- 2 days ago
Writer Steven Knight and Director Tom Harper takes us inside the making of Netflix's 'Peaky Blinders: The Immortal Man,' along with a roundtable of hosts from Audacy.
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00:02Johnny Minjohn here for 102.7, celebrating a beautiful finale of Peaky Blinders.
00:07Gentlemen, congratulations on such a beautiful film.
00:10We were all there last night.
00:12Yeah.
00:12The girl next to me was weeping.
00:15Tissues, snot, the whole thing.
00:17You weren't supposed to tell him that.
00:18That wasn't.
00:19That was supposed to be a scene.
00:22I wanted to start off, Stephen, you told the story that took my breath away last night,
00:27that one of the scenes in this film was inspired by your mother, who was a factory worker and almost.
00:36I don't want to give away your story.
00:37If you could tell that beautiful story.
00:39Yeah, it's always been in the family.
00:41My mom worked in the BSA, which is Birmingham Small Arms, which was a big munitions factory in Birmingham.
00:48And she would be putting explosives into artillery shells.
00:53And obviously, it was a target for the German Air Force.
00:57And one night, there was a direct hit.
00:59But on that night, she wasn't there because my older brother wasn't well.
01:02So she didn't go in.
01:04So that's always been the story.
01:05So I wanted to start it with that.
01:07So is that something, I mean, that when you said that last night, it took my breath away just because
01:11if your brother wasn't sick, she would have been there.
01:14Is that a story that you've been wanting to tell and put on film for your whole life or is
01:19that?
01:19It's a bit like the whole of Peaky because I was told stories from my parents about their lives and
01:26small heat in the 20s.
01:28You know, they were kids when they experienced it and I was a kid when I was told the story.
01:32So it's a sort of double mythology to it.
01:36And I've always wanted, I always thought from, I think the middle 80s is when I first started to want
01:41to tell this story.
01:43And that's sort of part of the whole, the story of the family and their relationship with the city of
01:49Birmingham.
01:50Well, you obviously did it justice and that scene took everybody's breath away in the audience.
01:55So was that before, were you alive then?
01:57When?
01:58When your mum didn't go to the...
02:01No, no, no, no, no, because that was 1940.
02:03So, yeah, so you wouldn't...
02:06So if you'd gone to work that day...
02:07Yeah, exactly.
02:08Oh, yeah, I would...
02:10Oh, my goodness.
02:10We wouldn't have Peaky Blinders.
02:14The important stuff.
02:15Bringing that up to date, how is it when it's in theatres for people in Birmingham in the UK now?
02:21Because you've got this longer run than I've remembered anything being from theatres to going to Netflix,
02:27which is great because more people get to experience it.
02:29But you paid special attention to having it premiere at a theatre in Birmingham for locals to take it in
02:36now.
02:36How was that?
02:37The premiere was in Birmingham and that opening night was quite breathtaking and a lot of emotion.
02:43And it's just great that it's come home.
02:48And we shot the film largely in Birmingham, locations in Birmingham.
02:52And there's a particular cinema that's showing it that they're doing four screenings a day starting at 8am.
02:59Wow.
02:59And every single seat is booked.
03:01Was it important to get that amount of time to have it in theatres?
03:05Because having seen it yesterday on a big screen, it is a different perspective.
03:10But it's not just seeing it on the big screen.
03:13I think it's the camaraderie that people feel because when you think about Peaky Blinders, a lot of it was
03:19built through social media.
03:20It kind of started as a cult thing.
03:22I know from my friends from back in the UK, it was on the BBC.
03:24Some people were talking about it.
03:27Now it's obviously much bigger.
03:29But there is that sense of being with other fans that you get in a theatre that you're not going
03:34to get from the couch.
03:35Which is absolutely one of the main reasons we wanted to do it.
03:40So that our fans have been amazing over the years.
03:43And they made this thing happen.
03:45And we wanted them to be able to experience it together in the same place.
