- 22 hours ago
Dragons Den UK S23E07
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00:00But this time, the game has changed.
00:02A fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up and steal the deals.
00:10Joining them tonight...
00:12I'm Jenna Meath. I'm a serial entrepreneur.
00:15I'm currently the co-founder and CEO of Refai Beauty.
00:18Jenna, welcome back to the den.
00:20No, thank you for having me back. I'm excited for today.
00:22When I look in the eyes of an entrepreneur, there is literally one thing I'm looking for.
00:26It's their belief that their idea is going to succeed.
00:30I can see in people's eyes if they're lying to me.
00:32I know exactly what I can bring to a business.
00:34So if there's a fight for an investment, I will be absolutely fighting for it.
00:38I love disagreeing with the dragons. I really, really do.
00:41I am not scared of any of the dragons. If anything, they should be scared of me.
00:56My name is Laura, and I'm from Northern Ireland.
00:59My business is all about oats.
01:03Instant oats?
01:06Ruddy-made oats?
01:07Yeah, but they're kind of...
01:09They exist?
01:11Yeah.
01:12Yeah.
01:14So the dragons I'm looking for investment from would be Stephen Bartlett.
01:19He would be really helpful with building that community brand, which is what we aim to do at Oatco.
01:38Hello, dragons.
01:39My name's Laura, and I'm the founder of Oatco Superfuel.
01:44Today, I'm here to seek an investment of £50,000 in return for a 5% share of my business.
01:51Leading an active lifestyle and being a busy mum, I found myself seeking nutritious, convenient solutions, and I was disappointed
01:58as to what was available on shelves.
02:00This sparked the passion of me to create Oatco Superfuel.
02:05Currently in our range, we have our Just Add Milk overnight oat pouches, our ready-to-eat overnight oats, and
02:12our small bites with big energy, Superbites.
02:15And at Oatco, we aim to fuel the everyday, whether it's a school run, a busy day in the office,
02:21or a gym workout.
02:22We are currently delivering to a strong community of customers through our Shopify website nationwide, as well as being stocked
02:29in over 150 retail stores.
02:31And in the past seven months, we've did 200k in sales, with a 60% gross margin and 28,000
02:38in net profit.
02:40Currently, the market is more protein-focused, but we aim to disrupt the food-to-go market with natural energy
02:47that Oatco can provide.
02:49And we've got balls. Excuse the pun.
02:53Now, I've got some samples of our Just Add Milk pouches for you to try, and I'd love for you
02:57to try them.
02:59I'm excited.
03:01A range of oat-based food products is the offering from Laura Murphy.
03:07That's, what's that one? Vanilla?
03:08That's a vanilla chocolate chip, yeah.
03:11She's asking for £50,000 in exchange for a 5% stake in her business.
03:17How much protein is in your original?
03:19So we're around 6 grams, so it's just a natural energy.
03:23However, the other three, we've added oat-based protein.
03:27Laura claims her oats stand out from the crowd.
03:30You will notice under your chairs as well, there's also some other products.
03:34But in a sector packed with healthy promises, Peter Jones is keen to know what makes this offering more than
03:42just a mouthful of marketing.
03:47Laura, hi.
03:49Hello.
03:51So it's basically oats with bits in it to give you a super fuel, is it?
03:57So is it, was it just protein or?
04:00No.
04:01So give me the contents.
04:03So we aim to be different.
04:06So how we feel at the moment is everything is protein-led.
04:09However, we want to focus on the natural energy from the oats.
04:13Okay.
04:15And in what way is this different?
04:17Is anybody else doing this?
04:18So I suppose it's difficult to say because we have three different products.
04:22So there is three different competitors, depending on which one we look at in particular.
04:28In terms of the pouch product, our point of difference is you actually prepare that in the pouch.
04:34You can reseal, take it with you.
04:36And so that is the USP of the pouch product alone.
04:40Okay.
04:42Laura.
04:43Yeah.
04:44Your balls are absolutely banging.
04:48When something tastes that good, I worry that it's not good for my health.
04:53Yeah.
04:54And I was looking at the nutritional information on this packet, but also on the balls as well.
04:59Are those the best balls you've ever had?
05:01That is so good.
05:04It's really good.
05:05Thank you so much.
05:06That's got to be like you say.
05:07That's such a good point.
05:07It's got to be bad for you.
05:09Yeah.
05:09Well, some of the flavors are slightly more on the indulgent side, but we're mindful of that.
05:15And we're trying to appeal to that target consumer that still wants us to taste good, but is mindful of
05:20their health.
05:22On the balls, it says there's 20 grams of sugar per 100 grams.
05:26Yeah.
05:27It is something we're definitely mindful about.
05:29And we've had conversations recently on how we can improve.
05:32And in our new product development, we are taking that on board and 100% trying to make them as
05:38well-rounded as possible.
05:40Okay.
05:41Laura, hi.
05:43Got to tell you, yes, they're high sugar, but they're delicious.
05:47Thank you so much.
05:50So, how much are they selling for?
05:52The Potter Holden retails for £3.79.
05:56Okay.
05:57And I've seen the overnight oats in tubs, but I don't think I've seen this on top.
06:01Is that yours?
06:03That's our USP.
06:04Yeah.
06:04Okay.
06:04So, that makes it quite unique.
06:06Yeah.
06:06But if I was buying a sort of standard overnight oat, what would that cost me?
06:13They would retail probably around the £2.99, £3 mark.
06:16Okay.
06:17And what about your retailers?
06:18You've got 150 stores.
06:20Who are they?
06:20So, we're mainly direct-to-store, and it's a mix of Spar, Sentra's, Apple Greens is a big customer to
06:27us, all based in Northern Ireland.
06:28And this week, we're actually launching into Tesco as well.
06:33Tesco Northern Ireland?
06:34Yeah, Tesco Northern Ireland.
06:35Okay.
06:36And do you have any stores in the rest of the UK?
06:40Not as of yet.
06:41Okay.
06:44Laura, hi.
06:46Hello.
06:47I'm probably your customer here, and I think that's what makes me quite different to the rest of the Dragons,
06:51because I'm not super educated around kind of what I need to put into my body.
