- 10 hours ago
Dragons Den UK S23E05
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00:02the doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:11but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up
00:19and steal the deals tonight i'm jenny meek i'm a serial entrepreneur i'm currently the
00:27co-founder and ceo over five beauty jenna welcome back to the den no thank you for having me back
00:33i'm
00:33excited for today when i look in the eyes of an entrepreneur there's literally one thing i'm
00:38looking for it's their belief that their idea is gonna succeed i can see in people's eyes if they're
00:43lying to me i know exactly what i can bring to a business so if there's a fight for an
00:47investment
00:48i will be absolutely fighting for it i love disagreeing with the dragons i really really do
00:53i am not scared of any of the dragons if anything they should be scared of me
01:08i'm zahira my business is called hattie i want to start a movement of human connection
01:15and my pitch starts in quite a unique way i'm just trying to throw the dragons a little bit
01:22off kilter
01:26okay absolutely no idea zero idea i'm stuck there's something a bit eerie about it there
01:35is something a bit eerie
01:40my perfect match in a dragon for my business would be stephen he understands like the millennium
01:46generation the gen z generation can really get us front and center
02:18and then we're making it up
02:18and then we're making it up
02:19so
02:19so
02:19hello dragons i'm zee and i'm the founder of hattie we are gathered here today to finally lay
02:26to rest traditional dating apps because for those of us like myself who are in such a real human
02:32connection they've wasted enough of our time now before i tell you any more i wanted to give you
02:38a quick question i can either continue to pitch this to you myself or i can put the rest of
02:44the
02:44pitch up on the screen behind me lay in this coffin and allow you to read it the choice is
02:49yours
02:50i'd say get in the coffin you should never ask that of a dragon we're all gonna say get in
02:56the
02:56coffin okay i'm really gonna need you to let to let me pitch this to you please rather than just
02:59reading all right go on no we'd love to hear from you instead yeah it would have been really awkward
03:04if you actually wanted me to get in the coffin because let's face it you'd never make a business
03:08decision over text alone so why are we dating that way 80 of users of traditional dating
03:14apps are emotionally burnt out by them and i should know because i'm one of them after deleting them
03:20for what felt like the hundredth time i hit my absolute breaking point and from the ashes of my
03:25absolute despair at that point hattie was born the online dating industry is potentially worth over
03:31nine billion dollars and yet today only 15 to 20 of matches ever turn into a two-way conversation
03:38on hattie we're completely flipping the script instead every single match will turn into a five-minute
03:44scheduled voice or video call so once you connect there's no messaging there's no dialing in there's
03:50no scheduling the app automatically does it for you there's no exchanging numbers the app calls you
03:54both at the right time and connects you after the call you choose you can speak to that person again
04:00or end the match forever we launched on the 14th of february we made revenue in 10 days and we've
04:06already grown to over 5 000 downloads today i'm offering you the opportunity to invest 150 000
04:13pounds for five percent of a business that will become the next unicorn dragons this isn't just an
04:19investment in an app it's an investment in re-humanizing the way that we find love are you in
04:25you're gonna have to wait to find out i was i was really hoping you're just going to go straight
04:30to yes
04:34looking to spark a connection with a dragon is online romance revolutionary
04:40zaheira and her next generation dating app the entrepreneur is seeking 150 000 pounds for a five
04:49percent share in her business first to lean in with a question is deborah meaden
04:59um so so i'm sorry i didn't catch your name did you say z z well my full name is
05:05zaheara but everyone
05:05calls me zaheara that's lovely uh z okay so i mean the idea sounds great um just explain where you
05:13are
05:14with the business at the moment what's your revenue model and how much money have you made today i'm
05:18assuming you mean february the 14th this year right so it is it is quite new brand new and like
05:25my whole point was launching it was to prove that there is a different revenue model you can have
05:29against a dating app so some of the traditional ones took anywhere between two and five years to
05:33monetize so one of the ways we make revenue is through booking dates dates through the app so we
05:39get a commission for every date that's been booked the other way is we've integrated with dating coaching
05:44and mental health because my philosophy isn't just get people on better dates it's actually make
05:49people better data so we also get commission from any dating coaching that's been booked through the
05:54app and then eventually we want to trial things like minimum subscription so it's everyone and it's not
05:58a lot it's like 2.99 a month is that the longest version of you saying it's pre-revenue that
06:03i have
06:03ever heard in my life so we've only made about 48 pounds of revenue so far all of those words
06:09you
06:10gave were good and really interesting but your free revenue really yeah okay so you've got 5 000 people
06:16signed up how many of those are actually active users so it varies on the day we've had about 17
06:21and a half thousand like sent we've had a hundred phone calls um but a lot of people have now
06:27run out
06:27people to actually go on a date with so we largely grew through like organic tick tock um so we
06:33had
06:33a couple of videos go massively viral um just me explaining the concept but then you get users all
06:38over the country you don't just get them in london which is a real problem because really it's this
06:42is hyper localized right so you want to launch in london and then scale it um so yeah um z
06:49i am i have a
06:50lot of experience in this industry i've spent some time with the the founder and ceo of hinge i've also
06:56spent some time with the ceo of tinder good friends with the ceo of bumble so this is a very