03:49They've always communicated virtually.
03:52Now they can actually do it.
03:53And the attendance at theatres, not just in Birmingham, not just in the UK, has been phenomenal.
04:02And, you know, we know how it's doing and it's incredible.
04:06So people do want to go and be together.
04:08Yeah, this is definitely a movie that you want to see in the theatres because it is so grand and
04:14so epic.
04:15I'm Megan Holiday.
04:16I'm from the world-famous K-Rock in Los Angeles.
04:20So how long has this story for The Immortal Man kind of been swirling around in your head?
04:28And why now? Why is now the time to do this project?
04:33I've, from the very beginning, wanted to end this in the Second World War.
04:36So it's a story that starts at the end of the First World War and ends at the beginning of
04:40the Second World War.
04:42And I always wanted to end it with a movie.
04:44And I was shown something I've forgotten, which is a clip of me saying at the end of the first
04:49series, BBC Two,
04:50not that many people watching saying very confidently, yeah, I'm going to take this to the Second World War and
04:54it's going to be a movie.
04:55And that was a very bold prediction, but here we are.
05:00So the story itself, I didn't have then.
05:03And only when we embarked on the project of doing the movie did I start to do some research into
05:09what an untold story,
05:11which is the currency thing that I wanted to get in.
05:14Yes, I know.
05:15And that is such a cool thing, too, because is it true that Peaky Blinders really started
05:19because your parents had told you stories of these real life, you know, gangs and all that stuff.
05:25So now for you to incorporate, you know, the story with your own mother and then also this currency,
05:31I feel like you're teaching us things about history that we don't know about.
05:36So thank you for that.
05:38Peaky Blinders makes you more intelligent.
05:40It does.
05:41Good for the brain, you know.
05:43And you two working together, how do you feel like, you know, Tom was able to help make your vision
05:50come to life
05:51in the way that you wanted it to?
05:52Well, the truth is that Tom worked on the first series and every series after that,
05:57when we started the process of making it, the first question would be, can we get Tom back?
06:01Yeah.
06:01And every time he was busy, but this time he wasn't.
06:07So that was fantastic.
06:08He was the person that we wanted.
06:10Love it.
06:11Well, it's such an epic movie.
06:14How did you guys feel, like, scale-wise?
06:17What could you do with the movie that you felt you couldn't do with the series?
06:22Get Tom?
06:28I don't know.
06:29It's interesting, isn't it?
06:30The lines between film and television over the past 10 years have really blurred now.
06:36You know, you do get a great scale and production value in plenty of television.
06:41Indeed, in Peaky Blinders, the series itself.
06:43But there is, you know, we did have more time or more money for the movie,
06:48and that enabled us to do some of the things I think that we'd always aspired to
06:51and always wanted to do in the TV series.
06:54To give you a few examples of that, you know, we were able to go to locations throughout the UK
07:00that, you know, now you can create anything in visual effects pretty much,
07:05or you can build anything.
07:06But there's something about locations that affect everything you do.
07:10You infuse the cast and the crew with the feeling of something.
07:14To give you an example, you know, that beginning with Tommy in the house
07:18is a 10th century monastery in the Lake District in the UK, which is a very remote place,
07:24and we wouldn't have been able to have the resources to go there on the TV series.
07:29But we could go there, and we got all that mist was for real,
07:32and all the frost and the moors, and it gives it kind of that isolation and history,
07:38and that's something that I don't think we could have done.
07:40So you can just up the scale, and you can just do all those things that you kind of,
07:44you have to find workarounds.
07:45And sometimes the workarounds are great, and they can give you things as well.
07:49But, like, it's been lovely on this just to do a lot of those things for real.
07:53In terms of the authenticity, when I watched it,
07:55it kind of looks like an old World War movie in terms of the way that it's been shot,
08:00but with a modern spin.
08:02So you've kind of, you've made it authentic in terms of it happened in the era
08:07when it's set around World War II, just in the way that it's filmed.