06:56Like, I look at these packaging, and the first thing I look at is calories, because that's the world I've
07:00been brought up in.
07:00I don't understand the rest.
07:02So, as a customer, explain to me why I need your product.
07:06So, it's something substantial that you can eat, and I eat it every morning.
07:11And being a busy mum as well, like, it keeps me going throughout the day.
07:16Okay.
07:16And then, what is it you're looking for in a Dragon to help with this business?
07:21Yeah, so, like, I want Oko to be a household name in many regions, particularly in the UK and Ireland.
07:27And I think with the Dragon on board, it gives me that platform to help achieve that.
07:33Okay.
07:35I'm going to tell you where I am.
07:37I mean, oats are a superfood.
07:39Yeah.
07:40They're incredibly good for your heart.
07:42Yeah.
07:43You know, control your cholesterol levels.
07:45Yeah.
07:45So, I think the oats story is very, very strong.
07:50And I tell you what, you've done really well.
07:52This is, like, one of the most hotly contested markets.
07:54If you go in anywhere, there are loads of blinking protein balls and energy balls.
07:59So, to actually stand out in that, and that is absolutely delicious.
08:05Too delicious.
08:06Scarily delicious.
08:07Scarily delicious.
08:08Exactly.
08:08In fact, I meant to have just one little nibble.
08:11I've been back in three times.
08:15So, so much to like about this business, but there's a problem, and it's the sugar.
08:25Okay.
08:28I wouldn't eat that because of the high content.
08:32Yeah.
08:32Now, I know I'm purist, but the direction of travel is against sugar.
08:39So, I'm really sorry I won't be investing.
08:41No problem.
08:41Thanks for the words anyway.
08:42And I am really sorry I won't be investing, but I'm out.
08:50Laura, you are fantastic.
08:54But this is just a market that I'm just not happy to invest in at the moment.
08:58I think it's hyper-competitive, and you're going to struggle with this at the moment.
09:03So, I'm going to say that I'm out.
09:09Laura, I'll tell you where I'm at.
09:11I think you're amazing.
09:12You're so investable.
09:14There's a lot of work to do with actually defining the purpose and that kind of vision.
09:19Like, I know you want to own the natural energy market, but that's not a brand purpose.
09:23That's what just, that's, I'm like, why, why?
09:25Like, I still need to understand why.
09:27What is natural energy?
09:28Why do I need it?
09:29And I think that needs to be laser-focused.
09:31And I feel like I could offer so much help in terms of that, in terms of the branding, in
09:36terms of the lifestyle, in terms of the persona.
09:39I don't know the food market, and that's just me being completely transparent at all.
09:48So, I am going to make you an offer, but it's a bit of a wild card because there isn't
09:54any other offers yet.
09:56You asked for £50,000 for 5%.
10:00I'll offer you half of the money for 7.5%.
10:04And I'd want to share with someone else that actually understands the food market, because I know what I can
10:09bring.
10:09It's fantastic.
10:10Yeah.
10:11And you're a fantastic entrepreneur.
10:12Once you get the branding spot on, we can make it a cool on-trend product.
10:16We can get the persona perfect.
10:18But I want that help of the other side, of the retail side as well.
10:21Perfect.
10:22Thank you very much.
10:27Laura.
10:30I know retail.
10:32Mm-hmm.
10:32Yep.
10:33Yep.
10:36And I do like what you presented today.
10:42So, I will also offer you half the money.
10:45That's £25,000 for 7.5% if Jenna wants to share.
10:50Thank you very much.
10:55Um, Laura, I am, I am such a big fan of you.
11:02Um, I have quite a lot of experience now in this industry.
11:07Um, have a brand that came into the den that's making tens of millions now in just a couple of
11:11years from retail.
11:12And actually, one of the most useful things I could do is to sit you in a room with one
11:17of the investments I've made, who exploded in the UK market, and really understand how they did that.
11:26Yes.
11:28Um, so I'm going to make you an offer because I think you're fantastic.
11:33I'll offer you all of the money for, um, 17.5% of the business.
11:48Thank you very much.
11:53So, thank you so much, firstly, for all of the offers.
11:56It means a lot, um, so I suppose just, Stephen, I did have a cap of 15% in my
12:03head.
12:03Um, so I suppose if you had the money paid back within sort of a two-year period, would you
12:12drop to 10%?
12:15To 10%?
12:21Considering I came in for 5%.
12:26Um, I, I, um, I'm not the biggest fan in the world of the deals that, that drop because it's
12:31almost like punishment for success in a weird way.
12:34I suppose 15% is what I said was, was my cap and that's what I'm struggling with.
12:39Okay.
12:44I'll do 15%.
12:46You do 15%?
12:47I'll do 15%.
12:49Well, I'd love to accept your offer.
12:50Let's do it.
12:51Thank you so much.
12:53Thank you so much.
12:54Well done.
12:54And we're dressed the same as well.
12:56I know.
12:56Thank you so much.
12:59I can't wait to work with you.
13:01See you soon, bye.
13:02Victory for Laura.
13:03After tough negotiations, she secures Stephen Bartlett's backing.
13:10Her haute empire is officially expanding.
13:16Breathe.
13:17I'm still catching my breath.
13:21Amazing.
13:22I couldn't have asked for it to go better, really.
13:24I'm delighted.
13:26That's a great entrepreneur to invest in.
13:28Yeah.
13:28She was so good.
13:29So good.
13:30So, so good.
13:31Excellent.
13:31And it is serendipitous.
13:32You did, you did look the same.
13:34Yeah.
13:50Intimidating photographs.
13:53I think I kissed my head, huh?
13:55My name's John O'Donnell, and I'm joined today with my son, Jamie.
13:59And we've created Screwcaddy.
14:03DIY.
14:05Okay.
14:05Definitely DIY.
14:06Definitely DIY.
14:08I could do with a few more DIY things.
14:10What have you got, Peter?
14:12I've got a toolkit.
14:14You've got a toolkit?
14:15Yeah.
14:15What's the last DIY you did, Peter?
