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00:00I felt like yesterday was the most exciting first day of free agency ever.
00:03It's not even the first day of free agency! We're a week away!
00:07I know, I know, I know, I know.
00:09Yeah, you're right. It was. It was as exciting as the first day of free agency.
00:12And this is, it's interesting, because I felt like when all these trades, all these trades,
00:17when these two trades went down, first Titus Howard traded to the Browns for fifth round pick,
00:22and then David Montgomery, the Texans, trade four.
00:26They give up what was initially reported as a fifth round pick, ends up being a late fourth round pick,
00:31a seventh round pick, and juice Scruggs.
00:33And, gee, they threw a little juiceroo in there, yeah.
00:36Less than a seventh round pick, currently, his current set.
00:41Deflation has hit him hard, all right?
00:42Yes, yeah, yes.
00:44We've actually, I think what happened with the Texans is they finally, last year was the last year
00:49they could write off any depreciation on him.
00:51Yeah.
00:52So they just said goodbye, yeah.
00:53Yeah, so it's all over the place when it comes to how the rest of the country
01:01or the rest of sports media has treated this.
01:05In the Montgomery trade especially, I've seen an A, a B, a C, and a D graded to the Texans
01:12on the Montgomery trade.
01:14It really is.
01:15And I think that in and of itself is fair given that running back is such a dicey position.
01:23As guys get older, from year to year, how much is a running back really worth?
01:29And also people asking, all right, great, well, who's he going to run behind?
01:34You just traded away your best offensive lineman.
01:38Everything is fair and accurate, but there's also a lot of reasons that an A is fair and
01:43accurate.
01:44And a lot of those grades really depend on what do the Texans do from here.
01:48Yes.
01:48Between now and the end of the draft, and maybe even a few days after the draft, when some
01:53teams realize, okay, we drafted a first-round offensive lineman, we've got this expendable
01:58veteran.
01:58So, I'd love to give it a hard cutoff date of the draft, but really, between now and
02:04training camp, what do the Texans do to actually give some support to not just T.J. Stroud,
02:10but also David Montgomery and Woody Marks?
02:12Yeah, this is a chain of events, and we're only on the second chain, only on the second
02:16link.
02:16You know what I mean?
02:17Yeah.
02:17Even yesterday, when you and I were talking about the Titus Howard trade, which came down
02:22right before 7 o'clock, literally as I was teasing what we were going to talk about
02:27at 7, is when the push notification came through from Ian Rapoport about the Texans trading
02:33Titus Howard to the Browns for a fifth-round pick, and then the Browns extending him for
02:37three more years at $63 million over three years, so $21 million a year.
02:43And so, that came down right before 7 o'clock, and our first gut reaction to that was, well,
02:52there's other moves coming that might be directly tied to this, to the point where
02:58I felt that the fact that they were getting a fifth-round pick could have meant that there
03:04was a David Montgomery trade coming, because the Lions had been very forthright about a
03:10fifth being the price tag to acquire David Montgomery.
03:14And even the first report from Adam Schefter was that it was a fifth-round pick, and then
03:18I saw Texans cap post yesterday that it was initially a fifth-round pick for David Montgomery,
03:24and somebody swooped in at the last minute, and that's why the Texans ended up having
03:28to give up a fourth, a seventh, and juice Scruggs.
03:31So, I think we're at step two of what is a plan that's on a whiteboard in the building
03:36over at NRG Stadium that has a bunch of steps to it.
03:40And I think, too, Seth, a bunch of moves that the Texans have a pretty good idea as to where
03:46they stand on them, whether it's free agency or how they've evaluated certain guys off of
03:50the combine last week.
03:51You know, and I think this, when it comes to the way Nick operates, we've seen in certain
03:56instances, including on renegotiations of current players on the team and when they draft players,
04:04Nick tries to get a feel for where everything is headed, where the market is headed, and
04:08get out in front of it so you can have some certainty and you can make decisions based on
04:13what you already know.
04:14So, if there's one thing we know about the running back market, it's volatile from year
04:19to year, and it does look like there's going to be a market for running backs this year
04:26that teams are interested in.
04:27It's not going to be like three years ago when running backs were just sitting out there
04:31forever, and the going rate's probably going to be $8 million plus per year for running
04:36backs.
04:37And I think Nick probably looked at this as an opportunity where they had multiple running
04:41backs identified, and he had no clue really how pricey the market could get.
04:48So, if he sees a guy he likes and has a conversation with Detroit, and we can lock that up
04:53now and
04:53then focus our attention on the offensive line or tight end or whatever else that they need
04:58to really get hemmed up before the draft, this puts them in a position to do that.
05:02And it was going to, so, you know, it's funny because it's a fourth, a late fourth, and a
05:10seventh round pick.
05:11So, let's call it a fourth round pick.