08:11But also, there is obviously modern technology that you've combined with that as well
08:14for the look and feel of it, I thought.
08:16Yeah, I mean, almost all of it is done for real.
08:20Like, all the explosions are real, all the tunnelling is done for real.
08:26Like, there's just a few wide shots where, you know, obviously,
08:29Birmingham, the Blitz is a hard thing to do for real.
08:31There are a few sort of landscapes or backgrounds that are visual effects.
08:40And then, but really, we did it all for real.
08:42I wanted to ask you about that, because there are so many explosions in this movie.
08:45I was like, were there a lot of injuries on set?
08:47Because the amount of action sequences with explosions,
08:51insane that that was all real.
08:53No, no, no.
08:54The excellent stunt team and special effects team
08:57who just took their time and did it safely and is great.
09:01But also, but to their immense credit,
09:05the actors did a lot of it as well.
09:06You know, there was very limited work with stunt doubles.
09:09Killian, for example, walking in the tunnel
09:13with the bricks collapsing on him, that's him.
09:15That was him.
09:15Fighting in the mud is all the actors.
09:17The mud and the pigs.
09:18Yeah, the pig poop.
09:19I was going to say, the pig poop is all real.
09:20That's what you're telling me.
09:22Genuinely, real pigs and real poop.
09:25And a lot of it at that, yeah.
09:26I wanted to ask you about the pig poops.
09:30Anybody who hasn't seen the film will be thinking,
09:32I know.
09:33But then they're really going to want to watch it.
09:35Insert a quick clip here.
09:37So now, as filmmakers, though, with that sequence,
09:40how many takes is that?
09:42Because if you don't get it in the first take,
09:43they have to go shower, redress, all of that.
09:46How many takes did you have to shoot that?
09:48It was quite a lot of takes.
09:50Oh, yeah?
09:50Yeah.
09:51How many?
09:51We tried to do it chronologically.
09:53I mean, we shot it over two days,
09:54so that's quite a lot of time.
09:57But, you know, we shot it.
09:58We tried it.
09:59Basically, we went chronologically through,
10:01so we do one set up and take it to there,
10:04and then we do the next set up.
10:06So we would always pick up from continuity-wise.
10:09We'd try and do as much before they got completely caked,
10:11and then they would go shower,
10:13and then we'd do it all again.
10:14And do you lie to the actors?
10:15Because you've got A-list talent here who you've got to make the movie.
10:19They're not real pigs.
10:20And you kind of downplay, oh, there's just a little fight,
10:23and there might be some mud,
10:25and you don't kind of tell them exactly what they're going through.
10:26When you can see the pigs doing what they were doing in the mud,
10:29there's no lying.
10:31But this was day one and day two.
10:33Oh, come on.
10:33Okay, right, right, right.
10:35That's a fun day one and day two.
10:37Welcome, everyone.
10:40You say that joking, but there was something about it.
10:43I think people were serious about this movie.
10:45People knew that it was going to take a commitment,
10:47and they really threw themselves into it.
10:49Of course it wasn't pleasant, and it took an endurance,
10:51and it took some real uncomfortable, unpleasant days.
11:01But they knew, we knew that we wanted to do this
11:06and push it as far as we could.
11:08And if that meant getting in the mud
11:09and rolling around in the picture, they were off for it.
11:13You're talking about the first scene that you shot.
11:15Now let's talk about the last scene that Killian shot.
11:18You were talking about this last night.
11:20There was a moment where he broke down
11:22when he was walking through the hall.
11:25I won't give away the spoiler,
11:26but you don't really see him weep too much in the series.
11:29And this was a big moment,
11:31and you said that it was his last scene
11:34shooting Peaky Blinders, correct?
11:36Actually, the one in the hallway wasn't.
11:37There was the one on the moors where he gets out of the car.
11:41Do you feel like the emotion of his last scene
11:44added to the emotion of the character?
11:47I don't know.
11:49I mean, maybe.
