Stewart Lee - 2026-03-24 - LTP [couchtripper] - video Dailymotion

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Watch Stewart Lee - 2026-03-24 - LTP [couchtripper] - couchtripperdocs on Dailymotion

Transcript

00:00:10Come on in. I feel like a headmaster.

00:00:12Oh yeah, sorry, I couldn't find you.

00:00:14You were lost in the bowels of Spotify.

00:00:16Yeah.

00:00:16It's happened to me before.

00:00:18Is this made by Spotify, then?

00:00:20Yeah.

00:00:20I wouldn't have done it if I'd known.

00:00:22Well, this is... We can talk about that.

00:00:24Yeah, fine.

00:00:24We can talk about that.

00:00:25I've had almost stuff taken off Spotify.

00:00:28As I understand it, you took your stuff off.

00:00:30Yeah.

00:00:31Because of the Joe Rogan issue?

00:00:34Yeah, and also Neil Young had done it,

00:00:35and I thought it would be funny to be the next person.

00:00:37And I knew that what would happen

00:00:39was that loads of American podcaster types would go,

00:00:43who the hell does this guy think he is?

00:00:45We've never even heard of him.

00:00:46But actually, Joni Mitchell got in next,

00:00:49so I was the third one, which just wasn't as funny.

00:00:52I thought the idea of it being Neil Young

00:00:54and then someone no one's heard of would be...

00:00:55Yeah. Good company to be in.

00:00:57But I think they might have gone back on.

00:01:00My things. Yeah, I think they have.

00:01:02What, yours? I meant...

00:01:03Neil Young has.

00:01:04Neil Young, I think, went back on.

00:01:05Yeah, yeah.

00:01:08It's not too late for you to leave.

00:01:09No, it's all right.

00:01:10It really hasn't.

00:01:11Maybe I'll meet and get the Joe Rogan audience.

00:01:14Yeah.

00:01:14It'll be great.

00:01:15You've never been to America, is that right?

00:01:17I've been to the country.

00:01:18Okay, but you haven't worked there.

00:01:20Well, I did the Montreal Festival in Canada,

00:01:23which is a trade fair for the American comedy industry,

00:01:26about three or four times,

00:01:28and they used to make me go to New York to do gigs before,

00:01:32to warm up, which is pointless,

00:01:34because you do a seven-minute set in front of a brick wall.

00:01:37You know, kind of...

00:01:38I know everyone else on the bill is awful.

00:01:40And you go to silence, and they're just confused

00:01:43of why you can possibly have been brought there, you know.

00:01:47But I had years of weird development deals.

00:01:51I had a film on the go for about 15 years.

00:01:53I went backwards and forwards to Hollywood all the time

00:01:56before I finally just gave up on it.

00:01:58Really?

00:01:58Yeah.

00:01:59A film that you'd written?

00:02:00Yeah.

00:02:00I had lots of adventures.

00:02:01What can you say about that?

00:02:03Well, I can say that at one point,

00:02:04I had Alan Rickman, Peter Fonda, and Daryl Hannah

00:02:08all lined up to be in it.

00:02:09That's quite a line-up.

00:02:10Yeah, and Alan Rickman was a fantastically helpful bloke.

00:02:15Really nice.

00:02:16He would have been alive at that point.

00:02:17He was alive.

00:02:18It was the point.

00:02:19But it's a good question, though, in the modern world,

00:02:22because presumably he could be regenerated by it.

00:02:25Exactly.

00:02:25It's still not too late to make it.

00:02:26It'd be weird for him to be helpful as a deepfake.

00:02:30But it's exactly what he was like.

00:02:31It's not impossible.

00:02:32He's a very helpful man.

00:02:33And, yeah, Daryl Hannah was hilarious,

00:02:36and Peter Fonda, who's also dead now,

00:02:38was everything you'd want Peter Fonda to be.

00:02:41I went to meet Peter Fonda.

00:02:43I'd want him to be on a motorbike.

00:02:45No, he'd read it, and he said,

00:02:47I don't care what you talk about,

00:02:49but I'm not talking about Easy Rider.

00:02:50I'm sick of it.

00:02:51He said, I've been doing press for a DVD release,

00:02:54and I'm sick of talking about Easy Rider,

00:02:56and the 60s.

00:02:57I'm not talking about any of that.

00:02:58And then within five minutes he couldn't help himself

00:03:00because all of his great anecdotes were about that time,

00:03:04and it was everything you wanted to know.

00:03:06When he's in the hot tub with the Beatles and the birds,

00:03:10and they're on acid, and Peter Fonda said,

00:03:12I know what it's like to be dead.

00:03:14Right.

00:03:14And Lennon obviously used that in,

00:03:16I know what it's like to be dead.

00:03:19That's right.

00:03:19Then you read the other side of that story,

00:03:21and John Lennon says that Peter Fonda was so depressed on acid

00:03:25that he was bringing everyone down or whatever.

00:03:28So what happened to you?

00:03:29By the way, people who are listening,

00:03:31we do have listeners.

00:03:32Yeah.

00:03:33This is a nice preamble.

00:03:34I'm going to do a topic.

00:03:35Is this the start?

00:03:35We've started.

00:03:36Is this on, going to go out?

00:03:37This is on.

00:03:38Oh, right.

00:03:38Wow.

00:03:40Thank you for coming on.

00:03:41Thank you for not walking off.

00:03:42I've never said that before.

00:03:43Right.

00:03:43I feel like we should have met before.

00:03:45No, I've met loads.

00:03:46I mean, I've met loads of your relatives

00:03:47and people that know you,

00:03:49but I've not met you.

00:03:50Nice to meet you.

00:03:51You're a little older, but not that much.

00:03:54You were born in 68.

00:03:55Yeah.

00:03:55I'm 70.

00:03:56Not years old.

00:03:57That's my year.

00:03:59My kids are very excited on this.

00:04:01They love you.

00:04:02Young people.

00:04:03You're really popular with young people.

00:04:05Nice to hear that.

00:04:06Is it because you've worked,

00:04:07you've a social media phenomena?

00:04:09Not really.

00:04:10No.

00:04:11What do they see?

00:04:12How old are they?

00:04:13They're, oh, 18 and 14,

00:04:15but they've liked you since they were much younger.

00:04:17There's a couple of glosses I could put on that.

00:04:18I love this part of the show.

00:04:19Why do they, what do you think they,

00:04:20Why am I so beloved?

00:04:22Why do they like you?

00:04:23What could it possibly be?

00:04:24I've seen you.

00:04:25I think there's a couple of theories I'd advance.

00:04:27One would be the younger one was aware of my Jiggle Jiggle,

00:04:31which surely you know.

00:04:32No, I don't.

00:04:33Really.

00:04:33I have a gold record.

00:04:35Oh, right.

00:04:35Yeah.

00:04:35So it's called Jiggle Jiggle.

00:04:36It's a rap track that I wrote with two rappers from Mississippi.

00:04:40And I did it 25 years ago as part of a TV show.

00:04:44Yeah.

00:04:44It was a gimmick within a TV documentary.

00:04:47Yeah.

00:04:49A bit like Duncan Dares.

00:04:50Yeah.

00:04:50I'm going to try, you know, like a Blue Peter thing.

00:04:52Right.

00:04:52You know, I'm going to try and write my own rap track for Weird Weekends.

00:04:55And 25 years later, for bizarre, Byzantine reasons that aren't worth going into,

00:05:00it got picked up and a producer pair from Manchester put a track down behind it

00:05:05and it went viral on TikTok, but to an extraordinarily strange extent.

00:05:10So kids loved it.

00:05:11I think kids like you because your interviewing technique...

00:05:14Don't you want to hear a bit more about Jiggle Jiggle?

00:05:16No.

00:05:17But why they like these words is when you ask questions to people,

00:05:20you ask them like a child.

00:05:21They seem innocent, like you just want to know this thing, right?

00:05:25You're not like you're being a smooth operator.

00:05:28Okay.

00:05:29And I think they relate to that, I think.

00:05:32I think that's true.

00:05:32You ask the kind of questions that a child would ask.

00:05:34And I mean that in the best possible way.

00:05:36Like a very simple child.

00:05:39No, because it doesn't...

00:05:40That's why people walk into your traps, because they appear unguarded.

00:05:46I'll take that.

00:05:47I'm happy with that.

00:05:48Yeah.

00:05:48I don't know if I completely agree.

00:05:51I mean, I'll take the part that I...

00:05:53I see part of it.

00:05:55Yeah.

00:05:55What I think is also true is that there's something about documentaries

00:05:58that are somewhat evergreen because people are being real.

00:06:01And so documentaries tend to hold up.

00:06:04You can watch a film from the 50s, and it could be quite funny

00:06:07because the people are behaving in ways that are recognisable,

00:06:10but strange at the same time.

00:06:11And also, the themes that I've taken on in my films,

00:06:14my documentaries, are very evergreen.

00:06:16Well, if anything...

00:06:17Darkest parts of the human heart.

00:06:18Yeah.

00:06:19All those things are being amplified at speed by people in positions of power.

00:06:25And the kind of people that you would have viewed as kooky,

00:06:30if slightly unpleasant, eccentrics 25 years ago

00:06:33are now in the heart of the American government, for example.

00:06:36And as of yesterday, I think we need to face the fact that we're kind of at war with America.

00:06:41With the declaration that Trump made yesterday that he intends to protect European civilisation

00:06:49by using American power to support, in whatever way possible, far-right parties across Europe.

00:06:55Right?

00:06:55You know...

00:06:56You're referring to a statement that was put out.

00:06:58I don't think Trump appended his name to it.

00:07:00Okay.

00:07:01But it's on the US government website.

00:07:05And it gives a racial identitarian gloss to the idea of European citizenship.

00:07:13Yeah, and the Kremlin have said,

00:07:14we approve of this statement, it's broadly in line with our motives.

00:07:19Make a documentary about that.

00:07:22Maybe I will.

00:07:23Yeah.

00:07:23Maybe I have.

00:07:24Well, you sort of have.

00:07:25I've done versions of that.

00:07:26You've mapped the mindsets that led us to this point.

00:07:29You know, and when we try to understand the death throes of human civilisation,

00:07:35all the work you've done will be helpful to the irradiated survivors.

00:07:40You know, I feel like you're interviewing me,

00:07:42and the weird thing is I'm kind of enjoying it.

00:07:45My other line on this is that this kind of disinformation

00:07:49or sort of incendiary and partial kind of take on the world

00:07:55that's explicitly racially charged, or in other contexts,

00:07:58because it's also to do with, I think,

00:08:00with algorithms that are picking up a lot of highly charged sexual content.

00:08:03You know, porn drives the internet to a great extent as well.

00:08:06But when I started in the late 90s,

00:08:08this would arrive in your office,

00:08:11if you were doing research or in your home,

00:08:13in a brown paper envelope.

00:08:14And now, of course, it's being pumped

00:08:16at a rates of, you know, megabytes per second

00:08:19or gigabytes per second into your phone,

00:08:21which explains, I think, a great deal.

00:08:24We're in danger of agreeing too much.

00:08:26Can we talk about Manwolf?

00:08:28Oh, yeah, sure.

00:08:29Have you seen it?

00:08:29No.

00:08:30Well, it's going to be difficult, isn't it?

00:08:32Well, I have seen quite a bit of your work.

00:08:35Right.

00:08:35I would have seen it if there had been an option to see it.

00:08:38I would have had to see it live,

00:08:39and it just didn't, the timing still fine.

00:08:41Well, I did five months at Leicester Square,

00:08:44and then a week at the Royal Festival Hall.

00:08:48It sounds like you're saying I didn't try very hard.

00:08:49I think you tried very hard,

00:08:51because you've had about 70 opportunities

00:08:53to have seen it in London alone,

00:08:55and it's been on tour kind of five nights a week

00:08:57since January, and it's stopped.

00:09:01Shall we sit in this awkwardness for a second?

00:09:03It is.

00:09:04I'm really easy to see as a comedian.

00:09:07I spread myself extremely thinly over,

00:09:13and then it's rocking around until the end of next year.

00:09:15But it's funny, because it's sort of,

00:09:17the world's played into its hands.

00:09:19It's December last year, people going,

00:09:21well, you know, I'll sort of get it,

00:09:22and then the world is sharpening it up.

00:09:25I don't have to change it too much,

00:09:27as it becomes more relevant,

00:09:28because people can see the direction of travel.

00:09:30In fact, at the moment,

00:09:31I've just laid it off for six weeks over Christmas,

00:09:34and then pick it up again in February,

00:09:35and all this stuff's got to go in,

00:09:37this American policy statement,

00:09:39and, you know, loads of things will need to be addressed.

00:09:44The man-wolf character is a kind of composite of,

00:09:46those kind of American stand-ups like Joe Rogan

00:09:50that are often unwitting tools of the far right.

00:09:53And if anything, the character now is not unpleasant enough.

00:09:58It's the things it's saying are not as bad

00:10:01as the things that are being said by these people for real.

00:10:05It's in three parts, right?

00:10:07All right, the core conceit of the man-wolf.

00:10:12Is this a review of it?

00:10:13A brutally forthright well.

00:10:15From somewhere.

00:10:15I'm afraid to tell you where I got this.

00:10:17All right, okay.

00:10:18You can do, where?

00:10:19AI.

00:10:21Really?

00:10:21An AI has generated it?

00:10:23Well, I Googled it.

00:10:24Yeah.

00:10:24And, you know, with Google now,

00:10:25it gives you a little AI thing at the top.

00:10:28The next thing is not the AI thing.

00:10:30That's right.

00:10:31So, in generating that, you've used ten times.

00:10:35But I Googled it.

00:10:35Yeah, but I didn't press on the AI bit.

00:10:37Okay, well, don't then.

00:10:38No, I didn't.

00:10:38Because it uses ten times the water.

00:10:40Ten times the energy.

00:10:41I know that.

00:10:41The energy.

00:10:42But literally, I Googled it.

00:10:43Yeah, well, just go to the next thing down.

00:10:45Don't go to the AI.

00:10:46I didn't click on it.

00:10:47Right.

00:10:47A brutally forthright werewolf counterpart

00:10:50with a tiny plastic member

00:10:51to mock perceived alpha male inadequacy

00:10:54is central to the show's humour and social critique.

00:10:56Who said...

00:10:57I think this is The Guardian.

00:10:59It's as improbable a show

00:11:01as with any right to expect of a man

00:11:0235 years into his career.

00:11:05The opening of its second act,

00:11:06which finds Lee in full werewolf costume,

00:11:09screaming unintelligibly

00:11:11into a microphone to a rock backing track,

00:11:15makes one wonder if he's staging

00:11:16his own midlife crisis.

00:11:17Yeah, I am.

00:11:18Are you?

00:11:19Yeah, yeah.

00:11:20It feels like it was...

00:11:21Cometh the hour, cometh the man, in this case.

00:11:24Yeah.

00:11:24It's very au courant.

00:11:25Yeah, I've been really lucky.

00:11:27Often you live in fear.

00:11:29I had one show,

00:11:30and it was all about, you know,

00:11:31the politics of Brexit and whatever,

00:11:33and talking about Boris Johnson

00:11:37was a key element of it,

00:11:38and he was a kind of thread

00:11:40that tied it all together.

00:11:41And I ended up touring it

00:11:43for quite a long time,

00:11:44and I kept thinking,

00:11:46he's going to get sacked,

00:11:47because he kept doing insane things.

00:11:49I thought, he's going to be sacked.

00:11:50And any normal politician

00:11:51would have been sacked,

00:11:52or resigned at that point.

00:11:54And he was hanging out.

00:11:55I had this weird thing

00:11:56where I didn't want him to go,

00:11:57even though I couldn't stand him,

00:11:59because it was the spine of the show.

00:12:03And then, amazingly,

00:12:05about four or five days

00:12:06after I did the last performance,

00:12:08that was when he finally went.

00:12:10And so you worry that sometimes

00:12:12shows are retreating from you.

00:12:15You have to tour them around

00:12:16for about 18 months, two years,

00:12:17and sometimes the ideas

00:12:19become less relevant or drift.

00:12:21But this, every day,

00:12:24something sharpens it up,

00:12:25and I'm going to film it

00:12:28at the last possible moment

00:12:29in October next year,

00:12:31and then, you know,

00:12:33hopefully get it out

00:12:34within a couple of months,

00:12:35wherever it ends up going.

00:12:37But it's horrifying,

00:12:40the speed at which

00:12:41it is being focused

00:12:43by events and attitudes.

00:12:44To what extent

00:12:45are you aiming your guns

00:12:47at that comedy style?

00:12:50Yeah.

00:12:51I'm aiming my guns

00:12:52at that comedy style.

00:12:54But also,

00:12:56it is fun to do it.

00:12:58Because it's easy.

00:13:00Because, you know,

00:13:01as someone from the liberal,

00:13:03I mean, I talk about this

00:13:04in the show,

00:13:05as someone from the 1980s liberal

00:13:07alternative comedy tradition,

00:13:10we were encouraged

00:13:12by what you now call

00:13:13wokeness,

00:13:14to think about

00:13:16the validity of our targets,

00:13:18whether those people

00:13:19deserved it.

00:13:20They used to call it

00:13:21political correctness.

00:13:22And I am politically correct,

00:13:23you know.

00:13:24I try to be politically correct.

00:13:26But the Netflix comedian

00:13:28doesn't have to think about that.

00:13:30In fact,

00:13:31there's a positive financial value

00:13:34to them not thinking about it.

00:13:35because if they create a fence,

00:13:38it creates interest.

00:13:40It tends not to lead to cancellation,

00:13:42although they like to think

00:13:43that it does.

00:13:44It tends to lead to an inflation

00:13:46of your market value.

00:13:48So it's really great

00:13:49writing the nasty werewolf set

00:13:52and being able to sort of do anything.

00:13:54And also to be,

00:13:56I try not to run the room

00:13:59in a bossy way,

00:14:00as myself.

00:14:01I try to absorb

00:14:05any aggro,

00:14:06like a soft target,

00:14:08you know.

00:14:08I don't like having to run the room.

00:14:11I can do it.

00:14:12I don't have to do it.

00:14:13But the werewolf can do that.

00:14:14And it's great.

00:14:16What do you mean by run the room?

00:14:17Put people down.

00:14:18Control heckles, you know.

00:14:19I try to let things play out.

00:14:21I try to deal with problems like that

00:14:24in a gentle sort of way,

00:14:26if I can.