05:12You know, let's call it a mid or a high fourth round pick.
05:14Seventh is next year, we should point that out, 2027.
05:17Let's call it a fourth round pick, you know, give or take, depending on how everything shakes
05:21out.
05:22But it's still, to me, not an inordinately pricey trade for a guy that still has a lot
05:28of tread on his tires.
05:30And I think the perception was, because David Montgomery didn't get as much usage this year,
05:36that, oh, yep, boy, they must, he lost his luster in Detroit and they don't like him
05:40anymore, it's more that Jameer Gibbs is just, he's on a different level.
05:44He's a different caliber of player right now.
05:46They leaned into the hot hand in Jameer Gibbs and the guy that's going to be their future.
05:51And, but I still think, I still very much think that Montgomery has tread on his tires.
05:56And it's, it's always dicey with running backs because they get injured, they get old.
06:00But I'm, I'm cool with the value as long as they get an offensive line for him to run.
06:04Right, right, right.
06:05Yeah.
06:06He turns, David Montgomery, just for, just for, for, you know, just to set, you know,
06:10sort of the basis here, he turns 29 in June.
06:14So that is something, I mean, we shouldn't ignore because we brought it up last week.
06:18The 28 is sort of that age for running backs where things can start to fall off a little
06:24bit.
06:25His usage, the way they used him in Detroit makes me optimistic that to your point, there's
06:29still plenty of tread on the tire.
06:31He's going to be their lead back, period.
06:33Yeah.
06:33He's going to be their lead back.
06:34And so they're, so they're out of the Kenneth Walker market.
06:37There's not going to be a trade for Brees Hall.
06:39David Montgomery is the guy.
06:40I still think they might draft somebody with a, with a decent pick, but David Montgomery
06:45is the guy now he's what Joe Mixon was two years ago.
06:47And I guess, um, I don't, I don't know if I have to say there's a lead guy.
06:51I mean, he's your first and second down guy, first and foremost, if you look at Detroit
06:55over the last couple of years, and again, Jameer Gibbs is a, the ceiling on Jameer Gibbs is
07:00probably way higher than what it is for Woody Marks.
07:02I like Woody Marks, but if you look at the way Detroit used both of those guys before
07:07this year, you would look at, you could look at either of those guys stats and say, oh,
07:12he's the lead back.
07:13Their usage was pretty even and they were heavily used both in the run and pass game.
07:18So yeah, I think Montgomery is the guy you look to as your workhorse bell cow, but he
07:23hasn't been getting 20 carries a game consistently in his career.
07:28Which is good.
07:29Right, right.
07:30Texans.
07:30Yeah.
07:30Yeah.
07:31And I don't think, I don't think that he's going to be agitated if he's getting 15 or fewer
07:35carries per game.
07:37No, it's, you know, as long as they're still using him and cause they were, they were very
07:41effective Detroit, obviously for a long time doing that.
07:44So what do people think about these deals that Texans made yesterday?
07:47And if you want to weigh in on the base power text line, 713-572-4610 early here, feel
07:53free to, to do that.
07:55This was probably the harshest criticism I saw from anybody nationally about this, about
08:02the trades.
08:03This was Adam shine of serious XM yesterday saying Texan fans should be angry, should be
08:10pissed about the sequence of events yesterday.
08:14I think the Texans are completely out of their minds here.
08:18And this makes no sense.
08:20Like if I'm a fan of the Houston Texans, I'm wondering what the hell is going on.
08:24So they just traded in essence, Howard for Montgomery.
08:29They just traded their best offensive lineman for a backup running back.
08:34That's what Montgomery is.
08:36And you know, I like Montgomery.
08:38I don't love Montgomery.
08:39I have said that consistently.
08:41This is my take on Montgomery in Chicago, my take on Montgomery in Detroit, my take
08:44on Montgomery now.
08:46The Texans didn't need David Montgomery.
08:48They needed Kenneth Walker.
08:50They needed Travis Etienne.
08:52That's who they needed.
08:53So why would you take yourself out of that market perhaps?
08:58Are you now going to spend $12 billion a year on Kenneth Walker?
09:02We just got David Montgomery.
09:05I don't know what the hell they're doing.
09:06Boy, if I'm a Texans fan, I'm pissed here.
09:11Okay.
09:11This is where labels come into play here.
09:14This is where the label of Titus Howard, best offensive lineman on the Texans.
09:19Yeah.
09:20Yeah.
09:20Now it's a relative term.
09:23It's a relative term.
09:24And if you think about this offense and what this offense wants to be, they talked a lot
09:30about being a tough and physical offense.
09:33Downhill.
09:34Yes.
09:35Titus Howard is a better pass blocker than he is a run blocker.
09:38He is a big physical.
09:39He's a big guy.