11:50But I think that Killian is right.
11:54He's a very interesting actor, of course,
11:58but he was so in the energy of the character.
12:03And I think it's just he knows that character so well
12:05and so much of himself is wrapped up in it.
12:08Of course, it's Tommy Shelby,
12:09but it's Killian's Tommy Shelby.
12:12And I think that it's a very powerful moment.
12:15And yes, I'm going to say yes, actually.
12:17I think so.
12:17But I don't know that how...
12:21Yeah, it's one of my favorite moments in the film.
12:23And I think it's just...
12:24And he's just a well of restraint, you know?
12:27And there's so much going on behind the eyes.
12:29And it means that when you do,
12:31he's so restrained so much.
12:33But he can see the intelligence
12:35and the thinking going on behind it.
12:37But it means that when you do get some emotion like that,
12:41it's very impactful because he's so sparing with it.
12:45What was maybe one of your favorite days of shooting?
12:49I mean, you were working with
12:50some of the greatest talent in the world.
12:52And whether it's something that's in the movie
12:55or something that maybe happened off of the camera,
12:58did you have a favorite moment?
13:01Apart from the pigs in the mud.
13:04Over two days.
13:06I mean, I was there for shooting judiciously.
13:10I wasn't there all the time.
13:11I went specifically for the scene
13:13with Tommy riding the black horse
13:16through the streets of Birmingham,
13:18which I thought was amazing.
13:19So beautiful.
13:19That gave me a chance.
13:20It was symbolic.
13:21Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:21You see the townspeople, everybody's like, oh.
13:25There is also that you spoke previously
13:27about the amount of time it took for him
13:29to get back into the character
13:31that people remember from the TV show
13:33and the point at which he's dressed up.
13:35That was a very pivotal point in the movie, right?
13:38And about the amount of time
13:40you make the audience wait for that,
13:42for the, if you like, the payoff.
13:44Well, it's like pulling back a bow.
13:46And you pull and pull and pull
13:48and then you let go and the arrow flies.
13:50And we did want to, you know,
13:54do justice to him being in exile.
13:58Because you've got an actor like Killian,
13:59then he can do that
14:00and keep people's eyes glued to the screen.
14:03But then my daughter saw the film
14:08and thankfully loved it.
14:10And she's 13.
14:11And said, it's like Batman.
14:13I said, what do you mean?
14:14She said, well, he puts the costume on.
14:16And he's back.
14:17And I thought, yeah, you're right, actually.
14:19And in terms of bringing it back,
14:21I know you had the idea
14:23that you were always going to make a movie.
14:24But the way that the TV show finished,
14:26that was such a poignant moment.
14:29So when you said, okay,
14:30we've now got the go-ahead to do the movie,
14:32did people come to you and go,
14:34are you sure?
14:35Because it finished in such a good way
14:37for the TV show.
14:38Have you definitely got enough to bring it back?
14:42Because that could have been a very good end, right?
14:44The way the TV finished.
14:46I mean, no one said it to me,
14:48but I'm sure people said, are they sure?
14:51Are they sure they want to do this?
14:53But I felt there was unfinished business with him.
14:57You know, it's all very well riding away
15:00on a white horse,
15:01but you've still got to live with yourself.
15:03And what I wanted was for him to have,
15:07basically, as Kahlo says to him,
15:09you're living in a house haunted
15:10by people who died because of you.
15:12Now that originally was,
15:14that was why he was withdrawn,
15:16because of the life he'd lived.
15:18And I was in a car on a motorway
15:21and was feeling that it wasn't enough,
15:25just that he was regretting his life.
15:27And that's when I thought,
15:28well, maybe he did something
15:31that he can't forgive himself for.
15:33So, spoilers, spoilers,
15:35but yeah, he's done something
15:36regarding his family
15:37that he can't forgive himself for.
15:40What do you want people to walk away
15:42from this movie with?
15:46Tears.
15:47Yeah.
15:49I mean, I think that's...