07:02difficult challenge right and a lot of everything you've said about people's dismay and dissatisfaction
07:06with dating apps is so unbelievably true i hear it all the time from everybody and i would just hate
07:11to be on the dating dating app circuit and that video that went viral yeah what were you saying in
07:18the video literally just me explaining the concept and what part of it was resonant i think a it's very
07:24novel right we've completely scrapped messaging the app auto schedules you a five minute call with
07:29your date but um so i think there's a couple of things in the community aspect of it of like
07:34we
07:34will only accept people on there who are willing to actually get verified and also we have a ghosting
07:39penalty so if people don't turn up they get banned from up and i think that's resonating for a lot
07:44of
07:44reasons right now because the younger generation are demanding more the gen z lot who are like no we
07:49want human connection like they want raw authenticity in a way that i don't think the traditional dating
07:55apps have so you're you're the anti-dating app you've taken every feature that people hate about
08:01the traditional dating environment and basically you're trying to do the opposite so there's a narrative
08:09there z z um you've come in with a three million valuation and a project that's been worked on for
08:15a few months how can you justify that so part of the reason for that is i've got a letter
08:21of intent from
08:22an investor at four and a half million but i completely recognize how much value you would all bring to
08:28the table how much is that investor going to bring 150k yeah i think you should have signed that and
08:34got
08:34that money then you wouldn't have needed to come here i think this is still an incredible opportunity
08:41though right like whether i walk out with money or the chance to just have interacted with all of you
08:45no i do but i think i think it's you've come in with a valuation of of three million and
08:51your pre-revenue
08:52you you can't for one minute have thought that that wouldn't be fairly controversial
08:59i agree it is yeah so i want to what about you what have you done from a business perspective
09:05because that would justify why have you done something from a business perspective before and
09:11made millions from the seed of an idea no so how do you where do you get the valuation and
09:17what's the
09:17reason and rationale for the valuation because it's quite punchy i think so part of it is that
09:23what i'm looking for the 154 is really to get to 100 000 users and then assuming that one percent
09:29of
09:29our user base book a therapy session once a month that's 25 pounds for every therapy session that gets
09:35booked so that gives you 25k a month in revenue from that we then get between three and 12 pounds
09:41per
09:42date and if you assume that 10 percent of our date date like user base goes on one date you
09:47make
09:48another like 50 grand from just commission from that so for me like yes the valuation is high but i
09:54think for me there's a huge growth opportunity here and it's about looking at the future growth of the
09:59business you see um i've never used that they have um and the numbers you're talking about commissions are
10:09in relation to to where you're going it's very small get a percentage of a um of a date get
10:17a
10:17percentage of therapy that's not going to make that those bits are not going to make the next unicorn
10:27so for that reason i'm going to let you carry on with the other dregs i'm out
10:32well i really appreciate your time thanks tuka zee hi hi um this is a world to me that i
10:41i just
10:42don't understand tech they talk about building it up at work and then oh it blows my mind
10:47and so for that reason i am out but i wish you the best of luck i appreciate it
10:52and zee i think this is a market that's that's clearly very overcrowded
10:58um it's not something that i would want to invest in so i'm going to say that i'm out
11:04but it's not a reflection of you as an individual for the way you've presented
11:09thank you i absolutely echo that you've presented really really well and i feel like anything that
11:15you came up with you will find a way to make it successful um i have a bit of a
11:21worry for you
11:21paper my worry is you are working in a space where a lot of your competitors have to win so
11:28if you
11:28do find that magic combination that says ah that's where we earn our money your competitors
11:37are in a in a situation where they can just say oh that's working okay let's do it
11:43that is a big risk for you so i'm really sorry but i won't be investing i'm out
11:52see this is a i think this is a really perfect business for me because i'm particularly interested
11:58in community loneliness and how technology can solve that at scale um
12:08yeah putting like 150 grand bet on this at this point
12:17is just like too high of a bet to make can i convince you of one data point what's that
12:22do you know tim ferris yeah so tim ferris went on the modern wisdom podcast last year and he said
12:28can
12:29someone just build a dating app where the sole purpose is a 10 minute voice or video call we did
12:34five that's just the our thought process but he is one of the best tech investors in silicon valley
12:42i think even if you don't want to invest today and i can completely understand why
12:45what i would love is if you do know tim ferris an introduction to him and simon sinek because
12:50simon sinek is actually one of my biggest inspirations for this because he always talks about the eight minute call
13:06just give me a minute
13:13it's a big problem i understand the problem
13:23um i am gonna make you an offer
13:24uh however if i'm investing 150 000 pounds in a business at this stage which i consider to be
13:34with all due respect an idea
13:38i consider myself basically a partner in the business
13:43um okay so you asked for 150 000 for five percent of your business
13:50i will make you an offer to give you all of the money for
14:0435 percent of the business
14:07vampire as you as you would call me i call everybody but it's just there's just no there's
14:10just no i just can't see another way
14:13okay well somebody just turned in their grave in the in the box
14:19um would you go down to 20 percent
14:26no i wouldn't
14:2930.