14:18I think I've hung her picture up.
14:23I believe Debra would show the most interest in her product.
14:26Just in the sector that it's in, I feel like it would perk her interest the most.
14:30So I'm definitely confident and ready to go.
14:41Hi, Dragons.
14:43My name's John O'Donnell, and I'm joined today with my son, Jamie.
14:46And we form part of the family team who created Screwcaddy.
14:52Today, we are looking for a £50,000 investment for a 40% stake in our business.
14:59In 2020, during lockdown, me and my mum were doing various DIY projects in and around our home.
15:05One of these projects in particular involved screwing a bracket to a fence for a hanging
15:10flower basket.
15:11Through this, we had many deflected screws, and it caused several near-miss injuries.
15:16So we went out to see if there was a product on the market that could solve our issue.
15:21But we struggled to find anything to solve our solution.
15:24So as a family, we had a go at trying to create up a product of our own.
15:29So, Dragons, the traditional method for uncertain screws is you secure the screw with your fingers
15:35while also trying to handle a power tool, which is particularly difficult and can cause
15:40possible injuries.
15:43However, if you look at our product, you can see that my fingers are away from the screw,
15:48and it allows the DIYer to focus purely on the power drill.
15:55As the screw head comes down, it makes contact with the angled top side of the screw caddy.
16:01The screw caddy pops off, and the job's complete.
16:08We were introduced to a third party who helped us a lot during the development stages of the product,
16:14and we now have a manufacturing site here in the UK.
16:17Screw caddy is patent pending, and we're looking for that dragon or dragons who can ultimately
16:24put a screw caddy in every DIYer's toolbox.
16:28If you would like to come up, the wood we have actually brought in is very, very hard.
16:33So just to make you aware, you need to give it some welly to get in.
16:40A lockdown invention that takes the pain out of drilling is the offering from John and Jamie O'Donnell.
16:48So your fingers go to the side.
16:50Yeah, no, I've got that. I'm just doing that while I...
16:52OK.
16:52All the way down.
16:55The inventive father and son duo are seeking an investment of £50,000
17:01in return for a 40% share in their business.
17:06Yeah, and then pull it off.
17:08Oh, OK.
17:09That's good.
17:11The product gets a nod of approval from the DIY doyen of the den, Deborah Meadon.
17:18But it's Tuukka Suleiman who's the first to drill down into the potential of the business.
17:26John and Jamie, just so you know, I've got no investments in DIY.
17:32This could be my first.
17:36So, have you shown this to any major retailers?
17:42Yes.
17:43So, the very first people we contacted was GML.
17:47And they asked for costs and samples for up to £750,000.
17:50We have been to B&Q and they've had samples.
17:55So, we have had a lot of interest, but it's converting the interest to sales.
18:01So...
18:02It's been a blocker.
18:03Have you turned over anything?
18:07£80.
18:0980 pounds?
18:10Yes.
18:10All right.
18:12So, £80 turnover.
18:14But I can see you want to give away 40% of the business.
18:17Yes.
18:19So, you really want to entice a dragon.
18:22Yes.
18:24Jamie, John, when I was watching Deborah have a go at it, it still looked quite dangerous to me.
18:33And I think because this screw, when put in the biggest hole here, it's still really about five millimetres away
18:38from your finger still, which means it could still, you know, hit the edge of the plastic and then hit
18:43your finger.
18:45So, I just wanted to see if you had a response.
19:13So, I just wanted to see if you had a response on that point.
19:13So, the danger is the wobble.
19:15Mm-hmm.
19:16This stops the wobble.
19:18This stops the wobble.
19:19OK.
19:19So, it's not the proximity to your thumb, it's the fact that if the screw head wobbles to one side,
19:26then you're in danger.
19:27That's holding it solid.
19:30Is that what you meant to say?
19:32Yes.
19:32Sorry.
19:32That's what he meant to say.
19:35My other point was around the combination of metal and plastic.
19:40So, what I did is I took the screw in and out over and over again.
19:44Yeah.
19:44Repeatedly like this.
19:45Yeah.
19:46And the plastic has worn off, so now it basically doesn't fit anymore.
19:50So, what we've, what the third party who done the development work with us, they tried to destroy it with
19:57the roughest screws they could find.
19:59They worked out.
20:00If you were using it, the same aperture, the same size, you'd be talking and you'd get about 35 screws.
20:07So, one is...
20:0735 screws?
20:08Yeah.
20:10And how much does this cost?
20:12$499.
20:13OK.
20:14The equation is not great there, being able to do 30 screws before it breaks in.
20:18Actually, I think the consumer will have a bigger expectation of longevity from the product.
20:25Why the question was about the percentage.
20:27What's the current shareholding between you guys?
20:31There's three shareholders.
20:32It's me, my wife and Jamie.
20:34And it's just a third share each.
20:36OK.
20:37Which means that the Dragon would be the major shareholder.
20:39Yeah, we would change our structure, obviously, to make it a 60-40 spot.
20:45Just keep it simple.
20:49Guys, can I ask you, what's your patentable step?
20:52What's your claim?
20:55It's the way it holds the screw and it's the way it releases the screw.
20:58It's the angled edge and it's the transfer of that vertical force, the horizontal force that forces the screw caddy
21:04off.
21:05OK.
21:05So it is quite specific as to why this works and what you're telling me is it wouldn't work if
21:11you didn't have those angles right.
21:13Yes.
21:14You've obviously been through lots of iterations.
21:16Yeah.
21:16OK.
21:20John, Jamie.
21:22Hi.
21:22Hi.
21:24I think it looks really good.
21:26I think it does what you said it was supposed to do on the tin.
21:31But I think it's really expensive at five pounds.
21:34You know, you can get a pack of screws for five quid and you're selling your product that holds the
21:39screws for the same price.
21:41So I just wonder whether this becomes like a really considered purchase, so I don't really want to buy and
21:46spend five quid on it.
21:48Or is this something that, frankly, what you should really do is perhaps license this to the people that put
21:55these screw packs together.
21:57And this could be a product that you see in the pack as a giveaway.
