- 5 months ago
Animal welfare lobbyist Chris Heyde joins this week's TDN Writers' Room to discuss the state of aftercare and advocates for passage of the SAFE Act, which would place a ban on the slaughter trade within the United States and stop the export of horses to foreign slaughterhouses.
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AnimalsTranscript
00:00Welcome to another edition of the
00:29TDN Writer's Room Podcast. My name is Bill Finley. I am a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily
00:34News. My name is Randy Moss. I work for NBC Sports and for the Byerspeed Figure team. It's
00:41one of my favorite times of the year. Football season's starting, the horse racing's kicking
00:46into high gear, getting ready for the Breeders' Cup. I'm in three fantasy football leagues.
00:51Unfortunately, I turned in one of the worst performances in fantasy history last weekend.
00:55Oh, and three, for starters. That's not good. And you're sitting in a random hotel room on a bed
01:02all on your own. Where are you? I am in your... Well, what would normally be your neck of the
01:10woods, Zoe? I'm in Los Angeles, while you look like you're at a sales pavilion. I am. I'm at
01:15Keeneland. So, Kevin here with First TV. We kicked off last night at Keeneland, and we'll continue
01:21throughout the sale. And it was a pretty good night last night for the Keeneland sale, opening night.
01:27Yeah, we'll be talking more about the sale coming up in another segment. But guys, let's first start
01:32with the weekend and the closing weekend at Del Mar. And the two-year-olds now are fully in action.
01:37We'll start with the Del Mar debutante. Strange outcome. Bob Baffert wins the race for his wife,
01:44Jill Baffert, with a horse that nobody thought could win. Bottle of Rouge. It was nine to one with
01:50Mike Smith aboard. The big disappointment was Explorer, who was second at three to five,
01:55coming off a smashing debut. Randy, I don't think Explorer really had any excuses.
02:00And I don't know what this means for the two-year-old fillies in California.
02:04Yeah, I don't either, Bill. I mean, look, I was a big fan of Himika, the way she won the
02:10Sorrento at Del Mar. But you could tell from the betting what the pecking order was in the Baffert
02:16Barn. Explorer, who had been a hugely impressive debut winner, was three to five. Himika was five
02:23to two. And as you pointed out, Bottle of Rouge was basically ignored at odds of nine to one. I mean,
02:30Bottle of Rouge is out of a dam that was a horrible racehorse. After her career, she was sold for breeding
02:39purposes. I think she RNA'd maybe for $14,000 or something like that. I mean, the pedigree is
02:46really nothing that's extra special. They bought her for $100,000, Jill Baffert, Bob Baffert. But you
02:52know how good Bob is at picking out these bargains and training them very well. And Bottle of Rouge is
03:01now arguably, I guess, the number one contender among fillies in California.
03:07Yeah. Congrats to Jill. Actually, I should send her a text with Bottle of Rouge beating the rest of
03:12Bob's at nine to one. And Jill explicitly told Bob that she had to have Mike Smith on her horse. So
03:19delighted Bottle of Rouge, Vino Rosso, grade one winner. Turn the table on Himika. I think Himika
03:25is going to be better going two turns. I'm not completely throwing her out of the window because
03:30she's by Carlin. I remember her at the two-year-old. She's going to love every bit of two turns. So for
03:36whatever reason, she didn't run her race. I am not tossing her out just yet.
03:42All right. So let's turn our attention to the males that ended up the meet at Del Mar
03:46with a Del Mar Futurity. Gee, what a surprise. Bob Baffert won the race for the 19th time.
03:53So the number is just unbelievable. But again, I'm not sure this is what everybody expected.
03:58Brandt was the $3 million horse. Ran off the screen last time out. Heavy favorite. Did come back and win.
04:06But I don't think he was nearly as impressive as he was in his maiden win. And also his buyer
04:11ran. He dipped from a 101 to a 91. So again, I mean, that doesn't mean he can't bounce back and
04:17run on the Breeders' Cup Juvenile and run a gangbuster race. But I think more was, you know,
04:24when the bar is set so high and the horse only wins by a length and only gets a 91, you're like,
04:31it was a different kind of race for him. He stalked in his debut and settled very nicely and drew off
04:39and won. He had an inside draw on the Del Mar Futurity and Flavian Pratt just decided to go on
04:44with it. Set a pretty quick pace. We talked about his debut win. He's a son of Gunrunner. His action is
04:52not very good at all. But he, look, he held off Desert Gate, another Baffert horse who made a nice
04:59run at him at the top of the stretch after stumbling pretty badly at the start. So Desert Gate had a bit
05:04of an excuse. And he was holding him safe, you know, all the way down the wire. That's his seven
05:11furlongs, right? So we're going to learn a lot more about these horses when they come back and run
05:18a mile and a sixteenth, which we assume Brandt is going to do probably in the American Pharaoh
05:23stakes coming up. And we'll see Desert Gate probably in there as well. And who knows what else Baffert
05:29might have in there at that point? I just can't wrap my head around it. 19, 19 Del Mar
05:37Futurities. And people will be like, well, he gets all the best horses. But just think about it. If you
05:42think about, you know, the big groups that buy him horses now, we're talking like 19 years ago and
05:48more. He didn't have those big groups buying him all those horses back then to win 19. It's,
05:55it's absolutely incredible. I'm feeling quite happy with my side bet with Randy Brandt versus Ted
06:03Noffy right now. You should, you should. Because Randy took Brandt and I argued, I love Ted Noffy
06:10more on him just a little bit later. Um, Brandt, you know, he's quick. I don't know how he's going
06:16to fare around two turns. He's bred for his bike on runner. He's not an overly massive horse if you
06:22see him in person. Um, so we'll have to wait and see, but yeah, I, I watched that race and I was like,
06:28ah, shall I text Randy right now? I feel like I'm looking pretty good with my maiden winner.
06:35Anyway. Yeah. And since last week, Ted Noffy's buyer has been upgraded. It was actually pretty
06:41quickly. Yeah. From 92 to 98. So, uh, you know, so Ted Noffy is right now, we'll, we'll talk a little
06:47bit more about the entire two-year-old division a little bit later, but so 19 Del Mar Futurities
06:53for Baffert, but 12 Del Mar debutantes. Yeah. 31 wins in those two signature races at Del Mar.