14:3432 and a half and we've got a deal
14:36oh come on stephen 30. come on come on stephen
14:42come on go on i know this even the dragons want you to do this come on
14:54thank you thank you so much after a tense back and forth zahira seals the deal i'll see you soon
15:04and with stephen bartlett now on board her dating app just found its perfect match
15:14it is one of the greatest opportunities that i've ever had in my life
15:18i think it is utterly incredible that the dragon i want wanted me
15:39i'm james martin and i'm from harrogate in north yorkshire
15:42we wanted to create something where people could enjoy the great outdoors in a bit of luxury
15:48it's called glorning which means glorning is a lawn isn't it i feel like it's glumping but that you
15:56buy the tent well they're really readily available we've got one of those to be fair it doesn't have
16:02the awning the what so the awning is the bit between the tent and the car so that's an awning
16:07yeah but it goes with glorning it was completely lost on you wasn't it stephen when peter said
16:12100 lost on me
16:16i'm passionate about the business and i've started to invent some new products
16:20so this i think is a really exciting time and a great time for dragons to come on board
16:32hi dragons my name is james and i'm here today seeking an investment of 60 000 pounds in return
16:40for a 10 percent share of my business glorning we aim to redefine what it means to go camping
16:47it all started when i was on a camper van holiday with my wife we had the freedom of the
16:51open road
16:52and we had the world's most miserable awning attached to the side of our camper van it was
16:57boiling hot when the sun came out it was freezing cold the rest of the time and it flapped around
17:02like a tent possessed worse of all it was really really boring so we decided we're going to do
17:07something about it and we created the glorning which is a glamorous canvas awning that can be
17:13attached to the side of a camper van caravan motorhome or large vehicle it can also be
17:18used as a standalone tent by zipping off the connecting canopy since we launched we have
17:24achieved net revenue after v80 of just over 4.3 million pounds and we also have our own festival
17:32which attracts around 2 000 people every year but this is just the beginning we now want to build
17:37a go-to camping lifestyle brand we have some fantastic new products in the pipeline
17:44and we believe that these are going to open up massive new markets and we'd love for you guys to
17:49be
17:49on that journey with us so dragons i invite you now to join us on the glorning revolution
17:56a glammed up camping classic which attaches canvas to camper van or caravan is the brainchild of james
18:04martin please feel free to come and take a look at the product
18:07oh wow after you thank you this is nice oh it's quite big the entrepreneur is seeking 60 000
18:18pounds in exchange for a 10 share in his business so this is a bell tent so really the unique
18:26bit
18:26is the attachment is the attachment it's the awning isn't it normally that would be closed off yes yeah
18:33first to take a closer look at what's on offer is seasoned camper jenna meek
18:43hi james hi um so i love caravanning as a kid i used to always caravan with my parents
18:49and each time we got away i'd be like are you putting the awning up because then there'd be
18:53arguments because it took so long to put this awning up so how difficult is this one to put up
18:58how long
18:58it took well that's one of the reasons we chose a bell tent as the as the kind of base
19:03tent because
19:04they're very easy to put up and it's usually about eight and a half minutes on my own to to
19:08go from
19:09start to finish okay and you mentioned this 4.3 million so what is the current business architecture
19:17right now are you selling these at festivals or have you got another company that is a you mentioned a
19:22festival what have you sold to make 4.3 million yes so the 4.3 million is is solely to
19:28do with the
19:29the lawning business so 75 of sales come online and about 25 at festivals we do have a festival
19:37we run that as a separate company so the first year we did that was 2017 and we had about
19:41150 people
19:43and then it's just grown year on year and there's now about 2 000 people come along to that so
19:47that
19:47has a separate turnover with its own profit james do you do you buy these individually or separately
19:54you buy them separately so you buy the the base tent and then you buy your connecting canopy and that
20:00varies in size so we do a standard height one which will fit on the likes of of the transporter
20:04which is
20:05here and then we do a high top version which will go on caravans motorhomes and bigger vehicles and uh
20:11we now do an inflatable one which we've we've just launched but we haven't got them in stock yet but
20:15we've kind of sold half of them already okay so when did you start this i came up with the
20:21product
20:21in 2013 at the time i was actually running a startup law firm so i was my focus kind of
20:28wasn't on this
20:28okay so are these sort of like side hustles for you and you're a you're a lawyer by day so
20:36that at
20:37the start it was a side hustle then it started to do pretty well right so you're now doing this
20:41full-time yes
20:48yeah so i'm assuming um you're buying this in from china yeah so there's no barriers to entry on this
20:58if i wanted to do this i pick up the phone yeah and within 12 weeks i'd have it in
21:04my warehouse
21:05yeah well we do have design rights on this particular configuration yeah but your design right might be
21:10you've got 24 inches higher but something similar i can get yeah i mean there have been people who
21:17have tried to copy it um i'm not going to copy i'm just going to ring up my my my
21:22team in china and i
21:23pick the ones i want easy as that
21:29james yes um on the 4.3 million in revenue you've generated over the last is it 10 roughly 10
21:35years
21:35just over 10 years yeah um what's the the net profit been the cumulative net profit about 150 000.