00:14:27I don't like having to be

00:14:28like a club comic,

00:14:29like I was for 10 years in the 90s,

00:14:30where you have to run a room.

00:14:32So it's very liberating

00:14:33being a werewolf.

00:14:34It's really good fun.

00:14:35Is that a performance decision,

00:14:36or is that like a moral decision?

00:14:38It's a performance decision,

00:14:39and it's also because

00:14:40a lot of my stuff

00:14:43is about me

00:14:43as a sort of

00:14:45weirdly low status figure

00:14:47who thinks in his mind

00:14:48that he's the greatest comedian

00:14:49of all time

00:14:50and should get more respect.

00:14:51So I have to kind of

00:14:53keep a lid on the status,

00:14:55if you know what I mean,

00:14:56for the jokes to work.

00:14:57And so if you're suddenly

00:14:58running a room

00:14:59and bossing people about,

00:15:00it unbalances it a bit.

00:15:02So you have to

00:15:02hand the power back

00:15:04to the heckler

00:15:05or to the person

00:15:06that's joined in.

00:15:06I try to make them get over.

00:15:08It's increasingly difficult,

00:15:09actually,

00:15:09to involve the public

00:15:10because there's a certain

00:15:11kind of comedian now,

00:15:12and again,

00:15:13I blame the internet,

00:15:15who wants to manufacture

00:15:16conflict on stage,

00:15:18ideally film it

00:15:19on a camera phone

00:15:20and then get it

00:15:21on the internet,

00:15:21and there'll be

00:15:22a 30-second clip

00:15:23called Steve Norman

00:15:25destroys heckler,

00:15:26and then millions

00:15:27of people watch it,

00:15:28and thousands of people

00:15:29go and see them live,

00:15:30and they haven't got an act,

00:15:31and they don't go

00:15:31a second time.

00:15:32It's a kind of thing now,

00:15:33and I think audience members

00:15:34are often quite reluctant

00:15:35to join in with you now

00:15:36because they're worried

00:15:36that they're going

00:15:38to be attacked,

00:15:39whereas I try to give them

00:15:42the power

00:15:42and let them get the laughs,

00:15:44and I try to feed them

00:15:46stuff that I know

00:15:47will set them up

00:15:48for things.

00:15:48It's one of the reasons

00:15:49I never liked panel shows,

00:15:52I realise,

00:15:53in retrospect,

00:15:54that if you are on a panel show

00:15:57and you think of it

00:15:58as the good of the whole

00:15:59and you try to feed people lines

00:16:01or set them up for things,

00:16:02that's viewed as a weakness

00:16:03because then they get the laugh.

00:16:06But if you think

00:16:07of these things collectively,

00:16:09like an improvisation,

00:16:10and again,

00:16:11it sounds pretentious,

00:16:12but I watch a lot

00:16:13of improvised music,

00:16:14and those people

00:16:15are not stars.

00:16:16They work as a unit.

00:16:18They make space

00:16:19for each other

00:16:20in a free jazz trio.

00:16:22Are you laughing?

00:16:23Because I thought

00:16:24we'd go to free jazz

00:16:25at some point.

00:16:25Well, you can't escape it

00:16:27once you start thinking

00:16:28like that.

00:16:28It's sort of

00:16:29a philosophy for life.

00:16:32I've got a great bit

00:16:33of paper that Evan Parker

00:16:34gave me in the 90s.

00:16:37Is he a free jazz?

00:16:38Yeah, he's one of the

00:16:41great British 60s wave

00:16:43of people.

00:16:44And he's a piece of paper

00:16:46that they used to photocopy

00:16:48and all give to each other.

00:16:49Monk's advice.

00:16:51Thelonious Monk

00:16:51about performance.

00:16:53What happens in the room

00:16:54is the show.

00:16:56Oh, isn't that great?

00:16:58What happens in the room

00:16:59is the show.

00:17:02And of course now

00:17:03you can just find that.

00:17:03Hang on, let's pause on that

00:17:04because some people

00:17:05might be confused.

00:17:06I think I get it.

00:17:08Well, sometimes

00:17:08there's no platonic show

00:17:10that you're aspiring

00:17:10to get to.

00:17:11No.

00:17:11What it means is

00:17:12every night is different

00:17:13and sometimes you have

00:17:14to bend to that night

00:17:15rather than trying to

00:17:17make it into the

00:17:18platonic ideal of the show.

00:17:19Even though this show

00:17:20has these three phases

00:17:22and it has an argument

00:17:22and the beginning

00:17:23and the middle

00:17:23and the end

00:17:24and whatever,

00:17:24the same show,

00:17:25two nights,

00:17:26can be a totally

00:17:27different energy

00:17:28because of stuff

00:17:29that happens

00:17:29and you have to

00:17:30go there.

00:17:30But the great thing

00:17:31about that piece of paper

00:17:32is I remember

00:17:32when it was a piece of paper

00:17:33you were privileged

00:17:34to be given it.

00:17:35Of course,

00:17:35now you can find it,

00:17:36you can find a scan of it

00:17:38on the internet

00:17:39like that.

00:17:40But I had it

00:17:41when it was still

00:17:42a photocopy,

00:17:43Monk's Advice.

00:17:43And it's a great thing

00:17:44to look at.

00:17:45I have it on the fridge.

00:17:46I admired in,

00:17:48I think it was basically

00:17:48your previous show,

00:17:50which is on Now TV

00:17:51and there's a lot

00:17:52to like about it

00:17:53but I admired a moment

00:17:54where someone in the audience

00:17:55threatens to punch you.

00:17:56Yeah, in the front row, yeah.

00:17:57And it feels,

00:17:59I'm watching it

00:18:00and thinking like

00:18:00this feels like

00:18:01it could be awkward

00:18:02because I don't know

00:18:03if he means it

00:18:04but he doesn't not mean it.

00:18:05He does not mean it, no.

00:18:07Because he thought

00:18:08you were cheeking his wife

00:18:09or something?

00:18:09Yeah, yeah.

00:18:10But you rode it.

00:18:11Do you get a little squirt

00:18:12of panic

00:18:13if something like that happens?

00:18:16I never feel

00:18:17as safe

00:18:18as I do

00:18:19on stage.

00:18:20The world

00:18:21is the problem.

00:18:22Really?

00:18:23Right, the world

00:18:24is the problem

00:18:24and the stage

00:18:25is the safest place

00:18:29because within

00:18:31certain parameters

00:18:33you feel protected

00:18:36and this show

00:18:37even more so

00:18:38because at the start

00:18:39of the second half

00:18:39once I'm in that

00:18:40werewolf costume

00:18:41it's not even me doing it.

00:18:42I get to the interview

00:18:43and I think

00:18:43oh, I'm done now

00:18:44and then the stuff

00:18:45happens to this puppet

00:18:46that I'm operating.

00:18:47It's not even me.