07:00And you know, Zoe and I and Bill go way back to when nobody knew who Bob Baffert was really
07:05outside the state of California. I remember when he almost won the Kentucky Derby with
07:10Cabanier and he thought, yeah, man, I may never be back. And Cabanier was a California bred,
07:16very modest. And he comes back the next year, silver charm, very modest. The next year,
07:22real quiet, again, a very modest pedigree and purchase price. And we all said back then,
07:28can you imagine what would happen if Bob Baffert were able to get his hands on these,
07:33you know, million dollar or high priced yearlings. And now we're seeing the results of what happens
07:38when Baffert gets his hands on those kinds of horses. Yeah. Now, uh, just for future reference,
07:44can he win the Kentucky Derby? Of course he can, but of Baffert's 19 winners, well, actually it would
07:49be the 18 because this year doesn't count. Only two have won the Kentucky Derby. So the batting
07:54average for this is, uh, not great. American Pharaoh in 2014 and silver charm in 1996 were the
08:02two that came through for him. But, um, these horses, you know, they get a little, they, they're
08:06precocious and then we don't always know if they're going to train on and, you know, really blossom as
08:12a three-year-old. So, um, so you are, let's see, you're our, uh, California expert, our breeding
08:19expert, our jump racing expert, and I'm probably forgetting about five other things. I want to
08:25question that because I don't know the answer to this and you will, you see, um, the action on the,
08:32the, the horse brand. It's not good. How did this horse sell for so much money when, you know,
08:38he's out there paddling along like that? Well, if you look at the camera angle at OBS where he sold,
08:46uh, there is no head on. You'll have people that stand on the turn and they will have seen that
08:51action as he comes around. It's inside, isn't it? As he comes around the turn. So the people on the
08:56backside are privy to it. He's a beautiful mover. You watch him walk. He walks through everything.
09:01He, he just paddles. I mean, look at Vakoma. It didn't stop him, did it?
09:05Hmm. And Sierra Leone. Sierra Leone has action almost as bad, if not worse.
09:09As long as horses move through it, there's a certain amount you can live with. And yes,
09:14that is, that is exaggerated, but you know, he's two for two. I can't argue with that.
09:20No, I guess it's hard. It's hard to do that. So the, uh, Del Mar mate concluded they had some
09:25good figures. They were ups. Total, uh, uh, total handle was up 6.7%. Average handle was up 17.26%
09:34versus 16.8. Excuse me. The average daily handle was 17.26 million versus 16.8 million
09:42last year. And it's kind of funny because Saratoga put out their numbers at the end of the meeting and
09:48it was not far from a disaster, but they were down a tick and just about everything. Well,
09:53Del Mar was up and everything. And, you know, look, everybody would love to have Saratoga's numbers.
09:57I'm just wondering if the Saratoga oversaturated things this year with the, uh, you know, the
10:03Belmont at Saratoga, the July 4th at Saratoga, you know, a lot of people that would have come
10:08for the July 4th weekend may not have come back. You know, they have made one trip a year to
10:12Saratoga. I do hope that they go back to the 40 days, regular 40 day meet as soon as possible.
10:18The new Belmont is open, but that remains to be seen. But Zoe is our California expert and, uh,
10:25a very good meet for Del Mar. A super meet safety wise as well. They had 8.7, uh, starters per race
10:34compared to 8.5 last year. It was pretty much on par with last year at Del Mar. Uh, Hernandez
10:42leading rider with 45, Bob Baffert leading trainer, uh, Lee Berosio, who we had on this
10:47show a few weeks ago was the leading owner with his Mi Familia stables. So congrats to him.
10:54A 355 million total handle. Um, it was about comparable to last year at Del Mar and the sun
11:02always shines as far as Saratoga is concerned. It really has, you hit the nail on the head.
11:08It's been saturated. It's basically three opening weekends and opening weekend. We did have a little
11:14bit of rain and you just didn't have the people there. It didn't quite have the same vibe for
11:19opening weekend that it's had in years past with the 4th of July and the Belmont Stakes Festival.
11:25The weather cooperated, uh, only 33 races off the turf compared with 45 last year at Saratoga
11:33and 420 races compared to 421. So I think side by side, they both places actually had pretty good
11:42meets, but Saratoga kind of lost a little bit of its oomph as far as I'm concerned with having the
11:484th of July festival there. Yeah. Saratoga is still weather dependent, especially compared to
11:54Del Mar. Um, let's talk, I'm just going to talk about Del Mar here, right? Um, I love Del Mar.
12:01I, if, if, if, if I could move there tomorrow, I would move to Del Mar and a horse racing or not,
12:08but racetracks are always going to spend the numbers to put their best foot forward. Okay.
12:18And when Del Mar came out with their total handle number and they had a good meet, look,
12:23they had a good meet. They included simulcast betting on other racetracks, not just Del Mar,
12:31racetracks. So in other words, they included money bet at Del Mar, for example, on Saratoga.
12:39Saratoga counts money bet at Del Mar on Saratoga. So that money's counted twice. I've always felt
12:45the best way to get an accurate snapshot of how a racetrack is doing in, in handle is to focus on
12:54the money bet on their races only. Okay. So the money bet at Del Mar on Del Mar races was actually
13:03down a tick from 2024. It was down like 1.4%. Attendance was up by 3%, but the betting actually
13:14on Del Mar races took a very slight downward tick from 2024. The big picture in Southern California
13:24is really, in my opinion, not a lot better than it was. Because when you look at the, at the handle
13:31on Del Mar races in 2025, okay, and you compare it to 2022, which was a good year for Del Mar, it's down
13:3920%. So, you know, there are still obviously concerns in Southern California. Field size kicked
13:47up just a bit, but was still significantly below 2022. They're kind of spinning it as, you know,
13:56this is an example of how the single circuit in California, Northern California is not running
14:02anymore, you know, is a great benefit. You know, maybe that helped. I don't know. But, you know,
14:10Del Mar had a good meet, but just on Del Mar races, they were down a little bit and not up.
14:16Randy, there's another thing I'd like to bring up out, bring up about this, whether it's Del Mar,
14:21Saratoga, Fairmont Park, Finger Lakes, or whatever, when they put out these end of the
14:26year handle releases, I wonder how much the numbers are affected simply by the CAW players.
14:32Did the CAW players bet less at Saratoga this year? Did they bet more at Del Mar? If they're
14:38making up 30%, an estimated 30% of the handle, and no track in the world will tell us whether
14:44they were betting more or less, sometimes these figures, I think, could be very misleading.