21:41okay um so hmm so when i when i look at the business it doesn't look very investable because um
21:55if i were to invest 60 000 pounds say say it was for 10 or in that region it would
22:00take some time based
22:01on the profits being generated in the business to ever get a return so how does a return happen in
22:07this business if the cumulative net profit over the last decade has been 150k so my plan is now to
22:14build
22:14the business on innovation primarily uh we have some great new products in the pipeline so we've got one
22:21that we've just recently released uh which is the the inflatable version of the glorning we've already
22:28sold half of those and we should sell the others fairly quickly i also have a um applied for a
22:36patent for a new design which i think is going to be a game changer so there's future innovation coming
22:42which i'm betting on yes versus what i see here and the business in front of me i always it's
22:49always
22:49a bit of an amber flag for me when an entrepreneur says to not invest in the thing in front
22:54of me but
22:54in something that is coming for me i'm always like i want to invest in i can tell you about
23:00it uh yeah
23:02as i say the patent that we've just applied for um is something that i think will take this to
23:09the
23:09next level what is that patent so it's for a roof box which has a an inflatable awning integrated within
23:18the inside of it you open the roof box you plug into your 12 volt you press a button and
23:23the awning
23:24inflates out of the side of the van and so it's taking the pain points of having to get the
23:28awning
23:28out of its bag connect the pump up pump it up line it all up with the van connect it
23:34all of that is
23:34is kind of done and is that a patent or a design patent that's a patent that's a patent yeah
23:41these
23:41are just design rights but that's a patent see james that's so much more exciting than this yes yeah
23:48yeah i wish you could have come in and at least demonstrated that yeah well it's even if it was
23:53in a prototype shape or form because that that could be investable yeah but this is this is just a
24:00a tent it's tough um where are you in your patent we've applied for it and when uh yesterday
24:12i'm right okay so well i wanted to get it in and have it applied for so you have no
24:17idea whether
24:18or not somebody else is going to pop their head up and said i actually did that about 10 years
24:21ago no
24:26james it's um there's quite a lot of frustration here and it also feels a little bit disingenuous
24:36because you only applied for a patent yesterday so it feels like i've got this inflatable idea
24:46let's quickly pivot let's get this invention because i know they like patents i'm just going to have a
24:51go that's how it feels it feels a bit disingenuous the pitch now with what you just said yeah why
24:57is it
24:57if this is something that you've been working on and something you've been thinking about
25:01why did you apply yesterday for a patent well i did i did bring it forward to yesterday so i
25:07would
25:07have the pattern applied for but i wonder whether your pitch could have been much better james it
25:13could have been you know i've spent the last eight years of my life creating the perfect awning
25:18and i've given up being a lawyer to focus on this but i've got a seed of an incredible idea
25:24that i
25:24think is going to make millions and it's called the inflatable roof box awning i've now got a patent
25:32dragons yeah and all of a sudden i've got a different i've got a different pitch yeah i genuinely i
25:38think we'd be fighting over who invested sadly i'm going to say that i'm out okay but i i encourage
25:46you
25:46if you do get the patent um please come straight to me and i'll deal with you directly thank you
25:53peter
25:57james i always sit here trying to figure out whether the entrepreneur is selling me
26:01a measurable past or a hypothetical future yeah so i'm trying to piece together from what you're saying
26:06what what i would actually be investing in because it's not in the den today i'm a big fan of
26:11the
26:11inflatable idea if you if i tried to put up a tent like this it would end up looking like
26:15a sleeping
26:15bag but um for me as an investment proposition it's not for me so i'm going to say that i'm
26:19out
26:20okay thank you stephen
26:25james um i think it's quite cool i think it's um i think it's actually quite it's one of those
26:31innovations you think why didn't somebody do it before it feels so obvious very simple very simple
26:36absolutely had you been further down the route of the patent i might well have been
26:42more inclined to invest to be honest but right now i've got a clue i haven't got a clue whether
26:47or
26:48not tomorrow 27 people go yeah no i i did that 10 years ago and neither have you so i'm
26:56afraid i won't
26:56be investing um and and i'm out but i really do wish you all the best i really do thank
27:03you
27:05james um i take care
27:11it's a shame because
27:17innovation came quite late in the pitch so today unfortunately it's not investable but i wish you
27:29the best blum out james hi so i really wish i could have helped you right do your pitch because
27:35you came in and you said i've got this tent and i've got this vessel but the festival's a different
27:39business or actually if you come in and being like my vision is to own this this world and you've
27:46got this
27:47community of 2 000 people at your fingertips at a festival in real life i'm like oh my god there's
27:54something there when you're not seeing the two together and how that is the start of what could
27:59be something huge because you cannot replicate community i think for me it's about going away and
28:07understanding with this community that you've already got start there ask some questions hey how
28:13can we develop this how can we make this one better who's interested in the inflatable and try and
28:18understand how can you be that camper van business of solution and make it easier for the customers
28:24that want this life that you're trying to sell because i want it i've been looking at camper buns
28:28then you will just fly because i think this is really cool and i would want my camper van to
28:33look
28:33like this when i do get one um but it's not an investment for me so i am out okay
28:38thank you thank you