00:18:49When the kids were little

00:18:51I would, you know,

00:18:52depending on who was

00:18:53working or whatever

00:18:53I'd get them from school

00:18:54I'd do their tea

00:18:56I'd try and get

00:18:56their homework going

00:18:57and then I'd get on

00:18:58the bus to

00:18:59Finsbury Park Station

00:19:00and try to

00:19:01be at the Leicester Square Theatre

00:19:02for 7.30 or whatever

00:19:04for four months

00:19:05when I was doing my run

00:19:06and the moment

00:19:07I walked on stage

00:19:08I would think

00:19:09ah, some time to myself

00:19:10you know

00:19:11it's not a problem

00:19:13I'm never nervous

00:19:15and I feel

00:19:17a sense

00:19:18of incredible calm

00:19:20even when

00:19:21things are

00:19:22going wrong

00:19:23whereas

00:19:24to come here

00:19:26or to

00:19:27deal with emails

00:19:28about

00:19:29admin

00:19:30and finance

00:19:31or

00:19:31anything

00:19:32like that

00:19:34is much worse

00:19:35and

00:19:35I think

00:19:37that

00:19:37for me

00:19:38in retrospect

00:19:40becoming a comedian

00:19:41was a means of escape

00:19:42from the world

00:19:44and to live in

00:19:45a certain controlled

00:19:46environment

00:19:47and

00:19:48it's not a job

00:19:49I would do today

00:19:50if I was starting out

00:19:52you have to generate

00:19:53internet content

00:19:54and be a personality

00:19:55and interact with people

00:19:57and I don't want to do that

00:19:58what's your

00:19:59what's your best joke

00:20:01my best joke

00:20:02well the one

00:20:03that

00:20:03I get stopped

00:20:04about in the street

00:20:05every day

00:20:06and I was stopped

00:20:07this morning

00:20:08by a guy about it

00:20:10is a routine

00:20:11from I think

00:20:112013

00:20:12about

00:20:13waves of migration

00:20:15into Britain

00:20:15that was on

00:20:16Comedy Vehicle

00:20:17and it never seems

00:20:19to go away

00:20:19it's been sampled

00:20:21by Asian Dub Foundation

00:20:22where I think

00:20:23it got to number one

00:20:23in the charts

00:20:24although it was not

00:20:25played by any

00:20:27radio stations

00:20:28obviously

00:20:29and

00:20:30it just goes

00:20:31round and round

00:20:32and round

00:20:33partly because

00:20:34endless waves

00:20:35of people

00:20:36on the far right

00:20:37keep restating

00:20:37the same

00:20:38arguments

00:20:39which it counters

00:20:40so that's probably

00:20:42the most famous one

00:20:44you start with

00:20:44the Beaker people

00:20:45or does it go backwards

00:20:46it starts with

00:20:47now

00:20:48and it works back

00:20:49through

00:20:50Neolithic people

00:20:51and Beaker people

00:20:51and it works back

00:20:52what's the framing

00:20:53well the people

00:20:55are coming over here

00:20:55from all these

00:20:56different

00:20:57I can't remember

00:20:58I can't remember

00:20:59Eugonos

00:21:00coming over here

00:21:01taking our jobs

00:21:01yeah

00:21:02and then it gets

00:21:04back to the idea

00:21:05that it was better

00:21:05when nothing existed

00:21:07which I was thinking

00:21:09about today

00:21:09I was talking to

00:21:11Armando Inucci

00:21:12this morning

00:21:12about an idea

00:21:14and he was talking

00:21:15about how

00:21:16a lot of the far right

00:21:18is about a nostalgia

00:21:19for an imagined

00:21:20better past

00:21:20in fact

00:21:22Anderton

00:21:23what's he called

00:21:24Lee Anderson

00:21:25was talking about

00:21:26how he thinks

00:21:27disabled people

00:21:28should be given

00:21:29those little blue

00:21:29three wheeler cars

00:21:30that they used to have

00:21:31Robin Reliance

00:21:32yeah

00:21:33they used to have

00:21:33little specially adapted

00:21:34one seater

00:21:35oh did they

00:21:36this would be better

00:21:37than them having money

00:21:38to use for their

00:21:39own transport

00:21:40there's this kind

00:21:41of nostalgia

00:21:41for a simpler past

00:21:42so what I did nail

00:21:44in that routine

00:21:44and often that bit

00:21:45gets cut off

00:21:46is people being

00:21:48nostalgic

00:21:50about the time

00:21:51before anything

00:21:52existed

00:21:52when life was

00:21:54at it's most simple

00:21:55when there was

00:21:56no matter

00:21:56or energy

00:21:58or nothing

00:21:58and I kind of think

00:21:59that that's the

00:22:01reduced to absurdity

00:22:02position of the far right

00:22:03is this kind of

00:22:04weird nostalgia

00:22:05for an imagined

00:22:07simpler past

00:22:08yeah so that

00:22:09that's the bit

00:22:09that everyone

00:22:10knows I suppose

00:22:11and the bit

00:22:12that people

00:22:13are sick of as well

00:22:14one of the things

00:22:14obviously

00:22:15that you've become

00:22:18I don't know

00:22:18famous for

00:22:19but certainly

00:22:20you haven't held back

00:22:21on is calling out

00:22:23other comedians

00:22:24right

00:22:25yeah again

00:22:26it doesn't

00:22:26right

00:22:26and I never know

00:22:27because another thing

00:22:28you've said is that

00:22:28on stage you're in character

00:22:29and you play the character

00:22:30of Stuart Lee

00:22:31funnily enough

00:22:34you understand this

00:22:36you're in character

00:22:36when you're interviewing

00:22:37you play a faux naïf

00:22:39when you're interviewing

00:22:40some of those people

00:22:41am I in character now

00:22:43no

00:22:44there's no need for it

00:22:45with me

00:22:45you play a faux naïf

00:22:47and also being

00:22:47you play up to

00:22:49an English middle classness

00:22:51in America

00:22:51which disarms those people

00:22:52there's something in that

00:22:54yeah

00:22:54but nevertheless

00:22:55I would say

00:22:56I kind of go in

00:22:57and out of character

00:22:58and I do believe in

00:22:59you know

00:23:00may I say

00:23:01it's got non-binary

00:23:02in a sense

00:23:03like the idea of

00:23:05shifts

00:23:05you know

00:23:06tones

00:23:07tonal shifts

00:23:09register shifts

00:23:09so it's also

00:23:10it's a fallacy

00:23:11the idea like

00:23:12I'm now in character

00:23:13I'm going to call you a cunt

00:23:14now I'm not in character

00:23:15I don't think you're a cunt

00:23:16do you know what I mean

00:23:18yeah

00:23:18felt weird calling you a cunt

00:23:20even though I was in character

00:23:20can you do that on Spotify

00:23:22can you say that

00:23:22yeah

00:23:23wow

00:23:25the character of Stuart Lee

00:23:26is a jealous

00:23:27delusional

00:23:27bitter

00:23:28arrogant

00:23:28person

00:23:29anxious to give a good

00:23:30account of himself

00:23:31actually there was a better

00:23:32one where you talked about

00:23:33him being sort of

00:23:33woke

00:23:34and pious

00:23:35and patronising

00:23:37and a scold

00:23:38yeah

00:23:39it's all the things

00:23:40that I am

00:23:41which

00:23:42in

00:23:43in

00:23:43normal

00:23:44everyday life

00:23:45you

00:23:46check them

00:23:47yeah

00:23:47you check them

00:23:49and pull back on them

00:23:50and

00:23:50their useful traits

00:23:52to amplify

00:23:53we were talking about

00:23:54it's funnier to be

00:23:57more aloof

00:23:58more arrogant

00:23:59owning your

00:24:01worst qualities

00:24:02yeah

00:24:04but also about the fact

00:24:05that that's involved

00:24:10casting shade at

00:24:11or whatever the phrase

00:24:12would be

00:24:12other comedians

00:24:13like you've sailed

00:24:14quite close to the wind

00:24:15on that

00:24:15famously

00:24:16perhaps this might be

00:24:17one of your most famous

00:24:18jokes where you talk

00:24:19about

00:24:20how you kept hearing

00:24:21that James Corden

00:24:22was a fan

00:24:22and it was starting

00:24:24to get up your nose

00:24:24every time

00:24:25you would say

00:24:25he was trying to be a fan

00:24:26he was a fan

00:24:27he was just trying

00:24:27to seem intelligent

00:24:29it was a running gag

00:24:30of yours

00:24:30is that people

00:24:31come to your comedy

00:24:32to prove that

00:24:33they're intelligent

00:24:34to sort of

00:24:35seem elite

00:24:35well that's because

00:24:35that's what critics

00:24:36would say about it

00:24:37so I thought

00:24:38well I'll own that

00:24:39you'll own that

00:24:40that it's sort of

00:24:40six music listening

00:24:42Guardian reading

00:24:43you know

00:24:44knit your own

00:24:45yoghurt types

00:24:45anyway

00:24:46and you say like

00:24:46imagine James Corden

00:24:48watching one of my

00:24:49routines

00:24:50it's like a dog

00:24:51listening to classical

00:24:52music

00:24:52well the reason I did

00:24:53that about James Corden

00:24:54was because I was kept

00:24:56being told that James

00:24:57Corden was a fan

00:24:58and James Corden

00:24:59would turn up at

00:24:59little tryout gigs

00:25:00that I was doing

00:25:02and I had to think

00:25:05what would the character

00:25:06of Stuart Lee

00:25:07I don't mind him

00:25:08I don't know anything

00:25:09about him

00:25:11but unfortunately

00:25:12the character of Stuart Lee

00:25:13would be a snob

00:25:15about him

00:25:16so I had to say that

00:25:18I had to ruin that

00:25:19and sometimes

00:25:21I have to say things

00:25:22that I know

00:25:23will make my life

00:25:24worse

00:25:25and more difficult

00:25:26I once sabotaged

00:25:28a gig at the Royal Albert Hall

00:25:29because it's what

00:25:32he would have done

00:25:34Stuart Lee

00:25:35would have done

00:25:36yeah

00:25:37it'd be helpful

00:25:37if you had a different

00:25:38name for that person

00:25:41no

00:25:41but I mean

00:25:43I've done the

00:25:45Teenage Cancer Trust

00:25:46comedy night

00:25:47at the Royal Albert Hall

00:25:47twice

00:25:48the first time I did it

00:25:49Noel Fielding curated

00:25:50all the acts

00:25:50so I kind of fitted in

00:25:51I fitted in quite well

00:25:53on that night

00:25:53quirky offbeat comedy

00:25:55quirky offbeat

00:25:55it's fine

00:25:55the second time

00:25:56John Bishop did it

00:25:57and John Bishop

00:25:58likes me

00:25:59and I think John Bishop

00:25:59very funny

00:26:00Liverpool

00:26:01working class comedian

00:26:01but he's very different to me

00:26:02and all the other acts

00:26:03were of that kind of world

00:26:05and I came out

00:26:06and all the other people

00:26:07had been picked up

00:26:09on a big screen

00:26:09at the back

00:26:10and when I came out

00:26:11the screen went off

00:26:13I went oh

00:26:15I said I've turned that off

00:26:17you know

00:26:17well they're not filming me

00:26:18what's going on

00:26:20now my audience

00:26:21would have immediately

00:26:21started laughing

00:26:23choosing to do that

00:26:24at the Royal Albert Hall

00:26:25but they weren't

00:26:26they were thinking

00:26:26they didn't know who I was

00:26:27they were thinking

00:26:28who's this bloke

00:26:28so I went

00:26:28the irony is

00:26:29I'm the most critically acclaimed

00:26:31act on

00:26:32I mean a lot of you

00:26:32won't have heard of me

00:26:33but I've got

00:26:34I've been called

00:26:34the world's greatest

00:26:35living stand-up

00:26:36by the Times

00:26:37and of course

00:26:37they were getting

00:26:38they hated it

00:26:39those people

00:26:39they didn't know who I was

00:26:40and I was lecturing

00:26:40and I was going

00:26:41can this be sorted out

00:26:42you know

00:26:43it's such a wrong thing

00:26:44to do at the Royal Albert Hall

00:26:45to complain about technology

00:26:46and then I thought

00:26:47oh I've misjudged this

00:26:48it's not my crowd

00:26:49they don't know who I am

00:26:50they think something's gone wrong

00:26:52they think I'm

00:26:53being arrogant

00:26:54and snagging everyone off

00:26:54so I had to just

00:26:56dig down on it

00:26:57you kept going

00:26:58kept going

00:26:59and then

00:26:59did you start calling them

00:27:01a bunch of morons

00:27:01probably yeah

00:27:02I can't remember

00:27:03it was like

00:27:04I was above

00:27:05watching myself

00:27:06in this place

00:27:08objectively

00:27:08it was bad comedy

00:27:10as it didn't work

00:27:11but

00:27:13from another position

00:27:14it was one of the best things

00:27:15I've ever done

00:27:16because that's what

00:27:17would happen to him

00:27:18if he went there

00:27:19and did that

00:27:19and then when I came off

00:27:20Sean Walsh

00:27:21God bless him

00:27:22was on his knees

00:27:24the comedian

00:27:24laughing his head off

00:27:26and going like that

00:27:26because he understood

00:27:27the decision that I'd made

00:27:29to make something of it

00:27:31you know

00:27:32I'm doing it again

00:27:33how did that feel though

00:27:34for you

00:27:34actually

00:27:35majestic

00:27:37mortifying

00:27:37again when I was on

00:27:38no problem

00:27:39right what I said

00:27:40about the feeling of

00:27:41utter safety

00:27:42yeah

00:27:42because he would do that

00:27:44so he did it

00:27:44but when I came off

00:27:46you know

00:27:47if you nearly have a car accident

00:27:48and you just about

00:27:50get out

00:27:50you're jittery

00:27:51yeah

00:27:51whoa

00:27:52came to pieces afterwards

00:27:53it was terrible

00:27:55really

00:27:55yeah

00:27:56I felt absolutely

00:27:57I felt like I'd just

00:27:59gone to silence

00:27:59in front of 4,000 people

00:28:01at the Royal Albert Hall

00:28:01which is what I'd done

00:28:03or maybe more

00:28:03so I'm doing it again

00:28:05actually in March

00:28:05with what Robert Smith

00:28:06from the Cure

00:28:07has curated it

00:28:07and I'm in a much better

00:28:09I'm on a bill

00:28:10where it'll be fine

00:28:12I'm really looking forward

00:28:13to that

00:28:14so great

00:28:14but it's interesting

00:28:16that it did affect you

00:28:17afterwards

00:28:17yeah

00:28:18but not during

00:28:19no

00:28:19but afterwards

00:28:20yeah afterwards

00:28:21but during

00:28:22because

00:28:22because you were back

00:28:23to normal Stuart

00:28:25and normal Stuart cares

00:28:27yeah

00:28:27well which is a good segue

00:28:28into

00:28:29so what did normal Stuart

00:28:30feel about

00:28:31comedy Stuart

00:28:32being so rude

00:28:34about James Corden

00:28:35I feel

00:28:36I feel sorry

00:28:38that he might be upset

00:28:38about it

00:28:39but I think

00:28:39but if he really liked me

00:28:41as much as he said

00:28:42he would have understood

00:28:43why that had to happen

00:28:45you know

00:28:45another thing that I did

00:28:46was in between

00:28:47they were always reluctant

00:28:48to recommission

00:28:50comedy vehicle

00:28:51even though it was

00:28:52winning BAFTAs

00:28:52this was your BBC 2

00:28:54show that you got

00:28:55in 2008

00:28:57something like that

00:28:58yeah 7-8

00:28:58and I mean

00:29:00in between

00:29:00one series

00:29:01maybe series 2

00:29:02or series 3

00:29:03somebody said

00:29:04look the problem is

00:29:04you're not a personality

00:29:05you're not on other things

00:29:06we need you to do more stuff

00:29:08do panel shows

00:29:09yeah they said

00:29:09well maybe

00:29:10so I'm not doing panel shows

00:29:11the bloke goes

00:29:12well maybe you could present

00:29:13the culture show

00:29:15and so I wrote a routine

00:29:16about why I

00:29:17not only why I would not

00:29:18present the culture show

00:29:19but why the culture show

00:29:21should be about me

00:29:22every week

00:29:22because I've done operas

00:29:23and all sorts of things

00:29:24it should just be a programme

00:29:25about how I embody

00:29:26culture

00:29:27so I kind of

00:29:28burnt my bridges

00:29:29for that

00:29:30completely

00:29:30I didn't want to

00:29:32do the culture show

00:29:33but the Stuart Lee

00:29:35would be offended

00:29:36that he should be

00:29:37and he would also

00:29:38think the culture show

00:29:39was lowbrow shit

00:29:40he would think

00:29:41it was not even

00:29:42do you think that

00:29:43no it's alright

00:29:44you know

00:29:45it's not on anymore

00:29:46anyway is it

00:29:47but everything

00:29:48all the things

00:29:49that we moaned about

00:29:49and now everything's

00:29:51so terrible

00:29:52that you look back

00:29:53you think wow

00:29:54it's gone

00:29:54and never coming back

00:29:56no

00:29:57I enjoyed

00:29:58but you know what else

00:29:59though

00:29:59I really love

00:30:00comedy

00:30:01and I watch

00:30:02loads of it

00:30:03and I

00:30:03so the people

00:30:05that I admire

00:30:06enormously

00:30:06outweigh the tiny

00:30:08minority

00:30:08that irritate me

00:30:09and even those

00:30:10people

00:30:11when push comes

00:30:12to shove

00:30:12like when

00:30:13Farage this week

00:30:14was saying

00:30:16that he's the same

00:30:16as Bernard Manning

00:30:17he's going

00:30:18you know

00:30:18it's just a joke

00:30:19well we should

00:30:20help people out

00:30:21okay

00:30:21Nigel Farage

00:30:22has allegedly

00:30:23made

00:30:24anti-semitic

00:30:25and racist

00:30:25comments

00:30:26as a teenager

00:30:27at school

00:30:28and there's an

00:30:2918 year old

00:30:29at school

00:30:30and his justification

00:30:31when somebody

00:30:32from ITV News

00:30:33tried to pick him

00:30:34up on it

00:30:34was that ITV

00:30:35had Bernard Manning

00:30:36on in the 70s

00:30:37which it did

00:30:38and we should also

00:30:39say it wasn't

00:30:39just one or two

00:30:40people

00:30:40I think it was

00:30:4020

00:30:41getting on for

00:30:4230 people

00:30:43who were students

00:30:44pupils alongside him

00:30:45have recollections

00:30:47of feeling

00:30:48of some pretty

00:30:49full on stuff

00:30:50and I thought

00:30:51well

00:30:51it's not the same

00:30:52as Bernard Manning

00:30:53because Bernard Manning

00:30:54didn't go to

00:30:55Jewish people

00:30:57Hitler was right

00:30:58and then make

00:30:59the sound

00:30:59of a gas chamber

00:31:00right

00:31:00and also

00:31:01Bernard Manning

00:31:03whether you

00:31:04like him or not

00:31:05he operates

00:31:06in the magic circle

00:31:08protected space

00:31:09of the theatre

00:31:09you know

00:31:10and people have