15:50The desire to see it again.
15:52The desire to see it again.
15:53Desire to watch it on Netflix.
15:54Right.
15:55Desire to tell people to go and see it.
15:57No, I mean, you know,
15:58you're putting on a show.
15:59I mean, we're putting on a show.
16:01We want people to feel
16:02and laugh sometimes and cry
16:04and feel the emotion.
16:06That's it, isn't it?
16:06That is really what you want.
16:08It's just like to have the...
16:09To be taken on an emotional journey.
16:12And that's what...
16:13I mean, yeah, exactly.
16:14Watching the cinema
16:15and then go and watch it on Netflix
16:16and then watch the whole series
16:17or whatever again.
16:17Yeah.
16:18Yes, yes.
16:18I wonder how many people
16:19will do that kind of back to front
16:20because you've said
16:21you don't need to have watched
16:23the TV show to enjoy the movie,
16:24which is true.
16:25But do you think people
16:26will go see the movie
16:27and then go,
16:28oh, yeah, Peaky Blinders.
16:29There's all these seasons
16:30I'm going to start, you know?
16:32I think if you loved the film,
16:33it would be difficult
16:34not to do that, actually.
16:35You probably would want to go back
16:36and see it all over again
16:38and see how much younger
16:39they all look when it all...
16:41That's amazing.
16:43I know, but you guys actually
16:44had to make Killian look older
16:46than he actually looks.
16:47Yes.
16:48He still looks amazing.
16:49Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:50And that was Killian's choice,
16:52wasn't it?
16:52He wanted to look.
16:54Yeah, we thought a lot
16:55about how he would have changed
16:57and we considered
16:59whether he would be bearded
17:00and disheveled.
17:03Actually, we thought that
17:05Killian was sure
17:07that he wanted to be grey for it.
17:10But also, it didn't quite make sense.
17:12You know, talking about Batman again,
17:14you think about, like,
17:16I don't know which one is it,
17:16Dark Knight,
17:17where he's off and he's bearded
17:19and then he comes back.
17:20But actually, like,
17:21Tommy Shelby's not quite that character.
17:22He's a control freak.
17:23You know, he's very precise.
17:25He's like,
17:26he's almost OCD more than he is.
17:28So he wouldn't let himself go.
17:29So how did that manage?
17:31So we spent a lot of time
17:32thinking about what that...
17:33Like he's on the brink of war
17:34and he's still finishing his book.
17:35Yeah, exactly.
17:36On the ship over like that.
17:38And the moment,
17:38the little moments of comedy
17:40that you guys stitched in there
17:41was just beautiful.
17:42You hit on all the emotions.
17:43And I mean, Tom,
17:45you directed the finale of season one.
17:48Did you feel like coming,
17:50you finished what you started?
17:51It was very much...
17:53I felt that was
17:54one of the really lovely things.
17:56I mean,
17:57it's lovely to work with
17:58a group of people
17:59who you found really inspiring
18:00and got on with
18:01and had a good time with
18:0213 years after
18:04because that's really...
18:05Not many people
18:06are lucky enough to do that.
18:08But also,
18:08it did feel like...
18:09It did feel like
18:11coming full circle,
18:11you know,
18:12for sure.
18:12You did such a beautiful job.
18:14I don't want to say ending it
18:15because maybe there's another movie,
18:16maybe there's something else afterwards,
18:18maybe Duke has a...
18:20Oh, yeah, yeah.
18:21No, there is, there is, there is.
18:23You could keep moving through time.
18:24Oh.
18:25Yes.
18:25I mean,
18:26World War II was a long time ago.
18:27If you had it between then and 2026.
18:30Well, yeah.
18:30Well, we're doing a series set in...
18:33Oh, yeah.
18:35Is this already announced
18:36or are we breaking this?
18:37I've said it many times.
18:39Have you?
18:40Oh, really?
18:40Oh, okay.
18:41Or say that again.
18:42Oh, my gosh.
