Monmouth Haskell.

00:02:18And they haven't said as much, but probably the Travers, too.

00:02:21But having said that, would there be any worry that he's over the top, that it has been too much racing?

00:02:27If it was a normal horse, yeah.

00:02:30Yeah, so I suppose there has to be some concern about that because he's not only had a lot of racing, he's had a lot of tough races, a lot of really hard-fought races.

00:02:40But then, on the other hand, he certainly gives the impression of sort of a throwback kind of horse that can handle that kind of a schedule, right?

00:02:49I mean, you've got to put trust in Michael McCarthy, who knows what he's doing, certainly, one of the best trainers in the country.

00:02:54And he has not hesitated to put journalism on this course.

00:02:59So, I mean, clearly, if he runs anything close to what he ran, not just in the Triple Crown, but going back to the Santa Anita Derby and the San Felipe before that,

00:03:10then journalism would deserve to be a solid favorite in the Haskell.

00:03:15Yeah, he is, without question, the horse to beat.

00:03:17And it's funny, I thought the same thing as you, Bill, when the pre-entries, so to speak, popped up.

00:03:23I was like, it feels just like yesterday that we saw him run in the Belmont.

00:03:29It just doesn't seem that long ago, and it's really not.

00:03:32He's only had three recorded workouts at Santa Anita.

00:03:356'29", he worked 47 and 4.

00:03:387'6", he worked 47 and 2.

00:03:41And then on the 12th of July, he had his first six furlong work in 112 and change.

00:03:46Obviously, these are good works with good gallop outs because he's a high-energy horse.

00:03:51I've been privy to see him firsthand at Santa Anita a couple of weeks ago.

00:03:55I just happened to be yapping to Michael McCarthy.

00:03:58And I'm like, he was timing a horse galloping down the backside.

00:04:01And I said, who's that?

00:04:03Because I couldn't really see.

00:04:04It was all the way on the backside.

00:04:05He said, oh, just a little horse called journalism.

00:04:08I said, do you often time his gallops?

00:04:10And he said, about once a week, just to make sure he's not going deceivingly fast.

00:04:15And he was knocking off like 18, 17, 16.

00:04:20He was just doing a perfect gallop.

00:04:22But high energy, as always.

00:04:24And he might just be the ultimate throwback horse that we've ever seen.

00:04:29Now, Bob's running, I believe, goal-orientated in there,

00:04:33who has fired some warning shots with some bullets in the morning.

00:04:37He threw down a 58 flat on the 4th of July under Drayden Van Dyke,

00:04:42following a horse who was one of Randy's fastest maidens in Southern Gentleman,

00:04:47and blew the doors off him going in 58.

00:04:50And he looks like the real deal.

00:04:52And he's just kind of a green, big baby, doesn't really know what's going on yet.

00:04:57He's going to throw his hat in the ring in a big way.

00:04:59But honestly, it's journalism's race to lose.

00:05:02Let's be honest about it.

00:05:03I would put goal-oriented as sort of the co-third horse in that list,

00:05:08along with Burnham Square.

00:05:10Goal-oriented, of course, was the horse ridden by Flavian Pratt and the Preakness,

00:05:14who was trying to keep journalism from getting through that opening at the top of the stretch

00:05:18in that rugby scrum.

00:05:19The 1-2-4 finishers from the Pegasus at Monmouth, the prep for the Haskell,

00:05:25the local prep, that would be Bracket Buster, Wild and Crazy Night,

00:05:28and National Law, also expected to run.

00:05:31The Delaware Derby winner, Kentucky Outlaw, is on the list as a probable.

00:05:35And the Ohio Derby winner, Moplex, might run for Jeremiah Englehart.

00:05:41But, I mean, all those horses obviously would take a huge hind seat to journalism.

00:05:47Guys, well, if there's a big three or a big three and a half in the race,

00:05:51the other one is Gosker, who is second behind journalism in the Preakness.

00:05:55And to me, from a handicapping standpoint, I kind of look at him as the opposite of journalism.

00:06:01He's the lightly-raised horse who seems to get better every single time out.

00:06:06He's only had four lifetime starts.

00:06:08He won the Lexington.

00:06:10And he looked like he was home free in the Preakness until journalism got out of that jackpot

00:06:15and then mowed him down like nothing.

00:06:17But I would not be at least a bit surprised to see him improve four or five lengths, Zoe.

00:06:21And if that's the case, I think he can give journalism all he can handle.

00:06:26I mean, if journalism doesn't bring his A game, it'll be a very good race.

00:06:31If journalism has his A or even his A-minus game, he wins it, no questions asked.

00:06:37Yeah, totally agree.

00:06:39And, by the way, Bill, you mentioned I was flying into Newark.

00:06:42I'm actually going to fly into New York.

00:06:44I don't like what I've been reading in the papers about the Newark air traffic control

00:06:48being run by floppy disks.

00:06:51So I'm going to drive a little bit longer and go into JFK.

00:06:57You need to talk to Sue Finley about Newark airport.

00:07:01I guess she was on a plane yesterday for eight hours.

00:07:04And never got anywhere.

00:07:06I had to go home.

00:07:07So, yes, not a fun time to be flying.

00:07:10Okay.

00:07:10So now I've got it.

00:07:12One more thing about journalism.

00:07:13I talked to Aaron Wellman during the week, and I said, Aaron, in all due respects, are

00:07:17you maybe ducking sovereignty by going into the Haskell?

00:07:21He says, absolutely not.

00:07:23He says, we don't take into consideration where that horse is running and anything we do

00:07:27to make plans for journalism.

00:07:29He says, look, Jim Dandy's a $500,000 grade two race.

00:07:34The Haskell's a $1 million grade one race.

00:07:37It makes all the sense in the world to run in the Haskell and not in the Jim Dandy.

00:07:43And I really, I don't think this was owner speak.

00:07:45I really think I believe him.

00:07:47The question becomes, do they both have, you know, good racist journalism in the Haskell

00:07:52and sovereignty in the Jim Dandy?

00:07:55And then we can have them meet again in the Travers.

00:07:58And actually, if that happens, this is the closest thing we've had to a real rivalry in

00:08:03quite some time.

00:08:04Yeah, totally agree.

00:08:06And of course, that'll all depend on how journalism, A, runs in the Haskell, and B,

00:08:12how he bounces back out of the Haskell.

00:08:14But that would be really cool.

00:08:15I'm not used to this totally agreement, Randy.

00:08:18Are you feeling it?

00:08:20Oh, I've got some disagreements coming up, Zoe, I'm sure.

00:08:25All right.

00:08:25Well, do you want to disagree with me on the coaching club, American Oaks, where I think

00:08:30La Cara will win wire to wire?

00:08:32I think immersive, although beaten just a neck last time out, and did have a little bit of

00:08:38a rough trip for a while.

00:08:39She looks to me like a horse that hasn't trained on.

00:08:43You know, she's running an 83 buyer figure in the Spinaway last August.

00:08:47And now she comes out in the Monomoy Girl and was second beating the neck with an 85 buyer.

00:08:52She just doesn't seem to have made that transition.

00:08:55Now, can she win?

00:08:56Of course, she can win.

00:08:57She's a tremendous horse.

00:08:58But La Cara is pretty good, too.

00:09:01She won the Acorn by three.

00:09:02She won the Ashland by a length and a quarter.

00:09:04And then the Kentucky Oaks is just a little bit too much for her.

00:09:08But is there anything I said there that you want to disagree with, Randy?

00:09:12Not really.

00:09:14I mean, look, I think I'm looking at past performances right now.

00:09:18So that's why I'm not looking at the camera.

00:09:19Sorry, there is a horse, a couple of post positions to the inside of La Cara.

00:09:27Who could conceivably give her a run on the front end, trained by Chad Summers.

00:09:33Do you have the horse's name there on your best performance?

00:09:37Dry Powder.

00:09:38Dry Powder comes off of a one-mile race at Aqueduct in which it was extremely hot-paced.

00:09:47And she still hung in there pretty gamely.

00:09:51But if La Cara gets challenged early by Dry Power, and if Dry Power is indeed fast enough

00:09:59to keep La Cara from getting a clear early lead, then that really throws a monkey wrench

00:10:05into La Cara's chances to win.

00:10:08Because she is the kind of horse on paper that really needs to have the early lead to win,

00:10:13I think, at a mile and an eighth.