00:31:11kind of made

00:31:12a choice

00:31:12to go in there

00:31:13whereas it's

00:31:14not the same

00:31:14as Nigel Farage

00:31:16allegedly

00:31:17saying to

00:31:17a black student

00:31:19what country

00:31:20are your family

00:31:21from

00:31:21there's the way

00:31:22back

00:31:22in fact

00:31:23if Bernard Manning

00:31:24did that on stage

00:31:25it would be quite

00:31:25funny

00:31:26he'd go

00:31:26where are you

00:31:27from mate

00:31:27well that's the door

00:31:29you know

00:31:29you can sort of see

00:31:30how that would work

00:31:32so I obviously

00:31:33don't like

00:31:34Bernard Manning

00:31:34but I'm not going

00:31:35to have a member

00:31:36of the public

00:31:36I'm not going

00:31:37to have a non-comedian

00:31:39misrepresent him

00:31:41do you not

00:31:42so you don't

00:31:43really care

00:31:44that much

00:31:46you're willing

00:31:47to sail close

00:31:47to the wind

00:31:48on putting people

00:31:49out there

00:31:50I don't want

00:31:50to make too much

00:31:51of this

00:31:51but it always

00:31:52strikes me

00:31:53that you're

00:31:55you've got an appetite

00:31:56is it a thick skin

00:31:57or is it

00:31:58you've got an appetite

00:31:58to

00:32:00look

00:32:01I don't know

00:32:01why it's such

00:32:02a big deal

00:32:03you know

00:32:03I mean

00:32:04I saw

00:32:05Russell Howard

00:32:06on telly

00:32:06doing a joke

00:32:07about how

00:32:08that old lady

00:32:09that won

00:32:09Britain's Got Talent

00:32:10Susan Boyle

00:32:11was ugly

00:32:12yeah

00:32:13I thought

00:32:13well

00:32:14that's not on

00:32:15really

00:32:15coming from

00:32:16a man

00:32:17who spends

00:32:17all his life

00:32:17in a gym

00:32:18I just thought

00:32:18it was kind of

00:32:19so all those

00:32:20people

00:32:20have a go

00:32:21at people

00:32:21they have a go

00:32:22at harmless

00:32:24celebrities

00:32:25or people

00:32:26they consider

00:32:26naff in some

00:32:27way

00:32:27you know

00:32:28and I'm

00:32:29I'm not interested

00:32:30in that world

00:32:31I'm not interested

00:32:31I don't even know

00:32:32who those people are

00:32:32I'm interested

00:32:33in politics

00:32:34and comedy

00:32:34mainly

00:32:35my stand-up

00:32:37is about

00:32:37a stand-up comedian

00:32:38who's trying

00:32:39to do shows

00:32:41there's no

00:32:43artifice

00:32:43in that way

00:32:44whereas

00:32:45someone like

00:32:45Lee Mack

00:32:46who's very good

00:32:46comes out

00:32:47and he talks

00:32:48about everyday

00:32:48life

00:32:49he's like

00:32:49your friend

00:32:50who's somehow

00:32:50on stage

00:32:51you know

00:32:52whereas

00:32:52I'm not your

00:32:53friend

00:32:54and I'm not

00:32:54pretending to be

00:32:55I'm a bloke

00:32:57who's a comedian

00:32:58who feels a bit

00:32:59hard done by

00:32:59and is on tour

00:33:01all the time

00:33:02and talks about

00:33:04putting the shows

00:33:05together

00:33:05and the business

00:33:07of that

00:33:08a lot of the times

00:33:09that's why

00:33:10the jokes

00:33:11are about

00:33:12those people

00:33:12because that's

00:33:14his world

00:33:17I've read

00:33:18your book

00:33:18which I thought

00:33:19was really

00:33:19interesting

00:33:20you're a

00:33:20terrific writer

00:33:20which one

00:33:21was that

00:33:22how I

00:33:23escaped

00:33:23that

00:33:23well it's

00:33:24very kind

00:33:25of you

00:33:25I'm very

00:33:26proud of

00:33:27that book

00:33:28I liked

00:33:28Dave Allen

00:33:29as a kid

00:33:30and a book

00:33:31came out

00:33:31about Dave

00:33:32Allen

00:33:32and I wanted

00:33:33to read it

00:33:33and it was

00:33:34all about

00:33:35Dave Allen's

00:33:35life and

00:33:36playing golf

00:33:36and whatever

00:33:37and there

00:33:37was nothing

00:33:37about how

00:33:39he developed

00:33:39material

00:33:40and I thought

00:33:41well I want

00:33:42to read

00:33:42a book

00:33:43about a

00:33:43comedian

00:33:43it's not

00:33:44about their

00:33:45celebrity

00:33:45but it's

00:33:46about their

00:33:46process

00:33:47so I thought

00:33:48well I'll

00:33:48write that

00:33:48book

00:33:49it's very

00:33:49much that

00:33:50and also

00:33:50it's about

00:33:50an eight

00:33:51year

00:33:52climacteric

00:33:52if I can

00:33:52use that

00:33:53word

00:33:53in which

00:33:54you

00:33:55kind of

00:33:55have a

00:33:56crisis

00:33:57based on

00:33:59not doing

00:34:00very well

00:34:00on stage

00:34:00for various

00:34:01reasons

00:34:01being

00:34:02heckled

00:34:03and then

00:34:03a drunk

00:34:03you handle

00:34:04a heckler

00:34:05by getting

00:34:06the drunk

00:34:06heckler

00:34:06to get

00:34:06on stage

00:34:07and then

00:34:07you're

00:34:08made to

00:34:08be in

00:34:09the wrong

00:34:09and you're

00:34:09like the

00:34:09audiences

00:34:10are dwindling

00:34:10for obscure

00:34:11reasons

00:34:12I couldn't

00:34:12make a living

00:34:13either because

00:34:13I was with

00:34:13Avalon and

00:34:14it was

00:34:14difficult

00:34:15because the

00:34:16economics of

00:34:17their touring

00:34:18models were

00:34:19not very good

00:34:20you put Avalon

00:34:21out there

00:34:21you're quite

00:34:21careful not to

00:34:22name them in

00:34:23the book

00:34:23you make them

00:34:24sound pretty

00:34:24horrendous

00:34:26Christmas parties

00:34:26with dwarves

00:34:27running around

00:34:28carrying drinks

00:34:29on their heads

00:34:29or something

00:34:31I mean who

00:34:31does that

00:34:32what a

00:34:33tasteless thing

00:34:33to do

00:34:34although the

00:34:34dwarves like

00:34:35it you know

00:34:35because it's

00:34:36seasonal work

00:34:37that's what

00:34:38they say

00:34:38I asked the

00:34:38guy do you

00:34:39like doing

00:34:39this

00:34:39he went

00:34:40we're seasonal

00:34:41workers

00:34:41he said

00:34:43and then it

00:34:43follows you

00:34:44through your

00:34:45famous Jerry

00:34:46Springer

00:34:46award winning

00:34:47Jerry Springer

00:34:47the opera

00:34:48we have to

00:34:48always mention

00:34:49that was the

00:34:50idea of the

00:34:50composer Richard

00:34:51Thomas who

00:34:52did the

00:34:52majority of

00:34:52the creative

00:34:53work on it

00:34:53and the

00:34:54concept was

00:34:55already up

00:34:56and running

00:34:56when I came

00:34:57in I tried

00:34:57to plot it

00:34:58into something

00:34:59really

00:34:59it won an

00:35:01Olivier

00:35:01it was going

00:35:02to transfer

00:35:02to Broadway

00:35:03it was derailed

00:35:04by an

00:35:05orchestrated

00:35:06but I think

00:35:07nonetheless

00:35:07sincere

00:35:08campaign by

00:35:09Christian evangelists

00:35:10who found it

00:35:11deeply offensive

00:35:12but I had an

00:35:13amazing thing

00:35:14on tour

00:35:14and I hope

00:35:15she won't

00:35:15mind me

00:35:15talking about

00:35:16this

00:35:16but his

00:35:18family

00:35:18the family

00:35:19of Stephen

00:35:19Green who

00:35:20led the

00:35:20campaign

00:35:20against

00:35:22Jerry Springer

00:35:22the opera

00:35:23Stephen Green's

00:35:23also actually

00:35:24one of the

00:35:24people that

00:35:25the Tufton

00:35:25Street

00:35:26AstroTurf

00:35:26pressure group

00:35:27Restore Trust

00:35:28have tried to

00:35:29put onto the

00:35:30board of the

00:35:30National Trust

00:35:31because they

00:35:32think it's

00:35:32got too

00:35:33woke

00:35:33and he's

00:35:35a man who

00:35:35believes it's

00:35:36not possible

00:35:36for a man

00:35:36to rape his

00:35:37wife

00:35:37anyway

00:35:39I was doing

00:35:39a gig

00:35:39on this

00:35:40tour

00:35:40and his

00:35:41daughter

00:35:41came up

00:35:42at the

00:35:42end

00:35:42and introduced

00:35:42herself

00:35:43and it was

00:35:44one of the

00:35:44most overwhelming

00:35:47things that has

00:35:48happened to me

00:35:51to meet her

00:35:51it's making you a bit

00:35:52emotional thinking about it

00:35:53yeah it was

00:35:54because you know

00:35:56we put years of work

00:35:57into that show

00:35:58and at the point

00:36:00where it should have

00:36:02settled into a viable

00:36:04thing it was stopped

00:36:06largely by him

00:36:09and it was so

00:36:11great to see her

00:36:13and I was really

00:36:16not for six by it

00:36:17and I thought it was

00:36:17very brave of her

00:36:18to come and say

00:36:19hello

00:36:20so yeah it was

00:36:21great

00:36:22you appreciated it

00:36:23yeah

00:36:23the issue for them

00:36:24was that Jesus is

00:36:26depicted in a cheeky

00:36:28way in the

00:36:28well he wasn't

00:36:30really

00:36:30I mean

00:36:30I remember seeing it

00:36:32he's wearing a nappy

00:36:32well he wasn't wearing

00:36:33a nappy

00:36:33he's wearing a lungi

00:36:34in the first half

00:36:35okay

00:36:36basically

00:36:37my contribution

00:36:38to the opera

00:36:39was to copy the plot

00:36:40of The Wizard of Oz

00:36:42whereby

00:36:43if you remember

00:36:44in The Wizard of Oz

00:36:44all the people

00:36:45that Dorothy meets

00:36:47in her everyday life

00:36:50re-emerge

00:36:50as fantasy caricatures

00:36:52of themselves

00:36:52that's right

00:36:53in the dream sequence

00:36:54which is the journey

00:36:55to Oz

00:36:55that's right

00:36:56so all the people

00:36:57that Jerry Springer

00:36:57met in the first half

00:36:59re-emerge in the second half

00:37:01in the fever dream

00:37:02that he has in the moment

00:37:03between being shot

00:37:04and dying

00:37:04they re-emerge as

00:37:07analogous religious figures

00:37:08whose stories in the first half

00:37:12that the squabbling couple

00:37:13come back as Adam and Eve

00:37:14the sort of father figure

00:37:17bigamist bloke

00:37:18comes back as God

00:37:19the man who in the first half

00:37:21was wearing a nappy

00:37:22because he was a coprophiliac

00:37:23comes back as Jesus

00:37:24in a loincloth

00:37:26like Jesus wears

00:37:27in all the paintings of Jesus

00:37:29he is specifically

00:37:30not in a nappy

00:37:32it's like a nappy

00:37:33and that's why

00:37:34he thinks of it

00:37:36because he's in a nappy

00:37:37in the first half

00:37:37and Jesus

00:37:38the most famous images

00:37:39of Jesus

00:37:40are all those

00:37:40like crucifixion paintings

00:37:42where he's in a loincloth

00:37:43so that's why

00:37:44that was that

00:37:45and it wasn't a nappy

00:37:46it was a loincloth

00:37:46but the story became

00:37:47it was a nappy

00:37:48but also with Stephen Green

00:37:49there was a very specific agenda

00:37:50which is that

00:37:51you wouldn't have done this

00:37:53about another religion

00:37:55specifically Islam

00:37:56and actually

00:37:57you wouldn't have done

00:37:57now the reason

00:37:58I wouldn't have done it

00:37:58about Islam

00:38:00was that

00:38:01you wanted something

00:38:02that was commonly understood

00:38:04right

00:38:05and in the west

00:38:06whether it's

00:38:08Milton

00:38:08or

00:38:10Nick Cave

00:38:11a commonly understood

00:38:13trope

00:38:14is the Christian religion

00:38:15it's a commonly understood

00:38:16thing where you can

00:38:17you can use

00:38:18elements of those stories

00:38:19to tell a story

00:38:20Islam's not commonly understood

00:38:21of course

00:38:22what became immediately clear

00:38:23sometime later

00:38:24is another reason

00:38:24you wouldn't have done it

00:38:25about Islam

00:38:25is because

00:38:27some supporters

00:38:28of that religion

00:38:28would have taken

00:38:30violent retribution

00:38:31on any representation

00:38:32of it

00:38:32although

00:38:33I think

00:38:34the South Park

00:38:35depiction of Muhammad

00:38:36is still knocking

00:38:37about somewhere

00:38:37but they had

00:38:39the people

00:38:40surrounding Christian Voice

00:38:41had a whole

00:38:42rag bag of things

00:38:43they were homophobic

00:38:45that was Stephen Green's

00:38:45outfit

00:38:46is he still knocking around

00:38:49well he is

00:38:49I mean Tufton Street

00:38:50tried to get him

00:38:50on the board

00:38:51of the National Trust

00:38:51three years ago

00:38:52so he's still

00:38:53knocking around

00:38:53the Daily Mail

00:38:54always used to

00:38:55reel him out

00:38:55for a quote

00:38:56and they stopped

00:38:57I think he got a bit

00:38:58too hot for them

00:38:59you know

00:38:59so when it

00:39:00it showed on BBC

00:39:02right

00:39:03yeah that was

00:39:03what caused

00:39:04all the trouble

00:39:04really

00:39:05it was the most

00:39:05complained about

00:39:07transmission

00:39:08in history

00:39:09yeah

00:39:09but again

00:39:10it's kind of

00:39:11meaningless

00:39:11because

00:39:14the internet

00:39:14was starting

00:39:15so it was easy

00:39:16to mobilise

00:39:17complaints

00:39:17and most of the

00:39:19people that complained

00:39:19about it

00:39:19wouldn't have seen it

00:39:20so it's kind of

00:39:21it was 50,000

00:39:22I think it was

00:39:2360,000

00:39:23it almost felt

00:39:24imitative

00:39:25like at the time

00:39:26it was a bit like

00:39:26well if radical

00:39:28Islam can go around

00:39:30mixing things up

00:39:31intimidating people

00:39:33we're going to

00:39:34we're going to

00:39:35show them

00:39:35what we can do

00:39:36that's what

00:39:36Stephen Green said

00:39:38he said

00:39:39the Muslims have

00:39:40stolen a march

00:39:41on us

00:39:41he said

00:39:42that was his quote

00:39:42he felt that

00:39:44in the economy

00:39:45of offence

00:39:46they were being

00:39:47outperformed

00:39:47by other religions

00:39:50Muslims have

00:39:51stolen a march

00:39:52not the economy

00:39:52of offence

00:39:53no

00:39:53it was like that

00:39:54it's like

00:39:54well why can't

00:39:55why can't they

00:39:55do cartoons

00:39:56of Jesus

00:39:56yeah

00:39:58well I think

00:39:58it's different

00:39:59it is slightly

00:40:00different

00:40:00because there's

00:40:01not a tradition

00:40:02of depicting

00:40:03Muhammad

00:40:04as I understand

00:40:05it

00:40:05and also

00:40:05even within

00:40:07the Christian

00:40:07faith

00:40:08if you think

00:40:09of the mystery

00:40:09plays from

00:40:10the middle

00:40:10ages

00:40:11there were

00:40:12fairly robust

00:40:13depictions

00:40:13of Christian

00:40:14religious figures

00:40:15in those

00:40:15that were used

00:40:16to do social

00:40:19satire about

00:40:19contemporary issues

00:40:20of the times

00:40:21I think they've

00:40:21always been

00:40:21kind of quite

00:40:23flexible to us

00:40:24as artists

00:40:25and writers

00:40:25in Christian

00:40:27cultures

00:40:27we've always

00:40:28been able to

00:40:29play a little bit

00:40:30fast and loose

00:40:30with them

00:40:31to tell other

00:40:32sorts of stories

00:40:33but they're not

00:40:34that useful anymore

00:40:35unfortunately

00:40:36because most

00:40:38people don't

00:40:39really know

00:40:40anything about

00:40:41the Christian

00:40:42religion anymore

00:40:43and there are

00:40:44some good things

00:40:45about that

00:40:46you can't

00:40:47necessarily use

00:40:48it to win

00:40:48a moral argument

00:40:49in the way

00:40:50it used to be

00:40:50enough to just

00:40:51say the Bible

00:40:52would say

00:40:53don't do that

00:40:53but what it

00:40:54does mean

00:40:55is there isn't

00:40:55a framework

00:40:56for telling

00:40:57stories

00:40:57which I think

00:40:58is a shame

00:40:58that it's

00:40:58gone in that

00:40:59way

00:40:59or for

00:41:00understanding

00:41:01you can't

00:41:02understand

00:41:02the greats

00:41:03of Blake

00:41:04and Milton

00:41:05you can't

00:41:07understand that

00:41:07without

00:41:09initially knowing

00:41:09your way around

00:41:10the Christian

00:41:11religion

00:41:11you have to

00:41:12so I think

00:41:13other things

00:41:14will start to

00:41:15fade into

00:41:16meaninglessness

00:41:17because we

00:41:18don't really

00:41:19understand that

00:41:20I also think

00:41:20it means a lot

00:41:21of people

00:41:21are offended

00:41:22by things

00:41:23without really

00:41:23understanding

00:41:24them

00:41:24I mean

00:41:24Tommy Robinson

00:41:26is telling

00:41:27the Church

00:41:27of England

00:41:27they need

00:41:28to put

00:41:28the Christ

00:41:28back into

00:41:29Christmas

00:41:30so it

00:41:31basically means

00:41:32the religion

00:41:32is misunderstood

00:41:33enough to be

00:41:34appropriated

00:41:35by the far

00:41:36right

00:41:37so

00:41:38they're in it

00:41:38I hadn't

00:41:39seen that

00:41:40put the Christ

00:41:40back into

00:41:41Christmas

00:41:44is this the

00:41:46sort of thing

00:41:46you talk about

00:41:47normally

00:41:47how are you

00:41:49talking about

00:41:49personal stuff

00:41:50well I don't

00:41:52like to do that

00:41:53really

00:41:53because I think

00:41:54personal stuff

00:41:54invariably

00:41:55involves other

00:41:56people

00:41:57and those other

00:41:58people haven't

00:41:58necessarily consented

00:41:59to be a bit

00:42:01player in your

00:42:02self-indulgent

00:42:02psychodrama

00:42:03so there's a

00:42:05couple of things

00:42:06bubbling under

00:42:09that I would

00:42:09do a show

00:42:10about at

00:42:10some point

00:42:11go on

00:42:12well

00:42:14the one I

00:42:14can't possibly

00:42:15talk about

00:42:16until I've got

00:42:16everything in

00:42:17line

00:42:19and then

00:42:20a lot

00:42:21has come up

00:42:22about being

00:42:22adopted

00:42:23lately

00:42:24but I

00:42:26think I

00:42:27should do a

00:42:27show about

00:42:27that

00:42:28Dara O'Brien

00:42:28has done

00:42:29two shows

00:42:29about being

00:42:30adopted

00:42:30so what I

00:42:31might do

00:42:31is a show

00:42:32about Dara

00:42:33O'Brien

00:42:33being adopted

00:42:34I thought

00:42:35that would

00:42:35be quite a

00:42:35funny way

00:42:36of doing it

00:42:36sounds like

00:42:36you're avoiding

00:42:37something

00:42:39I remember

00:42:40when I read

00:42:40your book

00:42:41I was like

00:42:41this is