14:49Oh, it's just, it's such a mess right now to try to figure out and attracts betting totals. You know,
14:59what's reality and what's not, what, you know, what is affecting this, not affecting that. And CAW is
15:07obviously a big part of that. I mean, there was a spin when Del Mar put out the press release that
15:12said their betting was up, right? All betting, including simulcast betting, including dark day
15:18betting on races other than Del Mar. There was a spin that was like, oh, look, Del Mar actually
15:25changed their CAW policy after the meeting had started and cut off the CAW players at two minutes
15:32to post from betting to win on Del Mar races, which was widely applauded and understandably so.
15:37But there was a spin that, hey, look, they were still up. Well, they were down slightly.
15:4211.6 million average daily handle on Del Mar races last year, 11.4 million on Del Mar races this year.
15:51Well, that's also because the CAW guys can still bet in every other pool. They'll just take their
15:56money from the wind pool and bet in triples or like fives or exact. So I'm sure their total handle
16:02isn't necessarily affected that much by being essentially kicked out of the wind pool. But having
16:07said that, I do applaud Del Mar and Naira for at least making, so you don't have that horse
16:12go into the gate at five to one, hit the eighth hole at eight to five and cross the wire at six
16:17to five, which is, you know, everybody wants to pull their hair out. So, but, but good meets at
16:22both places, um, you know, good weather, good, great racing. And, uh, you know, congratulations to
16:28both tracks for their 200, 2025 meets. And I would think for the most part, fairly successful.
16:36Do want to remind you that the TDN writers room is brought to you by Keeneland. And this is exactly
16:41where I am right now. Now Keeneland's annual September sale started off with an absolute
16:46bang on Monday evening. We're taping this on Tuesday morning before what is expected to be
16:52another blockbuster session, but here's what Monday produced. All right. This was the first session
16:58led by a $3.3 million gun runner cult. Keeneland saw a parade, no more than 15 seven figure yearlings
17:06through the ring. The average of six, 653,208 was the highest ever at a September sale. The buyback rate
17:16was a very respectable 20%. And the median, this is the one that counts was a whopping 537,000
17:23up from 475 for the total sale, but 450 for the opening session last year. The atmosphere was
17:32electric and there is more to come. We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
17:38It all comes down to this. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, the moment that defines the year
17:44when the world's most influential buyers gather and every decision, every bid, every opportunity
17:52shapes the future at a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together and where futures
17:59are forged because every moment matters at the world's yearling sale, Keeneland, September.
18:08This week's fastest source of the week is always brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
18:13We've talked a lot about the red hot constitution and he continues to produce million dollar results
18:19such as Keeneland hip 160 on Monday, a cold bread by Fred Hertrick, bought by Wesley Ward, sold
18:27by tailor-made sales. Nice looking one there. Constitution's been a top five general sire in both 2024 and
18:352025. And of course, he's the sire of the top older horse and future stallion, Mindframe. Who knows how good
18:42Mindframe could be? If he can keep the jockey on his back. Now for the fastest horse of the week,
18:47let's take you back one year ago. The Polynesian stakes at Laurel 2024. Five horses were entered in
18:53that one mile race. Post time, an overwhelming favorite, less than one to five odds. He wins the
18:59race by 11 and a half lengths. Now go back Sunday, this past Sunday, the Polynesian stakes. Five horses were
19:06entered. Two were scratched. Three horse field. Okay. Post time, one to 20. He wins by 17 with the
19:16buyer speed figure of 103, making him our fastest horse of the week. We know how dominant post time
19:21has been at Laurel. He's 10 for 10 lifetime at the track. He's seven for seven in stakes races.
19:26He is a two-time graded stakes winner, but he's really no more for the graded stakes that he didn't
19:30win. He was second in the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile, second in the Met Mile, third in the Whitney,
19:36third in the Cigar Mile. Quite the runner. Post time owned by Hillwood Stable, trained by Brittany
19:41Russell, and he is our fastest horse of the week. Welcome in now to Gainesway Guest of the Week,
19:52and it's Chris Hyde from Blue Marble Strategies. Chris, before I go any further, what do you do?
19:58Tell us your job. What is your job every day to make horse racing a better game and to protect
20:05the horses that come off the track? Well, thank you, Bill. I appreciate it. Yeah,
20:10I've been doing this for a long time. I actually lobby Congress on animal protection laws,
20:16and I've done that for, I think, coming up on 25 years this year. I first started, and horses were
20:22actually my first issue when I came to Washington, D.C. Really, none of the animal groups were
20:28focused on horses, horse welfare, you know, anything like that. Nobody was really focused on
20:34it. That's kind of the amazing thing, you know, that nobody was paying attention. So I kind of
20:38fit in, and I've made a career mostly out of working on horses, trying to pass legislation such
20:44as ending horse slaughter, which I know we'll talk about, protecting wild horses, ending horse soaring,
20:50double-deck trailers for horses. So I didn't plan on making my career horses, but that's the direction
20:56that's gone now 25 years later. Well, that's quite an overview. Before we go any further,
21:03is there a nice little dog we need to take a quick look at in the background?
21:07That's just because you're not only a horse advocate, you're also a dog advocate. And who is
21:14that? That's Boudicca. Hi, Boudicca. Boudicca's very cute. So she's named after a British queen.
21:23Oh, Boudicca. I like that. Queen Boudicca. Yeah, she beat the Romans, actually, and burned London to
21:29the ground as she was chasing the Romans. Unfortunately, the Romans always won in the end,
21:35for the most part. She disappeared from history soon afterwards, but impressive.
21:41We'll have to look that up. All right. So you just gave us a quick overview of what you've been doing
21:47for the last 25 years. What can we do now to try and alleviate the problems that have been persisting?
21:55Well, it really is amazing dealing with horse slaughter. And again, that's kind of, you know,
22:00I wrote an article recently that was published here and got a great deal of attention because
22:06nobody was paying attention to the horses. And so we come in and do this. And again, I realized that
22:11horses were being slaughtered. And I grew up in the Midwest. I grew up in Ohio. I never thought that
22:15would exist. You know, you hear about it, going to the glue factory, things like that.