00:10:15She didn't finish all that strongly when she won her last race, but she won convincingly.

00:10:21So I think she is vulnerable if she's challenged early.

00:10:24Now, I agree with you about immersive.

00:10:28You know, I thought she gave me the impression of the kind of filly that really didn't do a lot of maturing

00:10:35from age two to age three, at least from a numbers perspective.

00:10:40You know, she had a little bit of a dicey trip early in that last race at Churchill Downs.

00:10:46But then she got through along the rail, turning for home, actually had a half length on take charge

00:10:49m'lady, and take charge m'lady battled back and out-gamed her to the wire.

00:10:54Both of those horses, you know, didn't run that fast.

00:10:56I would take a shot, honestly, at a price with Scottish Lassie.

00:11:02I don't think she really is a mile and an eighth kind of horse.

00:11:06But if La Cara is hooked early, and if immersive and take charge m'lady are really no better

00:11:12than their mid-80s numbers last time, then that really throws this race wide open.

00:11:17And I think Scottish Lassie could have a chance at 10 to 1, maybe.

00:11:21Might be a good price.

00:11:22And she's doing really, really well here at Saratoga.

00:11:26Titi's always been high on her.

00:11:28That's Jorge Abreu.

00:11:29He's still high on her.

00:11:31That 90 by a speed figure as a two-year-old jumps off the page.

00:11:35So, I mean, she's got the numbers to improve.

00:11:37As far as immersive is concerned, I'm liable to give her one more shot as a three-year-old.

00:11:43That was a lot to ask coming off the layoff.

00:11:45She is a champion for a reason.

00:11:47So, I would give her one more shot.

00:11:50Yes, she should have won that race, no question.

00:11:52But maybe the screws weren't all the way tight.

00:11:55Like, I don't really know what to think of her.

00:11:58I will say one thing.

00:11:59What about Bernardini as a broodmare sire?

00:12:01Bernardini, the broodmare sire of not only immersive here, but also La Cara.

00:12:07He's really stamped a name for himself as being one of the best broodmare sires that I think we've ever seen.

00:12:14So, it's going to be a very good race, inside to outside.

00:12:17And there could be a price that pops up by the name of Scottish Lassie.

00:12:20All right.

00:12:21And, of course, let's not forget that the best thing to come out of New Jersey since Brie Springsteen, Book of Dano, will be in the Alfred Vanderbilt handicap.

00:12:30I had my book.

00:12:30I was told I couldn't wear my Book of Dano t-shirt on the podcast today.

00:12:36I'll have to appeal that decision for maybe the next time he runs.

00:12:40But, anyways, you know, again, Alfred Vanderbilt is a very good race.

00:12:44But Book of Dano, of course, is my favorite horse, just like Randy gets his favorite.

00:12:49So, and he's got an awful good shot on there.

00:12:51This race in the true north was tremendous.

00:12:54Yeah.

00:12:54Nash is really clicking on all cylinders.

00:12:56I think that's the horse they have to worry the most about.

00:12:59But, yeah.

00:13:00Dano.

00:13:01Yeah.

00:13:02Absolutely.

00:13:03That's actually going to be a really good race.

00:13:06And I'm rooting for Dano.

00:13:08But, you know, Baby Yoda is back at one of his most favorite tracks ever.

00:13:12And he can always throw one in.

00:13:15One of his main problems is kind of going back to back with big numbers.

00:13:19He'll get Dylan Davis to ride.

00:13:22Nash could well be the horse to beat in here.

00:13:25But, I mean, Book of Dano, he just brings it every time.

00:13:28And then you've got Mulliken in there for Jose.

00:13:31So, we'll see.

00:13:33We'll see what happens.

00:13:34But you should have worn your shirt.

00:13:36If he gets beat, Phil, I'm blaming you.

00:13:38Oh, okay.

00:13:40Like grow a spine or something like that?

00:13:43Yeah, there you go.

00:13:46All right.

00:13:47Sometimes the boss is the boss is the boss.

00:13:49Listen, there's nothing you can do about it.

00:13:51But I am on record saying that I had requested to wear my Book of Dano t-shirt for this podcast today.

00:13:58And if he wins this week, I don't give a crap what anyone says.

00:14:01I will wear it next week.

00:14:02How about that?

00:14:03That's great.

00:14:04The TDN Rises Room is brought to you by Keeneland.

00:14:07Last year's Keeneland September sale produced four.

00:14:11That's four rising stars this past week alone.

00:14:15First off, Dr. Agni by intermischief out of champion Lady Eli won at first asking for trainer Cherie DeVoe at Saratoga.

00:14:23Later that day, Spectacular Gray was simply just that.

00:14:28Running away from a field of maidens by seven and three-quarter lengths.

00:14:32On Sunday at Woodbine, two-out hero was a runaway winner for his sire Warfront.

00:14:38And then on Monday, a glory me broke her maiden at Alice Park.

00:14:42The filly was the seventh highest priced gun runner at the Keeneland September sale last fall.

00:14:48Get your own TDN Rising Star at the 2025 Keeneland September sale that runs from September the 8th through September the 20th.

00:14:58It all comes down to this.

00:15:00Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

00:15:01The moment that defines the year when the world's most influential buyers gather and every decision, every bid, every opportunity shapes the future.

00:15:14At a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together and where futures are forged because every moment matters.

00:15:23The fastest horse of the week brought to you by Nashville, one of those fast sires at Winstar Farm, Nashville.

00:15:35The Keeneland's sixth furlong track record holder had his first yearling sell and sell well at Fasig-Tipton July.

00:15:43This was Hip 80, the Colt out of Lil V, who sold to Ben Gowen's agent for $200,000.

00:15:52And Hip 6, a filly out of Pure Wow, sold for $140,000 to back ring bloodstock.

00:16:00And, of course, Nashville will have more first crop yearlings on offer coming up at Saratoga.

00:16:06So, this week's fastest horse of the week is a Chad Brown combo platter.

00:16:10Two Brown trainees recorded buyer speed figures of 102, both on Saturday at Saratoga in the Diana.

00:16:18Excellent Truth edged She Feels Pretty, the favorite, after a spirited stretch battle to give Brown a tenth victory in that grade one stakes.

00:16:27Excellent Truth had previously run twice in the U.S. since being purchased by Resolute Racing's Jon Stewart.

00:16:35She was second, a close second, in both the Ginny Wiley and the Just a Game.

00:16:41The other 102 came four races earlier Saturday.

00:16:44Malarchuk won a mile and an eighth allowance on dirt.

00:16:49Malarchuk has now won two straight at Saratoga, the first by DQ, with buyer speed figures of 101 and now 102.

00:17:03Welcome in now our Gainsway Guest of the Week.

00:17:05It is Tom Rooney, the President and CEO of the National Thoroughbred Racing Association.

00:17:10He was a man who wears many hats, but one of them primarily is to be a lobbyist for horse racing in Washington.

00:17:17And I'm sure that's kept him busy over the last couple of weeks with what is going on with the tariffs.

00:17:22And let's start, first of all, because the story for laymen like us, it's kind of hard to follow because it seems like the story changes every single day.

00:17:32But as I understand right now, President Trump has proposed a 30 percent tariff on Japan, the EU and Canada.

00:17:42Is that still the case? And will any way will racehorses be exempt from that?

00:17:47I think Mexico is included with that, too.

00:17:49Obviously, if there's purchases, you know, in those countries where there's an attempt to bring that horse back to the U.S., yeah, it's going to affect it.

00:18:05There are exceptions with eventing or things like racing and potentially breeding where there's a certain amount of time that, you know, you're not technically being brought into the country as a good for a permanent stay.

00:18:23Like, you know, so in a case like the Breeders' Cup or something or the Japanese horses coming in, if Japan was part of that, they should be OK.

00:18:32There's a time there's a time limit. It's usually like a year.

00:18:37But, you know, it's it's been I, you know, I can't think of a better word than it's just been exhausting trying to navigate.

00:18:44We had, you know, the panic button going earlier this year, specifically with Canada.

00:18:53And, you know, the farms up there, the racetracks up there, a lot of those farms that come down to Lexington to breed.

00:19:01What's it going to mean? How much is it going to cost when they get to the border?

00:19:05We had to find out all that stuff. And then he canceled it like right before.

00:19:09So it was all like, well, never mind, forget it.

00:19:12And then and then so we keep coming back to it might be the EU.