22:01Yeah, adding it on to buying a bag of screws was something that we considered right at the very start.
22:08It's interesting, though, because I don't think it's attached to the screw.
22:10I think it's attached to the drill.
22:12The dangerous bit in this whole process is the drill.
22:15Yeah.
22:15And the trouble is this product feels very expensive against a pack of screws.
22:20Yeah.
22:20It doesn't feel at all expensive against a drill.
22:26John, Jamie, I do think the price is probably an issue.
22:33And to me, it feels like you would like a dragon to come in and run the business for you.
22:41And I say that because you've not had any luck yet with sales and you're willing to offer the dragon
22:45the opportunity to be the single biggest shareholder in the business effectively.
22:49And that comes with an obligation that I don't feel comfortable meeting.
22:55So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
22:58Thanks.
23:01John and Jamie, hi.
23:02Hi.
23:02And I'll just tell you where I am because I think where I'm stuck with this is given the 40
23:08% away, it's no one is going to drive this business more than you two standing there.
23:14And like, I got 50 no's from a retailer.
23:17And I think they even blocked my email address at one point because they were like, this girl is so
23:21annoying.
23:22But I was delusional.
23:24And you have to be so delusional in your product that like, I know it's like a, I'll try another
23:32way.
23:32I'll try another way.
23:33And I'm just not feeling that.
23:35So that's kind of where I'm at.
23:37And I can only get behind something that you need to be more delusional than me on this.
23:41And right now, there's no delusional here.
23:44So, well done.
23:45But I am out.
23:52Guys, to try and sell this product on its own will cost you a lot of money.
23:58Yeah.
23:59You could make it to a set.
24:02Somebody comes in, they want to buy that screw, it's already in the packet.
24:06And that's Peter's idea, I won't take it away from him.
24:09But I would say this, I'm not your right dragon for this.
24:14So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you all the best.
24:16Thanks, Peter.
24:21John, Jamie.
24:22I really think it's genius that you came in and offered 40%.
24:28Because you want to make it attractive for a dragon.
24:31Yeah.
24:32So as a dragon that really likes opportunity and never likes to miss out.
24:37And bear in mind, there is one dragon here that's had quite a good little bit of success with DIY.
24:43I'm just going to pause for a moment and reflect.
24:57So somebody stood in here about 10 years ago.
25:02A couple stood in here, Jenny and Martin.
25:04And they had a genius DIY product.
25:08And Martin said, I'm an inventor.
25:10I haven't got a clue about business.
25:12But I'm an inventor and I know it works and it's brilliant.
25:15That was Marksman Pens.
25:18They didn't know the numbers.
25:20They haven't talked to the right people.
25:23But there was something about them and there was something about their product.
25:26And apart from anything else, I wanted to find out whether or not they really had something.
25:33And that product now we sell millions of.
25:43So I'm going to make you an offer.
25:47Thank you very much.
25:51I haven't heard it yet.
25:55So you asked for 50,000 pounds for 40% of the business.
26:00I'm going to offer you all of the money.
26:06And I want 30% of the business.
26:08Whoa.
26:12Wow.
26:13Because it's your business.
26:15And I don't want to be the majority shareholder.
26:22So.
26:26I think you guys are really great.
26:29I think you've got a really good idea.
26:31It's really neat.
26:34And I think that you've got the perfect dragon for this.
26:39So.
26:39I'm not going to make you an offer and say that I'm out.
26:42But it'll be interesting when you reflect over there.
26:46What your decision is.
26:49Do we need to reflect?
26:51Don't think so.
26:54We would love to accept your offer.
26:56Well done.
26:57Excellent.
26:58Well done guys.
26:59Well done you guys.
27:00Great.
27:01Success for the father and son team.
27:04Thank you very much.
27:05John, Jamie.
27:05Thank you very much.
27:06Well done.
27:06Well done.
27:07Can you be a little bit more excited?
27:09Yeah.
27:09Seriously.
27:10I'm more excited than you at the moment.
27:12We'll be jumping.
27:12Come on.
27:12A little bit of a.
27:14Yeah.
27:15Thank you very much.
27:17The DIY duo have secured their dream dragon and managed to achieve that rare feat of leaving
27:24the den having given away less equity than they offered.
27:31I'm all over the moon that I've got Debra in the team.
27:34I can't believe it.
27:35It's absolutely amazing.
27:37They seemed in shock.
27:40That was like, yeah, thanks.
27:45I can't wait to film him.
27:46I'm so proud of my dad because to see the whole journey come together like this is just unbelievable.
27:52Unbelievable.
28:04Well, here we are.
28:05Right then.
28:06The den.
28:07My name is Fred Parry and I'm from London.
28:10Look at this thing.
28:12I can't imagine many people who have been dressed as a chicken in the den.
28:16I am wearing a chicken costume because I built a game where someone hides in a chicken costume and I
28:22thought it was only right to put me in it today.
28:26The dragons are probably going to guess we're a birthday party, fancy dress thing.
28:33They're going to think someone's obsessed with chickens probably.
28:37Children's entertainer.
28:38Ah.
28:43Honestly is a really good chicken.
28:45Do you know what?
28:45It's good to know you have a plan B sometimes in life.
28:47In life, you should always have a plan B.
28:52I'm nervous.
28:54This chicken costume seals in all the heat.
28:57I'm going to be roasted in that den.
29:00Roasted chicken.
29:06One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
29:38I don't know what to do now.
29:40I was back to abroad and then I thought maybe not.
29:43Oh, please.
29:45Please.
29:46Wow.
29:47It's scary.
29:49Please.
29:54Hello dragons.
29:55My name is Fred and I'm asking for £50,000 in exchange for 10% of my business, Chicken Rush.
30:01We are a real world GPS powered game of hide and seek.
30:05Teams race to find someone hiding in a pub or bar dressed as a chicken and use our app as
30:11a live radar.
30:12Along the way, they complete silly challenges, compete for points and submit photos and videos as proof.
30:19It's team based, tech driven and utterly ridiculous.
30:22In year one, we turned over £55,000.
30:26In year two, we forecast £164,000.