22:19And so early on in 2001, I decided to go in a slaughterhouse myself and see what was going on
22:28with a veterinarian up in Illinois, DeKalb, Illinois, which was one of the last three that
22:32were operating. And so, you know, kind of saw that. And we've seen all these things improve
22:37and industry conditions have improved. And people are talking about it, you know, after care within
22:42the racing industry. So it's kind of been a long process. While we haven't ended slaughter for human
22:47consumption, you know, we've seen a lot of improvements. And I think that's, you know,
22:50that's a very positive thing, despite the frustration of 24 years now of not being able
22:57to pass the bill to ban slaughter. So that's the next question, Chris. Things have definitely
23:03gotten better. Right now, horses are not slaughtered in the United States because of the requirement the
23:09USDA inspector has to be there. Nobody's paying for that. So we've solved that problem. But we have not
23:15solved the problem of horses going, being bought at these slaughter sales and going to Canada and
23:21Mexico. You talked about the SAFE Act, which basically would ban all horse slaughter in the
23:26United States, the transportation of horse slaughter in the United States. Tell us where that bill stands
23:31and how frustrated are you that you really haven't, I shouldn't say you haven't made a lot of headway
23:37because I don't know that for a fact. But today we sit here after all these years and we still
23:43haven't passed it. Yeah, it is frustrating because we have done well. I mean, we've passed it out of
23:48the House of Representatives several times. Even in the last Congress, we moved it out of there. It's
23:54just kind of getting all of those parts lined up is to get it out of the House and get it out of the
23:59Senate. Because if you've ever watched the old schoolhouse rock, they always knew it. You know,
24:03the Senate was set up to be a lot slower. It's where things, you know, kind of get bogged down.
24:08They're a little bit more deliberative. Unfortunately, we've been caught up with that,
24:12even though the bills always enjoyed strong. So, and I say bill, like there's been several
24:16over this course, you know, that we've tried different committees, different bills, different
24:21avenues to get this done. And they've always had support. It's just the frustration is with animal
24:27issues. Everybody likes them. Everybody supports them. But when it comes down to that last thing,
24:33are you going to take the tax break, you know, commitment or are you going to try to ban
24:38horse slaughter? And unfortunately, you know, horses, most animal issues kind of get up in that
24:43we like them, but there's other priorities to do. And that's, that's what we're trying to change
24:49right now. I think we've seen, you know, with, with that article, we've seen a big surge of interest,
24:54you know, not just within the industry organizations, which have been great, but some individual owners
24:59who can kind of step up and, you know, really make that. I can't get direct members to meetings
25:04with members. I mean, that takes me a lot of effort, but you never know. What if some major
25:08horse owner, you know, is having dinner with Senator McConnell tomorrow?
25:13So if anyone's listening, this podcast, you know, we have a wide range of people that actually do
25:19tune in and listen, what can they do to try and help this problem? Like what needs to be done? Say,
25:27you know, if the head of Kulmar is listening to this, Spenfriff, like who do they contact? How can we get
25:33this pushed along? Yeah, we've always done great with emails and action alerts. The activist community
25:39is just, you know, they overwhelm the Hill in support for this, but it's that top level, you
25:44know, and I always mention it. Anytime I ever talk or write articles, I mentioned an old thoroughbred
25:48owner, John Hettinger, who was so, yes, he could pick up the phone and he would get members of Congress
25:53on the phone, or he would get other major business leaders, you know, to get on the phone and tell them
25:59that this is a priority. And that's really what we need. We really haven't kind of had that
26:02leadership since John passed away of the ability to move it because you're going to get politicians
26:07will listen to business owners and business leaders. And that's really what we need is
26:13because it's not good for the racing industry. We've always tried to get that point across.
26:17This is so easy. I mean, because really this is not what owners want. You get some, you know,
26:23I mean, you're always going to get those that are on the bottom. But I would say 99% don't want this
26:28happening to their horse, but they've got to speak up and make that contact. So that's really
26:33what we're trying to do is to get that top tier, you know, business leader to join us.
26:39So do we need like a Mike Rapoli who brought DeSantis to the Ocala Breeders sale when decoupling
26:45was on the cusp? We need something like that to happen.
26:50Yeah, we need that kind of that access, somebody that, you know, that they'll show up for,
26:53you know, or they'll listen to because they have business interests. And that's not a bad thing. I mean,
26:58it happens, you know, across the board. It's how they're impacting, you know, the business
27:02of racing. And that's, you know, the hope is that we need to get somebody like that to say,
27:06come on, you know, we've got all these negativities and these image things that we're
27:09working on. And there have been, again, great changes. And this is the easiest one to get off
27:13the table. You know, because it's, you know, I mean, when we started this, the excuse, everybody
27:19would cry crocodile tears and, oh my God, there's 400,000 horses. What are you going to do with them
27:24all? You know, and then two years later, oh, there's 200,000 horses. What are you going to do
27:28with them all? You know, now there's around 20, a little under 20,000. Oh my God, what are you
27:33going to do with them all? We can deal with it. It's just kind of getting that commitment
27:38has been the difficult part. Chris, I like that. I'm glad you brought that up because
27:43we heard, you know, from the infancy of this thing, these doom and gloom stories that these
27:49poor horses would be walking down the street neglected and nobody would be feeding them,
27:54et cetera. Obviously that's not happening. The, the, the, the amount of horses you're talking
27:59about at 400,000, 200,000, how has the equine world, the horse racing world absorbed these horses?
28:08How are they, how have they avoided having this doomsday scenario happen?
28:13Well, I think slaughter, first of all, we always try to remind people it's a demand driven industry.
28:17It's not doing a service for the horse industry. You know, we always felt early on for,
28:21you know, people that misbreed or overbreed. Slaughter could be a great dumping ground,
28:26you know, because, okay, well, you've, you've bred a bunch and only a couple are good. Just dump the
28:29rest off. You know, so you see that shrinking and people paying attention because these are good
28:34horses. I mean, this is, you know, people have to remember because the opponents would always make
28:39the excuse, well, what are we going to do with our old disease, sick horses? This is a meat industry.