00:19:18It might be Mexico. It might be this country or that country.

00:19:22So we're monitoring it. And if they actually take effect, I feel pretty confident that we have kind of like the metrics that we can tell the folks that are affected how much it's actually going to cost.

00:19:36But the bottom line is it's really the purchase and sale of horses that that would be affected the most.

00:19:44We believe that racing and breeding for the most part wouldn't be affected.

00:19:49So if I understand it, is it a 30 percent tariff on August 1st?

00:19:55And what specific countries is he targeting? Is France on there?

00:20:01Yeah, the EU is on there.

00:20:03So it would be. And, you know, I remember one of the last interactions I had with the late, great Christophe Clement was about this issue.

00:20:12And what's going to happen. Yeah. And what's going to happen in and, you know, at the sale in France.

00:20:19So we we did a lot of due diligence there and it was it was essentially that.

00:20:25And then that iteration did not come to pass. It was delayed.

00:20:29And so it is it is somewhat frustrating to try to plan this way and to get ready to go over to one of those sales,

00:20:42whether it be in England or Ireland or France or wherever and game plan and look at pedigrees and try to figure out if you're going to buy a horse,

00:20:51if there's going to be a tariff or not.

00:20:53It just is such a frustratingly moving target that, you know, we we have to just keep an eye on and see if he delays it again.

00:21:03He said I think his words were something like it's definitely August 1st unless he changes his mind.

00:21:10And when the stock market crashes or goes down and then he delays it and the stock market goes back up,

00:21:17you know, you think, OK, well, he's not going to do that again.

00:21:20And then he does. And, you know, so but we we at our office are on top of what what the actual costs will be.

00:21:30Should these tariffs actually go in effect?

00:21:33Well, the sport is very lucky to have someone with your political experience at the head of the NTRA.

00:21:38But you must feel like at times I like the Dutch boy in the dike.

00:21:43I mean, there are tariffs. Then there aren't tariffs. Then there are tariffs.

00:21:46So, oops, there's an ice rate at Delta Downs. Oops. Guess what's in the one big, beautiful bill about gambling?

00:21:53Right. I mean, my gosh, it's one thing after another after another.

00:21:56Oh, that that that that week when the the House sent the Senate their version of the big, beautiful bill.

00:22:06And then we worked the Senate to get the 100 percent bonus depreciation permanent.

00:22:14And, you know, we accomplished that.

00:22:16But then we found out that there was this glitch from what you guys may remember under the Biden administration, which was called the Build Back Better bill.

00:22:27I don't know what's with these three B's, but all these bills sound the same.

00:22:33But he essentially that administration had in there a clause that would basically negate the 100 percent bonus depreciation.

00:22:41So we found that that that was even though there was 100 percent bonus depreciation that was permanent.

00:22:51That it would be negated from this other clause for sixty one.

00:22:55So we had to go to the majority leader, Senator Thune's office, and we had to go to Senator Crapo's office and all these offices and tell them like this is this is a leftover from the Biden administration.

00:23:08The first Trump bill back in 2017, when I was still in Congress, didn't include this.

00:23:15And one of the reasons why we think that it was in there was because, you know, they needed to show that they, you know, weren't cutting or spending, I should say, as much.

00:23:25And this was twenty five billion dollars that somehow didn't get, you know, cut out of the Build Back Better bill.

00:23:34But for for those of us in this business, it was very important that it was it was part of the bill because essentially and I don't know, you know, if it's OK if I continue to try to explain this.

00:23:46But essentially for those horse owners that say that you made a lot of money in your life in business and you sold your business and then you invested all your money essentially in the stock market and with whatever you make in the stock market, you start buying horses.

00:24:06You know, there's a lot of people in our business, as you all know, that fit that category.

00:24:10And so they don't have any other business expenses except their horse business.

00:24:14With this one clause that we were worried about, if the only income that you had was from basically the stock market, the most that you could write off was two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

00:24:29You had one hundred percent bonus depreciation, but if it couldn't fall into another business, then you are capped at two hundred and fifty thousand.

00:24:38Which if you look at some of these guys that goes to these sales and they've got a lot of money in the bank because they already sold their business that they built and now they were just living off of stock dividends or whatever, it was capped.

00:24:52And so we had to get it uncapped so they could write off one hundred percent of whatever they were buying at the sales.

00:24:58And we were successful doing that.

00:24:59It was a major victory for really the sales, but for those types of people that, you know, have gotten to a point in their life where, you know, the horse business is their only business.

00:25:13And this just doesn't include buying horses.

00:25:14It's buying farms, everything that goes within the farm, that kind of that kind of thing.

00:25:20And so there's a lot of people that fit into that category.

00:25:23And so, you know, and to have it permanent, to know that it's going to be there until unless, you know, it's voted to to be overturned some in some future Congress with a future president.

00:25:37As opposed to the last time we did this in 2017, it was tiered every year, went down 20 percent.

00:25:44So that was that was that was a nice victory and it was nice to get that change.

00:25:51But. We were also given the language from the Senate back to the House, which was just to concur.

00:26:00And, Randy, this goes to one of the things that you were talking about.

00:26:04It it reduced the amount that people that gamble from 100 percent to 90 percent.

00:26:10People people were calling my office like, can you can can you offer an amendment?

00:26:15Can you get somebody to offer an amendment?

00:26:17And there was no amending this bill.

00:26:20This was either take it or leave it like you had to vote to concur or not concur.

00:26:24This wasn't the House already had their crack at it.

00:26:27The Senate had their crack at it.

00:26:29Now is the House to concur or not to concur.

00:26:31So that was sort of like slipped in there at the dead of night.

00:26:34We had no indication that that was coming.

00:26:36Nobody did. Not us, not the casino people, you know, not the poker people.

00:26:41Nobody knew that that was going to happen.

00:26:43And so that was the downside of the big, beautiful bill.

00:26:47But luckily, there's a there's a new piece of legislation called the Fair Bet Act by Representative Titus of Las Vegas that fixes that.

00:26:57So we've signed on to that.

00:26:59They were getting a lot of co-sponsors.

00:27:01And so we'll keep working that issue over the next this Congress.

00:27:06My gosh, the immigration situation, which might be the most dangerous of all of this to the future of horse racing.

00:27:15What what can be done?

00:27:17I mean, talk to somebody who can talk to somebody who then can talk to President Trump and and, you know,

00:27:23maybe in some way forgive what's going on with immigration on the backsides of racetracks.

00:27:29I mean, what can be done there?

00:27:31I can only tell you what I've done.

00:27:32And what I've done is I have people that work at the Department of Homeland Security that I worked with when I was in Congress.

00:27:41And I asked them specifically after Delta Downs, you know, are you guys targeting us?

00:27:47Are you going to target us?

00:27:48And they assured me that they're not.

00:27:51That that was a coordinated effort with the Louisiana law enforcement agency, whoever cooperated with them to go into Delta Downs.

00:27:59They were supposed supposedly only looking for a few people that were had committed crimes other than their illegal status.

00:28:08And then they end up rounding up like 80 more people.

00:28:10So I just wanted some sort of, you know, assurance that racing wasn't being targeted.

00:28:21And and this person assured me that that we weren't what they were looking for were people.

00:28:27First and foremost, there was three categories.

00:28:30First and foremost, people that have warrants out for their arrest other than being an illegal or here illegally or overstaying their visa or what have you.

00:28:39So people that committed other crimes, essentially.

00:28:43Secondly, if they feel like those people exist at places of employment, like a racetrack, they will get with that racetrack and they will say, you know, we need your your list of employees and we're going to check them to make sure that they're here legally.

00:29:02If they're not, we're going to ask you to give them to us or we're going to come get them.

00:29:06Now, most racetracks are private property.

00:29:08Keep in mind. So, you know, you can't come in without a warrant.

00:29:11Now, there is others that aren't like Monmouth or Del Mar or or any of the ones that are run by the state.

00:29:17So there's differences of what what law enforcement can and can't do when they come in.

00:29:23And then the third category was just the people that are outside of Home Depot looking to get picked up to get, you know, work for that day.

00:29:29And that was, you know, not as high on their list.

00:29:33But since then, you know, they've left us alone.

00:29:38So, I mean, it's good.

00:29:39But I also I called him back the next day and I said, hey, just one more little point here.

00:29:44You know, apparently anybody can call DHS and tip them off that like there's people that are working at this construction site or something that I think are here illegally.

