00:00President Trump says talks are happening. Iran says no, they are not. Who do you believe?
00:05Well, I have a new word for you. In addition to taco, how about caco? Congress always chickens
00:11out. All those parties you were just mentioning who may or may not be talking to each other do
00:17not include Congress and they do not include the American people. Maybe they include our allies.
00:21Maybe they include Israel. Maybe they include a couple of negotiators for the Trump team,
00:26but they don't include the folks who should be authorizing or not a continuation of this war.
00:34I hope that it will end. I think there are no good hands to play, no good cards that Trump
00:41can play,
00:41but the least bad cards are to try to stop the military action now and doing it three ways with
00:48Israel too would be a good thing. Not blaming Israel, but including Israel in a decision to stop. I think
00:54that would be very welcome. Well, that would be awfully important, right, Jane? I'm glad that
00:59you're with us right now. We didn't realize this would drop right while you joined us, but indeed
01:03Axios is reporting that J.D. Vance spoke on the phone with Benjamin Netanyahu about components of
01:10a possible agreement. What could that call have included? The conventional wisdom so far is that
01:15Israel has very different objectives than the U.S. and may not be compelled to stand down at this point
01:20in time. Well, that is the conventional wisdom, but nothing about this war has been conventional.
01:27Israel has a slightly different agenda, which seems to me to be destroying all possible
01:36proxies of Iran that surround Israel, especially Hezbollah. But nonetheless, a deal, including some
01:43agreement by Israel to stand down on that agenda, I think would be more powerful and could last longer.
01:49I think our former allies in the region would really welcome it. And maybe even Congress would
01:56not go on recess and stick until it can formalize something. Let's remember, Joe, that the
02:03authorization to use military force does have a 60-day carve-out, which gives latitude to the
02:08president. I think those 60 days are going to expire while Congress is on recess. And, you know,
02:14hello, Congress, Jane to Congress, where are you? This is your responsibility.
02:21Well, so, Jane, if we're thinking about Congress here, of course, Congress should be, potentially is
02:27going to be in the position very soon to have to make a decision as to whether or not to
02:30send the
02:31Pentagon an additional $200 billion in funding, in part to prosecute this war, in part to replenish
02:36stockpiles of munitions we've been expending throughout the duration of this more than
02:39three-week-long conflict. Is that the time in which we could actually see Congress step up?
02:45Do you think it may not be a request so easily granted that the Pentagon and the White House are
02:49making? Well, Congress does have the power of the purse. Let's understand that our defense budget is
02:56already a trillion dollars, higher than it's ever been. And the president was proposing another $500
03:03billion add to that. And I don't know if the $200 is on top of the $500. So he's almost
03:09doubling it.
03:10And what is this going for? I mean, some of us, I chaired recently the Commission on National Defense
03:15Strategy, and we said that the dip, the defense industrial base was weak and needed to be replenished.
03:22A lot of this money has to go there. And oh, by the way, one of the things we just
03:26destroyed,
03:27unfortunately, is our soft power by defunding a number of agencies and functions of our government.
03:33Soft power is our diplomacy. Soft power is our development aid. And where's the money going
03:37to be to rebuild that? Because, boy, are we going to need that once this mistake is ended.
03:45Jane, you've spent a career around diplomacy. And I'm wondering what you think of this idea of
03:53the president sharing control of the Strait of Hormuz with the new Ayatollah. What type of agreement
04:01would govern such action? Stay tuned, Joe. I really don't know. I would think that a lot of
04:10countries in the world, in fact, most of them would have a stake in this, too, when all of a
04:14sudden
04:14giving some agency to us, if we are a reliable partner, might be something they would entertain.
04:23But I don't know what the contours are. I would hesitate to say, and this is international water.
04:30And, you know, sadly, the geography is such that Iran easily can get control over it. But it's
04:36international water. So I would think some international group would have to say this makes
04:40some sense.
04:42Well, when we consider the Strait of Hormuz and the economic choke point it has become,
04:46which Iran is still effectively exercising control over, Jane, I just wonder if so long
04:54as the Strait of Hormuz can operate in that capacity, in that Iran is able to effectively
04:59choke it off when they so choose, if even a diplomatic outcome is not going to be enough to
05:04assuage shippers, specifically those operating the vessels, that it's going to maintain safe
05:10passage, that it can be safely protected, knowing Iran could make the decision at any moment for
05:15that no longer to be the case.