28:45You know, it's not like, oh gosh, you know, here's our cancer tumor ridden, you know, piece of steak
28:49we've got for you. They want horses that can be fattened up and sold for slaughter. So those horses
28:55can easily go into new homes. If it's ultimately an issue, euthanize them, you know, but do it
29:02humanely, do it. 99% of horse owners do it right. You know, they, you know, they'll take their horse
29:08out and euthanize them, bury them on the property, depending on that. So there's, there, it was always
29:13just a red herring because it's a great argument. It's a great way to scare people. You know, I mean,
29:20I remember our sponsor in Illinois when we banned it in 2007, the state, he was like, my God, you'd
29:26think I'm driving down from Chicago to Springfield and horses would be bouncing off the hood of my
29:30cars if I'd listened to everybody because I saw a lot of cows, but you know, I didn't see any horses.
29:36So it's, you know, there isn't an argument put up for this that's justifiable, you know.
29:44And Chris, um, the cynic in me says the way to get things accomplished in Washington is to pay
29:51campaign contributions, donate money to the politicians. Um, I, God bless Mike Rapoli for
29:58doing what he did with Gulfstream, but I do believe he made a very substantial contribution to Ron DeSantis
30:04to help get this done. Um, am I being too cynical? Do you guys not have the funding to, to really,
30:11you know, make your case told in the right, uh, right areas? You know, what, what about that whole,
30:16you know, money talks? What about that whole issue? Yeah, no, you're right. It does. It does make a
30:21deal of difference to be able to go to these, not only because you're paying to get in your, you get
30:26five, 10 minutes directly with that legislator, you know, often that you get a chance to talk kind of
30:32unfiltered and, and, and, and raise these issues to them. And I do, we actually had a PAC. I created
30:37a PAC not too long ago, the national horse protection PAC. I just couldn't raise enough
30:41money to keep it going. Uh, because you have to pay, you know, an accountant to kind of manage it.
30:48Um, but I'd love to get that going back again. Um, and I've had donors that will pay,
30:52you know, for an event and then I'll get to go and represent them, you know, but again,
30:57that's the best chance as you get to where I can't get to a member, like somebody might be able to,
31:01you know, a big business person, I can go to a fundraiser and get a chance to talk to them.
31:07So if you could sit down with the jockey club, one-on-one with the jockey club, what,
31:12what would you tell them that needs to be done that they could help you with?
31:17Yeah. I mean, they've been great. I think, you know, we, we, we do a letter with them with all
31:20the industry groups that we send around with it, but I, you know, and I understand they have other
31:24priorities as well. But, you know, a lot to my point with all of us is that this is out of all
31:30the monumental issues that maybe racing wants to deal with, or just agricultural horses, you know,
31:36or even HISA that went through, this is extremely easy because we haven't been even doing it in the
31:40United States, slaughtering horses for over 20 years. So I think it's just sitting down with them
31:46just to say, you know, we all need to come together. That's often our problem is that we're all spread out.
31:51And if we would all kind of come in and focus, you know, I mean, Hedinger always used to say to me,
31:56there's many other things I want to do, but I got to get slaughter off the table. And then I can give
32:01more of that money to rescues, or then I can give this assets to that. But if you've got to pay for
32:06lobbyists and you've got to do this and you've got to run ads, I mean, that's a drain on resources that
32:11even though it's my career, I'd rather it end. I'm real tired of this issue. You know, I'd love to retire and
32:19just go hang out in a barn somewhere. I don't ride, but I'd love to hang out with, you know,
32:22in a barn somewhere doing these things. But, you know, so that's why I said it is doable.
32:28It's just kind of getting everybody pointed in the right direction.
32:31Chris, one of these things that doesn't bring out a lot of attention is most people may not know this,
32:36but in the countries where the society approves of or does not turn its back on people eating
32:44horses, they all have rules that they cannot eat any horses or cannot slaughter horses that have
32:50had any drugs in them. Now, 100% of all racehorses at one point in time have had drugs in their system,
32:58anywhere from Butte to God only knows what. Do they just look the other way when this happens?
33:04And is this somewhat dangerous for people in places like Japan to be eating this stuff?
33:10No, you're absolutely, that's, that's the one issue that's baffled me, you know,
33:14because we have tried food safety on this, you know, in the past. And that was one of the bills
33:18that we had. I think the EU has cracked down on it a little bit more. They've gotten more restrictive,
33:24certainly coming through, you know, horses going through Canada, but I don't think they've
33:28completely eliminated, you know, as I've said, and I think your point was, we're the only horse in this
33:34country that hasn't been filled with illegal drugs and legal for the use in horses. I'm being polite,
33:40I'm sticking with those we know, you know, and, and, and, and, and, you know, it's probably a wild
33:45horse. But even those, if they've come off the range, they've been given treatments, dewormers,
33:51and issues like that, because, you know, just entering the system. So even those would be prohibited.
33:56But there is a lot of overlooking of the drugging issue. I mean, I remember I had a senator years
34:04ago, he's like, who cares? We don't need it. And I'm like, that's the, he's no longer what he's
34:09since passed away. So that may, that may explain things. But yeah, the drugging issue, it is
34:15frustrating that we've not been able to get that because, you know, as you said, you could get
34:18mute as a one year old, never have it again, and be sent to slaughter at 30. And that should be by US law
34:25illegal to enter the food chain, period. And that's true anywhere else in the, certainly in the EU
34:31for doing that. But getting it to enforce, that's, that's very difficult.
34:37So Chris, what's the bottom line here? How do we get this into the end zone?
34:42I, you know, I was wrong the other day when somebody asked me opponents. I mean, we, we really
34:47don't have any lobbying opponents to it. You get some kind of, you know, occasionally the cattlemen,
34:52you know, will say they just don't like it. Unfortunately, the tribes, we've got,
34:55a couple of Native American tribes up in the Northwest want to keep slaughter going.
35:02But I think it's important to remind anybody that's listening to it, they're not speaking
35:05for even a majority of the tribes in the United States. They're only speaking for a few,
35:10and they always couch it, well, the tribes don't, you know, want to ban slaughter.
35:15So I think that's something we have to get over, you know, and, and, and build support with, from
35:20tribal leaders to help, you know, post slaughter. But it's just getting together. You know, it's just,
35:27again, focusing on, you know, there are ways to move the bill in Congress. We just have to kind
35:33of get there. They have to do it in a vehicle. I guess I should back up a little bit. We're never
35:36going to pass the standalone, the SAFE Act, just simply because they're not moving individual bills
35:42very much, except for major sweeping policy things. But we can attach it to something,
35:49something that has to move, you know, like the farm bill, which is really a lot of the intention
35:53with this has been, it was rewritten to ban or to amend the cat and dog language that was in the
35:59farm bill from five years ago. So you can't ship, transport, possess, consume cat and dog meat for
36:04human consumption. We're just adding an equine into that. So we're still trying to get it into the
36:10farm bill. But, you know, again, we're having to deal with the ag industry, you know, and get around
36:16them. But I think with big leaders, this is something we could get, oops, sorry, we could
36:22easily get done, you know, and attaching it on something. But we just have to have the leaders step
36:27up. All right, so I got to find someone to pay off then. That's, that's my goal for this afternoon.