00:29:55And that's like kind of like the tip, the tip off program to go in there.

00:29:59You know, we've got people that don't like racing that can say that, you know, just to disrupt us and make our lives miserable.

00:30:06And he's like, I understand.

00:30:08So hopefully Delta Downs was an anomaly and it's not something that, you know, we have to deal with time and time again.

00:30:20You mentioned, yeah, you mentioned that obviously they're not allowed to go into privately owned racetracks.

00:30:29But then you mentioned Del Mar that they could like realistically just walk into Del Mar because it's it's open to the public.

00:30:37There there are restricted spaces even within publicly owned that's getting into the weeds.

00:30:44But like if there's parts of publicly owned areas at the track that are cordoned off, like, you know, with a locked gate or something like that, or like specifically the dormitory, if there's a dormitory on a racetrack that's publicly owned and it's locked, you can't necessarily just go in there and say this is a public dorm I'm coming in.

00:31:05There are there is reasonable expectations of privacy, even in publicly owned places to an extent.

00:31:12Well, generally speaking, that property as a whole is is publicly owned land.

00:31:18But there are cases, there's case law, which which show that even in places like that, some some people may have a reasonable expectation of privacy that the courts have upheld.

00:31:33Tom, I wanted to get back to the provision where you can only deduct 90 percent of your losses from your gambling earnings.

00:31:42And first of all, how is this enforceable?

00:31:45You know, I go to the track every Saturday.

00:31:47I'm a medium sized better at the end of the year.

00:31:51I have returned eighty thousand dollars and lost seventy five thousand dollars.

00:31:57So therefore, when the ninety percent tax comes in, I would owe the IRS money.

00:32:02What ability do they have to accept for maybe the biggest bettors around?

00:32:07What ability do they have to actually like follow that?

00:32:10And is it just going to be up to people to do this?

00:32:13Because they want to be honest about paying their tax.

00:32:16Yeah, that's it.

00:32:18It's it's it's the you know, it's the big gamblers that actually go to their accountants and and, you know, try to incorporate this in their in their yearly taxes.

00:32:29So, you know, those of us like me, I don't gamble that much.

00:32:34I own race horses.

00:32:35So that's enough lost money for me.

00:32:38But, you know, but for people that are professional gamblers that actually go to their accounts at the end of the year and they show what their profits are, what their losses are and what they, you know, can, I guess, prove through through their tax, through their taxes is is what the number is going to be.

00:32:59I even, you know, I was talking I was talking with an accountant about like, you know, people bring in there like losing tickets and and Jen Shaw, who you all may know from Dean Dorton in Lexington.

00:33:12It's just like there was a day where people were coming in with their shoeboxes of tickets.

00:33:16And it's it's it's mind blowing to me that I've done it.

00:33:20I've done it.

00:33:21That that's acceptable.

00:33:23But apparently, you know, that's that's all part of the deal.

00:33:28And we did tell just, you know, we heard a rumor that the reason why that this happened is they were looking for money for wherever they could get.

00:33:37So, like, you know, the one depreciation thing that I already talked about was twenty five billion.

00:33:43And when we went to the Senate, they're like, well, you're going to have to find out twenty five billion dollars somewhere else so that we can do this for you.

00:33:51And so, you know, we were able to figure out how to do that.

00:33:56But then, like, when this came in, it was a billion dollars they thought that they were going to be able to make through reducing it from one hundred percent to ninety percent.

00:34:03But then that begs the question, maybe people won't bet as much if they don't if they're not able to, you know, write off as much of a loss.

00:34:11But but we'll see.

00:34:14I mean, it was it was just one of those things that was thrown in there at the last second.

00:34:18And we couldn't change it. And, you know, there were so there were so many other things in this bill that I don't think people were going to vote it like Andy Barr or anybody for even from Kentucky.

00:34:28We're going to vote against it because of that.

00:34:30But but but now we have our next project that we're working on.

00:34:34So back in the day, go ahead.

00:34:38Well, another question on that is in any way, shape or form, will this 90 percent deal affect the C.A.W. players?

00:34:45My guess would be no, because they're all offshore.

00:34:48And I don't know if, you know, where I'm sure their bank accounts, their betting accounts, et cetera.

00:34:54But is there any is there any thought that, you know, this could come back and bite these guys?

00:35:01I mean, if they're not offshore, if they're here.

00:35:04I mean, I've I visited a place in Las Vegas, Nevada, that that didn't look like it was offshore to me.

00:35:12And so, I mean, if they are going and they're putting this as part of their year end tax, I assume it is going to affect them.

00:35:21So, you know, like I said, anybody that's claiming this loss as a gambler, and I think that they'd certainly qualify, would be affected by it.

00:35:32A 10 percent loss on taxes would easily wipe out a 10 percent rebate so that, yeah, I could see where that would be.

00:35:38Back in the daytime, I knew professional gamblers that would keep a loose leaf notebook.

00:35:44And every day they would write down the bets they made, the winning and the losing bets, and they would take their losing tickets and scotch tape them to the notebook page.

00:35:52And then at the end of the year, they would take that into their accountant.

00:35:55And now, of course, with all the ADW play, it's much easier online to keep up with everything like that.

00:36:02Right.

00:36:02I actually had this conversation with my son last night because he has an account to bet on sports or whatever, and he does little parlays.

00:36:12But they keep – you can click on a button to look at your annual history.

00:36:17So it's much easier to see, you know, if you're winning or losing or what have you.

00:36:22So you've been – go ahead, Zoe.

00:36:26Do you see any light at any – at the end of any of the tunnels?

00:36:31You know, politics is a game that you have to play with the field that you're given.

00:36:39And this is the field that we're given.

00:36:41And there's a lot of curveballs with tariffs and immigration that keep you on your toes and, you know, create some anxiety.

00:36:51But then you have things like being able to do 100% bonus appreciation that's permanent that gives the industry a little bit of confidence when it comes to buying horses.

00:37:02You know, it just – it's a never – and it's why, you know, lobbyists get a bad name because of them having a lot of control.

00:37:12But, you know, part of their business is that nothing is ever really solved.

00:37:17You have to have something next to work on.

00:37:19And if you don't – you don't have anything else to work on, then you don't have a job.

00:37:23So, no, I – you know, this is all part of politics.

00:37:27I can tell you, though, honestly, and whether you believe in it politically or not, this victory that we had with at least the bonus depreciation, we're about to lose – it was about to go to zero next year.

00:37:44So, we went from 100 to 80 to 60 to 40 to 20.

00:37:47It was about to go to zero, which means that you could write off none of your losses or expensing when you bought a horse or a farm or anything there.

00:37:57And so, I think it was going to be a huge burden on our industry when that was going to happen.

00:38:05And I got elected in 2008.

00:38:08And I think that since then until now, there's probably been three days in my political life where I felt like we made a difference.

00:38:18And that was one of them.

00:38:20So, it was – I think it was a huge victory.

00:38:26But, like I said, there's other things that we now have to work on.

00:38:30We're constantly monitoring the immigration issue.

00:38:33We're constantly trying to, you know, with a grain of salt, figure out what tariffs are going to really impact us or what's really going to happen or not happen.

00:38:41And, I mean, but that's part of this job.

00:38:44I mean, I think that's why it's important why the industry felt like the NTIA needed to have an office here in Washington, D.C.

00:38:51Do you ever remember a time when the sport had this many legislative balls up in the air at the same time?

00:38:57Well, you know, I know that several years back they were able to – this office, even though it was headquartered in Lexington at the time,

00:39:08was able to get the exotic bets made exotic rather than, like, all lumped in together.

00:39:15A trifecta was actually three bets rather than one, so you wouldn't have to go to the IRS window as often because they were three separate bets.

00:39:24That was a nice little victory.

00:39:26But as far as just everything that we have to deal with – and these aren't divorce-specific.

00:39:32They affect everybody.

00:39:34It just so happens that these things that we've been working on, 100% bonus depreciation, immigration, tariffs, everybody's affected.

00:39:42The only thing that everybody's not affected by, the thing that we're working on, is this Fair Bet Act to get it back to 100% from 90% for gamblers.

00:39:49Everything else that we deal with is affecting the entire country as a whole.

00:39:55So we're part of, you know, this – we're part of this bigger picture together.

00:40:01But, you know, we have a lot of people on our team that work for people on my board that work here in Washington that work very hard every day to make sure that the committees that matter, the politicians that matter.