09:40And I liked when he would go down to guard sometimes, not because he's an incredibly physical
09:44blocker, but just in having that mass on the inside, having an athletic player who has
09:49mass.
09:49There's value in that in the running game, and I think it did help at times.
09:54But he's not a masher.
09:56And I think in trying to create more of a swarm-like effect on the offense, they want
10:03mashers.
10:04And they want guys maybe that don't cost as much as $22 million per year that are better
10:11mashers and better in the run game than Titus Howard is.
10:16And that's a part of the overall methodology.
10:19It feels like, all right, there's a consistent theme here, at least.
10:24I think Cole Popovich knows what he's doing as an offensive line coach.
10:27But as I said all year long, man, you can talk about being smash mouth all day long and
10:32all you want, but you got to have the Jimmies and the Joes to execute the X's and O's.
10:39Yep.
10:40And they just didn't have that.
10:41So whatever price point it is, I think they want guys who are more blue-collar, lunch-pail.
10:48Like Trent Williams is a premier offensive tackle.
10:50He is a blue-collar, lunch-pail type of guy.
10:53Yes.
10:54If the Texans were going to pay $22-plus million per year, they want a guy like that who's
10:59not just a great pass protector, but who wants to punch you in the mouth.
11:03Literally.
11:03That's his go-to move.
11:05He gets away with a quick hand to shove to the face mask.
11:09That's one of the reasons J.J. cited for why he would never come back.
11:12He's like, I don't know if I feel like I get in Trent Williams' hand in my face 30 times
11:17a game.
11:17Yeah.
11:18It's interesting because I'm already seeing on the base power text line, Adam Schein's
11:24not wrong.
11:24We left ourselves in need of four starting offensive linemen again.
11:27The whole thing about trading Titus, and don't even mix in Juice Scruggs.
11:31They gave, I saw people yesterday, gave away two offensive linemen like Juice Scruggs was
11:35probably going to get cut.
11:36And so he was a throw into that deal.
11:39Juice Scruggs is not part of the conversations that we're having today, other than this is
11:43a, this seems to be a concession that that was a waste, that that was a bust.
11:48Yeah.
11:49Juice, you know, so that's, if we want to have that conversation that, that they drafted a
11:52guy in the second round a few years ago that they wound up being a throw in for a 29
11:56year
11:57old running back, I'm here to have that conversation.
11:58But as far as the notion on this text, that the Titus Howard trade was somehow bad because
12:03now you need four offensive linemen, let them fill the four offensive linemen first before
12:09you, that's not a reason, it's a reason you should be nervous.
12:11It's not a reason that the trade was bad.
12:13This is, okay, so this is, to text her, I'd say this, don't fall into that trap of somebody
12:19using the truth to paint an incomplete picture.
12:22Right.
12:22Using a truth to tell a lie.
12:24Right.
12:24I think that's what, I think that's what Jamie said about Cersei once.
12:27She's very good at using, or no, Tyrion said it in Game of Thrones.
12:30She's very good at using the truth to tell a lie.
12:33The big, the big part that Shine and everybody else is leaving out, and it's, it's fair to
12:40discuss this, but you can't leave it out.
12:43You have to see what the Texans do next with the offensive line.
12:46Right.
12:46If Shine's contention is that the Texans aren't going to make any more moves on the offensive
12:51line, then, and he believes that, then bring it up.
12:55Because that's what you're really saying.
12:57You're saying, oh, wait a second, you traded for, you traded for a running back, and then
13:02you're trading away an offensive lineman, and with the extreme level of criticism that
13:06he's levying on them, he's basically saying, without saying it, he doesn't expect the Texans
13:11to make any moves on the offensive line now.
13:13Right, right.
13:14So there's, and I don't know, I guess, I, I, I must have missed all of these people proclaiming
13:21how essential Titus Howard is going to be, like, in having an awesome offense that, I
13:28mean, for me, I've always felt like, I, I felt like he's an adequate offensive lineman.
13:33Yeah.
13:33He's a solid enough starting offensive lineman.
13:35Yeah.
13:36Um, but to act like he's irreplaceable or something, I just don't get that sentiment.
13:41It was, it was not a good offensive line last year.
13:43It was a better offensive line.
13:45Right.
13:45They were stabilized.
13:46They might've been about an average offensive line in some regards for the second half of
13:50the season, they still weren't a good run blockers.
13:52So that's just, it's what did the Texans do from here?
13:55Yes.
13:56And I would say the, um, the skeptics of the tightest deal, the things that I saw yesterday,
14:03and this is right after the trade was made.
14:05I mean, Seth and I were on the air and then for three more hours after this deal got done.
14:08So we went deep on this thing yesterday.
14:10I would say if I had a bullet point at Seth, the skeptics say, didn't get enough for him.
14:14Yeah.
14:15Fifth rate.
14:15You got a fifth round pick for a starting tackle.