00:42:41great

00:42:42but I

00:42:42also thought

00:42:42there was

00:42:43a reference

00:42:43to you

00:42:43being adopted

00:42:44I thought

00:42:44that's

00:42:44really

00:42:44interesting

00:42:46you also

00:42:47then later

00:42:47on I read

00:42:48that it was

00:42:48the first

00:42:48two years

00:42:49of your

00:42:49life

00:42:50you were

00:42:50in care

00:42:53so we

00:42:54don't know

00:42:54you don't

00:42:55know anything

00:42:55about that

00:42:55you don't

00:42:56obviously

00:42:56remember that

00:42:57you were

00:42:57adopted

00:42:59why it

00:43:00sort of

00:43:01come up

00:43:01is

00:43:03when

00:43:04Bridget

00:43:05my wife

00:43:06was

00:43:06pregnant

00:43:07which

00:43:08is

00:43:0819

00:43:09years

00:43:09ago

00:43:09now

00:43:10I

00:43:10thought

00:43:10it's

00:43:11quite

00:43:11hard

00:43:11being

00:43:12pregnant

00:43:12I

00:43:12should

00:43:12say

00:43:13ex-wife

00:43:13yeah

00:43:13we are

00:43:16the paperwork

00:43:17is about to go

00:43:17through

00:43:18but we're

00:43:18on reasonable

00:43:19terms

00:43:20but in

00:43:20fact

00:43:21I'm

00:43:21on the

00:43:22royal

00:43:22apple

00:43:23we're

00:43:24on the

00:43:24same

00:43:24she's

00:43:24a comedian

00:43:24as well

00:43:25yeah

00:43:25she's

00:43:26very good

00:43:26but

00:43:29I thought

00:43:29well it's

00:43:30difficult

00:43:30being pregnant

00:43:31I expect

00:43:31it was quite

00:43:32a big deal

00:43:33for my

00:43:33mother

00:43:34which I'd

00:43:34never

00:43:35thought of

00:43:35so I

00:43:36thought

00:43:36I should

00:43:37find her

00:43:38and tell

00:43:38her that

00:43:38I'm

00:43:38alright

00:43:39because I

00:43:40imagine

00:43:40if you'd

00:43:41gone through

00:43:42nine months

00:43:42of a

00:43:42pregnancy

00:43:43you'd

00:43:43never

00:43:43forget

00:43:44that

00:43:44I

00:43:44really

00:43:45hadn't

00:43:45given it

00:43:45much

00:43:45thought

00:43:46to be

00:43:46honest

00:43:46so growing

00:43:47up you

00:43:47weren't

00:43:47massively

00:43:48preoccupied

00:43:49no not

00:43:49at all

00:43:49who your

00:43:50birth parents

00:43:50were

00:43:51knew anything

00:43:52about them

00:43:52I had a

00:43:53form

00:43:54that my

00:43:54mum gave

00:43:55me when

00:43:55I was

00:43:55little

00:43:56which said

00:43:56some basic

00:43:58facts

00:43:58you had their

00:43:59names

00:43:59not names

00:44:00no

00:44:00did you

00:44:01know what

00:44:01they did

00:44:02I knew

00:44:03that my

00:44:03mother was

00:44:05a 19

00:44:05year old

00:44:06nursing

00:44:06student

00:44:07and my

00:44:07father was

00:44:08a 21

00:44:08year old

00:44:09trainee

00:44:10hotel

00:44:10manager

00:44:11although that

00:44:11turned out

00:44:11not to be

00:44:12the case

00:44:12and they

00:44:13weren't in

00:44:13a relationship

00:44:14maybe

00:44:14not really

00:44:14no

00:44:16and I

00:44:16knew what

00:44:17part of

00:44:17the country

00:44:17it was

00:44:18and I

00:44:19knew

00:44:20a lot

00:44:21more about

00:44:21the mother

00:44:22because the

00:44:23language of

00:44:23the time

00:44:2467

00:44:26is all

00:44:26the details

00:44:27of the

00:44:27father

00:44:27the form

00:44:28says

00:44:29details

00:44:29of

00:44:30putative

00:44:30father

00:44:31so the

00:44:32assumption

00:44:32there's a

00:44:32moral assumption

00:44:33that it's

00:44:33quite interesting

00:44:34that you don't

00:44:34even know

00:44:34who the

00:44:35father is

00:44:35really

00:44:37so

00:44:37eventually

00:44:38I ended

00:44:39up

00:44:40meeting

00:44:41various

00:44:41people

00:44:41that I'm

00:44:42related to

00:44:42and I

00:44:42have a

00:44:43very good

00:44:43relationship

00:44:44with my

00:44:44two

00:44:44half

00:44:44sisters

00:44:45now

00:44:45in fact

00:44:46I saw

00:44:46them last

00:44:47weekend

00:44:47and they

00:44:49persisted

00:44:50with me

00:44:52to become

00:44:54a part of

00:44:54my life

00:44:55I

00:44:57not very

00:44:58good at

00:44:59keeping up

00:45:00with people

00:45:01they were

00:45:02very determined

00:45:02about it

00:45:03and they're

00:45:04great

00:45:05so that

00:45:06was one

00:45:06that's sort

00:45:07of been

00:45:08around

00:45:08but then

00:45:09a few

00:45:09years ago

00:45:10about

00:45:1118 months

00:45:11ago

00:45:12I went

00:45:12to the

00:45:13GP

00:45:13about

00:45:13something

00:45:15and the

00:45:15GP

00:45:16decided

00:45:16that I

00:45:17should

00:45:17take

00:45:17advantage

00:45:18of a

00:45:19scheme

00:45:19where there

00:45:20was free

00:45:20therapy

00:45:21for people

00:45:22that had

00:45:22been

00:45:22in care

00:45:24sort of

00:45:25in that

00:45:25time

00:45:25because it

00:45:26was decided

00:45:27I think

00:45:28as a result

00:45:28of a

00:45:28class action

00:45:29by a

00:45:29group of

00:45:30women

00:45:30who thought

00:45:31that being

00:45:32put into

00:45:33the care

00:45:33of a

00:45:33non-regulated

00:45:34religious

00:45:34charity

00:45:35was not

00:45:35necessarily

00:45:36the best

00:45:37outcome

00:45:37for them

00:45:39there was

00:45:39six weeks

00:45:41of free

00:45:42therapy

00:45:42to discuss

00:45:44what effect

00:45:45coming into

00:45:46the world

00:45:46in that way

00:45:47at that time

00:45:47may have

00:45:47had

00:45:48and you

00:45:49know

00:45:49it's

00:45:50statistically

00:45:50provable

00:45:51that everybody

00:45:53that went

00:45:53through that

00:45:53has a

00:45:55higher

00:45:55parenthesis

00:45:56than normal

00:45:56towards certain

00:45:57states of mind

00:45:58or conditions

00:45:59or dependencies

00:46:00or whatever

00:46:00so it was

00:46:01interesting

00:46:03so you know

00:46:03eventually

00:46:04I'll write

00:46:05something about

00:46:05that but

00:46:06what I don't

00:46:06want to do

00:46:07is I

00:46:08would like

00:46:09to sort

00:46:09of make

00:46:09it a

00:46:10kind of

00:46:10a parody

00:46:10of those

00:46:13here's my

00:46:13story

00:46:14feel my

00:46:14pain

00:46:14kind of

00:46:15shows

00:46:15but it

00:46:16won't be

00:46:16for a

00:46:17while

00:46:17because the

00:46:17next show

00:46:192028

00:46:21which I

00:46:21will tour

00:46:22between my

00:46:22daughters

00:46:23GCSEs

00:46:23and hopefully

00:46:24her A-levels

00:46:25is going to be

00:46:26very specifically

00:46:26about nationalism

00:46:27I've got loads

00:46:28of ideas

00:46:28for it

00:46:29and I think

00:46:30I need to

00:46:30land it

00:46:31before Farage

00:46:31gets in

00:46:32in 2029

00:46:33you think

00:46:33Farage will

00:46:34get in

00:46:34at the moment

00:46:35yeah

00:46:35if there's a

00:46:36vote tomorrow

00:46:38how do you

00:46:38like Elon

00:46:39Musk

00:46:39well I

00:46:40think that

00:46:40if he was

00:46:41to disappear

00:46:42from public

00:46:43life

00:46:44it would be

00:46:45better for the

00:46:45world

00:46:46I think he's

00:46:46an absolutely

00:46:47unmitigated

00:46:47disaster

00:46:48and he's

00:46:49going to

00:46:49destabilise

00:46:50European

00:46:51democracies

00:46:53the speech

00:46:54the speech

00:46:54that he did

00:46:54in Trafalgar

00:46:55square

00:46:55was insane

00:46:56what was

00:46:56I didn't

00:46:57see that

00:46:57that was

00:46:57part of

00:46:58the Tommy

00:46:58Robinson

00:46:58mark

00:46:58it is

00:47:00coming

00:47:00and you

00:47:01will have

00:47:01to fight

00:47:02oh yeah

00:47:02he did

00:47:03he said

00:47:03you're going

00:47:03to have

00:47:03to fight

00:47:03to defend

00:47:04yourself

00:47:04he also

00:47:04made a

00:47:05I think

00:47:05it was

00:47:06elsewhere

00:47:06on a podcast

00:47:07maybe where

00:47:08he did

00:47:08the Tolkien

00:47:09bit

00:47:09did you see

00:47:10that

00:47:10where he

00:47:11was talking

00:47:11about

00:47:11the hobbits

00:47:13of

00:47:13what you're

00:47:14talking about

00:47:15he's actually

00:47:15his accent's

00:47:16different isn't

00:47:17because he's

00:47:17South African

00:47:17because the

00:47:18hobbits of

00:47:18Middle Earth

00:47:19had to defend

00:47:19themselves

00:47:20they needed

00:47:20strong men

00:47:21yeah

00:47:21although in

00:47:22some Scandinavian

00:47:23countries

00:47:23you know

00:47:24the Lord of

00:47:25the Rings

00:47:25is very popular

00:47:26with the far

00:47:27right

00:47:27they see it

00:47:27as a kind

00:47:28of you know

00:47:29creation myth

00:47:30for white

00:47:31Europe

00:47:31you know

00:47:32so it's

00:47:32an amazing

00:47:32thing

00:47:33I'm going

00:47:33to sound

00:47:33so crazy

00:47:35woke

00:47:35go on

00:47:36it always

00:47:36bothered me

00:47:37a bit

00:47:37that as a

00:47:39child of the

00:47:39Star Trek

00:47:40generation

00:47:40where they

00:47:41were always

00:47:41careful

00:47:41not to

00:47:43align

00:47:44racial types

00:47:45with ideological

00:47:46types

00:47:47whereas

00:47:48I'm not saying

00:47:49Tolkien was a

00:47:50fascist

00:47:50in fact he's

00:47:50on record as

00:47:51being an

00:47:52anti-Nazi

00:47:52but there's

00:47:53an inescapable

00:47:54there's good

00:47:55races and bad

00:47:56races in

00:47:56Middle Earth

00:47:57right

00:47:58and I've said

00:47:58this before

00:47:59on this show

00:47:59like humanise

00:48:00the orcs

00:48:01I made a joke

00:48:01out of it

00:48:02you know

00:48:02and actually

00:48:05maybe it's

00:48:05ridiculous

00:48:06but you can't

00:48:07help noticing

00:48:07that the orcs

00:48:09go around

00:48:09saying like

00:48:10you know

00:48:11mate's back

00:48:11on the menu

00:48:12boys

00:48:12and you

00:48:14never

00:48:14you know

00:48:14if Gene

00:48:15Roddenberry

00:48:16had been

00:48:17in charge

00:48:17of the

00:48:18Tolkien

00:48:19adaptations

00:48:19he would

00:48:20have

00:48:20like

00:48:21Lieutenant

00:48:21Worf

00:48:22in Next

00:48:22Generation

00:48:23they'd have

00:48:24been a good

00:48:24orc

00:48:24yeah

00:48:25and I know

00:48:25that probably

00:48:26would have

00:48:26made it

00:48:27maybe less

00:48:27interesting

00:48:28like oh so

00:48:28predictable

00:48:29maybe it's

00:48:30interesting

00:48:30more challenging

00:48:31certainly

00:48:32I love

00:48:32I do love

00:48:33that about

00:48:33Star Trek

00:48:34and I wonder

00:48:35people like

00:48:36Elon Musk

00:48:36will say

00:48:37or people

00:48:38like us

00:48:38we're woke

00:48:39liberal

00:48:39libtards

00:48:39whatever

00:48:40but we grew

00:48:41up in a time

00:48:42where the

00:48:42popular culture

00:48:43was liberal

00:48:43you know

00:48:43like the

00:48:44Star Trek

00:48:45like you say

00:48:46with Gene

00:48:46Roddenberry

00:48:46you know

00:48:47first interracial

00:48:47kiss on

00:48:48American television

00:48:49the empire

00:48:50that was

00:48:50thrusting out

00:48:51into the

00:48:51stars

00:48:51was very

00:48:52benign

00:48:53it wasn't

00:48:53exploitative

00:48:54of the

00:48:54people it

00:48:54met

00:48:55and then

00:48:56you know

00:48:56Marvel Comics

00:48:57I was thinking

00:48:57about it

00:48:58I love

00:48:58Marvel Comics

00:48:59in the 70s

00:48:59and they were

00:49:00written by

00:49:00working class

00:49:02Jewish

00:49:02autodidact

00:49:03anti-fascists

00:49:04and LSD

00:49:05taking hippie

00:49:06dropouts

00:49:07and their

00:49:07agenda was

00:49:08very progressive

00:49:09and it's

00:49:10really weird

00:49:11to think now

00:49:11that they're

00:49:12owned by

00:49:13those massive

00:49:15corporations

00:49:16that play

00:49:16lip service

00:49:17to Trump

00:49:17do you think

00:49:18I think maybe

00:49:19but well

00:49:19Disney

00:49:20I think

00:49:20Disney's

00:49:21not quite

00:49:21been that

00:49:22not quite

00:49:22in fact

00:49:23they got

00:49:23into a lot

00:49:24of shit

00:49:24with Ron

00:49:25DeSantis

00:49:25because they

00:49:26had like

00:49:26a special

00:49:27day for

00:49:28gay people

00:49:29I think

00:49:29and I

00:49:30don't know

00:49:30I think

00:49:30but either

00:49:31way

00:49:31if the guys

00:49:32that wrote

00:49:32Marvel Comics

00:49:33in the 70s

00:49:33were writing

00:49:33them now

00:49:34Spider-Man

00:49:35would be in

00:49:36Queens

00:49:36fighting the

00:49:37ICE agents

00:49:38to protect

00:49:39the immigrant

00:49:39community

00:49:40and Captain

00:49:41America

00:49:41would be

00:49:42would have

00:49:43hung up

00:49:43his shield

00:49:44like he did

00:49:44when Nixon

00:49:45was in

00:49:45and gone

00:49:46undercover

00:49:46you know

00:49:47that's what

00:49:48would be

00:49:48happening

00:49:48if those

00:49:50people

00:49:50were writing

00:49:51them now

00:49:51and they

00:49:52daren't do

00:49:52that

00:49:53what would

00:49:54you say

00:49:54because I

00:49:55think Elon

00:49:55Musk would

00:49:56say no

00:49:56you're the

00:49:57elitist

00:49:58you're attempting

00:49:59to piously

00:49:59preach to

00:50:00people

00:50:01instill in

00:50:02them

00:50:02these sort

00:50:04of regime

00:50:05values

00:50:06that don't

00:50:07reflect how

00:50:07people really

00:50:08want to live

00:50:09you know

00:50:09that populism

00:50:10is called

00:50:10populism

00:50:11because it

00:50:12reflects something

00:50:12about people

00:50:13right

00:50:14I'm pushing

00:50:15back on you

00:50:15what do you

00:50:16say to that

00:50:17like actually

00:50:17the sort of

00:50:19quote quote

00:50:19liberal

00:50:19establishments

00:50:20been guilty

00:50:21of

00:50:22kind of

00:50:23curating

00:50:24a slightly

00:50:24fake

00:50:25centrist

00:50:27woolly

00:50:29you know

00:50:29I'd say it's

00:50:30better than

00:50:31the alternative

00:50:31you know

00:50:32and also

00:50:33that it's not

00:50:33but that it

00:50:34doesn't reflect

00:50:34how people

00:50:35really are

00:50:35right

00:50:37the idea

00:50:38that there's

00:50:39a liberal

00:50:39establishment

00:50:40it may have

00:50:41been true

00:50:42in some areas

00:50:43of society

00:50:44but if we

00:50:44look at the

00:50:45whole of

00:50:46say Britain

00:50:46today

00:50:47the majority

00:50:48of the press

00:50:48is owned

00:50:49by billionaires

00:50:50with offshore

00:50:51accounts

00:50:51who have a

00:50:52particular interest

00:50:53from maintaining

00:50:54a right leaning

00:50:55status quo

00:50:57television stations

00:50:58but why is

00:50:59GB News

00:50:59even on

00:51:00if Ofcom

00:51:00was doing

00:51:01its job

00:51:01it wouldn't

00:51:02be on

00:51:02and it

00:51:02wouldn't have

00:51:04Farage being

00:51:05allowed to

00:51:05present a

00:51:06programme on

00:51:06it

00:51:07and the

00:51:08social media

00:51:08which is

00:51:09where the

00:51:09majority of

00:51:10people are

00:51:10getting their

00:51:10ideas from

00:51:11is skewed

00:51:12to the right

00:51:13and owned

00:51:13by people

00:51:13like Elon

00:51:14Musk

00:51:14so the idea

00:51:15that there's

00:51:15liberal values

00:51:16and liberal

00:51:17establishment

00:51:17are in

00:51:18massive retreat

00:51:18and if you

00:51:19take the

00:51:19states as

00:51:20the bellwether

00:51:21as the

00:51:22canary in

00:51:22the mine

00:51:23liberal arts

00:51:24establishments

00:51:25are being

00:51:25closed down

00:51:26universities

00:51:27are being

00:51:28hassled

00:51:29about what

00:51:29they can

00:51:29and can't

00:51:30teach

00:51:31with the

00:51:31threat of

00:51:31the withdrawal

00:51:32of funding

00:51:33for them

00:51:33freedom of

00:51:34speech is

00:51:34not being

00:51:35fact checked

00:51:35now a

00:51:36broadcaster

00:51:37has to be

00:51:38the BBC

00:51:39has to be

00:51:39fact checked

00:51:40when I do

00:51:41stuff on the BBC

00:51:41which I don't

00:51:42very often

00:51:43but all my

00:51:43jokes have to

00:51:44be fact checked

00:51:45I have to

00:51:46tweak them a

00:51:46little bit

00:51:46just to make

00:51:47sure that

00:51:47there's not

00:51:48a generalisation

00:51:49being made

00:51:49I can make

00:51:50an exaggeration

00:51:51in the punchline

00:51:51but the

00:51:52set up has

00:51:52to be

00:51:53factually

00:51:53accurate

00:51:53none of

00:51:54that applies

00:51:54to Joe

00:51:55Rogan

00:51:55on Spotify

00:51:56he's not

00:51:56fact checked

00:51:57he can say

00:51:57what he likes

00:51:58doesn't apply

00:51:59to anything

00:51:59on Twitter

00:51:59doesn't seem

00:52:00to apply

00:52:01to most

00:52:01American news

00:52:02outlets

00:52:02no one

00:52:03fact checks

00:52:03Trump

00:52:03about his

00:52:05claims to have

00:52:05ended 50 million

00:52:06wars or whatever

00:52:07it just goes on

00:52:09so they need to get

00:52:09rid of facts

00:52:10so the freedom of

00:52:11speech is about

00:52:12ideas

00:52:13it's not the same

00:52:13as just being able

00:52:14to say things

00:52:15that aren't true

00:52:16that are factually

00:52:17not true

00:52:18there aren't

00:52:19alternative facts

00:52:20there's alternative

00:52:21theories but there

00:52:22aren't alternative

00:52:22facts

00:52:24so we're in

00:52:24trouble

00:52:25you know

00:52:25did you think

00:52:27Trump didn't

00:52:28deserve that

00:52:29FIFA World

00:52:29Peace Award

00:52:30I think Trump

00:52:30deserved a

00:52:31FIFA World

00:52:32Peace Award

00:52:32I think that

00:52:33is the award

00:52:34that he deserves

00:52:37were you

00:52:38disappointed

00:52:39that Robbie

00:52:39Williams

00:52:39performed at

00:52:40the event

00:52:41I'm disappointed

00:52:42in Robbie

00:52:42Williams

00:52:43generally

00:52:44irrespective

00:52:45of the event

00:52:45Robbie Williams

00:52:46was brought

00:52:47to see me

00:52:47at the Soho

00:52:48Theatre

00:52:48about 20

00:52:49years ago

00:52:49by David

00:52:49Walliams

00:52:50what a night

00:52:51out that

00:52:51must have

00:52:52been

00:52:52and he

00:52:52left

00:52:53about 20

00:52:54minutes in

00:52:54which show

00:52:55was that

00:52:5590s comedian