00:40:23I'm going to – I'm going to a meeting here after I meet with you, with Congressman Barr, and then I'm going to dinner with the Speaker of the House tonight.

00:40:34And this is all just like, hey, what do you do again?

00:40:37Oh, yeah, you work with race horses.

00:40:38How's that going?

00:40:39You just got to constantly remind them what you're doing, why you're doing it, and why it's important.

00:40:46And that's our job.

00:40:48So, you know, and we'll keep it up.

00:40:51Well, you look very dapper.

00:40:55I'm wearing my Oak Lawn tie that I got at the gift shop, which, you know, a little anecdote about Oak Lawn as we're talking about immigration.

00:41:05One of the things that the guy from Homeland Security told me is normally what they do is they call you and say, hey, you got two guys that are working for you there that are bad guys.

00:41:14They're wanted for really bad crimes.

00:41:17We turned them over, and they did, and that was the end of the story.

00:41:19So, I mean, you might see that, and that's way more acceptable than what happened at Delta Downs.

00:41:27But, you know, so those are two – there's different levels of what's happening going on, but hopefully it's more like the Oak Lawn situation.

00:41:36Okay, so I got a good question for you on that particular necktie.

00:41:39You go back to the Oak Lawn gift shop next year.

00:41:43You find out that that necktie was manufactured in China.

00:41:46You have to pay a tariff on it.

00:41:47No, because I already bought it, so –

00:41:51Okay, there's no one you're going to buy this year.

00:41:53Was that a Charles Sella designed necktie?

00:41:56It is.

00:41:57There you go.

00:41:58He told me that it was.

00:42:00I don't know what horse this was for, but it says the 100th, so –

00:42:04Oh, that's a good one.

00:42:05The 100th Arkansas Derby.

00:42:07Whoever won that one.

00:42:08Right.

00:42:09I'm sure – Randy, you don't know that.

00:42:11What the hell?

00:42:12Zoe, I've got a whole closet full of Oak Lawn ties that Charles Sella designed personally that were made in Italy.

00:42:20There you go.

00:42:21Well, EU, now you've got to pay a tariff on them.

00:42:23Yeah.

00:42:24Maybe.

00:42:24Maybe we will.

00:42:25Maybe we won't.

00:42:27See how it goes.

00:42:30Well, Tom, thanks so much for the work you're doing on behalf of the industry.

00:42:33There's a lot of balls up in the air, and let's hope at the end of the day things come out to be at least satisfactory so far as where we're going with all the various problems with the big, beautiful bill and whatnot.

00:42:46And maybe we'll check in with you again in a couple months to get an update on it.

00:42:49Sounds good.

00:42:50Thanks for being our guest today and the Gainesway Guest of the Week.

00:42:53My pleasure.

00:42:54Our guest of the week, Tom Rooney, was brought to you by Gainesway, the home of stallions like Caraconte.

00:43:01This weekend, Caraconte was represented by the Philly Roja, owned by Eclipse Thoroughbreds and Mataket Stables.

00:43:09Roja got her first stakes victory in the Blue Sparkler Stakes at Monmouth Park.

00:43:15Also this weekend, Caraconte hit his highest earning lifetime performer on the big stage at Saratoga.

00:43:21We mentioned earlier, she feels pretty.

00:43:24Came up just short of getting her fourth straight grade one stakes win in the Diana, just ahead behind Excellent Truth.

00:43:31But obviously, she feels pretty, has an exciting season still ahead of her.

00:43:35Caraconte stands for $15,000 at Gainesway Farm.

00:43:39Gainesway, power, passion, performance.

00:43:42The sun shines bright on Caraconte.

00:43:47His first crops of racing age are showing brilliance on the racetrack with a high percentage of stakes winners.

00:43:53His versatility is evidenced by winners on all surfaces across the globe.

00:43:58Spandarella could not have been more impressive.

00:44:00She feels more than pretty.

00:44:01She feels fantastic.

00:44:03It is all.

00:44:04She feels pretty.

00:44:06Well, the official opening of the official Saratoga meet got underway last week.

00:44:19You might call it the third opening day of the season, all the other racing they've been doing up there.

00:44:23But as so often happens, the story is not necessarily what happens on the racetrack.

00:44:29It's what happens with the weather.

00:44:31And, you know, for somebody who went up there for 25 straight years, I still know firsthand.

00:44:36I mean, it could be at 8 o'clock in the morning, sunny and dry.

00:44:39And then at 830, they're going to have two inches of rain.

00:44:42It's just unbelievable the deluges as they get.

00:44:45And that happened on Saturday.

00:44:47We had a really good card lined up for Saturday with the Diana and the Bowling Green as the feature races.

00:44:54A couple of really interesting maiden races.

00:44:56They took all the races off the grass except for the two stakes races.

00:45:00And there was 56 scratches on the card.

00:45:03They handled $22 million.

00:45:05Well, what track wouldn't be happy with a $22 million handle?

00:45:08That's great for just about everybody in the world.

00:45:11But in 2024, they handled $33 million.

00:45:14So they lost up about $11 million in handle.

00:45:17The next day, the previous day, they also lost a lot of handle.

00:45:20So they're off to a horrible start.

00:45:23Now, I want to bring up something that people are going to think I'm crazy.

00:45:26That's fine.

00:45:27But we heard this first from David O'Rourke on our podcast.

00:45:33The one thing that could solve all of Saratoga's problems is do what Gulfstream did, put in a synthetic track.

00:45:39Races are off the turf.

00:45:40You go to the synthetic turf.

00:45:41The 12-horse race, instead of scratching down to four, scratches down to 10.

00:45:45And you have a good race.

00:45:48O'Rourke told us last week that you can't fit another track on the main side of the road at the main grandstand.

00:45:56There's just no more room.

00:45:57But he himself suggested that maybe we could make the training track at Oklahoma, the dirt training track, into a tapita course and run the races over there.

00:46:08Now, that would be a logistical nightmare, all the going back and forth and everything.

00:46:13You're going to have to get steward stands built there and everything.

00:46:15But you know what?

00:46:16If you're going to keep losing and having days where you lose $11 million in handle, it's going to pay for itself within one meet.

00:46:21I think it's a good idea.

00:46:23Am I crazy, Zoe?

00:46:25Yes.

00:46:26Yeah, okay.

00:46:26Randy, go ahead.

00:46:27Why?

00:46:27No, Zoe.

00:46:28Zoe, go ahead.

00:46:28Well, first off, opening day is not the same because they had the 4th of July festival.

00:46:35So you're not going to get the same numbers that you perhaps got a couple of years ago.

00:46:42Opening day was good weather and that was perfect.

00:46:45Secondly, as far as the rain is concerned, yes, it absolutely pissed down.

00:46:52It rained for about an hour and a half.

00:46:54Got some hail in some spots.

00:46:56Basically, as soon as the last race went off on opening day, it rained for an hour and a half.

00:47:02But that was kind of it.

00:47:03And if you look at the times of the races that they ran on the turf course, it wasn't that bad.

00:47:09Now, those races were later in the day.

00:47:11And I can understand taking some of the races off the turf.

00:47:16But you're carding six turf races a day, right?

00:47:18You know it's going to rain.

00:47:19Perhaps you need to rework something, not card as many, perhaps card some all later.

00:47:26And as fast as the Diana ran, as fast as the quick call ran, they weren't ripping up the turf course.

00:47:32We've only got 40 days of racing.

00:47:34Run on the turf.

00:47:35You don't have to run every race on the grass, but they could have run a couple more races than they did, as far as I'm concerned.

00:47:42And I'm not saying it didn't rain because it stormed and it rained really hard.

00:47:47And you could not have run those races at 10 o'clock in the morning.

00:47:51But it dried out throughout the day.

00:47:53And look at the time of the Diana.

00:47:55I don't have it down in front of me, but it was a good time.

00:47:58Quick fractions.

00:47:59The quick call.

00:48:00Good fractions.

00:48:01You know, maybe half a second off of what it should have been, but not the yielding they were calling it.

00:48:06So, I don't know what the answer is.

00:48:09As far as running over there, you answered your own question.

00:48:14It's a logistical nightmare to run on that side.

00:48:18And you need two dirt tracks here at Saratoga to train on because there are so many horses here.

00:48:25You can't have them all wanting to train on dirt on the main track.