36:36That's good. That's good. Anything, anything you need, let me know.
36:38But yeah, I mean, you know, it does help. And I think it's just making that contact because a
36:44lot of these members might not even know this exists. We often get that, you know, I mean,
36:49a lot of staff, you know, they hear from us, they get our letters and, you know, the boss may get how
36:53many people called, you know, 52 people called or, you know, whatever emails, that kind of thing,
36:58make it a summary. But, you know, there aren't many town hall meetings right now. If you watch the
37:03news, members aren't doing those. But, you know, if you're run into your member of Congress,
37:08talk to them about this. They need to hear personally that this has not ended. It's not
37:13good for the horse industry. This is a multi-billion dollar a year industry. Why are we defending horse
37:19slaughter? For any industry, that's it. You know, the very first group that endorsed this was a Utah
37:24Quarter Horse Association, my bill way back. That changed after the American Quarter Horse Association
37:30found out that they endorsed it. They conveniently pulled their endorsement. But, you know, I think
37:36it's just getting all of those people just really to zero in right now instead of spreading all over
37:40the place. And Chris, you brought up the quarter horses. What kind of cooperation are you getting
37:47from other breeds? I mean, you're right. The thoroughbred industry has done a very good job
37:52taking these numbers way down. I wish they could be to zero, but they've gone way down. How about
37:57quarter horses and standard breds? You mentioned that the quarter horse people are standing in your
38:02way. What about the other breeds? Yeah, the standard bred industry has been good. They, you know,
38:07they've stepped up. They've got a retirement program. They've got one of the largest farms,
38:12Hanover Shoe Farm. And, you know, I know that one of their owners has been very outspoken over the
38:18years on ending slaughter and improving conditions and all of those things. So it really just kind of,
38:23and I don't even always, I don't even think it's uniform within the Quarter Horse Association.
38:26I remember years ago, I had a, you know, a board member. He goes, I'm sorry,
38:30we're not uniform on this, but we couldn't, you know, come out and endorse the bill,
38:33you know, in that. And so, you know, I think it's just continued to get to these organizations
38:38and breed specific groups, you know, to have them step up because it's just, it's a negative on
38:44everybody. I'm looking for someone to pay off right now. Where's Rapoli? I need Rapoli and
38:52Jon Stewart, obviously. Lock them in a room with horse slaughter.
38:56I tell you, that's why I'm, I'm always fine. If I can unleash anybody on this thing to get it done,
39:01I have no ownership to this anymore. I just want it over with.
39:05Yeah.
39:05You know, I mean, I had a lot of emails after that article with great ideas.
39:09Good.
39:10Very good.
39:11That's a great idea.
39:12We need to get it rolling.
39:13Keep up the good work. Let's hope that it won't be too much longer before the SAFE Act can
39:19become a law. And just like you said, I mean, why would anybody be against this? It's just
39:24mind boggling, but you're doing a great job. Keep up the good work. And thanks for being our
39:29Gainsway Guest of the Week.
39:31Thank you. Thank you for having me.
39:33Thanks, Chris.
39:33Our guest of the week, Chris Hyde, brought to you by Gainsway. Gainsway, the home of the
39:39Stallion Seize the Gray. One year ago this week, Seize the Gray won the $1 million Pennsylvania
39:45Derby. His second grade one stakes that stamped him as the leading earning son of Arrowgate and,
39:51of course, earned him a spot in Gainsway's Stallion roster. Seize the Gray also won the
39:56Preakness. And in his career, he defeated two classic winners in Mystic Dan, the Derby winner
40:01and Belmont winner, Dornick. Seize the Gray stands at Gainsway Farm for a fee of $30,000.
40:08Gainsway, power, fashion, performance.
40:18Seize the Gray wins convincingly.
40:22Seize the Gray. He's going to seize the day in the Pennsylvania Derby.
40:27Seize the Gray. He's still there. Seize the Gray wins the Preakness.
40:42Well, Zoe, in your commercial for Keeneland, you pretty much told us the entire story of
40:47what a great day it was, opening day. The average, as you said, was 653,208. The highest ever on a
40:56Keeneland September sale. The leading price was $3.3 million on a gun runner bought by Coolmore and
41:03Peter Brandt. But I want to get to, you mentioned them a little bit. This is, these are the first
41:08flight line yearlings to go through the ring. We all know what kind of race horse he is. We all know
41:13how well, how much people were looking forward to his offspring selling and then racing next year.
41:19What was the general take on flight line?
41:21They're very popular and they're going to be expensive because that, uh, Lane Sand has done
41:26a great job, you know, of not breeding him to 300 mares. So anytime there's less of something,
41:33everybody wants more of it, right? That's how, that's how it goes. The flight lines are beautiful.
41:38Kitty Days Warrendale consignment sold one, uh, yesterday afternoon for 1.6 million. He was a
41:44gorgeous looking horse. They're very athletic, kind of stand over a lot of ground. One thing that
41:48surprised me, there's quite a few flaxen manes and tails here with the flight lines, which was
41:52a little bit of a shock. Usually you're going to get those on the gun runners. And I know there's
41:58like an old school saying, you know, you ask an old school horseman about a flaxen. They're like,
42:04oh no, it's just a show horse. But these are gorgeous. Uh, very athletic. So one sold for 1.7
42:10million. There were 15 horses sold for a million dollars or more. Last year in the first session
42:16at Keeneland, there were 14 and incidentally the highest price in the first session last year was
42:22also a gun runner. So the gun runners are just, he's an incredible stallion because he's already
42:29proven. So people are jumping on, but I don't think I've ever seen a first year sire, uh, be quite so
42:37popular for this amount of money because he's not proven right flight line. He could, he might not have
42:42any winners. He might have a thousand winners. You, you just don't know. It's an unproven
42:47commodity that people are willing to take a chance on just because of his sheer brilliance.