30:29We've had over 7,000 players across 50 countries with no full time staff.
30:34We've had over 5 million views on social media with barely any marketing spend.
30:39I built the platform myself, the tracking, the booking system, the scoring, the lot.
30:45It's scalable tech that can pop up in any city tomorrow.
30:49I've proven it works.
30:50Now I want it to grow.
30:52With your help, we can achieve global chicken domination.
30:57A real world game of hide and seek with a tech twist.
31:01Using GPS and a custom built app, Fred Parry is reinventing outdoor play for the digital age.
31:10See you.
31:12The entrepreneur is seeking an investment of £50,000.
31:18Terrifying.
31:19In exchange for a 10% share in his feathered venture.
31:23But will the dragons flock to the opportunity or cross the road to avoid it?
31:33Fred, I can't work out whether you're looking for an investment or you're looking for a dragon to dress up
31:39as a chicken.
31:41I'm very much looking for investment to grow the game.
31:44Most of our games at the moment are team building games.
31:47So someone dresses up as a chicken, often the boss of a company, perhaps, and hides.
31:53Okay.
31:54So I'm trying to work out what this business is.
31:59It's hide and seek for adults.
32:02So one person hides, a circle appears on a map that gradually shrinks around their location.
32:07And then there's also challenges teams do while they're playing the game.
32:11So it's not just about finding the chicken, but you get 100 points for finding the chicken first.
32:16Okay.
32:17So I want to know about you.
32:20What's your background?
32:21Yeah.
32:22You build this yourself.
32:24I just want to know, who am I invested in?
32:26Which chicken am I going to invest in?
32:28Yeah, from the beginning, I was building online learning games for kids.
32:32But over time, and I think a lot of people now who are software developers find this,
32:37they're not meeting people on the other side.
32:39They're not seeing how their tech is used.
32:42So I had a bit of a disillusionment with that.
32:45So I wanted to prove that I can build one bit of tech where I know that people were enjoying
32:50using it.
32:51Meeting the people, playing the game, this was like the perfect example and perfect case study for me being able
32:56to do it.
32:57And then we hosted a public dating event for 40 singles to get it off the ground, which is a
33:02bit strange.
33:03Like there's one thing, a chicken chasing game, and then there's also a date involved with it.
33:07Like, well, people want to be distracted by the fact that they're on a first date.
33:11So it turns out our dating events became really popular.
33:13And we had a waitlist of over 2,000 singles in London.
33:17Single people wanted to come and play this game to meet somebody else.
33:23People have found love while hunting chickens, yeah.
33:27Right, so let's look at the serious part of this situation, the business part.
33:33So how do you monetize this? How do you organize it?
33:38Yeah. Just want to know.
33:39Yeah. So there's two types.
33:43You get the tech and you play with your friends for £15 per person in a team building setting or
33:49just for fun.
33:50Or sometimes with large companies, they've got a big budget, they just want to hassle-free someone to come here,
33:56hand over a chicken costume, explain the rules, and then you play the same game.
34:02Fred, how does this get big? What does big mean to you?
34:12Big is getting into definitely at least every city in the UK as well as any city which has enough
34:19hiding spots in them.
34:21And in terms of quantifying big, what does that look like?
34:25The number I've had in my head is 100 games a day.
34:28And if you did 100 a day, what does that look like in terms of revenue?
34:32Um, it's 30 grand revenue.
34:36A day? Yeah.
34:37OK.
34:40Fred, hi. Hello, Deborah.
34:42Have you forgotten by now that you're dressed as a chicken?
34:45Uh, you do start to, if you wear it enough times.
34:50OK, so, so what next?
34:53I mean, I, you know, it's, it's a cool, funny, eye-catching idea.
35:00Yeah.
35:00Um, and I can imagine my corporates would, who were desperate to find the next thing and not do the
35:06old paintballing thing for corporate events.
35:09So I can imagine them thinking, oh, that looks new and different.
35:12Um, but if you're really going to leverage this business, you need to become the place to look to the
35:18innovative ways of building teams, don't you?
35:21Yeah.
35:21You know, um, so what, what next? What's your plans?
35:24Um, at the moment my core focus is just to grow outside of London.
35:28With your investment though, it's about scaling the casual games.
35:32So birthdays, stags and hen do's.
35:34Easter.
35:35Easter, turkey hunt for Christmas.
35:37Yeah, yeah.
35:37All of these things.
35:39But at the moment, it's just been me working on this.
35:41So I just had to focus on one small thing at a time.
35:45OK, so you're on your own at the moment.
35:47Yeah.
35:48Are you just going to keep moving yourself around the country?
35:50For the next year, that would be our main focus.
35:53It's you.
35:54Uh, yeah.
35:55But we'd have part-time help, um, brought in for each event.
36:00Fred, hi.
36:01Hi.
36:02I love adding the crazy into business.
36:04But then on the flip side, I hate organized fun.
36:08Yeah.
36:08Um, I love the dating idea.
36:11I think that's genius.
36:13But I think where you're almost missing that trick is actually making this a thing before you pigeonhole it into
36:19the corporate world, into the dating world.
36:21And it's like, if that wasn't on Invent Bright in London, and you've got everyone in London like, hey, do
36:27you want to go to Pilates today?
36:29Do you want to go and get coffee?
36:30Or do you want to go and do this crazy thing I just saw called Chicken Rush?
36:32Yeah.
36:33Like, you get everyone doing it.
36:35Yeah.
36:35And then you pigeonhole it into corporate, dating, whatever you want.
36:40And it's like, yeah, how do we make this bigger?
36:43And how many people come back?
36:45So once they've done Chicken Rush, do they then delete the app?
36:48Or do they stay on?
36:49Do they do another one?
36:50Like, what?
36:51Yeah.
36:51So, um, as far as numbers are concerned, 5% in year one of our corporates came back.
36:58And then 10% of the people that came to one of our events came back.
37:02Some have played over five times.
37:16I'm like, I'm really, um, I'm really into businesses that are able to bring people into the real world.
37:22Yeah.
37:22And find ways for them to, to connect.