00:48:28That's going to give you problems with the base of the main track during the meet with that many horses training on it.

00:48:34Because there's a lot of old school trainers here that want to train on dirt.

00:48:37They don't want to train on the synthetic.

00:48:39And I love the synthetic.

00:48:40But I get it.

00:48:43I really do.

00:48:44Zoe, I'm glad you brought up what you did because the track condition,

00:48:48the course condition for the Diana was good.

00:48:51Now, that's not firm, but it's not soft.

00:48:54It's not yielding.

00:48:55And the Bowling Green, it was listed as yielding.

00:48:59But I totally agree with you.

00:49:01Don't be such mamby-pambies about, you know, taking these races off the grass all the time.

00:49:06If the course was good enough to be labeled good in the Diana, you definitely could have run.

00:49:12What, they dropped five grass races off the card.

00:49:15You definitely could have run another two or three on the grass without a doubt.

00:49:18I mean, from a jockey standpoint, I mean, I know you didn't walk over the course, but would you have had any problem with that?

00:49:25No.

00:49:25And I get it if they're taking them off because it's not safe.

00:49:28I totally get that.

00:49:30Don't run any races on it.

00:49:31If you think the rain, sometimes the rain will cause it to be a little bit slippy on the top and still firm underneath.

00:49:37I totally get that.

00:49:38But the fact that the Quick Call and the Diana were run under good conditions with good times, there were not footballs coming up.

00:49:47You've got two turf courses, multiple lanes.

00:49:50And yes, we're going to have tons of turf racing.

00:49:53I get it.

00:49:54But it's still going to rain throughout the meet.

00:49:55All right.

00:49:59Opinions.

00:50:00Opinions.

00:50:03I'm not going to second guess the track superintendent at Saratoga who knows more about his turf course than any of us.

00:50:11And no one has more incentive to keep races on the turf than the New York Racing Association.

00:50:19So I, you know, even though I'm usually the dissident in all things like this, I'm going to just go along with their decisions on what races to keep on the turf and what races not to.

00:50:32Look, because I guess I have nothing better to do.

00:50:37I pulled out my book of ancient past performances as if I expected to see anything different.

00:50:44Weather, sloppy tracks, muddy tracks, heavy tracks, slow tracks, good tracks have always been an issue at Saratoga going back to the 1800s.

00:50:54And it's always going to be unless they put a dome on top of the racetrack, right?

00:50:59The only answer is Tepeda.

00:51:01If you want to keep these races from scratching down to three or four or five horse fields, that's it.

00:51:09That's really the only solution.

00:51:12I mean, look at, you mentioned Gulfstream, look at Woodbine.

00:51:14On Saturday, as far as I'm concerned, Woodbine might have set a North American record with seven races off the turf.

00:51:23And those all switched, obviously, to Woodbine's main track, which is Tepeda.

00:51:27And they had big fields and it was very formful racing.

00:51:30Now, but how do you do that at Saratoga?

00:51:32The Oklahoma thing?

00:51:33I think David O'Rourke was just spitballing.

00:51:36I mean, I think that's a crazy idea.

00:51:38Just if nothing else, and Zoe pointed out some good reasons not to do it, the fans.

00:51:45We're going to build a big grandstand at Oklahoma?

00:51:47You know, you're going to ask these people over there at the main grandstand to sit on their hands and not watch any live racing for two or three consecutive off-the-turf races run across the street at Oklahoma?

00:52:00You've got to put TV tower?

00:52:01That's not going to work.

00:52:03But Saratoga has two turf courses.

00:52:07It would be nice.

00:52:09It's a luxury to have two turf courses.

00:52:11Do they really need both turf courses?

00:52:14Why not convert the inner turf into Tepeda?

00:52:18You don't necessarily have to add a Tepeda track to the inside of the dirt track and the outer turf and the inner turf.

00:52:26Of course, there's no room then.

00:52:28But what if you just replace the inner turf with Tepeda and run it that way?

00:52:33To me, that's the only possible solution to the dilemma that they face with the weather year in and year out.

00:52:40Good point.

00:52:42So the Saratoga Jockeys race has gotten off to an interesting start.

00:52:46Erad Ortiz Jr. with nine wins.

00:52:48Brother Jose with eight.

00:52:50Flavion Pratt with six.

00:52:51And I proposed in my TDN Writer's Room column that they should have a bet on who will be the leading jockey of the meet.

00:52:59Patrick McKenna from Naira quickly told me it's impossible because under the statutes of the state, you can only have wagering on events involving equines.

00:53:09But go up to Balbany and get that fixed.

00:53:11That shouldn't be any problem.

00:53:13I would have so much fun with this, especially in a year like this where I think Erad's won three previous years.

00:53:20This year, there's a three-horse race for sure.

00:53:24And I think a lot will depend on who goes out of town on the weekends.

00:53:27For instance, who will be at the Haskell on Sunday.

00:53:30But I think Erad's going to get beat this time.

00:53:32I think Jose Ortiz has been riding just superbly.

00:53:39And he's really getting the attention of some really top trainers.

00:53:43And I think he's going to beat Brother Erad for the riding title for what it's worth.

00:53:47It wouldn't be the first time.

00:53:48I mean, and Ortiz has won the Saratoga riding title nine of the last ten years.

00:53:54Six of those were I-Rad, but three of those were Jose.

00:53:57I mean, the only jockey that interrupted that string was Luis Saez, who won the jockey title over I-Rad back in 2021.

00:54:05I mean, right now, for the record, I-Rad nine, Jose eight, and Flavian Pratt six.

00:54:11Unless Flavian puts on an absolute full-court press, he and his agent, to ride in many more races than he usually does.

00:54:21Ride in some of the cheaper races, maiden-claiming races, whatever.

00:54:24It's going to be tough for Flavian to unseat I-Rad or Jose.

00:54:29He could do it.

00:54:30But last year, how are you going to have a better Saratoga meet than Flavian Pratt had last year, right?

00:54:36He won 14 graded stakes at Saratoga.

00:54:39He won seven grade ones at Saratoga.

00:54:42He was riding first call for Chad Brown, who was the runaway leading trainer.

00:54:45He won $6.6 million in purses, by far more than any other rider, including I-Rad.

00:54:51And he was still second in the jockey standings behind I-Rad.

00:54:55So I would make I-Rad a very slight, very slight favorite over Jose.

00:55:00And then a very slight, Jose, a very slight favorite for second over Flavian.

00:55:05But it's going to be a lot of fun to watch.

00:55:06Don't you think, Zoe?

00:55:07You should be at a better trifecta and get them in the correct order.

00:55:11That would be, you know, the one to do.

00:55:14And I think that Flavian has eclipse fever.

00:55:18That's what he's after, another eclipse award.

00:55:20He already took down the Diana with a brilliant ride on Excellent Truth to beat the favorite.

00:55:27So he's got his first grade one at the meet.

00:55:29He's going to miss a couple of weekends because he's going to the Haskell on Saturday.

00:55:33The following weekend, he's going to be down to ride Nisos in the San Diego.

00:55:38So the chances of him being leading rider probably aren't going to happen.

00:55:43He's just looking for stakes wins.

00:55:46And I made the rest of the field 12 to 1.

00:55:48And if anybody's got a wise guy pick like Dylan Davis or something like that.

00:55:53Okay.

00:55:54So that is my take on that.

00:55:56That would be fun.

00:55:57They really should think be a little bit more adventurous than that.

00:56:01And I don't see any reason why the New York Gaming Commission wouldn't let them do it if they asked.

00:56:05The TD and Riders are brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.

00:56:12This weekend, the Pennsylvania Bread Program was represented well at Saratoga by Concrete Glory, who won Saturday's 10th race.

00:56:20She's bred by the Bodemeister Syndicate and Kyle Horlacher.

00:56:24And the Pennsylvania Bread Concrete Glory was second in the Gulfstream Park Sprint Stakes earlier this year.

00:56:31Also, congratulations in order to UTCB Stud, LLC, who leads in Total Breeder and Stallion Awards through April.

00:56:40So a third of the way through 2025, UTCB has 190,000 plus in those awards.

00:56:48Pennsylvania now has eight breeders on pace for over 200,000 in Total Breeders Awards.

00:56:53And two, it could wind up hitting the million dollar mark.

00:56:56If you want to share in that 27 million total payout, just go to PABread.com or call 610-444-1050.