00:52:56really early

00:52:57might have

00:52:57been

00:52:57yeah

00:52:57something like

00:52:58that

00:52:58and then

00:52:58the usher

00:52:59said oh

00:52:59are you

00:52:59leaving

00:53:00and he

00:53:00went yeah

00:53:00he said

00:53:01that bloke

00:53:02is so

00:53:03boring

00:53:03he should

00:53:04do the

00:53:05voiceover

00:53:05for relaxation

00:53:06tapes

00:53:07Robbie said

00:53:08that

00:53:08about you

00:53:09how do you

00:53:10know that

00:53:11because the

00:53:12usher told

00:53:12me

00:53:13that's funny

00:53:14yeah what

00:53:15mad bloke

00:53:16weird

00:53:17Elon's

00:53:18apparently a

00:53:18big fan

00:53:19of comedy

00:53:20he says he

00:53:21is but he

00:53:22doesn't understand

00:53:22it

00:53:22he loves

00:53:23Monty Python

00:53:23well he

00:53:24was explaining

00:53:25to Joe Rogan

00:53:25the other

00:53:26day

00:53:27what comedy

00:53:28is and

00:53:28comedy's

00:53:29purpose is to

00:53:30disrupt things

00:53:30apparently

00:53:31and actually

00:53:32the grok

00:53:34AI will

00:53:35explain to

00:53:36you why

00:53:36Elon Musk

00:53:37is a better

00:53:38comedian than

00:53:39Seinfeld

00:53:40and it's

00:53:41because

00:53:41Musk's

00:53:42memes

00:53:42disrupt

00:53:44social norms

00:53:45whereas

00:53:45Seinfeld

00:53:46is about

00:53:47commonly

00:53:47understood

00:53:48little

00:53:48truisms

00:53:49and so

00:53:49I think

00:53:50Musk

00:53:52knows

00:53:52on some

00:53:52level

00:53:52that

00:53:53humour

00:53:53is

00:53:53just

00:53:53not

00:53:54in

00:53:54his

00:53:54genes

00:53:54and you

00:53:55get

00:53:55with

00:53:55a lot

00:53:55of

00:53:55people

00:53:55on the

00:53:56far

00:53:56right

00:53:56it seems

00:53:57to be

00:53:58just something

00:53:58they can't

00:53:59really do

00:53:59they're not

00:54:00playful

00:54:00in that

00:54:01way

00:54:02so I think

00:54:02it becomes

00:54:03a sort of

00:54:04frustration

00:54:04to him

00:54:05that he

00:54:05just isn't

00:54:06that kind

00:54:06of person

00:54:07so he

00:54:07tries to

00:54:07talk a lot

00:54:08about how

00:54:09he is

00:54:09he was

00:54:09explaining to

00:54:10Joe Rogan

00:54:10the other

00:54:10day

00:54:10that he's

00:54:11invented

00:54:12an AI

00:54:12which will

00:54:13do

00:54:13roasts

00:54:14you know

00:54:14with the

00:54:15American

00:54:15tradition

00:54:15of the

00:54:16roast

00:54:16but this

00:54:17AI

00:54:17will

00:54:18come into

00:54:19a room

00:54:19and the

00:54:20AI

00:54:20will

00:54:20scan

00:54:21you

00:54:21and

00:54:21work

00:54:21out

00:54:21that

00:54:21you're

00:54:22bold

00:54:22or

00:54:22something

00:54:22and then

00:54:23it will

00:54:23start

00:54:24doing

00:54:24insults

00:54:25to you

00:54:25and you

00:54:25can set

00:54:26it

00:54:26Musk

00:54:26was

00:54:27explaining

00:54:27to

00:54:28different

00:54:28levels

00:54:29of

00:54:29vulgarity

00:54:29so he

00:54:31understands

00:54:32humour

00:54:33as a

00:54:33kind of

00:54:33system

00:54:34and he

00:54:34thinks

00:54:34its

00:54:34purpose

00:54:35is

00:54:35to

00:54:35cause

00:54:35offence

00:54:36and

00:54:36to

00:54:36disrupt

00:54:37and

00:54:37anything

00:54:38they all

00:54:38like

00:54:38this

00:54:39the tech

00:54:39guys

00:54:39it's

00:54:39all

00:54:39about

00:54:40disruption

00:54:40and

00:54:41shaking

00:54:42us

00:54:42out

00:54:42of

00:54:42our

00:54:42complacency

00:54:43so I

00:54:43don't

00:54:43think

00:54:43he

00:54:44really

00:54:44understands

00:54:44it

00:54:44I

00:54:45think

00:54:45on

00:54:45some

00:54:45level

00:54:45he

00:54:45understands

00:54:46that

00:54:46he

00:54:46doesn't

00:54:46understand

00:54:47it

00:54:47and that

00:54:48frustrates

00:54:48him

00:54:48so it's

00:54:49important for

00:54:50him to want

00:54:51to be seen

00:54:51as funny

00:54:52like calling

00:54:53the bloke

00:54:54that was

00:54:54trying to

00:54:54save those

00:54:55kids from

00:54:55the well

00:54:55from the

00:54:56cave

00:54:56a pedo

00:54:57it's just

00:54:58pointless

00:54:58that's just

00:54:59like their

00:55:00their

00:55:00pedo

00:55:01guy

00:55:01pedo

00:55:02guy

00:55:02it's just

00:55:03not something

00:55:03they're

00:55:05good at

00:55:05and the

00:55:05problem

00:55:06is with

00:55:10the best

00:55:11people

00:55:11are being

00:55:12shut out

00:55:12and the

00:55:13worst

00:55:13people

00:55:13are being

00:55:14brought

00:55:14through

00:55:15by him

00:55:15and Mark

00:55:16Maron's

00:55:16very good

00:55:16on this

00:55:17actually

00:55:17and he's

00:55:18probably

00:55:18made himself

00:55:18quite unpopular

00:55:20by systematically

00:55:21explaining

00:55:21what the

00:55:23problems are

00:55:23creatively

00:55:24of allowing

00:55:25Rogan to

00:55:26become a

00:55:26kind of

00:55:26gatekeeper

00:55:27for American

00:55:27comedy

00:55:28in the end

00:55:29it will

00:55:29go into

00:55:29a death

00:55:30spiral

00:55:30would you

00:55:31find

00:55:31Theo Vaughn

00:55:32funny

00:55:32don't know

00:55:33him

00:55:33what about

00:55:35Shane

00:55:35Gillis

00:55:36don't know

00:55:36him

00:55:37really

00:55:37no

00:55:38I'm not

00:55:38on the

00:55:39internet

00:55:39so a lot

00:55:40of things

00:55:41that are

00:55:41if they're

00:55:42if they've

00:55:42got a funny

00:55:4315 second

00:55:44bit on

00:55:44TikTok

00:55:44I don't

00:55:45even know

00:55:45how you

00:55:45get on

00:55:46that

00:55:46so

00:55:47Jimmy

00:55:48Carr

00:55:48says

00:55:48the

00:55:49audience

00:55:49is a

00:55:49genius

00:55:52I don't

00:55:53know what

00:55:53that means

00:55:55or why

00:55:55he would

00:55:55say it

00:55:56did he

00:55:57say that

00:55:57or did

00:55:57someone

00:55:57write it

00:55:58for him

00:55:58who

00:55:58knows

00:55:58you know

00:56:00burn

00:56:01noted

00:56:02because

00:56:03I've

00:56:03heard you

00:56:03say before

00:56:04like if

00:56:04comedians

00:56:05use

00:56:05writers

00:56:06do you

00:56:07regard that

00:56:07as a

00:56:07dereliction

00:56:09well

00:56:09look

00:56:11I'm old

00:56:11enough to

00:56:12remember when

00:56:12alternative comedy

00:56:13started I was a

00:56:14teenager you know

00:56:15and the idea was

00:56:17that the working men's club

00:56:19comics that we saw as stand-ups

00:56:21as kids

00:56:21had this common treasury

00:56:23of material

00:56:23which they were able to put

00:56:25an individual stamp on

00:56:27due to their regional

00:56:29differences

00:56:29and George Roper

00:56:31for example

00:56:32always mentioned

00:56:32Wellingtons in his jokes

00:56:33so he'd do the same joke

00:56:35as Bernard Manning

00:56:36but the main character

00:56:37would be in

00:56:37Wellingtons

00:56:38so they all had

00:56:38their own little

00:56:39but the great thing

00:56:40about alternative comedy

00:56:41was it was people

00:56:42were the authors

00:56:44of their own

00:56:44material

00:56:45and so I suppose

00:56:47why I was able

00:56:48to think I would

00:56:49want to do that

00:56:50is because they were

00:56:51like auteurs

00:56:51like writers

00:56:52as well as

00:56:53and I saw myself

00:56:54much more as a writer

00:56:55than a performer

00:56:56and in fact I tried

00:56:57to minimise the idea

00:56:58of performance

00:56:59for the first

00:56:5920 years of doing it

00:57:01I tried to not

00:57:01perform really

00:57:03so that was a really

00:57:04important part of it

00:57:05so I am

00:57:05a little part of me

00:57:07is always disappointed

00:57:08when I know people

00:57:09use writers

00:57:11sometimes you can

00:57:12sort of tell

00:57:12because I think

00:57:14at one point

00:57:14Frankie Boyle

00:57:15was using so many

00:57:15different writers

00:57:16that he didn't have

00:57:17a consistent tone

00:57:18of voice

00:57:19you know

00:57:19he would do

00:57:19some stuff

00:57:20that was what

00:57:21we would call

00:57:21woke or progressive

00:57:22and other stuff

00:57:23that was reactionary

00:57:24and it didn't always

00:57:25all fit together

00:57:26you know

00:57:28so I do think

00:57:29it is an important

00:57:30thing that people

00:57:31are writers

00:57:31but I'm aware

00:57:32that I'm from

00:57:33a different age

00:57:34I'm from a different

00:57:35age that doesn't

00:57:35exist anymore

00:57:36I think that's

00:57:37partly why people

00:57:38like to come

00:57:38and see me

00:57:39it's a bit like

00:57:40seeing some

00:57:40dying blues guy

00:57:41all of us

00:57:43of my age

00:57:45we saw

00:57:45Sean Hughes

00:57:46in 1990

00:57:47be the first

00:57:48kind of British

00:57:48or Irish comedian

00:57:49to put together

00:57:50an hour long show

00:57:51that had a through line

00:57:52may you rest in peace

00:57:53yeah

00:57:53and that was

00:57:55very inspiring

00:57:56then Kitson

00:57:56came along

00:57:57writing these

00:57:57Daniel Kitson

00:57:58things that were

00:57:59like one man

00:58:00plays

00:58:00but were still

00:58:02punchy and in your

00:58:02face like stand up

00:58:03and so we all

00:58:05aspired to make

00:58:07shows that were

00:58:08a finished piece

00:58:09you know

00:58:10and that's what

00:58:10every show of mine

00:58:13is a finished piece

00:58:15and it's quite

00:58:16difficult often

00:58:16to take bits out

00:58:17of it

00:58:18and do anything

00:58:18else with them

00:58:20whereas now

00:58:20people are trying

00:58:21to generate

00:58:21little bits

00:58:23and then when you

00:58:24see their shows

00:58:24there are a load

00:58:25of little bits

00:58:25stuck together

00:58:26they don't often

00:58:28and in fact

00:58:28some of the

00:58:29theatre managers

00:58:29have been saying

00:58:30this to me

00:58:30on this tour

00:58:31they go

00:58:31that was really

00:58:31refreshing

00:58:33to see a finished

00:58:34work

00:58:34because we get

00:58:35these people

00:58:35coming and

00:58:36it's just

00:58:36lots of bits

00:58:36there's lots

00:58:37of bits

00:58:37for 50 minutes

00:58:38and then it

00:58:39stops

00:58:39you know

00:58:40so

00:58:40but that

00:58:41is from

00:58:42the past

00:58:42it's not

00:58:43going to be

00:58:44the way

00:58:44that people

00:58:45write comedy

00:58:46in the future

00:58:46it was a kind

00:58:47of little blip

00:58:47because people

00:58:49are generating

00:58:49those little bits

00:58:50people see them

00:58:50in little bits

00:58:51so I think

00:58:52the idea

00:58:52of the comedian

00:58:53as an auteur

00:58:55as the author

00:58:56of their own

00:58:56thing

00:58:57it's probably

00:58:58not as important

00:58:59to people

00:59:00as it used

00:59:00to be

00:59:01but it was

00:59:01important to me

00:59:02and it made

00:59:03me feel

00:59:04one thing

00:59:05I share

00:59:05with the character

00:59:06of Stuart Lee

00:59:07is I'm a kind

00:59:08of intellectual

00:59:08snob

00:59:09and I think

00:59:10I wanted to feel

00:59:11that I was

00:59:11working

00:59:11in a valid

00:59:13art form

00:59:13that's why

00:59:14I ended up

00:59:15going

00:59:16to the

00:59:16south west

00:59:17of America

00:59:18to the deserts

00:59:19and trying

00:59:20to see

00:59:20the Native

00:59:21American clowns

00:59:22in Taos

00:59:23or the Hopi

00:59:24reservation

00:59:25because

00:59:25I wanted

00:59:27to see

00:59:28comedy

00:59:29that

00:59:30had a purpose

00:59:31and a function

00:59:32and was

00:59:33on some level

00:59:34sacred

00:59:35I think

00:59:35it was important

00:59:36to me

00:59:36to feel

00:59:37that I was

00:59:37in some

00:59:38kind of

00:59:38tradition

00:59:39that was

00:59:39worthwhile

00:59:40as I become

00:59:41so disillusioned

00:59:42so that's

00:59:43why the

00:59:43being a writer

00:59:44part of it

00:59:45was important

00:59:45to me

00:59:45I think

00:59:46but whatever

00:59:47other people

00:59:48want to do

00:59:49it's up to

00:59:49them really

00:59:50I'm not

00:59:50the police

00:59:52how's your

00:59:52health

00:59:53a lot better

00:59:54than it was

00:59:55I've been

00:59:56on high

00:59:57blood pressure

00:59:58medication

00:59:58for about

00:59:59ten years

01:00:01what's that

01:00:02all about

01:00:02I don't know

01:00:03bad diet

01:00:04in the 90s

01:00:05bad diet

01:00:05in the 90s

01:00:06I never sleep

01:00:07before four

01:00:07in the morning

01:00:08because I've

01:00:08spent so much

01:00:09time on stage

01:00:09that my

01:00:10adrenaline levels

01:00:11are all wrong

01:00:11I've lost

01:00:12about three stone

01:00:13in the last

01:00:14couple of years

01:00:14well a lot

01:00:15of it is

01:00:15from doing

01:00:16your werewolf

01:00:17every night

01:00:18because I run

01:00:19around in that

01:00:20costume for

01:00:20an hour

01:00:21I watched

01:00:21your Robert

01:00:22Lloyd documentary

01:00:23and you look

01:00:24like a garden

01:00:24gnome

01:00:25that was me

01:00:25at my absolute

01:00:26worst

01:00:27of health

01:00:27wise

01:00:28and also

01:00:28it's not a bad

01:00:29look by the way

01:00:30you could be

01:00:31in Middle Earth

01:00:32that film was

01:00:32at the Margate

01:00:33Film Festival

01:00:33on Sunday

01:00:35and I watched

01:00:35it again

01:00:36I thought wow

01:00:37a documentary

01:00:37about an obscure

01:00:39Birmingham punk

01:00:40band

01:00:42leader called

01:00:43Robert Lloyd

01:00:44he was sort of

01:00:45a less successful

01:00:46Mark E Smith

01:00:47that's exactly

01:00:47what he was

01:00:48yeah

01:00:48but yeah

01:00:49he watched

01:00:51that again

01:00:51and I realised

01:00:51what a low

01:00:52ebb I was

01:00:52at as I

01:00:53at the point

01:00:54of doing that

01:00:54I mean

01:00:56look

01:00:57another thing

01:00:57that I did

01:00:59I'll say this

01:01:00because

01:01:01you know

01:01:03over the

01:01:04sort of

01:01:0415 years

01:01:06that I was

01:01:07doing

01:01:07Comedy Vehicle

01:01:08I mean

01:01:08I wrote

01:01:10about 20

01:01:10hours of

01:01:11stand-up

01:01:12of a

01:01:14high quality

01:01:15I

01:01:15can see

01:01:16I can see

01:01:16when I

01:01:16watch

01:01:17those shows

01:01:17how tired

01:01:18I am

01:01:19you know

01:01:19and I

01:01:20think my

01:01:20life

01:01:21relationships

01:01:22and health

01:01:23really

01:01:24suffered

01:01:24during that

01:01:25period

01:01:25of producing

01:01:26all that

01:01:27work

01:01:27while the

01:01:28opportunity

01:01:28was there

01:01:28and being

01:01:29on the

01:01:29road

01:01:29all the

01:01:30time

01:01:30I'm

01:01:30really

01:01:30proud

01:01:31of it

01:01:31and no

01:01:32one

01:01:33will probably

01:01:34ever do

01:01:34anything

01:01:34like that

01:01:35ever again

01:01:36I don't

01:01:37think the

01:01:37opportunities

01:01:37will exist

01:01:38to develop

01:01:40that kind

01:01:40of work

01:01:41in that

01:01:41way

01:01:42for younger

01:01:43people

01:01:43also they

01:01:44won't have

01:01:44the start

01:01:45in life

01:01:45where you

01:01:46could spend

01:01:4610 years

01:01:47living in

01:01:47cheap housing

01:01:48and doing

01:01:48temp jobs

01:01:49while you

01:01:49worked out

01:01:49what you

01:01:50were trying

01:01:50to do

01:01:50that's all

01:01:51that window

01:01:52has collapsed

01:01:52well they

01:01:53won't do it

01:01:53on iPlayer

01:01:54but they'll

01:01:55do it on

01:01:55YouTube

01:01:55won't they

01:01:56yeah but

01:01:56it'd be

01:01:56different

01:01:57there's

01:01:57something about

01:01:58working things

01:01:59out in

01:01:59rooms

01:02:01they're not

01:02:01sterile

01:02:02they're organic

01:02:03where Jimmy

01:02:04is right to

01:02:05say the

01:02:05audience are

01:02:06a genius

01:02:07is my

01:02:08audience

01:02:08or my

01:02:09double act

01:02:09partner

01:02:10a good

01:02:11audience

01:02:11can intuit

01:02:12where a

01:02:13routine's

01:02:13going

01:02:14so you

01:02:15don't have

01:02:15to finish

01:02:15it or you

01:02:16can strip

01:02:16detail out

01:02:17of it and

01:02:17allow them

01:02:18to imagine

01:02:18the detail

01:02:19and you

01:02:19can see

01:02:20them laughing

01:02:20as they

01:02:22guess what

01:02:23you're describing

01:02:25or where

01:02:26something's

01:02:26going

01:02:27my audience

01:02:28have an

01:02:28oppositional

01:02:28relationship

01:02:29with me

01:02:29where they

01:02:30love me

01:02:30because they

01:02:31come to

01:02:31see me

01:02:31they sort

01:02:31of hate

01:02:32me as

01:02:32one thing

01:02:32I'm a

01:02:32ridiculous

01:02:33character

01:02:33they enjoy

01:02:35my failures

01:02:35and I

01:02:36like to set

01:02:37them up

01:02:38to enjoy

01:02:38them

01:02:38they

01:02:39control

01:02:40the timing

01:02:41of things

01:02:42I

01:02:43allow space

01:02:44for them

01:02:45to discover

01:02:46things for

01:02:47themselves

01:02:48and their

01:02:49responses

01:02:50are an

01:02:50important part

01:02:51of moving

01:02:51me on to

01:02:52the next

01:02:52bit

01:02:52and in

01:02:53fact some

01:02:54routines

01:02:56if you don't

01:02:57get the

01:02:57response you

01:02:58need at the

01:02:58point where

01:02:58you get it

01:02:59you're a bit

01:02:59fucked

01:03:00with Jimmy

01:03:01it wouldn't

01:03:01really matter

01:03:02if the

01:03:03audience

01:03:03were there

01:03:03or not

01:03:04because

01:03:05it's like

01:03:06a machine

01:03:07he could

01:03:07actually

01:03:08he could

01:03:09film a

01:03:10show in

01:03:10a theatre

01:03:11with no

01:03:11one there

01:03:11and dove

01:03:12it in

01:03:12it's not quite

01:03:13fair because

01:03:13he does do

01:03:13crowd work

01:03:14yeah but

01:03:15okay

01:03:15but without

01:03:16the crowd

01:03:17work you

01:03:18could kind

01:03:18of do

01:03:18it

01:03:18look a

01:03:19famous

01:03:19comedian

01:03:19was recording

01:03:21a video

01:03:22at the

01:03:22Hammersmith

01:03:23Apollo

01:03:23and there

01:03:24was a

01:03:24transport