14:17Oh my God, without pointing out that he was probably agitating for a contract behind
14:22the scenes.
14:23Um, what, what's the plan, you know, what is the plan on the offensive line?
14:28And again, that's not a reason to say the trade was bad.
14:30That's a reason to be nervous in the interim until they make more moves.
14:34Like you said, um, the other, uh, skeptics also saying, look, um, clearly, you know, they'll
14:41say, Hey, we know they're going to go get more offensive linemen.
14:44I'm not a dummy.
14:44They only get, they bear, they can't even feel the team right now on the offensive line
14:48after those two trades yesterday.
14:50If they had to play a game today, they would have the jankiest offensive line in the NFL
14:54with what's in the building right now.
14:56We just don't trust the Texans and Nick Casario to staff this position because they've, they've
15:04missed on, they've missed on so many high picks, right?
15:07You know, to wit juice Scruggs was a throw in yesterday to the David Montgomery trade.
15:12We don't, we don't trust the Texans is a very fair sentiment to, to actually do something
15:17about the offensive line, but the trade in and of itself, this is a, I guess this is the
15:21other part is it doesn't sound like a whole lot.
15:25Wow.
15:25You're, you're letting go of your best offensive lineman for a fifth round pick.
15:28Nick, this is what you need to realize is that Nick talks to everybody.
15:32I don't worry about Nick selling low.
15:35I worry about any GM, including Nick, sometimes buying high or spending too much on something
15:41that doesn't work out.
15:42But when it comes to selling low, this is what you need to know about it.
15:46Nick talks to a lot of people and I'm guessing there were multiple teams that said, oh, Titus
15:52Howard, huh?
15:53Um, oh yeah.
15:54What's he want?
15:55Oh, he wants $22 million a year.
15:57Well, well, no, I'm not going to trade a second or a third round pick for that.
16:03Are you kidding me?
16:04This is how you wind up in Cleveland.
16:06The, yeah, the, the, this, the trade compensation tells you what other teams actually think about
16:12Titus Howard.
16:12You can look at your PFF grades, your pass rush win rate, or your run block win rate,
16:18any of those stupid stats out there.
16:20The teams are telling you what they think of Titus Howard when the best they could get
16:24for a guy who wants $22 million a year is a fifth round pick.
16:28Yeah, absolutely.
16:30I, we said this yesterday, Nick Casario does his due diligence on all this stuff.
16:34If this was Bill O'Brien trading him for a fifth round pick, I would say it's because
16:39Bill O'Brien just doesn't want to spend time on the phone with general managers back in
16:43the day.
16:43You know, like some guy and wanted to get rid of him as fast as possible.
16:48This is like a, this is a very dialed back version of the Deandre Hopkins trade where
16:52Bill O'Brien said, Hey, uh, after the trade, he said, Hey, Deandre wanted a new contract
16:56and we didn't want to give him a new contract.
16:57So we moved on from him.
16:59I could see that being the scenario with Titus Howard.
17:02The difference is that it felt like Bill O'Brien and Jack Easterby didn't really vet this
17:08thing with all 31 other teams.
17:10They found somebody to give him a second round pick.
17:12They liked David.
17:13They liked David Johnson for some reason.
17:16You remember when the, when the, the story came out, when the chiefs had traded for Frank
17:20Clark and they gave up a pretty tidy sum, wasn't it?
17:23Second and a third.
17:24I second and a third.
17:25Yeah.
17:25And the story came out later that the chiefs didn't even realize that Jadeveon Clowney was
17:30available for trade.
17:31Right.
17:31You know, that was, and now that was when Brian, that was the year Brian gang got fired.
17:36I think, uh, if I, if I remember 2019.
17:39Yep.
17:39So there was all kinds of disjointedness in the way the Texans were operating.
17:44That's, that's not the way Nick, Nick is a professional general manager.
17:47He's not the combination of Bill O'Brien and Jack Easterby.
17:50Okay.
17:50In April, 2019, the child was wrong.
17:52The chiefs acquired defensive end, Frank Clark for a first, a second and a swap of third
17:57round.
17:57Yeah.
17:58Yeah.
17:58And I don't know that Clark was as highly thought of as Clowney back.
18:01I mean, Clowney was coming off of three pro bowls.
18:04Yeah.
18:04A lot of people forget when they assess that trade, that Clowney was really coming off of
18:09a solid stretch of play.
18:10He was still a young player.
18:11Yeah.
18:12All right.
18:12He's still around.
18:13Yeah.
18:14He's going to be somewhere on a one-year deal this year.
18:16For like 12 million bucks.
18:17He's showing up when I'm watching a Cowboys game.
18:19I'm like, is that, is that Clowney?
18:21It's Clowney, man.
18:22That's that big freak of nature.
18:23It's your Clowney, isn't it?
18:23It's your gun.
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