28:39very much thank you dragons good luck cheers cheers that's it for james the dragons admired his
28:47creativity but felt the focus had been on the wrong product and he leaves the den with nothing
28:56yes that was intense peter gave a great alternative pitch which in hindsight would be lovely to have done
29:03but it's it's hard to know what they're going to focus on and what they're going to build on so
29:07hey hey onwards and upwards
29:28we want some water yeah let's do this i'm connor i'm harry and we're two of the founders of club
29:34cultured cheers cheers mate and we make delicious premium high quality ferments and pickles
29:41we're in the den we're going to get the deal we want the missus don't like the smell of kimchi
29:47and
29:48we close all the time but it's all right we're dedicated we're we're here we're doing the work
29:52kimchi oh fermented foods fermented foods yeah very good for the gut microbiome very good
30:01ready bro all right love you we've done our research on the dragons and we know they're
30:08into gut health we know they're big foodies and they've made a series of food investments before
30:14that's what we've been waiting for so we're just super excited to get into the den and share our
30:20products and our business with them
30:31you all right dragons how's it going dragons hello what if we told you there's a fermented food brand
30:36that produces proteins sides and sauces well we're the founders of that brand club cultured i'm harry
30:43that's connor and our journey began in our business partner james's back garden where we turned an old
30:49fridge into a diy fermenter and made our first batch of tempeh since then we have built a delicious range
30:55of premium plant-based ferments and pickles crafted by a chef who's trained in michelin star kitchens
31:01that deliver bold flavors and known gut health benefits we believe food that does good should taste
31:07amazing too that's why our naturally fermented and pickled products such as our umami rich kimchi to
31:13tangy krauts and punchy sauces are designed to slot effortlessly into your daily meals
31:17making gut health easy and enjoyable we've produced and sold over 200 000 kilos generated 1.4 million in
31:25sales and supply some of the uk's biggest food brands after maxing out our second site we moved
31:31into our brand new four and a half thousand square foot fermentation facility in norfolk we make everything
31:37in house giving us total control over quality flavor and consistency we're now forecasting to hit four
31:46and a half million in sales in 2028 with a deep pipeline spanning across manufacturing food service
31:51and retail we're here today to ask for a 50 000 pound investment in exchange for three and a half
31:56percent
31:56equity into our brand so connor's prepared some delicious samples for you guys we have some tempeh sushi
32:03rolls and some kimchi pancakes and there's some little temples of the pickles and ferments for you to
32:07try as well a range of gut friendly pickles and ferments including tempeh a traditional indonesian
32:16staple made from soybeans is the proposition from harry watmo and connor jordan i'm not sure everyone's
32:24spice tolerances but the red one obviously has some chili in it so don't go eating the whole pot in
32:28one go
32:29the pair are seeking 50 000 pounds in exchange for a three and a half percent share in their company
32:36that smell that's that is amazing thank you it was um i bought it in uh selfridges
32:42i'll show you the bottle if you want oh the kimchi yeah it's a kimchi
32:47their products may smell and taste the part really good but will their enterprise prove just as appetizing
33:02as you can see it's a little bit more than you can see it's a little bit more than you
33:10can see it
33:10but i don't understand do you sell the tempeh or are you just giving that to me we supply that
33:19the
33:19ones in the sleeves there is tempeh so we actually when we first discovered tempeh
33:23we taught ourselves how to make it and after a while we didn't know what was doing was losing
33:26batches was working night shifts taking it home nothing was working so it's like we need to find
33:31the tempeh yoda so we went to indonesia for a week's training learned how to make it properly
33:36and we pride ourselves on making indonesian gray tempeh really doing homage to the quality of that
33:41product and if you look at the reviews on our website it's consistently the same comments what
33:45like people say it's the best tempeh i've ever had connor harry um really interesting business i'm a big
33:52gut microbiome fan yes what are your backgrounds and what brought you to the gut microbiome world
33:58let's go first so we're we've known each other since we were five years old my background is i
34:03didn't do particularly great at school but my love was was cooking so i went to college and uh done
34:09three years professional chef's diploma and then i got work experience in the ritz hotel in london
34:15and i ended up going there two weeks after i left college at 18 i stayed there for six years
34:20and then my background so um i also left school at 16 got a job at a stockbroker's worked there
34:26for
34:26six years and our other business partner james we're best friends from year seven at school we
34:30worked with each other from 19 to 22 on the same desk we realized that life wasn't for us went
34:35traveling for 18 months where we sort of first discovered kimchi tempeh and we just fell in love
34:40with it and then when we came back to england we could just see that everything was really processed
34:44and we felt like you know there's a huge opportunity for fermented foods and um we went for it so
34:51if
34:51i'm looking at this business from a financial perspective yeah what year does it really begin
34:55for you 2020 was when the first year we did manufacturing okay so let's go from 2020 yeah
35:00give me the revenue and that yeah so 90k revenue a loss of 44k 44 yeah yeah following year was
35:06275k
35:08a loss of 73 yeah the following year after that was 342k and the loss of 123 and the year
35:15after that
35:15was 359k and a loss of 104k and then last year was 253k and a loss of 83. you've lost
35:24probably almost
35:26400 000 pounds since the business's inception yeah where is that money come from uh so we've had
35:32investors so we've raised just under half a million since we started and for kitting out our last space