37:25And especially businesses that are a platform to scale that globally.
37:30So what am I investing in here?
37:31Am I investing in a platform that has scale?
37:34That's, that's really the pitch that I think really would have swung me.
37:38Is something like that.
37:39We have built that events platform in the background.
37:42So a huge part of it is for all our dating events.
37:44The thing you pitched to me today was a chicken game.
37:47Where people hide in pubs.
37:49True.
37:51If it sounded different, if it started with the big picture of the macro, loneliness epidemic.
37:56People despairing at dating apps, letting them down.
37:59So we're building the platform for social, competitive, in real life games.
38:04That was my pitch.
38:05I would have been like, ooh, here we go.
38:06I rewrote that on Sunday.
38:07But then I got worried that you wouldn't understand what the game was.
38:10So the whole pitch was, uh, all around us, pubs are closing.
38:15There is a loneliness epidemic.
38:17That was the pitch.
38:18That was the pitch.
38:19The whole thing.
38:19That was the pitch.
38:20The, the key to, the, the key to pitching for me is you start with the why.
38:24Pubs are closed.
38:25Loneliness epidemic.
38:26I would have been nodding like a dog.
38:27Yes, yes, yes.
38:28And then you build it up and say, so, we've made this.
38:31And I go, ooh, interesting.
38:32But what you did is you started with the what.
38:33You started with the chickens hide in pubs.
38:35And I'm like, ugh.
38:36The, my, my original pitch was just that exact story.
38:40It might be the story, but it's not the business either that you have.
38:44That's the difference, is it?
38:46Well, it's not.
38:47This is one.
38:48This is a, this is a chicken game with a GPS tracking device.
38:51Yeah.
38:52We get hundreds of people outside interacting.
38:56Um, the whole aim and ethos of this is just try and get people outside and playing and meeting new
39:02people.
39:03That's why I set it up anyway.
39:05Yeah.
39:06Fred, look, I think you've, it's great.
39:07I think that it, it's a tough one to invest in.
39:13It really is.
39:14Um, and sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out, but, but good luck to you.
39:20Thank you, Peter.
39:25Um, I, I do think you need an investor, but I think, um, I think it's going to be tough
39:29for you to get an investor based on what your pitch was today.
39:32Okay.
39:32The chicken thing, because it is, it's really, really fun.
39:35And, but it was also quite distracting, uh, in a way where an investor is trying to understand the potential
39:41and the scale of this business.
39:42It, the, the coming in, the way that you came in with the chickens and that Deborah Meaden and, uh,
39:47Peter Jones's face.
39:48I mean, that was distracting, but the whole thing kind of diverted me from the, the real problem you're trying
39:53to solve here, which I've managed to tease out of you, which is loneliness, connection, bringing people together in real
39:58life in an increasingly digital world.
40:00That is it.
40:01Um, that's a, that's an inspiring proposition, but the proposition I saw today wasn't, wasn't, wasn't that.
40:11So, um, I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
40:17Fred, um, I think you need investment because you need people around you.
40:24My issue is that I can't personally see how I can spend the time that you need in this business.
40:34So I won't be investing on that.
40:37Thank you, Deborah.
40:41Fred, I'm going to say where I am.
40:44Hi.
40:44I'm not interested in chicken, chicken games at my age.
40:48Okay.
40:48Um, I'm going to say, I'm going to go back to my little cage.
40:53Yeah.
40:53And not invest and I'm out.
40:55Thank you, Dave.
41:00Hi, Fred. Hello.
41:02Um, sorry, I just panicked there. I got your name wrong.
41:05I was like, I did it.
41:06Um, no, I, I just think you're great.
41:09I think you're great.
41:10And I think you're amazing.
41:11And for me, I feel like there is something in this chicken play.
41:16But I think this needs to be blown up stronger.
41:20Make it massive.
41:21And then you cash in with corporates, with dating.
41:25Once you've made this chicken game a bigger thing.
41:29I do generally feel that if I came on board, I would just be giving you the same advice that
41:33I've kind of given.
41:34But I would love to help you in however I can.
41:36So I'm not going to be your business partner, but I can be that person to call.
41:40And this is going to be huge.
41:41And you're going to be huge.
41:42I think you need to keep going.
41:43Um, but I am out.
41:44But I wish you all the best.
41:45But I will definitely help you.
41:47Good luck, Fred.
41:48Cheers.
41:49Thank you very much.
41:50Cheers.
41:52Sadly for Fred, he's failed to land any of the dragons.
41:57Though he has managed to secure a wingwoman in Jenna Meek.
42:02I love the idea of getting everyone out together and creating something.
42:08It just wasn't something enough.
42:11Jenna was really helpful.
42:12She gave me some advice about how to have mainstream appeal.
42:16So I expect to see more chickens popping up in other cities tonight.
42:20Maybe.
42:33I'm Rachel Williams.
42:34I'm from a small town in Lancashire in the north of England.
42:38And my business was born on the top of a mountain in the French Alps.
42:45Nice, bright packaging.
42:47Lip creams.
42:47It's a lip brand.
42:49Definitely a lip brand.
42:51It's been a long journey.
42:53And many, many people said you'll never make it in this industry.
42:58And being a Northern girl, I kind of thought, well, I will.
43:02I'll show them.
43:02So I did.
43:04So, yeah, I feel quite proud that I got here.
43:17Hello, dragons.
43:18I'm Rachel.
43:20I'm a physiologist and I'm the founder of Albus & Flora,
43:24a specialist award-winning skincare brand
43:27that provides targeted support for the lips and skin around the mouth.
43:32I'm here today to ask for £50,000 in return for 15% equity in my business.
43:41Lines and wrinkles around the mouth, thinning lips, chronic dryness, cold sores, sunburn and lip cancer
43:51affect the confidence and comfort of millions of men and women every day.
43:55UV exposure and sun damage are known to impact on these concerns.
44:02However, UV lip protection is not always used on a daily basis in people's skincare routines.
44:09We've launched two products so far, lip shield, which is an SPF lip balm and lip facial, which is an
44:16exfoliating and plumping treatment mask.