00:57:05PABread, I think we've built a brand at this point.

00:57:13It's excitement at every step.

00:57:16Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.

00:57:19One average for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.

00:57:28Plus, PABreads shine on the world's biggest stage.

00:57:31Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.

00:57:34Learn more at PABread.com.

00:57:38Be a smarter bettor with First TV.

00:57:41The best horses.

00:57:44With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.

00:57:52All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.

00:57:57Everything you need to be informed.

00:58:00Be smart.

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00:58:02With First TV.

00:58:04The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by First TV.

00:58:10First TV's work of the week is journalism, as he is now headed to the July 19th Haskell Stakes at Monmouth Park.

00:58:17And this was his first serious piece of work Saturday at Santa Anita in preparation for that.

00:58:24The Michael McCarthy trainee works in company with Phosphorance.

00:58:28That's journalism on the outside, that's journalism on the outside there.

00:58:30Under Umbi Rispoli, they hit the wire in 112.

00:58:34That was his third recorded workout at Santa Anita since exiting the Belmont Stakes.

00:58:40So, there were a ton of TDN Rising Stars over the weekend.

00:58:44This is what you get this time of year with Saratoga running and with Del Mar coming up.

00:58:49But there was one that was not only a horse that raced very strongly, very impressively, but a real sentimental story.

00:58:58And I'm talking about Dr. Agney, who won at Saratoga last week in an off-the-track maiden race, is by Into Mischief out of Lady Eli.

00:59:06So, that breeding right away just jumps right off the page.

00:59:09That's superstar breeding.

00:59:10I believe I read this.

00:59:12She was Lady Eli's first foal to win in North America.

00:59:16But if that's not correct, I apologize for that.

00:59:20But the thing that makes it so emotional is that the horse was named for Robert Agney, who was the late veterinarian, who was part of the team, was given credit for saving Lady Eli's life after she had laminitis.

00:59:33Dr. Agney was struck by a car when he was bike riding in Vermont in 2015, and to not only name the horse after him, but have the horse turn out to be a good horse.

00:59:44That's a pretty cool story.

00:59:46Yeah, it's a really, really cool story.

00:59:49And his late wife was there to watch this horse cross the finish line in front.

00:59:54I actually looked at him as a yearling.

00:59:57He was sold to Eddie Woods Quarterpole Enterprises at the Keeneland September sale, and Eddie had put him in the OBS March sale.

01:00:08So, I reached out to Eddie this morning, and, you know, Eddie is one of my favorite people in the world.

01:00:14So, I reached out and simply asked him, you know, how did Mattercat et al. come to buy this horse?

01:00:20And he simply said, I have to read it to you.

01:00:22He said he prepped poorly in March in his pre-breeze, ran a fever the next day, but missed quite a bit of time, eventually came back to his wonderful self after watching him work three-eighths.

01:00:33They chased him hard, Cherie driving the car hard, and as they say, the rest is history.

01:00:39And they were obviously down there at the farm, saw him, Cherie's connection with Lady Eli.

01:00:44So, I said, thanks, Eddie.

01:00:45Hope you're enjoying retirement somewhere on an island with an umbrella in your drink.

01:00:49And he texts back, yes, have an umbrella out on an island, in Ireland, raining sideways today.

01:00:58So, you know, he always liked him.

01:01:00I think he paid $185 for him, and he was supposed to be put in the OBS March sale, but he wasn't.

01:01:08And Cherie liked him, and they put together a team and bought him.

01:01:11He looks like a trout horse, by the way.

01:01:13Like, watching him at the Keelan sale, like, I looked up my notes today, and it was, like, dirt, like, just dirt.

01:01:23And he ran in an off-the-turf event.

01:01:25Now they keep saying that he's going to be better on the grass.

01:01:28I don't know.

01:01:30Unless he's really changed that much, because he looked more like intermischief than Lady Eli.

01:01:35But it'll be exciting to watch him.

01:01:36But, to me, he looks physically like an intermischief dirt horse.

01:01:42I wish you guys wouldn't do this to me.

01:01:44You turn me into the curmudgeon here sometimes.

01:01:49Right?

01:01:50Look, he better be better on the turf.

01:01:54He got a 47 buyer's speed figure.

01:01:57Ouch, I didn't realize that.

01:01:58Okay.

01:01:5947.

01:02:00Who does TD in Rising Stars?

01:02:02Hey, I don't make the TD in Rising Stars, obviously.

01:02:08You know, I didn't feel like spending three hours to go back down a rabbit hole to see if it was the slowest maiden special weight at Saratoga in the last 10 years or 20 years or 30 years.

01:02:22It might have been.

01:02:23It was a very slow race.

01:02:27So, look, I mean, it's an unbelievable story.

01:02:32In all aspects, Lady Eli, the name of the horse, Cherie, one of the best trainers in America, and her past connection with Lady Eli.

01:02:42But let's get this horse on the turf and see how he runs.

01:02:48And if he can't run any better on the turf, any faster on the turf than he ran when he broke his maiden, then, I don't know, that TD in Rising Star designation is not going to take him very far.

01:02:58Well, Randy, I'm going to throw you a softball, and you're not going to have to become the bad guy or the curmudgeon here because I know you and I both know Steve Kornacki very well.

01:03:07And the Jockey Club named him to be the keynote speaker at the Jockey Club Roundtable.

01:03:13And I think this was a brilliant pick.

01:03:15I'm not just saying this because I really know and like Steve, and I once was partners with him on a five-claimer at Parks who ran slower than your horse.

01:03:24You were just poor lame passing a couple weeks ago.

01:03:28But anyways, and the reason why I like that, and you can speak to this as much, if not more so than I do, because you work with him on these races.

01:03:35He's a fan.

01:03:37I mean, he is a super fan.

01:03:40He knows the game.

01:03:41He knows the business.

01:03:42He knows the broadcasting game.

01:03:44Obviously, he's a rising star in his own field.

01:03:46But I think you get him to the racetrack, and he lights up like a Christmas tree.

01:03:51He really knows what he's doing.

01:03:53But I hope he brings the fans' perspective to the roundtable and talks about how, you know, you can do better and what needs to be done for the fans.

01:04:02I haven't talked to him about this.

01:04:04I don't know what he's planning on saying.

01:04:05But it was a very good choice, Steve Kornacki.

01:04:08Oh, I totally agree.

01:04:09Just an awesome guy.

01:04:11Just, you know, unbelievably enthusiastic about the sport.

01:04:14He's very analytical, obviously.

01:04:17That's his job in politics, using all the, you know, all the data.

01:04:22He's very data-driven.

01:04:23I know one of his beliefs that he'll probably espouse at the roundtable is that all past performances in thoroughbred racing should be free for the fans.

01:04:35He thinks that's very important.

01:04:37And he thinks once you get those past performances in the hands of people like him that don't know that much about horse racing but love the analytical perspective of things, then you'll turn a lot of those people into fans when they get a chance to see all the data in front of them that can be taken in so many different ways.

01:04:53You know, just a story about Steve that just kind of illustrates what a fan he is and how enthusiastic he is.

01:05:01He, I'm sure he's in mourning right now over the loss of D. Wayne Lucas.

01:05:07He was the number, probably the number one super fan out there of Lucas.

01:05:11We talked about that when we did our Lucas podcast.

01:05:14Wayne had a lot of super fans.

01:05:16But Steve Kornacki, if not at the top, he had to be very near the top of that list.

01:05:20But he had never met him.

01:05:23And then at the Preakness Stakes two years ago, Wayne was there.

01:05:27And we orchestrated a sit-down off-camera just one morning between Steve and Wayne Lucas.

01:05:35And I went to Wayne on the backside and told him, you know, I don't think Wayne really knew who Steve Kornacki was, to be honest with you.

01:05:43I said, tomorrow morning, we're going to bring Kornacki over.

01:05:46And I think Laurie might have helped Wayne do a little research on Steve Kornacki.

01:05:50Because the next morning, Wayne was all in and knew exactly who Steve was and was all excited about it.

01:05:56And to watch Steve sit down next to Wayne in a chair outside the tack room at Pimlico in the Stakes Barn and talk to him for 30 minutes or 45 minutes and just start ticking off Wayne's best horses.

01:06:10And Wayne was kind of struggling that morning and he lit up like a Christmas tree and just start.

01:06:15It was wonderful.

01:06:17And Steve was so excited to be able to sit down next to his idol and talk about that.