35:38we took out a loan ourselves to fund that the kit out for our move to norfolk so you've raised
35:42500k
35:43for investors yeah and how much of the business do you guys still own 56 56 between three of you
35:49yeah
35:49okay and you've taken a loan of what uh so that last loan it was 225k and the outstanding amount
35:55we
35:55have left is 174 000 and how much cash have you got in the bank uh about 85k okay and
36:01what are
36:01you forecasting for this year uh this year 450 000 and a net profit of 22 and a half and
36:08what are you
36:08how are you tracking so far for this year uh we've done about 75k so far this year but we
36:13actually had
36:13a new big customer come visit us two days ago we have some big contracts lined up for them
36:20so for me it looks like the business is going down rather than up so what's the goal what are
36:26you
36:26trying to do so for us it's been the leader in the in the industry in uk manufacturing for these
36:31products but you need to do about 100x compared to where you are don't you to be able to do
36:36that
36:36yeah but we're confident we can build our brand position as well as on the food service side
36:42but my big thing here is that if you want to try and get half a million in sales
36:45yeah you haven't got the cash
36:49well we're confident with these contracts coming in that will enable us to grow
36:53and bring more about how how will you do that to how are you going to pay for it
36:58well we're confident with what we've got at the moment and we have other investors who said before
37:02when it gets to a stage no that's the point though so what does that mean so i invest today
37:0750k
37:08three and a half percent other investors put more money in i'm going to go down aren't i i'm going
37:12to
37:12dilute so how much money are you looking to raise in essence over the next 12 months
37:17well this would be the only money we've raised over the next 12 months that's not enough i think
37:21it will be enough it's not enough it definitely isn't enough because you've raised 500 you've
37:28nearly spent all of that you're out of cash you've only got cash in your business because you've got
37:34170 000 pounds of a loan you have no cash you're currently insolvent well today our current cash
37:41position is 85 000 yeah i know but you owe 174 you can't afford to pay the loan back so
37:46i'm putting in
37:4650 000 into a business it's already hasn't got enough cash to pay back its debts it's not a good
37:53good investment guys so i'm gonna have to say sadly that i'm out but i wish you every bit of
38:02luck and
38:02your product does taste beautiful stunning great chef thank you very much can i ask when you're going
38:11to be making 400 000 pounds profit in a single year no as a as a cumulative uh so by
38:192026 uh we're
38:21forecasting 1 million and a net profit of 200 and then the following year 2.5 million and a net
38:27of 375
38:27so between those next two and a bit years okay so in two years you'll have made up your losses
38:33yeah okay
38:36um i really really want to invest in this
38:43actually i'm gonna be quiet
38:49hi um i'll just tell you where i am because i think i think you guys are great and you've
38:54done
38:54everything to make a beautiful beautiful product but you've got a lot of experts in here that are
38:59probably is very clued up on this stuff i am probably is your more mass market customer here
39:04because i go into holland and barrett and i don't know what i'm going for and then i walk out
39:07with 20
39:08prebiotics i think as an investor to actually help you i wouldn't really be able to do much um
39:14so for that reason i am out but i wish you all the best thank you thank you jenna
39:20harry and connor i love the fact that you are very knowledgeable
39:29but today you've not convinced me to say this is an investable opportunity at three and a half percent
39:39for that reason guys i'm not going to invest them out thank you for your comments
39:46i'm also going to tell you where i am my fridge is full of this stuff and um i had
39:52a little bit of a
39:53thought on the brand club culture because i realized that all of the items that i have the kimchi that
39:58i
39:58have in my fridge looks authentic to its native country and i think this has been branded as if
40:07it's a mass market product but kimchi isn't quite there yet so there's something about looking it
40:12looking authentic to its native country that has made it more compelling that's made it look real
40:18versus it looking like a rave i see a business that's that has historically lost money every single
40:25year and is in decline from a revenue perspective so i'm going to say that i'm out but i wish
40:32you the
40:32very best thank you for your feedback um i actually completely disagree with steven
40:39ouch oddly there are plenty of korean looking kimchis around but the one that really has broken through
40:48isn't a korean looking kimchi yeah it it looks like a product a pickled product you know it's so
40:55so it's sort of recognizable and funnily enough i think it's it's going to be more powerful to move
41:00it out of this the sort of the shelf that is those things that other countries eat and move them
41:05onto
41:06mainstream yeah so it clearly looks like something that everybody should have in their fridge i shouldn't
41:11be worrying i shouldn't be thinking about whether or not it's good for my gut or not i'm not buying
41:14it
41:14as a medicine i'm buying it because it tastes great yeah and and i want it in my fridge
41:30the thing is
41:34i do love your story and i love that i love where this has come from and i think that
41:38will come through
41:39to the consumer and that's you know that's really important um i think i think there's a problem though
41:48and the problem is you only own 56 percent between the three of you um who's your single biggest other
41:56shareholder uh so two guys who come on previously and what to say they own between them seven percent
42:03how much seven percent each seven percent each
42:09now i i can't i don't like i don't like the whole pattern and i see this pattern of what's
42:23going
42:23ahead and this is how much cash you're going to need versus how much equity you have already given
42:29away yeah you are going to be diluted i mean i can do things that stops me being diluted but
42:35that
42:35isn't fair either that's not the type of that's not what i want to do um so i know we