01:03:25strike

01:03:26but most

01:03:26of the

01:03:27audience

01:03:27couldn't

01:03:27get there

01:03:28so they

01:03:29filmed it

01:03:29with no

01:03:30people

01:03:30and I'm

01:03:31not telling

01:03:31you who

01:03:32that was

01:03:32and then

01:03:33they cut

01:03:33the audience

01:03:34responses in

01:03:36from a

01:03:37different show

01:03:37a different

01:03:38night

01:03:38probably

01:03:39and it

01:03:40made no

01:03:40difference

01:03:45I feel

01:03:46like you're

01:03:46riding high

01:03:46at the

01:03:47moment

01:03:47though

01:03:47what kind

01:03:48of spaces

01:03:49are you

01:03:49filling

01:03:49well I've

01:03:51got hearing

01:03:51aids

01:03:52as you can

01:03:53see

01:03:53and so

01:03:54I

01:03:54could do

01:03:55bigger

01:03:55rooms

01:03:56the biggest

01:03:57rooms I

01:03:57do

01:03:57are

01:03:58the

01:03:593,500

01:04:00seater

01:04:02Edinburgh

01:04:02theatre

01:04:03the same

01:04:04size in

01:04:04Glasgow

01:04:05and I do

01:04:06those

01:04:06two or three

01:04:07times each

01:04:08on this

01:04:08tour

01:04:093,500

01:04:10yeah

01:04:11but I also

01:04:12do 500

01:04:13seaters

01:04:13I basically

01:04:14will do

01:04:15between

01:04:16200,000 and

01:04:17a quarter of a

01:04:17million people

01:04:17on each

01:04:18tour

01:04:18but I will

01:04:19do it

01:04:19in

01:04:21manageable

01:04:21amounts

01:04:22which is

01:04:22why I end

01:04:22up being on

01:04:23the road

01:04:23for so

01:04:23long

01:04:24you wouldn't

01:04:24really want

01:04:25to do

01:04:25the

01:04:25O2

01:04:26like one

01:04:26of these

01:04:2612,000

01:04:27seaters

01:04:28well

01:04:28one of

01:04:29my ideas

01:04:30is to

01:04:30do

01:04:30a stadium

01:04:31tour

01:04:31and to

01:04:32double down

01:04:33on all the

01:04:33things that

01:04:33are bad

01:04:34about it

01:04:35for example

01:04:36in the early

01:04:37days of

01:04:37spoken word

01:04:38in those

01:04:38kind of

01:04:39venues

01:04:39before sound

01:04:40was digital

01:04:41you know

01:04:41it would

01:04:42sometimes take

01:04:43longer to

01:04:44get to the

01:04:44speakers in

01:04:44different parts

01:04:45of the room

01:04:45so things

01:04:46were out of

01:04:47sync

01:04:47so I'm

01:04:47wondering

01:04:47about

01:04:48exaggerating

01:04:49that

01:04:49so that

01:04:50different parts

01:04:51of the room

01:04:51are getting

01:04:52the speech

01:04:52later

01:04:53significantly

01:04:54later

01:04:54that sounds

01:04:55like a disaster

01:04:56and then

01:04:56you know

01:04:57they film them

01:04:58don't they

01:04:58the comedians

01:04:59and project

01:04:59them

01:05:00so I'd like

01:05:00to have

01:05:01on stage

01:05:02a little

01:05:04grasshopper

01:05:04or something

01:05:05with a mic

01:05:06stand

01:05:06in a glass

01:05:07tank

01:05:08and you film

01:05:09that

01:05:09and project

01:05:10that

01:05:10and I do

01:05:11with a voice

01:05:12or something

01:05:12to make it

01:05:13or

01:05:14and you

01:05:15wouldn't

01:05:15see you

01:05:16at all

01:05:16you might

01:05:16do later

01:05:17or me

01:05:18to be

01:05:18on stage

01:05:18but in

01:05:19a motion

01:05:19capture

01:05:19suit

01:05:20like

01:05:21Gollum

01:05:22has in

01:05:22Lord of the

01:05:22Rings

01:05:23the actor

01:05:23so that

01:05:24on the

01:05:24screen

01:05:24is a

01:05:25younger

01:05:25version

01:05:25of me

01:05:27that's

01:05:27interesting

01:05:29or it

01:05:30could be

01:05:30Jimmy Carr

01:05:32and also

01:05:34in stadium

01:05:35gigs

01:05:35arena gigs

01:05:36people are

01:05:37always wandering

01:05:37in and out

01:05:38they never

01:05:38can concentrate

01:05:39they go to

01:05:39the bar

01:05:40they do

01:05:40piss

01:05:40all the time

01:05:41to have

01:05:42loads of

01:05:42people

01:05:42on the

01:05:43move

01:05:43all the

01:05:44time

01:05:44through it

01:05:44and then

01:05:46to have

01:05:46people

01:05:46selling

01:05:47things

01:05:47because

01:05:47another

01:05:48awful

01:05:48thing

01:05:48about

01:05:49those

01:05:49kind

01:05:49of

01:05:49shows

01:05:49is

01:05:49those

01:05:49kind

01:05:50of

01:05:50acts

01:05:50often

01:05:50have

01:05:50insanely

01:05:51overpriced

01:05:52merchandise

01:05:52and to

01:05:53rip off

01:05:54the working

01:05:54classes

01:05:54that go

01:05:55to those

01:05:55kind

01:05:55of venues

01:05:56to have

01:05:57really

01:05:57aggressive

01:05:57selling

01:05:58of

01:05:58absolutely

01:05:58shit

01:05:59things

01:05:59in the

01:06:00aisles

01:06:00all the

01:06:00way

01:06:01through

01:06:01it

01:06:01so

01:06:02to

01:06:02sort

01:06:02of

01:06:02to

01:06:03take

01:06:03the

01:06:03arena

01:06:04gig

01:06:04and

01:06:05amplify

01:06:05all of

01:06:06its

01:06:06worst

01:06:07aspects

01:06:07and

01:06:08have a

01:06:08horrible

01:06:09night

01:06:09I think

01:06:09could be

01:06:10really

01:06:10funny

01:06:10it

01:06:11sounds

01:06:11like

01:06:12an art

01:06:12piece

01:06:12yeah

01:06:13well

01:06:14what's

01:06:14wrong

01:06:14with

01:06:15that

01:06:15yeah

01:06:16down the

01:06:16line

01:06:16I might

01:06:17do

01:06:17that

01:06:18what

01:06:18I feel

01:06:19like I've

01:06:21taken a lot

01:06:22of your

01:06:22time

01:06:22it's

01:06:22alright

01:06:23I've got

01:06:23loads

01:06:24what am I

01:06:24doing

01:06:24today

01:06:25nothing

01:06:25are you

01:06:25alright

01:06:26yeah

01:06:26I've got a

01:06:27cycle to

01:06:28Bethnal Green

01:06:29I've never seen

01:06:30Daniel Kitson

01:06:30does he still

01:06:31perform

01:06:32oh yeah

01:06:32you've said

01:06:33he's the best

01:06:33stand up

01:06:34you've ever

01:06:34seen

01:06:35yeah

01:06:36but Kitson

01:06:36really

01:06:36is he still

01:06:37performing

01:06:38yes he is

01:06:39and he turns

01:06:39over a variety

01:06:41of different

01:06:41types of

01:06:41work

01:06:42and what's

01:06:42interesting

01:06:43about him

01:06:43never does

01:06:43TV

01:06:44no

01:06:44he doesn't

01:06:45even like

01:06:45being filmed

01:06:45particularly

01:06:46for anything

01:06:46or documented

01:06:48in any way

01:06:48which I

01:06:49understand

01:06:50but he

01:06:50sort of

01:06:52he did a

01:06:53show

01:06:54in Edinburgh

01:06:55a couple

01:06:55of years

01:06:55ago

01:06:55where

01:06:56everyone

01:06:57that came

01:06:57in

01:06:58was given

01:06:58a script

01:06:59and a

01:07:00number

01:07:00and

01:07:01he was

01:07:02in a

01:07:02dialogue

01:07:03with the

01:07:03entire

01:07:03audience

01:07:04and everyone

01:07:04had their

01:07:05line

01:07:06it's just

01:07:07it was

01:07:08so

01:07:08fantastic

01:07:09it was

01:07:09like

01:07:11an

01:07:12act

01:07:12of

01:07:12magic

01:07:13you know

01:07:14at the

01:07:14end

01:07:14everyone

01:07:15was

01:07:17breathless

01:07:18to have

01:07:18been

01:07:19through

01:07:19this

01:07:19thing

01:07:19incredible

01:07:21see

01:07:22here you

01:07:23are

01:07:23you're

01:07:23saying

01:07:23that I

01:07:25slag

01:07:26off

01:07:26comedians

01:07:26at least

01:07:27three times

01:07:28during

01:07:28talking to

01:07:28you

01:07:28I've

01:07:28been

01:07:29almost

01:07:29moved

01:07:30to

01:07:30tears

01:07:30by

01:07:30memory

01:07:31of

01:07:31the

01:07:31brilliance

01:07:31of

01:07:31a

01:07:32thing

01:07:33that one

01:07:34really

01:07:34affected

01:07:34you

01:07:34oh

01:07:35god

01:07:35yeah

01:07:35it's

01:07:36just

01:07:36superb

01:07:37and the

01:07:37silly

01:07:38sod

01:07:38you know

01:07:38he just

01:07:39does it

01:07:4040 times

01:07:41himself

01:07:41doesn't film it

01:07:43and you never hear of it again

01:07:43it's the kind of thing

01:07:44if you gave it

01:07:45you could give it to

01:07:46Keanu Reeves

01:07:47and he would do it on

01:07:48Broadway

01:07:49for 10 years

01:07:50and everyone would think

01:07:51he was

01:07:51you know

01:07:52you could

01:07:52give someone that idea

01:07:53that script

01:07:54and they could do it

01:07:55slightly random

01:07:57pot shot at

01:07:57Keanu Reeves

01:07:58I like Keanu Reeves

01:07:59I'm just saying

01:07:59I just thought of

01:08:00I just thought of him

01:08:02hard to imagine him doing a

01:08:03kitchen routine for 10 years

01:08:04on Broadway

01:08:04I know yeah

01:08:05he wouldn't do that

01:08:06six months then

01:08:07Alan Bennett said of you

01:08:09do you know this one

01:08:11yeah

01:08:11he's fearless

01:08:13undeterred by an audience

01:08:14he's fearless

01:08:16undeterred by an audience's failure

01:08:18to respond

01:08:19even welcoming

01:08:20I'm jumping off the impression

01:08:22even welcoming it

01:08:23so that you can analyse it

01:08:24tracking down the missing laugh

01:08:25until the audience laughs at itself

01:08:27it's austere stuff

01:08:29yeah I love the fact

01:08:31that he totally got it

01:08:32Alan Bennett

01:08:33and he's the best person

01:08:34that's ever written about me

01:08:35he's the JL

01:08:36this is the continued

01:08:37last bit of the quote

01:08:38he's the JL Austin

01:08:40of what is now

01:08:41a rather sloppy profession

01:08:43yeah

01:08:43well it's great

01:08:44I had to look up JL Austin

01:08:46yeah

01:08:46do you know who that is

01:08:47yeah I did

01:08:48in fact I did a routine

01:08:49about exactly that

01:08:50about JL Austin

01:08:51and the other linguistic philosophers

01:08:53he's a linguistic philosopher

01:08:54yeah

01:08:55I looked him up

01:08:56I couldn't really understand

01:08:57what he was on about

01:08:58but Alan Bennett is

01:08:59you know

01:09:00I've been

01:09:01really really lucky

01:09:03with some of the people

01:09:04that I've met

01:09:04I'm so glad that I met him

01:09:06and that he liked the work

01:09:08I'd like to just reflect

01:09:10on the strangeness

01:09:10of the compliment

01:09:11that Alan Bennett

01:09:12gave you though

01:09:13it's austere stuff

01:09:16for comedy

01:09:17austere seems as strange

01:09:20well adjective

01:09:20I mean I get it

01:09:21I think he means

01:09:22it's theoretically rigorous

01:09:24yeah

01:09:25right

01:09:25you know

01:09:26I occupy a position

01:09:27and I hold on to it

01:09:29and I don't

01:09:31compromise that position

01:09:32just to get laughs

01:09:33you know

01:09:34it's

01:09:35isn't that weird

01:09:35just to get laughs

01:09:37as though that would be

01:09:38beneath the dignity

01:09:39of a comedian

01:09:39to go for laughs

01:09:41well it's easy to get laughs

01:09:42is it

01:09:43yeah

01:09:43once you work it out

01:09:44it's just little tricks

01:09:45little linguistic tricks

01:09:46and attitudes

01:09:47and moves

01:09:48sometimes you can't get laughs

01:09:49you do jokes

01:09:50but you sort of do them

01:09:51either grudgingly

01:09:53or you do them

01:09:54in order to

01:09:55notice that you're doing them

01:09:57and that they're beneath you

01:09:58yeah

01:09:58I kind of know

01:09:59how to get laughs now

01:10:01after all this time

01:10:02I didn't when I started out

01:10:03the trick is

01:10:04every show

01:10:05I like to

01:10:06I like to put something in

01:10:07that people

01:10:09wouldn't normally have seen

01:10:10stand up

01:10:11can be a great

01:10:12Trojan horse

01:10:13for

01:10:14smuggling in

01:10:15things from art

01:10:16that a normal person

01:10:18wouldn't want to see

01:10:18or wouldn't think

01:10:20they'd want to see

01:10:20like in Snowflake Tornado

01:10:23show

01:10:23I basically did

01:10:24ten minutes of

01:10:25free jazz vocal improvisation

01:10:27as an impression of

01:10:28Ricky Gervais

01:10:29saying the unsayable

01:10:31so I

01:10:32you know

01:10:32exposed people

01:10:33to a kind of

01:10:33avant-garde technique

01:10:34but under the

01:10:36cover of it being

01:10:37an impression of someone

01:10:38and if they said

01:10:39oh well

01:10:40I like the show

01:10:40except that bit

01:10:41was a bit boring

01:10:42yeah they might say that

01:10:43yeah

01:10:43and then what would you

01:10:44think about that

01:10:45well for every person

01:10:46that says that

01:10:46there's someone

01:10:47that would say

01:10:47it's the funniest

01:10:48thing they'd ever seen

01:10:49that's the thing

01:10:49about the extreme stuff

01:10:50is it's either

01:10:51the people's favourite bit

01:10:53or they hate it

01:10:54but I think they

01:10:55kind of come along

01:10:56expecting there to be

01:10:57a bit they can't stand

01:10:58and then some of the bits

01:10:59they can't stand

01:11:00suddenly five minutes in

01:11:01they find it

01:11:02the funniest thing

01:11:03we've all had that

01:11:04and you hate something

01:11:05and then it clicks for you

01:11:07and you think it's great

01:11:08you know

01:11:08and I think

01:11:10that's where I've ended up

01:11:12I'm working in a populist genre

01:11:15that has rules

01:11:18and it's supposed to be

01:11:19people's night out

01:11:21it's supposed to be

01:11:22the fun thing they do

01:11:24but it's flexible enough

01:11:25that you can do

01:11:27high art in it

01:11:27you can do politics

01:11:28and you can do

01:11:29all sorts of things in it

01:11:30and they don't always notice

01:11:31that they've

01:11:32that they've had that

01:11:34happen to them

01:11:34and I think

01:11:36that I've not really

01:11:37begun

01:11:38to get where I can get

01:11:39with it

01:11:40and I think it gets

01:11:41funnier

01:11:42as you get older

01:11:43because

01:11:44it's unexpected

01:11:46that a person

01:11:47in their 60s

01:11:47or 70s

01:11:48would still be

01:11:49pushing forwards

01:11:50like that

01:11:52he who is not

01:11:54busy being born

01:11:54is busy dying

01:11:55yeah

01:11:57Quoth Dylan

01:11:58you reference

01:11:59in basically

01:12:00the possibility

01:12:01of a diagnosis

01:12:02being on the

01:12:03autistic spectrum

01:12:04yeah I mean

01:12:05I kind of regret

01:12:05having mentioned that

01:12:06because it was

01:12:07the doctor

01:12:08it's a good bit

01:12:09though

01:12:10yeah

01:12:10well

01:12:10the doctor

01:12:11said it

01:12:12he did

01:12:13the spot test

01:12:14you know

01:12:14where they do

01:12:1540 questions

01:12:17and then he said

01:12:18you can either

01:12:18go on an NHS

01:12:19waiting list

01:12:20or get it done

01:12:20yourself

01:12:20and I thought

01:12:21well I don't

01:12:21really need to

01:12:22it doesn't make

01:12:22any difference

01:12:23it's too late

01:12:24it's been quite

01:12:24interesting reading

01:12:25about it

01:12:25but why I regret

01:12:27having said it

01:12:28is it looks like

01:12:29you're trying to

01:12:30jump on that

01:12:32ship

01:12:32you know

01:12:33it's a kind of

01:12:34thing now isn't it

01:12:34and I don't

01:12:36really want to get

01:12:37caught up in it

01:12:38but I was on a

01:12:39helpline to

01:12:40Microsoft the

01:12:41other day

01:12:41and the man

01:12:42actually suggested

01:12:43he said

01:12:44after an hour

01:12:45he said to me

01:12:46we do have a

01:12:47special helpline

01:12:48for people

01:12:48with disabilities

01:12:50or who are

01:12:50perhaps neurodiverse

01:12:52if you would like

01:12:52to call that

01:12:55that to me

01:12:56that's a better

01:12:56diagnosis

01:12:57than the NHS

01:12:58he was clearly

01:12:59been trained

01:13:00how to broach

01:13:01this subject

01:13:03very diplomatically

01:13:05it really made me

01:13:06laugh

01:13:06I told my son

01:13:07he was laughing

01:13:07his head off

01:13:08so you haven't

01:13:09found the idea

01:13:10of you being

01:13:11on the spectrum

01:13:12especially helpful

01:13:13I found it helpful

01:13:14I found it helpful

01:13:15to understand

01:13:19how I've annoyed

01:13:20lots of people

01:13:22without intending to

01:13:25do you feel like

01:13:26you have annoyed

01:13:26a lot of people

01:13:27yeah

01:13:27in retrospect

01:13:28yeah

01:13:30and also

01:13:32why it's difficult

01:13:34for people to live

01:13:34with me

01:13:35because I

01:13:35have systems

01:13:37what kind of systems

01:13:39well systems

01:13:40for organising things

01:13:41that are

01:13:43my sister's around

01:13:44at the weekend

01:13:44and one of them's

01:13:46boyfriends

01:13:46started talking about

01:13:47the highest pub

01:13:48in Britain

01:13:48in England

01:13:49I went oh that's

01:13:50on the front

01:13:51of the third album

01:13:52by Back Door

01:13:53the early 70s

01:13:54British jazz rock band

01:13:55and I went and got it

01:13:56and there's thousands

01:13:57of records in my

01:13:59room

01:13:59and my sister said

01:14:00how did you find that

01:14:01in five seconds

01:14:02British jazz

01:14:03it's in the British jazz

01:14:05section under B

01:14:07you know

01:14:07I know

01:14:08where

01:14:08I have systems

01:14:10and

01:14:10that's almost like

01:14:11a cliche of

01:14:12kind of

01:14:14garage man

01:14:14isn't it

01:14:15yeah

01:14:15but also

01:14:16but when you

01:14:17immediately my mind

01:14:18was what

01:14:18so you alphabetise

01:14:19your CDs

01:14:20yeah

01:14:21but I wondered

01:14:21if it went further

01:14:22well it's also this

01:14:23right

01:14:25which is

01:14:25Michael McIntyre

01:14:27is very good

01:14:27at what he does

01:14:28and his act

01:14:29and the act

01:14:30of a lot of comedians

01:14:31is we all do this

01:14:32don't we

01:14:32we do this

01:14:33I do this

01:14:33you do this

01:14:34we all do this

01:14:35thing

01:14:35and everyone goes

01:14:36yeah I do that

01:14:37yeah

01:14:37his famous bit

01:14:38was the messy drawer

01:14:39wasn't it

01:14:39the man drawer

01:14:42my act is

01:14:43I do this

01:14:44and you don't

01:14:45why are you all

01:14:46like that

01:14:47you're all wrong

01:14:48I understand this

01:14:50why don't you

01:14:51understand it

01:14:52that's what it's like

01:14:53people like that

01:14:54think they don't

01:14:55understand why