44:19We currently provide products to 370 aesthetic clinics, spas and beauty salons.
44:27We also supply direct to our customers via our website.
44:31Today, we have delivered £695,000 worth of accumulated turnover and we want to develop a clinic and consumer brand
44:41that can be accessed globally.
44:46I can breathe now.
44:48Breathe.
44:49I can breathe.
44:52I can breathe.
45:01The local skin care box, you've got a part of the lip facial.
45:04And then in the smaller boxes, you've got the SPF lip shield.
45:09She's looking for a £50,000 investment in return for a 15% share in her business.
45:16Can I just tell you?
45:17When you do your lipstick, you only have to put it out about that much, Steve, is not even
45:21that much.
45:22Just fill the and that's it.
45:25Rachel believes her targeted approach fills a gap in the ever-growing skin care market.
45:31How does it look?
45:32That's good.
45:34But will the dragons be convinced by her pouch-focused pitch?
45:43So have I got this straight, that this is essentially the unique selling point of this business,
45:47is that it protects my lips from sun damage?
45:51Yes, and people don't realise how much damage you can get from daily UV.
45:57And the lip is so thin and delicate, and that means it dehydrates quite quickly.
46:02So is this the health product versus a beauty product per se?
46:07The SPF is a lifestyle product.
46:10You know, everybody's got a pair of lips, and we need to look after them.
46:13And how is this different from a lip balm?
46:16Because it's a broad-spectrum UVA, UVB protector, so it is...
46:20What does that mean for a muggle like me, that there's nothing about UV anything?
46:23So it's going to protect you against the damage that UV rays can do.
46:27Because UV would come into the skin, and it can impact on the cells' physiology and function.
46:33And sometimes that UV damage is accumulated through your lifetime.
46:38So it is like a lip sun cream, then?
46:41Yes, the lip balm is, yes.
46:43Because I put some of this lip balm on.
46:45But what's weird, this lip balm, I've got a bit tingly, and it feels like my bottom lip's going thicker.
46:51So that isn't a lip balm, so that's the advanced treatment mask.
46:55It's not a lip balm?
46:56No, so the lip balms are in the sticks.
46:58So what's that supposed to do?
47:00So the lip facial is an exfoliating and plumping treatment mask.
47:05It's plumping.
47:07So that is a product that we use.
47:09So that's why that feels it's getting thicker.
47:12It's swollen up.
47:14Could I ask you a question?
47:15Yeah.
47:15While at least you're playing with each other?
47:17No, we're not playing, I'm just asking some very important questions.
47:19Just tell us about your qualifications in this sector.
47:23Qualifications?
47:24I've been a physiologist for many years and supported British teams in three Olympic cycles.
47:31Really looking at the impact of environment on health and, you know, physiology.
47:37To my interest, just so you know, I own the trademark lipstick.
47:42Okay.
47:43And I'm about to go retail with it later in the year.
47:46Cool.
47:47So this is of interest.
47:48Yes, cool.
47:49I just want to make sure you've done 695,000 turnover in total.
47:54Yes.
47:54So can you break that down so we can get an idea?
47:57So the last three years in 2022, we did 139,000 with a net of 41, which obviously gave us
48:06a 29% net profit.
48:08And then in 2023, we did 143 turnover and 27,000 net.
48:17Mm-hmm.
48:18Mm-hmm.
48:18And then in last year, we did, again, 140.
48:23And a 15,000 net profit.
48:28So profits have been going down?
48:30Yes.
48:30Is that because of marketing?
48:31No, it's a strategic decision by me, because when we had that 29% net profit, I knew that the
48:39decision to become a really specialised, focused brand, you know, really supporting the professional retailers was working.
48:47But I'm, you know, a single entrepreneur with not a huge amount of working capital.
48:54Yep.
48:54And I needed, therefore, to prepare the business to scale.
48:58So I wanted to put in foundations in the last two years to help me do that.
49:02So I've got a new office, a part-time member of staff.
49:06We launched the new product.
49:07We did a rebrand and a refresh, because I wanted to make sure the image was right for both clinic,
49:14market, as well as retail.
49:18Look, you've done quite well.
49:20I mean, the product looks really great.
49:22We do have, it just so happens, an experienced expert in the den today with Jenna.
49:33My question is actually not just to you, because I don't know a lot about this market, but it would
49:37be to Jenna.
49:38Are these sort of types of products widely available?
49:41Is this already out there?
49:43Yes, I guess that was... Hi, Rachel.
49:45Hi.
49:45I think that's what I'm trying to struggle with, is I can probably already find something similar.
49:51Yeah.
49:52Because it's a very crowded market.
49:54I think one of the things that's confusing me a little bit is that kind of vision of where you
49:59see the brand going.
50:00So, like, is this going to be SPF, everything will be focused around SPF, or will it be more focused
50:06around lips?
50:08Like, how does the product range build from here?
50:10So we've got a few collections planned.
50:12So the SPF products are all part of the daily care range.
50:16The lip facial is also in the daily care range.
50:19There's then the targeted care range.
50:21This range will focus on supporting clients who've got inflammation, you know, when they're on acne medication.
50:28Solution-based.
50:29You're going to have it daily for everyone, a solution-based range, and then...
50:33And then third one would be targeting sort of 40 and upwards.
50:37Okay, so if you had a magic wand, what beauty retailers do you see this branding, just so I understand
50:43the vision?
50:44Yeah.
50:44So I think the more premium end, definitely sort of Liberties, Selfridges, Space NK, Sephora.
50:52But I think for, you know, Sephora we would need to increase, you know, our kind of digital footprint first.
51:01Do your customers love the product?
51:03Yes, they do.
51:04Do they tell people about the product?
51:05They do. I'm not very good at sharing.
51:09So they love the product and they tell people about the product.
51:12So why, for the last three years, has the revenue been stagnant?
51:17I've almost never seen numbers like this where it's almost exactly the same for three years at 140k in revenue
51:23three years in a row.
51:24Super consistent.
51:25And the reason being that I've invested in the infrastructure and the operations to get ready.