42:40always know
42:41stop talking i know what you're doing here you're just keeping me talking so that i don't go out i
42:46know what you're doing i think it's good to keep you talking guys guys guys guys guys you're great
42:53all i can do is tell you that is a really really good product thank you um and i will
42:58be a customer
42:59but i won't be an investor no so all right thank you very much thank you very much cheers guys
43:07harry and connor must leave the den empty-handed
43:12she was tempted by their tempeh but ultimately deborah meaden couldn't be persuaded
43:18to take a punt on the pickle-loving pair
43:23that is what it is still doing it still doing it we'll shut up obviously we didn't get the deal
43:29like we hoped but lots of great feedback what's next for us is proving the dragons wrong and making
43:36them regret their decision
43:54my name's sam beanie and my business is kibu
43:58while it was a product that people have seen before it's quite unique in how we're doing things
44:05oh this looks fun headphones for kids but i feel like there's something more unique to it than
44:11that is it interchangeable yeah build your own headphones i like that
44:17it's so great when kids get the product and they get to try it and their feedback is just
44:23it really motivates you it'd be amazing to pitch in front of the dragons and show show
44:28what kibu is all about hi dragons my name is sam beanie the founder of kibu the children's headphones
44:41you build repair recycle and today i'm seeking 65 000 pounds in exchange for 10 equity in my business
44:56every year in the uk over 18 million pairs of headphones and earbuds are thrown away most aren't
45:02easily fixed especially not by kids yet kids are curious capable and love to build so why do we keep
45:09designing tech that when it breaks it gets binned at kibu we're doing things differently the kibu
45:16headphones come as a simple kit that children or fun-loving adults can build themselves no screws
45:21no glue no fiddly wires just simple parts that snap together like that and if a part breaks
45:32you only need to replace that part helping to reduce waste each pair is 3d printed in hackney london
45:39in less than 30 minutes with our proprietary 3d printing code that doesn't compromise on speed
45:45or quality the main material used is a recycled bioplastic that comes from plants like corn
45:52and when the headphones reach the end of their life the parts can be returned and recycled into new
45:57products with your investment and experience we can scale faster develop new products and shape a
46:04generation of builders not just consumers thank you
46:10a kit for kids to make their own headphones is the offering from sam beaney lovely like my clothes and
46:17color thank you it's got to be green it's got to be green he's seeking 65 000 pounds for a
46:2410 percent
46:25share in his business will sam's sonic startup hit the right note with the dragons
46:33so i'm super interesting so what really is the crux of this business are they aspiring to be really
46:38good headphones or are they aspiring to be something that teaches kids how to build things and to have
46:43a bit of fun yeah i mean we we obviously want them to be great headphones but our main goal
46:49is not to
46:50to compete with the big players when it comes to sound or things like that ultimately we're trying to
46:54deliver an experience to children and families you know it's being able to build your headphones
46:59yourselves and we hope that then when they break um kids are they're more likely to want to repair
47:04it and um and see the headphones go through their life and um is it just you involved in the
47:12business
47:12at the moment or have you got a team yes it's it's it's mainly me but there's um i have
47:16uh uh two main
47:18partners um who are helping me uh so businesses rather that are helping me so one is a 3d printing
47:24manufacturing company that i used to work for and another is an award-winning design agency
47:29and what are the total sales and when did you begin so um we did our kickstarter in um april
47:37last year
47:38um and our total sales are about 25 000 pounds uh to date um yeah sold over 450 pairs
47:49sam hi so how much do they sell for um so we sell them for 39 pounds okay and what
47:55do they cost you to
47:56make the cost us 10 pound 40 okay um and at the moment are you only on a on the
48:03crowdfund platform
48:04are you already selling into retail or on or direct to the consumer yes so so we've we're selling now
48:11um
48:11we're selling direct to consumers through our website and we'd love to get into retail and um and really
48:17try and you know explore other avenues as well so 40 pounds that's expensive you're limiting your
48:26market in retail because of that price i can't see this what i call it mainstream toy shops really
48:33okay okay but i think while the upfront price is slightly higher um the the value over the long
48:42term you know we we were speaking to parents and and they were having to replace their headphones like
48:46every year or even less than that um yeah it may cost you more up front but if parts break
48:52you know
48:53there's this route here to to fix it and make the headphones last longer
48:58sam hi i love it like i really really love it i love there's so many things i really like
49:05i opened
49:06this up and i was like oh my god my inner child is so excited to build that because it
49:11is doing exactly
49:12what you're trying to do it's it's helping kids get creative understand how to make inventions and
49:18yeah just just really really love it a few questions if i went into your social channel now
49:23what what have you done so far on social like if i'm looking at your instagram your tick tock
49:28what am i seeing so you're seeing mainly reels and posts showing the headphones and then the sort
49:35content that tends to be more popular um where the product is used so um uh guess this song kind
49:44of yeah for example but we're trying to really get into that you know the organic engine i guess
49:49that reels and tick tock any of the content gone off like have you got a lot of momentum we've
49:53we've
49:54had posts that have um you know done 50 000 kind of views um that sort of thing but i
50:02think the
50:02challenge we have is the average number of times people are seeing that content needs to be six