18:43That's so exciting.
18:43It began as a prediction
18:44and now I think...
18:45You just say it and make it happen.
18:46Exactly.
18:46That is what happens with Steve.
18:47I'm not joking.
18:48That is actually what happens.
18:48And with Barry?
18:50Oh, can't speak about it.
18:51Oh, okay.
18:52The choice to bring Barry in,
18:54was that really just the text from Killian
18:56and that was it
18:56or was there big discussions to have?
18:59Looking back,
19:00there's only one person
19:01who could have played it
19:02for a start off.
19:04Killian has got an amazing address book.
19:06But the story that I didn't know
19:08that Killian has revealed
19:10is that he texted Barry
19:14to say,
19:15do you want to be in this
19:16on Father's Day
19:17and didn't know it was Father's Day.
19:19He wasn't aware
19:20that it was Father's Day
19:21when he texted him.
19:21Oh, my gosh.
19:22Which is weird.
19:23You know, I'm not weird.
19:24Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:24It's symbolic.
19:25Exactly.
19:26The fact that he would come on
19:27to then play his father.
19:28Yeah, yeah.
19:29It's a beautiful moment.
19:30Yeah, yeah.
19:30And the likeness as well.
19:31I know.
19:32You know,
19:32because you don't think about that
19:33until you see it on the screen
19:34and go,
19:34oh, this does make perfect sense.
19:36Yes, absolutely.
19:38I read a rumor online,
19:41confirm or deny.
19:42Did you have family who was,
19:43I heard that you heard stories
19:45of Peaky Blinders,
19:45but did you have family
19:46who were in Peaky Blinders?
19:48Yeah, yeah.
19:48Well,
19:49they were too young.
19:51My mom was nine years old
19:55and was a bookie's runner.
19:56In other words,
19:58laying bets off track
19:59was illegal.
20:00So they used to use kids
20:01to take the bets.
20:02So my mom,
20:02nine years old,
20:03used to walk down the street
20:04with a basket of washing.
20:05People would walk
20:06in the other direction.
20:07They'd have their code name,
20:09the name of the horse
20:10and the odds
20:11and they'd wrap sixpence
20:13or a shilling
20:14and drop it into the basket
20:15as she walked past.
20:16She'd then get to the bookies,
20:18Tucker Wright his name was,
20:19who had a dog on a chain.
20:21It was just long enough
20:22to let a kid get past
20:24and then she'd deliver
20:25the basket to the bookie
20:27and he'd give her sixpence.
20:30And my dad's uncles were,
20:32they were called the Sheldons,
20:33not the Shelbys.
20:34And they were bookmakers.
20:36I remember that.
20:36It was in the script
20:37in the first season.
20:38The first one,
20:38they were called Sheldon.
20:39BBC said,
20:40no, we better not use that
20:41in case the Sheldons
20:42can sue us.
20:44But yeah,
20:45and my dad,
20:48the story that really
20:49made me want to do it
20:50was my dad was,
20:51his dad gave him a bet
20:53to go and play.
20:54So he ran that
20:55through the streets
20:55barefoot,
20:56knocked on the door,
20:57the door opens,
20:58waft of cigarette smoke
20:59and whiskey.
21:00And he goes,
21:01and the seven men
21:01ran a round table
21:02similar to this.
21:04Immaculately dressed
21:05with the caps
21:06and the razor blades.
21:07The table is covered
21:07in coins
21:08because they've taken
21:09the bets
21:09and they're drinking
21:11whiskey and beer
21:11out of jam jars
21:13because they wouldn't
21:14spend any of that money
21:15on something as mundane
21:17as a glass or a cup.
21:18But the suit was immaculate.
21:22And just that image
21:22made me think,
21:23I've got to do this.
21:24Wow.
21:25So you've had this living
21:25inside of you
21:26your whole life.
21:27Yeah.
21:27So beautiful.
21:28Thank you for sharing that.
21:30Thank you for sharing that.