42:53And I, I mean, I don't, I think he's a can't miss to be perfectly honest. They, they look great.
42:59One question. I want to ask your opinion. Yeah. Go ahead, Bill. Go ahead. Oh, I was just going to,
43:05one, the 3.3 million, $3.3 million gun runner bought by the, um, partnership of Coolmore and
43:12Peter Brand. Do we know if that horse is going to race in the U S or they're going to keep that
43:16horse overseas? I would imagine it's going to stay here. Uh, they brought the brother last year
43:20by curling, I think for 1.3 million and Chad Brown has him. So I'm sure he'll, he'll, and your chap
43:27Brown has Sierra Leo, you know, all these gun runners and curlings are all Chad's going to,
43:32you know, he can train a dirt horse, right? Sure. Randy. So I, I have a, yeah, I have a question
43:38to ask you, uh, as somebody, uh, you who follows the sales end of racing, as much as you do the
43:46racing in some of us like me don't really follow sales that closely. We follow racing. And so it,
43:53it seems almost like a contradiction that the sport of horse race racing is quite frankly,
44:01struggling at a lot of places, right? The full crop has gone way, way down. Field sizes have
44:07gone down. Uh, bedding is, is slumped over the last 20 years or so, but yet you look at the sales
44:13results, the upper end horses, it's, it's crazy. It's how many million dollar horses we're getting.
44:20Do you see that contradiction? And how do you, how do you explain it?
44:25It is amazing. You hit the nail on the head. And I think the thing that's really helped this year
44:31with the sales is the a hundred percent depreciation, the tax breaks that everybody is getting with being
44:37able to write off buying horses as an expense. So that's been huge for the upper echelon. The one
44:44percenters can just go ahead and, you know, spend millions on a horse and just use it as a,
44:50as a tax write-off. That's been like the main thing with the sales. The economy is very good.
44:56The stock market is through the roof and you've got this tax depreciation that is enabling you to
45:01write off expenses. So that's been the main factor in how strong the sales have been throughout the
45:08year. It started in January. It actually started last November, but I don't know how we can,
45:15you know, take that and put it to the racing. It's, it's odd, isn't it? You've got so much
45:22money at this end of the sport and then we're struggling on the racing end. I don't know what
45:28to make of it, but it's going to be insane. Like yesterday was just the beginning for opening
45:33day at Keeneland. Usually people are just, you know, getting, getting their bidding arms a little
45:38bit oiled up. Today's going to be crazy. It's almost like there's a whole separate,
45:44whole separate economy. There's the sales economy and then there's the racing economy.
45:51Yeah. There's, well, you see, you have nowadays a lot of people, and this is a horrible thing to say,
45:56they breed to sell. There's only a handful of people now in this industry that breed to race.
46:03It's all about the money. The racing is a bonus, right? Like for a lot of people,
46:08there are a lot of people, pin hooking, pin hooking to sell, breeding to sell. It's all
46:13about the value of the horse in the ring. And it shouldn't be like, I like the breed to race
46:18philosophy of things, but here we are. We're at the sale. One more note. I have to make Alex
46:24Bregman, the third baseman, the Boston Red Sox paid $130,000 for a son. I don't know if the son or
46:31daughter of charlatan. And I bet you he'll be more active as the sale goes on. Get paid $40 million a
46:37year. You can afford a couple of horses. So good luck to Mr. Bregman.
46:42See that little B on Bill's shirt?
46:44Yeah. Yeah. There you go.
46:46Yeah.
46:47I'm trying to buy an Alex Bregman jersey, but they're all sold out. So anyways, maybe I'll
46:52have that for next week.
46:55The DD and Riders Room also brought to you by our friends at the PHBA, the Pennsylvania
46:59Horse Breeders Association. This past weekend, the $100,000 Twix state won in dominating fashion
47:06by Foxy Jr. She now has competed in seven stakes races. She has won four. Foxy Jr. owned and bred
47:14by Diane Stern. So congratulations to Diane and to Foxy Jr. And don't forget, here's a little
47:20future alert. Pennsylvania Day at the races. It'll be September 19th at Parks. The Pennsylvania
47:28Breeds that day will buy for total purses of over $750,000, which includes three $100,000
47:36stakes races. Come on out and have a good time. Again, Friday, September 19th, first post that
47:41day, 12, 15 p.m. For more information about the Pennsylvania Breeding Program, you can contact
47:46Brian Sanfratello at 610-444-1050, or you can log on to pabread.com.
47:56The Pennsylvania Breeding Program is the best program in the country. The stallion awards,
48:02the owner bonuses, also the restrictive races, and the stakes races for Pennsylvania Breeds.
48:07This year, eight breeders are on track to earn over $200,000 in breeders' awards, and two
48:15could hit the million-dollar mark. We have the best program in the country. Take advantage
48:22of the fantastic program that we have. Learn more at pabread.com.
48:26Be a smarter bettor with First TV. The best horses. With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
48:42All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox. Everything you need to be informed.
48:50Be smart. Bet smart. With First TV.
48:56It's time for the first TV work of the week. Let's take a look at Bob Baffert's undefeated
49:02Cavalieri, not seen since winning the Beholder Mile on March the 8th. This is her fifth work back
49:09since the layoff. She worked on Saturday in a minute flat. That's her on the outside working
49:14in company with Greatestakes placed Casalou on the inside. Cavalieri is a perfect 4-for-4,
49:21including that win in the Grade 1 Beholder Mile and the Grade 3 Lacan Yardy Stakes.
49:25It's La Canyada Stakes, even. Bob said she's being pointed towards the Grade 2 Zenyada Stakes,
49:31September the 28th, at Santa Anita. It looks like we still have Breeders' Cup in mind for the
49:37daughter of Nyquist. Well, because the last two weeks were so important in the two-year-old racing
49:43with the first grade ones at Saratoga and at Del Mar, why don't we take a kind of look at this
49:47overall crop and see where we think we're going. Who was the most impressive two-year-old that I've seen
49:53so far? I think, and I'm going to get it right this time, Ted Noffi. See? How about that? Nailed it
50:00the first time with Ted Noffi. But again, as I was talking a little bit about the Bob Baffert
50:06in the Del Mar Futurity, no winner of this race, as the hopeful, has won the Kentucky Derby
50:15since affirmed in 1977. So it's not a big predictor of future greatness, though I think
50:22the source is a little bit different. I think he's got everything going for him. He's got the
50:27breeding. He's got the right connections. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he is
50:31very much in the hunt next year for the Kentucky Derby. I would also say that, you know, so we saw the
50:38best of the New York horses and the best of the California horses. Tommy Joe, very good in this
50:44spin away. Same connections, spendthrift into mischief, Todd Pletcher. I would have to say,
50:50especially because Baffert had sort of a weird weekend with his nine-to-one shot winning and with
50:55Brant not being super impressive, I would have to say that right now the East Coast two-year-olds
51:01look to me a little bit better than the West Coast two-year-olds, Randy.