50:07seven times they're seeing it once in this organic post they think oh that's interesting and we're
50:12not um because we don't have the capital yet we can't like show to them again and again and try
50:17and
50:17so this is why i'm asking yeah you basically you find you've got you've got a video with the 50
50:22000
50:22views you've got a video 100 views that's amazing you've got to keep creating more and more and more
50:32keep going with it thank you yeah that's great advice like that you know we we that's what we we
50:36really need sam hello hello um i started building computers when i was a teenager i had no knowledge
50:47of it but i loved it yeah and i think this is something that kids would just love to do
50:53um so tell me about you you work for this company yeah who are the company it's this company called
51:00batch works and they mass produce things using 3d printing and you left them to start this business
51:04or what so it was really a collaboration so that they are an equity holder um along with a design
51:10agency and we actually see that as a strength so how much do they own they own 39 oh wow
51:19and you own 33 oh that means there's somebody else in here so yeah there's um a design agency
51:27who own 20 and who owns the other eight percent so we have um a web developer who owns like
51:34four
51:35percent and then there's two and a half percent that's owned by a a brand agency uh and then i
51:41believe the rest is um just a pool kind of left this is an unusual situation because you're not the
51:50majority shareholder yeah and if you were to receive an offer in here today um presumably you've agreed
51:59with your majority shareholder yeah what your parameters of an offer are yeah is that right yes
52:05and would it be from a dial would everybody dilute or does it come from your shareholding everyone's
52:10diluted everyone would dilute all right i'm going to tell you where i am there's something there is
52:26something that worries me about it sam and i and you're i really like you i think the design is
52:31really really lovely there's something that just isn't hitting the mark for me
52:37it's you know i don't like the structure of the business i really do like to be talking to a
52:42majority shareholder um uh just because i like to get a feel of where they are in all of this
52:48you
52:48know and understand if you've got a decent order how much priority that would get there's loads of
52:53questions i'd like to ask majority shareholder but they're not here today so i'm afraid i won't be
52:58investing i'm out thank you deborah sam i am i really the minute i saw it and the minute you
53:08explained what it was i um i really fell in love with the idea of it um but on a
53:13personal level maybe
53:14because i don't have kids yeah um it hasn't personally resonated with me in the same way so i'm
53:28here where i am yeah you are credible right and the product's great however this needs a lot of money
53:37yeah i think i think you need a lot more than 65 to get this out there so for that
53:44reason i'm out
53:45thank you tikka
53:49um
53:53i feel like i'm in the same place um because it's it's just very difficult to find a way to
54:02monetize it um have i missed something why you don't think it's um monetizable peter have i missed
54:11the profit on the product or yeah the the scale at the volume at 40 pounds you think that's too
54:17expensive it definitely is yeah i mean these products to kids are 9.99 yeah but i think more
54:23parents are becoming um are caring more and more about the products they give to their children i get
54:29that but that's a lot of cash to spend
54:34sam i'll tell you where i'm at so i've loved this from the start and i do think there is
54:41something here
54:42because the thing is with kids it's cult it is word of mouth and you get that right it really
54:49really works what i'm brilliant at is building a brand that people want to buy into regardless of
54:54what that product even is and that's what i feel like i can help with and i think if you're
54:58willing
54:58to work like really really really really hard like harder than you've ever worked to get this
55:03where it needs to be this could be really huge so i am going to make an offer you ask
55:10for 65 000
55:11pounds for 10 percent my offer is going to be all of the money but i want 15 of the
55:22business okay
55:23thank you very much um yeah sam
55:33i think jenna's giving you a really really good offer given the structure at 15 but that's going to
55:40be tough for me because i think you're going to need a lot of work here and a lot of
55:46money to make
55:47this business a success yeah um obviously equity is important and it matters but i think having a
55:55small part of a big thing is is better than a big part of nothing peter what about we share
56:02would you
56:03consider that yeah i would consider that i tell you what i think i'm gonna i'm gonna do two things
56:16i'm
56:16gonna give you an offer of all of the money 65 000
56:24for 20 of the business or i would be willing to share it with jenna and give you half the
56:32money for
56:3210 so i'd have 10 jenna would have 10 because i think i would have to do so much work
56:38and jenna brings
56:39so much to this party okay um i think yeah i'd love to have both of you on board that'd
56:52be all
56:52great thank you yeah it's great well done well done thank you well done yeah yeah fantastic well
57:02done appreciate thank you success for sam who secures the backing of two dragons who will help
57:10ensure his product makes waves in the world of children's headphones i didn't quite expect to get
57:16um one dragon let alone two it's just you know amazing we're in business together yes i think it
57:23could be really really exciting really good okay i need to go and plug in it does he look like
57:30a cyber
57:30man you don't watch doctor who do you he looks like a cyber man yeah i definitely don't think they
57:35fit
57:44good luck next time that one definitely isn't rubbish you're on fire with your puns peter
57:49i couldn't agree less with susie oh really this is going to be ridiculous i just know it's going to
57:55be
57:55ridiculous i'm not looking forward to your questions but i'm here now i'll come and cry on
58:02your shoulder later i've no idea why i'm engaging in this i hate this game
58:28you
58:29you
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