05:17Well, that's a risk, isn't it? Did we think about that before we started this action,
05:23however many days it was, three or four weeks ago? I wonder if we did. I wonder if the president
05:29was fully considered this or if the team he consulted fully considered this. I mean,
05:34saying, I have a feeling that the time is right, doesn't seem to me to be a very thoughtful,
05:39detailed decision about consequences. And this is a very serious consequence. And oh, by the way,
05:44Carg Island, where there's also conversation, we could take it over, is 300 miles away from the
05:50Strait of Hormuz. Not exactly contiguous, and I'm not exactly sure what taking it over now would
05:56get us, except for a high risk that there could be casualties to our military if we put boots on
06:03the
06:03ground. Well, if we can get back to your original premise, which I believe is Congress always
06:08chickens out. Jane, what's about to happen, if anything, to DHS? This is a Department of Homeland
06:14Security that's about to set a record for its closure. And the president is dispatching ICE agents
06:20to airports to back up TSA agents who are not getting paid. Is that leverage to reopen? Or could
06:27that, in fact, spoil things for Democrats to the point where we do set a record?
06:33Well, unclear, Joe. I mean, the idea of ICE agents, maybe unmasked, that's an improvement,
06:39in airports collecting data on the people in lines. Data for what is a little scary, as in a lot
06:47scary.
06:48Should Congress buck the president here and fund THS, TSA? You bet it should. And there are proposals
06:56in both parties to do this. But I gather the president is holding back the Republican Party
07:01from doing it. Should there be reforms to ICE? Absolutely. And I think members of Congress would
07:08support this. So hello, Congress, caco, don't chicken out. Step up and do the right thing for
07:14your constituents. You'll be rewarded if you do this. You'll be punished if you don't.
07:20Well, so who, Jane, do you expect will ultimately bear the brunt of that punishment? If it's President
07:26Trump who has rejected a deal that a Republican majority leader brought to him, does that actually
07:31shift the trajectory of blame away from Democrats, who obviously were demanding the changes causing
07:37this shutdown, to the Republican Party as the midterms get closer?
07:41Well, the problem we're having is that the business model, which used to be work together
07:47to solve hard problems for the country, has morphed into blame the other side. And if we're only playing
07:53the blame game, we're going to get nowhere. And yeah, maybe Republicans will be punished more than
07:57Democrats. But I'm going to stand in one of those lines later this week. I'm not going to feel great
08:03about it. And I'm just saying that I think if I were a member of Congress now, I can't say
08:09I missed
08:09the job right now. If I were a member of Congress right now, I'd want to be solving this hard
08:14problem.
08:15There are solutions. And just keeping the government closed or this portion of the government closed and
08:20making people suffer doesn't leap out as as as the best option.
08:25Well, we know that John Thune went to the president to try to end this shutdown yesterday
08:30and said he'd had Republican votes to support funding all of DHS except ICE.
08:35The president said no. How much longer does that mean
08:41the department will be closed, realizing that he wants this tied to the Save America Act?
08:46Well, I think the Save America Act is really unpopular, including with Republicans.
08:51I mean, I think absentee ballots back in the day when I was running for Congress were the way
08:56Republicans won races. And I don't think Republican governors want their secretaries of state ordered
09:02or ordered around by the Trump administration. So I don't think Save is going anywhere. And John
09:08Thune, if he has enough votes, should just pass the thing over the president with a veto proof majority.
09:15And then it's done. You know, John Thune, Kako, please do it. And I'm not sure Democrats will agree to
09:23his proposal, but there is some proposal, I would imagine, if they work together, that would get a
09:29veto proof majority in the Senate. And same thing for Mike Johnson. He seems a little more reticent.
09:35But but hey, you know, if you want to get reelected, you have to be able to accomplish something
09:40in your in your term. Well, Jane, I know you've repeatedly called out to Congress in your time
09:47with us today. I'm not sure if anyone in Congress is going to heed those calls, knowing Mike Johnson
09:52doesn't just have this challenge. There's also the challenge of FISA renewal. And I ask you, as the
09:56former ranking member on House Intelligence, how how difficult this may become in the weeks ahead?
10:03Well, difficult. I think every single thing there is difficult. And I think one of the things that is
10:08really painful is the the the weakness of our intelligence community. Now, FISA is a key piece
10:17of our ability to keep America safe. FISA needed reform over time. We did reform it to some extent.
10:24But again, Kako, Congress has got to get in the game and not just let things expire and then throw
10:29up its hands. And we need strong people heading our intelligence community. We have some we lack others.
10:36And, you know, as one of the people after 9-11 who was there and who worked on a bipartisan
10:42basis
10:43to put our put America in a stronger position. This is absolutely heartbreaking and really reckless.
Comments