01:14:56the world isn't

01:14:57moral

01:14:57they don't

01:14:58understand why

01:14:59it's not logical

01:15:00they don't

01:15:01understand why

01:15:01it doesn't make

01:15:02sense

01:15:02they don't

01:15:03understand people's

01:15:04feelings

01:15:04who are you

01:15:05talking about

01:15:06now

01:15:06me

01:15:06Stuart Lee

01:15:07the character

01:15:07yeah

01:15:08and people

01:15:09that are told

01:15:10that they've got

01:15:11these conditions

01:15:12and it's hard

01:15:13for them

01:15:13Greta Thunberg

01:15:14yeah

01:15:15but that's why

01:15:17when she sees

01:15:18Trump

01:15:19she doesn't see

01:15:19the President

01:15:20of the United States

01:15:20she sees a man

01:15:22who doesn't

01:15:22understand climate

01:15:23change

01:15:24and is lying

01:15:27they just call

01:15:28it out

01:15:28but what about

01:15:29you

01:15:29make it about

01:15:30you

01:15:30well

01:15:30I think

01:15:32that

01:15:33if I were to

01:15:34follow this up

01:15:34with a diagnosis

01:15:35properly

01:15:36it kind of

01:15:37doesn't matter

01:15:38really

01:15:39because just

01:15:40reading about

01:15:41those

01:15:42ways of looking

01:15:43at the world

01:15:43I recognise it

01:15:44and I think

01:15:45it's actually

01:15:46given me an

01:15:47angle in stand up

01:15:49it's given me

01:15:49a lot of

01:15:50problems in

01:15:50life

01:15:51but that's

01:15:52probably why

01:15:52I like being

01:15:53on stage

01:15:53most of all

01:15:54because when

01:15:55I'm on stage

01:15:55I don't have

01:15:56to be on

01:15:58the phone

01:15:58to Microsoft

01:15:59or

01:16:03talk to

01:16:04people

01:16:04yeah

01:16:05negotiate

01:16:05intimate

01:16:06human relationships

01:16:07yeah

01:16:08or

01:16:08anything

01:16:09you know

01:16:10there's a great

01:16:11Australian songwriter

01:16:12Dave Graney

01:16:13he's got a song

01:16:14Rock and Roll

01:16:15is Where I Hide

01:16:16I completely get that

01:16:17you know

01:16:19again I've

01:16:19talked to you

01:16:20I've said oh I do

01:16:21all these smaller

01:16:21venues because it's

01:16:22about size

01:16:23and maybe I just

01:16:24like having to

01:16:26work more

01:16:27I think so

01:16:28yeah

01:16:28you're up there

01:16:29hiding

01:16:29yeah

01:16:31isn't that wild

01:16:32I think we're good

01:16:33you know we've been

01:16:33going along

01:16:34but you know I do

01:16:34want to say one

01:16:35thing though which

01:16:35is it's striking

01:16:36and you've said

01:16:37this and I wish

01:16:38I'd seen the show

01:16:38but I will see it

01:16:39I guarantee it

01:16:40there's two weeks

01:16:41at Ali Pali

01:16:42in the theatre

01:16:42at Alexandra Palace

01:16:43in London

01:16:44in February

01:16:45the weekends

01:16:45have gone a lot

01:16:46but the weekdays

01:16:47are still there

01:16:47if anyone wants

01:16:48to go

01:16:48and it'll be

01:16:49great in there

01:16:49because it's an

01:16:50old gothic-y

01:16:51looking building

01:16:52and it'll really

01:16:52suit the horror

01:16:53aspect of the show

01:16:54but you've said

01:16:55that actually

01:16:55the funniest part

01:16:56is probably the

01:16:58bit where you do

01:16:58the reactionary

01:16:59Netflix comedy

01:17:01stuff as a

01:17:02werewolf

01:17:03well this was a

01:17:03quote from your

01:17:04interview with

01:17:05Christian Guru

01:17:05Murthy

01:17:06oh yeah

01:17:06it's such a

01:17:07surprise that the

01:17:07nasty reactionary

01:17:08Netflix bit is

01:17:09kind of the best

01:17:10bit of the

01:17:10topical stuff

01:17:11something is

01:17:12clearly attractive

01:17:13about callousness

01:17:14and cruelty

01:17:15yeah

01:17:16at this point

01:17:17in history

01:17:19although I think

01:17:20you could take

01:17:20out at this point

01:17:21in history

01:17:21but in general

01:17:22right

01:17:22yeah

01:17:23the bullies

01:17:24at my school

01:17:24were the funniest

01:17:25people

01:17:25if we're to

01:17:27believe that

01:17:27nearly 30

01:17:28people that

01:17:29have described

01:17:31Farage's behaviour

01:17:32at school

01:17:32he's occupying

01:17:34two positions

01:17:34simultaneously

01:17:35first of all

01:17:36he says it

01:17:36he doesn't

01:17:37remember it

01:17:37and he denies

01:17:38it happens

01:17:38and then he

01:17:39says it was

01:17:40just banter

01:17:40anyway

01:17:41I don't think

01:17:42there is such

01:17:43a thing

01:17:43as harmless

01:17:44banter

01:17:46certainly

01:17:46not outside

01:17:48the codifying

01:17:49effects of a

01:17:51theatre space

01:17:51or of a

01:17:53close group

01:17:54of friends

01:17:54can sometimes

01:17:56be callous to

01:17:57each other

01:17:58in a way

01:17:59that's enormously

01:18:00liberating

01:18:01actually

01:18:01and bonding

01:18:03and some

01:18:04comedians

01:18:07can create

01:18:07that atmosphere

01:18:08in a room

01:18:09where the audience

01:18:10feel like they're

01:18:10in on it

01:18:11Sadovitz

01:18:12can do that

01:18:13sometimes

01:18:13not always

01:18:15and in fact

01:18:16it's more

01:18:16difficult for him

01:18:17now because

01:18:19things get

01:18:21decontextualised

01:18:21you know

01:18:22he's never

01:18:23filmed

01:18:23he never

01:18:24allowed himself

01:18:25to be filmed

01:18:25and in fact

01:18:26there was

01:18:27an allegation

01:18:28that some of

01:18:28the workers

01:18:29at an Edinburgh

01:18:29venue

01:18:30found his

01:18:31material

01:18:32offensive

01:18:33and he was

01:18:33cancelled

01:18:34I think what

01:18:34happened there

01:18:35difficult

01:18:36because I

01:18:37don't really

01:18:37like to talk

01:18:38about shows

01:18:38that I didn't

01:18:39see

01:18:39you know

01:18:40but Sadovitz

01:18:41started in the

01:18:4280s when there

01:18:43was a liberal

01:18:43orthodoxy

01:18:44and he

01:18:46took a position

01:18:47against it

01:18:48for comic effect

01:18:49he took a position

01:18:49against everything

01:18:50for comic effect

01:18:51and his famous

01:18:52line was to go

01:18:53out and open

01:18:55with Nelson Mandela

01:18:56what a cunt

01:18:57you lend some

01:18:58people a fiver

01:18:59and you never

01:18:59see them again

01:19:01but what's

01:19:02different now

01:19:02which is challenging

01:19:03his other one

01:19:04because he was

01:19:04half Jewish

01:19:05half Scottish

01:19:05wasn't he

01:19:06he says

01:19:06my Scottish

01:19:07half buys

01:19:09drinks

01:19:09that my

01:19:10Jewish half

01:19:10won't pay

01:19:11for them

01:19:12yeah

01:19:12he's allowed

01:19:13isn't he

01:19:13but I think

01:19:14the difference

01:19:15is now

01:19:15that if he's

01:19:16doing racist

01:19:17material about

01:19:18hating immigrants

01:19:19he's doing it

01:19:20against a backdrop

01:19:21where that's a

01:19:21mainstream political

01:19:22position now

01:19:23you know

01:19:23so it's sort

01:19:24of that

01:19:26material he was

01:19:27doing about

01:19:27Islam

01:19:28which I didn't

01:19:28see

01:19:29would probably

01:19:30have read

01:19:30differently

01:19:31to young

01:19:32Muslim men

01:19:33who perhaps

01:19:34come from

01:19:34a you know

01:19:36were new

01:19:37into the

01:19:37country

01:19:38and weren't

01:19:39aware of

01:19:40the history

01:19:42of Sadovits

01:19:42his position

01:19:43as opposed

01:19:44to in

01:19:45opposition to

01:19:45an 80s

01:19:46liberal consensus

01:19:47you know

01:19:47so it's a

01:19:48difficult thing

01:19:49I've never

01:19:50seen him

01:19:50but he's got

01:19:51in pictures

01:19:52strange

01:19:52insectile

01:19:53almost homeless

01:19:55presentation

01:19:56and a

01:19:56perpetually

01:19:57bleeding scab

01:19:58on his

01:19:58nose

01:19:59for real

01:19:59led for

01:20:00since I've

01:20:01known him

01:20:01in the 80s

01:20:02I used to

01:20:03be a support

01:20:04act

01:20:04and it was

01:20:05a fascinating

01:20:06time

01:20:07then he

01:20:08stopped speaking

01:20:08to me for

01:20:09some reason

01:20:09I don't really

01:20:10know why

01:20:10he wouldn't

01:20:11speak to me

01:20:12if we were

01:20:12in the same

01:20:12venue

01:20:14and he also

01:20:15asked me to

01:20:16stop going

01:20:16to see him

01:20:18because he

01:20:19said that

01:20:19it's not you

01:20:21he said it's

01:20:21me I'm

01:20:21paranoid

01:20:22if you do

01:20:23something that's

01:20:24similar to

01:20:24something I've

01:20:25done I'll

01:20:25think you've

01:20:26copied it and

01:20:26I'll hate you

01:20:27but if you

01:20:28haven't been in

01:20:28the show then

01:20:29I'll know you

01:20:29haven't copied

01:20:30it

01:20:30I thought fair

01:20:31enough

01:20:31I bought a

01:20:32ticket for him

01:20:33once I was in

01:20:33the queue

01:20:34he walked past

01:20:35he said are you

01:20:36coming in to see

01:20:36this I said yeah

01:20:37I've bought a

01:20:37ticket

01:20:38he said I don't

01:20:39want you to

01:20:39come in

01:20:39I went well I

01:20:40won't then

01:20:41and he went you've

01:20:42bought a ticket

01:20:42though and I

01:20:43went it's alright

01:20:43it doesn't matter

01:20:44I'll go

01:20:46and then the last

01:20:47time I saw him

01:20:48that must have

01:20:49been quite

01:20:49emotional

01:20:50yeah I hope

01:20:51he's alright

01:20:52the last time

01:20:52I saw him

01:20:54my son was

01:20:54about 12

01:20:5513 he was

01:20:56going to a

01:20:56party in

01:20:56Finchley

01:20:58and I said

01:20:58I used to

01:20:59come here a

01:20:59lot because

01:20:59Sadovitz used

01:21:00to live with

01:21:00his mother

01:21:01in a council

01:21:02flat here

01:21:03but I haven't

01:21:04seen him for

01:21:0410 years

01:21:06he's coming up

01:21:07the escalator

01:21:08stop it

01:21:09like you say

01:21:10his name

01:21:12coming up the

01:21:13escalator

01:21:13when that's

01:21:14him there

01:21:14Luke goes

01:21:15that's the

01:21:16guy I was

01:21:16just talking

01:21:17about

01:21:17I was coming

01:21:18up the

01:21:18escalator

01:21:18he was going

01:21:18down it

01:21:19talking about

01:21:21amazing

01:21:21why does it

01:21:22say ear on

01:21:23your hand

01:21:24because this

01:21:25morning

01:21:25why does it

01:21:26say ear on

01:21:26your hand

01:21:27because I had

01:21:28to remember

01:21:28to go to

01:21:29the hearing

01:21:29specialist

01:21:30this morning

01:21:31ear on one

01:21:32and ears on

01:21:32the other

01:21:33why on both

01:21:35it gives me

01:21:36twice the chance

01:21:37of being reminded

01:21:38and you had

01:21:39to do what

01:21:39go to hearing

01:21:40specialist at

01:21:41nine o'clock

01:21:41this morning

01:21:42did you

01:21:42to get them

01:21:42what

01:21:43rinsed out

01:21:43well and to

01:21:44have my

01:21:45hearing aids

01:21:46checked up

01:21:46on because

01:21:47I've got

01:21:47these ones

01:21:47that are

01:21:49calibrated to

01:21:50how bad

01:21:50your hearing

01:21:51has got

01:21:51if it's got

01:21:52worse then

01:21:53they change

01:21:53them

01:21:54what's behind

01:21:55that

01:21:55I always assumed

01:21:58it would have

01:21:58been noise

01:21:59damage due to

01:21:59having lived

01:22:00a reckless

01:22:00life

01:22:02but when I

01:22:03finally went

01:22:05to the NHS

01:22:06about it

01:22:06the curve

01:22:08showed that

01:22:08it was just

01:22:09progressive

01:22:10deterioration

01:22:11and there

01:22:11were no

01:22:11spikes of

01:22:12damage

01:22:12and in

01:22:13fact the

01:22:14first time

01:22:14I ever met

01:22:14my father

01:22:16anyone that's

01:22:16ever heard

01:22:17the interview

01:22:17would have

01:22:17heard this

01:22:19the first

01:22:19thing I

01:22:19noticed about

01:22:20him was

01:22:21that he

01:22:21had hearing

01:22:22aids

01:22:22your birth

01:22:23father

01:22:23and the

01:22:24first thing

01:22:25I said to

01:22:25him was

01:22:25oh look

01:22:26you've got

01:22:26hearing aids

01:22:27and the

01:22:27first thing

01:22:27he said

01:22:27to me

01:22:28was

01:22:29yes

01:22:29everyone

01:22:30in your

01:22:30family

01:22:30goes deaf

01:22:31and you

01:22:31will as

01:22:31well

01:22:32so there

01:22:33you are

01:22:33that was

01:22:33the great

01:22:34inheritance

01:22:35that I

01:22:35had

01:22:35all I

01:22:36inherited

01:22:36from him

01:22:36was deafness

01:22:39I was

01:22:39not hearing

01:22:40as much

01:22:41as I

01:22:41wanted

01:22:42in the

01:22:42rooms

01:22:43I never

01:22:44thought

01:22:44anything

01:22:44of it

01:22:44but it

01:22:44always

01:22:45seemed to

01:22:45me

01:22:45that people

01:22:46on the

01:22:46far left

01:22:46were particularly

01:22:47bad at

01:22:48laughing

01:22:48and actually

01:22:49that's just

01:22:49where there's a

01:22:50problem in

01:22:52that side

01:22:53for that

01:22:54cochlea

01:22:55isn't that

01:22:55funny

01:22:57that's the

01:22:57good thing

01:22:58about stand

01:22:58up

01:22:58everyone's

01:22:59problems

01:23:00should be

01:23:01able to

01:23:01become an

01:23:01advantage

01:23:02everything

01:23:03that's

01:23:03difficult

01:23:04for you

01:23:05you should

01:23:05be able

01:23:06to

01:23:07weaponise

01:23:07it

01:23:08in some

01:23:08way

01:23:09thanks for

01:23:10coming by

01:23:10Stu

01:23:11I think

01:23:12we covered

01:23:12a lot of

01:23:12ground

01:23:13I could

01:23:13keep going

01:23:13but Millie's

01:23:14got to edit

01:23:14this thing

01:23:16how are you

01:23:17feeling about

01:23:17it being on

01:23:17Spotify

01:23:19you sure

01:23:20done it

01:23:20now

01:23:38so what

01:23:38a great

01:23:39chat I have

01:23:39to say

01:23:40that but

01:23:40it was

01:23:41and I

01:23:42yes I

01:23:42went and

01:23:42saw Stuart's

01:23:43show

01:23:44it was an

01:23:45odd one

01:23:45because I

01:23:46got the

01:23:46day wrong

01:23:47so I'd

01:23:47been

01:23:48comped

01:23:49for like

01:23:49a Friday

01:23:50and then

01:23:50whatever

01:23:51there was

01:23:51I got

01:23:51the wrong

01:23:52not for

01:23:52the first

01:23:53time

01:23:53the wrong

01:23:53date

01:23:53and I

01:23:54turned up

01:23:54on a

01:23:54Wednesday

01:23:56had trouble

01:23:56finding the

01:23:57right door

01:23:58and my

01:23:58name wasn't

01:23:59on the

01:23:59door

01:24:00and then I

01:24:00just sort

01:24:01of

01:24:02they look

01:24:02it was

01:24:03like there's

01:24:03a very

01:24:04confused

01:24:05elderly

01:24:05Louis Theroux

01:24:06at the

01:24:07door

01:24:07we better

01:24:07just find

01:24:08him a

01:24:08seat

01:24:08anyway

01:24:09and what

01:24:10it really

01:24:10was

01:24:12I totally

01:24:13recommend it

01:24:14if you're a

01:24:1555 year old

01:24:16irrelevant

01:24:17cringe old

01:24:17man

01:24:19then you

01:24:20are

01:24:20you know

01:24:20who sort

01:24:21of still

01:24:21feels like

01:24:21a bit

01:24:22of a

01:24:22holdover

01:24:23from his

01:24:24student

01:24:24you know

01:24:25sort of

01:24:25womad

01:24:28era

01:24:29granola

01:24:29munching

01:24:31why can't

01:24:31we all

01:24:32just get

01:24:32along

01:24:32actually that

01:24:33isn't fully

01:24:34me but I

01:24:34have part of

01:24:34that in me

01:24:35and I

01:24:36really loved

01:24:38his willingness

01:24:39to do what

01:24:40tell funny

01:24:41jokes and

01:24:41entertain the

01:24:41audience

01:24:44since taping

01:24:45I've released

01:24:45my own

01:24:46related

01:24:46piece of

01:24:48work

01:24:48called

01:24:49Louis Theroux

01:24:49inside the

01:24:51manosphere

01:24:52exploring the

01:24:53same thing

01:24:53of what

01:24:53what is

01:24:54our

01:24:54you know

01:24:54our

01:24:55responsibility

01:24:55to entertain

01:24:56versus

01:24:57the urge

01:24:58to

01:24:59I guess

01:25:00uplift

01:25:01or provide

01:25:02insight

01:25:02to cultivate

01:25:03our good

01:25:04side as

01:25:05well as

01:25:05recognise

01:25:06the darker

01:25:07sides of

01:25:07our

01:25:08personalities

01:25:09that's on

01:25:10Netflix

01:25:11yes I'm

01:25:12plugging

01:25:12myself

01:25:14that sounds

01:25:15a bit

01:25:15obscene

01:25:15there are

01:25:16still tickets

01:25:17available across

01:25:18the UK

01:25:18for Stuart's

01:25:19show

01:25:19throughout the

01:25:20rest of

01:25:212026

01:25:21and check

01:25:22out his

01:25:22website for

01:25:23more info

01:25:24legal note

01:25:25we spoke

01:25:25about the

01:25:26allegations

01:25:26that reform

01:25:27leader Nigel

01:25:27Farage made

01:25:28racist comments

01:25:29to his peers

01:25:30while attending

01:25:31Dulwich College

01:25:31during the

01:25:32late

01:25:3270s

01:25:33early

01:25:3380s

01:25:34Farage has

01:25:35denied the

01:25:35allegations

01:25:36made against

01:25:36him but

01:25:37in a BBC

01:25:38documentary with

01:25:39Farage from

01:25:39last month

01:25:40he said

01:25:40quote if

01:25:42teenage boys

01:25:42together in

01:25:43an all boys

01:25:44school haven't

01:25:45been brutal in

01:25:45some ways in

01:25:46the late

01:25:461970s I'd

01:25:48be very

01:25:48very surprised

01:25:49no no

01:25:50no no

01:25:50no

01:25:51that was me

01:25:52at the end

01:25:53one of his

01:25:54contemporaries

01:25:55called it

01:25:55a nonpology

01:25:59no no

01:26:00no

01:26:00that's all

01:26:01I've got

01:26:01on Farage

01:26:02that's it

01:26:03for this

01:26:03week

01:26:03oh

01:26:04apart from

01:26:05the credits

01:26:05the producer

01:26:06was Millie Chu

01:26:07the assistant

01:26:08producer was

01:26:08Hugh Sheehan

01:26:09the production

01:26:10manager was

01:26:11Francesca Bassett

01:26:11the music in

01:26:12this series was

01:26:13by Miguel de

01:26:14Oliveira

01:26:14the executive

01:26:15producer was

01:26:16Aaron Fellows

01:26:16this is a

01:26:17Mindhouse Studios

01:26:18production for

01:26:19Spotify

01:26:20the bu

01:26:20a

Stewart Lee - 2026-03-24 - LTP [couchtripper]

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