51:05Yeah, I'll give props to Zoe there for spotting that pretty quickly last week. So Ted Noffy.
51:13Ted Noffy and It's Our Time, the horse trained by Tom Amos that won a son of Not This Time,
51:20that won at Saratoga at first asking by, what was it, 17 and three-quarters lengths with a big number.
51:26Those two on paper to me look like the most promising two-year-olds on the East Coast. And then
51:32on the West Coast, the Colt Division, you've got Brandt and you've got Desert Gate, the one-two
51:37finishers in the Del Mar Futurity. You've also got a horse that might be interesting to watch,
51:41another Amor Zidane horse that broke his maiden on the undercard of the Del Mar Futurity, a horse
51:48called Boyd that got like a 92 buyer's speed figure first time out. He's a son of violence.
51:54What might Baffert do with him? Might he bring him back next start in the American Pharaoh around two
52:01turns and see if he might be a Breeders' Cup type horse? I don't know. We'll see. And then with the
52:06Phillies, of course, you've got what we saw in the Del Mar debutante and then you've got Tommy Joe.
52:11But the weekend of October 3rd and October 4th is just going to be gigantic in this division because
52:19on the 3rd, you've got the Alcibiades. We'll see if Tommy Joe is as good around two turns as she was
52:24in Spinaway. And then on October 4th in New York, you've got the Champagne and the Frazette. This is
52:32a Saturday. At Keeneland, you've got the Breeders' Futurity. And at Santa Anita, you've got both the
52:37American Pharaoh and the Oakleaf. So we're going to know a whole lot more after that weekend than we do
52:44right now. Randy, Ewing is running in the Breeders' Futurity. Still not real high on him?
52:50There you go. Well, look, you know, I wouldn't, you know, completely dismiss him at this point
52:56just because he ran a slow fig last time out. I mean, we saw he looked pretty impressive in his
53:01career debut. So, I mean, there's a lot that's yet to be written, Zoe, about this two-year-old
53:08division around two turns. For sure. And there's a lot of, especially in the Philly division, a lot
53:14of nice Phillies that haven't even started yet. Watching some of those work at Saratoga this
53:19summer and at Del Mar. And you're going to see some Colts pop out of the woodwork as well.
53:23Ned Toffee, the leader of the division. Ted Noffey, the leader of the division.
53:27I'm concerned. Got me. Got me one. It's our time. Definitely. Not an overly big son of not this time,
53:36but boy, was he impressive. Tommy Joe, obviously, she's the leader for the Phillies.
53:40Boyd was very impressive, breaking his maiden in a fast time. And the interesting thing,
53:47and the thing that I think deserves mentioning, is that this horse was bought out of a gallop
53:52at the Timonium sale when they shut down all the breezes. This guy galloped and did actually gallop.
53:59Like, a lot of the gallops went in 10 and change, 11 and change. I timed this guy went 29 for two
54:06furlongs. So he literally two-minute licked down the lane for top line. And he's a horse that
54:10they've always had a very, very high opinion of. I spoke to them yesterday and they were delighted
54:17with his win. So good things to come from Boyd. Golden Tornado for Danny Gargan was a very impressive
54:24maiden winner at Saratoga. Eating dirt and doing everything the right way. He'll show up in that
54:30mistake in New York. And then how about some turfers? Deep learning for Chad Brown. Very nice
54:36filly indeed. I was asking Ben Gowans from Gainesway this morning and I said, I think of some more
54:42fillies. I can only think of Tommy Joe. I'm blinded by Tommy Joe. And he's like, what about deep
54:47learning? I'm like, oh, there you go. So there's one for the turf. Thank you for that, Ben. So those
54:53would be the top ones thus far. So as long as you're mentioning turf horses, how about the horse
54:59that won the grass stake at Delmar over the weekend? Hey, nay, nay. You don't see John Sadler.
55:05I know that's not a sexy division, two-year-old sprinters on the grass, but you don't see John
55:12Sadler have too many horses like this. And with really precocious horses, that would be my pick
55:20right now to win that Breeders' Cup race. I've been impressed with that horse as well.
55:24Yeah, the horse looked good. John's going to fly under the radar with some nice two-year-olds.
55:30They just come in a little bit later. We'll see them at Santa Anita. He saves them.
55:35Yeah, he was even money in that race. He had just won the Tyro at five-eighths of a mile of Monmouth,
55:40and they stretch him out of Delmar to one mile. It's a buyer of 78, which is not bad for two-year-olds
55:47going around two turns in the month of September. So, you know, we'll see what happens
55:50with Chad back east in that division. And of course, the Europeans are going to be really
55:56the ones to keep an eye on when it comes down to Breeders' Cup time.
56:01And the TD and Riders Room brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds. You know where Terry
56:06Finley and the entire West Point team are right now. They are at Keeneland September, getting ready
56:11to add to their stable of racing prospects. West Point, of course, was the co-owner of
56:162022 Horse of the Year Flightline. And as we told you, the first yearlings by Flightline
56:21have been all the rage at Keeneland. We'll be keeping you up to date on West Point's purchases
56:27and future podcasts. In the meantime, you can keep up yourself by logging on to www.westpointtv.com.
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56:52Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
56:59West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
57:03Visit westpointtv.com.
57:05That's a wrap on this week's show. I want to thank Randy Moss and Zoe Cadman, my partners in this
57:13enterprise. Zoe Cadman coming live from Keeneland, and Randy Moss coming live from a hotel room
57:19somewhere in Los Angeles.
57:23Anyways, I'd also like to thank the Gainesway guests of the week, Chris Hyde, and the people
57:28that work so hard behind the scenes to make this podcast what it is. That's Sue Finley,
57:31Katie Petroniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca. We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening.
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