01:06:23But I think it's an inspired choice by the Jockey Club as well.

01:06:27How do I get a ticket?

01:06:30You can have mine.

01:06:32I'd love to go.

01:06:33That sounds awesome.

01:06:35Yeah, it'll be on video, too.

01:06:36The Jockey Club will post it all on video.

01:06:39So you'll be able to watch.

01:06:41He's one of two keynote speakers, but it's going to be fun to hear him talk about the sport that he loves so much.

01:06:46Who's the other one?

01:06:47Do we know?

01:06:49I did know about an hour ago.

01:06:51And now I've been going down rabbit holes, and that's totally escaped me.

01:06:58So some sad news out of Canada last week.

01:07:01Patches O'Houlihan, the 2024 Horse of the Year in Canada, and a very big fan favorite.

01:07:09After winning the stakes race, the Thorn, I think it was the Highlander, oh yeah, the Highlander stakes, he suffered a soft tissue injury and had to be euthanized.

01:07:20And they put in the press release, he possessed outstanding heart and desire and was as honest as they come.

01:07:27This is like, you know, you have horses that, you know, okay, he's not going to win the Clips Award, and, you know, he's not going to win the Breeders' Cup Sprint.

01:07:34But you fall in love with them because they're so cool, and they're so, you know, tough and hard-knocking.

01:07:40And not to mention having a great name.

01:07:43Patches O'Houlihan was the coach for the Average Joe's team in dodgeball.

01:07:47Now, what makes the story even more remarkable is same trainer, same owner, campaigned a horse by the name of Pink Lloyd, who virtually had the exact same career, winning everything on the sprinting up in Canada.

01:08:01Neither one of these horses ever ran outside of Canada.

01:08:04They retired Pink Lloyd.

01:08:06He has a beautiful home on retirement, one of those retirement farms out in Ontario.

01:08:11But, yeah, you know, and Bob Tiller is a very, if you've never met him, he should take a chance to chat with him.

01:08:17Very nice guy, very knowledgeable.

01:08:19And I just feel, you know, you always feel horrible for people when this happens.

01:08:22But, you know, to lose the horse of the year and a fan favorite, that was, you know, not a good story.

01:08:28Oh, and Patches O'Houlihan won the Pink Lloyd Stakes last year.

01:08:34At Woodbine.

01:08:35You know, they handle both of those horses so carefully.

01:08:39Patches O'Houlihan, you said, 16 career starts, won 13 out of 16.

01:08:45Never left Woodbine.

01:08:47Never raced at any other track besides Woodbine.

01:08:50He ran on synthetic and he ran on turf.

01:08:52And really, his last race in the Highlander was just an illustration, an unfortunate illustration.

01:09:00But it was completely emblematic of what Patches O'Houlihan was all about.

01:09:04He set the early pace.

01:09:06He opened up early.

01:09:07When he got to about the 5-16th pole, he started trying to bear out.

01:09:14At the quarter pole, he was trying to bear out badly on the lead.

01:09:18And he was being challenged at that point.

01:09:20He was head and head.

01:09:21It was obvious that something was amiss with Patches O'Houlihan.

01:09:26And all the way down the stretch, he was bearing out, getting out a little further, a little further from the rail.

01:09:32Wouldn't run in a straight line, trying to get off his left side.

01:09:34Clearly, he wasn't the normal Patches O'Houlihan.

01:09:39And yet, he refused to lose.

01:09:43He wound up winning that race by a neck immediately after the race.

01:09:48And they hadn't even gotten to the turn yet.

01:09:50He was pulled up, had to be taken back in an ambulance.

01:09:54And he had suffered a severe suspensory injury, probably at the top of the stretch when he tried to bear out to begin with.

01:10:02The horse had to be in a lot of discomfort.

01:10:04And yet, he gutted it out and he won anyway.

01:10:08It's so unfortunate that, you know, that this happened.

01:10:12But what a way to go out showing the guts that made that horse a legend in Canada.

01:10:20Yeah, it went out a winner, like a true champion that he was.

01:10:23And that was a couple of weeks ago.

01:10:25So, they tried everything to try and save this horse.

01:10:28They just couldn't.

01:10:30But great name, great story, great trainer, great ownership group.

01:10:35And like some wise man once told me, no good horse has ever had a bad name.

01:10:40Like, think about Pink Floyd, Patches O'Houlihan.

01:10:43Think about the really good horses that we've had as horses of the year.

01:10:46No good horse has a bad name.

01:10:49Little E.T.

01:10:51Oh.

01:10:52Well, that wasn't that bad.

01:10:57All right.

01:11:00So, overseas, the sales action took place in Japan.

01:11:04And Zoe, you are a resident sales expert.

01:11:06What were the stories coming out of the big yearling sale in Japan last week?

01:11:11Yeah, well, it was actually, I think, Tuesday they sold the foals.

01:11:16And on Monday, they sold the yearlings.

01:11:18It was the JRHA Select Yearling and Foal Sale.

01:11:24If you follow Kenny McPhee on Twitter, you would have seen him and his wife and his daughter went over there.

01:11:29They were invited over there and just went through the whole process.

01:11:33They went and saw Swiss Skydiver and her foal.

01:11:36And just, it was an eye-opener to watch how they do the sales over there.

01:11:42So, I would encourage anyone to take a look at Kenny McPeak's Twitter and take a look at some of it.

01:11:47Or follow Emma Berry because she's been there throughout and wrote some really good articles.

01:11:52I wrote down some of the cliff notes just to give you guys a little bit of an idea.

01:11:57And these are just basically about the yearlings that were sold.

01:12:01They had 227 yearlings catalogued.

01:12:05They sold 225.

01:12:08Only two of them were RNA'd, which is huge.

01:12:11That's a 99% clearance.

01:12:14All those yearlings sold for $105.6 million, up 7.2%.

01:12:20There were 60 to 70 new buyers.

01:12:23Yoshida Farm, of course, we've heard a lot about them in the news.

01:12:25They had 40% of the yearlings sold, and rightly so, because they've bought every good mayor that we've ever had in North America.

01:12:34Kittisan Black, he's one of their new emerging stallions.

01:12:37He was responsible for the top two lots.

01:12:40They sold for $2.8 and $2.78 million.

01:12:43There were a total of 11 Kittisan Blacks sold for an average price of $1.5 million.

01:12:49And then Jon Stewart, you know, two days after pulling the upset with Excellent Truth in the grade one Diana, of course, he was over there and picked up a son of Kittisan Black, a filly, actually, out of Photocall.

01:13:04You might recall Photocall, originally trained by Graham Motion.

01:13:07She first made headlines when she made $3 million at the Keelan November sale.

01:13:12She was then sold four years later for $2.7 to Yoshida Farms.

01:13:19So she went over there, so he bought one of her foals to bring back over here stateside to try and bring some of this American blood over there.

01:13:28A half-brother to one of your favorite horses, sold forever young, sold to, of course, Yoshida Yahagi for $2 million.

01:13:35So hopefully we get to see him.

01:13:39The first yearling by Flightline sold anywhere in the world.

01:13:44That son of Selflessly, who was a grade two winner over here, sold for $2 million.

01:13:49Average price for the three Flightline yearlings, $1 million each.

01:13:53So we'll see some of them sold later this year.

01:13:57A Midnight Bisou foal sold last night for, I think, like $3.4 million.

01:14:03The fallout of her.

01:14:05So all of these wonderful mares that go over there, you can see why they're bringing so much more money.

01:14:11And another thing that Emma Berry put in her column was the transparency that they have over there that I'd like to see over here at some of the U.S. sales.

01:14:20The reserves, usually you're talking behind closed doors and trying to figure out what the reserve is for a horse.

01:14:27These are freely available along with the height, the weight, the girth, and the cannon bone length of each yearling sold is available on the website.

01:14:38So all this information is readily available for you.

01:14:43And the inspection process is second to none.

01:14:46I thought it was just really intriguing.

01:14:49Like, I would love to go over there and just do what Kenny McPeak did.

01:14:52Obviously, I'm not a Kentucky Derby and Oaks trainer, so I'm not going to get invited.

01:14:56But just go and have a look at it.

01:14:58I am fascinated.

01:15:00Why don't we do a show on the road from Japan?

01:15:03Let's do it.

01:15:04Let's go.

01:15:05Land of the rising thoroughbreds.

01:15:08Right?