51:30And I've not been able to do that at the same time as putting money into the sales and marketing.
51:37Okay.
51:38So one of the things investors look for in businesses when they're trying to invest is this thing called the
51:42growth profile.
51:43And the growth profile is essentially the history of the business and how it looks from a revenue or profit
51:49growth perspective.
51:50Yeah.
51:51If it's flat, it kind of suggests that the future could be flat.
51:56And I like businesses that have a good growth profile, which is a challenge a lot of entrepreneurs faces.
52:00When you're a solopreneur on your own, you have decisions you have to make.
52:04It's trade offs.
52:06And the trade off that you made was to focus on infrastructure and those things first versus the growth profile
52:12of the business.
52:13I think it's quite important to make a different decision, which is to focus on that growth profile,
52:17because that will give an investor the confidence that they have enough growth to get a return from the business
52:23in future.
52:24But the growth profile of the business is an amber flag for me.
52:27And I find it hard to see, based on the last three years and the current year, how an investor
52:33would get their 50K out and a multiple on the money.
52:36So for that reason, I'm going to say that I'm out.
52:37But I wish you the very best.
52:39And Rachel, I'm going to be the same.
52:41You've created a great product.
52:44I'm struggling to see the size of the opportunity.
52:49So sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out.
52:53But yeah, congratulations on creating a great product.
52:59Rachel, I think you've hit a market and you really, really know your stuff and you explain it really well.
53:06But the truth of the matter is you are in a highly contested space.
53:10This is readily available for me and I buy it.
53:14So I'm afraid it's not an investment for me.
53:17I'm out.
53:23Rachel, hi.
53:24Hi.
53:25I think, I mean, obviously I know what it's like to develop a beauty product.
53:28So just please, well done.
53:31The packaging is lovely.
53:32The branding is lovely.
53:34It's really, really just stand out.
53:37I think in terms of investment, where I'm at is it's not something I feel like I want to invest
53:44in.
53:44Many because it is probably too close to my current business.
53:47But more because I can't necessarily see the bigger vision in terms of everything you want to do.
53:52Yeah.
53:53But I would like to throw you a lifeline because I do think this is a good product.
53:57I will help you get this product in front of Selfridges, Space and Care, Sephora in the UK, so that
54:03you've got that step to entry.
54:06Because you can tell how passionate you are.
54:09I'm not going to invest.
54:10I am out.
54:10And say, I'm sorry, but yeah, I will help you do that step and you'll be able to take it
54:14from the rest.
54:15Okay.
54:16That's a great offer.
54:17Yeah, it's an amazing offer.
54:19Thank you so much.
54:22Rachel, you are investable, but that's not.
54:25Okay.
54:26And that's where I'm torn.
54:28And I'll tell you why I'm torn.
54:30I am launching a lipstick retail concept later in the year.
54:36Okay.
54:36Um, lip care is definitely a sector that could be included.
54:43Um, what I'm interested in is your knowledge.
54:48And trying to think how I can kill two birds with one stone here.
54:52How you can help me with the knowledge and help you with business.
54:55Yeah?
54:56Yeah, that would be exciting.
54:57So, your offer was 50,000, 15%.
55:02Yes.
55:05I'm willing to give you the 50,000 pounds.
55:11But I would want 35%.
55:16Um, 35 obviously is quite high for me as a brand.
55:21And I know that it's most likely going to be multiple rounds to move forward to take the brand to
55:26where I want it to go.
55:27So, that's quite challenging.
55:30Would you be prepared to reduce that offer if you got your money back?
55:35Well, if I got my money back within 12 to 18 months, down to 25%.
55:42Okay, um, would you be prepared to drop to, um, 20?
55:49No.
55:5425?
55:5730%, I'll go down to 25 when I get my money back.
56:04Okay.
56:06That's a fantastic offer.
56:08Um, I would be happy to work with you, excited to work with you, and definitely happy to accept your
56:13offer.
56:13Great, great, great, great, great, great, great.
56:15We're going to be pleased with this.
56:16Yeah, we can do the, yeah.
56:17I think, I think so.
56:18Okay.
56:19Okay.
56:19It's a win for Rachel.
56:21Thanks for all your time.
56:22Well done.
56:23She walks away with an offer of support from skincare savant Jenna Meek.
56:28But it's Tuka Suleiman who's put his money where his mouth is, securing a stake in the business.
56:36Really excited.
56:40Just fabulous to get investment from Tuka.
56:44And, yeah, also, absolutely lovely, you know, offer from Jenna.
56:48So, I'm super grateful and humbled.
56:53How exciting.
56:55It was her that I really loved.
56:58I'm investing in her as an entrepreneur.
57:02Well, you've got an expert.
57:14Dragon's Den will return later in the year.
57:17Perfect.
57:18I think this is the first time in the den there's been more females than men.
57:23I think this is what I've been looking for for a long time.
57:26I just came out of being your worst nightmare.
57:28I'm about to go back in again.
57:29You're sassy.
57:30I'm like, ooh.
57:31Go on, go sell more.
57:32Is that the way you work?
57:33Is that what you guys do as investors?
57:35I think this is a wonderful opportunity.
57:37And that's why I'd like to talk to Tiny.
57:39Hello, Peter.
57:40I was hoping you'd say that.
57:42Am I happy to share with Peter?
57:44My business is to tell me I should not invest.
57:47But my heart tells me I should.
57:50You're setting us all off.
57:52Come here, mates.
57:53I'm so proud of you.
57:54Wow, Gary, you teed that up as if we were teammates.
57:57And then...
57:58That's the most guilty I've ever felt in my life.
58:00Yeah, no, it's great to have you back, Gary.
58:06Noses from Amazon.
58:08T-shirts and homeware from TK Maxx and Homesense.
58:10Visit bbc.co.uk forward slash rednoseday for more.
58:14Pretty good at this.
58:15Let's find our way.
58:26We're ready for the extra time of January.
58:28See you next time now.
58:28We're at Fibonacci.
58:29We're at the stop for Joel Bowman님이.
58:30On the basis of January bust.
58:31In 19 series...
58:31Please join me next time to read this episode.
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